/lit/ - Literature

>>18365278
What academics are you referring to?

>>18365308
Everyone of them. You have to realize, isn't it strange how Nietzsche could get such a big outlet in academia after the war of 1945 without being completely castrated? On the one hand the west was focused on promoting liberalism and de-nazification but academia wanted to prompt up Nietzsche? They turned him into a fucking proto-Jordan Peterson self-help, twisted his words of "God is dead" to mean "buttsex in bathroom stalls for all" ala Michel Foucault. This is what Nietzsche meant to people in the 60s-70s

With the rise of the alt-right in 2017 and the promotion of Nietzsche by figures like Richard Spencer and BAP, academia realized that they no longer could hide or twist the fact that Nietzsche is temperamentally a fascist so they don't talk about him anymore or attack anyone who is a follower of Nietzsches philosophy

>>18365278
fuck off with this gay shit, look at his face, that's all you need to know

>>18365358
Well, name the most important ones.

Read Bataille and Deleuze if you're so into wholesome Nietzschean pornographer-writers

>>18365423
I'm watching a lecture on YT by a professor named Robert C. Solomon. I've seen this sentiment many times amongst normies and professors. They love to reduce Nietzsche to just a cultural commentator and a self-help type guy without ever addressing the deeply imbedded anti-liberal, anti-egalitarian underpinning of his whole philosophy

They love to mention how he wouldn't have been a Nazi, but never mention that Nietzsche wouldn't have been a Nazi for the simply fact that he would view the NSDAP as too democratic, too populistic and not elitist and anti-liberal enough

>>18365308
the ghosts twitter and /pol/ made him believe that swarm academia

>>18365470
>ithout ever addressing the deeply imbedded anti-liberal, anti-egalitarian underpinning of his whole philosophy
even an undergraduate knows these things though

>>18365517
I literally provided an example, you want me to provide a list for you too? Ask yourself, why was Nietzsche appropriated in the mid 20th century and how could he be right after the war? Why don't academics read someone like Evola for instance? Because they can't appropriate him and twist his words, Nietzsche is famous for being vague so they reduce him to a mere cultural critiquer

>>18365423
Hannah Arendt

>>18365531
there's this notion that Nietzsche wasn't political and it's the most prevailing notion about him in academia. Ask any professor and they will just say "no, he just care about cultural institutions"

>>18365278
BAP just introduced you grogs to the intellectual history that puppeteers you. His mission to get the RW grog to embrace Power is comically impotent despite it giving him a great position to grift. Nietzsche was so embraced by the leftist cause and the post-moderns precisely because it is fuel for the status machinery in your bones and they sold it to you and your parents. You are grogs and will stay grogs.

>>18365571
t. gaslighting douchebag

>>18365358
>twisted his words of "God is dead" to mean "buttsex in bathroom stalls for all" ala Michel Foucault. This is what Nietzsche meant to people in the 60s-70s
You've never read a book in your life.

>>18365278
>>18365358
>>18365470
Turning Nietzsche into a fascist is the second or third most boring thing you can do with him. But, actually, that would be a step above what you're doing, because you're not even a fascist. No one in today's world who calls themselves a fascist really is. The old fascists read Marx and Proudhon and Sorel and Maurras and Marinetti. Today's "fascists" read——some Twitteroid who represents himself with a picture of some triangular looking tard at the beach. Or that Italian sex wizard Evola. If you want to be a right-wing Nietzschean, read Strauss or Ludovico or Spengler or Sloterdijk or Mishima. But Mishima read Bataille too. And he probably would have read Foucault, had he lived long enough to see the publication of Foucault's Discipline and Punish and the History of Sexuality. Would Nietzsche, the man who lauded Petronius' Satyricon, really have anything to do with the Nazis and their hatred of "degenerate art"? Not even broaching the topic of anti-Semitism.

Only poets can really understand Nietzsche.

>>18365598
Thanks for the recommendations, will look check them out

>Not even broaching the topic of anti-Semitism.
I also laugh when I read or hear this, he may not have been an "muh anti-semite" but he certainly thought that jews were swindling, self interested, deceptive and manipulative people, and this is what he loved about them. I too think that Europeans should be more like Jews, only by being the better Jew can you out-jew the jew

>>18365388
Fag. Why care what someone looks like, unless you want to fuck them

>>18365278
BAP is literally some soft faced romanian academic faggot.

>>18365637
You're extremely retarded.

Read Nietzsche and Philosophy by Deleuze and grow at least 3 brain cells.

>>18365780
not an argument, imagine thinking you can sense someone intelligence from a 4chan post. this exposes you as the even bigger retard

>>18365784
I will stick to reading Nietzsche himself thank you, primary source you know

>>18365598
>But Mishima read Bataille too.
source?

>>18365598
I also remember Mishima saying one of the only contemporary western authors who interested him was Klossowski, and Klossowski's book is one of the key texts underpinning french nietzscheanism.

People would have a significantly easier time with french nietzscheanism if they took the french at their word as nietzscheans instead of simply assuming it's all about bending nietzsche to some nefarious communist purpose. There's very little in the text of eg Deleuze to even support such a reading- retards who get their opinions from RW twitter accounts just assume it because the french were ok with inconsequential shit like fucking boys or whatever

>>18365598
Yeah N. certainly wouldn't be a liberal, but it's hard to imagine someone who so viciously attacked Christianity for distracting people from themselves going for the romantic nostolgia of fascism.

>>18365598
I've joked before that literally Foucault's entire project comes from one section of the Gay Science (I think it's section 8? Somewhere in the opening bits) where Nietzsche lists off a series of historical undertakings he wants to see- I think it literally includes a history of madness and of sexuality as well as other things like histories of monastic practices & diet

>>18365851
I read that recently, I think you may be right lol

>>18365807
1. You are probably too stupid to do that if you post here
2. Deleuze is kino

>>18365780
Not an argument

>>18365851
"Something for the industrious. - Anyone who now wishes to make a study of moral matters opens up for himself an immense field of work. All kinds of passions have to be thought through separately, pursued separately through ages, peoples, great and small individuals; their entire reason and all their evaluations and modes of illuminating things must be revealed! So far, all that has given colour to existence still lacks a history: where could you find a history of love, of avarice, of envy, of conscience, of piety, of cruelty? Even a comparative history of law or even of punishment is so far lacking entirely. Has anyone done research on the different ways of dividing up the day or of the consequences of a regular schedule of work, festivals, and the rest? Do we know the moral effects of foods? Is there a philosophy of nutrition? (The incessantly erupting clamour for and against vegetarianism proves that there is still no such philosophy!) Has anyone collected people's experiences of living together - in monasteries, for example? Has anyone depicted the dialectic of marriage and friendship? The customs of scholars, busi-nessmen, artists, artisans - have they found their thinkers? There is so much in them to think about! Everything that humans have viewed until now as the 'conditions of their existence' and all the reason, passion, and superstition that such a view involves - has this been researched exhaustively? To observe how differently the human drives have grown and still could grow depending on the moral climate -that alone involves too much work for even the most industrious; it would require whole generations, and generations of scholars who would collaborate systematically, to exhaust the points of view and the material. The same applies to the demonstration of the reasons for the variety of moral climates ('why does the sun of one fundamental moral judgement and primary value-standard shine here -and another one there?'). Yet another new project would be to determine the erroneousness of all these reasons and the whole essence of moral judgements to date. If all these jobs were done, the most delicate question of all would emerge in the foreground: whether science is able to furnish goals of action after having proved that it can take such goals away and annihilate them; and then an experimenting would be in order, in which every kind of heroism could find satisfaction - an experimenting that might last for centuries and eclipse all the great projects and sacrifices of history to date. So far, science has not yet built its cyclops-buildings; but the time for that will come, too."

>>18365807
It helps dispel common misinterpretations and its really good, just read it yah faggot

>>18365604
This.
All these pseuds putting words in Nietzsche's mouth don't even realize he speaks in aphorisms.
In other words they got filtered and didn't even know it kek

>>18365308
The ones whose males wear small hats and who typically hold gatherings on Saturdays.

>>18365388
He's cute though

>>18365358
have you even read Foucault?

>>18365598
Dude, it's 2021, get with the times. The Alt-Right loves Foucault and Sorel and Lasch and all that shit. I mean for fuck's sake academia's stance of Foucault and Deleuze is that they're crypo-Fascists for critiquing Progress.

>>18365358
how is Nietzsche fascist? Have you even read him? His constant disparaging of nationalism and praise of greek degeneracy should have clued you in.

>>18365826
Mishima wrote an essay on Bataille which is now the introduction to My Mother. Bataille is a heavy influence on Mishima.
>I first learned about George Bataille around 1925, and of all the modern European philosophers, I felt the greatest affinity with him.
From his last interview.

>>18365358
>Letter to Theodor Fritsch. March 29, 1887
>I ask in the future not to provide me with these [anti-Semetic] mailings: I fear, the end, for my patience. Believe me: this abominable "wanting to have a say" of noisy dilettantes about the value of people and races, this subjection to "authorities" who are utterly rejected with cold contempt by every sensible mind..., these constant, absurd falsifications and rationalizations of vague concepts "Germanic," "Semitic," "Aryan," "Christian," "German" – all of that could in the long run cause me to lose my temper and bring me out of the ironic benevolence with which I have hitherto observed the virtuous velleities and pharisaisms of modern Germans.
>And finally, how do you think I feel when the name Zarathustra is mouthed by anti-Semites?

The prostitution of Nietzsche's intellectual legacy to the fascists by his sister Elisabeth and her plagiarising husband still echo in the minds of dopamine-addled internet rightists to this day

>>18365542
Nietzsche himself says so in his book about Schopenhauer.
>"Every philosophy which believes that the problem of existence is touched on,
not to say solved, by a political event is a joke- and pseudo-philosophy. Many
states have been founded since the world began; that is an old story. How
should a political innovation suffice to turn men once and for all into contented
inhabitants of the earth?"

>>18366158
your thoughts are too surface level to post on /lit/.
never post on this board again. if you must post on 4chan go to /his/ where the level is lower.

>>18366430
Read Drochon's book on Nietzsche. He counters the popular notion that Nietzsche was apolitical in that book. The quote you posted isn't sufficient for reading the whole of Nietzsche's work in an apolitical light.

>>18365831
This is incorrect - he said that about Bataille, not Klossowski

>>18366535
Nietzsche also had views on diet and climate, and he actually stressed these as being important subjects. But if you look at what he wrote about it, it seems quite ridiculous, and his particular views on these subjects are clearly not important for his philosophy.

>>18365423
Walter Kaufmann obviously. His translations are excellent, however his weird liberal reinterpretation of Nietzsche is retarded (although arguably without this distortion it would still be unacceptable to discuss Neitzsche in academia because of his associations with le nazis)

>>18365598
>Marx and Proudhon
That's because Italian fascism evolved from Socialists of the time who rejected Marx, many of them (including Mussolini) inspired to do so by reading Nietzsche
>Sorel and Maurras and Marinetti
>Strauss or Ludovico or Spengler or Sloterdijk or Mishima
These are some of the most admired figures
among "fascists" today. You're a pseud
>And he probably would have read Foucault
Lol no

>>18366563
...Nietzsche followed Bismarck's whole political career from nearly beginning to end. He read the papers all the time and devised his concept of "grand politics" in opposition to Bismarck. You realize that, right?

The idea that any German who read the Greeks is going to vouch for an apolitical philosophy is simply unfounded.

>>18365278
i met a guy at a bar who was not an academic, but an antifascist activist who got into it because after reading neitzsche, and getting lost while drunk in Berlin, some anarchists helped him back to his hostel. the only people ruining neitzsche are fascists.

>>18365358
cringe

>>18366443
Muh projection. Relax, kid.

>>18366655
yeah and that's exactly why nietzsche would have been first in line at the BLM demonstrations.

Just write your own works of philosophy instead of arguing about this sperg.

I asked this question on twitter, and had only few interactions: how many have actually read Bronze Age Mindset?

Low interaction on that sphere of twitter suggests many haven't.. I would think that even less have read Nietzsche, or really Strauss whom I think is necessary to understand BAP as BAP comes from straussian school originally

fuck off

>>18366665
cringe and digits prove this

>>18366640
>Nietzsche followed Bismarck's whole political career from nearly beginning to end
"What is it that I have never forgiven Wagner? The fact that he condescended to the Germans - that he became a German Imperialist"
"On the other hand, I am perhaps more German than modern Germans - mere Imperial Germans - can hope to be,- I, the last anti-political German." - From Homo Ecce.
>The idea that any German who read the Greeks is going to vouch for an apolitical philosophy is simply unfounded.
Blatant non-sequitur..

>>18366693
Anti-political in that context meant in relation to Bismarck and the German nationalists of his time. Nietzsche still posited his hyperborean grand politics and sought to cause real change in the world. The problem with advancing the notion that he was apolitical is you run the risk of placing him in the sphere of artists only, which people like Nehamas have done... even though his philosophy is not just for artists, and certainly is not in the realm of mere imagination / fiction.

>>18366716
The kernel of Nietzsche's philosophy is apoltical, because it is unconcerned with anything other than affirming what is, it isn't dependent on any particular political organization. This doesn't mean that Nietzsche himself was necessarily apoltical, but that his philosophy isn't tied to any particular politcal structure.

>>18366655
You know you can just namedrop philosophers while having 0 reading comprehension, or even not reading right?

I mean, look at Marx for example. Every bourgeoise dick-gurl thinks Marx was a race and trans activist, but when you actually talk about Marxism they grow scared and angry.

Did you guys read his phd thesis on Nietzsche and Plato?

>>18365388
if you’re referring to the alleged dox, I’m sorry to inform you that it is not him.

>>18365278
don’t even try anon. /lit/ is filled with faggots.

>>18366378
my german Version of eroticism includes my mother but doesnt include mishimas essay... if its short maybe you could take pics and post them???

>>18365598
>Would Nietzsche, the man who lauded Petronius' Satyricon, really have anything to do with the Nazis and their hatred of "degenerate art"? Not even broaching the topic of anti-Semitism.

Wasn't Carmina Burana liked by the Nazis?

>Several performances were repeated elsewhere in Germany. The Nazi regime was at first nervous about the erotic tone of some of the poems,[9] but eventually embraced the piece. It became the most famous piece of music composed in Germany at the time.[10] The popularity of the work continued to rise after the war, and by the 1960s Carmina Burana was well established as part of the international classic repertoire. The piece was voted number 62 at the Classic 100 Ten Years On and is at number 144 of the 2020 Classic FM Hall of Fame.[11]

>>18365826
lmao

>>18365896
>You are probably too stupid to do that
If you think that's the case, why are you suggesting Deleuze? He's harder to read than Nietzsche.

>>18365767
This. That twitter fag who talks about having burger shits at the doctor's/dentist is more Nietzschean than BAP who is scared of women and showing his face.

>>18367307
>Carmina Burana

>>18367614
lmao

>>18366430
This is a retarded take. Nietzsche is a pessimist who rejects herd morality and regards man as a fallen animal. Of course he doesn't believe in the creation of a state that will solve the tensions within man that lay at the origin of philosophical inquiry. But he repeatedly emphasizes a disdain for democratic politics in contrast to grand political institutions that could operate over long time horizons. This is a direct consequence of his belief in a literal biological degeneration in Europeans and the mixing of classes resulting in a lack of individuals capable of real leadership and the threat of herd morality extinguishing this type of individual.

>More than just Indian wars and Asian intrigues might be needed to relieve Europe of its greatest danger – inner
rebellions might be needed aswell, the dispersion of the empire into small bodies, and, above all, the introduction of parliamentary nonsense, added to which would be the requirement that every man read his newspaper over breakfast. This is not something I am hoping for. I would prefer the opposite, – I mean the sort of increase in the threat Russia poses that would force Europe into choosing to become equally threatening and, specifically, to acquire a single will by means of a new caste that would rule over Europe, a long, terrible will of its own, that could give itself millennia-long goals: – so that the long, spun-out comedy of Europe’s petty provincialism and its dynastic as well as democratic fragmentation of the will could finally come to an end. The time for petty politics is over: the next century will bring the struggle for the domination of the earth – the compulsion to great politics.

Nietzsche's rejection of the "politics" of his day was a rejection of politics defined along the lines of modern democratic states and provincial nationalisms. In The Antichrist he talks about his admiration for the Roman Empire and even the Catholic Church at the point of the Renaissance. There is no way around his illiberal politics so leftoids just obscure the discussion because they only want to appropriate his amorality or anti-Christian stance to justify their disgusting habits.

>>18365598
>If you want to be a ghāzi, first you must read the jewish talmud and all the hadiths

>>18368005
Thank you for the solid clarification, anime girl.

>>18367199
I'll spare you my scribbles and post screencaps from the epub. ISBN 0714530042 if you want to purchase a physical copy or acquire it otherwise.

>>18368094

>>18368098

>>18368101

>>18365278
UNLEASH THE NIETZSCHE

>>18368103

>>18365598
Nietzsche said the only acceptable form of a state is the racial state

>>18366430
How do you people think a philosophy aimed at producing a new aristocracy is apolitical? It's not just a metaphor (though it's also not just the ancien regime). Nietzsche's whole concern is about high culture, which has political conditions. This isn't some ancillary part of his thought. It just doesn't appear to be 'political philosophy' because Nietzsche is not interested in imagining and legislating for an ideal society (ie identifying 'the good' or 'the just' like Plato). He is interested in the new aristocrats themselves, not in a specific political form.

Also @ the people that think Nietzsche would have been attracted to fascism- it's blatantly absurd given his attitudes towards everybody recognizable as a protofascist, his contempt for mass politics, his dislike of nationalism/conservativism, his consistent stance that we should ALLOW the dying to die, and his stance that we cannot simply retreat backwards into tradition.

>>18368094
god it just reads like your run of the mill lit journal. if mishima were alive in the oughts, he'd be prancing around brooklyn in a mid-drift and sipping bubble tea with an n+1 under his arm.

OP name one academic nietzche scholar or interpreter or whatever and how they butchered neechie

Oh wait you don’t know any hava

>>18365470
> ALL OF ACADEMIA DID THIS

> ONE YOUTUBE LECTURE

ok

> They love to reduce Nietzsche to just a cultural commentator and a self-help type guy without ever addressing the deeply imbedded anti-liberal, anti-egalitarian underpinning of his whole philosophy

Yeah some do this, not ALL OF academia though.

>>18366156


> the alt right

I haven’t seen anyone new mention sorel in years, lasch is gay, and Foucault Isabel an innovation

>>18366535

>
Also read Dominic losurdos nietzche

>>18365534
>Why don't academics read someone like Evola for instance?
Why would anyone waste his time reading Evola? He was an ignorant and couldn't even do it with Nietzsche, who is pretty easy to read if you know what were his sources and the contexts he criticized. Even Guenon cringe himself to the bone after being cited by Evola, and Guenon was an illiterate too.

>>18366679

Honestly some have, it’s free on whatever book pirating sites and enough of them post selfies with it

>>18365278
shut the fuck up, jerkoff

>>18368118
I don't know what an n+1 is but yeah. There's a lot of anecdotal stories about Mishima flaming it up whenever he toured Europe and awkward esl shit like asking someone in London where the 'gay gymnasium' was.

>>18366558
This anon
>>18368094
posted the passage I was thinking of. Turns out it was both ;^)

>>18365571
I'm sorry, anyone care to explain what this troglodyte just gurgled at me?

>>18365358
>>18365278
tl;dr

>>18366682
Because he directly called out the folly of your argument.
I swear everyone in this thread is a retard. Reading through the replies has given me a headache.

>>18365358
Bataille pretty much admits that Nietzche was a fascist. And honestly, Bataille himself was a fascist. His works evoke it subconsciously.

>>18368287
Bataille’s own self-doubts have nothing to do with the bourgeois internet theater that fascism is today. He also literally equates the doctored misinterpretation of Nietzsche for the fascists with the betrayal of Christ, as seen in “Nietzsche and the Fascists.”
The cognitive dissonance and willful ignorance would be astounding if it wasn’t so predictable. This is what happens when your ideology is constructed entirely on top of social media algorithms.

>>18368113
>- I mean the sort of increase in the threat Russia poses that would force Europe into choosing to become equally threatening and, specifically, to acquire a single will by means of a new caste that would rule over Europe, a long, terrible will of its own, that could give itself millennia-long goals: – so that the long, spun-out comedy of Europe’s petty provincialism and its dynastic as well as democratic fragmentation of the will could finally come to an end.
And all this is totally meaningless today. This is on par with his views on diet.
"But as to German cookery in general what has it not got on its conscience I Soup before the meal (still called a/la tedesca in the Venetian cookery books of the sixteenth century); meat
boiled to shreds, vegetables cooked with fat and flour ; the degeneration of pastries into paperweights ! And, if you add thereto the absolutely bestial post-prandial drinking habits of the ancients, and not alone of the ancient Germans, you will understand where German intellect took its originthat is to say, in sadly disordered intestines"
>This isn't some ancillary part of his thought.
It is.

>>18368287
>Bataille himself was a fascist
lmao what are you talking about? he was clearly not

What's nietzschean about saving gay porn on your ipad?

>>18365358
>>18365278
no soul, pure reaction
>>18365598
soul, high level of understanding

>>18365278
The democratization of academia means that fundamentally any higher level of thought has to be misrepresented to be tangible for lower thinking beings. Take the example of Foucault; he's been reduced entirely to the study of prison architecture.

>>18366430
He says here that his philosophy isn't MERELY political you inbred nigger. His philosophy goes far and is meant to swipe all area's of life, including politics.

>>18366378
Yes he hates the burgeosi 'jew is merchant' type antisemitism, but he also thinks the jews are responsible for the subversion of the whole west into a slave morality. He doesn't care about 'Germans', he cares about the masters, which are the one who prevail in every area of life. White power is a concrete and political adaptation of Nietzsche's philosophy, just like the jews' subversion of the West and founding of Israel are. Do you not get it? War is the means for the master race, for the Übermensch. It's not about nationality it's about genetics.

>>18366873
that is 100% him. it has been confirmed many times. he's still a good looking fella.
>https://imgur.com/a/0i1yZNb

>>18371535
He's got the proper jaw for Nietzcheanism at least

>My plan? To build a database of the entire history of gay porn models. This I call The Heroic Ubermenscheanist Age Mindset.

>>18371535
Hi BAP

>>18370448
He explicitly calls for racemixing, and specifically with Jews.

>>18371584
And?

>>18369198
You think that the new aristocracy is ancillary? It's identical with 'reevaluation of all values'. They designate the same thing. It's his core moral project, literally the purpose behind his entire corpus.

I'll also say that yeah, if you're some pop-psych retard you can treat it like self help and ignore the shit about diet. But if you actually care about treating Nietzsche seriously as a thinker, and looking at how he thought of himself, you would legitimately have to be retarded to ignore the stuff about diet. It's all over his work (and his biography) and is key to his conception of values connecting to life-conditions

>>18365598
Thank you for saving me from having to interact with the retards in this thread.
Have a blessed day, anon.

>>18371535
It’s not him.

>>18371625
>You think that the new aristocracy is ancillary? It's identical with 'reevaluation of all values'. They designate the same thing. It's his core moral project, literally the purpose behind his entire corpus.
I'm saying Nietzsche's views on politics doesn't matter, just like his retarded views on diet doesn't matter. This doesn't mean Nietzsche isn't right in recognizing that diet and politics are important subject. Since Nietzsche's philosophy is amor fati and anti-idealistic immoralism, there is absolutely no point in trying to find justification for some particular political system in his philosophy. Because it doesn't ultimately matter.

>>18365358
All you had to do was mention Walter Kaufmann and almost everyone would have agreed with you

>>18365581
Yet he's still right, had a prof interpret the bit in genealogy of morals about justice turning in on itself as societies become richer as Nietzsche being optimistic...

>>18365598
Holy based. Got any links to Strauss' essays on Nietzsche? I've read his What is political philosophy?, Natural right and history and Xenophon's Hiero. I was very disappointed by his Nietzsche cocktease at the end of Natural Right and History, because his Nietzsche lecture recordings are great.

>>18365278
Nietzsche was an admitted relativist
his concept of "will to power" doesn't save people from nihilism, it delivers people straight to it
>DUDE JUST MAKE UP YOUR OWN PURPOSE IN LIFE, YOUR OWN ETHICS, YOUR OWN TRUTH, etc...
what could possibly be nihilistic than that?

>>18371945
>DUDE JUST MAKE UP YOUR OWN PURPOSE IN LIFE, YOUR OWN ETHICS, YOUR OWN TRUTH
That isn't Nietzsche. Post-structuralists, maybe.

>>18366443
says the guy who thinks Nietzsche a fascist. You either have never read Nietzcsche or don't know what fascism is. You see things in black and white, you are not either a degenerate nihilist or a fascist, there's other political systems that are closer to him than fascism.

>>18371945
Imagine being so pathetic that you can't embrace your own values as self-created and an expression of your Will and rather have to imagine them as some transcendent God you submit to. Faith is truly the only form of conviction and valuation that Slaves can understand.

>>18371878
If you don't care about Nietzsche's politics then you don't care about his philosophy either. These things don't exist in a vacuum for him; they are intricately tied together and related. His philosophy may encompass more than just politics, but if you neglect to factor in his politics then your understanding of him is partial and ultimately wrong. His "grand politics," for example, is both a political and a philosophical project.

>>18365278
What the fuck is BAP, can you fucking mongoloids not have your own opinions without running after some retarded social media personality? Jesus Christ I hate this world

>>18371878
on one level, if you are just saying 'i disagree with Nietzsche', that's fine. But if we're talking about what's important for him, it's absurd to say that politics are not important. And further, I think that if you subscribe to his general critique of morality, he is actually doing exactly the same thing with politics as he is with morality. Just as he doesn't posit 'the good' in itself, neither does he imagine an ideal society- but he is still thinking ABOUT morality and ABOUT politics. So you are right that it is not about the justification of a particular political system, but nonetheless it is political, and the production of the higher man has political conditions (hence the disdain for democracy)

>>18366158
Why would he praise napoleon if he didn't think nationalism would have some use?

>bro you misread Nietzsche
>nah bro you misread Nietzsche
how often do we need to have this fucking thread

>>18373183
The guy who replies to the OP and got a bunch of replies was being a dishonest faggot.

The OP might have went a bit far with Nietzsche, but he did touch on a concrete point: Nietzsche is not fucking egalitarian and frankly neither is Marx, yet both are used today to grow the progressive agenda.

Why rebuff someone for pointing that out? No virtuous reason to do so.

>>18373030
>the production of the higher man has political conditions (hence the disdain for democracy)
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. You might think we live in a democracy, but you might also think we live in an oligarchy. The proper conditions may appear for some people and not for others. In my case, I think politics is over. It's dead and irrelevant. Nietzsche could dream of some new aristocracy wielding political power, because he lived more than a century ago. Anyone who has such ideas today is a fool.

The more i read Nietzsche and the more i read about Nietzsche, the more i realized i will just take what i want from him and do what i want with it, and that all this discussion about what Nietzsche would've wanted/done is pointless.

>>18373243
>all this discussion about what Nietzsche would've wanted/done is pointless

This, but also it shouldn't surprise us since most people dive into Nietzsche before reading any philosophy or worse, limit themselves to him alone. It's only natural that every thread devolves into finger pointing over who misunderstood him the most. The man was not a systematic thinker

>>18373242
>Nietzsche could dream of some new aristocracy wielding political power, because he lived more than a century ago. Anyone who has such ideas today is a fool.
But that's what we're getting. What do you think crypto, for example, is all about? Nietzsche also foresaw the use of corporations ("private enterprises" or something like that in his books) in regulating social behaviors among the masses, as well as in overseeing both individual and communal art projects.

is BAP a youtuber?

>>18365358
no you can't just release writings which we don't approve of

>>18365358
why is it always right wing writing that causes such a shitstorm? It's not even good or profound, it's borderline schizo in some areas, but it always causes a stir. Why? People like this give it far more attention than it otherwise would've gotten. Now you've introduced a bunch of progressive grad students to a far right text.

>>18373274
>But that's what we're getting.
I think there is a difference between being very wealthy and between having special political privileges. I also think it is mostly those who are already wealthy who are getting wealthier.
>What do you think crypto, for example, is all about?
What is it about and how does it relate to the formation of a new aristocracy?
>Nietzsche also foresaw the use of corporations ("private enterprises" or something like that in his books) in regulating social behaviors among the masses, as well as in overseeing both individual and communal art projects.
I don't understand what you mean with this. Corporations aren't exactly funding Nietzschean art. I would say the art they are funding is mostly the opposite of what Nietzsche would have liked.

doesnt bap have a phd? he is an acadamia nut

>>18373344
it has a lot of pure fervor. it’s attractive in that way. hasnt been sterilized or systematized. of course this is all untrue. but it does feel that way.

Bronze Age Mindset is definitely a fascinating read. It did make me see things in a different light. Especially when it talks about evolution

>>18373381
>I think there is a difference between being very wealthy and between having special political privileges.
Not in current society. When you have the money, you have special political privileges. Of course, you have to be clever as to how you use those privileges so you don't lose them.

>What is it about and how does it relate to the formation of a new aristocracy?
Reallocating wealth from the democratic state to enterprising individuals, which as I explained above, equals special political privileges.

>I don't understand what you mean with this.
Exactly what I wrote. Nietzsche predicted that corporations would be used in the ways that they are used today.

>Corporations aren't exactly funding Nietzschean art.
They fund a mixture of art, as he predicted they would. Both individual and communal art projects are funded regularly.

Does BAP post here?

>>18373276
No he has a twitter account does podcasts and has published 1 very good book

>>18373447
I think you are blind to the trend of where society is heading. Now, I'm no fortune teller, so I could be wrong, but I don't think the politcal structure is moving away from social democracy.

>>18373492
>I don't think the politcal structure is moving away from social democracy.
It doesn't need to; not yet at least. If you want to understand this better and what Nietzsche's predictions and political proposals entailed, I once again suggest this book >>18366535

>>18365598
>Turning Nietzsche into a fascist is the second or third most boring thing you can do with him.
What are #1 and #2?

>>18373589
#1 - Turning him into a democrat.
#2 - Turning him into an incel / homosexual.

Stop selfposting BAP, it's embarrassing

>>18373344
>>18365358
Far right and “muh nazis” alarmist on 4chan...
And people call /co/ a tranny board

>>18373695
Im not an alarmist, i just find it curious that people never go apeshit over left wing shit or even religious extremism.

>>18367573
Not necessarily. His work on Nietzsche is very accessible and straight forward. I've read numerous secondary texts on Nietzsche, and Deleuze's is in the top 3. Read it

>>18365831
Imo Klossowski understood Nietzsche better than anyone else
Although it's never explicitly referenced in the novel, I'm convinced that Nietzsche and the Vicious Circle was the most influential text on Mishima's Temple of the Golden Pavilion. The threads between those three are very interesting, and should be examined more closely

>>18368175
>asking someone in London where the 'gay gymnasium' was
kek, source on all of that?

>>18365358
You are such a meme brained retard

>>18372794
Imagine thinking values matter if we're are just atoms and nothing more than that. God exists, and you know it's true in your bones - we all know it on a certain level.

what's the difference between this BAP guy and icycalm?

>>18375348
God exists as will and values are a localized expression of will.

>>18365571
shut up borzoi, your stupid book sucks

>>18374998
Also would like to hear the full story

>>18366655
Nietszche on Socialism

>Socialism—as the logical conclusion of the tyranny of the least and the dumbest, i.e., those who are superficial, envious, and three-quarters actors—is indeed entailed by "modern ideas" and their latent anarchism; but in the tepid air of democratic well-being the capacity to reach conclusions, or to finish, weakens. One follows—but one no longer sees what follows. Therefore socialism is on the whole a hopeless and sour affair; and nothing offers a more amusing spectacle than the contrast between the poisonous and desperate faces but by today's socialists—and to what wretched and pinched feelings their style bears witness!—and the harmless lambs' happiness of their hopes and desiderata. Nevertheless, in many places in Europe they may yet bring off occasional coups and attacks: there will be deep “rumblings” in the stomach of the next century, and the Paris commune, which has its apologists and advocates in Germany, too, was perhaps no more than a minor indigestion compared to what is coming* But there will always be too many who have possessions for socialism to signify more than an attack of sickness— and those who have possessions are of one mind on one article of faith: “one must possess something in order to be something.” But this is the oldest and healthiest of all instincts: I should add, “one must want to have more than one has in order to become more*” For this is the doctrine preached by life itself to all that has life: the morality of development. To have and to want to have more—growth, in one word—that is life itself. In the doctrine of socialism there is hidden, rather badly, a “will to negate life”; the human beings or races that think up such a doctrine must be bungled. Indeed, I should wish that a few great experiments might prove that in a socialist society life negates itself, cuts of! its own roots. The earth is large enough and man still sufficiently unexhausted; hence such a practical instruction and demonstratio ad absurdum would not strike me as undesirable, even if it were gained and paid for with a tremendous expenditure of human lives.

>>18365278
The irony is that man in OP's picture probably doesn't read other than to get information on the market.

>>18376104
BAP is a caricature in comparison.

>>18365358
Heidegger also got a big outlet in academia, and he was openly Nazi, so was Gehlen for that matter. The philosophical academy doesn't hate nazis nearly as much as you think they do, they just hide it very well, they know the price that the Abrahamic establishment will exact from them if they don't.

>>18365598
>Strauss or Ludovico or Spengler or Sloterdijk
Gross. Mishima is the only decent author you listed. None of these are even particularly intelligent.

>>18365930
It's another episode of
>my interpretation right, yours wrong

>>18371878
>I'm saying Nietzsche's views on politics doesn't matter,
To you.

>>18374966
What are the others?

>>18373476
Obviously. Why else would there be two BAP threads

>>18376975
What a consoomer

>>18376975
is he forgetting about the countless of lives that never had the chance to live a fulfilling life without the help of socialism?

>>18365278
>bro lets just arbitrarily return to old ways of thinking because.................................................... it-its like based as fuck and bugmen will totally seethe aha

>>18373344
>>18373707
Well, to be blunt, the left wing is effectively domesticated and had been for nearly a century. Religious extremism, likewise is domesticated in the case of Christianity (you'll notice Islam and other traditions do cause stirs with their extremist material). The right wing, for all its flaws, isn't entirely domesticated y our liberal world order, making it an actual threat (unlike the left, which is more of a harmless release of frustration).

>>18377368
>become a cog in a soulless machine
>"Fulfilling life"

You down with BAP? Yeah you know me

>>18377038
To his philosophy.

>>18369488
Not the original commenter but I would say the key word in that comment is "subconsciously"

Richard Wolin has a good chapter in "The Seduction of Unreason" where he dives into how Bataille and Foucault worked with many themes and concepts that were common to the fascist project - also can't forget that Walter Benjamin once accused Bataille of working for the fascists (despite their friendship)

>>18365278
>The domestication of Nietzsche by academia has been the greatest tragedy of the 20th century. BAP is the Nietzsche redeemer we much needed. The facade of academia is coming down with BAP which is why they hate him and discourage us from reading him
This is exactly what those "academics" said. Die retard

>>18365784
>Nietzsche and Philosophy by Deleuze
Read it in french or at least the german translation. The english one is garbage.

I read the first thirty pages. It's superficial and light. It's not profound or interesting. It will be profound only for those who haven't read anything really profound, Western canon say. It might be a good introduction to /lit but I can't bring myself to finish it after just thirty pages. It's boring edgelordism.

>>18371535
Wow, I used to live five miles away from him. Shame we never met.

>>18365426
you clearly didn't understand a word of Deleuze

>>18381599
t. got filtered but too prideful to admit it

>>18371945
>DUDE JUST MAKE UP YOUR OWN PURPOSE IN LIFE, YOUR OWN ETHICS, YOUR OWN TRUTH, etc...
>what could possibly be nihilistic than that?
Is that nihilistic? I thought nihilism was the complete lack of meaning. Idk. Seems like everyone is working from a different definition of nihilism

>>18373183
That's every lit thread about every author NO THAT S NOT THE RIGHT INTERPREATION YOU MUST READ X TEXT ACCORDING TO Y INTERPRETATION AS POSTULATED BY WALTER C TIBBON IN HIS ANTHOLOGY AWWWWWWWW

>>18373344
It's just 4Chan. Unplug or try going to other social media. 4Chan attracts the mentally ill.
It's the same shit every time I come on her: Western decline, pedos, DA JOOZ, etc. Utterly predictable. You all make me so bored.

>>18381617
did u go to the same school at the same time?

>>18381779
>It's the same shit every time I come on her: Western decline, pedos, DA JOOZ, etc. Utterly predictable. You all make me so bored.
when something else happens, we'll give u a buzz. faggot.

>>18365843
Most fascists either reject christianity or simply want to use it as tool to shape society.

>>18373243
>The redditor uses Nietzsche to support his beliefs in egalitarianism

>>18366873
>alleged

People seem to not realise that Cuckbot need not have bothered doxxing him, his name was on the Gumroad receipts for ages. I presume it was intentional.

Hilariously, he just ignored it any carried on as normal and no one cared. Meanwhile Kantbot is still fat