/lit/ - Literature

Odyssey, haven't read Iliad

>>18392133
Odyssey. Although I admit it's the standard midwit answer.

>>18392133
The Illiad arguably has the most kino moments but also drones on at times, the entire chapter dedicated to listing all the ships in Agamemnons fleet is particularly egrigious and was literally just Homer dabbing with his memory skills.

>>18392133
Everyone enjoyed the Odyssey more, but the correct answer is Iliad.

(I haven't read either and only learn what I know through cultural osmosis)

>>18392370
>that moment when Agememnon demands the Greeks to build him a toilet that is fit for the leader of men, makes the Greeks watch as he struggles to pass his bowels - leading to him having the best parts of 6 oxes given to Zeus, Bringer of Stormclouds, to help him release.
Was it autism

>>18392407
wise

>>18392133
Hesiod - Theogony & Works and Days

>>18392133
Iliad because I'm not a pleb.
>>18392407
>Everyone enjoyed the Odyssey more
Sounds like you surround yourself with plebs.

>>18392133
Childhood answer is The Odyssey.
Adulthood answer is The Iliad.

Whose prose translation is the best? I wanna read it in prose after I get through 2 more verse translations: lattimore's and fagles's

>>18392133
Iliad for the manliness
Odyssey for the adventure
Overall, I really enjoy the 'personal excellence' part of the Iliad and the cool metaphors.

>>18392133
I’ve read the Iliad twice but quit halfway through the Odyssey

>>18392370
>filtered by the ship list

>>18392559
They're both very good though.

odyssey was better more often
the ox dragging dorifto in iliad was brutal
>>18392370
ship list was for locals to cheer to
and timewasting so everyone could gather round to listen

>>18392566
Yeah I don’t think the Odyssey is *bad* but the stories Achilles, Hector, Agamemnon, Aeneas, Menelaus etc are just so much more interesting to me than Odysseus going home. To me the Odyssey reads more like an epilogue to the Iliad than a great story you can get totally invested and absorbed in.

>>18392631
You should've finished it. It picks up when Odysseus arrives to Ithaca.

>>18392649
I probably will revisit both sometime

Which one should I read first?

>>18392725
The Iliad, duh

Iliad /thread

>>18392464
>Sounds like you surround yourself with plebs.
I appreciate your logical adherence to the fact that I have myself not read the work.

>>18392455
Kind of intrigued by Hesiod due to the background of him writing it but isn't it just a textbook essentially

>>18392152
Unless you have to work today and tomorrow you have no reason not to have read it by Monday

>>18392872
Why would you speed read Homer lol

is the Samuel Butler translation good?

>>18392915
yea. one of the better ones.

>>18392725
The Iliad

luv me patroclus
luv me honor
luv me mum
luv me briseis

'ate hector
'ate agamemmnon
'ate
'ate that man who 'ides one thing in his 'eart and means another

simple as

>>18392133
aeneid

Iliad, by far. In a way it feels like a maximalist novel (which I enjoy) because of the constant asides to tell the stories of slain warriors that are for the most part inconsequential to the main narrative. The ship catalogue also fits the interpretation of the Iliad as maximalist. The Odyssey is cool too, though. I like how the plot is effectively told non-chronologically, Odysseus's narration is kind of like a "poem within an poem".

Posthomerica worth reading?

>>18392370
>>homer
bruh i have some news about homer...

>>18392856
God I love these threads.

>>18392133
Iliad all the way

The rage and redemption of Achilles, the forging of his shield, his rampage, Hector talking to his wife are some of my favorite moments in all of literature. Iliad for me all the way bros

>>18393286
dont forget when he fights the fricking river, thats epic

>>18393298
He doesn't really fight it, but I know you are just making fun of me anyway

>>18392133
Odyssey. I can empathize with the heroes of Odyssey, Odysseus himself, Telemachus, even the suitors of Penylope.
I could not empathize with the heroes of the Iliad, there basically basileus No. 1 kills basileus No. 2 and, in turn, is killed by basileus No. 3. I understand that for the Greeks it was different: they were rooting for their team and, given their ramified family ties, many found their ancestors there. So the Iliad was more important to them. I was only hooked on "Shield of Achilles" and then the scene with Priam and Achilles.

>>18392455
>Hesiod - Theogony & Works and Days
I kneel. I love Hesiod more than Homer.

I wanted to read this

>>18392370
Holy shit get over the fucking ship list. It was one part of one book out of over 20 fucking books in the epic. Okay. Who gives a shit. Just skip it.

>>18392725
Chronologically, the Illiad. But it isnt required at all. I personally have enjoyed reading the Odyssey first and now the illiad.

Fingal.

An Ancient Epic Poem

Composed by Ossian Son of Fingal

>>18393152
Second this

>>18393701
Doesn't Goethe have a weird retelling of this in one of his books? It's like pure autism iirc.

>>18392440
undoubtedly
that's why it is reviled in this place

>>18392133
why bother with either when you can basically get both from the Aeneid? checkmate Homoers ;)

>>18392133
iliad is so fuckin boring that i never read the sequel

>>18392133
did anyone ever solve the "shoot the arrow through the axes" thing from the Odyssey? Did that mean holes at the end of the handles or holes in the axe heads?

I read them in about 1 month and I vastly preferred the Iliad its not even close
The odyssey was disappointing to me considering how everyone says its a better read

Bimp

Which left a bigger cultural footprint? I think the Iliad has, but The Odyssey is more influential in recent times

>>18392550
what are some of the cool metaphors? i’m retarded and on book two so i don’t know if i’ve missed any.

>>18395947
Define recent times

>>18396015
The last ~100 years

>>18392133
Odyssey, because the Illiad is very boring for long stretches

>>18392725
Odyssey

>>18392725
Neither, start with the Egyptians.

>>18394374
I thought it was shoot them through the woodof the axes-i remember it describing how none of them had the strength to pull back the arrow

>>18396048
lol

>>18395947
The Odyssey has much more ratings on Goodreads therefore it's more important and also better

>>18396048
Super cringe

bump

Do I have to know all the Greek gods and how they relate to one another in order to understand Homer?

>>18398571
Just know that Zeus is the most based and the others are various degrees of cringe

what is the best translation of the iliad?

>>18393286
I shed some tears in the last scene that Priam and Achilles share their pain over losing Patroclus and Hector respectively. It is the scene I remember the most out of the poem, to be honest.

why don't the byzantines have an iliad equivalent?

>>18392649
Man I've been loving it so far and he just returned to Ithaca and stayed with the swineherd

>>18398789
Not for long

>>18398822
no I imagine he'll soon be up to his knees in dead suitors

I honestly hated the Odyssey because Odysseus seems like such a piece of shit person. He brutally beats up a homeless man he knows stands no chance against him because he begs for food from the suitors. He sleeps with Calypso for a year, and he fucks Cersei, and then he chastises his wife for almost accepting one of the suitors after he's been gone for 20 years. Not to mention he massacres all the suitors despite the fact that it's really only one or two who are emboldening all the rest, and with them gone all the rest would scatter. Despite some parts dragging on, the Iliad is simply a better story with better characters that are actually likeable.

>>18392133
I dont care about odyseus. he is the reason why ajax died
fuck odyseus and everything he stands for

>>18398879
You sound like a woman

>>18398936
Women actually overwhelmingly like The Odyssey more

>>18398946
Ok hole

>>18398936
I mean he's half right, Odysseus is an asshole

>>18398571
I read Hamilton's mythology to get a broad understanding of all of Greek mythology which helped alot as not just the gods are referenced in the Iliad, then I read the Iliad, Electra by Euripedes then the Odyssey. Electra is optional unless you want a follow up of what happens to Agamemnon. I've heard post homerica covers the rest of the trojan war too but I have no idea if it's good and you don't need it if you know the basics

Ajax a best
Fuck jewdisseus and fuck achilles

>>18392133
I prefer the ill lad.

>>18400016
>fuck achilles
zeus I wish

>>18399567
is Hamiltons mythology the best place if I want to learn about greek mythology?

>>18392133
They're quite different stories, hard to choose. I'd probably go with Odyssey. The Iliad is archaic and heroic, the Odyssey is wily and political: most people pick the latter because it's one of the literary touchstones for modern personality; characters, even real people, are more like Odysseus than Achilles. Achilles is more inspiring, but less human. I believe the Iliad was better-regarded in antiquity, so there's an added level of people self-consciously picking it to seem throwbackish or dignified
>>18392370
It's really a call-to-gathering of "Greece", a justification of the cultural foundations for an identity. Everyone can clap along and that really means everyone

>>18392407
Peak lit

>>18400526
No, it's just modern, so people who are unread gravitate towards it according to accessibility.

>>18393322
? does he not?

>>18392893
>two days
>speed read

fucking pleb

>>18400560
This. Hamilton is garbage. You're better off reading Graves, but you should just read Hesiod.

>>18400540
>people who choose Iliad just pretend to like it!
Filtered and upset about it

>>18400951
>"pretend to like it"
No - people pretend to PREFER it.

>>18401174
nah

>>18396048
Do they take place in the same universe?

>>18398946
Ummm,source?

>>18401332
am a woman, I can confirm it

never knew mentor meant Mentor

What are the best translations for both?

I think the whole storyline with the suitors in the odyssey is honestly really boring.

>>18398879
I, too, do not like Odysseus. I think we look at ancient works through too strong of a moderns lens in how we, as the audience, view and relate to the protagonist in a story

>>18400526
its a good guide to further explore the aspects and authors of the mythology you want, don't listen to the autists

>>18400540
>people pretend to prefer the Iliad
no u

>>18398946
tell that to madeline miller

>>18392455
Works and days is based
Theogony was pretty meh, good to know since it gets referenced a lot but quite dry in the reading

best translation for hesiod?

>>18392133
Odyssey is the most enjoyable but Illiad is the most kino. Judging from the other posts most people agree. I'd say overall I like the Illiad more though. Achilles' eventual charge and fight with Hector were just absolutely amazing.

>>18392133
When I was younger, the Odyssey because it was more adventurous and dragged less. Now, I think the Iliad has more to say about warfare, passion, and mercy, so I go with that.

>>18403231
I've read the Lattimore translation, it was fine.

>>18392133
does Fagles have the best translations of these

anyone else hate nestor?

Read the Pope translations you witless plebs.

>>18403918
/lit/ is split on translations, I liked Fagles because he tried the most to be faithful to be Homer but my next read will be pope

>>18403943
very well, I'll go with Fagle first so I can tell people I'm reading Fagle (pronounced Fag ul)

do you have this screenshot of read/expected with illiad and world of warcraft?

>>18404086
Fagles is usually recommended because he's accessible while remaining a good verse translation.
I wish the /lit/ wiki had the translation charts. There have been a couple of good charts made of translations of Homer and Dante, but I can't find them.

>>18402492
It sounds like you're just dumb desu

>>18403943
> Fagles because he tried the most to be faithful to be Homer
No, Lattimore tried.

>>18403940
Nah, he's just a funny old man telling some stories and coping with being old.

>>18404615
Yet Lattimore has been criticized for not being faithful enough.

>>18404655
So has Fagles

>>18402492
not really, he's a dick in comparison to Achilles, Ajax, Menelaus and Hector all who acted of the time

>>18404659
Where? Here? I have never seen this criticism, the criticism I see for Fagles is his writing, not faithfulness.

>>18392501
I’ve only read the Butler translation of Iliad and the Fagle translation of Odyssey.

While it might differ per book, I would recommend Fagle for general readability, fullness of text and the flow of prose.

>>18392631
Totally respect your opinion but I got pretty much the opposite out of them, I felt like Iliad was a scene-setting contextual prelude to the epic journey of Odysseus.

However this is all probably a matter of personal taste and my preference for tales following singular protagonists.

>>18392915
It’s ok.

I read Butler for Iliad and Fagle for Odyssey.

Pros of Butler include his ability to condense concepts, as well as his apt use of Victorian language to vividly describe some of the battle scenes.

Cons of Butler include that his work, in parts, is abridged. This means it is slightly shorter than other translations. Furthermore, Butler states in his introduction that in translation he focused first on readability, then on the source material/literal translation. This means both the poetic tone of the original text is slightly omitted.

I overall enjoyed Fagles a bit more but it’s a matter of preference. I think the Butler translation is free use, so have a read on Gutenberg or something online and see if you like it.

>>18406192
Would have been better off reading Fagles for Iliad and Butler for Odyssey

What is the worst translation of the two? I want to read those.

>>18392464
By everyone he meant /lit/. Not disputing your post, merely expanding.

Odyssey is more entertaining, Iliad is far more compelling.

>>18406835
From what I saw of E.V. Rieu I didn't like at all

>>18392133
Neither. There both a waste of time.

What translation should I get for the Odyssey, Illiad, and Aeneid?

>>18400942
Is theogony and works and days oxford edition good?

>>18395961
they only start in the fourth book, when the plot picks up

>>18392370
>he didn't like the ship listing
unironically I loved imagining how such a big army was forming at the shores in such a described way that holy fuck I'm gonna have to read it again

Odysseus just did what he had to to get home and win the war he never wanted to go to Troy in the first place

>>18412329
that's why he's a loser and his story sucks

>>18412927
no u

Lattimore or Fagles for Iliad?

>>18413156
read passages from both and decide what you like better, I chose Fagles personally

>>18410190
Translating them yourself is the best translation, especially for the Aeneid.

>>18413156
Read the first three letters of each and then decide

>>18392133
I imagined Iliad as being in black and white and Odyssey being in color. I encourage the reader to interpret this as they will.

>>18416287
why

>>18411141
In a true visual adaptation, this would be a cool montage scene

>>18410190
Alexander Pope for Illiad / Odyssey, and John Dryden for Aeneid

>>18398879
I saw it as him losing his sanity due to his travels, he seems so sound and reasonable in the Iliad.

Odyssey
Achilles is a sulky faggot
Odysseus is a pussy destroyer

>>18418342
Achilles destroyed his bf's bussy every night which as the greeks knew is far more masculine and admirable than whatever lame shit you do lmao

>>18418342
>Achilles is a sulky faggot
*Beats* the FUCK out of a FUCKING RIVER after drowning it with Trojan soldiers.

>>18418342
>and back he whirled, insane to hack more flesh
Achilles is based, him and his homie also fuck loads of women

>>18418342
Achilles never ran from battle

>>18418599
He was also a better person when he wasn't sperging

>>18418342
Achilles was based as fuck because he regularly puts the whiny and entitled Agamemnon in his place