/lit/ - Literature

>>18446450
this thread paves the way to /lit/'s agrarian manifesto and back to the land movement

>>18446467
It begins

>>18446450
Jean-Martin Fortier's The Market Gardener is all you need, OP.

>>18446467
I know there's a general air of restiveness among many anons here. At the very least, the smallhold farmer life is something we should all consider.

>>18446479
>>18446483
thank you anons, we're off to a great start!

chart works as anti-urbanite as well

>>18446485
I was recently reading Christopher Lasch's Revolt of the Elites and in the introduction or the first chapter he mentions that one of the lessons of the last two centuries was that the small-holding, relatively equal, relatively independent farmer is the mainstay of all democratic and populist political formations. The active prevention of wealth inequality by the broadest possible distribution of wealth and citizenry, not in the sense of handouts but of giving them the possibility of supporting themselves, is the cornerstone of a strong nation.

I think that's what Darre wanted to do.

>>18446450
>Walt Wingfield has decided to live the life many a city-dweller dreams of - moving to the country and buying a farm. Quitting his job as a Toronto stockbroker, Walt buys a hundred-acre farm on the edge of the Canadian Shield and determines to make a living using only two old racehorses and a single-furrow plow. In a series of letters to the editor of the local newspaper, Walt chronicles his struggles, modest successes and spectacular failures. The final crisis comes in his third year on the land, when he must decide whether to give it all up and return to the world of finance that he knows best. In this Canadian classic, Dan Needles has brought to life a marvelously evocative rural community. Walt Wingfield's brave attempt to embrace a less complicated world constitutes the triumph of a clear-eyed spirit over human frailty and opens the door to a world lost to most.

>>18446570
Exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for! And he's a fellow Leaf to boot. Thanks anon!

>>18446570

>>18446576
Oops didn't mean to reply

>>18446531
The vast majority of people, perhaps 90% or more in most western countries, would be absolutely helpless without modern conveniences. It's a terrible state to be in.
>>18446576
DL'd, thanks :)

>>18446450
>. I want to put my savings towards a few acres of farmable land and a little house.

Actual farmer here. Don't do this. You want to apply for an FSA loan which can give you up to 1 million USD for land and capital equipment, with terms as long as 45 years, subsidized low interest rates, and delayed repayment period (first or second harvest start or later). Dont throw all your savings at this. If you fail, farm bankruptcy is generous and most of your savings would be insulated. If you fail on your own, it's all gone.

>>18446757
>Actual farmer here
That's cool man, how did you get into it? What kind of scale?
>loans
It looks like we have something like this too, though I'm unsure if the kind of small-scale farming I'm interested in doing would qualify.

>>18446773
It would and it's worth it. Look up FSA loan requirements. I'll write a big post later this week hopefully. Also the more capital you have, the more acrage and intensity you'll be able to farm.

>>18446791
Not OP but what if you are only interested in farming for self-sufficiency and maybe a small - I mean small - amount of profit on 10 or fewer acres?

>>18446791
Absolutely going to look into this. I didn't realize farming was THAT subsidized. Anything in the $100,000 range would be more than enough to get the kind of acreage I'm looking at. I'm looking forward to your post.
>>18446805
OP here, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Small scale, organic, low profits.

>>18446805
>>18446813
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-programs/

Contact the FSA. There are local offices that can assist.

>>18446832
I'm Canadian

>>18446839
Marry an American woman to get citizenship. Worth it for the benefits you'll receive. You can recieve up to $600k with no money down with super long repayment terms. More than enough to buy 100 acres and equipment.

>>18446852
Lol maybe not a terrible idea, but I really don't need or want that much land. I'm thinking like 10 acres MAX.

>>18446450
Read anything on permaculture.
This is my dream as well.

>>18446866
You're better off applying for social security disability if you're in the US and just spending your money on land. Problem with 10 acres is if you have a bad harvest you'll face a perpetual hurdle trying to recoup from it financially. I know a guy in TN who collects $2000 from SSDI and $3000 from VA benefits who just farms on 15 acres for himself. Easy to do the small scale stuff if you have a constant payment coming in.

>>18446892
I currently work online about 15-20 hours per week making ~USD$18/hour, maybe that would be enough to tide me over??

Anyone know if it's worth taking courses at a community college to learn how to do for-profit gardening/small scale farming? I really like the idea of it but I have no clue how to go about starting.

>>18446450
an old farmer joke:
>how do you make $1 million farming?
>start with $2 million

>>18446953
Why not just start by starting?

OP if i were you i'd try to find an organic operation like what you're imagining and actually work for it for a few months to see if you even like the life first

>>18447147
Not bad. Few decades it turns into a few million. Good ROI.

>>18447250
is that why 12,000 farms shut down between 2017 and 2018?

>>18446757
>You want to apply for an FSA loan which can give you up to 1 million USD for land and capital equipment,

The exact opposite of what OP is going for but still pretty useful knowledge.

>>18447275
They got Monsanto'd probably. Buy our (((seed))) or go bankrupt. Many such cases.

>>18446450
I'm not saying you should stay in the corporate life if it makes you miserable, but you are probably idealizing the "simple rural life" from a sheltered point of view. Being a small farmer is almost impossible. Famers kill themselves at a rate almost 4x the general population. You're honestly better of backpacking around Europe eating out of garbage cans

>>18447275
They shut down and restructure. There is a near endless supply off emergency loans. The people who fail are those who refuse to use these programs.

>>18446450
The Grapes of Wrath is that quintessential story about farmers in the 20th century. Very good book. Enjoy! :)

>>18447367
I always imagined farming like going all in on a random stock, and instead of placing an order electronically you instead just do hundreds of hours of manual labour.

>>18447291
do you want to actually farm or do you just want to retire and dick around on 10 acres with a couple of chickens and the fruit trees you like to eat? I know what I'd rather.

>>18446832
good info

>>18446953
go to the veg markets for your city, not the 'farmers' markets, the wholesale or growers markets. Ask around there.

>>18447159
>no land
>no money
>no idea what "starting" would even entail
I'm just going to spend the next few months researching

>>18447512
Start with the FSA.

>>18447174
This is a good idea, or maybe a community garden or something.
>>18447367
Could be, but I am wholly dissatisfied with my life's trajectory and need to make a change. I always loved camping and rummaging around in the garden, so this looks to be the radical change I need to make. The idea of growing or raising a large portion of my own food is highly appealing to me also. Realistically as long as I avoid outright destitution and have time to relax and read, I can't see how it would be worse than what I'm currently doing. Worst case scenario I end up hating it just as much as my old, in which case I'll just try something new or jump in a furnace. Worth the try.

>>18447532
get a job as a farmhand first and really work and if you still want a farm then go for it

>>18447550
Another great idea. I'm working on some kind of timeline, and this is a part of it. Earn a bit of money and learn some basics.

Look up that Dutch guy who got arrested for living off the grid with his family and farming

>>18447554
1. Non related experience (eg, managerial)
2. Non related education (eg, BS)
3. Related education (a few courses)
4. Related work (a few months on a farm)

Have most of these and you can get $300k to 600k with no downpayment.

>>18447561
Many such cases. Fortunately I'm in NA, where there's LOTS of vacant land in unorganized townships.
>>18447575
$300,000 would be waaay more than enough for land, housing, necessary structures, initial infrastructure, startup, security net, etc. I have all of what you listed, so it will be worth looking into the Canadian equivalent of the FSA. Don't love the idea of taking on debt to start this plan, especially because I'd want something small-scale and (probably) not all that profitable, but it might be a necessary evil.

>>18446450
This is a chart of novels about farming families which I made with the suggestions of other anons.

>>18447701
Amazing, thank you.

>>18447367
Rural America is extremely depressing. My father's family live about 15 minutes out of [minor east coast city] and about 5 minutes out of the suburbs as such. Almost all of the family farm was sold off in the mid-20th century because everyone was going to work at the [Fortune 500 company] plant. It's a common refrain. All of the land out there is either being sold to developers to build commuter colonies, or being leased to the highest bidder to grow GMO onions. It's terrible. No one can make a go of it anymore. Some relatives down the road had a farm that operated until less than a decade ago, but all the land has been sold now. Can't even tell what the idiot who bought it is doing.
My dad's cousin, after a career at said company, has amassed a good amount of money and bought back most of our old land. He's childless and retirement age, so I'm not sure what he plans to do with it besides keep it out of developers' hands. I've thought about trying to start back farming over and over again, but the situation is bleak. Unless you want to grow subsidized cash crops on an industrial scale, you might as well shoot yourself.

>>18447938
massively depressing

>>18446450
>When Technology Fails (Matthew Stein)
>The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency (J. Seymour)
>The Organic Gardener (Christine and Michael Lavelle)
> A Handbook of Traditional Living Vol 1 and 2 (Raido)
>EVERYTHING by Mollison
Actually if you get nothing else, Mollison books.
>Permaculture One (B. Mollison)
>Permaculture Two (B. Mollison)
>Permaculture – A Designer's Manuall (B. Mollison)
>Introduction to Permaculture (B. Mollison)
>The Permaculture Book of Ferment and Human Nutrition (B. Mollison)
This is some quality stuff. Make sure to learn a little about chemistry and plant biology. It can go a long way. A college textbook would be more than enough, just make sure you have your gaps filled. Oh and pick up a little mathematics. Nothing insane, just up to single variable - maybe multivariable - calculus. I doubt you'd have to really worry about high level shit, but if you're looking to be self sufficient, you may as well learn how to apply certain formulas for your soil and such.
Oh and one final thing, look into business organization skills. Just minor stuff can really make a difference. Then for some other light reading, check out Organization Man (William H. Whyte) this might help you avoid certain business pitfalls.... Maybe.
>>18446479
Darre is high quality. Quoted for further visibility.

>>18448553
Great post. Thank you.

>>18447938
people have been living on agriculture alone since the neolithic what makes you think it is depressing? anything is depressing if you revolve around money. which is more depressing, living on a farm or in an apartment?

>>18446450
Foxfire series.
You're going to make it.

>>18448625
>live in apartment
>don't know neighbours
>surrounded by concrete 24/7
>loud city
>crime
>reliant on other people for everything
>"YA BUT THERE'S THIS COOL BAR WHERE THERE ARE VIDEO GAMES AND-"

OP said he was tired of corporate wageslaving. to say agrarian life is 'depressing' or not profitable is to be a corporate wageslaver, YOU ARE PART OF THE SYSTEM OP IS TIRED OF. what nonsense. what is depressing is to see things according to profitability

This thread is making me realize there is no escape.

>>18448732
We have to regress further. Back to before farming, before Uncle Ted's cabin, before fire.

>>18448681
Realistically, assuming you owned all your shit and produced a significant chunk of your own food, you could easily live on less than $1000/month. Especially if you had a solar/hydro power system. What would your bills even be?
>internet (think starlink): $100
>Food you don't produce: $200
>Car expenses: $200
>phone bill: ~$40
>other supplies: $100
>animal feed: $200
Probably missing stuff, but it can't be that hard to live on like $15,000 per year.

>>18448868
water filtration is one of the most important things

>>18448900
True. This can be an issue depending on where you live.

Is this the Stardew Valley effect? I hope people don't think they're going to be instant multi millionaires living the easy life because they took up farming

>>18446757
>You want to apply for an FSA loan which can give you up to 1 million USD for land and capital equipment, with terms as long as 45 years,
cringe you are basically a share cropper at this point

>>18446450
The Contrary Farmer by Gene Logsdon (pbuh)
Trust me OP, this is the book you’re looking for. Old man gene was so based.
>>18448732
Spineless

>>18446757
Kick yourself
This is bait OP

>>18448950
>Stardew Valley effect?
I actually tried it out but didn't love it.
>instant multi millionaires
no I explicitly said that I was okay to live a basic, low income existence. If I could pull in $30-40 thousand leafbucks from the "farm" and other income sources I'd be happy.

>>18448868
SSI pays $750 a month.
SNAP pays $250 a month.

More than enough.

>>18446450
You can't make money farming.

I’ve collected a few titles

>>18449338
>farmer's market
>supplying grocery stores and restaurants

>>18449338
Are you from Monsanto or DuPont?

>>18449035
making any profit at all is difficult for a farmer. There's a reason that farms get engulfed into giant agricultural companies.

>>18449339
>>18449341
>>18449343
>butterfly makes a good post
Amazing. Thanks, Flyfly.

>>18448950
what planet are you living on

>>18448625
You misunderstand. It's depressing because it's being destroyed.

>>18448950
This is your brain on video games

>>18447392
"get big or get out", that's been the department ag's policy since the 70's

>>18447938
even the farmers who grow subsidized cash crops shoot themselves at alarming frequency

>>18448868
you still have to pay taxes and you're not even figuring in the cost of seed and animals

>>18449514
Tax rate in Canada is pretty low if you're making that little money. Doesn't get bad until you're making $50,000+.

>>18449543
2020 Federal Tax Bracket Rates for Canada
> 15% up to $48,535 of taxable income
> 20.5% between $48,535 and $97,069
> 26% between $97,069 and $150,473
> 29% between $150,473 and $214,368
> 33% on any amount exceeding $214,368

>>18448973
Bankruptcy exists if you want to walk away. 1.5% interest is lower than the rate of inflation by the way, so no.

>>18449341
>>18449343
>>18449339
>the virgin pissing around in your back yard vs the Chad FSA funding exploiter.
>>18446757

>>18449543
anon is talking about living on $15k a year presumably less the cost of the farm itself, so that's assuming he has all the cash in hand ready to buy it because no bank in the world is going to give a loan to a subsistence farmer

>>18446450

>>18446450
I recommend you "To the Left of the Father" (Lavoura Arcaica). A great AND SHORT book with a structure which reminds me The Iliad from a brazillian writer turned famer. I think you're gonna enjoy the rural setting and its greek lyrism.

>>18447367
>You're honestly better of backpacking around Europe eating out of garbage cans
I was thinking about it today. I'm going to live in a small tent, really simple taking only with me what I can carry in my backpack (a waterfilter, canteen, swiss knife, solar panel and a few books).
Go to the woods and take a job as a naval carpenter's apprentice, in a coastal city.

The thing is: I don't know if they will give me the gig.

>>18450118
if you are getting a solar panel you should get an ereader as well

>>18447635
Is it? How many acres would you buy? What kind of operation would you be running? You seriously underestimate how much farm equipment loves to break.

I can only suggest you farming textbooks from Australia published by the department of primary industries specifically for commercial farmers, they are extremely informative.

Picrel there is an entire series of textbooks called "agguide" covering every subject you could imagine I'm a beekeeper and viticulturist I work on a large farm we also have thousands of livestock but I'm the bee and vine guy. I had to study these to get my biosecurity cert, chemical spray cert, tractor cert and more like chainsaw, pollination, slaughter and dress, queen rearing, genetics (both bees and grapes) bio contamination and etc etc.

These books are very good.

>>18450199
>You seriously underestimate how much farm equipment loves to break.
That's why you maintain your equipment anon. A new John Deer tractor isn't going to break down either are our brand new trucks, forklifts, loaders and etc.

I'm this anon I work with machinery both big and small.>>18450243

>>18448553
>Oh and pick up a little mathematics. Nothing insane, just up to single variable - maybe multivariable - calculus.
What for? Legit curious about a way of finally putting into practice this kind of subject and IN A FARM of all the places.

>>18450142
>if you are getting a solar panel you should get an ereader as well
That's what my cellphone is for. I can listen to music on it, acess 4chan and talk to some people while in the nearby city. Also it can work as a GPS I suppose.
Plus, I read more books on paper since is comfier.
The cellphone will be my microcomputer.

I'd rather just live in a random ass cabin like forestanon than going through the trouble of buying land and farming

>>18446450
I think you meant "Brothers Karamazov" but anyway, its message wasn't relevant to an agrarian lifestyle. You should read Tolstoy instead, namely "Anna Karenina". I didn't finish it because found it kinda boring but one of themes is City versus Countryside.
For more practical books, maybe consider DK books. They have a few basic ones on gardening at least, not sure about animal husbandry.

>>18448642
The best situation is usually a medium-sized city surrounded by little towns and agricultural fields. You find plenty of these in UK and France. If you are bored of the countryside, you can go to city for an afternoon and come back to your rural house.

Just practice horticulture within your urban environment.

>>18449978
I skimmed through the film and it seems like tryhard Freudian crap. I think the brother was jerking off or castrating himself in front of his sister. Stupid garbage.

>>18446450
Have you even picked strawberries for a day?

farmer here, my 2 cents: find someone who actually has a farmer and work for him for a while to see if you actually like it. Also be in touch with local farmers association (we have those in Italy).
as books I know a bunch of cool books about winemaking (don't know if you are interested): look for Ribereau-Gayon and Peynaud books.
In Canada you could make some cool icewine.
>>18447147
this is very true, a lot of folks get into agriculture thinking they will make them rich and that's just bullshit.
>>18449339
>butterfly into agriculture
well that's a shock

>>18451170
>I skimmed through the film and it seems like tryhard Freudian crap.
I told you to READ the BOOK, not to see the movie (that I haven't seen btw so I can't tell). This is lit/ NOT tv/, bro.
>I think the brother was jerking off or castrating himself in front of his sister. Stupid garbage.
I don't think there's such a passage in the book.
What's the dificult in reading a few pages of the actual work?
It's only like 50 pages in lenght.
And I suppose the author is one of the greatest brazilian living writers.
He could have flooded the market after his initial sucess but instead he chose retiring and becoming a farmer, writing little and condensing a lot.
He echoes Hesiod and Homer with some persian influences.
Here is a guy that definitely STARTED WITH THE GREEKS!
He's totally worth it.

>>18446450
The Lost Ways
https://www.lost-ways.net/

>>18450804
Its obvious OP didn't accidentally force a meaningfully humorous portmanteau of farm and Karamazov to imply zealous acclaim.

I would recommend this fellow, he does a good job of capturing olde England.

>>18450243
Australia is 90% arid, being infertile desert they failed to cultivate. Taking farming advice from them is like taking it from Sarahan African nations.

>>18451767
Agriculture's place in Australia
Australian agriculture accounts for: 55% of Australian land use

>watch Clarkson's Farm
>entire profit for the year is $144
made my laugh my head off

>>18451481
I might try it. I know the author is pretty based by giving up writing to start farming, and I think he then gave up his farm to students/university.

>>18449755
Yes this is the plan. I should have around $200,000 in the bank over the next few years, which should realistically be enough to buy everything outright (2-5 acres, ~700sqft house, water/power shit, basic tools, basic farm setup, chicken coop). From there I could work some easy low hours job to supplement meagre farm earnings and whatever is left of my initial savings.
>>18450199
See above and what I'm saying by a "small farm" can be thought of as a large vegetable garden + a chicken coop.

>>18450804
>I think you meant "Brothers Karamazov"
>this is a real person

>>18450426
Things like soil analysis, dealing with weather models and climate models, chemical analysis of fertilizer, etc. etc.
I wouldn't say it is 100% required, right? Plant seed, grow seed, harvest product, sell product. But "min-maxing" is pretty important for farming.

>>18452754
So what is the consensus on farmer education? Worth spending some money on a few college classes to learn what the fuck I'm doing?

>>18452783
Honestly, agg in high school would be enough. You can do the college thing, but frankly, you might be better off going and working for a guy who runs a farm. Ask him for advice/mentorship/etc. Pay him back by helping him. You get networking, experience, and a lot of information that you won't get with books and teachers who have never touched soil before.
I'm not going to bash college, theoreticals can be important, but find out if you like it first and try to actually grow plants in your backyard while you are at it.

>>18446450
>After years in the busy corporate world


>Green Acres is the place to be.
>Farm livin' is the life for me.
>Land spreadin' out so far and wide
>Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside.

>New York is where I'd rather stay.
>I get allergic smelling hay.
>I just adore a penthouse view.
>Dah-ling I love you but give me Park Avenue.

>...The chores.
>...The stores.
>...Fresh air.
>...Times Square

>You are my wife.
>Good bye, city life.
>Green Acres we are there.

>>18447550
This.
>>18450778
Also this. It's funny how much of this board hates forest anon but then threads like this pop up.

>>18453401
What? I fucking love Forest Anon. Whenever someone ribs him over something stupid, I always see anons stepping in to defend him. Where did you get the idea that people hate him?

>>18446450
The New Organic Grower by Coleman is an excellent resource for small scale sustainable farming. I have 3 acres and use many of his techniques and they work. It's all about nurturing the soil like a living organism which it is. He outlines a plan where you can make a comfortable living as a market gardner on @ 5 acres. But don't think for a miment you won't be busting your ass far harder than any job you can name. Even my organic garden for my wife and I takes a lot of work. Chickens are great for manure btw.

>>18454763
Thanks! Post pics of garden?
>He outlines a plan where you can make a comfortable living as a market gardener on @ 5 acres
What do you mean by "comfortable living"?

I'd love to do this sort of thing or take advantage of generous loans in the UK, but we're a tiny country where a few rich families own 99% of the land so I'm pretty sure it'd be impossible. Sad!

>>18455015
Emigrate.

>>18452783
ag college is for getting a job with cargill et al where you're less of a farmer and more of a middle manager. computer models to adjust feed for specific cows to maximize milk production, that sort of thing. it's essentially identical to a corporate desk job except you get to order around illegals too

>>18455105
Yea fuck that lol. I despise industrial farming and want as little to do with it as possible.

>>18452345
that's a terrible idea, op. if the farm fails you lose everything. use some for a downpayment, get a loan, and put the rest in safe investments

>>18455022
I wish I could bro, I wish I could. The only chance I 'd have of going somewhere better like America would be if I were an experienced software engineer or something, which would sort of defeat the purpose. And due to Brexit, the EU is out too. I'm stuck here.

>>18455108
that said if you search around there are definitely ag extensions that do really interesting work with restoration agriculture. i once visited a MSU experimental farm that was working with planting native wildflowers among rows of cherry trees to attract pollinators, testing to see what combinations were best

>>18455112
I'm just gonna do a career pivot and hobby farm as much as I can. Having my own (sustainable) organic farm is just a childish dream.
>>18455124
Maybe try going to the north? Somewhere cozy and rural? Would probably be cheaper than where you are too.

>>18455134
it's not childish but don't bet the farm on it (haha). diversify your investments. if the farm takes off, you're golden, if it doesn't you've still got a plan b

>>18454837
Support a small family. But if I remember correctly I think he's assuming very limited debt. I've posted stuff on /ck/ and the garden threads in /diy/ and /out/ but /lit/ probably isn't the place for that.

>>18446450
Read Early Retirement Extreme. It won't teach you to farm, but it could give you valuable information about how to live frugally and decouple your lifestyle from wage slavery.

>>18455631
This book had very little to do with retirement, but I can sum it up for you in just a few sentences or steps and you won't even have to read it:
1. Work for a while.
2. Learn how to be frugal and then learn how to be cheap--really, really cheap; e.g., put your clothes into a bucket with some soap and water and drive down a bumpy road (no kidding--that's one of his tips).
3. Self-publish a book and call it "Early Retirement Extreme" even though it has no blueprint for retiring early.
Here's a condensed version:
"Buy the best and cry once or buy cheap and cry forever."

>>18456654
note: I am just quoting a review. Ironically, there does appear to be some half-decent tips in here. I'm fond of the idea of living a "holistic lifestyle".

>>18451608
It was a shitty portmanteau and not obvious at all. How was I supposed to know?

>>18447532
your pic looks like a typical Russian "dacha"

>>18447701
Wonderful

>>18457421
Is this post a bot? I'm thinking it saw the image name "dacha".

>>18457421
It is. I fetishize the Eastern Yuro big garden big tiddy babushka life.

>>18455631
The problem with shit like this is you are still going to have to wageslave for quite a while to be able to do it all the way living like a miserable miser

>>18453401
>>18453700
>instead of endlessly tedposting or posting fantasy threads like this actually just fucks off innawoods
>gets investigated by the fbi, fucks the qt agent in his cabin
>actually reads
>humble and always looking out for his /lit/bros posting sincere stuff to help other anons out
>despite admitting that he went through some shit and is ultimately why he escaped innawoods is still life affirming
Yeah i'm thinking forestanon is based