/lit/ - Literature

>>18348933
>Name one (1) contemporary philosopher whose work is relevant
fixed

>>18348938
yuk hui

>>18348944
unknown even by his mother

>>18348933
Nassim Taleb

>>18348944
>"Art and Cosmotechnics opens the way to rethinking technology beyond Gestell, by exploring the obscure paths of the experience of art.”
what is this bs

>>18348933
Who do you think (((owns))) the universities?

>>18348959
nothing to do with it
it is the system itself that is the problem
without a diploma no one will read your work, no one will publish you
you have no future in philosophy without the stamp

Robert Anton Wilson

>>18348969
we talked about philosophers not some bs occultist larper

>>18348952
he has a phd in his field of expertise

>>18348959
Capitalism has corrupted everything. Try to think like a reasonable human being for once

>>18348933
Academia has a bunch of hoops to jump, but on the flipside, autodidacts are 99% of the time losers who don't actually try hard at all and just want to shortcircuit themselves to success without reading or learning enough, so of course their products are shitty and ignored in turn. Think about it: if you disliked academia, but were honest about your learning, you would still use the system and then break off or otherwise work within it to change it, while milking it for the resources it gives you and the free money it gives you (paid tuition + stipends).

>>18348981
Capitalism is one side of a two sided coin called the shekel

>>18348981
Its much more reasonable to blame an abstract economic system for the problems of the world. Who promotes that system?

>>18348933
Ted Kaczynski

>>18349108
not recognized

>>18349118

>>18348981
Capitalism isn't a system... Come on tranny

>>18348981
>Socialism
Power is handed from the (((megacorporations))) to the (((government)))
>Communism
Power is handed from the (((megacorporations))) to the (((government)))

Eric Hoffer was well received as a social and moral philosopher while having no qualifications in the field.

>>18349063
Called state-capitalism

>>18349089
It’s not such an abstraction when it’s the token we’re all made to value above even human life. At gunpoint it’s all we’re allowed to rent our freedom with.

>>18349268
That’s not socialism or communism. But I don’t care what you call it. I want:
Power is shared by all, locally

I mean I dont think he has it yet

>>18349108
Dude Kaczsynski had a PhD, he literally worked as a professor at a university

>>18349010
>autodidacts are 99% of the time losers who don't actually try hard at all and just want to shortcircuit themselves to success without reading or learning enough
What can I say, I like to optimize for success.

>>18349010
Cringe.
>Think about it: if you disliked academia, but were honest about your learning, you would still use the system and then break off or otherwise work within it to change it, while milking it for the resources it gives you and the free money it gives you (paid tuition + stipends).
This is a retarded and wholly inefficient, obtuse way of going about things. I don't think you quite grasp we live in an era where EVERYTHING you can learn from books is FREE and available to you at HOME.

>>18349350
>PhD
In Mathematics, which I somehow doubt is relevant to writing a manifesto.

>>18349010
>and the free money it gives you (paid tuition + stipends)
lmao "free money", it's a job at that point you idiot. You are literally being paid to regurgitate academic papers.

>>18349369
The OP wasn't asking whether you think it's relevant, he was asking about PhDs

>>18349377
If you're being a literalist about it, sure. But I think he's more curious about how autodidacts can make due without having to resort to academia for clout.

>>18348933
If you’re “recognized” by academia it probably means your work is shit

>>18348955
Probably something farely simple.

Negarestani

>>18349308
kys tranny

>>18348933
Alasdair MacIntyre does not have a PhD. He got an MA and then started teaching while writing his first book. Since then, he has basically held a variety of temporary positions at various universities in the UK and the United States while producing incredibly insightful writing.
But he published his first book in the 1950s, and it is unlikely that worked for him then will work for you now.

>>18348933
>Name a single respected contemporary neurosurgeon who didn't go to medical school.

>>18349366
It's not free, and it's not available to you at home. I am at a university, and even we do not have access to everything.
>>18349373
No, you're being paid to spend as much or as little time as you like reading whatever you damn well please. It's awesome. You also have access to world-class healthcare for free, can take classes in whatever department you like for free, can travel anywhere in the world at the university's expense, and, most of the time, have few responsibilities beyond what you impose on yourself.

>>18348944
he not only has a phd, but is also habilitated, retard

>>18348933
Kripke

>>18350647
Oh it's you. Are you the guy who said his university could pay for his trip to Poland?

>>18350799
Yes. You should really spend more time in the library instead of whining about the supposed failures of the system on the internet.

>>18350814
So we meet again. But I'm not the OP this time. In fact, this is my second post in this thread

>>18348933
Kripke. He has received many awards and honorary degree, but his only "real" formal education is a Bachelor's degree in mathematics.

Saul Kripke is a contemporary and important philosopher, his work Naming and Necessity is considered one of the most important philosophical works of the 20th century.

While he has received many awards and honorary degrees, his only "real" formal education is a bachelor's degree in mathematics.

>>18349010
>Think about it: if you disliked academia, but were honest about your learning, you would still use the system and then break off or otherwise work within it to change it,
Non-sequitur when all the material you need is online or easy to access (I can literally walk into my state's university and request hard-to-find reading material).
>while milking it for the resources it gives you and the free money
Professors are notoriously underpaid for the hours they work. The working hours (lectures + personal student time + administration/misc. responsibilities) are enough to make the wages not even worth it. If you're serious about whatever you're studying you would be better off not sacrificing so much time to "intellectual work." Your post just doesn't make sense when put into perspective. I'm not trying to imply all academics are rubbish either, I know a few who bust their asses with the duties their university requires of them and still spend their free hours pursuing their main interests. I just can't say I envy their choice of "career."

>>18349366
>EVERYTHING you can learn from books
There is the know-what and the know-how. You can get the know-what from the Internet alright. The know-how - not quite. A good tutor puts your attention in the right place at the right text, allowing you to cut corners and get months to years ahead of autodidacts.

Granted you can probably find out and pay the professor for private guidance and classes, he will be surely most pleased with your offer unless he is some celebrity with his time booked out for two months away - if you can cover the price of his private classes, that is.

>>18350913
Human dialogue and guidance is not a material. No, flinging shit with anonymous retards on 4chan doesn't count as a philosophical dialogue.

>>18348981
>Try to think like a reasonable human being for once
Says the guy who wants to chop his dick off

I be dat person

>>18348933
Bronze age pervert

>>18349366
>EVERYTHING you can learn from books is FREE
Unless you're rich, it'd be impossible to study things that require lab experiments on your own, and even if you could, it'd be extremely unsafe. It'd be safe and cheaper to pay for university and use their labs, with a tutor by your side

>>18351334
Has a phd

>solves the is-ought conundrum

>>18348933

Neo-Diogenes

bump

>>18351539
I'll bite. How?

>>18350891
What the fuck, i honestly didn't know this.

>>18350913
>Non-sequitur when all the material you need is online or easy to access (I can literally walk into my state's university and request hard-to-find reading material).
Alright, go ahead and try. See how much they'll let you borrow, whether or not they'll give you access to journals, and whether or not they'll let you use their interlibrary loan system, all without being affiliated with the university.
>Professors are notoriously underpaid for the hours they work. The working hours (lectures + personal student time + administration/misc. responsibilities) are enough to make the wages not even worth it.
No they're not. They're paid quite well, especially if their research is good. They enjoy incredible job security, have access to resources that you have never even heard of, get more than a quarter of the year off work, get to publish in prestigious outlets, and, most importantly, are actually listened to. None of that is available to whiny autodidacts like yourself.

Freeman Dyson, famous physicist and inventor, as well as owner of the largest non-semitic nose, didn't have a PhD.

>>18348980
>implying philosophy isn't just occultist larp

>>18352022
universally preferable behavior

>>18352186
Imagine having all those benefits and still producing mediocre commentarial shit

>>18352203
not a philosopher

>>18348933
You cannot escape community consensus. You cannot compete with it either. As much as I hate the universities there IS a reason things are like this.

>>18348933
Are you the one making all these threads on this same topic lately, or is there a small group of you all committed to the same cope?

>>18350891
And with this, I hope we can never have this discussion again. Kripke is one of the most cited contemporary analytic philosophers, and proves that all the OPs of the world are unsuccessful not because of some academic conspiracy, but because their thoughts are mediocre.

>>18348933
>cool leather jacket man blocks your path

>>18352271
>You cannot escape community consensus. You cannot compete with it either. As much as I hate the universities there IS a reason things are like this.
I don't question peer-reviewing, I just think that in philosophy the community should be open to self-taught talents

>>18352377
If they let just anyone who evinced knowledge of philosophy in, how would they control the direction in which knowledge developed? If you ran a powerful institution, would you let just anyone who happened to know how it worked in, or would you restrict acceptance to carefully vetted and trained individuals from a few elite institutions?

>>18352377
>I don't question the institution of elitist gatekeeping, I just think there shouldn't be elitist gatekeeping.

>>18352391
>If they let just anyone who evinced knowledge of philosophy in
not what i said
>how would they control the direction in which knowledge developed?
that's a bad thing
the great historical philosophers did not have a certificate
>>18352395
peer-reviewing has its advantages, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater

>>18352312
Naming and Necessity was a Princeton lecture series. So he comes from the milieu.

>>18352276
What threads anon

>>18352426
>the great historical philosophers did not have a certificate
I'm pretty sure they did, at least all the ones from the past thousand years. Those who did not had a pedigree, e.g. Aristotle's pedigree was Socrates -> Plato -> Aristotle, and each studied under the other directly.

>>18348933
Christopher Langan's CMTU
Stefan Molyneux's UPB Anarchy
Nick Land's Marxist Acceleration

>>18352501
Nick Land has a PhD.

>>18351539
UPB is gold
I won't truly appreciate the achievement until I'm done with Kant and see that UPB is the grown up self correcting recursive categorical imperative.

>>18352520
>UPB
upb?

>>18352536
Universally Preferable Behavior

>>18348933
Donald Trump

>>18349366
>>18350913
The problem is that autodidacts are by and large losers who don't actually use all the free information you talk about at all. Largely because there is no prodding stick, no mentor structure, no peers or social groups, no challenges. But even without that, the real problem is that most autodidacts just lack it in them to be good autodidacts, so they do a shitty sloppy job. People who are serious about wanting to learn often do go straight into academia because it ensures they learn what they want and need in order to get where they want with knowledge. Nobody on this site that rags on academia actually has a PhD in philosophy and everyone who defends it does or is in the process of getting one. If you're stupid you'll pretend that means everyone who enters academia is already rotten, instead of realizing people who dislike academia (like me and others) still find value in its resources, resources which aren't limited to texts. Having human professionals to mentor you, answer you directly, and so forth is so much more efficient and fine-tuned than using search engines and tertiary source encyclopedic articles, or even sites like 4chan or whatever the fuck else (reddit or youtube or whatever). Meanwhile people ranting about how academia is no use are neither good autodidacts nor have any experience with academia. You guys are just pseuds with your own narratives to make you feel good about yourselves. It's not that you can't be a good autodidact, it's that most aren't, and you are probably not going to be a world famous philosopher that way, it's not some "academia mafia" so much as the impoverished status of the average autodidact. Admitting this doesn't mean you're suddenly endorsing academia's many vices. Learn some nuance in your lives if you're seriously planning to do philosophy, things aren't fucking black and white.
>>18349373
You didn't even read dude. "Tuition" and "stipend" are student terms. A job comes after you snag the PhD. A student isn't employed full-time and doesn't regurgitate academic papers for a living yet.

>>18352556
>The problem is that autodidacts are by and large losers who don't actually use all the free information you talk about at all. Largely because there is no prodding stick, no mentor structure, no peers or social groups, no challenges. But even without that, the real problem is that most autodidacts just lack it in them to be good autodidacts, so they do a shitty sloppy job. People who are serious about wanting to learn often do go straight into academia because it ensures they learn what they want and need in order to get where they want with knowledge. Nobody on this site that rags on academia actually has a PhD in philosophy and everyone who defends it does or is in the process of getting one. If you're stupid you'll pretend that means everyone who enters academia is already rotten, instead of realizing people who dislike academia (like me and others) still find value in its resources, resources which aren't limited to texts. Having human professionals to mentor you, answer you directly, and so forth is so much more efficient and fine-tuned than using search engines and tertiary source encyclopedic articles, or even sites like 4chan or whatever the fuck else (reddit or youtube or whatever). Meanwhile people ranting about how academia is no use are neither good autodidacts nor have any experience with academia. You guys are just pseuds with your own narratives to make you feel good about yourselves. It's not that you can't be a good autodidact, it's that most aren't, and you are probably not going to be a world famous philosopher that way, it's not some "academia mafia" so much as the impoverished status of the average autodidact. Admitting this doesn't mean you're suddenly endorsing academia's many vices. Learn some nuance in your lives if you're seriously planning to do philosophy, things aren't fucking black and white.
So what to do anon? How to be a good self-taught philosopher? I can't do the studies in question
I try to read histories of philosophy, find reading lists, or introductions to this or that philosopher

>>18352556
obsessed

>>18348952
His work is recognized by retarded overly online nerds who think if they regurgitate his poorly substantiated takes they will also be gifted with billions AUM. The only philosopher adjacent person who recognizes his work is Tyler Cowen, and Cowen isn't really a philosopher either (although Cowen's opinions are significantly less shit than Taleb's).

>>18352426
>peer-reviewing has its advantages, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater
the point is that it's a package deal, you won't have one without the other

>>18350208
Brainlet seethe

Eliezer Yudkowsky

>>18348933
>sit in on philosophy classes at university without being enrolled at that university
>profit
There, now you can be an autodidact.

>>18352259
So you need specifically have a philosophy to qualify as a philosophers according to you?

>>18348968
>without a diploma no one will read your work, no one will publish you
>you have no future in philosophy without the stamp
And that's a good thing. There's already too much shit to read. Having a way of pre selecting who is actually worth reading or not is a positive.

Im in STEM but i'd like to give my opinion on this topic. I feel like the PhD system has outlived its usefullness. Its origins lie in the catholic church, where the title "Doctor" was given based on length of service, rather than "original research". Indeed, the church didnt put much importance in originality, since innovation was more often seen as heretical than beneficial.
But right now, you need to do original research, and there is ultimately only so much "new" things to investigate before you start regurgitating or making shit up. In the long term, this is unsustainable, and in some fields we're already seeing it happen. What's worse is that in STEM, you need to produce positive results, and whether your research produces such results can be far beyond your influence, which means you can be punished for having scientific integrity.
It's simply unsustainable.

>>18352556
Discord servers staffed with professionals destroys your entire argument

>>18352787
This would work if the stuff put out by academicians wasn't just fodder

>>18352936
Most of it is, sure. But I don't see how getting rid of academia would solve the problem. It's not a perfect system but it's the best we can do.

>>18352980
>it's the best we can do.
No, it isn't.
But the educative system that lives on selling degrees needs it.

>>18349366
You're making a mistake if you think that thr studying material is the most important part of your education. You can read all you want, but without external confrontations this reading is mostly wasted. The decisive factor in academic education is the fact that (especially in your Ms and PhD years) you're discussing most of what you think with other knowledgeable and smart people all the time. To get this experience on the internet is almost impossible, and this leads autodidacts to having low standards, and to being clueless about any sensible objection that could be made to their theories, and to be incapable of not only responding to them, but also to process them emotionally (it really sucks when you have spent 2 years in your bedroom thinking about something, and then a rando comes and destroys your entire work with a couple of sentences).
Btw this is one of the first things philosophers understood. Plato and Aristotle wrote a lot about the necessity of discussion for the formation of a philosopher.

>>18352980
I'm not advocating for the total abolishment of universities, I think that's retarded

>>18352915
No it doesn't.
>>18352607
Just put in the effort for real. The problem with most autodidacts is they don't. There's unfortunately no great way to learn without professional mentors and curricula and all that sort of structure. Autodidacts cannot recreate that on their own, and there aren't people around to serve them for free, so they have to try their best on their own and get as far as they can like that. Wish you the best, but do try.

>>18353227
>No it doesn't
Cope

>>18348968
>without a diploma no one will read your work, no one will publish you
This is a huge cope, desu.
You can send papers to peer-reviewed journals. Before accepting it the reviewers do not have access to the identity of the author, which means that they cannot filter you out only because you have no formal education. Furthermore, if you can get published on good journals you can also get your books published: this is the route every non-tenured academic takes, and it is fully available to autodidacts
Autodidacts do not get published only because their work do not meet the standard of ANY serious journal in ANY philosophical branch/tradition (it's not even a "analytic philosophy" thing, since if it were autodidacts would be able to get published on non-analytic journals)

>>18349382
Bombing universities is kind of resorting to academia.

>>18353324
Seethe

>>18348933
>The university is a mafia
This absolutely true. The education system has totally taken over America

>>18348981
I agree with you on that point, but it's undeniable that Jews have a hand in it

>>18349308
>Power is shared by all
Would you really want to share power with me, an extremely spiteful and bitter misanthrope

>>18348968
>without a diploma no one will read your work, no one will publish you
Journals reviewers do not have access to your credentials when you send a paper. It's a double-blind process.

>>18353437
>>18353588
imagine believing this

>>18353588
That is if the editor sends it for review. He might as well delete it the moment he doesn't see at least a MA on it.

>>18353672
Do you deny any of this? These are all factual claims.

>>18352607
Philosophy is a dialog, else it is a pretentious cooming. It is called dialectics, for one. So you need interlocutors working on the same topics and authors. A reading club with random nobodies won't cut it, you need professionals working hard core regularly. If you manage to find any - congrats, you have a seminar. With colleagues. And how do they call colleagues holding regular seminars?
A college. A faculty inside one, to be precise.

Academia did not appear on a whim.

>>18353504
Have sex

>>18350629
now you're just being autistic

>>18349350
Honestly both the guys i posted here have phds and i just didnt look it up lol

>>18354118
Why would anyone take a random retard with no credentials seriously? Mathematicians admit they just toss letters in the trash without reading them because most "self taught" people are just deluded morons.

>>18353979
Have kids

>>18348933
How many without PhDs have written work?

I dont doubt having a PhD gets you connected to the right people and it gives an air of credibility, but I don't think mafia-like tactics are stopping anyone from busting their ass outside of academia.

>>18352820
Any thoughts on the replication crisis, academic collusion, widespread data fabrication, p-value abuse, the academic publishing cabal? I suspect these are all symptoms of something pathological with today's research system. "Trust the science"...

>>18349792
Painfully obvious if true, awfully sad if not.

>>18354819
>I suspect these are all symptoms of something pathological with today's research system

yeah low standards and narcissism

>>18353437
>>18353588
Wrong. Most journals are single-blind at best. That means that editors will know that you're not a PhD nor a faculty member, and possibly reject you on that basis. It's not fair, maybe, but that's how it goes.

Even for the few double-blind journals: it's possible that you might publish in one of these, but you would probably at least need to circulate your article around conferences and experts, first.

>>18354819
Academia is filled with plebs who have given themselves titles previously reserved only for the genuine elite. Everythinn has dropped in quality for that reason

>>18355107
And even with a PhD and some published work, it is very very difficult to get published. The first person who looks at your paper will fly over it and make a decision within a few minutes usually. If it looks too conventional: they don't think it's interesting. If it is too innovative: they will not even take the time to judge the validity of your arguments. This is the first phase, the most unfair and the shortest, and getting through it is already very difficult.

Source: acquaintances.

Naval Ravikant. If you ain't a Navlist you ain't makin money and fuckin bitches.

>>18348933
LUKE SMITH AKA THE LINUX LINGUIST

>>18353016
>No, it isn't.
What alternative would you propose?