/lit/ - Literature

>>18428965
Please expand.

Fuck man, I wish Christianity would somehow evolve to shed the shit aspects of it.

Someone needs to pull a Mormonism-style revolt and reorganize the Vatican into essentially a new sub-religion of Christianity under the guise of "refreshing" it to new standards.

Trim the fat and the decadence and reinvigorate the spirituality within humankind.

>>18428965
I'm not interested enough in Christianity to read this, but will highly recommend Jodorowsky's (yes, the famous film director) book on the Tarot.

>>18429005
Tradcucks will neglect the hermetic and occultist tradition in Christianity while sucking the balls of the post-VCII Church. And, to be honest, Christianity can't be rescued from its march towards suicide.

>>18429005
a Christian sect that accepts Terry as a prophet and his ramblings as being truly divinely inspired would be based

>>18428965
i thought the bible denounces divination and such things like tarot?

>>18428965

Thanks for an interesting rec, Op.

>>18428965
Agreed. It's a book I have to put down occasionally because it is so divinely profound, i also like how he addresses the reader as "dear unknown friend".
Be careful when reading it, you may overdose on too many truths.

>>18429005
The denial of evolution is the most ridiculous part. Anyone who understands the basics of genetics knows that a species change over time is inevitable. Yet Christards expose their stupidity and blindness by insisting that there's still some question about how it works. We'll have genetically engineered pet raptors and they'll still deny the science of genetics, and probably the existence of dinosaurs too, the retarded cucks.

>>18428965
>The author is known, but has requested to remain anonymous. It is included in the bibliography of books ascribed to Valentin Tomberg.

>The Afterword states that "The author wished to remain anonymous in order to allow the work to speak for itself, to avoid the interposition of any kind of personal element between the work and the reader--reasons that we respect."[1]

>>18429485

>>18429485
>>>18429005
>The denial of evolution is the most ridiculous part. Anyone who understands the basics of genetics knows that a species change over time is inevitable. Yet Christards expose their stupidity and blindness by insisting that there's still some question about how it works. We'll have genetically engineered pet raptors and they'll still deny the science of genetics, and probably the existence of dinosaurs too, the retarded cucks.
I've never really understood why god is somehow not reconcilable with evolution. Anyone who understands evolution and how life came about can look at a structure like the human eye and see how unlikely it is that it would ever come to exist. So many things had to go right for humans to "evolve" that imo it almost begs the question of responsibility which can just as easily be placed on God as anything else.

>>18429561
This is what is most commonly accepted now in the Church

>>18429433
What types of truths are we talking about here?

Is it heretical bullshit? I think Hans urs von Balthasar gave it as a gift to Pope John Paul II, and Balthasar is not known for liking heretical mysticism. It must be good.

>>18429561
"Begs the question" is of the most well known fallacies. And about the human eye, obviously it's an extremely complex structure, but over billions of iterations of variation, mutation, and selection, you end up with extreme complexity. If you think you've made a good argument against evolution, then you don't have even a basic understanding of how it's supposed to work. Go read a "for kids" explanation, you retard.

>>18429561 #
"Begs the question" is a fallacy. And about the human eye, obviously it's an extremely complex structure, but over billions of iterations of variation, mutation, and selection, you end up with extreme complexity. If you think you've made a good argument against evolution, then you don't have even a basic understanding of how it's supposed to work. Go read a "for kids" explanation.

>>18429703
Why'd you change your response

>>18429639
>I think Hans urs von Balthasar gave it as a gift to Pope John Paul II
That's true.

>>18429713
Because I like this one better

>>18429735
Fine

>>18429561
>Muh Eye is conplex
>must mean magic sky man made it!
Read 'The Blind Watchmaker' to understand how evolution works, and why natural selection is indeed the only way it could work.

>>18429175
The Way of Tarot by Jodorowsky, I'd call it the standard work on the Tarot De Marseilles. Insightful and useful book

>>18429789
>magic sky man
Read a real book.

>>18429797
A book that argues that the human eye cannot have been created by natural selection is by definition written by a brainlet that doesn't understand how natural selection works. No matter how hard you double down on this inane opinion, you will Never be able to convince someone of above subnormal intelligence who has acquainted himself with the topic.

>>18429005
Read Evola

>>18429433
I would like to know more about this anon

>>18429930
Reddit

>>18430046
ooh got him good, my epic tradcath zoomer friend.

>>18429485
Evolution is the biggest lie.

Finaly, a thread on this. I was transfixed by this when I read it, and finished it over the course of a month or so. It will soon be time to read it again
>>18429220
It is a thoroughly Christian analysis and explanation of the symbollism behing the oldest form of the Tarot. It is incredible
>>18429639
>>18430003
The best way I can sum this book up is that it is one of the most important works to Christian Hermeticism since the 1300s at least. If there were ever a unified text on the matter, this is it.
Such things as the passing of divine revelation down from meditation to inscription, to practice, to integration, Hermes as the Hermit, and thus the figure of twilight between the day and night of religious/occult study, it is rife with incredible bits of knowledge, and Tomberg was blessed.

>>18430046
lol. Why not just type: "I am a broken buck?"

>>18428965
>this book is good
In what way?

>>18429175
>>18429220
The book is less about tarot and it's use in divination and more on the hermetic and esoteric application of Christianity. All the author does with the tarot is use its symbolic imagery as a springboard for discussion.

>>18429639
Tarot was not originally about fortune-telling or anything occultic. It was a trick-taking strategy game, and it's still commonly played in France and Canada, see "French Tarot".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Tarot

It's been sitting on my shelf, I think I will marathon it now.

I remember that passage he wrote critiquing Guenon and it was very good.

is the card game fun?

>>18429485
We don't deny it though so I dont know what you're on about.

>>18429005
And murder the childfuckers while they're at it.

Sounds interesting, do you need a decent understanding of christianity and the tarot beforehand or can you just pick it up?

>>18431710
It seems like a relatively fun way to pass the time. I looked up the traditional rules and it's basically a war-style card game. Trumps/pips with a number higher than the last one put down beats the other cards and so forth. If I had friends it looks like it would be pretty based to play

>>18428965
It's great.

If you like that take I suggest looking into Eckhart, Boehme, Fichte, Hegel, and German pietism in general.

It's a higher level of knowing in Christianity, a level above the strictly literal and allegorical readings. I've found it extremely enlightening.

>>18430080
Cool.
I'll see if I can pick it up

>>18430213
It does help with how to use the tarot as a spiritual guide

reading some of these replies typed out with such confidence from completely ignorant people reinforces my feeling that atheists should be either completely ignored or treated with upmost disdain and vitriol. they are no better than animals. an atheist talking about religion is like a rabid, stupid animal.

>>18429485
The story of Adam and Eve is metaphorical

>>18429930
He’s talking about how you misinterpret the whole idea of God as a ‘magic sky man’

>>18429703
>>18429930
Disclaimer: I accept the theory of evolution

I think you might have missed the point earlier. I don't think the poster was saying that evolution can't explain the eye. He was saying he didn't see how belief in God and his creation is incompatible with acceptance of evolution. And he is not alone in this--Church authorities, including all recent popes, have agreed that the theory of evolution does not contradict the belief that God created the universe.

>>18431988
You can just easily just pick it up without knowing much

>>18432505
They're the ultimate midwits and Pseudo Intellectuals.
And on some level, I think they know this, and try and mask it with these little outbursts.

>>18431988
Be ready to refer to the Stanford encyclopedia, wikipedia, etc in order to understand references to various philosophers and theologians (if your background in those isn't strong). Otherwise a challenging but manageable read. >>18432022

>>18429005
>>18429189
>I wish God's religion conformed to ME and MY ideas and desires
t. gay pride mindset

>>18431710
>>18432022

As a French it's my preferred card game. Very complex in rules and strategies, cards you need to save or hunt, alliance based, etc.
I always played it with my grandpas during family gatherings. It's better with 4-5 people usually.

>>18432783
Neat. I assume you have the Marseilles deck?

>>18432031
From what I've read of the book, it seems he's not at all like Eckhart. Tomberg says Christianity is unique because it's the religion that preservers personality. Eckhart goes against that and approaches Buddhism.

>>18431988
I don't think you need to know anything about Tarot, but you should be comfortable with the general history of Christian theology.

>>18432505
I can not fathom how someone can look at the Earth's relationship with the Sun, passage of day to night and the seasons, the formations of the seas, the lands, of plants and animals, and the complexity, fine tuning and order of nature; all of which stand before us as the most obvious and self-evident proof of a transcendent intelligent creator, and still say there is no God and all of this happened by mere chance. It's no wonder why atheists are the most hated by freemasons.

>>18432505
the older you get the more it becomes like walking in public and tuning out 90% of the voices around you so that you can continue to think and respond. They're beyond any need for an emotional response from you. It would be vulgar to grant them that

>>18429485
You are so unbelievably retarded holy shit. You don't know anything about Catholicism.

>>18431988
At the very least I would read the Corpus Hermeticum if you haven't already (it's very short). A few of the topics he covers a lot aren't referenced much anymore, so you'll save yourself some grasping if you find good summaries on Teilhard de Chardin and the various religious syncretism movements of the late 19th century (Theosophy, Anthroposophy, etc.). The book is good in that it references a lot while explaining it succinctly, but if you have a general understanding of philosophic and religious movements you'll save yourself a lot of cross-referencing.

>>18429561
> why god is somehow not reconcilable with evolution.

It is, but 15yo atheists on reddit don't realize that they are buying into muh dogma more so than religious fags.

>>18430970
>passage he wrote critiquing Guenon and it was very good.
source?

>>18432031
I have recently wondered if the higher up you get in Catholicism, the more accepted this esoteric stuff is. The vatican is full of this type of symbolism.

>>18432783
Oh shit. Really? I didn't realize there were more complex games associated, but I had only done a shallow dive into how the main game associated with it are played, not any other variants or how others do it. What are the rules? Do you have any resources?

>>18430065
Seethe. Read a book that isn't genre fiction.

>>18433443
>he doesn’t know that the pope secretly practices theurgical magick

>>18429220
Tarot's use for divination is sham and retarded. However, THE SYMBOLS in the tarot cards hold transcendental ancient truths.

If anybody's read Alan Moore's Promethea I'd be interested in a book that expands on his tarot chapter. Not about it's use for divination but explaining the esoteric roots of the signs within the hermetic tradition; the kabbalah and kundalini bits were interesting too. pls no ecclesiastical tomes

>>18433435
Meditations on the Tarot.

>>18429005
>Wanting another Thirty Year War

Cuck

>>18433561

>This does not mean to say that the Hermeticist is incapable of abstraction and that he necessarily neglects laws and principles. He is a human being and therefore also possesses the metaphysical sense. In possessing it he makes use of it like everyone, but what makes him a Hermeticist — in the sense of the Emperor of the Tarot— is the Hermetic-philosophical sense. He is as much a Hermeticist as he is endowed with the Hermetic-philosophical sense and makes use of it, whilst the metaphysical sense alone would never make a Hermeticist, in the proper sense of the word.
>Is this not the tragedy of Rene Guenon who, being gifted with a developed metaphysical sense and yet lacking the Hermetic philosophical sense, sought, always and everywhere, the concrete spiritual. And finally, tired of the world of abstractions, he hoped to find liberation from intellectualism by plunging himself into the element of fervour of the Moslem masses at prayer in a Cairo mosque. The last hope of a soul thirsty for mystical experience and languishing in the captivity of the intellect?

What is the exact tragedy being talked about? It's not clear but I'm curious. Accusing Rene Guenon of seeking the "concrete spiritual" is ironic given that Guenon in his writings dismisses the habits of westerners to try to reduce spiritual teachings to materialist ways of thinking

Is this being opposed to an ostensibly better, "non-concrete" spirituality?

Also, why does the author take it upon himself to assume that Rene Guenon was bound by his intellectualism (liberation from intellectualism)? Being an intellectual and having a deep and penetrating understand of things is hardly a prison that one needs to be liberated from.

Is his argument against Guenon that Guenon didn't "make use" of his insight by applying it to the world? Is not that taking a cheap attitude to spirituality that seeks to reduce it to its impacts upon the observable world?

>>18433718
You really are retarded, aren't you? You expect to be spoonfed until you get the answer you're looking for which is "Guenon is based and retroactively refuted X, Y, Z."

>>18433553
the rest can be found here
https://www.zipcomic.com/promethea-issue-12

>>18433733
>You really are retarded, aren't you?
Who said anything about me? I'm just asking for explanations of what he wrote

>>18433718
He became a Muslim. The author does not much like that.

>>18428965
You fool dont let the normies know about this, they will not be able to handle it!

seems like this tarot stuff is seeing a revival among millenials and zoomers. thought it was old lady central, so what gives?

>>18434096
Dunno. I'm here for info of it on the Church

>>18429005
read WILLIAM BLAKE
>>18429936
don't do this

>>18434168
Read Evola and Blake

>>18434096

The Tarot has been a central element of western popular culture for well over 300 years. It basically the crux of western hermeticism and evolved along side it. There is no way someone does not come across its more nuanced occult meanings.

>>18429005
>>18434186
>>18434168


William Blake basically made Abrahamic mythology infinitely more intresting , which goes on to show you that the occult artist is far superior to the cleric professing religious dogma or the theologian.

>>18434239
Question; Did he expand upon the mythology or did he write his own off shoot spin like The Divine Comedy?

>>18429485
Do Americans really?

>>18434284
Yes

>>18434278

Its really complex, he had his own artistic vision on how christinity should be presented aesthetically but there are definitely esoteric and christian mystical insights in his work without it being overtly complex and refferential like Dante's work. Its like trying to find out about christianity through the Silmarilion with no previous knowledge on both.

>>18434045
Hermeticism is pretty talked about on /lit/, I wish /omg/ would just move to /lit/ because /x/ is a shit hole

>>18432992
If you take the materialist position that minds exist wherever there are brains and don't exist otherwise, then all of that is explained by the anthropic principle. If you need to win the lottery six times in a row to exist at all, then everything that exists will find that it has just won six lotteries in a row. And you can look around the universe to see the billions of "losing tickets" where the random processes turned out differently, too close to their sun, never hit the freak series of mutations to enable multicellular life, whatever.

>>18429175
>>18429796
Where Jodo incorporates Tarot into his art it's so cringe and bad my head nearly explodes. There is NO way his book is useful. I'm a fan of his work but that Jew doesn't know fuck all about anything except being edgy and weird. Seriously, all Tarot references in his film and comics are side destroying cringe.

>>18429561
everything is reconcilable with god if you try hard enough

>>18428965
bump

>>18429789
>Read 'The Blind Watchmaker'
Debunked

>>18436941
Lemme guess, the mutations totally could be non random even though it exactly resembles what you'd expect if they were random

>>18429789
Natural selection is real. It's just satanic which is consistent with the content of the bible. The material world is not a godly place naturally. I suspect that nature is the domain of satan.

>>18429005
abrahamism in general is shit tier religion. look at how much kabbalah has to stretch every single word to reconcile judaism with something resembling authentic religion for example

>>18436964
If the mutations were random there would be nothing to select for

>>18428965
bump

>>18428965
Is this new age hippy bullshit? Someone explain what the book is actually about

>>18437849
It's not new. The author remains perfectly orthodox within Catholic dogma, but he uses the Tarot cards as symbols to go on impressive rants of Catholic theology and how we should exist.

>>18429005
It was a religion founded by a gang of illiterate and resentful vagabonds and prostitutes. The church fathers and medieval scholastic did what they could to window dress it with Greek philosophy and European art and architecture, but the reformation did its best to undo all that. It is what it is.

>>18438124
>It was a religion founded by a gang of illiterate and resentful vagabonds and prostitutes
Jesus reads from the Torah and James, Peter and John all wrote letters. The fuck are you talking about. If you dare mention faggoty secular scholarship that claims the traditional authorship is wrong you're blocked.

>>18438131
Ok retard

>>18438131
>you're blocked.
:( )

>>18438143
Thought so. Get out of here faggot, the scriptures are inspired by God and are inerrant.

>>18438131
go on, ban me on 4chan, most bible scholars are chrsitian and they still don't accept the traditional authorship

>>18438186
what argument would you have for a muslim claiming the same for the Quran

>>18429220
There is only one unforgivable sin. Rejection of the Divine Spirit. Makes sense since the Divine Spirit is life. Neville Goddard makes some good points about what sin is. Says the Bible is our biography of our Spiritual journey.

>>18437186
are you actually retarded? the selection process isn't done by some concious or active agent, it is random and whatever aids in their survival is the trait that will get past on

>>18437181
Read or listen to Neville Goddard (or Louise Hay) for a rebuttal. Faith, hope,love. What we give out we get back. What we believe about ourselves becomes the truth for us.

>>18438693
Tarot cards reflect where we are at in our spiritual journey. The three of swords tells us we have inconsistent beliefs. It only predicts the future in that inconsistent beliefs bring heartache.

>>18438684
In practice the selection process is just as random as the mutation process
>Crab gets born with a mutation that gives it a 10% harder shell
>Gets eaten by a predator 10 days after hatching
>Bird gets mutation that makes it fly way slower
>Gets lucky and has 20 offspring
For the math to work out almost every positive mutation would need to be guaranteed to get passed on to make up for the improbability of getting one in the first place but the real world doesn't select for the gradual changes that Evolutionists claim is at the heart of the evolutionary process. Having a beak that is 1% better at cracking nuts is not an advantage that translates into any realistically superior chance at breeding yet it has to because every evolution is comprised of hundreds of these tiny 1% incremental changes over thousands of years.

Not even Darwinians stick by the natural selection theory anymore.

>>18438664
I would say what Neville Goddard says about the bible. It is their biography. I have had many epiphanies reading Science Fiction. James Schmitz is my favorite author. I would love to live in the world of The Witches of Barres.

>>18432558
>implying this brainlet's argument is hard to understand
His point was that the complexity of the eye and the unlikely steps that were needed for it to evolve imply that an intelligence was guiding the evolution with an endpoint in sight. This is patently wrong and obviously cannot be what happened, as exemplified by the myriads of evolutionary dead ends that doomed species and organs to extinction over the eons. Your religious argument is akin to throwing a handful of nails on the floor again and again and when it forms an image of jesus by accident to say: aha, it was god all along! I am sure these kind of arguments fly in American trailer parks but to convince people with basic levels of education it would help to come up with explanations that haven't been debunked and laughed at for 50 years.

>>18438736
Autocorrect is The Queen of Swords. Karres.

>>18438738
I dunno if you've kept up with evolutionary theory but no serious biologist stands by darwinian evolution anymore. It's all about internal cellular processes that edit DNA now, not natural selection. You're basically arguing that those darn Theists just don't understand their Newtonian Mechanics and all physicists know gravity is a force. That hasn't been the case for nearly 80 years now.

>>18429561
>>18429485
Denial of evolution is a tool to allow rigid enforcement of a specific American political and religious dialectic. It's necessary to act as a blunt tool to enforce this dialectic while simultaneously preventing actual theological action. To put it another way, the system is setup in such a manner that if Christianity were to be opened up and tinkered with the existing Christian power structures would lose their power. As such, they MUST prevent Christianity from being opened up and tinkered with; there is no individual, institution, or group of individuals in Christianity as a political force that benefit from the theological work necessary to reconcile Christian thought and Evolution. There are individuals who WANT to do this, but none of them have power.

To put it another way, Evolution MUST be a denied to justify creationism-derived anti-racism in the name of capitalism.

>>18436964
>>18438684
Mutations aren't random, though. This is the crux of the Modern and 21st Century Syntheses. Given a select genetic code there's only so many mutations that can occur within a given timeframe (let's ignore mutations that would result in the organism either not coming to term or dying or something). A dog with an extra set of legs can't just pop out of the womb one day because it ignores the path dependency of the process to get their (such as evolving an entirely new ribcage, a new set of shoulderblades, the nervous and muscular systems to even use these limbs, etc).

>>18435704
You are seriously clueless about the man's work if you think that there is any part of Jodorowsky's art that is not informed in one way or the other by the tarot.

>>18438758
>To put it another way, Evolution MUST be a denied to justify creationism-derived anti-racism in the name of capitalism.
So we need to accept evolution to get people to hate niggers? I'm on board. Fuck off with the commie shit though.

>>18437186
This is the level of insight that is to be expected by jesus freaks. Completely clueless about even the basic principles, yet confident in their denial. Truly ridiculous how alphabetization and the Internet have led to having to even engage with subnormals like this.

>>18438773
I'm a biologist...

>>18438186
>Jewish bronze age myths are absolute truths dictated by a personal creator deity
Imagine thinking like this. Imagine the archaic brain functions that are enough to lead a life in today's American society.

>>18438784
Read Solovyov

>>18438727
>For the math to work out

you are so mentally ill and filled with religious zeal you will deny the most basic facts, based on nothing but some vague "feeling" you have. Post your sources, you religious cuck

>>18438727
>how to prove to the world you were deluded from an early age by preachers

Heartbreaking how low iq individuals get cucked by the clergy

>>18438750
Completely ridiculous. Just because you confidently state your deluded fringe theory as generally accepted doesn't make it true, no matter how much it convinces your cohort of jesus freaks.

>>18438750
Gravity is a force btw, that it isn't was another meme stupid people picked up about 10 years ago without the basest understanding of the topic. You are not smart, face it.

>>18438784
Bugman. Collect your funkopops in silence.

>>18438780
Sure you are buddy, a biologist at the church of latter day saints University of divinity at best. You ridiculous child.

>>18438817
A good point well argued. Christian intelligence at work.

>>18438784
>He thinks he's smarter rhan Dostoyevsky
Lmao. Truly euphoric.

>>18438824
Your post was "Christians are stupid" so I'm working on your level.

>>18438825
Spiritual belief and denial of science do not go hand in hand, no matter how much bible belt Freaks like you may want it to be true. And Just because in your feeble mind throwing out the most ridiculous parts of US preacher ideology goes hand in hand with denying a deeper truth in the universe doesn't make it so for everyone else. Not all spiritual belief is wrong, just yours definitely is. Go get raped by a gay priest.

>>18438841
I am sorry, I now realize you tried to help my argument along by showing how stupid American christfags truly are - well demonstrated!

>>18438841
Christians are not necessarily stupid, the uninformed belief that natural selection could have the results it does if a guiding hand helped it along is though. If you engaged with actual reality and didn't base your worldview on what some nitwit preacher misunderstands about science you may realize this. The truth is out there plainly to see, if you are able to leave your religious blinkers behind.

>>18438841
most christian today either believe in evolution or haven't looked too much into it

>>18438850
>>18438879
Why are atheists so angsty and angry. Teenage rebellious phase?

>>18438899
no matter what somebody believes in, hearing somebody else say what seems like obvious falsehood often incites anger

>>18438899
Cope harder. I realize you feel the need to assert any kind of control over this conversation because of how terribly out of your depth you are, but your infantile "no u!" does not change the fact how deeply you misunderstand the topic even though the truth is just one or two chapters of an introduction to the theory of natural selection away.

Also: I am not an atheist, the Abrahamic religions are just fundamentally wrong about the nature of god.

>>18438899
They're Amerimutts. 15 IQ points lower than other anglo countries. They can't conceive of Christianity outside Southern Baptism so they just keep swinging away at Protestantism like its relevant to anyone else.

>>18438926
Who is right about the nature of God? I hope you're not a gnostic. Platonist is acceptable.

>>18438974
I don't give a shit about what a member of the Shakers, Quakers or whatever Midwestern fringe cult you throw your meagre income at hopes.

>>18432636
This, all these posts seem like cope honestly. If God is so great why doesn't He agree with MEEE.

>>18438784
They are beautiful Bronze Age myths that tell the truth about the inner soul, yes

>>18438758
But mainstream churches don’t deny evolution. Why the fuck are we even talking about this? What has it got to do with Christian Hermeticism? This is about spiritual matters, not physical matters. God isn’t like a human anyway, I think the why the sperg is sperging out at the already well established idea of God and evolution being not at odds, for me understanding evolution is necessary or at least helpful for understanding the bible properly (Adam and Eve was understood to be metaphorical by people even before evolutionary theory), is because he imagines God to be a human engineer instead of the eternal force, will and source of creation.

>>18439414
Furthermore, God has and is the inherit aspect of chaos. In the Kabbalah, the highest emanation of God is Ain, that is pure possibility of everything inside and outside of existence. Thus, God being inherently chaotic, it makes sense that our evolution is chaotic and made via the nature. Of course, God has the aspect of order to Him as well.

Look, if you are going to come to a thread about mysticism at least know your mysticism instead of looking at Christianity from the perspective of a stereotypical redneck. Because this thread isn’t about that sort of Christianity, it’s about the esoteric, occultic and mystical Christianity. But you don’t know about any of that, you saw the word ‘Christianity’ and made assumptions with your ignorance on religion, you probably don’t even know what ‘hermeticism’ or ‘theurgy’ means.

>>18439374

>Jewish bronze age myths are absolute truths dictated by a personal creator deity

>They are beautiful Bronze Age myths that tell the truth about the inner soul, yes

Why "yes"? The first statement is not equal to the second one.

>>18439649
The absolute metaphorical/symbolic truths, that is the purpose of myth - to preserve deeper truths behind stories.

>>18439691
Truly, but surely not what

>the scriptures are inspired by God and are inerrant

meant in his naive religiosity.

>>18429485
The problem with evolution isn't that "species change over time". But the idea of evolution also implies the idea of progress which is wrong. Species can change but not necessarily in something better. When it comes to humans, all sacred texts alluded to something which is closer to an involution(the fall from the Bible, humans used to live longer in the OT, hindu time cycles, etc.). If you think at it, all modern theories are actual inversions of the traditional truths, not just a different direction of opinion, but pure inversions.

>>18439915
>the idea of evolution also implies the idea of progress which is wrong

Another brainlet religious nut arguing against the straw man theory his preacher made up for him. You _misunderstand_ natural selection to imply an idea of progress. If you had read even a children's book explanation of it you would know that it is not about progress, it's about minor changes in the organisms making them more or less likely to create offspring. An orangutan is not less developed than a human or more developed than a slug, they are all formed by natural selection to fit their environment. There are countless evolutionary dead ends documented. Again, READ A FUCKING BOOK ON THE SUBJECT - this is a sophisticated scientific theory, not something you can make your mind up about after someone who doesn't even get it vaguely described it to you.

Stop pretending to be smart and philosophical, do what makes people smart and EXPAND YOUR KNOWLEDGE. All you're doing right now is making a fool of yourself.

>>18439915
>involution
If you don't know what a word means, don't use it.

>>18429005
I'm thinking of creating a Christianity where communion is once every three months but you do shrooms together. Thoughts?

>>18439915
>>18439975
Two retards arguing with each other.

>>18439975
blah blah blah, idc, science is gay

>>18439915
>But the idea of evolution also implies the idea of progress which is wrong
No it doesn't. There is not a biologist on Earth that would allude to this.

>>18439414
>But mainstream churches don’t deny evolution
Look anon, Cathedrals are beautiful, but Christianity only matters in America. That's where the theology happens.

>>18440147
Hm, now that you put it like that, maybe I should accept jesus as my Christ and savior...

>>18429485
The insistence that science has to be accepted as the immediate and totalizing Prime Mover of everything is equally ridiculous. I don’t really give a fuck about evolution in the same way some people probably don’t give a fuck about God, but I’m so sick of this Enlightenment-era masturbation around scientific ideas and theories. It’s an amazing and beautiful way to describe how the world works, but it feels like instead of people going to it for conversations and questions, they’re only seeking it out now for desperate answers. It makes me incredibly sad, because it also seems like a lot of people who are really into modern science think that they’re somehow avoiding and conquering the mistakes religion has made in the past when in fact they’re just repeating them step-for-step and word-for-word.

>>18440181
>but Christianity only matters in America.
Ok, this post convinced me to try to make the nuking of America a reality at all costs. It’s horrific crime that God will judge me for, but I accept the judgment, it’s for the greater good.

>>18439989
Bring in occult, inner alchemical and theurgical practices in the mix

>>18428965
You're right, OP. In some ways I wish I hadn't read it, though. I had spent a good decade constructing a coherent world view that made sense to me at the time. This one book wrecked that completely and made me realise I don't know shit about anything. Simpler times.

>>18428965
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS GAY ARGUMENT HAVE TO DO WITH THE THREAD? SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

The bible is metaphorical, and most normal religious people believe in God and evolution, that’s all that needs to be established. Everything else after that is pointless, sure there is natural selection and randomness, but God has chaos within Him and chaos proceeds from God, it’s not crazy to think that random stuff can occur from an immense being like God and yet it can be said that God metaphorically fashioned human beings in that His abstract power/influence/innateness gave humans their characteristic way of thought (or whatever, it’s a pretty badly worded way to put my point across).

How is this edition bros? Goo read before this book?

>>18433490
not him but this looks like a good how to
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zo9pLf5Mai4

Can I read this book with no background in either Christian theology or Hermeticism?

>>18432882
>Eckhart goes against that and approaches Buddhism.
Huh? That's not true. All the Christian mystics had divinization as their goal.

>>18440905
yes
https://www.curezone.org/upload/PDF/tatuoscuro666/Hermetica_G_R_S_Mead.pdf

>>18440905
>>18440933
*but it's better to start here

>my thread got deleted for no reason
I guess I'll ask here, what are the best books on hermetic qabalah and christian cabbala? Not new age stuff, something from authors who actually know what they're talking about.

>>18440919
Divinization? Sure. Dissolution? No.

>>18441190
That's my point.

>>18441194
Yes and Eckhart preaches dissolution and he doesn't even believe in the trinity. In Meditations on the Tarot he's cited only twice and for very marginal reasons. Hans Urs Von Balthasar famously hated Eckhart and loves Meditations on the Tarot.

There's no reason to look into German quietism if you like this book, or Christian Hermeticism in general.

>>18432636
if you think modern christianity has anything to do with early christianity I've got bad news for you anon...

>>18439975
Natural selection does seem to include a tendency to complexification, which could be seen as a drive to progress.

>>18440573
Best edition if you want modern scholarly commentary. Walter Scott has original texts tho if fluent in archaic languages. Lotsa cheap unannotated copies available but lack of context often lends itself to new ageism. If you don't mind century old freemasonic biased takes then Thrice Great Hermes has an interesting mixture of text and commentary. Egyptian Hermes is excellent. Eternal Hermes is nice if a but occultic. Arabic Hermes is supposedly good but neglected but never read it myself.

>>18440953
Hermetic qabalah and christian kabbalah? Dion Fortune Mystical Qabalah is standard for hermetic still. Pico is common for Christian. There's lists of more renaissance bros out there but lesser known. I would suggest starting with Kaplan's Inner Space or Meditation and Kabbalah tho.

What's the appeal of hermeticism and esoterism? What does it bring you to know that there's a metaphor for becoming close to God?

>>18441376
>Dion Fortune
Her background seems really new ageish though, I saw her book criticized several times on this board.
Thanks for the recommendations.

>>18441469
She’s good, though her flaws are from her starting out as being part of the theosophical society - few people fully recover.

>>18428965
I need material on how to balance the “elemental forces”. There is a severe lack of public literature on how to control your emotions, which is as far as I know part of the Masonic curriculum every Blue Lodge fag has to go through.

Becoming conscious is the best thing one can do of course, but god damn I don’t get how they learned to control their emotions.

>>18429433
This book may be too far outside the Overton Window for some, so it better be read slowly.

>>18429485
>My little pony raptor dildos and impossible burgers
First let's try getting white people away from turning into brown Manlet monkeys and endangered.

>>18429485
read Humani Generis please

>>18442103
REAL DINOSAUR HORSE COCK FOR SALE

>>18428965
Everything Balthasar has even remotely touched it fantastic imo

>>18438680
This has been my experience. Not listening to my innermost sincere conscience always produced catastrophe, not being empty in my mind in order to receive lead to disaster, not daring to ask lead to much wasted time, not opening my eyes to see the gift right in front of me lead to many wasted opportunites. Ego, pride, greed, whatever deadly sin you get think of is actually what goes against the Divine Spirit.

It’s unforgivable truly, you do get punished for not following it.

Also Logos and wydna please post more book recommendations, thanks

Bump

>>18429189
>Tradcucks will neglect the hermetic and occultist tradition in Christianity while sucking the balls of the post-VCII Church
Traditional Catholics explicitly do not like Vatican II, what are you talking about?

>>18442130
Wasn't he a universal salvationist?

>>18442741
He wants to be but he never said it's true. His thing was that we should hope for universal salvation.

>>18442130
Balthasar is great. So is de Lubac. It's a real shame that so many Catholics smear nouvelle théologie as modernism because I think the project had the right goals, even if in the end the results were not as desired. The Catholic Church was in the grip of a strangling Neo-Thomism that was draining the life of lived theology by endless manualism and scholastic definitions. Getting back to Patristics and bringing the Church back to its roots was the right thing to do, but unfortuately the efforts of the ouvelle théologians were subverted by real modernists who wanted a new age relativism rather than a return to the mind of the Church Fathers.

>>18433231
>Corpus Hermeticum
>seventeen Greek treatises
Why does Ancient Greek have such a greater corpus of literature.

>>18432882
>it's the religion that preservers personality.
The only one? I doubt that.

>>18442741
No this is a typical misreading of a fairly small work of his in massive corpus
He said to hope for the salvation of all, even when we know that many shall be and have been damned.
>>18442844
But a hope without reason is the highest folly, so how could there be such a hope? Only through taking the actions we can in order to save as many as possible.
So he is neither a universal salvationist nor a "practical universalist" either.
>>18440919
Eckhart's dissolution of the will isn't a dissolution of the soul so its not buddhism. Its just a more literal reading of Gal 2:20 "No longer I but Christ lives in me."
As we say in the Our Father, not my will but; "Thy will be done."

>>18428965
For a woman maybe