/lit/ - Literature

The God Delusion

>>18418646
Cormac McCarthy agnosticism pisses me off.

>>18418726
>>18418646

>>18418726
Why?

>>18418739
>i'm a loser who hates living so I can't god

>>18418726
>agnostic
He seems to believe in a malevolent God.

>>18418777
you have to be spoiled by fortune to like life. and fortune runs out for everyone eventually

>>18418613
Atheists would very much be able to understand TBK. Rebellion and The Grand Inquisitor are both great chapters that can be appreciated by both theists and atheists.
That's what made Dosto a great writer. He never strawmans the arguments of characters with different views than his own

>>18418739
That is the argument by one of his characters. There is another one in the same play who is a firm believer.

>>18418983
JP says that he actually does quite the contrary.

>>18419159
By which I mean that JP says Dosto makes the argument of characters with different views than his own as strong and plausible as possible before explaining why they're wrong.

>>18419159
>>18419164
That's exactly what the fine anon you responded to said.

>>18419181
Yeah I guess you are right, I just thought he meant that Dosto didn't make the arguments look bad, instead of that he actually tried to make them sound as convincing as it can.

>as they can*

>>18418983
I can’t imagine atheists fully appreciating the Zossima or Alyosha chapters. You need to be a seriously religious person to get the full impact.

>>18418613
Former atheist here. That book converted me to Christianity.

>>18418613

>>18420307
Atheists can't understand literally anything.

>>18418955
Its a fortune that your eyeballs stay inside your head and dont constantly fall out.

>>18418726
I can never tell where he stands, I remember that monologue by the insane priest in The Crossing really resonating with me (“Every breath taken that does not bless is an afront”) even though I had no clue what he was talking about, yet his overall worldview seems so misanthropic and pretty much universally avoids themes like love/redemption/etc. Hell, I can’t think of how many times he goes out of his way to have compassion punished by cynical opportunism.

>>18418613
Kek
shitty thread

>>18419164
I’d disagree, I don’t think most of the atheist arguments in his books are really answered in a way that non-Christians would appreciate. “Rebellion” is just a dressed-up problem of evil, which Alyosha doesn’t have any response to. “The Grand Inquisitor” is supposedly countered by Zosima’s biography (and Dmitri/Grushenka’s arcs), but that’s really just an example of one person’s glory in using their free will to redeem themselves, not a refutation to the convincing claim that most people would be better off without having that burden in the first place. Myshkin suffers terribly for the crime of being a Christlike person, and even if atheists are saddened by this, it’s not an argument about anything regarding God.
I’m a Christian myself and love Dost, but I don’t think he was trying to destroy atheists with epic facts and logic like some people act. The structure of his setups echo the struggle of having faith against rationalist society: you may not have a satisfying concrete answer, but you can feel something. “If it was proven that Christ was outside the truth, I would still choose Christ” or however the quote goes.

>>18421395
I unfortuantely can't fully appreciate your effortpost because I haven't read TBK yet, only Crime and Punishment (which I didn't like at all when I was a teenager but nowadays is one of my favourites even though I'm atheist), White Nights (which I think is shit), The Gambler, which has little to do with religion, and one or two short stories.

>>18418613

I actually read it when I was 18 and my neck hair stood on end when I read Grand Inquisitor cold, good stuff. When I finished with it I was happy to know that someone makes an interesting moral/intellectual case for belief, which I could then better reject from a certain authority-position of having actually read and understood the thing, also similar themes in Crime and Punishment: "B-b-but if no god then EVERYTHING is possible and ALL is permitted (yes, even THAT). The response? See the picture.

t. unswayed 37 yo atheist

>>18421453
>White Nights (which I think is shit)
Would you believe me if I told you my crush name is literally Nastenka?
>The Gambler, which has little to do with religion
He was pretty religious in his gambling, giving all of himself. Trusting "the next game (life) will be good". I don't know, I feel like gambling and religion are not that different (see Pascal).

>>18418739
what a retard kek. fake philosopher because he asks retarded questions. i guess that makes him even more of a real philosopher

>>18421507
>When I finished with it I was happy to know that someone makes an interesting moral/intellectual case for belief, which I could then better reject from a certain authority-position of having actually read
You're 37 and you still come off sounding like Lucas.

>>18421507
>When I finished with it I was happy to know that someone makes an interesting moral/intellectual case for belief, which I could then better reject from a certain authority-position of having actually read
You're 37 and you still come off sounding like Lucas. Cringe.

>>18421507
>t.

>>18421507
>"B-b-but if no god then EVERYTHING is possible and ALL is permitted (yes, even THAT). The response? See the picture.
I hope you've never moralfagged about anything. Would be a shame if you were inconsistent with your own views.

>>18418613

>>18421674
Are you russian? Wtf

>Trusting "the next game (life) will be good"
And getting fucked up by and sucked into that black hole that is gambling lol

>>18420307
Dawkins is peak sperg mentality

>>18418983
>He never strawmans
>writes Kirillov

>>18421682
The quote is from a character, retard

>>18418613
I'm an atheist and this is the book that got me into reading. It also the book that opened my mind to the fact that not all religious thought is worthless garbage, then I discovered this board and I reverted back to my old ideas.

>>18421682
Read the play, you dumbass.

>>18419318
Those were my favorite parts. Don't know if I understood them as well as you, but I understood how both of they felt and were, even if not how they thought.

>>18421752
It's not even cringe, you're just being defensive.

>>18418613
any wittgenstein works

>>18422423
No. The spoiler/pic makes it pretty cringe.

>>18421507
>B-b-but if no god then EVERYTHING is possible and ALL is permitted (yes, even THAT).
refute it

Considering the fact that all things and all men are created by God, and everything done by any man is done only with the strength given to him by God, and according to God's will, then can it really be said that Atheists understand anything?

>>18422688
Why would God create Atheists?

>>18421507
confess your sins, anon

>>18422043
it's not a joke if it's true

>>18422815
just tell your friends to go outside and stop thinking about themselves so much

>>18422043
/thread

>>18422996
what the fuck are you talking about

>>18422688
It can't because it's impossible to actually be an atheist

>>18422169
>>18420412

> man makes joke
> autists online seethe

>>18422076
>Are you russian? Wtf
No, but there are Slavic immigrants in my country. To be completely fair, Nastenka is just her middle name, not the one with which she introduce herself.