/lit/ - Literature

>>18400656
>>18400656
Wrote this a while back, I forgot if I posted this, and if I did, I forgot the critique you guys gave me, do you mind if you could give me more critique.

>>18400656
Wrote this a while back, I forgot if I posted this, and if I did, I forgot the critique you guys gave me, do you mind if you could give me more critique.

It’s a capepunk/psychological story. Hope that helps.

>>18400734
it's not bad

>>18400755

Thank you for taking theto read it, anon. I know the excerpt is only three paragraphs long, but did you see anything that could be reworked or improved upon? Any mistakes that I can rectify? This is my first serious bout in actually writing, so any tips are helpful.

A few days ago, I read a really good story.

No, I'm not going to tell you what it was.

>>18400902
But why would you tel us if you’re not going to share it?

>>18400734
I thought using italics to emphasize something was frowned upon.

>>18401002
Is it really? I read a few books that used italics to put emphasis on words, and when search up on how to use italics, the only things that came up about italics being frowned upon is when writing an essay using MLA style, even then, it’s mostly discouraged. Should I change it? Just to be certain or no?

>>18400656
I wrote this after reading the first few pages of RC Waldun's shitty campus novel and thought I could do better lol. I don't think I'm very good but would like to improve

>>18401102
Vengeful lovers are known for pouring down?

>>18401126
angrily, in a smothering or suffocating fashion

Mai peered around the tree that served as her cover. A dirt road ran out of the forest, between two flat fields, and ended at a cobblestone bridge under which a river ran. In front of the bridge stood two armed men and not far from them, on a patch of grass next to the dirt road, their horses. The men did not seem to notice Mai and conversed excitedly. She was close enough to make out the men's lips; their voices, however, were swallowed up by the sound of the river. One man carried a rapier strapped to his belt; the other carried a crossbow on his back. The handle of the rapier caught Mai's attention. She recognized an engraved dragon with four heads; the heraldic animal of House Castleroy. Mai backed away behind the tree; her heart racing.

>>18401067
It's fine, I'm probably nitpicking. There's no absolute rule about it.

>>18401102
>RC Waldun
Who? I swear, it feels like people are becoming e-celebs for the wrong reasons.

>I don't think I'm very good but would like to improve
That’s a good mindset to have if you wish to improve on your writing.

As for your excerpt, I think, in my opinion, you’re trying way to hard in the beginning to hook the readers that sound engaging but reads somewhat ridiculous.

>>18401173
I tried to write a text filled with obnoxious rhymes and rhythms.

>>18401102
>RC Waldun
Who? I swear, it feels like people are becoming e-celebs for the wrong reasons.

>I don't think I'm very good but would like to improve
That’s a good mindset to have if you wish to improve on your writing.

As for your excerpt, I think, in my opinion, you’re trying way to hard in the beginning to hook the readers with words that are engaging but when read out loud reads somewhat ridiculous.

>>18401203
>you’re trying way to hard in the beginning to hook the readers with words that are engaging but when read out loud reads somewhat ridiculous.
that's fair, thanks for the feedback brother

>>18401239
No problem, hope I help. And never be discouraged when writing. There’s always room for improvement. I know I improved. Here’s an excerpt of a story I stop writing.

My biggest inspiration for my storys is jack london what does that say about me /lit/?

>>18401408
>jack london
>A pioneer of commercial fiction and American magazines, he was one of the first American authors to become an international celebrity and earn a large fortune from writing. He was also an innovator in the genre that would later become known as science fiction.
I don’t get it? What’s the problem here? He seems like a good reason to be inspired to write.

>>18401408
He has a good writing style. Try reading some Steinbeck as well, they are similar.

>>18401408
You like to get yiffy.

>>18401408
You should stop worrying about others think of you and write for yourself. Trust me, nothing good ever comes from writing for others, especially for /lit/.

>>18400734
I like this, feel like it would be a part of something much greater and deeper, you should certainly continue developing it

>>18400734
>"why am i here"
cringe and pretentious

>>18401408
I like Jack London and think he’s an underrated writer so it’s only positive.

I'm so stupid. When I write, it's like the idea hasn't even finished forming in my mind. I write a sentence, I look at it, then get irritated at how sparse it looked, like a basic-bitch summary of what I really wanted, and then I revise it again and again until it's fleshed out.

How can I hold myself back until a thought is fully formed in my head so that I can express it?

>>18402097
But that's just writing... you're writing like any writer does

>>18402097
that's called writing. also you might be autistic
new writers tend to put a lot of priority to making every sentence feel just right
read something by a respectable author. identify areas of rest, when the prose is quiet and doesn't call to itself and identify areas of interest, when the prose is more deliberate and charming
then incorporate this into your writing. worrying about every little word will just make wear you out and stunt your progress

>>18402114
>>18402138
But all the meme advice I read talks about how you have to trim the first draft down. My first draft is absolutely anemic.

>new writers tend to put a lot of priority to making every sentence feel just right
I'd like it to not feel like a fucking disaster, which has happened more often than not.

>>18402145
trim it down after you've finished it, not while you're writing it
if you're not just being insecure and you sincerely think your writing is irredeemable trash then the only solution is read more and write more
just power through anon, you'll get there so long as you don't stop

>>18402145
I'm an underwriter to,
Alot of the time I get stuck trying too add the the middle parts in the main plot points

I think whats important is that you Start with the major plot points it doesn't matter if you cut too much just try to lay out the basics then build opun it. Everyone writes their own way you know

Also i understand you want the best first draft Your just not gonna get it, it takes time too shape an idea its like a seed you must tend too it.

However having something you can work with is another story and thats ok, but don't try too make it perfect, if you want something you can build on then try too make that but don't try too make it perfect

>have trouble writing the big first novel I planned out, so I switch to some high concept idea I had rolling in my head
>finally manage to write 1100 words in one sitting, no problem at all
>it's a story too smutty to publish regularly but not smutty enough to sell as erotica

>>18401843
here's mine
I hath long lost any hunger
And fell into a deep slumber
Staring into the final ember
Of the faint dance of fire

I hath long lost any feeling
And struggled to find a meaning
The entire world to me seeming
To have gave up all desire

I hath long lost any friend
And wandered lonely to no end
By the river’s dimm’d bend
Hoping to spark an ire

I hath long forgot what I had
And thought myself to be mad
Until a soul of golden clad
Appear’d as a flaming pyre

I hath long since woe’d
And to God’s name I call’d
But with silence He replied
Was it her or only fire?

>>18402323
>have trouble writing big novel
>have trouble writing high concept
Worldbuilding drags me down and I realize even the basic core of my idea sucks...

>>18402506
Just realized this is not poetry general and that I am in fact retarded

Last night I got a page done while listening to an animal charity in the background and I sold a paperback! That feels really good!
Let's do our best everyone!

>>18402599
What worked for me was just coming up with a situation that would result from the concept I was working with and writing how it plays out moment to moment, even if it didn't explain what was going on in the first place. It was more like a singular episode en medias res, free of any build up.
If there's an interesting interaction or specific moment in the world you've developed that catches your imagination, try to write it out in detail. Maybe a good core will spring from there, even.

Does anyone have any general advice for writing in the first person? I get an awkward rhythm going and have trouble getting solid sentences down when limiting myself to one character's feelings, and not being able to get into everyone's head when I feel it's necessary.
As a bit of miscellaneous info, the character has become a bit of a silent protag who others talk at rather than with, possibly because of this.

>>18402692
Great success anon, I'm cheering for you

>>18402871
You've been diagnosed with a lethal case of anime
Suggested prescription: read a fucking book

>>18402889
Explain? I had read Post Office and liked how much character he gave him but I just feel awkward and my character is not a crazy man

Guys i've written a self-Insert and i wanted too know is that bad?

I'm trying too protray the flawed me, not the best me

I'm trying too protray my disabitys and flaws

is that bad? because their a self insert

In the title to an academic paper I write: "bla bla bla Indian-registered bla bla bla". Is that correct or should it be: "bla bla bla Indian-Registered bla bla bla"??!!!

PLEASE HELP. I am needful.

My novel is almost finished. Its just a story when it boils down to it. There is no overarching theme or meaning behind it.

Worried this means I have failed, and haven’t progressed as much as I should shave

>>18403173
its almost impossible to write a story without any theme or meaning. Just by creating what you consider to be a "believable and coherent world," you've snuck in opinions about what is believable and coherent. The same is true even if you sought out to create the opposite.

>>18403136
no, but I think you have a bigger problem than self-insertion

>>18403173
Death of the Author exists anon, people will project meaning into things that don't have it
Just ask /tv/ any question about the Star Wars Prequels

>>18400734
Sentences go on for too long and there's details I can't be arsed to care about interspersed through the excerpt.

>>18403162
I was actually curious about this and a tl:dr for me I would do Indian-Registered but I decided to research the subject. I hope these links help you in your future endeavors.
https://writing.markfullmer.com/academic-style-titles
https://www.businesswritingblog.com/business_writing/2010/08/capitalizing-hyphenated-words-in-titles.html

I think I'm retarded. I don't have any trouble getting inspired, coming up with characters or vague ideas but I'm absolutely hopeless when it comes to fleshing out even the most basic plot without bouncing ideas off of someone. Is my creativity broken? How do you guys do it?

>>18401102
Not bad. It's readable. But imo you are using too many descriptions and it's making each one more forgettable. In the first paragraph you describe the weather as cruel, vengeful, vindictive, etc. I would stick with one so it pops more (the vengeful lover is the best but I would change it a little. As some one else pointed out lovers don't pour down)

>>18404031
Everyone's different. I like to take off my glasses and my hearing aid and put music on and imagine myself going on an adventure. I also take in a lot of other media so I kind of already have the mental scaffolding built.
Blindfold yourself and listen to this song. Imagine your main character venturing forth. Where would he go? What sights would he see? From there it's just typing it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF3gNueEfXQ

>>18404031
This is the planner vs "pantser" continuum. Some people like to exactingly plan out every single thing and can't write without that framework. Some people get incredibly bored and can't bring themselves to even commit anything to paper that isn't the actual writing itself. Most people fall somewhere between these two extremes. You might be a pronounced pantser (god I fucking hate that word) and there's nothing wrong with that. Feel free to just write instead of rigorously planning everything out and instead see where the writing takes you. I'm personally almost completely improvisational with my writing. Storyboards and character sheets and plot structures are anathema to me, and things I can only bring myself to deal with once I have some actual writing to dig into. I do stop and evaluate where I've been going with my writing, where it should go next, who the characters are, etc, but for me that is primarily a function of editing.

I've gotten about a thousand words shat out so far since I started an hour ago. I've been aiming to make chapters roughly ~5000 words each. Is that an acceptable chapter size for a fiction novel?

>>18404370
That's fine. Worry more about the structure of the chapter itself before you worry about word count.

>>18404373
I am, I just end up going back to add filler or spread out points of interest if I feel the chapter's too short.

>>18404370
It's a misconception to assume there is an "acceptable" word count. Chapters can be as short as a single sentence or as long as 20k words.

>>18404381
Yeah. Hell, the first "chapter" of Gravity's Rainbow is like 200 pages long. In Molloy, Beckett uses precisely one paragraph break. It's the writing itself that matters.

>>18401002
Let them frown anon. I don't give a fuck.

>>18401002
>>18401067
It's fine so long as you use it for what it's meant for, to emphasize things you want to catch the reader's attention. As such, it's better used sparingly. If every other line has an italicized words, the effectiveness diminishes and it just becomes an annoyance.

>>18400734
>psychological story
This has a tautology. As for the writing itself, this is one of those examples where "write what you know" goes wrong. Nobody wants to read a description of a professor's way of speaking, or about students texting under their desks.
>had a distinctive way of speaking that even
This is grammatically clumsy. The opening question, beyond the incredibly trite coffeehouse existentialism, is also worded poorly. Or maybe it's just grammatically incorrect. It's hard to tell if it's poor writing or poor understanding of grammatical convention. That's a problem in and of itself before you address which one of those it actually is.

I need an honest opinion on this premise + the style it will be in.

It is the last Friday of the summer and, before she goes back to school, Doreen goes on a journey to see the beach one last time.

This will be written in a stream-of-consciousness style where it flits over, mainly the young girl's perception of her life/relationships, but also delves a little into her parents: mother and step-father and father.

Key points in this novel are:
1. relationships
2. jealousy

there is also a sub-plot where the mother is actually murderous due to her life not going the way she wants it to and she basically killed the dad and is thinking of killing the step father and, at the end of the novel, thinking of killing both her and her daughter

i need help with a few things.
1. Do you believe this premise would work? (i know the idea is that everything could work if written well enough but nevertheless, i would like some reassurance)
2. would you be interested in this?
3. what would you hate about this?

if you can help answer any of those that would be absolutely amazing

>>18404524
Unless you're the next Virginia Woolf I personally would be almost completely uninterested. I have had more than enough blandly written, safe fiction about common topics. There isn't a single plot point or story twist that could ever possibly interest me enough to read that because I don't give a single, solitary shit about plot or story. But I'm probably not your target audience.

My style is too cumbersome and inneficientt. Could you give me some advice on how to distill it to get rid of everything but the essential?

>>18404524
Why would you want to write about some school girl's beach trip? I don't get it.

>>18404547
Distill it until you get rid of everything but the essential.

>>18404524
>i know the idea is that everything could work if written well enough
The corollary is that no premise is good enough to save poor execution.

>>18404541
thanks for the response.

That's what I'm worried about, honestly, but i can assure you it's less about the plot and more about the characters' relationships and the plot points, namely the trip to the beach, just serve that (with, of course, everything else just really adding to the character and how/why they act)
>>18404549
I think a girl reflects this story better and while there could be also jealousy between a mother and her son, I feel in this the mother would be more jealous of her daughter; is that wrong?
>>18404554
so, basically, that's all it comes down to?

>>18404574
>so, basically, that's all it comes down to?
Basically. Granted, you can get lucky with the premise vs. execution thing. Fifty Shades of Gray comes immediately to mind. But it was really just luck that it succeeded in any capacity, much less to the extent it did. If you're writing to trust in luck you might as well save yourself some time and just buy lottery tickets instead.

>>18404574
>is that wrong?
That's not the problem. What do you want to say by this story? So this insane woman is jealous of her daughter to the point of murder? Ok, that's pretty crazy, but so what? I think that's more a reason NOT to read this novel than to read it. Why do you think it's worth telling?

>>18404598
>what a day to be feeling good on wish mountain!

A lizard man, who is a failure as a person socially, intellectually, and professionally struggles to handle basic work in his assigned caste basted society. His only saving grace is that he was born with genetic luck enough to make him larger and stronger than the others of his kind on average. Besides that he's stupid, clumsy, a coward, and self pitying to the point of near self destruction.

The society he lives in is inspired off of Mesoamerican and South American natives from way back when, barely entering the bronze age. Outside of the civilized city states and such are lush jungles full of less civilized and intelligent lizard folk.

Dread falls upon his life when a large burst of light erupts within the sky, leaving only a very wide, bright crimson star that never moves from its spot. Soon after, his city is invaded by hoards of the savages that infest the jungles. His family is maimed, with his mother kidnapped. In a burst of filial obligation and rage, he joins volunteers from his city to hunt down the savages in order to save the captives.

Upon venturing into the jungle they're all met with sinister forces the likes of which they couldn't imagine. As he flees for his life, a broken spirit of an already worthless man, he meets a humanoid made of pure metal that offers him a chance at vengeance with his help.

Does this sound like an interesting synopsis and such so far? Would you read this book? I'm kind of very tired and head cunted so idk if it made much sense so far.

>>18404591
oh yea, sure, i meant if it just comes down to that, it's something i can work on, practice and study
>>18404598
i see what you mean. That isn't the point of the story though, like i said, her mother killing her husband/having murderous thoughts is just a subplot and effectively a depiction of control problems through relationships and a deterioration of mental health (probably makes it worse to you guys though)
i think the story is worth telling because it allows me to display the damage parents can consciously (and unconsciously) cause on children and how that affects the kid's development/own relationships in the future

Here's an excerpt from a story I'm writing. I'm going for something a bit comical but sad at the same time what do you think? https://pastebin.com/SYsXnrFt

>>18404524
If you managed to write this and get it published while pretending to be a woman (i.e pen name) you would be rich. I personally wouldn't read it but women would and they would love it.

>>18404667
Cut the semicolon usage. It works for more highbrow, exploratory writing that puts heavy emphasis on flow and lyricism but is just jarring when used in this style.

>>18404771
Was thinking that myself but it's been drilled into me so it's hard to stop, I am going for a more simple style but I find the way I write is both too concise and too much rambling so it requires them. What did you think of the story?

>>18404792
I don't read anything for the story.

>>18404803
>I don't read anything for the story.

>>18404810
Just being honest my dude. What you're basically asking me is how well the events of your writing express their instantiation of one of only a handful of stories which have been told stretching all the way back to oral history. "Story's fine, bro."

>>18404820
Based autist

>>18404631
>head cunted
Fucking hell anon, that got me. I'd read your story though. Perhaps give the protagonist some redeeming characteristics other than his size and strength, it doesn't seem like he's all that interesting.

Would it be possible to write a story based on a Crow like character that doesn't end up being a superhero sort of story? More grounded in reality and nothing supernatural or even too violent.

>>18404974
So you want to tell a story where a man comes back from the dead to seek vengeance but without any supernatural elements or violence?

I watch video essays about shitty YA media on youtube to feel better about my own writing

>>18405031
Krimson Rouge is a channel that goes very in depth into terrible books, like Onision's. Feel's good not being that bad.
On the other hand I haven't been published.

>>18405020
I mean the aesthetic and morality more so than anything. Honestly I'd like to base it more on Sting Crow. A man who has been abandoned by his friends and now has to change his personality and morality to get revenge.

I am writing the gothic horror psychological mystical screenplay that is gonna change cinema, you, me, forever
Good luck
It's coming

>>18405099
Is it Mysteries of Udolpho but the cast is all black?

>>18405109
No being a pajeet i fill the diversity quota
All cast members are polish men and Dutch women
Everyone over 6 feet

>>18405099
sorry brother but i'm the one already writing the screenplay that will change cinema, you are late to the party. it's a historical screenplay about real events, about how people were making art in 1910. good luck to you anyway

For the Royal Road posters. What's the ideal word count for a chapter? I know the name of the game over there is producing as much content as possible, but I find myself unable to write less than 3k words for a chapters, the problem is that takes me a bit of time to do.

Yet when I try to spilt them up into shorter chapters it doesn't really work, mostly because my story is heavy in dialogue, and thus most of the movement is listening to two characters go back and forth, so I struggle to find cutting off points

>>18405204
3 or 4 thousand words is ideal if you can keep up with that type of output.

Wanting to write sci fi and I really don't know how to handle the following. There was an idea sort of born from playing around with concepts but now I'm afraid maybe it wasn't that good, some things are good but the main guy, not feeling it, too worried what people will think.
Look, I just want to do the PDK thing here
I don't know if people will be ok with a non human not quite human protagonist, the usual beats worry me, I'm unsure on the theme of my work, how does it reflect? Should I even worry about this?

>>18405295
Are you a schizo? Because your post is nonsense to me.

>>18405418
USELESS PIECE OF SHIT, EITHER ANSWER ME OR FUCK OFF

>>18405418
It's coherent. Just a forced quirkiness.

>>18405423
It's not forced quirkiness, I write as I speak
YOUR WHOLE FUCKING BOARD IS GETTING IT UNLESS YOU HELP ME

>>18405439
Okay, you're genuinely spastic then.

>>18405448
YOU WILL HELP ME AND YOU WILL HELP ME NOW OR I WILL HAVE A TANTRUM THAT WILL LAST MONTHS ON THIS SHITTY FUCKING GENERAL

Should I try writing then read books from the OP or vice versa? So far I've been writing only my diary, unironically.

>>18405451
/lit/ is a pretty heavily moderated board lately.

>>18405204
Usually, its 2k per chapter. Some do 3k. Some of the most popular authors somehow manage 10-30k weekly chapters, but, generally, over 3k can seem too long.

>>18405457
YOU CAN'T DEFEAT ME
YOU DON'T KNOW THE LENGTHS I AM WILLING TO GO
YOU WILL HELP ME NOW

HELP ME NOW
>>18405457
>>18405452
>>18405464
>>18405451
>>18405448
>>18405439
>>18405423
>>18405421
>>18405418
ANSWER ME NOW

>>18405470
The answer is that your fear has no point either way. Some people will like it, some not. If it's done well, you have a higher chance of more people liking it.

>>18405480
you will TELL ME HOW TO DO IT RIGHT

>>18405483
Read more; write more. There are no shortcuts or things to be learned except experientially. Now stop shitposting.

>>18405489
hOW LONG SHOULD IT TAKE ME TO BE GOOD?

>>18405480
I mean, I'm writing a story where one of the characters is a comet that interacts by sending materialized thoughts. And after I finish the story, I'll be editing and polishing until I consider it's done. Or until I open patreon/open monetization on online publishing platform and need content.

>>18405491
If you want to be good you will never see yourself as good.

>>18405496
dont pretend to be me
>>18405498
USELESS information, tell me now

What techniques and methods d you use to plan and layout plots, arcs and characters?

Ive used the snbs and it is working well, do you guys have any other similar devices?

Is there a term for a book that's not written to target children (in term of vocabulary, plot complexity, etc) but could be considered suitable for children because it lacks things like sexual content and violence?

>>18405592
I literally just write. I can't plan shit.

>>18405645
Fun for the whole family.

>>18405645
Young adult maybe?

Can I post a chapter of my novel here for critique?

>>18402679
I think poetry is allowed since poetry resources are included in the general.
Your poem shows a striking image and even conveys a sense of time space (mostly due to the river stanza) which can be hard in a confessional poem with a rhyme scheme. The major downside is it seems choked and stilted. The actual content is great but the use of "hath" instead of "have" and the strange "woe'd" in the last stanza throws off attention to the good points.
The poem itself shows a talent struggling to overcome a compulsion for order and forced rhyme. You create a strong, dynamic image though, which shows potential. I would love to see you write a poem with less structure. I think it would allow that image to come out even stronger.

>>18405958
Yeah go nuts

>>18402692
Based. I wanna sell a paperback too bros

>>18405491
10,000 hours of active practice.

A(male) is together and very close with B(female). C(f) is in love with A. B is irrationally jealous because A chooses to maintain friendship with C.
B's jealousy reaches a tipping point and A ends up in a situation where B forces him to harm C emotionally.
How do you deal with the fallout? What angles would you end up exploring, considering A and B's relationship is pivotal to the story?
I feel like exploring that part of B's character is necessary for development, but then again it's a difficult situation to handle.
>inb4 cringe
I know it is, but people seem to like it.

>>18405958
It's my first novel and this is a rough draft so far but feel free to go as hard as you want

>>18406143

>>18406149
This isn't the first chapter so some things may not make sense. sorry.

>>18406092
Has C done anything wrong? To B or otherwise to warrant being hurt? Is A willing to harm C just for his relationship with B? Is A and B really a good fit? Or is it a toxic relationship?

I personally had a situation where I liked my best friend and her boyfriend hated me with a passion, eventually leading to us not being friends with some harsh words being said. In the long run, while it brought her temporary happiness, it led to her realizing the relationship was toxic, and he was over controlling of every aspect of her life, which led to their breakup.

>>18404524
>>18404574
>>18404635
Assuming the intended audience is young upper middle class white women you've got the right focus of themes and topics. The main problem, at least from what you've given us here, is that the mother is a far more compelling character than the daughter. Unless you want to change the intended audience you need to give the daughter a more interesting desire than "go to the beach". Take a look at the short story "Lawns" by Mona Simpson. It has similar themes wrt parents, child development, jealousy and relationships, but the story starts right away with an interesting, ironic desire.

A passive protagonist can also work but it's harder because you can't use dramatic tension to unify and propel your story. Instead, you'll have to make use of something like dramatic irony where there's disparities in information between characters. E.g the daughter knows her mother killed her father and might be planning to kill her too (which the step-father doesn't know), while the mother knows that the step-father is in love with the daughter (which the daughter doesn't know), and the step-father knows that the daughter is pregnant with her ex's child (which the mother doesn't know). These disparities, once revealed to the audience, create anticipation for the moment when they are finally resolved and in the meantime provide ample ammunition for engaging scenes. E.g imagine a scene where the mother, in the presence of the step-father, starts nagging the daughter about how she's gained some weight recently.

Still, a work of novel length is difficult to sustain on dramatic irony alone and unless you're confident you can compensate with other talents--gorgeous prose, startlingly accurate character portrayals, precise symbolism etc. -- you should figure out some source of dramatic tension. Especially because your intended audience probably won't care so much about those other talents -- it's not why they read. On the other hand, you can probably get away with it if you change your audience slightly: aim for upper class liberal white girls by making the family upper class, white and liberal.

>>18406180
A and B are really a good fit. The issue is with B's jealousy causing A's efforts to deescalate to fail.
C's only crime is to voice her feelings, and I guess being maybe too daring because she will soon be out of the picture (not totally final but at least in the medium term).
The essence of the point here I guess is to show the flaw in B's character, while not damning her entirely. In fact B helped C before despite being aware of the situation, but as is evident she can't hide that jealous nature.

It's funny that you mention temporary vs long term happiness because B in this case is trading temporary relief for future hardship (something that can be understandable). It's a bit extreme for B to do this, but her character has shown impulsiveness and poor social judgement before. Although in this case it's not toxic like you describe, and the switch in genders is significant because the jealousy is not pathological but in the moment.
I guess that's what happens when you try to write women realistically. Still it's a big can of worms. I can't form a clear picture in my mind to resolve it that won't leave resentment.

>>18404667
>>18404792
I didn't find it comical or sad (except maybe in the sense that I wrote something similar to this when I was in high school and I found it just as awful). Both comedy and tragedy require an expectation that is reversed by the outcome -- i.e irony. A self-pitying and introspective student falling down the stairs only to introspectively feel pity for himself isn't particularly ironic. Suppose the protagonist was instead a 75 year old professor, revered in his field, feared by his students, famous, arrogant, and utterly acerbic -- and he falls the down the stairs in his lecture hall in front of everyone and breaks his hip. Whether you find that funny or tragic is dependent on your taste (and its execution), but you'll at least admit it has more irony than your version.

>>18405645
Children's literature. Examples include the Narnia books, Charlotte's Web, Unfortunate Events series etc.

>>18406343
Those are written to target children

>>18406236
i mentioned about the mother being murderous. What i thought may be an interesting take on things would be the mother in full confidence she won't be caught receiving an envelope regarding a contested will reading to which she needs to attend and with this full confidence, the narrative from the mother's perspective sees her as like this person smarter than anyone else and, as she disregards her daughter, hints at things to her; i thought this would build into a destructive narcissistic personality which, although won't be her undoing, would spell the failure of their relationship to which the daughter effectively loses her innocence/childhood to the realization that her mother killed her father
i thought the points of contention could be the initial relationship between her mother and step father, the mystery of a box in the daughter's closet that she finds (which would include things that aren't specified to the reader but would be brought up sporadically to help show the difference in childhoods building up to an intense jealousy when the mother's hope for her ex's money is solely given to her daughter), the relationship between mother and grandmother, and how the daughter perceives it and tries to navigate her own twisted relationship with her mother
while the i'd assume the daughter as the protagonist, this would only be in the sense to paint a vivid antagonist in the mother which i think would be more useful as the mother is still effectively the child's whole world, the mother is also the mother's own world, and the mother is a part of the grandmother and her new husband (step father's) world which makes her prominence all the more necessary
the beach is something that won't ever be reached by them/the girl for the rest of her young life and is meant to represent the inevitable failings that will become her relationships with her parents
>Assuming the intended audience is young upper middle class white women you've got the right focus of themes and topics.
honestly i wanted to aim it at any group but i see why this group and generalized female university arts/humanities kids will read it; do you think, from a male perspective, it is totally unreadable? i'd like to appeal a lot more but understand if my stories wouldnt

>>18400656
>Any progress on your novels?
Yes, I'm done now. I was never going to become the next Faulkner, the next Nabokov or the next Joyce, but I hid behind the language barrier to avoid criticism for months, maintaining an illusion that was fun to live in while it lasted. I had thought my country's education system to be topmost in the world, but this turned out to be utter bollocks. A child of 18, a person ten years my junior, has a greater vocabulary than I, who had to look up the word “topiary”, and no one likes the expression theory of art anymore, I am likened to a long lost dinosaur.
This will be my final post on /lit/. I've been humiliated and exposed as a fraud. My writing is pretentious, infantile, banal drivel. My observations are dull, my language grade school level. My tenses are mixed up; I use colloquialisms, ellipses and onomatopoeia. I mix tired and trite idioms together to obfuscate their unoriginality with a veneer of irony; I have continued to recite ornate Jewish chimpanzee parables with diminishing returns. The parable seemed very clearly to me to be asking me whether or not the now-grown-adult can choose. I say yes, of course, but that's not my issue.
I was never cut out for writing. I began writing my "book" on January 6th. Since then I've produced 98 thousand words for it. These words are a tide of garbage without value, without insight, without form. The themes of time, space, infinity, memory and pointless duelling are not present in my work. It was never real writing, it was anime and weebshit!
Story arcs, character arcs, narrative arcs, these are all outdated terms. You say what you hear, and only the anime fandom uses the term “arc” anymore. I am a toad! Look how many words I wrote, because apparently literature is bodybuilding and just aimlessly typing will somehow improve my writing. My appetites grew as I wrote, I set a goal of a 100 thousand words when I began, only for the cancerous growth to demand a 137 thousand words soon enough to be completed, and still I don't even know what genre it is that I'm writing. Is it autofiction? A comedy? A picaresque? Am I merely shitposting edgelord-triggering diarrhea in neo-emo gothic revivalist gestalt?
Regardless, I have failed, and even in my failure I have merely imitated how people who think they write well but write poorly write, and I couldn't even do that well. "Oh I can do that anytime if I wanted to" I thought, but no. I have put down my pen. Never again will my fingers click-clack across the keyboard. No more outlines, no more characters. Goodbye

>>18406143
please, PLEASE replace all of your dialogue tags (exclaimed, cried, ejaculated, etc.) with 'said'
exclamation points already indicate when someone is yelling

>>18406531
>sentence ends in an exclamation mark
>still uses said
"ALL RIGHT BITCH NIGGA DID YOU PUT YOUR NAME IN THE GODDAMN GOBLET OF GODDAMN FIRE?" Dumbledore said calmly.

>>18406537
that you had to throw 'calmly' at the end there shows that even you know, deep down, that you're wrong

I'm about 188k into my book and when I compare what I've got down with what I know still has to be written out I realize it's only like 1/3 or even 1/4 and now I'm thinking it would have to be broken into multiple books for any publisher to probably want to touch it with a ten foot pole not just for approachability but also because you make more money selling three books than one. If there's enough content for it to be broken up I'd expect the first thing any publisher who would even give it the time of day would say is "Yeah first of all we're gonna need you to edit this a bit into three sellable parts with beginnings and conclusions to be roughly self contained books in a trilogy" which is not what it's meant to be.

But then why spend my time worrying about what's unlikely to happen anyhow?

>>18406537
t. doesn't read

>>18406092
>>18406265
This kind of story has been done so many times that it gives a great opportunity to play around with the common expectations that the audience will have going into the story. I'd say what the audience expects most is that A grows disillusioned with B (as does the audience) after being forced to harm C and ends up with C in the end. This would be the typical romance story with C as the misunderstood main character. It's been done by everyone from Tolstoy to Danielle Steel -- which is not to say it cannot be done in afresh. One way is to switch up the types of characters involved or the choice of protagonist. A is often the person with the highest social status and power in such stories (which is why he's so desirable), so perhaps its B who's the most powerful -- and she's also the protagonist. Suppose B is a a super-lawyer, an A-type personality (I believe they're called "gunners" in law school parlance) who is in love with a junior associate, A. C is a rich and powerful client of B's firm who also falls in love with A. Then you have the makings of a powerful tragedy. Or you might consider the story from A's perspective but in that case you risk alienating your intended audience (which is probably young women) and you'll need to give A strong desires to make him more proactive.

The other option is to take that expectation, acknowledge it (in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way) and then reverse it. Look at Billy Wilder's movie Witness for the Prosecution (or the book by Agatha Christie it was based on) for a good example of how to do this. Perhaps A and B end up together in the end but both are miserable (another tragedy). Or perhaps B learns the error of her ways and loses A but becomes better for it (this one has the greatest potential for pathos). Or A and B get their happy ending at the expense of C (the hardest to pull off by far).

>>18406409
I misread your post, sorry. Family-friendly is probably close but I guess you're looking for a specific genre. As far as I know children's literature is the closest to what you're describing that you would also find as a category in a library or bookstore.

>>18406573
>I'm about 188k into my book and when I compare what I've got down with what I know still has to be written out I realize it's only like 1/3 or even 1/4 and now I'm thinking it would have to be broken into multiple books for any publisher to probably want to touch it with a ten foot pole not just for approachability but also because you make more money selling three books than one
If the book is written like this then some good editing would shave off 10s of thousands of words.

>>18406573
>188k
Dude how?

>>18406496
Men generally aren't as interested in reading about relationships as women are. (especially that between mother and daughter which is as alien to them as the experience of menstruation) One way to interest them might be to present the perspective of the step-father but this may destroy the focus of your story. If you chase two rabbits...

Other comments: don't present a mystery box to the reader if you're not going to open it. There are few things that piss an audience off more. Consider it a corollary of Chekov's gun.

Also, the more you write about this story, about the mother and the daughter, the more it seems to me that the daughter is altogether too passive to serve as the protagonist of a novel -- and the dramatic irony generated by the differences in relationship between grandmother and mother and mother and daughter -- unless all these characters can directly interact -- won't be very powerful because its all backstory. You can mitigate this by the use of flashbacks, but that technique has its own dangers.

You want the mother to be the antagonist but what exactly does the daughter want which the mother is in opposition to? Reconciliation? Forgiveness? The money in the will? Right now I'm not sure your story appeals to anyone, male or female. How are you going to make the daughter empathetic to the audience -- without leaning on the mother's abuse? In a word: why should I care? Why should I invest hours of my life reading this girls story if as you say, her "whole world is her mother"? I'm better off reading the mother's story in that case. And yes, I do see that this is partly in the tradition of a bildungsroman but the protagonist must be strongly motivated even so -- even more so. Especially because what you're writing appears to be a tragedy which is far less popular in modern days. If what the daughter wants more than life itself is to forgive and reconcile with her mother but then she finds out that her mother killed her beloved father, then you have something. Will she still be able to forgive her or not? That's a real point of contention. Simple contrast between relationships is not.

>>18406588
To answer your assumptions, in this case it's B who has the highest social status. Pretty much a prodigy and naturally liked.
A is the main character with B as the deuteragonist, and there is no realistic doubt about them ending up together. And while your lawyer analogy is appreciated you have the genders mixed up and it doesn't seem to be too useful. There is no apparent power-differential as they are all in the same hierarchical situation.

>>18406636
Not pages.

>>18406673
words is still insane. I struggle to hit 10k

>>18406684
newfag
>>18406573
188k is impressive though. keep up the good work anon
how long has it taken you?

>>18406658
as i said that she is her whole world, she wants acceptance (initially) and wishes to hold onto this past life instead of moving away for school (boarding school) but as, if you think of it like a dumb detective and a smart criminal, as she slowly starts being fed all these clues, she becomes alienated from this world and pushes her into a more depressive state (from the initial positive lifestyle (as many kids often have); i want to basically make the girl character affected so much by parents that personality goes from one thing to the opposite and this conflicts with whats in her mind but it effectively gets forced on her through small reflections building up to the final reveal (which is also why the mother wishes to kill her and herself for realizing that her own narcissism -- spoonfeeding this info because she believes she's too smart for this girl -- she has ruined her daughter from the thing that she did love to something that hates her)
>You can mitigate this by the use of flashbacks, but that technique has its own dangers.
since this will be a stream-of-consciousness style, i thought it would be ok to delve back and forth with each new thought presenting a new branch on this journey
>Men generally aren't as interested in reading about relationships as women are
true, i probably shouldnt keep to that hope too much
>Other comments: don't present a mystery box to the reader if you're not going to open it.
ok! i was thinking of using a second book set 15 years on with this box as an important part but i guess leaving it unopened wouldn't be the grand thing im assuming

>>18406669
I don't think I mixed up the genders. B is female. A is male. C is female. That's the whole reason it would be fresh, because A, the male, who is usually in the position of power in such stories, is in fact in the lowest position of power. I also don't think you understood at all what I was trying to say. I wasn't assuming anything about A,B or C (besides their gender, of course). I was giving you examples of how you might put a fresh spin on an old yarn. You asked what angles you might explore with regards to A and B's relationship and I listed some plots that I thought might be interesting in that regard.

Based on what you've written so far about A, B and C (especially the fact that B appears to be of the Sue family) it seems to be falling exactly into the kind of story that your reader has likely already read before. I suggest you reconsider some aspect of your characters or plot or risk boring your reader.

So Royal Road has added a new, experimental voting system/ranking to append/replace the existing rating system, that gives its users an incentive to shill even more relentlessly than ever before for the chance to get publicity, fame, and welfare bucks, and it's all so tiresome Jesus

>>18406756
you can write a bot that mass posts and then notifies you when someone responds to make it an easier way

>>18406714
I feel you might be playing with too many handicaps. How many novels have written before this one (not published, just written)? Any shorter works? Something of this complexity is probably better saved until you've written a few more classically structured novels first so you understand the rules you're breaking and why.

>>18406669
>>18406731
>it seems to be falling exactly into the kind of story that your reader has likely already read before.
Actually I take this back. Re-reading your earlier post, I see that you've chosen A's point of view and that A and B actually end up together. This is probably the hardest to write of all the possibilities (unless you meant the ending to be tragic). I wouldn't attempt this unless you're absolutely sure you can make the audience empathize with B and can make A proactive without destroying the structure of the story.

>>18406143
A brilliant parody. Bravo.

>>18406777
too many handicaps? im currently going for a masters in creative writing if that means anything (hope to be accepted).
i've written a few but most remain unfinished. im really into modernism so thats probably why im trying to write like this, just read all of woolf, some of joyce, pound, faulkner, etc i think im just super low esteem so am worried honestly as i really like this idea

>fantasy story comes out
>want to write fantasy
>pretentious novel comes out
>want to write something pretentious, forget the fantasy or try to morph the tone to compensate
>action thriller comes out
>horror comes out

How do I stop being such an ADD-addled fuck and learn to stay focused on stories I started even after encountering some new stimulus?

>>18406886
Wow that's a very interesting and unique situation you have yourself in, anon. What do you think the solution to the extremly difficult and arduous problem is?

>>18406897
>What do you think
I don't.

>>18406904
based

>>18406904
Huh, wow, well, how do you think not thinking about it will solve your troublesome and very difficult special and unique problem, Anon?

>>18406929
Seriously, what is the solution? I feel like I'm asking a legitimate question here. I've been trapped for years in an endless torrent of writer's block because I get overwhelmed by stimulation and never get anywhere with any of the stories I penned out.

>>18406935
What happens when you need to finish something but don't want to finish it, anon? Do you normally start cooking dinner but half way through get bored and distracted by the fact you could be cooking something else? Do you like to cook three dishes at the same time? Do you rotate every night of the week in a different style? Do you let other people test your food to see what food you are best at cooking? Did you go to culinary school to learn the fundamentals? Do you ever fast?

I've been up for about more than 24 hours now on a writing spree. HOW do I maintain this high? I don't want to lose inspiration when I fall asleep.

>>18406950
What's with the food analogy? I'm trying to write a serial here.

>>18406950
anon stop, it's either bait or a legitimate retard
>>18406955
buy a self help book. all you're good for is turning your labor into someone else's profit

>>18406955
Analogies are good for removing yourself from the contextual modes of thinking regarding something in particular. It is a methodological examination of your attitude when applied to something else and taking it to the same extremes of opinion and taste as you are currently taking your writing in order to tell you how fucking retarded you are, but it looks like it didn't work.

>>18406964
>buy a self help book
I have no money.

>>18406967
Do you have anything to actually say or are you going to continue to insult me instead of offering legitimate advice for overcoming the issue I'm having?

another poem done,
the idea is kinda stolen but I don't care next

>>18406975
If you can't extrapolate from my post about food a way to discuss your ADHD then I guess I'm just going to have to keep insulting you. You either need to be put on MEDS or you need to fix your deep-fried zoomer ESL brain by consooming less and creating/meditating more. We could discuss the idea of a rotating schedule for writing multiple stories at the same time, but you don't want to here that. I could say just stick with the best one, but then you'll get bored and don't want to hear that. I could say that you will never be a writer and while you will agree with me, your adhd will not accept it and you'll go read some footnotes from Infinite Jest and suddenly want to make a thousand page book about Shuttlecocks. I don't know what the particular solution to your problem is because I lack the context of BEING YOU. So again, tell me anon, what do YOU think the problem is?

>>18407000
>If you can't extrapolate from my post about food a way to discuss your ADHD
Because it's not remotely the same process, you fucking retard. Who the hell are you to talk about analogies when you can't make a single decent one? I could make a better one to describe my own situation, you dumbass. Here, I'll do it:

A chef wants to make a wide variety of dishes. He starts off with an elaborate italian dish composed of pastas, breads, and all matter of spices.

It starts off well. He's got some basic pasta dish prepared, he's got some potential in the area. But it's not close to done, it's not close to what he saw, but he'll work on it more later.

But then he tastes a different dish, some German dish heavy on meat. It's wonderful, he has to make it. So he does, but it's still not remotely the same level.

Then, he tastes a different dish, some sweet dessert that tastes like swimming in an ocean of cream. How in the world did they make that? He's got to know, so he abandons all of his progress on learning how to make the previous two dishes in favor of the new dish.

In the end, the chef has only grasped the basic ideas behind the previous dishes, and at this point he'd probably need to learn them from scratch.

And there we go, once again I wandered off from doing what I wanted to do in favor of doing something else, which was making a crappy analogy post on /lit/! Thanks, asshole!
>you don't want to here that
>here
And here you were throwing out the ESL insult. Projection much?

>rotating schedule
Why not talk about that instead of insulting me and providing nonsensical analogies that don't work?

>just stick with the best one
But all of them are on the same level.


>what do YOU think the problem is?
I told you, straight up:
>because I get overwhelmed by stimulation
You ignored that. You weren't able to understand that. You didn't make an effort to.

>>18407047
too verbose, you sound like a fag, its over, stop writing

>>18407047
>WAHHHH SPOONFEED ME, THE WORLD OWES ME THEIR EFFORTS WHEN IM UNWILLING TO WORK AND THINK FOR MYSELF
the answer is don't be such a lazy fuck you piece of shit

>>18407052
>too verbose
no need to compliment me like that, shit's laconic as fuck and we both know it
thanks for trying to make me feel good though
>>18407054
>don't be such a lazy fuck
That's an interesting way of viewing it, care to explain?

>>18406684
Sub-10k is fine if that's all the story that needs to be told. I used to write short stories all the time that wouldn't even hit five pages sometimes.

>>18406699
It's been probs 2 years plugging into it on and off I think. The brunt of it was just done in university classes where we had to show up but there was no value to being in the lecture hall so I'd sit in the back typing into it on my laptop or jotting it in a notebook and transcribing later. That last year of the uni course was a real godsend to getting things rolling.

>>18407047
You don’t get overwhelmed by stimulation you just lack the fortitude to stick with something when it becomes boring or uncomfortable. You’re the type that buys a juicer and uses it twice before moving on. The thing with food is that you need to finish and serve it while it’s hot or else your guests won’t come back for dinner again. Finish things. Stop expanding the scope of all your stupid little projects and start finishing things. Turn it into a short story so you can finish it and move on. You think you’re a chef but you’re actually just a line cook daydreaming about being a baker.

>>18407077
>writing fiction during lectures
incredibly based anon, wish you the best

>>18406975
Think of it like a pizza, anon. I could either cut it into reasonable slices, or I could shove the entire thing into your mouth, scalding hot cheese and all.

>>18407082
>You don’t get overwhelmed by stimulation
I do. Stimulation comes in many forms. For example, let's say someone showed a shocking or pornographic image to you, or you happened to come across it for some reason. How would you react to it? Would you be able to continue the story as planned that day, or would it shift your direction to one degree or another? Would it affect the way that you perceive your characters? Would it make you reconsider the basis of the plot? These, and more, are ways that stimulation can overwhelm someone.

>Turn it into a short story so you can finish it and move on
I've tried that and it doesn't work. Novels and short stories are very different beasts. Each is designed and presented in a different way. You should already know this as a writer.

>You think you’re a chef but you’re actually just a line cook daydreaming about being a baker.
No, I don't. Because I'm not a chef, I'm a writer. Take your food analogies and shove it in your piehole, they're worthless and mocked for a reason.

>>18406955
Think of the analogy as putting mayo on your sandwich, it makes it easier to swallow the idea.

>>18407142
Is that why people put mayo on their sandwiches?

>>18407132
>Getting filtered by a food analogy
You sound like you swallowed a lemon

>>18407132
you're either literally retarded and a disabled waste of grey matter completely incapable of ever writing or a lazy fuck making excuses
either way there's nothing anyone can tell you that'll magically fix your problems. see a doctor or fuck off

>>18406975
No one is insulting you anon, he's just trying to give you advice piecemeal. Think about it, would you rather a bowl of cereal or have an entire stalk of wheat shoved up your anus?

>>18406954
Coffee

>>18407132
Don't have a cow man.
Patience and an even temperament is key here. It's sort of like boiling a frog. Were you to toss it into steaming water, it is sure to leap out. But were you to allow it to get acclimated, you would have more success in creating a succulent dish.

>>18407152
<getting filtered by a food analogy being mocked
come up with actual advice you il/lit/erate or shut up
>>18407161
>see a doctor
already did
doesn't help

>>18407132
>you happen to see a Pornographic image without planning to
> this overwhelms you so much, it derails your entire work for the rest of the day and you begin to reconsider the basis of the plot you are working on

Imagine being this weak

>>18407183
He meant a dietitian.

>>18407183
But anon, actual advice is like grandma's turkey, it takes time and love, and effort. Shooting you down is like getting a cheeseburger at the drive-through, quick easy and satisfying.

>>18407190
>Imagine being this weak
I don't need to
please help me become stronger

>>18407198
baste

>>18406886
Get a job.

>>18407202
Try broccoli, chicken breasts, and organic rice.

No analogy just eat it.

So how do you handle intrusive thoughts?

>>18407231
I take a diuretic

>>18407231
incorporate them
there's no such thing as an intrusive thought

>>18407242
you've never had one

>>18407247
Just because I've never eaten durian doesn't mean I can't imagine what it's like to eat it.

>>18407247
yes because we weren't born in the slave caste
off to mcdonalds lettuce boy, someone has to fund those of us with the vast mental strength and force of will to type words for longer than 5 minutes

>>18407258
irrelevant
>>18407260
>yes
thanks for admitting it
>off to mcdonalds lettuce boy
sounds good, ladies first

>>18407132
>For example, let's say someone showed a shocking or pornographic image to you, or you happened to come across it for some reason.
I can actually relate to this problem a little bit
the only solution is to avoid social media as much as possible.
Similarly, the solution to the problem in your initial post is to avoid all media that didn't directly inspire what your working on. Several writers across several different mediums do exactly that.

>>18407247
wrong
your aversion to the thought is what makes it intrusive, not the thought itself
you are the one who came up with it. your brain is not haunted or possessed. it is yours, and its thoughts are your thoughts
you are acceptable, so accept yourself and accept your thoughts

>>18407279
>oh you aren't a subhuman slave?
>heh, gotcha
you will never be free of your disability. you will never write a book. the best you can hope for is finding a prescription that will make it easier to get to work everyday
get a job and fund your betters

>>18407286
Damn. Finally, some real non-meme advice, this is what I was hoping to see. Sadly, it sounds like my problem is as bad as I feared.
>Several writers across several different mediums do exactly that
Do you know their names?

>>18407288
>wrong
you've never had one
>>18407300
>you will never write a book
but I have
a good one, now that's a different story
but you set yourself up for that one
>get a job and fund your betters
practice what you preach

>>18407310
>I can't write because I'm too retarded to do so much as think
>the very act of existing and experiencing stimuli completely removes all of my will to write
>but I've finished a book
okay, then what's the problem. just write

>>18407303
>Do you know their names?
unfortunately I'm having trouble retracing where I found that information.

>>18407320
did you miss the chef analogy?
>what's the problem
oh right, you didn't read anything, you're shitposting

>>18407342
slave

>>18407310
your insistence that I don't know what I'm talking about parallels your insistence that your thoughts are intrusive
yes I have had "intrusive thoughts" or at least that's how my psychologist referred to them, and accepting them as a part of my psyche is how I dealt with them. part of accepting them was discarding the language that labeled them as pathological.
regardless of whether or not you take my advice, you will have an easier time dealing with this if you stop gatekeeping your problem. you are not special, and your problem is not special, so you can stop repeating yourself: "nuh uh that's not REAL intrusive thought"

>>18407338
Well, if nothing comes to mind, I'd like to ask something else.
>I can actually relate to this problem a little bit
Could you tell about this? Like, how do you personally handle it?

>>18407342
>I can’t finish any dishes!
>I’ve finished dishes before, I don’t know what you’re talking about!
Cope is the best spice.

>>18407351
it's true, you don't know what i'm talking about, and it shows because you think your "intrusive thoughts" are the same as mine
i can safely say that they aren't

>>18407361
>I can't finish any dishes
Where did I say that?

>>18407367
and I can safely say you will continue to struggle because you can't accept someone else might have found a way to cope with your problem.
if it's impossible for someone else to solve, how will it ever be possible for you to solve?

How do you write a children's series that ages with the reader? I wanna do something to the effect of harry potter, but the story continues into more and more adult themes. We already had the pipe send millennials from harry potter to the much darker and edgier asoiaf, but I would like to do it in a single series. Basically going from "children being swept away on a magical journey" to "all of the main characters are child soldiers, what the fuck. And depraved shit like the princess was just rescued from a kidnapping, had her teeth ripped out and is now mindbroken to the point where she'll get on her knees, open her mouth and stick out her tongue whenever someone talks about pissing"

The actual degrees of edge may vary though because I've been kind of having a change in worldview on life and I'm starting to want the story to have a more positive, anti-nihilist outlook.

>>18407390
plot with whimsy, write with purpose

>>18407388
>you can't accept someone else might have found a way to cope with your problem
guess again

Today I finished chapter 2 out of 27
I'm gonna be so fucking rich, witness me

>>18407353
once an image burns itself into the front of my mind it's hard for me to let it go, so, as I mentioned, I do my best to not let that happen in the first place by abstaining from certain sites/boards and avoiding porn altogether. The moment a piece of media I'm engaged starts occupying too much of my mental energy, I force myself to shut it off or I leave the room, even if I'm not finished.
I also force myself to stop thinking about other stories I want to work on, since they can be equally as distracting and intrusive.
I haven't 'won' yet. I'm more productive than I used to be, but I still haven't finished anything besides a few short stories.

>>18407390
>How do I make a children's series that eventually becomes a BDSM novel?

>>18407390
>spoiler
that's ironically more juvenile than any children's book I've ever heard of.

>>18407425
Ouch. I guess I'm on the right track with my own methods of coping. Hope you're able to overcome it in your own way and get to write more soon.

>>18407404
>guess again
Okay, here's my next guess
You didn't actually want advice, you're just here to moan.

>>18407494
Wrong again. Look above, you can see an actual conversation.

>>18407499
Yes, a conversation that consists of dozens of posts where you cried that the advice is just worthless memes and groaned about your inability to understand basic analogies. I'm impressed the advice-giver had the patience to continue trying; I personally only have six replies' worth, after which I give up and call you an attention-whoring faggot. If you resisted your intrusive thoughts with half as much vigor as you resist answers, you wouldn't be troubled by them at all.

>>18407559
Just ignore him already.

>>18407559
Don't be so mean anon, the other anon just ate way too much and can't fit anything else. He's stuffed.

>>18407559
By look above, I meant the post right above your own, you simpleton. Not the barrage of memes, did you actually think any of that was real advice? Are you being serious right now? Fuck off either way.

>>18407559
/wg/ has too many do-gooders. thread long conversations trying to beat basic ideas into the heads of obstinate retards is way to common
DO NOT reply to dumbfucks who want to be spoon fed. they don't want help, they want attention and validation

>>18407575
What about dumbfucks who are spouting obvious bad advice? Should they be ignored or called out?

>>18406807
Meaning you're putting too many constraints on yourself. Passive protagonist. Stream-of-consciousness. No dramatic tension. Every decision you've made is slicing the number of potential readers in half. Which is fine if you want to write only for the aforementioned upper class white liberal women crowd (who are the only people that read serious literature these days anyway) but be aware that's what you're doing. And also be aware that you are competing with all the writers you mentioned -- plus all the ones that are attempting the same thing (and have attempted and have published) what you are. You had better be at least as good as them or doing something that they've never done before.

Also, if you're doing an MFA, I hope you have a scholarship or grant. Bear in mind the incentives of your instructors and your university. It isn't to make you a better writer, it's to keep you in the program so you can continue to pay them tuition. That's not to say it can't be valuable -- the connections to publishers alone are worth the price of admission -- but good writers get more from MFA programs than writers who are trying to get good.

And nothing bad will happen if you sit on the idea, it will only ferment and get better. I again advise you finish a novel or two first (anyone can start a novel; professionals finish) with more standard structures and plots. If you love the idea as much as you say, you should be willing to defer it until you have the skills to execute it flawlessly. The moment you write it down, it's cast and you'll find it hard to change anything.

Reminder: Whenever that one guy says "only animefags are writing" in this thread, don't call him an animefag. Call him a VTuber fanfictionfag, because that's what he actually is. You can see him right now in /vt/'s fanfiction thread espousing the same shit.

>>18407581
You could obviously try to call me out but I'll then spend all day going on long tirades justifying every point and objective my posts were trying to accomplish. I highly doubt you want to join me in the clean plate club.

>>18407599
only animefags are writing

>>18407599
only animefags are writing

>>18407599
only fags are writing anime

>>18407599
I wish JK-Sama was a cute anime girl

>>18407614
>I'll then spend all day going on long tirades justifying every point and objective my posts were trying to accomplish
poorly

>>18407649
He’s busy writing his serial web novel. So I don’t think he’ll be coming here for a while. He even updated yesterday.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes/chapter/694594/chapter-84-toscana-requiem-for-a-slight-detour

Wished we have more of him here than the pseuds.

>>18407595
regarding the passive protagonist focus, is there any literature that you'd recommend that would help me with this? I'm going to want her to become more pro-active as the story develops but it'll be quite slow
>Also, if you're doing an MFA, I hope you have a scholarship or grant.
is this what you recommend? i'm not sure whether my writing is actually good (i've been told its good but i feel it is nowhere near where i want it to be hence the learning) and i presumed from hearing first hand knowledge from friends that it can really enhance your writing if you take a course and work seriously
>And nothing bad will happen if you sit on the idea, it will only ferment and get better.
im not adverse to changing it once its written. i have written quite a bit of already but know that editing changes things and its not terrible for me to see it changed

>>18407672
I wish I was as cool and productive as him...
Wait, I'll take half of it
a third
I'm not greedy, I swear

>>18407678
My advice would be to find a good writing group first, one with serious writers, and use it to workshop pieces of your novel before you dump tens of thousands of dollars in an MFA program where you'll basically end up doing the same thing. I would definitely not go for an MFA unless I'm already a good writer, preferably a published writer, at the very least a writer with a completed novel or two under my belt (or an equivalent word count of completed short stories).

As for literature with passive protagonists, the first one that comes to mind is The Great Gatsby. Another is The Good Soldier (although there's a lot of cleverness at play with the concept). These are male-centric stories and therefore of limited utility but you can at least learn how they use dramatic irony to maintain reader interest. I'm sure you can find others. In fact, you should be the one reassuring me that passive protagonists can work, listing all the novels that you've studied which have them.

Anyway, if you have most of the novel written already, I'm not sure what we're discussing. Either post an excerpt so we can see what you're talking about or just finish the novel and send it out for publication. You'll know soon enough if people are interested. As for myself, a lower middle class conservative immigrant male in his 20s, I'm the exact opposite of your intended audience. You need feedback from the audience you're writing for (better if you're part of that audience).

>>18407641
Based and switcheroopilled.

>>18407959
>My advice would be to find a good writing group first, one with serious writers
So, /wg/?

Why, yes, I do listen to electronic music while writing my great RR gothic social critique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtT5hJqtvOY

Valentin Quesada was an English salesman, but a native of Spain. When he was barely three years old, his parents had sent him to live with a distant uncle in Manchester. There he had grown up among the children of Mister Quester, his uncle, and when he was old enough, had been apprenticed to the same. At eighteen he enjoyed his complete confidence, earned enough money to sweeten his parents' late years, and was a popular member of society. His existence would have been perfect, had it not been for his excessive love of money. The youth he had spent with his uncle, in merchant houses and banks and other establishments that did not place the greatest value on philanthropy, had not passed him by without leaving a trace. For a pretty penny, he was willing to blur the rules of decency and morality. Not that he became a murderer for the sake of money - fortunately he didn't go that far - but far enough to have come into contact with the law on one or two occasions. This love of money, not to say greed for money, is the subject of this story. It almost cost him his head, and though he escaped with his life, he had to pay a high price for it.

It was late autumn. The few trees that had somewhat brightened the gray, dreary appearance of Manchester, the famous factory town, stood lifeless in the dusty alleys. The black smoke of the factories mixed with the already dirty, brown colors of the sky. It was, in a word, a bleak time. Quesada had been sitting in his office since the early hours of the morning, poring over a stack of stocks that he planned to invest profitably the next day.

>>18407434
>>18407444
Like I said, I'm pulling back on the edge from where I was originally. But I am starting to think making a "Female Theon/Reek" is not going to be socially acceptable in the first place. At first, I wanted her ruined state to be somewhat vague and implied, but in other moments she does actions that outright disgust the reader, like the EoE hospital scene. It's not supposed to be arousing to anyone. So maybe subtlety is key.

As for actually writing, I'm guessing it's just making the writing structure deeper with each progressive story, as the characters grow older, and the plots grow with increasing complexity.

>>18408096
It's feast or famine around here.

If you work hard and write consistently, one day you may be as successful as F Gardner

>>18408158
>Why, yes, I do listen to electronic music while writing my great RR gothic social critique.
Is that the secret to success? Listen to music that's way off field from your intended genre?

>>18408232

>>18408234
I only listen to music like Fucking werewolf asso or we are magonia because it's more about my anxiety having a soundtrack then for me to enjoy having something nice on in the background.

>>18408234
>Listen to music that's way off field from your intended genre?
No, it's all about energetic electronic music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8YDeY_evoc

>>18408379
This does not produce enough anxiety. Give me something harder.

I've posted this intro to my short story here before, but I'm really trying to get it right. If anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate it.

>>18408435
>"My animal is getting tired, Caelan." the taller man said
I hear him coming...

>>18408435
Am I retarded or should there be a comma after "destination in mind"?

>>18408459
oh no no no

>>18408459
When I post my story on the next thread, I'm going to deliberately my dialogue wrong to see if he notices

>>18408459
>I hear him coming...
Thanks for reading anon, but I honestly don't know what you mean by this.
>>18408531
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's necessary to have one.

>>18408736
>but I honestly don't know what you mean by this.

>>18406886
Greetings fellow lizard-brain!
The answer: write short stories! Perfect for those of us towards the bottom of the evolutionary ladder with goldfish-like attention spans. That being said, I did manage to finish a short novel manuscript after a couple years of life on/off writing.

>>18406954
Coffee and nicotine? Maybe do some jumping jacks?

This makes me sad. A normal peasant wouldn't use a sword, wouldn't have a greatsword the size of his body, wouldn't have a back scabbard, a thin girl wouldn't have a giant bow, rapiers are not for twinks, they'd all be using boring spears. What's even the point of standard medieval fantasy novels

https://www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/nu8guk/_/

>>18408809
If I really wanted to go on a writing binge I'd fast for 3 days, only drink water and coffee, and chain smoke the gaps in-between. When your body goes into ketosis you only sleep like 4-6 hours anyway.

How do I focus on writing when I have a loud, obnoxious family that doesn't understand the value of leaving someone alone? Get a job and save for a car?

>>18408812
>What's even the point of standard medieval fantasy novels
to poorly immitate better authors like Lord Dunsany and Eddison

>>18408732
>deliberately my dialogue
what

>>18408855
make it a part of your schedule to go to your local library to write.

>>18408855
Buy noise canceling headphones.
Actually talk to them and ask them to respect a writing schedule you make up.
Get a car and go hang out at ihop
Move.
adapt to your environment and only write in 20 minute spurts

>>18408879
>local library
no good, they have one of those open floor plans where there's no privacy allowed
>>18408882
>Buy noise canceling headphones
any recs? I have some but they only do so much

>>18408889
No, because I am an adult and talk through my problems with the people I live with.

>>18408784
>>18408711
>>18408459
Kek, just saw what you meant. Thought I proofread it perfectly, but I guess I missed that.

>>18408893
Lucky you have people who are willing to compromise.

Thinking about commissioning an artist to draw one of my characters. My initial mental image of this character was based on his style.

>>18408862
I meant deliberately *write my dialogue

>>18402881
>>18406042
Thank you! Really, from the bottom of my heart I hope everyone here finds success. That would make me happy.
>>18407599
I should probably respond to this for posterity. I only post on lit at the moment and even then there's going to be big time gaps because the dynamic IP at work is only available to pass users at the moment which means I can only participate when I'm at home. When I'm at home it rolls into creative time.
My fan fiction is more work than play. When I do it I attach my pen name basically saying if you liked my work here, please check out my novels. I wouldn't get anything from participating on that board. On top of that because of my very limited free time I don't really know the streamer's characters very well. I just don't have time to really dig into it all. I did happen to get a real life crush on one of the voice actors for those characters though so that was a charming period. I can't even watch that one anymore due to time constraints though so eh.
Just call me Deathanon/Deathauthoranon like I normally get called.
At least this new group doesn't think I'm a girl anymore so that's nice.
(Plus I lived in Japan as a kid so I'm always going to be amiable towards Japanese people and their art. They're nice!)

>>18409460
Anon, just ignore that pseud. He doesn’t write, doesn’t contribute to these threads and constantly tries to derail them because he can’t write. Just ignore him.

>>18409489
So how's your Lamy transformation fanfic coming along?

>>18409460
>making schizophrenic pseud seethe because you're selling books
I don't respect your writing but I respect your results and mentality
gl weeb

>>18409554
>Getting mad that someone is writing a story
I think its time to take your meds, my schizo pseud. Let the writer write in peace.

>>18409561
Please tell me why you think I'm a pseud so I can laugh at you.

>>18409460
>Aradia
Could have at least picked a good girl man. Nepeta or something, baka

>>18409247
I think you should do it. Another writer, JK-Sama does the same thing in his story and he’s successful.

>>18408812
I heard a fantasy author I enjoyed, John Roberts, say romanticism always trumps realism in fantasy. I don’t know if I’d say always, but it might be a good policy to follow.
>>18408855
If you talked to your family and didn’t get anywhere then the next best solution is to just learn to work through the noise. It’s tough, but you can do it.
>>18409460
Congrats on getting the book out anon! No matter what happens you can take pride on leaving some literary mark on the world.

>>18409460
What’s the name of your book so I can buy it in support?

>>18409603
Eheh. Sorry. I do have a thing for gallows humor you know.
>>18409557
>>18409614
Thank you guys. Before COVID hit I went to my local library to see if they would put my works on their shelves but due to staffing issues everything has been on hiatus. Fingers crossed I'll entertain a lot of people.
>>18409670
Unfortunately I can't advertise myself but check the screenies I post every once in a while to show progress! There's often breadcrumbs that you can google to find my work. I mean...I'm not smart enough to do something like that. I'm very silly you know. All these absentminded mistakes.
I will say all of my work is related to death and the afterlife though in the Fantasy genre with elements related to mythology (and one site lists it as horror for some reason). If you do put the puzzle pieces together, I hope you enjoy the journey!

>>18409721
I thought people here could post their links to their stories?

Why you write, what's the appeal? Why should one write.

>>18409754
>Needing a reason to write in the first place.
NGMI.

>>18409754
For fun

>>18407672
>>18407723
>>18409610
Aww, thanks for the support you guys.

>>18409754
I write what I'd want to read.

>>18409758
Just curiosity. I'm more of a consumer of knowledge than a creator. I like to observe and study.

>>18409733
Mine are on market and for sale. If I go around saying lookie lookie, well, it's a bit different.
...but you know...mayyyyybe you guys might like some fanfiction I did a long time ago. It's free for everyone to enjoy after all.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/130200/fanfiction-a-spirit-unbound#latest

>have lines and partial scenes stuck in my head that I want to write down
>can't figure out a way to actually build something around them to make them coherent or give them their proper imapct

>>18406143
Horrible formatting. Could not follow what was going on. Please break up paragraphs based on speakers/actions for better clarity.

>>18409805
Just write them down, desu. Plain and simple. If you get them out of your head you can always use them as springboards later. You might even accidentally add on to them while you are writing which will solve your problem by giving context and such.

>>18409841
You only think that because you're a pseud. Descriptivism over prescriptivism. Animefags are the only ones writing ITT.

>>18409794
I forgot homestuck existed. I miss generalivan and fucking with homosucks at cons.

>>18409863
insecure larp
nobody cares about animefags as much as you do
>>18409841
correct advice. write normally

>>18409863
This is just pathetic at this point.

>>18409770
Keep on writing, JK-Sama, you're an inspiration to us all.

>>18409794
Does Amazon even accept fanfics as stories not related to the original series? I thought they clamp down on that?

>>18409870
It was so geeky but being there was so amazing. You'd go from silly mspaint doodles to full videos with really high production quality, then back to normal. The fact it sticks with us shows how good of a storyteller Andrew was, even if not everyone was keen on the ending.
>>18409915
Ah. Sorry, I might have worded that oddly. My novels and my fanfiction are two different things, I just share the pen name so all the works are easy to find. When I get into a fandom the urge to write hits and well. It happens.

>>18409932
Ah, thanks for clarifying. So gathering a fandom then self-publishing is the most secure way of making it?

>>18409932
Cliffhanger endings will always be derided, no matter what.

>>18409936
Well I still work a full time job and work the stock market on top of doing my writing. Am I well off compared to my peers? Yes. Is my writing a money pit sometimes? Also yes.
I hate to say it but you know how famous people or presidents write books and then announce it on air and then their fans buy a copy and probably don't read it? It's very viable.
I'm doing it hard mode though. I'm hiding in the shadows writing my books and hoping for the best.
It would be cool one day to get popular and be able to write full time though.

>>18409967
Having a job as a fallback is smart though? I don’t see how that’s a con?

>>18409967
>It would be cool one day to get popular and be able to write full time though.
Just post on Royal Road. It will help you somewhat.

>>18409970
It's not a con. I'm comfy at the moment and I have health insurance. Not too much to complain about honestly. I just need more hours in a day...maybe 30 hour days? We could do 30 hour days right?
>>18409972
I keep hearing about Royal Road but I write slow (like right now is creative time I'm supposed to be writing right now this second) and I'm exclusive with Amazon right now for my current books. I've got roots. Good roots, but roots nonetheless.

>>18409932
>The fact it sticks with us shows how good of a storyteller Andrew was, even if not everyone was keen on the ending
I thought it faded into obscurity? The only thing I remember about that story is the music.

>>18409848
Look what you made me do.
I'm sorry.
And you should be sorry for saying it was a good idea for me to put this to paper

>>18409994
I’ll read it. It could work as a parody.

>>18409991
>I keep hearing about Royal Road but I write slow (like right now is creative time I'm supposed to be writing right now this second)
You could always create a backlog of chapters? If slowness is your thing.

>>18409994
Made me laugh. So fuck you.

New thread
>>18410006

>>18410005
W-which part made you laugh?

>>18410011
I started chuckling around the wizard powers and Ryan Gosling just sold it to me.

>>18409991
Royal road is low tier trash only and there is no monitization. Stick with Amazon. It makes you look a lot more reputable.

>>18409994
Funny, all I see is "REEE MY BUTT HURTS" for four paragraphs. If you don't want constructive criticism, don't post your work.

>>18406558
I wasn't the one who wrote that though, J.K. Rowling did.

>>18400734
>It became () tiring to listen () that I lowered my head
Write in your own damn language.
Seriously though pretty borning. Make an impact preferably emotional, like:
>She was beautiful, but fuck she was boring, but I didn't care, I wanted her
Or some shit- whatever direction your going.

>>18401102
Pretty snooze. You have decent pace and rythem but the details are boring. Also your character doesn't appeal or the setting. Couldn't you just say
>it was bucketing and I liked it
Or whatever. Read Hemingwicked

>>18401192
>obnoxious rythems
>A dirt road ran out of the forest, between two flat fields, and ended at a cobblestone bridge under which a river ran.
Success. Crongarpsulegpions.

>>18400734
>Or, better yet, if I may ask you all a question: when you think of a hero, who comes to your mi-
>At that point, I became teary-eyed. Of course the first thing that comes to my mind whenever I hear the word "hero" is that famous picture of Hitler wearing a cape as he walks down a flight of stairs. I lowered my head to hide my tears and pretended to scribble down a few notes before doodling swastikas in the margin of my notebook. For a long time, that was all I did as I struggled to ignore the ongoing lecture that served as nothing more than a review session for the previous three years of indoctrination about the holohoax. Not helping matters was (((who))) was giving the speech in the first place. My professor, Jasmine Rosenberg, had a distinctly Jewish way of speaking that made it sound like even unimportant and humorous questions could be related to white supremacy and systemic racism if you thought about it hard enough.
>I couldn't help but frown and I glanced over the rest of my classmates in the indoctrination hall. I'm not the type to assume, but considering the general pale colour of their skin, they were all probably feeling the same as me. A few even ignoring the pilpul altogether to post on /pol/ underneath their desks.

>>18400656
What does /lit/ think of writing poetry using structures that were made for languages other than English?
I.e., writing haiku in English, or writing poetry using Galdralag in English.
Does it work? Does it open up relatively novel means by which an English poet can express themselves? Or does it usually end up missing the mark completely?