/lit/ - Literature

>>18370180
Until you develop a better loterary theory and historicism from your metaphysics and apply it, we will continue using pomo/feminist/liberal metaphysics.
Marxism failed, naziism was embarrasingly doa. This is what we have. Your feelings are noted.

>>18370194
Lottery theory?

I reckon literature will get better, if you're talking about actual literature and not popular fiction. See, people have always used reading as a form of escapism, so given that the world is getting progressively more messy, I'd say that more authors are going to create stories that emulate their perfect world. In which case, literature is going to become almost a form of protest.
That translation of Beowulf is some idiot trying to turn a well respected fable into a cash-grab for a popular audience. At that point, I wouldn't even consider it literature.

>>18370180

>>18370180
No one pays attention to muttland anymore faggot.

>>18370224
Typo, he meant literary theory

>>18370229
More about translations, in specific. How would it affect if old works were revisited through the lenses of minorities or woke culture.

>>18370180
a

>>18370255
It would make a bunch of tiny-dicked faggots shrivel up and make a post about it. Do you have a solution?

>>18370260
Not saying that's a problem. I just want to debate how it affects literature as a whole. I'm sure translations throughout history were a work of their time.

>>18370235
came here to post this

>>18370180
White history will be rewritten by nonwhite academics, or types of white academics with a chip on their shoulder (faggots and feminists).
Here's one example:
https://archive.is/YXn54
>He Wants to Save Classics From Whiteness. Can the Field Survive?
>Dan-el Padilla Peralta thinks classicists should knock ancient Greece and Rome off their pedestal — even if that means destroying their discipline.

>>18370266
It doesn't affect literature as a whole. It's a translation that at best some teacher may make her students buy for some feminist study class.

I think the only chance is for the creation of new folk literary movements, but I don't see it as likely since the only people who could do it seem to have rejected literary engagement in general.

>>18370280
Tbh I hope it does and your incessant whining entices people to do it. If I was in media I would do it just to piss you off.

>>18370286
Tbh
Folks like the cops?

Tbh desu desu

>>18370299
>Folks like the cops?
People outside of academia and people with anti-intellectual tendencies in general. People who don't use the term "folks."

>>18370309
That would be easily rolled over. Blue collar culture was being propped up on tv in the 90s but it peaked in 60s until it mostly petered off by 80s

>>18370280
This is something straight out of atlas shrugged when they wanted to destroy Galt even if it meant their own destruction.

>>18370280
I'm tired of losers bitching. If you have no solution except some might is right cope then you deserve to have it taken away. You have every tool at your disposal. You just want to bitch about it and, 6 years removed from when it was in vogue, it just turns people off. It's been 6 years, you had a president you shilled hard for, did you finally figure out what it is you wanted to do. Humans are generally useless but jesus y'all anti-woke people are about as annoying as gnats.

Here's your solution >>18370194
Come back when you have something to offer. It literally just helps you solve it. Take methylphenidate if you're lazy (or even if you're not, you get a lot of work down as long as you don't have some privilieged-ass "addiction problem"). We all want you to come up with something interesting.

>>18370280
>>18370345
You can't solve your own god-damned problems? I'm expected to be concerned what some whiny kid can't do for himself. It's solvable. It is remarkably easy. If you need more steps I can provide them. Hell if you weren't so disconcerting I'd make one for you if you asked me nicely.

>>18370280
You could stop this but you're too busy reading 4chan

>>18370180
As long as the Jews control universities.

>>18370315
Yeah, but there a still a large number of people outside and hostile to academia and academic trends. The cultural vacuum is perhaps what gives me hope that something new can be developed.

>>18370345
he's right. hiding in eye-rolls and catty phrases only draws attention to your cowardice.

>>18370359
you know this is ludicrous, but admitting that to yourself would lead you a point where you must either act against it or admit that you were never as clever, wise or brave as you liked to pretend, that you will more or less warp and shift in accordance with the needs of authority.
it's a typical thing with westerners. it's why british people would rather ban mohammad cartoons than admit they're afraid of terror attacks - just like you, they puke up silly little jokes and nippy 'put downs,' rather than face up to the challenge of their times. they trivialise what they can't overcome, they 'scorn what they don't save.'

>>18370359
Ok fed

>>18370556
this is the obverse side of what the others are doing itt. pretend that the secret police are hiding in your shoes so you never actually have to walk your talk.
equate any political action with spree killing so you can justify inaction.

>>18370480
Yes but being against something isn't enough for a long-standing counter culture right?

>>18370235
Okay but why is Tyrone's version ALSO better than Emily Wilson's.

>>18370582
Probably, but one could only hope that a significant portion of the population goes from being merely resentful of the power academia holds over all of society to being actively and militantly anti-intellectual.
I’d be willing to say that the literature today under this MFA hegemony is the worst that its been in all of human history. Perhaps it’s because literature itself is nothing more than a vestigial organ in today’s social animal, but I would like to that it still has a place and function.

>>18370628
What would they be pro though?

>>18370235
why is the ebonics version actually more impressive than the emily wilson one

>>18370643
pro cocks in mouths

>>18370235
What's wrong with Wilson's one? Seems fine to me

>>18370570
Not that I agree with that anon, but any *legitimate* national socialist political action in America these days would destroy the lives of those involved. Perhaps you have become detached from the reality of things, but for instance while it is possible for a university professor to tell their students point blank that they are a communist, if one was to do the same and say they are a national socialist they would be fired and barred from working at any institution ever again. The overton window is so far to the left it is not even funny.
>inb4 no le window is actually really far right
Fuck off, you faggots. The fact that organizations like the CPI exist at all and function can tell you that no matter how liberal the government is, actual communist political action is still possible without being ostracized, unlike national socialist action.

>>18370751
>legitimate
exactly my point. you draw so fine a line for what counts as legitimate action, demand so strict an adherence to the outward forms of hitler's beliefs that you know you will never actually have to act on any of it.
why does it have to be national socialism? why can't you base your action on the times and society you inhabit rather than wearing the skin of interwar germany?
>without being ostracized
that's because communists back each other up, no matter how fat or sloppy they are. even pedos and rapists get support from their 'comrades,' so long as they toe the party line.
you lot will burn each other over pictures of fat men in hats.
you care more about how you look to people who despise you - not for how you look, but for what you believe - than you do about changing things. you are easy to ostracise because you don't have any faith in one another, just this bitchy, nitpicking need to be 'authentically ns,' as though it was a high school clique and not a political movement.

>>18370345
>creates new theory
>is new theory racist?
We might have to think of another solution. A final one, perhaps.

>>18370840
Not all theories are equal. If it can supersede the last theory and provide more universal application it is automatically accepted because it solves questions in the last theory.

>>18370848
and he is saying that a racist theory which meets all those requirements would not be accepted, because you take for granted that racism is wrong, because it is taboo and you are superstitious.

>>18370798
When I say legitimate, I mean simply something which actually has an effect on society. To do something like that, you need to organize, distribute information, etc. -- and these are the types of activities which larger society will destroy people for.
>why does it have to be national socialism
That question doesn't make any sense to me. That is like asking "What does it have to be communism?". It is an ideology that I and many others believe in, and does in no way (just like communism) have anything to do with a particular country (i.e., Germany). It is simply an ideology relating to the racial spirit -- of any race -- and in any country.
>communists back eachother up
So you are saying that when people were arrested during the Floyd riots, and the Portland judicial system decided to just let them go, that was somehow due to the camaraderie of the communists? No, that is because the political state of society has shifted so far in the favor of people like that that even lowly government and police officials give them a little slap on the wrist for burning down apartment complexes and attempting to murder police officers with concrete debris. I don't really understand your arguments regarding "authenticity". I think that your issue here is that you conflate the larger "right" with the considerably smaller sect of legitimate national socialists. So, when we make fun of magatards -- this is not some sort of party in-fighting, just as communists making fun of liberals is not, but it is just a separation between natsocs and "conservative" idiots.

>>18370878
And I am saying you're thinking linearly. By definition if you objectively solve the questions in a prior theory you supersede that theory. Everything works that way. Any cherished theory has new questions if you actually solve them with an overarching theory then yours gets accepted. That's it. That's the secret.

>>18370967
>>why does it have to be national socialism
>That question doesn't make any sense to me.
Of course it doesn't - you're a liberal. Everything is unique and equal and perfectly interchangable. If there was no liberalism there would be no nationalism or race-based state concepts. Same for marxism, no worker-basef states.

>>18371018
>everyone I don't like is a liberal

>>18370726
B8

>>18370180
>He still thinks the humanities in the West have a future
Literature, art, and the like will survive in China. I wonder if there are people translating the Greeks and Romans to Chinese. If so, those are the most important people in Western civilization today. They will ensure the Western canon survives what is going to happen here.

I always have to chuckle when Anglophones complain about their language getting dumbed down. Are you people retarded? This language is a sandbox for degeneration, there's very little that can be done to it.

>>18371123
I think the article posted earlier in this even says (if it doesn’t there was another article on the same subject that did) that China wants to use its status as a country with an ancient heritage to appeal to nations like Greece and claims that the best reason for “updating” the way we study classics is that it provides the means for the US to counter this. One can only imagine the Chinese talking to Greeks about what it means to have an ancient heritage in the modern world while Americans counter by chastising them for not relating to their heritage in a way that appeases African Americans enough. It’s honestly just absurd to think about.

>>18371348
Well, it might work. If we are able to pump enough modern identity politics into the minds of the Greeks, it won't matter if they have an ancient heritage. They'll tear it down and stick with us.

>>18370628
>I’d be willing to say that the literature today under this MFA hegemony is the worst that its been in all of human history.
What MFA works have you read that makes you say so?

>>18371442
Ben Lerner’s poetry is the first thing that comes to mind.

>>18370235
Unironically, I would be completely fine with an ebonics translation of the Odyssey. The problem is that Ebonics is an ACTUAL DIALECT whereas emily wilson is just a BAD POET.

>>18371061
I don't care for the ideology no

>>18371408
Fair enough. One should never underestimate the extent that mass media can massage self-hatred into a population.

>>18371461
I feel like the way America is trying to exert cultural control on the rest of the West is sort of how a villain would act lol. There has to be a better way

>>18371506
Exporting African American music has been an integral to our cultural dominance. The original they do is essential to our soft power. Hell, the state department even uses hip hop to try to appeal to youth international.

>>18371449
Yeah Ben Lerner's pretty shit. I still think you're exagerating, even in the US there's some decent and interesting stuff that seems to be written.
I think precisely one of the things I dislike the most about contemporary literature (how it almost always has to have a social and political posture) has to do with the fact that writers still think literature has to have a ""function"" so I've gotta disagree there with you too.

>>18370194
4th political theory

>>18370664
It applies the conventions of the style and dialect effectively.
Wilson's is just barren for no good reason. It's not for accuracy, it would be a prose translation otherwise. It's just barren.

>>18371561
Can we just agree they all suck and come up with a better political philosophy? I guess it's not too bad an idea but I think a platonist political theory would be a million times better if they derive a theory of value from him and create an economics around that.

>>18370180
Time washes away all the fluff. Great artists aren't inspired by authors because they are transexual black midgets, even with the academy's current promotion of such people this is only done with status seeking in mind. Very few if any of these people have anything worth listening and none on the level of the canon. As soon as the current societal trend's stop offering status, which inevitably it will as its completely unsustainable to run something so dysgenic, this entire era of literature with at most one or two exceptions will be completely forgotten. I think people will look back at this time period as completely wasted potential and those immediately after will see themselves in a new era of hopefulness just as those after 1918 saw themselves in a new era of despair.

>>18370194
>lol just come up with some new cringe political ideology
here now fuck off

>>18370194
Noticed the increasing interest and discussion around religion, specially Christianity? Even here on 4chan, I have seen it in lots of boards I browse.
It's funny because the ideas you mentioned are mere reflections of christianity, all of this feminist liberal stuff wouldn't exist without the protestant reformation.

>>18371761
Let's just roll back to an earlier release of slave morality. There's a ressentiment restore point from the 1910's where we could try Pauline Christianity vs Marxism-Leninism again.

>>18371692
Metaphysics dipshit. It's derived from a metaphysics.

>>18371761
What in the sweet mother mary and joseph are you talking about?

>>18371005
Literally any theory would supersede neoliberal/post modernist theory. It effectively has no theory other then that there are no theories. No one really likes it other then the elites, hedonists, and status hungry faggots. Galvanizing the masses literally isn't a problem either. Fascism did that, Nazism did that, plenty forms of marxism did that, hell even the alt right accomplished that 2015-2017. All of them in the eyes of most people who aren't boomers btfo'd the the current thought structures of our society. No one likes how things are.

The real issue isn't theory or philosophy or galvanizing the masses but real politik. How exactly do you fight the cabal that controls global capital? How do you handle the fact that the vast majority of people even though they're unhappy with how things are and their current life circumstances, are completely brainwashed into thinking materialist liberal democracy is correct and would completely shut you out if you expressed different thoughts, and even if they are sympathetic would hardly be willing to speak openly in public about it or else lose their job, much less risk their life for the cause? How do you handle being tracked and followed by the entirety of the security state if you try to organize anything electronically which can be traced, and how do you trust that those with you aren't government informants? How do you even fight military industrial complex if you get that far? We not only have to tackle one of these, which are already mountains, but all of these all at once.

If anyone has any other solutions I'm completely open to it because I much prefer action to inaction, but the only real one I've come across is time. The fact is the current system is destined for collapse we know that, the problem is we have no idea how long it'll take. I think Trump was the greatest gift we've gotten since 1945, he significantly sped things up, but again by how much?

The best actions we can do I think is to push for things that will remove the US from worldly affairs, this will by far not solve all of it, maybe not even much, but it will definitely have some significant effects as its largely whats projecting this toxic culture across the world. You might this is guaranteed to happen but I'm not so sure. If the leadership had any sense it should've removed itself from worldly affairs since the end of the cold war. Since its not a true leadership but the cabal of international capital though it didn't and in fact got us embroiled in multiple wars across 3 decades. Trump has done much to bring this conversation back to the forefront, but with Biden's restrictions of fracking meaning we're no longer energy independent and his talks of getting us involved back affairs after the Trump years this is far from guaranteed.

The only solution then is to support vehemently isolationist candidates when they come along, who currently all look like they'll all be national populists in the liking of Trump.

>>18371872
Shut up. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do you pol monkeys come here to get high off your own farts or something or consider yourself more enlightened nazis? That's an absolutely garbage take

>>18371901
>blah blah blah you're dumb and racist I'm right for having no takes
You sure you're not part of academia?

>>18371872
>things would be better if my society collapsed
Weird nihilist cope

>>18371982
Not society, just academia and the current ideology impressed on us.

>>18371916
I will bring about academia 2.0. Y'all failed with deutschephysik/mathematiks and with the 4 years you had.

>>18372003
Mistakes were made, but it served its initial purpose and Trump was miraculously gotten into office. Nothing will ever blackpill me about that. Still the lack of experience showed when the powers at be utilized all their resources to clamp down on it. Its not really beaten at all, no ones core views have really changed, I guess we're all just waiting for another wave like Trump to surf on.

>>18370229
Good stories are written from life experience. As people increasingly run for escapism everything will get increasingly worse.

>>18372065
>waiting
Lol hope you can wait a few decades to a century. It left a bad taste in a good percentage of the population's mouth.

>>18372315
What according to the globalist media?

>>18372325
They are 10-20% off but it's still a majority who vote against him

>>18371872
> The fact is the current system is destined for collapse we know that, the problem is we have no idea how long it'll take. I think Trump was the greatest gift we've gotten since 1945, he significantly sped things up, but again by how much?
Literally sit back, relax, read a book, and wait for climate change to kick in. By 2050ish or before, we'll be feeling it's effects in full force, and the current liberal order will crumble away completely. It won't survive food/water shortages, the wholesale collapse of supply chains, and mass refugee movements into Europe on the scale of millions.

>>18372331
We an electoral college system retard, it doesn't matter if all the illegal immigrants in California and voted against him, he won. Even according to the official vote he actually gained ground too. 46.1% in 2016, 46.9% in 2020.

>>18370180
probably not much, at some point the vast majority of writing produced after 2000 will just up and vanish since it's only ever existed on the internet

>>18370180
lmfao

>>18372336
Climate change will help the northern hemisphere if it can get its nuts together and stave off the mass immigration.

>>18372342
Yes and the opposition is very strong. It left a bad taste in people's mouths and won't be repeatable for some time I imagine

>>18372361
>opposition is very strong
With a candidate like Biden being their best guy? Hardly.

>It left a bad taste in people's mouths and won't be repeatable for some time I imagine
Biden's presidency is a guaranteed failure. The only question is if there's a candidate on the right that can take up Trump's mantle.

>>18372357
>and stave off the mass immigration.
Everyone knows that's not gonna happen

>>18372378
Britain left the EU as a reaction to Merkel bringing in a million Syrian migrants to the EU. Now there's multiple anti immigration parties either in control of or look like they're in the position to take control of their country. Vast reforms still need to be done but I have more then just hope to believe any seismic demographic perils would be met with extremities.

>>18372404
>Now there's multiple anti immigration parties either in control of or look like they're in the position to take control of their country.
The juggernauts (France, Germany) have no anti-immigration parties with real power. Germany's Green, pro-immigrant party is going to win the election while AfD is a meme. The other members states can do whatever they want, if Germany is okay with mass immigration, they'll open their borders.

>The EU will collapse
The EU is not going to collapse, and if anything will become one country. Since Brexit, "leave the EU" movements have been chilled.

>>18370180
>poetry magazine
dead

>>18372513
Germany's been among the least affected by mass immigration so far, at least of the major powers. France politically is a bit more hopeful, Le Pen will probably lose to Macron again though at a much smaller margin and she's still get the 2nd largest amount of votes. Also I know this part sounds a bit schizo but if there were to be a western nation where a revolution/civil war/coup were to occur it would probably be them lol. Seriously though French society is insanely divided and unstable right now.

>>18372628
>Arabs are representative of foreign populations in Germany
Stupid /pol/ baby. Germany has millions of Turkish descent residents dating back to the gastarbiter programmes of the postwar era, and continues to attract immigration from the rest of the EU, Africa, and the Middle East.

>>18372628
We'll see about Le Pen, but again, it doesn't matter if she 2nd place, a loss is a loss.

>Also I know this part sounds a bit schizo but if there were to be a western nation where a revolution/civil war/coup were to occur
As long as economic conditions are tolerable, no Western European country will have any of that (except maybe from Islamists, but that's not exactly going to be anti-immigration).

>>18372628
Addendum: the Algerians in France do not all identify as "Arab" so there is likely an undercount of "Berbers" in that figure, who to outsjders would merely present as Arab

In Britain the larger immigrant communities are "South Asian" ie India/Pakistan/Bengali and Afro-Caribbean

Here is a question for the /pol/shitters: what literature would suggest there is going to be a right-wing anti-liberal revolution if there hasn't been a left-wing anti-liberal revolution? The liberal purchases all weapons you would strike him with and sells them to you (and your shadowpuppet rivals) at a profit.

Decentralization should take care of preserving more of worthy history from the clutches of The Cathedral.

Literature, of course, will continue tanking downward with no visible end in sight. However there will always be potent anti-establishment literature, particularly those written by erudite persons who are often wealthy as well, that will be available outside the surplus of woke crap.

>>18370280
"white history" is a meme, there is no unified "white history" unless you are an amerifag who doesn't know history at all. it's ok, you have been removed from your cultural roots and think "white" is an actual identity that exists. it's not.

>>18372668
It’s not that difficult to understand. The working class identifies and has been politically mobilized more by nationalist parties then leftist parties as a result of the left abandoning them for woke politics which as well has stripped it of its ability to combat liberal capitalism. Marx himself said immigration was a tool of the bourgeois. Plenty of nationalist parties in Europe carry with them leftist economics anyway.

It’s not that nationalist parties have a much better platform to forment revolution on, which I think is unlikely outside of certain countries like France, it’s that there is no real competition from leftist parties if anything I get the impression they’re aligned with the establishment. Ffs the main population of antifa are spoiled white college brats lmao.

>>18372743
Ok let me rephrase this. What would suggest that a right-wing working class could overthrow a left-wing bourgeoisie? The only successful revolutions have been against monarchies. The bourgeoisie—as you have basically all but agreed with me in your noting that their children who will be the future administrators of the state—if they were nervous enough about a nationalist rabble actually taking away their access to labor and capital, would simply adopt the trappings of those very same workers or their vanguards, and pretend to just like them, just like they are doing now. You are totally dominated by representations if you think otherwise

>>18372766
Meant to say
>as you have basically all but agreed with me in your noting that their children are play-pretend anarcho-communists who will be the future administrators of the state

>>18372726
You could do this to dispute the existence to dispute any identity or category. What. You’re saying is more or less meaningless.

>>18372668
I'm not a /pol/tard, but I do think time is on their side. With the advent of climate change and the problems it unleashes (water/food shortages, sea level rise, refugees, supply chain collapses, etc.) the prosperity that allows the liberal world order to survive will disappear. What you will be left with is a discontented population eager for food/water and security. That is the perfect environment for a right-wing demagogue to rise to power.

What leftists lack and what will be their ultimate downfall is that they do not possess an aristocratic temperament.

>>18372785
Sure there could be a tragedy/comedy axis to having a caudillo take over a europoor country and threaten to attack the climate refugees swarming the country, that is to say, threaten to blast his own country into a scorched earth situation to deter immigration, which would end up causing enough damage and scarcity to get him ousted from power, if not by his own people then by international players looking to control the movement of those migrants and the transit countries for their own ends.

On the other hand, the threat of loss in the future is what mobilizes so much investment and liberal-capital activity in the first place, the threat of climate catastrophe might well be the ultimate fitness test to evolve capitalism into an even more despotic form. Instead of buying food you'll be buying food futures, prepaying for water, etc. Can't wait.

>>18371005
That is not how academia works at all, you delusional fuck

>>18372766
Western democracies can’t handle mass death. If they could they would’ve already sent us to the labor camps. Only 3000 Americans died in Iraq and look at the backlash against it. In a Vietnam/afghan style guerrila war the government would utterly lose, they could bomb us but unlike in the Middle East or Vietnam they’ll be wiping out their own countries infrastructure, food, energy lines and turning more of the population against them. On top of that majority of the foot soldiers are aligned with us. The problem isn’t the war if that happens, it’s getting the population mobilized.

>>18372833
Your government would quite literally unleash its underclass to intimidate its working class back into the system, and then reserve its forces to see if either bites back against it.

>>18372829
I have my doubts. If such a figure is able to kick out climate refugees and prevent new ones from coming in, that'll be enough for many people. And if he is able to provide some semblance of stability, people will flock to him. This isn't new, the 20th century has tons of right-wingers who rose to power off the back of economic and social chaos.

As for international players... who?
>USA: Sea level rise, drought
>China: water/food shortages, sea level rise
>EU: refugee crises, sea level rise (RIP Netherlands)
Russia might be able to pull it off, but everyone else will be too unstable to spend power and money to influence other nations

>>18372925
>This isn't new, the 20th century has tons of right-wingers who rose to power off the back of economic and social chaos.
Yes the postwar system, especially in Europe, is actually designed to withstand them and prevent them from being elected. It has worked fairly reliably. In the United States the eventual country-wide roll-out of ranked-choice voting combined with the two-party system will function even more effectively than parliamentary multi-party democracy at curbing extremist plurality.
>everyone else will be too unstable to spend power and money to influence other nations
Being poor has never been an obstacle to interference. Read about the pan-African wars in the Congo of the last few decades. If your neighbor is even slightly less stable than you are, feel free to violate his sovereignty.

>>18372849
It’s forces are literally white rednecks and our middle class is the most heavily armed in the world, and niggers are dogshit at war.

>>18373041
What, you don't think the US military would be willing to fight 'fascism'? Also, it doesn't matter how many weapons the middle class owns if it lives paycheck to paycheck and can't procure food without working for the government or businesses that depend on the government. You really think a bunch of overweight managerials are on some kind of war footing? The point is—get too unruly and the government will withold its services to starve you. It may even loosen up its grip on criminality and enforcing social peace and public order—because it can—just to flex on you. It can tolerate hundreds of millions of dollars in losses, billions, trillions, for the sake of representing its power.

>>18372987
I think you underestimate the impact global warming will have. There won't be a smooth continuation of the post-war system when entire countries are drowning on one hand and millions of desperate people are sailing in on another. Same thing in the USA. You are too optimistic. It's not "things will get harder and we'll carry on", it's "civilization will collapse and savagery will be released." The armed-to-the-teeth warlord with control of a river and farmland will the main sort of ruler left in the ruins. Think a bunch of fortified, neofeudal manors which kill anyone who comes near, that will be the main type of society in the West by 2100.

/lit/ hasn't been interested in literature for over 5 years and certainly isn't interested in contemporary literature.
ask somewhere else, newfag

>>18373210
>contemporary literature
lmfao

>>18373155
>lol the us will use billions if dollars of war weapons in you
Right because that’s worked so well the last few guerilla wars lmao

>>18373208
>The armed-to-the-teeth warlord with control of a river and farmland will the main sort of ruler left in the ruins. Think a bunch of fortified, neofeudal manors which kill anyone who comes near, that will be the main type of society in the West by 2100.
This is a particularly bourgeois pessimism, that you will become responsible for the defense of your own property because of state collapse. Probably there may be a transitional period like this in some countries, but it would also destroy electoral politics and make the arguments for any sort of partisan revolution being inevitable totally asinine because you've just admitted to being a climate nihilist anyway (the climate will bring about nothingness). What is far more likely is a post-Black Death situation, where after a few decades of intense culling, the survivors do extremely well and live better than their ancestors did. You'll either be dead, have more land than you need, or be able to demand higher compensation than you need.

>>18373231
USG lets underclass riots do hundreds of millions in damage to its cities when it doesn't like its current elected head so he can be kicked out by nervous voters, spends trillions humiliating third world populations and showing off its arsenal to its allies and enemies (all wars are in the Russian/Chinese/Iranian backyard).

>>18373251
As I said, I am not a right-winger. But my point is that climate change makes the collapse of the liberal order inevitable, and that will provide a vacuum in which right-wing powers will prosper (I suppose a similar argument works for left-wing powers). As for things getting better, I doubt it. It's not like the Black Death which faded away, the climate crisis will only get worse with time. Of course, a great deal of preparation and climate change mitigation would render this whole scenario moot, but so far no country is doing enough on that front.

>>18373332
>But my point is that climate change makes the collapse of the liberal order inevitable, and that will provide a vacuum in which right-wing powers will prosper (I suppose a similar argument works for left-wing powers)
Right if only the apocalypse would stop liberalism then the discussion becomes increasingly silly.

>>18372782
no, you absolute fucking retard. "french history", "anglo-saxon history", "spanish history", "russian history", "german history", is a thing. please understand the semantic implications of this. "white history" isn't a thing. stop playing mental gymnastics, this is just cope at this point.

>>18372828
do you?

>>18373365
How is it silly when it is literally going to happen? It's unironically the most important political/social/economic development in human history.

>>18373376
Literally no direction-brain solution to this. This is like asking which general should be the next emperor of Rome in the 400s when the Vandals and Goths are about to pull an "I made this" and completely reshape the world

>>18373366

>>18373271
>black people destroying their neighborhoods means the government would survive the largest guerilla war it’s ever seen and on its home soil
I bet pic related will be excited to support its agendered black ruling class

>>18373406
that's a nice gif of a little girl. you got any credible arguments to prove to me the homogeneity of "white history"?

>>18373416
No. I'ma massive faggot. Please rape my face

>>18370586
Because it's not feminist bullshit and doesn't use a passive-agressive faggot tone.

>>18373410
How many of them are feds lmao

>>18373512
I mean they’re Scout Sniper Marines in Iraq so technically all of them

>>18371506
The US IS the villain.

>>18370180
>feminist and woke translations of classic texts being the only ones sold
i hope you are stocked on the classics anons

>>18371348
The heritage of the US contemporarily is just extending its own hegemony, and that entails other countries sublimating into its consumer culture. There isn't a bigger threat to the system than a nation that is willing to stand outside of it.

However, never underestimate the greed and narcissism of politicians.

>>18371348
If you think Greece is going to make decisions on who to subordinate themselves to based on their opinions on the Iliad or Odyssey, you are delusional.

>>18373433
gladly, you little sissy slut

I am a racist misogynist but women and minorities are so incompetent and have left such an embarrassing stain on human history, despite every opportunity and encouragement to the contrary, that I actually feel bad for them and can't laugh. Future humans, if they exist, will look back at this era as an embarrassing, embarrassing joke. It won't even be an 'era', it will be written about like an episode of collective psychosis. 'The period when they forced themselves through full-spectrum brainwashing to think that women and minorities were equally competent participants in human activity, and even as women and minorities proved them wrong day after day, year after year, they merely doubled and tripled down on the delusion, until the air they breathed itself had a flavor of deluded mania about it because nothing was tethered to anything sensible anymore'.

Imagine 500 years from now some intellect looking back, someone without the unnatural and ill fitting brainwashing you have been saturated in since birth. Someone who knows, like you know that water is wet and dogs are stupider than humans, that women are incompetent entitled whiners who can't do anything by themselves. Imagine him sifting through a century of tediously well documented attempts to make women do things on their own, and failing. Not only failing, but biting the hand that feeds them, then crying when it hits them even a little bit, so the hand has to be brainwashed and trained even more to tolerate their bad behavior.

Even I, the greatest misogynist who ever lived, can only see the true form of women dimly, if I look real hard at them. I can see through the programming but I can't break it entirely. Future men will have no such problem. It will be like if we visited a strange society where children are allowed to vote and drive cars, and all the adults treat them as if they're adults too, even while they're bawling and shitting their pants.

>>18373841
Based

>>18373841
>I, the greatest misogynist who ever lived
TOP KEK, look at this faggot speaking like a disney villain.

>>18373786
Sure, but I was just responding to what I saw in an article.

>>18370292
>>18370345

I find it odd that you are exasperated at the whining and bitching on 4chan, a backwater site of no influence on media, culture, and politics rather than the whining of the "woke" mob who are able to actually use their whining to shift media, culture, and academics.

It's like getting mad that a picture frame on the wall is misaligned while your house is burning.

In reality of course, you aren't actually tired of bitching - regardless of the opinion of the one bitching - like you imply. Rather, you are upset there is a place where people can collectively disagree with opinions you personally agree with. And don't pretend you call out all bitching equally otherwise these threads wouldn't bother you so much since ultimately it is a small group bitching about the bitching of a group much much much much much larger than them.

>>18370180
See >>18374088

>>18373366
Be it correct or incorrect in doing so, the article linked by your interlocutor implies the existence of such. This is the field on which the battle is being waged.
Where does it imply this? The article is very wishy-washy and self-contradictory, but quotes like "Padilla began to feel that he had lost something in devoting himself to the classical tradition" and "He noted that the classical tradition has often been put to radical and disruptive uses" imply that a "classical tradition" does indeed exist. If you believe the ilk of Senor Padilla, said tradition began in the "18th and 19th centuries", and acted as a "Euro-American foundation myth". This tradition, according to the very title of the article, is implicated in "whiteness", so deeply entangled that removing the latter from the former may very well turn out impossible.
In other words, there is this "Euro-American" history which has existed for over three centuries, which is in fact a "tradition", and which can be described as "white". Thus, even if you accept the framing of the nonwhite, faggot, and feminist academics whose (attempts at) thoughts comprise the article -- this framing being the belief that the world of classical Greece and Rome viewed itself proudly as a diverse one (hard to square with, for instance, the cause of the Social War: that the Romans were loath to offer citizenship to even other Italian tribes up until the sunset of the Republic), that the notion of "Western Civilization" only came into being during the Enlightenment -- you are forced to admit that there is a "white history", if only the history of the tradition of the Euro-American classicist scholars, which history is being rewritten by foreigners with no connection to this tradition and certainly no love for the country founded upon it.

In short: you are wrong.

>>18372726
It is real and it is a direct consequence of the enlightenment and enlightenment ideals. In its modern form it has overshot empowering the individual and mutated to group equality fetishism. "Whiteness" currently is the unique fetishization of every other "non white" culture and the unique self hatred of one's own culture and history. Your very post is rooted in white identity ideology.

>>18372628
>Germany's been among the least affected by mass immigration so far

>>18373841
It's like we're living in the 4th century AD all over again.

>>18374241
I don't agree with them you retard I just don't care. It's been 6 years since I first heard y'all start bitching about it. I took the redpill and found out a few years later how full of shit y'all were. You must understand, it does not bother me if every male is castrated and women kill humanity in a generation. I do not care. I've experienced every degree of fear mongering y'all and people on the left do. Neither of y'all have solutions and y'all ultimately are the cause of your own problems. If we wiped out politics I can assure you most problems of the world disappear.

>>18373512
>>18373625
SS stood for scout snipers and they apparently didn't realize what it meant. Probably one dickweed did

>>18374241
He's never going to see your point because his mind has so thoroughly internalized the mythology of faux-rebellion, of this weird, anachronistic understanding of an imagined past couched in the whig epistemology of history that he has taken wholesale from authorities he considers legitimate that it shuts down any attempt at trying to point out its numerous irreconcilable internal contradictions with just handwaving it away as /pol/tards talking nonsense.

>>18375394
>y'all
You're not welcome here.

>>18374467
lmao faggot

>>18375420
Texas shall take over the world. You will all say "fixing to" by the time the take over is complete.

>>18375394
>>18375420
Also I am warning you now, your fear mongering will backfire particularly without a solution. It's simply not humanly posdible to be that terrified 24/7 especially when there's no reason to be.

>>18371624
You're way too optimistic to think that the current status quo is going to collapse under its own absurdity and dysgenicity instead of institutions doubling down and pushing it even harder. Even if you take the wind out of their sails you're going to face decades of recuperation from this shit, an entire generation will have to deprogram themselves and an entire genreration will have to grow up in a post-clown world to make anything of note, if such a post-clown world is ever to come.

>>18375464
We must have optimism that one day the woke crowd will be made to feel like Hitlerjugend in 1946

>>18375464
I'm not saying its gonna be all sunshines and rainbows, communism did a number on eastern europe, but it did eventually collapse as a result of being a genuinely bad and harmful ideology though after nearly 50 hard years.

>>18375464
>>18375480
>>18375496
Can we all remember that the solution is "just wait" when this anon step-by-stepped it for y'all? >>18370194

>>18375480
Practically helpless tools in the hands of an evil power? Are you sure you're not underplaying their agency, their responsibility for the situation we're in today?

>I'm not saying its gonna be all sunshines and rainbows, communism did a number on eastern europe, but it did eventually collapse as a result of being a genuinely bad and harmful ideology though after nearly 50 hard years.

And the elite of the communist regimes transferred their power over to the new system wholesale, where they didn't have to own up to their crimes, the institutions of culture and education remained in the hands of the faithful servants of the old system, and people are having unironic nostalgia for simpler times?

>>18375504
That guy is a retard to think that validity and merit of a theoretical framework has anything to do with its viability in contemporary academia.

From what I could gather he's so lost in this mythology of rebellion that mainstream academicists proclaim that he doesn't even realize that he's the establishment that is being propped up by institutions, rather than the subaltern, which he imagines to be the mainstream. What insight of note could come from someone with such a bizarro view of the world?

>>18375524
Conversely we have a guy desperately trying to discredit me because they can't cope with the answers in front of them.
Anyways, no that's just how reality works. You would just prefer to put nonsense out there and have people accept it and no, that won't work.

>>18375427
Seethe and sneed.

>>18375572
damn, you said "seethe", that'll really teach me

In the vast majority of cases, it won’t effect it at all and it will be completely forgotten by time

>>18375579
I also said "sneed". You conveniently left that out.

>>18370345
And yet here you are, bitching about bitching, pretending (or even worse, believing) that the whole board is in fact an amalgamation while you, hypocrite that you are, repose on your heightened individuality. Sincerely consider suicide.

>>18370180
We're fucked. Most people in English speaking countries possess a very low level of language knowledge. They speak in memes. The average person these days is disconnected, rootless, and probably hasn't read Beowulf for example. The historical revisionism going on elsewhere (e.g. in other fields and film) coupled with the entire revision of all works of literature means we are headed for a really dark place. I have seen men in their 40s dressing like teenagers and talking in Ebonics. I realized at this point, we were living in the end times of a civilization.

>>18370194
>japhetic theory
This was actually the first time I realized that Marxism was totally insane and that people who call themselves Marxists today do so only out of a desire to fill some void that the collapse of religion brought about.

>>18370751
What's CPI?

>>18375611
I'm not an individualist, everything comes from God for me.

>>18375625
I wish these ideas were analytically challenged more

>>18375637
>I wish these ideas were analytically challenged more
The biggest problem from my experience in academia is that the academics who know that things of that nature are horse shit see it as we do: It's so blatantly absurd and nonsensical that it's foolhardiness is so self-evident there is really nothing to "challenge" - if you understand my meaning. The problem is that, overall, in every Department of studies you are seeing the gradual infiltration with serious ideologically motivated sycophants (similar to the USSR mind you e.g. the "TRUST THE HECKIN SCIENCE!!" types are the same morons who blindly followed Lysenkoism) and an overall reduction in the quality and seriousness that the various "humanistic fields" are taking themselves.

I studied Law, but only briefly, and there things were rather sober and serious, with good conversation, dialogue, even lively debate at times. When I was studying aspects in the History Dpt. I found it to be the entire opposite side of the spectrum. It was a joke, it felt like high school with students either barely showing up or, if they did, contributing nothing to the course whatsoever. This is a serious dilemma, because once the History courses are subverted and poisoned then a civilization is left totally exposed to whatever plots the invasive types have for us - and I think this is really becoming glaringly more obvious as time goes on.

>>18375618
schizo, the general population has always been extremely uneducated and dumb, throughout the entirety of history. education, knowledge, reading books etc, was always a mark of privilege accessible to a tiny percentage of the population only. how are you retards coming up with these absolute brainlet takes, you've got brain damage.

>>18375655
I agree but until history departments develop working historicisms they are necessarily placed in bourgeouis and dilletante territory

>>18375655
history is always subverted, there is no objective way to know history

>>18375663
>schizo
How is it schizophrenic if I made a statement that you just confessed was largely true? You're a Jew or something? But you also ignore the broader implications and that this infection of reduction in quality is now spreading into the centers of academia. Go to any American or Western university campus and you will rapidly understand my meaning.

>>18375671
I agree, but if you haven't noticed in the West we are moving towards a Soviet style view of the objective nature of history. Take any class related to Colonization and you will completely understand my point. Actually, you even saying that could be enough for you to get a message from the Dean warning you to tread lightly.

>>18375690
>I agree, but if you haven't noticed in the West we are moving towards a Soviet style view of the objective nature of history. Take any class related to Colonization and you will completely understand my point. Actually, you even saying that could be enough for you to get a message from the Dean warning you to tread lightly.
The teaching of history has never been about teaching history. It’s always some sort of combination of propaganda and moral instruction.

>>18375690
western university? what the fuck does western mean? like, in scandinavia? in france? in portugal? austria? switzerland? germany? these are all countries with a wildly different education system and culture. you do not know what you are talking about. probably in your shithole country, which is of course america, this statement may apply. fucking burger. stop thinking america is the world.

anyhow, you are schizophrenic because your statement implies that the majority of the population used to be more educated and well-read historically than now. that is simply not true. the majority of the population has always been uneducated, point blank. it is just factually true. it is useless to argue about.

>>18375780
These posts are starting to sound like a bot wrote them. Zero thread of thought running through any of it, just inarticulate screeching into the void.

>>18375725
this

>>18375783
zero thread of thought? you're saying that people are more uneducated right now than ever. i am saying it is not true. sorry, is that too conceptually complicated for you?

>>18375780
I have studied in 5 different countries. France, UK, the United States, Poland, and Germany.

>>18375780
>anyhow, you are schizophrenic because your statement implies that the majority of the population used to be more educated and well-read historically than now. that is simply not true. the majority of the population has always been uneducated, point blank. it is just factually true. it is useless to argue about.
I never implied this. Strawman. You're confirmed a Jew.

>>18373366
Black history? Just kidding, I already know you would say that they were removed from their actual varied cultures so they had no choice but to identify plainly as black. Niggers lmao bottom text

>>18375417
Lmao fag alert put down the thesaurus retard you're on 4chan

>>18375780
What an odd definition of schizophrenic. This anon >>18377458 is right, you are starting to discredit your own arguments.

>>18377814
haha yes dude totally, except >>18377458 isn’t replying to me you fucking monkey

>>18377840
Johnny, you don't need to be on the spot. It's only the two of us here.

>>18377442
It's one of those things where there is still a great deal of difference between groups of blacks internationally and even just within the new world, so that claim doesn't even make sense. And with each of the groups he mentioned, you can always break them down into various sub groups and claim those are the more legitimate one. His is among the most braindead points people tend to trot out.

>>18370586
Crude though it is it's written by someone who can identify with and appreciate the warrior spirit.

>>18370180
Why do people here care about literature if you guys don't even read?

>>18375625
all ideology is a substitute for religion, who knew people like believing things rather than staring at concrete empty brained all day fuck you

>>18379713
For /lit/, literature is a vague signifier of its apparent (if only ever self-affirmed) superiority. Given that literature only functions as a marker of a superiority already felt, instead of a means of becoming superior, there's no need to ever read, but the ever-shifting definition of good or proper literature must always be defended from the outgroup, because any such perceived attack constitutes an attack on /lit/.

>>18370586

Because the anon who wrote it actually put some effort into it.