/lit/ - Literature

>>18392971
It really saddens me that so many people are incapable of appreciating beautiful writing

>>18392971
Another bugman filtered

>>18392971
No, Kafka is so widely discussed and written about precisely because of the ambiguity in his works. Besides, Kafka simply wrote well with an idiosyncratic voice. I haven't read anything quite like Kafka before or since,

>>18392971
Link or fake. Even Dawkins can't be that much of an idiot.

>>18392997
Oh god no, its real, its his most recent tweet, fucking kill me, I hate 21st century so much, why couldnt I have been born in prehistoric greece, I would prefer dying at the ripe old age of 25 tot his

>>18392997
Not sure if that one is real, but i've seen other tweets of his with a similar attitude and it's mind-boggling

>>18392980
>>18392990
>>18392992
>>18392997
>>18393011
filtered. if you're over the age of 20 and reading fiction for any other purpose than linguistic fluency then you need to grow up (except if you're a woman in which case your retardation is permanent and you'll keep reading YA shit well into your adulthood).

>>18392990
>Bugman gets filtered by story about literal bugman
It's like pottery

>>18392971

If this isn't real, it's an extremely good impression

>>18393029
>linguistic fluency

Imagine trying to LARP as Le Smart Guy on the internet and this is the best you can come up with

>Filtered by Kafka
How fucking old is he? Like 80? This is a rookie mistake.

>>18393029
>filtered. if you're over the age of 20 and reading fiction for any other purpose than linguistic fluency then you need to grow up (except if you're a woman in which case your retardation is permanent and you'll keep reading YA shit well into your adulthood).

>>18392971
Sir, this is a Wendy's

Dawkinsbros we got too cocky

>>18392971
idk maybe cuz its a fun story

It’s pretty simple. Imagine you are turned into a disgusting abomination but your inner self is the same, and how people would react. There’s no trick

>dawkins proving he's a midwit

it's almost as if he needs religion to expand his horizons....

it's about being unloved

These people can’t appreciate anything that can’t comprehend perfectly rationally or which doesn’t propel them into a rabbit hole of Reddit-style jerking off about space ports or something I guess.

>>18393163
>it's about being unloved

Eh... It's about how a guy is turned into a cockroach and all he's really worried about is that he won't be able to make it into work, and what that says about modern society.

>>18392971
>retards in the comments saying he doesn't get it because he's a privileged white male
Twitter should be nuked

>>18393029
>linguistic fluency

>>18393184
>implying it's just a Twitter thing
Have you seen the state of western academia?

>>18392971
>the virgin Dawkins vs the Chad Deleuze
becoming-animal

>>18393134
terrible rebuttal to an even worse tweet

How is Dawkins this consistently retarded

I've never read Kafka and don't know much about the author himself so I can't say much there.

>>18392971

The Metamorphosis is an allegory for being incel.
Really, what else could it be?

>>18393274
Incels didn't exist back then.

>>18392997
It's not unusual for highly specialized academics to be complete brainlets in any other field.

>>18393247
>I've never read Kafka
What dogshit school did you go to?

>>18393293
Why do you think reading Kafka is important?

>>18393285
Kafka was ahead of the curve

>>18393317
Not in that sense.

>>18393163
Its not about being anything, Gregor brought about it himself.

>>18393274
Dawkins is a privileged normie sexhaver who was lucky enough to be born in sexy boomerville time, which means that Kafka's retroactive prediction of inceldom goes above his head.
I bet Dawkins still has sex too. He's like 80 but I bet he's such a clueless normie that he still does it.

>>18393191
>implying contemporary western humanities academia isn't just twitter with extra steps

>>18393307
Because he is the best writer of all time

>>18393332
something something Kierkegaard something something, I can't be bothered to think off a joke, but there is an epic one there waiting to be made

>>18393332
You're retarded.

>>18393307
He's an important part of literary history, and whose works still bear impact today.
There are certain authors that I think should be mandatory to learn about, and Kafka is one of them, especially since The Metamorphosis only takes about a week to read for a normal student.

>>18393341
cope

>>18392971
Why is someone like him allowed to be famous?

>>18393352
he wrote some good science books in like the 70s and the acclaim got to his head and now thinks he's an expert on everything

>>18393344
seethe

But seriously guys, what is the point of that story?
>but the prose
Be serious now. If the story was promoting globohomo LGBT issues you wouldn't give a damn about the prose. Saying its beautifully written or complimenting the prose is the laziest copout of actually explaining why you like it.
Looking at this thread I get the impression that the sole reason why /lit/ likes it is because it's considered part of the canon by the literary establishment and /lit/ is hyperconformist (with few exceptions like butterfly).

>>18393339
>Because he is the best writer of all time
Didn't realize you had read all authors ever.
>>18393343
>He's an important
to you.
>There are certain authors that I think should be mandatory to learn about
cool story.

>>18393352
As long as you don't name the Jew and cooparate with him you're granted fame.

>>18392971
>filtered by a high school level book
Is this the intellectual prowess of fedora tippers?

>>18393373
>to you.
To many, which is why you should read his works.

>>18393373
nice b8

>>18393378
Maybe I will, maybe I won't, but saying you think everyone should read him because you like him is retarded.

>>18393360
>You're not allowed to question things or express your opinions on topics you're not an expert™ on
Who's the real bugman here?

>>18393372
>Dawkins hands typed this post
People like it because it resonates with the alienated 21st century young male. You don't have to be a genius to figure it out

>>18392980
Is it beautiful writing in the original language? The translations I've read of Kafka make his writing out to be rather plain, still enjoyable for the themes and characters, but the prose never felt noteworthy as anything but accentuating the plain, dull reality of a middle class working man

>>18392997
I read the God Delusion and most of his arguments are really juvenile. Some of them even have parentheses the equivalent to "checkmate theists".

>>18393388
I hope Dawkins comes to your house to fix your leaking roof

>>18393373
You need to be at least 18 to post here

>>18393029
Your precious history and philosophy is basically masturbatory fiction, you cuck. At least my fiction has literary merit.

>>18393391
English dullifies the beauty into a gray mass but yes, the prose is good in the original. Not faggy or ornate but elegant and evocative.

>>18393377
"Filtered" is such a meaningless term. It expresses nothing beyond the fact that he has an opinion about the book that you disagree with. With someone as cultured and well-read as you are, one would expect you would be able to actually articulate your disagreement and answer his questions.
>>18393390
How so? This would be the last book I'd consider when talking about works which resonate with alienated young males. Do you resonate with being a bug man?
>>18393393
Which arguments? Give an example.

>>18393444
>How so? This would be the last book I'd consider when talking about works which resonate with alienated young males. Do you resonate with being a bug man?
How the fuck can you be so literal-minded? It's about an incel wagecuck who becomes so alienated from society that even his own family rejects him. Instead they're more concerned with finding his roastie sister a chad to fuck.

>>18393453
>when you view literature through 4chan meme lenses
You're equally as pathetic as Dawkins.

>>18393453
Is that what makes it a great work of literature?

>>18393453
>unironically using the word incel
Go back to twitter

>>18393463
Those are lenses based in facts and statistics surrounding the red/black pill. It's not just a meme lens. I suggest you take a look at
https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill

>>18393463
memes are memes because they reflect real life accurately
>>18393470
i'm not using it as an insult, as twittertards are wont to do

>>18393470
What's wrong with using the word incel? It's a portmanteau for involuntarily celibate. A good shorthand, I'd say.

>>18393482
it's been ruined by normies and women who just use it as a insult meant to silence and ostracize the receiver

>>18393479
>memes are memes because they reflect real life accurately
memes are memes because internet people are retarded

>>18393125
Did this response seem funny in your head?

>>18393482
>It's a portmanteau for involuntarily celibate
That's oxymoronic. All celibacy is voluntary by definition. You can't divoce words from their intrinsic meaning and expect to be taken seriously.

>>18393476
>https://incels.wiki
the absolute state of this board

>>18393492
Internet people tend to be higher IQ than average, especially on online forums.

>>18393463
say what you want but that's what the story boils down to.
we live in a society alienated from nature, we work alienated jobs, our personal relationships are alienated, everything is a lot different to the pre-modern age

>Did this response seem funny in your head?

>>18393476
Are you saying this unironically? You should kys.

>>18393509
Yet they always arrive to retarded conclusions meaning high IQ is a meme.

>>18393503
What term would you use to express the same idea? I see no better alternatives.
>>18393491
Only if you let them to. Look at LGBT individuals. Did they stop using the word gay because people used it as an insult? No. They owned it, and now it's a normal word accurately describing a state of facts. The same with the word incel. People can use it as an insult but it only reflect hatred, bigotry and narrowmindedness on their part. I won't stop genuinely using the word just because some stupid roasties use it as an insult. It's our word.

>>18392971
Why can't Dawkins stick to the stuff he isn't absolutely retarded about? I thought The Selfish Gene was pretty alright, but he just can't stop running his mouth about things he should be silent on.

>>18393476
i will pray for your soul

>bugman filtered by story about bugman
So based

>>18393507
Do you have a point to make? Highly emotional reaction with no reasons given.
>>18393522
Yes. Do you have an issue with what I said? If so, go on and articulate it otherwise it's just empty barking.
>>18393527
There is plenty of good research suggesting high IQ is definitely not a meme. It correlates well with educational attainment, and most geniuses have exceedingly high IQs.

>>18393539
I personally don't believe prayers achieve anything but I appreciate the gesture of compassion and empathy.

No. This book speaks to the limits of human love and understanding, the bizarre and sometimes shifting state of reality and our perceptions of what is permanant or transient. Would you truly still love someone, even your own son, if he was morphed into a hideous freak who could never fit in with society? Now what if that 'hideousness' wasn't actually external, but internal? What is really so horrible about it? Is being different and having a different beliefs/looks really that horrendous? Or is society's perceptions of ourselves even more important than we like to believe?

>>18392971
its about colonialism and the plight of african-american-non-able-bodied-blind-missing-limbs-gender-fluid-women

>>18393568
>Do you have a point to make? Highly emotional reaction with no reasons given.
I've learned better than to try to argue with you retards. Now I just laugh and move on.

>>18393476
damn that came like a bomb. Has anyone debunked this yet? I'd like to see them try

>heres your atheist icon bro

>>18393476
>incels.wiki

hehe he bugge

>>18393584
Not yet. The blackpill is just not popular enough for mainstream figures to start taking it seriously, and is disserviced by emotional fits of anger seen on incel forums, which associate the real important science of blackpill with the public perception of the angry misogynistic deranged incel poster.
However we are beginning to see some genuinely good faith actors engaging with blackpill science and its societal implications, and trying to divorce it from the toxicity of incel forum mindset, most notably Alexander Grace. As people like him become more popular and as more data comes out from the dating app datamines, we will see the blackpill becoming mainstream.

>>18392971
I assumed it was body horror/really detailed psychology of shame and inadequacy. Also just really really good writing, but idk, seems like pretentious midwits who need everything to have a comprehensible message or allegory or satisfying character arc to be good.

>>18393172
Yeah basically this. They worship their own mind and rationality to the point that anything that doesn’t fit into their low resolution theories about the world is useless nonsense. Peak narcissistic midwit.

>>18393517
Yawn. Come up with new material.
>>18393535
Do you think only experts on a particular topic should be allowed to express their opinion on it? I commonly see such a view derided on lit as bugmanish.

>>18393582
>retards
you shouldn't use pejorative language that displaces those who are non-mentally-able. be better.

>>18393029
>t. bugman

>>18393642
>>t. gregor

Dawkin's is the left's version of Jordan Peterson.

>>18393172
>>18393630
Or they simply have a different opinion than you do.

>>18393653
The left hates Dawkins, as far as I know.

>>18393657
Or not

>>18393594
Based

>>18393372
I like it because it is disturbing and relatable and makes me feel something. The prose is a means to an end and that it is highly regarded is also just secondary validation.

>>18393636
>Do you think only experts on a particular topic should be allowed to express their opinion on it?
No but you should be minimally informed or else you're just speaking out your ass

>>18393663
Dawkins helped the left get to where it is now.

>>18393476
>incels.wiki
I fucking hope they'll publish Incels: A Very Short Introduction and Cambridge Companion to Blackpill within my lifetime

>>18393657
They also without a doubt write of religion as conmen with nothing meaningful to say. They have a different opinion, but their opinion is based on reductive thinking that inspires nothing but satisfaction with being smarter that others.

Story always felt like it was more about the horrors of self-pity than self-hatred

>>18393681
Is having read the book (which Dawkins clearly did) as well as various analyses and interpretations of the work not informed enough for you? What should he have read besides that?

>>18393689
Interesting. What do you mean by reductive thinking? Can you give an example?

>>18393686
Oh and of course I wouldn't mind a Penguin Classics or Oxford World Classics edition of My Twisted World

>>18393686
Me too, man... Me too...

>>18392971
Holy fuck what a dumb cunt. I thought he's whole thing was he's suppose to be smart? I just lost the small amount of respect I had left for the guy.

>>18393720
It's amazing how much you can anger midwits by simply questioning the prevailing dogma.

>>18393706
Pretty much what I said before. They can only appreciate something if it falls into some low resolution ideology or theory that they already believe. People believed in christ for 2000 years? They were morons who couldn’t understand science yet. A book doesn’t have a concrete message or allegory that I can wrap my head around? It is just meaningless nonsense. They are just satisfied with what they currently understand and view anything higher as a threat that they need to dismantle.

>>18393636
>Do you think only experts on a particular topic should be allowed to express their opinion on it? I commonly see such a view derided on lit as bugmanish.
This is literally Plato's opinion.

>>18393663
So the left version of Peterson then.

>>18393663
pretty based ngl

>>18393738
You ever read the book? The nigga is turned into a beetle. It doesn't have to be deeper than that it's just a good book.

>>18393752
Plato is also the ultimate pseud and bugman.

>and then Gregor woke up.

>>18393789
I don't recall Gregor being black.

>>18393819
technically I don't think it reveals his race

>>18393291
this

>>18392971
>If it's an allegory it's an allegory of what?
Seeing how he's getting older, dumber, less capable and relevant by the day, you'd think he would sympathize with Gregor's predicament to some degree.

>>18392992
my feeling as well.

>>18393862
Maybe he is one of those people that just generally don't see the utility of fiction. Once a year he picks up a fiction book and goes "today I will give fiction a try" and whether he makes it through or not doesn't matter because at the end of the experience he goes "bah! What was the point of all this? I could have used this time to read a science journal or a book on history! Why do people read things that haven't and will never happen when there is so much reality we don't understand?"

If anyone is interested this audiobook recording has a great narrator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nitvuBfHWJY&t=10s

Give it a listen before bed, an undeniable classic. Poor Gregor.

>>18392971
So are people like Dawkins, Harris, Peterson, etc. essentially just attention whores. Do they always feel the need to be in the spotlight even if they make an ass of themselves?

>>18393476
Dude, get a life. Have sex. The internet has rotted your brain but it's not too late.

>>18393907
Do you know what the word incel means?

>>18392971
Based for attacking jews, cringe for being a stemlord who gets filtered, and cringe for being Richard Dawkins.

That's 1 based and 2 cringes, sorry dawk

>>18393918
It doesn't have to be you

>>18393878
I used to be like that, but I searched for an answer to this question and I found it (not even with informed guidance, just google and /lit/). I educated myself about literature only a little and I can already see how dumb this tweet is. Even before I got the little insight I have now I'd never make an ass of myself by asking such a dumb question in public. I think it must be hubris, he simply never stopped to consider before letting go of that brainfart that maybe he's wrong about his uninformed impression of a great writer and the rest of the world is right.

>>18393889
I think you have to be a huge narcissist to seek out roles this they have

>>18392971
wow how the fuck do you miss the allegory is he retarded?

>>18393556
>It correlates well with educational attainment, and most geniuses have exceedingly high IQs.
Uncle Ted was the smartest man in the US at some point but that doesn't mean shit if you arrive at shit conclusions and decisions. Yes, there are even high IQ retards.

>>18393476
>https://incels.wiki/
Holy shit this is actually well written. I thought it'd be something cringe like rational wikipedia, but this is pretty good.

>>18393029
Everything is fiction

>>18393795
Plato is ultimate giga chad with a trascendent soul.

>>18392990
>>18393048
kek

>think dawkys a dipshit
>spiteread metamorphosis because of this tweet
>now feel awful
I think I just got chessmastered by dawky

Also I think the story is largely about the fate of people who live without acting on aspiration

>>18393889
They are conmen but you can’t really blame them for seeing a market where others didn’t and taking it. Some of them make good points, but once you are in that world you do more and more compromises for positive or financial reenforcement and become a parody of who you used to be. You become a meme basically and keep saying the same thing over and over because it is what works. At first it is like, hey this guy is making some good points, then they get big and keep making those same points like a monkey doing his dance on a stage because he found the right thing to trigger his desired response. They lose a lot of self awareness and become useless relics in less than a decade.

>>18393391
His short stories are more remarkable than his novels prose-wise, and the German versions do make the quiet moments and the humor stand out more, in my opinion. While I was reading them I thought it made sense that someone famous for his depictions of alienation would also be good at showing the small reprieves, which is a feeling I didn't get from the translations.

>>18394030
>Also I think the story is largely about the fate of people who live without acting on aspiration
Filtered

>>18393657
They don't have an opinion, they can't really think, because they can't see what's infront of them that's unbendable to their small circuit of things the know that's gives then certainty, even at the cost of reducing the world to mere words.

>>18394106
>someone famous for his depictions of alienation would also be good at showing the small reprieves, which is a feeling I didn't get from the translations.
I remember some of his quotes reflecting that strongly. I’ve never been able to explain what is so good about his writing because on its face it seems so boring and aimless, but actually reading it is like nothing else I can think of. I don’t want to learn german though.

>>18393463
Nah, he's based.

>>18393476
If even half of the shit listed on that site is true, it would mean female empowerment was the biggest cultural mistake we ever made and we need to do all we can to reverse it.

>>18393476
people are memeing you but that page is very well-written and supported

>>18394006
What do you expect...the author(s) were probably incels with too much time (and cum) on their hands.

>>18393532
>roasties
The insult just doesn't work when it comes from an incel. You pretend to hate them but if she gave you a chance to fuck her you'd do anything for her. It just comes off as resentment.

>>18393029
The language of literature usually has little to do with the everyday spoken language. If you want fluency, talk with natives.

Ha, he turns into a stinky bug. Very profound.

>>18394144
Nah I'm at least partially right
There are obviously other themes too though

>>18394030
>>18394600
Because he is so invested in his family and not himself? Why would he become a disgusting burden on his family then?

The metamorphosis is about being a neurotic jewish fag.

>>18393029
Inpooot

>>18394860
That's actually every jewish writer.

>>18392971
The Metamorphosis is well-written and well-structured, which is why it is good; and incidentally, this also explains why Orwell, a derivative sentimentalist, is a mediocrity.
Dawkins is clearly unable to feel any adequate reaction towards good writing. To him, aesthetic judgement should be reduced to epistemic simplification. He is a scientific midwit.

>>18393029
It's actually the opposite. I learn languages to read fiction.
Also, Dawkins's books will be considered fiction in 250 years, just like Lamarck is considered fiction now.

>>18392997
Why not? This seems exactly in line with all of the other obnoxiously stupid things he says with complete confidence.

>>18393134
Great rebuttal to a terrible tweet.

>>18395163
how do you know this?

>>18393134
lmao

>>18393372
>If the story was promoting globohomo LGBT issues you wouldn't give a damn about the prose

I like it because of the prose and if the story were promoting globohmo LGBT issues I would still like it because of its prose, much in the same way I enjoy any prose that is well-written, although well-written prose is very rare and getting rarer and rarer nowadays.
I enjoy Mayakovsky's communist poems as well as Pound's fascist cantos. If you cannot understand this, it means you are incapable of having an aesthetic experience.

>>18393372
metamorphosis is an obvious allegory for the trans experience, I don't know how any of you can miss it

>>18394421
Nah, he's cringe.

>>18393007
Actually people lived about as long as we do now, the reason the average lifespan is so short is because of high infant mortality and childhood death. If you survive childhood in ancient Europe or Middle East, you will live an average of 70 years

>>18392971
The apostles of scientism have a hard time existing in the liminal spaces of knowledge. Everything must be nailed down for them to feel that it is worthwhile. It makes sense that Dawkins does not enjoy Kafka because Kafka is essentially a religious and almost mystical writer. The fact that Kafka's stories can be a prism (Josephine the Singer, or Mouse Folk" is another example in Kafka) for many different situations is actually its strength, and not a weakness

>>18392971
Reddit man has Reddit opinion. Reddit thread to Reddit man as Redsit man takes Reddit Reddit to Redditville.

>>18393029

>>18393343
Metamorphosis can be read in a few hours.

>>18393372
It's about a loser who lets people walk all over him and why that is bad. It has a good lesson.

>>18393029
fiction not real

>>18395163
No

>I cannot make you understand. I cannot make anyone understand what is happening inside me. I cannot even explain it to myself.

If you have to pinpoint what the book is about, that line right there encapsulates the whole.

>>18395418
Obviously yes. Memetics itself is nowadays grossly discredited. As for books such as The Ancestor's Tale, fossil evidence changes all the time. DNA evidence is pretty solid, but other than that... A lot of it will change. Just look at science books written 100, 200 years ago.

>>18395479
>Just look at science books written 100, 200 years ago.
I do not find this analogy convincing

the replies on this thread and on twitter are bad also
>ackshually! it's about [...]
stopped reading there. anything you could possibly say there outside of reiterating the plot is necessarily wrong. Dawkins is *right*, that interpretations do range widely, but that says nothing about the work itself. Nabokov already said the obvious half a century ago, that the Metamorphosis isn't making any sort of larger point about society, and that you ought to read literature first carefully (paying attention to repetition) as its own self-consistent narrative (long before theorizing about allegory) and that is it's own reward.

Stop trying to summarize literature with "it's about such and such." You are just outing yourself as a mediocre mind.

>>18393476
>By the end of her life, the average woman will have a negative $122,000 net fiscal impact
Wot, really?

>>18392971
This is a pretty interesting trend actually. It seems like modern man has lost the ability to actually read meaning in texts and can only understand the words in their most literal sense. So you get a lot of bugmen complaining about trivial things about the narrative like "where did the aliens come from" and speculating about surface level detail about the plot rather than trying to understand the meaning that the creator is trying to convey through the plot.

It feels like as a society we've lost the ability to sense Logos. We speak to each other but we've forgotten the spoken word is only the impression of what the person has inside their mind they want to transmit.

>>18392971
missed the point

>>18395621
>Logos
Can we filter this word already?

>>18395635
Go back and read the book again, Dawkins

>>18395616
yes really, mostly because stay at home wives are still pretty common and maternity leave

It's not called a major work of literature it is a major work of literature. I don't understand his need to "define" it either. It's ambiguous, likely intentionally so.

>>18395706
Indeed. People trying to define it according to some hidden motive are as bad as Dawkins.
Every good work of art is ambiguous. If it were 100% clear, you would read it and never reread it again because you already "got it", but it's precisely because the meaning changes with every reading - including as you grow older - that it still remains readable even after you've read it 20 times.
Even the most amateurish artists know this. A good work needs ambiguity. It cannot be black and white.

>>18395706
>>18395767
The hard sciences select for autism.
Autists require everything explained. The concept of mystique is quite possibly fatal for them. That's why YouTube is full of channels over-explaining purposely ambiguous works.

>>18395706
>>18395767
It's about a guy who turns into a bug. Why do people pretend like there's some deep meaning to it? Do you see people sperging over what Harry Potter is actually about? A nigga turns into a bug, that's it, that's the whole story.

He’s an atheist. He doesn’t get this. It doesn’t matter if he gets it or not

>>18395903
>It's about a guy who turns into a bug.
ostensibly

>>18393535
all STEMcels are like this unfortunately

>>18395903
He turns into a bug at the first sentence.
And then there are all the others.

>18393029
can't believe how many people took this obvious bait. pretty cringe

>>18395934
He ripped off The Fly basically

>>18393029
>t. youtube phil/lit consoomer

>>18393527
Higher IQ != Broad life experiences

>>18393360
The drama of the public intellectual. They get told so many times how smart they are by their sycophants that at some point they believe their opinion on anything is the informed opinion, making public fools of themselves consequently when before they would have uttered their shit in private and had a chance to be corrected before embarrassing themselves.

>Jewish author writes about man turning into Ungeziefer (a pest, a parasite) and how he tries to cope with it.

>An allegory? An allegory of what?

Dawkins is senile.

What the fuck is SF

>>18394860
>>18395152
These

>>18397177
Soft Fantasy

>>18393029
Before you continue to use ad-hominems and arguments against the person, could you logically and concisely point out why you think this?

>>18397177
Sexual fantasy

The metamorphosis is not of Gregor, but of Gregor's sister. She goes from his biggest supporter to the individual that advocates for his death the most. All just because Gregor became a burden. It's a story about those you trust and love will betray you once you stop being useful. It has some pretty strong anti-capitalist undertones as well.

>>18397177
Sci-Fi

>>18392997
>Even dawkins

He is genuinely just a guy of average intelligence that was born upper class so he gets to larp as an intellectual. Its the same reaction you'd expect if a truck driver read it.

>>18393155
So it's an allegory for transgenderism? Kafka was ahead of his time.

>>18393476
Notice all the fags who reply with reflexive scorn, truth hurts.

>>18393663
Dawkins has chosen his hill to die on, most people who followed him back in 2010-2014 pivoted to anti-racism and hate him now. The leftist ratchet has no mercy.

>>18397843
>average intelligence
Nope

>>18393663
Needs update with the recent anti-trans comments and eugenics

/lit/ and trannies joining forces to make fun of the meanie old man who doesn't like based jewish literature

https://www.indy100.com/news/richard-dawkins-mocked-twitter-literary-take-b1860449

>>18393942
>I educated myself about literature only a little and I can already see how dumb this tweet is.
Not that I disagree but how so?

>>18397177
Soi Faec

>>18393029
based af

>>18393029
> I no like fiction therefore anybody who like fiction big dumb dumb

>>18393942
>I think it must be hubris, he simply never stopped to consider before letting go of that brainfart that maybe he's wrong about his uninformed impression of a great writer and the rest of the world is right.
He obviously did consider because he mentioned in his tweet that he tried to find an answer from academia and found feminist interpretations. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Dawkins' tweet. He just doesn't care about Kafka's type of fiction, so he makes his thoughts public on his personal Twitter account. Most people who are outraged or give so much attention to this are intellectually insecure and want to feel smarter than an intelligent Oxford professor.

>>18393476
shit like this is depressing

>>18393029

What's wrong with fiction ? I mean people also watch movies. It's the same thing, entertainment purposes.

I agree that YA is retarded though.

>>18393163
Nah religion sucks. Also Kafka was an atheist anyway.

>>18393172
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN’T JUST WANT EVIDENCE BASING YOUR OPINIONS OFF OF FACTS AND EVIDENCE MAKES YOU A TOTAL FUCKING RETARD BRO.

>>18398211
>basing your enjoyment of literature on "facts" and "evidence"

t.turboautist

>>18392971
Kafka is generally a pretty awful author. The Trial is the only worthwhile thing he wrote, and even that is drawn out and boring. Just like his miserable life was.

>>18398275
^George RR Martin fan

>>18392971
No

>>18392971
It’s about transformation, which Dawkins wouldn’t understand because he’s always been a retard

>>18398248
Yes. There is infinite information. There has to be right and wrong answers.

Honestly he is correct. The book is not that well written and not extensively sophisticated or layered. It is a nice short story that people like to assign meaning to, but it should not be considered a major work. People in this thread are pseuds.

>>18392971
>Is he right?
Just confused

>>18393476
>2 Mental
>2.1-2.5

yeah

>>18392971
Dawkin's is the greatest remnant of a generation where we had actual public discourse, and it is hilarious to see him make the twittersphere piss themselves over and over, because EVERYTHING HAS TO BE IDENTITY POLITICS, and anyone voicing any kind of opinion is instantly the center of a piranha pool of party soldiers of even the silliest newly politized meme
Grow up autismos

>>18393029

>linguistic fluency

More like linguistastic pseudery. Keep reading, pasta faggio.

>>18399377

It means, if he recognized you Dawkins, that you give him what he needed.

>>18393134
Appeal to authority. Ad hominem. Not an argument

>>18393373
No, he's important to the history of literature you retard lol

>>18393372
Yeah you're honestly right. The vast majority of people are unable to experience art except as some validation for their own worldview or political inclination

>>18392971
STEM people shouldn't be allowed to comment on anything outside of STEM. It's like a who's who of bad takes and awful personalities. What are you gonna post next, Richie? The curtain is blue? That there's no hard magic system? You fucking mouthbreather. I'm not even mad about him specifically I'm just mad that people like him exist. We need a gas chamber for STEM people

>>18399468
Good luck building that gas chamber without STEM people, leech

>>18399521
You can just use wooden doors

>>18392992
I'm going to argue along these lines but in a way that nobody ever considers.

It is hard to say what does "beautiful prose" means. It's little bit easier with poetry, but prose is harder to wrap around like that. It's much easier to outright criticise some prose as bad and if mistakes are repeated you can trash a book as bad technically. However if the prose just doesn't check "red flags", it's pretty hard to do so. Sometimes some degree of metaphors and allusions are welcome, sometimes being straightforward and clear is. Sometimes something in-between. You get my point, I hope - once the prose reaches some level of technical perfection, it's hard to write a critique or comparison of it.

As such, whenever it comes to any literally critique, but especially prose can't compete for academic accolades by the technical merits of itself. You instead have to give these philologists something to write articles about to keep their teaching jobs. Joyce was explicit that he does exactly that, Kafka may have just done so implicitly.

>>18399448
>copy pasting
You're allowed to think for yourself, anon.

>>18399653
>reaction image
I did, which is how I determined the arguments were fallacious. Ad hom, btw

>>18392971
These are my favourite threads. I love seeing theists and atheists going at each others throats

>>18399391
I mean was it not obvious? If normal people have issues, how could autists not have even more issues?

>>18393608
People don't take it seriously because it's not in their interest. Women like the power they have. Have you seen the Wiki page on incels? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel It's specifically made to discredit anything related to incels.

>>18399739
>and many sources report that incels are predominantly white.[19][20][21][22]
Yeah, that's utter bullshit. Flat out lie.

>>18399776
Everything wrong is the fault of whites and everything that should be bad is associated with whites. Then they wonder why people feel disenfranchised and join radical movements where people at least accept them.

>>18399776
Kek, I just checked one of these "sources" and it's literally unfounded blood libel against whites:
>But until very recently, white men in patriarchal societies such as Canada and the United States didn't have "incel" complaints, because they enjoyed relatively free access to women's bodies. Indeed, the seething rage that allegedly fuelled Minassian's terror comes from women gaining more control of their bodies, thanks to decades of activism.
>In the process, they're denying white men an old privilege to which many still feel entitled: sex whenever they want it.

>>18399827
Also, Minassian isn't even white

>>18392971
I thought it was an allegory for the alienation of modernity.

>>18393653
Whether you hate JBP or not, the guy clearly understands the value of literature and philosophy. That’s his whole shtick when he’s not talking about trannies

>>18399827
Delete the fake sources if you want to deal with kvetching

>>18393663
wtf I love Dawkins now

>>18399827
>blood libel
This phrase has a very specific meaning

>>18392971
I never bought into certain comments about people like Dawkins, Degrasse Tyson etc. But they are genuinely, unequivocally, unironically, actually fucking retarded. They come out with some shit that even I could fucking debunk, and I'm a shut-in NEET who dropped out of high school. That shouldn't happen. Ever.

>>18392971
Why does every atheist either look like Darth Sidious or act like Rust Cohle?

>>18400662
Ok debunk it then

>muh AKHTUALLY man
Richard Dawkins is too autistic to understand that if a piece of /lit/ is expressing something that could be that easily communicated 1:1 as a bullet-point list of platitudes, then it would be an essay and not abstracted into a story. He's a good example expert worship and how expertise within one field doesn't automatically transfer over into every other possible field of expertise.

>>18400662
>a shut-in NEET who dropped out of high school
these are caliber of "intellectuals" you engage with when posting on 4channel.org. remember that.

I'M COCKROACH-RICK

>>18393134
This is what happens when you outsource your sick burns to other leftist retards on Twitter. This guy is out of practice.

>itt: no one can refute him
it's a good book tho

>>18392992
yeah I hate to circle jerk but I agree with this totally.

His stories have a humor that hits me pretty hard. Gregor's dialogues with the other characters and his internal chatter both are loaded with dark humor that's only kafka.
The Castle as well made me laugh out loud and stare cross eyed at people in the dmv.

>>18399521
That's a very STEM way of looking at things. It will be your undoing.

>>18393255
>no meat touching please

"NOOOOOO! It's about loneliness and betrayal! The artist's struggle for existence in a society replete with philistines that destroys him step by step."

"Haha, he turns into a cockroach. Funniest shit I've ever read."

>atheist being a brainlet
how is this news

>>18401486
>cockroach
Next question: what insect? Commentators say cockroach, which of course does not make sense. A cockroach is an insect that is flat in shape with large legs, and Gregor is anything but flat: he is convex on both sides, belly and back, and his legs are small. He approaches a cockroach in only one respect: his coloration is brown. That is all. Apart from this he has a tremendous convex belly divided into segments and a hard rounded back suggestive of wing cases. In beetles these cases conceal flimsy little wings that can be expanded and then may carry the beetle for miles and miles in a blundering flight. Curiously enough, Gregor the beetle never found out that he had wings under the hard covering of his back. (This is a very nice observation on my part to be treasured all your lives. Some Gregors, some Joes and Janes, do not know that they have wings.) Further, he has strong mandibles. He uses these organs to turn the key in a lock while standing erect on his hind legs, on his third pair of legs (a strong little pair), and this gives us the length of his body, which is about three feet long. In the course of the story he gets gradually accustomed to using his new appendages—his feet, his feelers. This brown, convex, dog-sized beetle is very broad.

In the original German text the old charwoman calls him Mistkäfer, a "dung beetle." It is obvious that the good woman is adding the epithet only to be friendly. He is not, technically, a dung beetle. He is merely a big beetle. (I must add that neither Gregor nor Kafka saw that beetle any too clearly.)

>>18395616
Autistic people don't understand that just because you didn't pay your wife to do the laundry doesn't mean it was of no economic value. Incels and economists are surprisingly similar.

>>18392992
Es ist nur ein fiebertraum auf papier.

>>18401577
You're dumb as fuck and you need to learn to read. Fiscal impact here is a precise economic term meaning taxes payed minus money government spends on you. It says absolutely nothing about economic value of women, which is something you just came up (which is not a thing) with to attempt to rebut something you don't even understand. The incel wiki even quotes
>This is due to a combination of lower workforce participation, higher health and education spending, higher income support and lower direct and indirect taxation.

>>18401577
Words cannot begin to describe how stupid you are.

>>18392971
Feel free to explain why he's wrong, pseuds.

>>18394502
>>18393584
Its debunked in the first sentence. Evo Psych isn't real science.

>>18399457
Explain why he is important.

>>18403369
How so?

>>18403369
Note that the vast majority of stuff there is actual data and statistics that have nothing to do with evo psych. Evo psych is only used to "make sense" of the data, i.e. tell a story about how that is what we would expect given evolutionary pressures. There is no speculation "heres what I would think evolution would favor, hence that is how our society operates right now" that's not supported by genuine data. That would be ridiculous. You not believing in evopsych does in no way invalidate the scientific blackpill. You should actually read the page and the studies they discuss.

>>18393029
>on a literature board

>>18392971
If you’re not talking about evolutionary biology I don’t give a shit, Dawkins. Hitchens may have been a neocon cuck after 9/11 but at least he wouldn’t have stood for this shit. I also wish Gould were still alive, he made Dawkins seethe.

>>18392971
I used to hate Dawkins, but now that I've seen this... Damn!

>>18400788
Funny enough Rust Cohle’s world-view was strongly influenced by Thomas Ligotti, who I believe has cited Kafka as one of his influences.

>>18393176
That's like pages 1-5. Not the whole thing. His family's attitude is partly about how useful he is, though.

>>18398248
>calls anon autistic
>posts reaction image of aroused woman
pot meet kettle

>>18395939
so it was about a bug who dreamt he was a man and loved it
but now the dream is over

>>18393476
Outstandingly based, remember anon, they hated Jesus because he spoke the truth.

>>18392971
why wont he apologise for his damn car

>>18393184
It just keeps getting worse, doesn’t it?

>>18404630
Not falsifiable

>>18393476
This is an utter load of shit. Incels cope in the exact same way pathetic fatties do: They don’t want to take responsibility for how shitty their life/health is, so they try to blame it on something out of their control, like muh genetics or muh canthal tilt is the reason why I am a fatass/permavirgin. Then they try to pass off their blatant life denying slave moralism as “objective truth that everyone else is too cowardly to accept”. It’s pure unbridled copium and resentment. Read Nietzsche instead of wasting a single second of your life on r9k.

>>18394474
Yes.

>>18406599
ok roastie

>>18395240
>metamorphosis is an obvious allegory for the trans experience
-broad society feels disgusted but too polite to say it openly
-pampered by females who love him beyond his own good
-everyone happy when he died
how did I never see it

>>18406599
At the level of analysis of the individual, you are correct, but these things do become important once you try to make sense of larger societal trends. It would be dishonest to discount the dangers of female hypergamy coupled with gender equality. More and more men will be left behind as time goes on, which is bad for everyone. We unironically need to go back.

>>18392971
its almost as if modernist literature doesn't always have fixed discernible meanings.... if only there was some academic literature written on this subject....

>>18392980
it really saddens me that WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY where retarded bugmen like Richard Dawkins are succesful public figures and considered "intellectuals"

>>18393372
it's the kind of story that is so obvious in it's meaning in relation to it's temporal context, but at the same time can mean anything so it becomes a universal work of literature.

>>18407225
>it's meaning
>its

>>18393230

Because he's catering to his equally retarded fanbase.

>>18393372

I like Metamorphosis because it's incredibly fucking funny.

>what the heck, I'm a giant bug?
>what an inconvenient annoyance
>maybe I should go back to slee--
>OH SHIT I'M LATE FOR WORK

How can people not see how funny that is?

>>18407464
his family's relief after he died was pretty funny too
>whew! thank god that's over, we can finally move on with our lives :D

>>18393878
Fiction has to pretend to flow some form of internal consistency to be vaguely convincing.
I refuse to believe a person that's smart enough to keep a job that requires writing can't figure out any way to communicate anything with his family.
This alone makes the book and anything it's trying to convey a joke.
It's not good fiction. Maybe the prose is good the original language but prose should be secondary to meaning.

>falling for the "nonfiction only" meme

>>18407492
>if you're smart and can write you'll be able to figure out how to communicate when you suddenly have no hands or vocal cords and your existence disgusts and terrifies everyone you know
condolences on your retardation

>>18393134
Lmao
>why is this thing good?
>it’s good because it’s good, ask the people who say it’s good and they’ll tell you that it’s good
I’ve never read Kafka or Dawkins but this is such a childish and butthurt response

>>18392971
i thought it was kinda boring, after reading it i just thought 'yes, that is what turning into a bug would be like' and little else

>>18393377
>>18407919
lpbp

It doesn't matter if the Metamorphosis was good or not. Personally, I enjoyed it, but that's irrelevant. What makes Kafka a major literary figure is that his work is one of the first examples of absurdist fiction, which became a popular genre. That's how it works. Whether a work is good is subjective; books are major literature if they impacted other authors.