/lit/ - Literature

>>18311164
Based Animechads win another thread.

Reposting for feedback

It was freezing. He should have stopped earlier. Should have gone with them boys. It was his own stupid pride that kept him alone for so long. They’d laughed at him, called him old man. Good natured. But still, he set out the next morning before any of them could wake.
Should have slowed down maybe. Another dog chewed through the rope and bolted off through the trees. Won’t be seeing him again. The only dogs left to him were the ones too tired to even try.
He closed his eyes. When they opened again the sun had fallen behind the trees and he was covered in a layer of snow. His leg throbbed.
“Hey!” He called to the dogs. Nothing “Hey!” Shouted this time. He threw his head back and screamed. As loud as he could but not as loud as he’d expected. A dog stirred in the snow, lifting its head to sniff around at his feet.
“Yeah, you. Come on up here.”
The dog laid back down.
“Come on you stupid mutt.”
Nothing. Should have gone somewhere else for his dogs. Spent a little more money. He thought he could make his way through Canada for cheap and earn his fortune at the end. Stupid. Molly had said he was stupid, tried to tell him. But he thought he knew better.
He tried to sit up. The strain in his leg was unbearable. Reached down with his hands to try and pull his leg free. Even worse. Dropped back to the snow, panting, his hands covered in blood. Screamed again, wordless. A little louder this time. He hoped that was a good sign.
“Come here girl.” He waved his hand at the dog, flicking blood soaked snow in her direction. She finally lifted her head. “That’s right. Just a little more.”
She sniffed her way up his body, poking her nose at the wound on his leg. He tried his best not to let the pain show. Didn’t want to scare her off now. His fingers scraped at the fur on her head, grasping out.
“Come on girl. Come on.” Just a few more steps.
His hand made contact with her collar. He grabbed, held on for dear life, pulling her in. Now what?

Royal Road fucking depresses me. It's so hard to gain a following without it being self-insert power fantasy number 23053.

>>18311196
Do you post there? I'm trying to figure out which is the best space to start posting my story draft just to get a couple of eyes on it.

>>18311196
Do you even use social media to shill for your work?

>>18311213
Does that even work? How the hell do you go about doing that

>>18311213
Hmm I don't think social media is really that social anymore. I didn't try very hard but I never found an intuitive way to break out of the shadows and be seen.
Even money didn't really help. You have to target by age, demographic etc. It always felt vague to me.
I won't lie there is a small part of me that wants to make social media accounts sometime but I'm already time starved. Maintaining the accounts for business purposes looks really intimidating.

>>18311215
it means playing the game. networking online, engaging in gay cockrubs for other people's work so they do it for yours. it's the standard, slimy shit talentless people developed to get a leg up

>>18311215
>establish some sort of e-personality
>follow/repost other small writers/entertaining posters/YTbers (ideally establish a relationship so they will do the same with you)
>shill for your book from time to time
>use the same name in smaller and larger writing forums, helping people
At least that's how I picture muh writing career after I give up on traditional publishing after the 100th rejection or something. And I saw it working for a few yt writers who were just posting basic writing advice and interacted with their community at 1-5k subs and then released self-published shit when they got closer to 50-100k.
>>18311263
>You have to target by age, demographic etc. It always felt vague to me.
Well, you have to be able to identify your "ideal reader" even for traditional publishing. Aside of books similar to yours, you can unironically start by describing the person … I found it super weird and cringe-inducing at start but actually not as hard as it sounded first.
>Maintaining the accounts for business purposes looks really intimidating.
Well yeah but unless you have serious money for marketing or lucked into attention, it's how it is. Who knows how many new novels were published while we were posting here. How is the reader ever supposed to get their eyes on yours?

>>18311196
>it's so hard
Yes, your story is one of the several tens of thousands of works there. And one of the several thousand of active works because a lot of people give up.

>Zorian’s eyes abruptly shot open as a sharp pain erupted from his stomach. His whole body convulsed, buckling against the object that fell on him, and suddenly he was wide awake, not a trace of drowsiness in his mind.

The opening bit of the most read series on RR, Mother of Learning. How does it feel knowing that there are more people that would rather read this and think that it's objectively better than whatever you've written?

>>18311196
>It's so hard to gain a following without it being self-insert power fantasy number 23053.
Maybe try writing something actually worth reading?

Genuine question, why are these threads always using Hololive pictures

>>18311474
It's a great opening line man. Why are you jealously of MoL?

>>18311495
Because OP is an autistic faggot who never sleeps

>>18311474
Good for them I hope they enjoy that webnovel.

>>18311474
i mean it's not offensively bad. in fact, by the standards of amateur writing, it's remarkably inoffensive.

>>18311474
Writing is the least relevant thing about writing. If the story and character hits the right points for the right people, it will succeed.

>I scowl with frustration at myself in the mirror. Damn my hair - it just won't behave, and damn Katherine Kavanagh for being ill and subjecting me to this ordeal. I should be studying for my final exams, which are next week, yet here I am trying to brush my hair into submission. I must not sleep with it wet. I must not sleep with it wet. Reciting this mantra several times, I attempt, once more, to bring it under control with the brush. I roll my eyes in exasperation and gaze at the pale, brown-haired girl with blue eyes too big for her face staring back at me, and give up. My only option is to restrain my wayward hair in a ponytail and hope that I look semi presentable.

Is the opening paragraph from a franchise that made billions.

>>18311555
you can't control the alignment of the stars. what you can control is the effort you put into improving your writing. i know which basket i'll be putting my eggs in

>>18311555
>Writing is the least relevant thing about writing
what >>18311589 said
you talk like a true non-writer with visions of easy riches
go ahead and make your billions you piece of shit crab

>>18311474
Okay class, take notes

>Zorian’s eyes abruptly shot open
"Shot open" is already an abrupt action, so "abruptly" is an unnecessary adverb here.
>His whole body convulsed
"Whole" is an unnecessary specification, and probably not literally true. "His body convulsed" carries the same information.
>and suddenly he was wide awake
"Abruptly" and "suddenly" are used next to each other. Moreover, his eyes already shot open, and that usually doesn't happen if a person isn't awake, so this clause could be cut completely.
>not a trace of drowsiness in his mind.
Usually true if one is "wide awake".

Redundancies, redundancies, the plague of amateur writing. Pay attention to shit like this and your writing is one giant leap closer to professional level.

>>18311178
Your language is quite coherent. The pace at which you give information is appropriate. The sentences have a reason to be there. Whether I like the story or not depends on what happens next. Any ideas yet?

>play piano
>record myself covering OP from popular anime X
>get thousands of views

>write something
>invest literally months
>nobody reads it

>>18311725
I don't get how "don't obsesses with mental masturbation over muh writing" got anything to do with crab mentality or why you would even equal it with "muh true writing". It's a means of communication and your job is to tell as story. If your writing enhances the story, great. If it doesn't, you might still be fine if the story you're telling is relevant for people.

>>18311816
The writing equivalent would be fanfiction or at least derivative works.

>write Royalroad story
>don't think it's good but don't think it's horrible either
>some guy messages me and totally lambasts it
>check his story out
>it reads like it was written by an ESL teen with no sense of humour
>tfw my story is so bad not even retards like it

>>18311474
MoL is better written and more consistent than 99% of the fictional on that site. I don't even like it but I would assume a random story from a /lit/ poster would be worse.

>>18311818
what the fuck are you even saying
the writing is the means that tells the story. if the writing is shit the reception of the message, the enjoyment gained and the emotions evoked will be shallower
>you might still be fine if the story you're telling is relevant for people
and you'd do a better job bringing that story to people with deliberate and skilled writing
don't discourage working hard and improving because 'muh outliers' you fuck

>>18311212
Not him but it's a decent place. There's at least 200k people on the platform so there's a good chance you might hit a audience, niche or not Only Wattpad (maybe AO3 and that one fanfic site) comes close to that number, but the r/HFY has around the same number of users on it with some 180k users. There's also Spacebattles and Quotev, but I haven't ventured into either. Scribblehub is another place to try out, too.

>>18311213
From my experience, it can be extremely hit or miss, on twitter at least. There's some hashtag specifically for the scratch-my-back-i'll-scratch-yours as one of the anons in the discussion noted earlier: the writerslift and writerscommunity communities. I stopped using them after a while since I didn't think it was worth it. The target audience for those are other writers: not readers.

I've been using some webserial hashtags with not much noticeable results. I don't seem to get any actual referrals from twitters from what I can tell. I might get anywhere from 20 to 200 impressions but those are just that, no clicks on profile or chap/fiction links in the tweets themselves. I made one youtube video promoting my fiction, but I only have a small channel and given I don't use it at all, it's had underwhelming results.

Interestingly, I get more page view clicks when making comment's on someone's art. So I guess even being sociable (not in the sense of self-promoting) can get some curious eyes to click on you. Works in mysterious ways, I suppose.

That aside, the same can be said for just about every writers community (discord or otherwise) ever. Might be worth peeking into some beta readers subreddits, I guess.

Anyways, just, like, write, bro.

>>18311731
And yet the author of that makes 3k a month on patreon. Moral of the story even if you nitpick to hell and back on being perfectly correct, it does nothing for success,

>>18311907
Do you write because you like writing or because you want money? If it's the latter, then why not sell your ass online, you have better chances to make bank that way

>>18311855
You inspired that guy so much that he took the time to message you personally, I think that's an achievement to be proud about

>>18311936
>nah bro writing is just an easy job
>me? no I don't make money I just crab
>in fact I don't write at all
don't engage with the jealous masses

>>18311731
I thought Mother of Learning was a solid read for what is was, a web novel written by an esl author. The writing is pretty much this though, riddled with unnecessary exposition. The pacing, especially early on, is very quick. It almost seemed like the writer was trying to fill in a particular word count with each chapter release. But instead of slowing things down and really trying to build up each scene, he would fluff it with info dumps and redundant language.

>>18311212
If your story is fantasy/sci-fi at all and not a teen girl romance story it is the best place to post. That being said, this is mostly for lack of better options rather than it being the ideal platform. Most of the site is litRPG, wuxia, and isekai focused. On top of this most of the readers are silent and won't pay attention until you have hundreds of pages up. The best way to get feedback is to participate in reviews on the forums but lots of the people there are in attentive at best and really only check for the objective existence of tropes they like. You have to make sure the person you're dealing with is actually on board about reading and paying attention.

>>18311495
I like them. They set a chill mood for me and make writing breaks more comfy. To me OP has good tastes.

>>18311178
Most stuff I see on here has the problem of constant run-on sentences. This one is the opposite. Try chaining a couple sentences together from time to time to help the rhythm.

>>18312000
Is it possible to make an Isekai that avoids the worst cliches, or is it those cliches that attracts isekai fans in the first place?

>>18312135
In my experience people read sort of aimlessly so the biggest hurdle is getting them to start. Feel free to bait readers if you want.

>>18312135
Isekai is just going to another world. And not all of them are battle harem or power fantasies that copy Dragon Quest.

>>18311178
>“Hey!” He called to the dogs.

working on a retelling of the sword in the stone, though basically nothing is correct about the adaptation

>>18312533

>>18312528
>He thinks you can correct "misuse" of a convention
"Suck my cock!" Anon yelled at the poster behind post number 18312528. He took a moment to calm himself before lighting a ciggie indoors, much to the chagrin of his parents on the first floor.
"There is no such thing as proper dialogue formatting." He grumbled, "Only Jews care about that shit. They want to keep the rest of us out of the business."

>>18312577
To be fair you have to have a pretty high IQ to understand litRPG

>>18312544
I really like the last sentence

>>18312587
Exactly, the Greeks were like YA compared to some litrpg stuff.

>>18311196
It's why I don't post there. You get attention via saying a lot of words without actually saying anything. Success is measured by word or more commonly chapter count, and often excessive numbers of these. Quantity over quality. Filler.
Meanwhile good writing predicates everything with the question of "Why is this here?" The exact opposite approach.
Not only that but it is mostly reeeeeeeeeditors so the instant you go off the basedboy citycuck MC script and/or have any character develop as a character they don't like it. They are explicitly offended if the MC is powerful yet not omnipotent, and actually needs a party in a MMO like video game system. Not joking!

>>18312602
Not sure if you're trolling, but given the direction some of the content goes you're kind of right.
Meanwhile conventional fantasy, the system is what you say it is and there isn't any objective quantification, at least not most of the time. There's also no weird culture clash shit where you have basically normal people dealing with Clown World rejects.

>>18311164
Post what you believe to be the best passage you’ve ever written. Everyone has one

>>18312604
I hate how they piss their pants over "systems." I'm pretty sure they'd say that any story with a soft approach to magic is shit. A lot of the authors and readers sound like they just got done watching a video essay on Hunter x Hunter or Sanderson.

>>18311174
sneed

>>18312595
thank you very much!

>>18312654
Most LitRPG doesn't even have a proper system, not even on par with something like Final Fantasy, as in the original one where you buy spellbooks and most of them are bugged and don't even work or are useless even if they do work.
Most of em, at least the western ones are Skyrim spellswords, jack of all trades, master of all.

>>18312654
I'm worried about that. The less restrictive I want my characters' parapsychological powers to be, the softer my already marshmallow-soft sciento-magic system becomes. I feel like the Jump manga vibe will still be present, but not in that rigid D&D rules-y way.

>>18312528
"He called to the dogs" is a complete and independent thought, just like "He nodded his head."

>>18312760
You wouldn't even want hyper rules, especially not D&D like unless the whole point is caster vs caster, with ordinary soldier and sneaky types being quite useless. That said, everything should be telegraphed even if it isn't explicitly defined. Knowing the character has an open ended ability that manipulates fire at a low level means you're not surprised when they create a low level fire ability with it, and then repeat that specific ability at later times.
Once it explicitly says they can do whatever they want with fire within the limits of their currently high level skill and they have essentially freeform manipulation with some predefineds? Still not surprising.
Just as long as they don't draw abilities from nowhere outside of the beginning, where they don't even have abilities yet it's fine.

>>18312580
>"Haha." I chuckled at the post. This is why I come to these threads. This is why I get up in the morning. To giggle at little inside jokes that my friends [sic] make. "Top kek," I replied to the poster, "You my friend have won the internet today." I sit back in my comfy chair and let out a noise halfway between inhalation and a snort. I turn back to my copy of The Stranger. One day we'll all be among the greats.

>>18312649
Hard to say, since I liked a lot. But here's a random one regardless.

The spectacle of a million lights. It reminds me of a memory from so many years ago, of a place I cannot recall and with loved ones long since gone. I must have been very little then, and remember finding myself seated on someone’s shoulders—perhaps it was my older brother or my papa. Getting a clear view of breathtaking lights that pop and explode with such rhythm that to a young child, it would surely be a memory they would never forget. One they would cherish for as long as they live—a capsule of simpler and better times, without a worry in the world. To look back on it and feel nostalgic; feel warmth over such a lovely memory.

And to have that memory resurface now—to have a memory dug up by death and destruction is sickening. A spectacle of a million lights—not one of innocence, but signifying the ongoing armed struggle between people. Where each spectacle of fireworks goes off not with rhythm to bring joy to hundreds gathered, but the determined purpose of killing another living being—and more than just hundreds at that.

And it sickens me. It sickens me to the core to have an innocent memory tramped on and become affiliated with this moment. The more upset I get about this, the more agitated my scar tissue gets. My attempts at rubbing my mature mark in an attempt to soothe the tissue fail, and in fact contribute to it all the same. As I hunch over in my chair I can only wish I had asked Olga to stay with me. I feel like I need her now more than ever, but asking her to leave the Taiga at this point would cause inconvenience for the rest of the fleet. It would cause a little bit of confusion in the ships she leads—and I have no other lieutenants capable of filling her position. I could, however, ask Richter to lead her ships. But I’ve asked too much of the man already and I wouldn’t want to fill his responsibilities more than what I ask of him already. I hate to admit it, but Olga’s attention is needed where it is best suited.

>>18312649
>“Never shall I be caught again beneath the ground,” he ejaculated fiercely. The nut burst against his codpiece with a splortch. He grimaced; nothing got him off quite like making a stern vow. It was an imposition of his will upon the outer world, as if he were domming the universe itself. Oh, and it was a bratty sub, the universe was: time and again it would spit in his face and cast his plans awry, then give him that impish grin, daring him to punish it. And punish it he would. Sometimes he’d smack a stick against the ground, or the water, or just kinda swish it through the air. After all, hitting pretty much anything counted as hitting the universe. Technically the stick was also the universe, and even he was the universe too, but this was an existential dilemma he was not prepared to address just yet.
>It was all consensual, though. He had learned that on his spirit journey, back when he had taken enough peyote to kill a lesser man and wandered through the wastes for eleven days, subsisting on nothing but beetles and his own urine. The universe had appeared to him, her eyes brimming with the cosmos, her lips touched with the red of dying stars. Her legs, long as the contrails of galaxies, dwindling off to minute points. Her boobies, swollen with all the contents of the Milky Way. Her butt, a graceful cleft hiding an all-devouring supermassive black hole.
>She had proclaimed her love for him then, and they had laid out the various details of their relationship. Their various kinks, their “no-nos” and their “do-dos”. Their safe word was “circumpolar”. Then they engaged in furious coitus, and when he had regained his senses, he was thrusting his way through a saguaro cactus. It had taken hours to pick all the needles out of his groin. But that was okay, because it was still the universe. It counted.

>>18312649
this was a fun one

Herbivores, the lot of them. Not a single canine tooth in the bunch. Just broad flat molars chewing on supple, easy to reach leaves. One or two undoubtedly requiring thick glasses when outside this place. And, that one there, possibly suffering from anemia. Their faces, mildly friendly, unfamiliar, conveying polite, unoffensive greeting. One familiar face, however, with a carefully schooled, neutral expression. Stacy, from three oh one. Unexpected, seeing her here. Stopping me short, giving me pause. All herbivores, almost certainly. But, with Stacy being any indication, not rabbits. Instead something larger, more stubborn.

Noob writer here, tell me what you think about my short story: https://pastebin.com/zzPB7dzK

Do you like it? What would you change about it, and what would you keep?

>>18313560
Personally I hate reading stuff that uses the present tense for any length of time. Is there a particular reason you chose it?

>>18313560
It ends too abruptly. Otherwise It's decent

Greetings! I'm currently working on my first visual novel! So far I've received a lot of encouraging support from my fellow anon's over on /fit/. I'd be delighted if you could review my videos and offer some constructive feedback on my writing style/story thus far.

funny scene:
https://youtu.be/TUdknApEtWE

serious scene:
https://youtu.be/Asc4MY5Ywn4

>>18313631
No particular reason. What's wrong with present tense?

>>18313635
Thanks. What did you like about it?

>>18313674
unfunny, but I'm sure it took a lot of work so good job sport, also your lisp sounds stupid maybe cut it out

>>18313674
>these are the people giving you writing advice

>>18313700
I think you accidentally clicked on the "serious scene" link!
try this one instead:
https://youtu.be/hfMKUlTLIbA

>>18313712
I haven't given anyone advice. I normally stay on /fit/. I'm just here looking for honest feedback and constructive critique.

>>18313723
I don't know what to tell you other than maybe cancel this project start from the beginning
The writing makes me feel bad. It's repulsive. It's like that german loli game but without any of the wit
Go to the /weg/ thread on /aco/

>>18313680
You mostly only see it in journalism stuff like articles and reviews so it makes it feel detached.

If you're on royal road I'm offering live first chapter reviews that I'll put on youtube. Look in the review section of RR and you'll see the thread.

>>18313799
>free humiliation sessions
im ok thanks

>>18313560
Well if nobody is talking shit about my story it must be pretty good

Why are fantasyfags obsessed with maps? Everyone in my writing group has a map for the worlds they've created. One guy bought a software program specifically for making maps. And I got a friend who is in the process of querying his story and the manuscript he's been sending out has a map at the beginning.
So many maps. Does anyone actually look at them? I'm not pretending like I'm better than anyone else or nothing, I'm just kind of intrigued.

>>18313867
Trying to shame us into giving you pointers doesn't work if two people have already.

>>18313887
I only made a map because I needed to keep track of where my shit is, and it is extremely rudimentary. Worldbuilding is a cancer for new authors because they spend all their time doing it instead of actually putting words into their manuscripts.

>>18313887
If it's well done, it can help the reader get a picture of your world, and can be a fun little exercise for them to follow along on the map with what's happening in the story.
If it's done badly, or if half the stuff on the map doesn't even get used, it's worse than useless.

>>18313895
It's not a shame tactic. It's bait. Everyone knows /lit/ loves to shit on your writing if you think it's good.

What did you think of my story, by the way? Pretty good right?

>>18313887
I have no idea. It isn't as if I will remember most of this stuff. Seems more a status thing, kind of like the front art.

>>18313674
>homosapien isn't the only thing homo about you
For fucks sake, I feel bad almost laughing at that. Decent shit, anon, until it went to cringe politics in part two. That needs a lot more finesse. Reminds me bit of the old school "harry, you're a wizard" shit from back in the day.

Second vid misses something, I expected some twist for either of the characters, or where the whole thing was going. Anon generally seems to miss personality which sticks out more if the situation itself isn't comical enough.

The visuals and audio are nice enuff.

>>18313560
it's in that space between amateur trash and mind numbingly mediocre
it's hard to say anything about it. it's boring. you have the common beginner problem of having sparse prose which only has the time to tell events
your writing is simultaneously insecure that the reader won't understand the intentions while not saying anything.
> His voice is somber, David can tell Sam is taking their position a bit more seriously. "Let's go check it out"
why does it have to be explicitly explained that he's taking things more seriously if you've stated his voice has become somber? why does it have to be stated that his voice has become somber if what he says indicates he respects the situation?
give me 20 minutes and I'll bash out a rewrite

>>18313895
worked on me
>>18313867
it worked but don't say shit like this, it screams insecurity. I only checked it to give you a slap on the wrist because I fully expected it to be complete shit. if it's any consolation, it's shit but of a kind that doesn't stink so bad

>>18313907
>>18313912
nevermind, you seem like a swarmy cunt. I don't want to help you anymore

>>18313560
Nothing to say besides the meme 'suddenly woke up' cliche. I liked the tense usage.

>>18313910
thank you my friend. I totally agree that the second scene, in the first video, was too crude and the jokes were a bit ham fisted and cliche.

I hired a voice actress, so hopefully adding more emotional range to the serious scene will give it more "completeness."

>>18313887
when I was a kid I read the Thieves World series and I remember fucking loving the maps
great for kids I guess

>>18313560
>His eyes widen and his whole body stiffens with fear. "What the fuck is that?" "Is there someone outside?" He remains absolutely still, listening intently for any movement. There is none. The shadow remains motionless. He tries to control his breath so as to be totally silent and avoid detection. He feels the need for air but refuses to allow himself to breath in too quickly.
You spend too much time telling us how the character feels and not enough time showing us what he sees. It wasn't just this passage either, elaborate more on that thing in the dark that's making him scared. I as the reader want to be just as emotional as the character.
Plus please proofread before posting something. I hate the hur dur grammar posters too but it is distracting.
I think you did solid job with the dialogue though. They definitely sounded like real people.

>>18313799
Cool can't wait for you to mischaracterize someone's story because you read the first 1k words out of 200,000 and think your extrapolation is correct.

>>18313971
That brings up a more pertinent question. Do girls like maps? There's an edgy goth girl in my group and she really likes my stuff so I will gladly make a map if it gets me closer to the bone zone.

>>18314007
>edgy goth girl
fuck man, living the dream
yeah, I can attest that she might engage with it
I knew one who was into the world build shit but she was a DM for a dnd campain. there was evidence to believe she'd be into it
your girl, on the other hand, is definitely capable of sniffing out simp behavior. girls aren't completely retarded, despite whatever incels may say. if she sees you suddenly pick up a common interest in the group and start talking to her about it there's a decent chance she'll see it as little bitch behavior
gl anon. goth girls are the best of them
if it doesn't work out invite me to your group

>>18314007
Yes. Be sure to make a map which signals your intentions like pic related.

>>18313916
Come on. Do a rewrite. I'm just a struggling noob out here trying to make it and get some feedback.

>>18313997
>You spend too much time telling us how the character feels and not enough time showing us what he sees.

You're right, but he's in a tent looking at a shadow. What else can I say to get the reader to be scared, too?

>>18314039
you've lost your newbie goodwill. all you can hope for now is showing that you're willing to improve
post something later and put some of the crit you've received to good use and I'll give it some degree of effort post

>>18314061
That's a shame. I thought I would get to see an example of a skilled writer putting words together to describe a story I'm familiar with and I could see how it's really done. You /lit/ guys talk a lot of shit but when it comes time to prove your skills there's always excuses. "Not worth my time" etc. To me, that just sounds like laziness. Everyone knows that one of the most important skills in writing is work ethic.

Keep your rewrite to yourself, I don't need it anyways. Your writing probably isn't as great as you think. I bet your version would be like 10-15% better than mine, at most.

Idiot.

>>18314144
schizo
>Everyone knows that one of the most important skills in writing is work ethic
based but good luck getting helpful (you)'s with this unhinged bait mentality
/wg/ has a lot of regulars

>>18313929
Thanks bro. If you're not pointing out glaring issues, I must be doing something right.

>>18314144
How much you guys wanna bet this isn't even the guy who posted the story?

>>18313998
If someone fucks up the crucial 1k, why would you trust them to do better with the 199k left?
>>18314144
>Everyone knows that one of the most important skills in writing is work ethic.
Aka. not hanging around here and definitely not spending time to fix anyone's story.

Why would you even need /lit/fags to do anything when there are millions of books showing ways to do it right. People don't even need to be writers to be able to point out issues with your story, just like you don't need to be a cook to tell that a wet piece of bread isn't a great meal.

>>18314171
The better question is why are taking the fucking bait.

>>18314171
>schizophrenic larper who tries to suicide random anons reputation to deprive them of help
would be a funny character

>>18314179
I can't tell who is trolling who anymore.
I'm Anonocus!

>>18314175
It's a passable one.

>>18314175
No. Answer my question first faggot.

>>18314172
>If someone fucks up the crucial 1k, why would you trust them to do better with the 199k left?
hope you're not the reviewer, this is a brainlet mentality. how many quality works have started dry and uninteresting? classic works even?
>b-but amateur prose quality
if you are the reviewer I hope you don't extrapolate at all and just focus on what's presented to you and how you react to it (which includes how you feel about continuing the story), but don't make definite claims about the quality of the overall work. you don't have to hold yourself to any standard but if you're doing this as a service to the community and to build yourself a reputation, have some integrity as a reviewer, it's better for everyone

>>18313912
Bigfoot anon, don't listen to this guy. /lit/ is full of elitist trash who never have the balls to post up their own writing for criticism.

Your story was fine. With some practice, I think you have a lot of potential.

reminder that there's a thread creeper who lurks and saves any quality stories posted to post in other threads and pretend he wrote them

>>18314227
I'd be a little flattered if someone tried to claim my work as their own. What thread are they usually posted in, anyway?

>>18314246
the poetry thread, /ffa/ when it was still running and wwoym
maybe other places but /lit/ is a cesspool outside of the generals and pseudo generals so I don't browse much. I wouldn't be able to tell if someone was cross posting their own work or larping unless it were my own work so I can't speak to anything but what I've seen

>>18314210
>hope you're not the reviewer
Good lord, no.
>how many quality works have started dry and uninteresting? classic works even?
I don't recall any. Name three, anon. Besides, it's not about going all in with in medias res, a work can start slow and still show off the competence of the writer to create trust.

For example, I found the beginning of Anna Karenina pretty dull but Leo starts with a top tier first line and later on reliable amount of well written sentences that make it obvious he's knows what's he's doing.

As for the rest, I fully agree with you.

>>18314269
>Name three
alright thinking on it maybe you've got me there
The Three Musketeers was kind of ass for a bit and that was a classic serial, makes for a good comparison for RR shit

How do you get over anxiety before and while writing?
I can hardly even write some dumbass /aco/ smut without getting all self aware

>>18314325
Oddly enough writing calms my nerves. Just open up notepad and write silly stuff for the sake of writing silly stuff. Writing is work, but it's fun too. Keep the fun going.

>>18311907
maybe he could make more if he followed anon's advice.

>>18314325
friends, expectations, self discipline, some confidence
I haven't found a decent online writing community that isn't either completely pozzed or so degenerate and amateur to be nauseating so I spend way too much time in thread. if you post here and make a show of trying to improve I'll give (you)s and try to help
if it's totally garbage I might be an ass about it but in the long term I do want to help you. even if you have nothing else to look forward to with your writing, know that I'll be waiting for you

>>18314283
>The Three Musketeers
Fair point, Dumas sure wasn't in a hurry. I can see how some of the parts might work for people who are really into historical fiction but yeah, it does drag on for more than the first 1k words.

>>18314325
Do it for a while and it wears off.

>>18314325
"No matter how bad the shit I write turns out, it's better than not writing. And maybe I could even salvage something later."

Also alcohol.

>>18314325
I've written enough smut that I burned out any embarrassment I was capable of. I can now talk to anyone about anything, which both helps and hurts dealing with girls because my filter is just gone. hiding my powerlevel has become very difficult.
So write some seriously fucked up smut, like guro levels I'm talking. You'll never feel anxiety again.

Hullo. Am trying to get myself to write more consistently, and have been trying to write for at least fifteen minutes a day. Been trying a few prompts to write with.

Here's the second one I did today, mainly about faith. I personally think I laid it on a little too thick on the end, maybe with too much bombast, but I'd love to hear what anyone thinks about it.

Faith, faith, faith. It is one of those things that all men need, perhaps not physically, but psychologically, to survive, live, and thrive. Yet it all comes in so many forms, in the form of a god. The great God of the never ending steppe, who rides forever in the sky, calling for eternal battle and good grass, a simple god for a simple nomadic society. The creator god, as they hammer at their forge or tinker in their workshop, creating the world or great creatures, and a god for a society that creates immense works. A third god is that of the Abrahamic variety, a father who judges absolutely, advises with absolutes, and destroys his enemies absolutely, for a society that must be radical. Of course, these are simply three gods out of a great number of deities, pantheons, preachings, and doctrines, made of thousands of years. They are the embodiment of a society’s values, virtues, vices, and vindictions.

So what happens when you don’t believe in any of them strongly, but want to hold desperately onto some sort of spirit, or feeling of religion?

I have this issue, primarily with the third God I listed, or rather, the institutions that have popped up under the foot of such a god like mushrooms. They are old and weak, their vitality fading. The God they once followed, or at least the feeling of him, has faded. I was brought up Christian, or at least an agnostic Christian. There is a little feeling left, but it is simply a fading ember, a fragment of a larger, but still small flame. I wish for something to rekindle those embers, to rebuild that fire, and to turn it into a whirlwind of flame, beating down upon the world. I wish to create a new path, a new religion. One which has the hammer and creative spirit of the creator god, hammering and molding a new faith, the simplicity of a nomadic god, and the radical absolutism of an Abrahamic god. But while the want is there, the feeling for it is transparent, opaque. It is a phantom, haunting that religious feeling which wants to be attended to so very badly, so necessary to life, but it aches and groans and cries out: “Please! Come to me, tend me! I am near death, I am close to dying! I require water to keep on a little longer!”

Rereading Worm because I'm interested in writing a serial and I enjoyed it when I was a highschooler. It's prose is better than 90% of what I see on this general. I was ashamed of reading it even when I was younger. Ya'll niggas need to pick up a book
>>18314671
It felt as though there was a motif of three but it didn't end up culminating into anything. Bit of a shame considering the content. Reads fine if a bit melodramatic
Not quite the "powerful" piece I'm sure you hoped it to be. Post your prompts before you do them, I might participate from time to time. Communal prompts are comfy

>>18314725
Alright. And that's fine, it's a common problem with my work, I think of something, but it is simply a loose collection of ideas, spread out over a great area, instead of a tightly knit unit, clustered all together.

>>18314725
post your prose then.

>>18314772
I've pretty much stopped posting here because of the crossposter but sure, I can post something I've posted before
I don't mean to claim my prose is stellar. Just that most posts here are from absolute beginners or deluded idiots who never seem to improve

>>18314790
that's pretty good. feel free to continue your shit talking.

>>18314790
>no questions asked, whenever he asked
whut.png
Besides that you could definitely cut some of those paragraphs in half. The content itself was engaging and had a nice cadence to it. I like the way you write.

>>18314822
>>18314828
Thanks brehs. As much as I shit post about how bad the thread is, you guys are all right
See you at anon's next prompt. Maybe I'll start posting my stuff here again, crossposter be damned

>>18313799
I was curious the quality of your reviews and found your channel
First of all buy a proper fucking microphone. Secondly practice your enunciation. Thirdly, keep at this, it's a damn gold mine
I respect both your integrity for finding a way to carve a name for yourself without mindless shilling, as well as for engaging with and elevating your community. People can and will enjoy this kind of content.
If you don't carve a name for yourself as the primary creator for this kind of content, I will. You have approx. 2 months before I finish my first serial to post on RR. I used to stream before it blew up and got a pretty healthy following and I regularly got compliments on my voice. I might not be anything special, but I'll overtake you in an instant if you don't shape up
Good luck anon. As much as I view myself as a potential competitor in this new niche, I commend your business sense and wish you the best

>>18315385
Why don't we just team up and argue about first chapters?

Need advice for writing dialogue and how to structure it on the page.

>>18315400
My advice is just write

>>18315395
Opportunistic too. Respect the hustle cutie
We'll see. I could see people either loving it or hating it, wait for me and when the time comes we'll find out if we have a good dynamic
Wise to form a community around this quickly, especially if it can be a standard of quality. Helps to keep the competition out

>>18315406
this idea is way less lucrative than you guys think it is. relax.

>>18312528
>>18315400

>>18315409
You underestimate how important it is to do basic networking. There's a reason for every X hobby there's a youtube guy who does basic bitch tutorials. It's a fantastic way to make a name for yourself
It's not gonna break anyone into the public consciousness but it'll put you way ahead of other RR writers
If you don't have the competitive sense to see opportunity that's fine, the more shitters that stay behind in conventional thinking, the more space there is for people looking for an edge

https://pastebin.com/Jhhvf9R3

This is somewhat of a rough chapter outline for the first few chapters of the book that I am writing.

Thoughts? Comments? Critiques? I'll take it all, thanks in advance.

>>18315518
I ain't reading that shit
post prose you weirdo

>>18315518
sounded cool until the portal in central park

>sit down to write as I usually do
>all I can think of is porn again
>just write
>write 2000 words in no time
>read back through it
>it's filthy smut infested erotica

How's your day going?

>>18315615
Woke up late as usual, experienced a migraine, and put off writing anything for most of the day. Decided to catch up on some anime and binge-reading a couple of fictions I've been following.

After my migraine settled down I decided to start work on my next chapter a few hours ago. Managed to get 1.3k words before I slacked off the rest of the night. now its 2am and I must snooze.

>>18315615
Stupid anime girl.
Sacher-Masoch > Sade

>>18315615
Reading. Got a positive response from /wg/. Having a cozy time

>>18315518
I read chapter 1 & 2.

Take FBI agent Stauder and put him in an office with Sal. That way Sal doesn't have to carry the opening scenes alone and they can react to the incredible situation together.

When Sal and stauder are in the helicopter and the situation is explained over the radio, you could leave the explanation very vague and express the Central's nervousness/panic – when even your CIA boss gets the jitters...

Make it so that, before the explanation is over, the portals come into view.

Calling a medic for the dragon is a strange reaction.

Thane Kyrath is an interesting character. Good job.

You might want to start your story with the second chapter. Let it end with thane being led away by his guards, thinking he is going to be executed. Hard cut to Sal and Stauder sitting in their office, drinking coffee, yawning. The way it's set up now, the second chapter feels like a tensionless flashback. The info is interesting, but there's no drama.

––– That's it for now.

>>18315615
Is there a market for smut lit? I think I have a talent for it.

>>18315892
yes, obviously
post

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1025581294

Would you ever Livestream writing your novel?

>>18311174
>win
If you consider other people giving up winning, well there’s the reason for your inceldom.

>>18314227
Yeah I'm completely fine with this. Even if my favorite stories didn't have a paper trail leading back to me, I'm the one who can make more stories of similar quality. Even if someone managed to get me published without my knowledge, I can (and do) write more stories of a similar but overall and gradually increasing quality.

>>18314144
>I thought I would get to see an example of a skilled writer putting words together to describe a story I'm familiar with and I could see how it's really done
The only person turning this into an ego thing is you. The great thing about 4chan is that you can hear what people really think. Nobody is blowing any smoke up your ass because the story you're so proud of is not that great. It's not even good. Hell, it's not even fucking edited. You have grammatical mistakes all over the place. The way you use language is neophytic AT BEST. At worst it reads like a toddler putting together words like Legos. Nobody here owes you the effort of rewriting your story for you, and it is a significant effort. The fact that you think otherwise speaks to your inexperience in a way only the inexperienced are ignorant of. Nobody here owes you shit. When you pitch a bitch fit and demand other people use their time to teach you the thing you want to be taught, by nature you're just going to invite scorn and derision. Writing is a heavily autodidactic pursuit. I personally have learned almost everything I know about writing from intuition and reading a lot. People like me will look at your tantrums and demands to have the world's knowledge shoehorned into your leaky brain and tell you to fuck off.

Fuck off.

I want to get better at creating a rhythm with my prose. I want each sentence to build upon itself. Are there books which talk specifically about the rhythm or prose, the value of certain syllables and words over others, etc?

Looks at the OP list and none seem to be what I'm looking for.

>>18316408
Stop trying to intellectualize intuitive processes. You're going to end up like those sad, professional critics who have heads full of the knowledge of writing without the ability to write anything themselves. Read more of the greats.

>>18316431
Looking into it I genuinely think I can improve as a writer by studying syllables and phonetics. It's the music sheet of literature.

>>18316431
some people are just autistic
>>18316457
it probably won't help much but yeah, linguistics sounds like the path for you
honestly you're probably not suited for writing in general but hey, if nothing else you might make something unique

>>18315419
This nigga knows what's up.
>>18315538
Fuck off, this shit is a lot more interesting and fits more to a /wg/ than the usual "critique muh prose" crap.
>>18315518
>a CIA officer in charge of investigating the paranormal and alien
Sounds like a corny parody already.
>scene 1.3
Oh, so it's really some Dresden Files sort of shit? Not really my cup of tea and I don't see why the reader would care about any of it yet.
>chapter 2
Now this actually sounds somewhat fresh.
>Senator from Alabama, and a very cynical man, he arrives in NY to provide "congresisonal oversight"
Is that how any of this works in Burgerstan?
>Kyrath's apparent medical history
What. The. Fuck. Am. I. Reading.
>chapter 6
I mean, there is an escalation and all but so far I still found no reason to be invested in any of this. Neither of the characters sounds particularly interested or fun (sans maybe the redneck senator who could potentially be funny) and the stakes/conflict are just too abstract and general to care without being invested into the characters or world. Maybe it'd be better to take it slower and play up the mystery aspects of it.

>>18313799
LMAO at your thread. All of the usual suspects (forum whores) dogpiled it immediately. Guess I shouldn't have expected anything else.

>>18316867
>this shit is a lot more interesting and fits more to a /wg/ than the usual "critique muh prose" crap
Bing bing wahoo!

>>18315419
This advice would hold a lot more water if everyone spending time on social networking was a dedicated master of their craft. As it is, it just seems like a slimy shortcut for doing the real work of creating something that stands on its own.

>>18316893
>creating something that stands on its own
Not possible in todays market.

>>18316915
Just so we're on the same page, your argument is that it's not possible due to "todays market" to pursue the actual craft of writing to the point where you can actually write something worth a shit?

none of you are going to make it. i'll see you all at the cubicle farm, anons.

>>18316938
>pursue the actual craft of writing to the point where you can actually write something worth a shit?
Can be done while you also whore yourself out on social media. The problem comes from the other side, if you don't do that and don't have a huge marketing push from traditional publisher, you can work on your craft as hard as you want but basically nobody will ever see it due the amount of stuff there is.
>>18316961
How comes wage cuckery is the opposite of not making it? There are people from first world countries here mate.

Encouraged as I was by my mother's compliments on my ability to describe situations and events, I set out to seek opinions on my work in the wider world.
This turned out to be either my greatest folly, or the only wise action I ever did undertake. Proud of my prose I lay it out for others to see, and not tied by any paternal bonds their tongues let loose with such a volley of criticisms that their words were as many as mine own.
Think on it! A critique as long as the text it critiques? This was not a mere trifle, there was everything wrong with my work, everything! Not one good thing did they have to say to me, but no, I do not make of myself a martyr and claim that they insulted me, always kind, they were always kind! It was this very kindness which hurt me more than the thousand cuts they subjected me to. What use is it to caress my cheek and whisper sweet nothings to mine ear as your knife traces my flesh? Does the caress make the cut pain me any less? No! It only emphasizes it via contrast.
And what were these words, these cruel yet fair words that cut me so? Conjunctions, conjunctions and sentences that run on as endlessly as the fractals of God's creation, ever seeking their end but scarce finding it, why the words I wrote only knew the ends of their own sentences by rumor and not by sight!
Consider Plebnon, that poor humble would be writer, nigh-on thirty of age and yet he struggles with too many conjunctions and run-on-sentences, can you show him kindness? Spare it for one who wants it! I am undone, all my hopes and dreams but ashes to pour on myself. No, spare me your kind words and rather lend me sackcloth so I may attire myself in a manner more suited to my spirits.
92 thousand words stand in the barren land as the legs of Ozymandias. Will you fall in worship with me, to this folly of mine?

>>18316961
Haven't there been exceptional writers who also worked a day job?

>>18316961
>>18316995
There are many examples of notable authors that previously worked a job where their main duties involved writing or allowed them the space and free time to write off to the side. It's unrealistic to assume your going from school then immediately to published author making a enough money to do it full time.

>>18313887
>One guy bought a software program specifically for making maps.
what program was it? i really really like maps
t. diagnosed autist

>>18316978
>Can be done while you also whore yourself out on social media
But it isn't, which is my original point. It acts as a shortcut to the kind of success that normally only follows producing something that's worth a shit. Defending the dynamic and even promoting it just serves to keep the machine well greased with the inoffensive prose of presentable, milquetoast social mediaites who just want to make a quick buck.

>>18317093
As long there is financial initiative in creating art, art mainly for financial gain will be made and thanks to well studied formulas used, it will be successful, as will be schemes to push it.

>writing story, two chapters in
>get idea for completely different story/setting inspired by disappointing book I'm reading
>my brain is now brainstorming for that setting instead of the story I'm writing

Stop.... Please....

>>18317143
Just enjoy it and write down all the ideas and thoughts about the new shit. There is nothing better than getting a hit of inspiration.

>>18317142
How about you try pushing back against it instead of accepting it as implicit? Why does everyone just accept this as a given? If enough people were spontaneously convinced that social media self promotion acts in active detriment to the health of the medium, we would stop giving a shit about faggy, parasitic careerists and start looking for good literature. It's not impossible, it's just that it's been conceded before even making an effort.

>>18317143
I usually turn those in to short stories off to the side. It's nice to flex your creative muscles on a different project from time to time. Maybe you'll come up with something that you could somehow apply to your main story.

>>18317181
>How about you try pushing back against it instead of accepting it as implicit?
>"Just end Capitalism, bro."
Come on.
>If enough people were spontaneously convinced that social media self promotion acts in active detriment to the health of the medium
The majority doesn't give any shits. Gotta pick your battles, mate. Long lost causes ain't it.

I didn't realize writing was just a medium to seethe and be butthurt over people making money from it with middling stories.

>>18317258
Then you didn't read enough books. It's a solitary medium, obviously tons of writers use their work as a venting mechanism. If they do it well enough, others will enjoy reading it too.

i have finally gotten over my 'i wasted my best years, it's all pointless' phase and i'd like to learn to write now
what books would you recommend to someone who hasn't read anything since 6th grade?
mostly i would just want some comfy fiction to learn proper english, practice reading and fix my attention span, and also to see what good writing actually looks like

>>18317356
A Confederacy of Dunces.

>>18317356
Jonathan Livingston Seagull

>>18317187
This. Happens every time I start a new project. Best to use them as practice. Once I went back to one of the short stories and used it as the basis for my next novel. Of course, then I had the same thing happen after a few chapters of that but I've come to see it as a good thing.

>>18313429
This is really funny dude, made me (literally) laugh out loud

>working on concept for a story
>find out someone else has a similar concept that they've already started/finished
How do I go on...?

>>18317748
Do it anyway, let God sort them out.

>>18312135
Yes.

>>18317836
this is cheating

>>18311731
>"Shot open" is already an abrupt action, so "abruptly" is an unnecessary adverb here.
But it looks cooler. It's a superlative. His eyes shot open, but not only that, they shot open abruptly, making them even more abrupt than they already were.

There are benefits to redundancy that your so-called professional analysis fails to understand.

>>18311977
>But instead of slowing things down and really trying to build up each scene, he would fluff it with info dumps and redundant language.
How would you do that?

>>18318047
Tbqh, I'm not even sure if this is bait. It's true that redundancies can make sense (in these cases they technically aren't redundancies then) but in this very example it just reads clunky. "Shot open" is only weakened by "abruptly".

>>18318066
>in this very example it just reads clunky
To you.
I'm telling you my opinion, and I suspect that the guys giving him 3k a month on patreon feel the same way.

>>18318074
>I suspect that the guys giving him 3k a month on patreon feel the same way.
And here it gets very tricky. Do they actually prefer it that way or just don't mind enough because the rest of the story outshines the writing for them?

>>18317748
Add a little twist, honestly no one else gives a fuck about copying others, so why should you?

Or you can read that book and see what you like/would have done differently and maybe you'll get something else.

I posted an excerpt from a book I'm writing 4 years ago here and at least 5 of you liked it. I became an engineer in that time and it's almost finished and I'm scared to post it again.

>>18318074
People don't support authors like MoL's because of his wondrous prose, but simply because it's a long-running serial, they've been following the story for years and got attached to it, despite its flaws.

I remember when I was 15 and reading LN translations. I didn't give a fuck about grammar or sentence structure, I just dug the meaning out of the garbled mess of letters and filled the holes with imagination. I projected myself in the characters and lived through them simply because I didn't know better. It's the same phenomenon at work.

>>18318047
>inspired by D&D magic, Planescape as a setting, Naruto and Harry Potter, especially fanfiction
Just because some may look better on paper doesn't mean it reads well. I think you're over estimating how much thought went into the use of language in MoL. The guy that wrote it is a native Croatian but went out of his way to write it in English for a bigger audience. It's an impressive webnovel that must've taken a lot of effort but it reads like something you'd find off the internet.

>>18318288
>it reads like something you'd find off the internet.
It reads like what it is?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

>>18318257
It's the same for me and MTL webnovels.

>>18318257
Me and Toaru. I'll never stop reading fuck whatever you guys say.

>>18318372
>going by what you like instead of what pseud tell you to like
Dangerously based.

>>18318372
>Me and Naruto. I'll never stop reading fuck whatever you guys say

>>18318372
>Me and DragonBall. I'll never stop reading fuck whatever you guys say.

>>18318372
>Me and Barney. I'll never stop reading fuck whatever you guys say.

>>18318372
Me and nothing. I'll

>>18318372
>Me and a travel pamphlet. I'll never stop reading fuck whatever you guys say.

>>18318610
How can he keep reading the pamphlet bros? What am I missing?

>>18318372
based as hell I'll never stop lusting after Index's fat petite loli ass too

>>18317372
this would be a good book to read first, and last

>want to avoid the slush pile for my next novel's query
>writers' conference is coming up in October
>need to write and edit a ~100k novel before then
>also going to be going to school in the fall

If I meet any agents or editors there, would it be fine to give them a sample and my elevator pitch but say the actual draft is 3/4 complete, and that I'll contact them again when it is complete? Asking this here might be a long-shot because most of you are Royal Retards.

i'm experiencing an issue that makes me very anxious - i cannot sense when i should describe shit or not. sometimes i glance over important things like character's flat layout and focus on shit like describing what their wheelchair looks like (because one of the charscters is paraplegic) despite the fact that the reader has probably seen a wheelchair in their lifetime. am i fucked? should i try writing an experiment novel to make myself learn how to sense when i should describe something

>working on some scene
>use Illuminati and similar imagery for a fun result
>OCD activates and threatens me with bad thoughts and the like
>OCD wants me to abandon the idea, scrap it or else it makes me feel horrible
>Intrusive thoughts don't want me to work on my writing
Any advice? Any book on defeating this thing?

>>18318925
i am am an agent and very kimporatant all my authors are best selling. no you cannooooot write 3/4 of book and pitch it it must be done. trust me i am agent. also fodn't bother finish book yor 2 stupid

>>18318976
Tinfoil hat. They don't want you spreading the word. You need to block the signals.

>>18311164
editing... sending to editor within weeks... hell, maybe even days... no, i'm gonna pay for the service... question is will they even accept it... i'm certain... i wish i could tell you but... only reason i'm here is... so i can procrastinate between working... and since you haven't contributed... i can't give you credit for it... it's a shame... cause i'd love to talk about it... cause i know you'd love it... maybe even more than i do...

>>18318925
I've been under the impression such a practice was frowned upon because they expect you to have all of it finished, presentable and can be delivered as a final product as-is. They'll probably smile, give a nod and promptly forget about you because they have literally thousands of other manuscripts to get through, some of which who may or may not be doing the same thing as well.

>>18319015
this guy is probably right and this is why i'm going for self publishing. If i need to have the whole product done, why the fuck would i need them? compare that to what used to be record labels, where they go "hey, this person has talent/sale possibilities, lets throw some money on it and see if it floats". The equivalent to publishing houses' responses would be "i'm sorry but you haven't recorded in a professional studio, with the correct production value and the right studio musicians. Please come back when you've done that."
Fuck those guys.

>>18318925
You want to pitch a novel you haven't finished writing? By the time you get around to selling it the publisher wants a complete product with minimal editing on their part. Unless you're already an established author, nobody is going to take unfinished manuscript seriously.

>>18319038
They do the publishing and the editing and the promoting and all that shit. But you still have to write the book yourself, anon. They can't really do anything until it's finished.

Do you think it is important for a scifi writer to study the "sci"?
As in constnatly be reading new stuff on physics, biology, anthropology, linguistics, economics?
I am working on a short sotry that may turn into something bigger that's set in the future. It's main focus is a "small man" (Pushkin, Gogol, Chekhov and other Russia authors) and his life aboard an exploratory space ship under a comand of someone larger than life (like shepard in Mass Effect, for expample, but more grounded).
I am concerned with the originality of the "science" part of my fiction and currently looking to broaden my knowledge in subjects other than history and economics (which I studied at the uni).
The question is, how deep should I go.

Any advice would be appreciated.

>>18319134
>should science-fiction contain any science
What do you think?

>>18319148
You misunderstand the question. If you have any experience in writing scifi, please share your thoughts on the method of writing the science part.

>>18319134
>Do you think it is important for a scifi writer to study the "sci"?
>As in constnatly be reading new stuff on physics, biology, anthropology, linguistics, economics?
I'm writing a soft/hard/hand-waving sci-fi space opera set in an interstellar 29th century and I don't worry about the details too much. Write what you know and all that, but don't be afraid of a little hand-waving so you don't get bogged down with worldbuilding. This post from a few threads ago >>18294253 got it I think.

>>18319167
Anon, you’re asking the sci-fi equivalent of fantasy worldbuilding. Ask yourself this, would you read it if it was someone else’s story?

>>18319082
publishing is basically just having the connecdtions to sell/market that shit. I have no interest in selling many copies, i just want the book to be the way i want it. Also about editing? how bout my friend who got the reply from the publisher that "this is two different books in one, you should split them up into separate stories". How about he gets that response before he's fucking finished the book? Now he's stuck rewriting his shit, having wasted tens, if not hundreds, of hours. Fuck. Them.

Is it a good idea to try to enroll in a creative writing program? Like a one or two year masters or something?
Has anyone here done that?

>>18319134
I don't think it's too important for a mainstream audience. Things like Star Trek and Star Wars are mind-shatteringly popular and they hardly ever delve into the technical aspects of the future. Meanwhile the hardest scifi TV show I can think of is The Expanse, and even that has an injection of rule-breaking soft scifi alien bullshit to keep people interested.

>>18319134
seems to me like the focus of your story is the relations on the ship and the interactions between the men/other characters. The "sci" part seems to be a backdrop and thus not so important.
Let's say you're writing a story about today - do you bother explaining how phones and computers work? So just write it in that sexy cyberpunk "namedrop tech and never explain it" way.

>>18319281
I want to see a scifi story where a human asks an alien "how does your hyperdrive work?" and the alien just goes "I don't know, Craig, how does a screwdriver work?"

>>18319274
The authors of Expanse clearly have studied the theme quite extensively to make the universe believable enough.
I may be wrong but it seems to me the scifi has been progressively getting harder throughout the years.

>>18319281
That's one part of how I want to build authenticity. My character works in an HR/accounting. He has no clue how things work.

>>18319232
Editing is rewriting, that's the polishing that you mentioned. You have to write it to get feedback and you have to get feedback to polish it. Sounds like your friend could have googled standard wordcounts and gotten some feedback earlier from other writers. Or prepared himself for negative feedback at least. That response is more than most people get. Writing and editing is hard work and it takes a lot of hours. Grow up.

>>18319232
You were the one asking about getting it in the hands of agents and editors. Plus it isn't just the connections, it's the financial backing and reputability that comes with going through a major publisher. They're in the business of making money and that means selling as many books as possible. If that's not what you're trying to do, nobody is forcing you to do so.

>>18319134
Sci fi is often:
>military sci fi made by people who were in the army
>genre x but in space/future, including the usual medieval fantasy kindgom world saving
>Concepts wrapped into narrative made by people with doctorates in scientific/engineering/etc fields
>Author got an idea and stepped into the impossible, like Clarke's 2nd law? I think advises.

>>18319315
>grow up
Alright, i'm gonna try to not be... unkind. My friend is a now retired person with a PhD. He does know about word counts and all that stuff so please stop assuming that everyone on here is an animefag or a royal roader (as if there's a difference..)
My critique against the publishing houses is that they won't even throw you a bone while you're in the process.

Also >>18319316
Im not the one asking for the advice, i just replied to a dude replying to the guy who was gonna try to pitch his stuff.
Like you wrote it: they're in the business of making money and i'm in the business of writing books the way i wan't em. My emotions stem from my earlier misconception that publishers and their editors actually could be helpful in the process. I don't give a fuck about how many times you tell me that that's what they do once i'm done with the book. Look at my argument about the music industry. It should work the same way but it doesn't. This is an opinion. You seem to disagree. Good for you. I'm gonna self publish. Good for me.

>>18319299
Harder sci fi is the same trend as *grittier* comic book movies.
A sci fi work needs to be immersive through interesting detail, not live 20min into the future at best.

>>18319298
how does your computer work? Ok an easier one, how does a car work?

Why should every alien know how their technology works when we don't? The more advanced the tech, the worse people are at explaining it. Your argument gets worse the more i think about it.

>>18319390
I believe you both are talking about the same thing.

>>18319365
>won't even throw you a bone while you're in the process.
Why should they? They have thousands of manuscripts being sent to them at any given time. Many of those manuscripts with thousands of hours put in to them and ready to be published.
>Look at my argument about the music industry
The music and literary industries are not similar in the slightest. You sound like a total faggot, angry because things don't work the way you want it to.

>>18319423
>implying all manuscripts and ideas are equally good
They are not.
>i am angry
i'm not anymore. But the fact that they specifically say "don't send in your manuscript until you've polishied it to perfection" and then go "change this, this, this and this" is kind of a dick move, don't you think?

The industries are diffrent but i believe that we'd have a lot more interesting books to read if the publishing industry was more like the music industry. This is my belief. Nothing can change that except proof or indication of the contrary.

>>18318372
>Me and web advertisements. I'll never stop reading fuck whatever you guys say

>>18319461
It isn't a dick move at all. Finish it to the best of your ability and then they will give feedback. Why would they give feedback on something that you've not even bothered to finish?

>>18319365
>My friend is a now retired person with a PhD. He does know about word counts and all that stuff
So he should know that writing is rewriting and that you have to spend time on a novel. And he would know that publishers will often not give feedback and that they might not like the way he's written it. I don't see that it is their fault that they didn't like what he wrote.

>>18311164
4k~ words on upcoming chappy. Bit more lore done. Electrocution joke also found a way in, that makes me happy.

>>18319475
consider doing things this way in any other field in life.

>>18319390
>>18319408
yeah, that was kinda my point

>>18319570
ok, sry, misread that

/wg/ i think im developing a bad habit of making every story lead up to "the dog was the mastermind all along!"

>>18319583
Nobody cares.

>>18319557
do you get feedback on a cake before it has been in the oven?

>>18319281
Think of it from engineers working on a ship, is the XYZ bleepbloop machine broken, fixed, maintained, powered up, down, and how they interact with it. No one talks about the theory on a ship, they have a job they are trained to do, so they action it.

>>18319585
do you come here just to post that?

>>18319597
motherfucker, you activated my trap card

"do you think this sauce is salty enough?"
>finish it and i'll let you know
"Is this dress appropriate for this dinner"
>let's go to the dinner and i'll let you know
"i'm wondering about this career, maybe i should talk to someone that works in this field"
>i'll let you know when you've finished your degree

fuck you man, you got nothing and all you want to is come out on top. Books ain't a fucking cake. They can be adjusted before being finished. Or do you reuse the same fucking cake if it turns out to be bad? Your analogy is flawed.

>>18319270
a whole program? no. waste of time.
taking a class here and there in order to force you to write and critique others work. sure.
really though the most important thing is that you put in the time to write, followed by that you're at least moderately well read. if taking a class gets you to write and read more then its worth it

>>18319641
Your music industry was also flawed. Books aren't songs. But regardless, you need to have written songs in order to get the attention of record labels. Much like you need to write a book before getting the attention of a publisher.
Further, you would amend the cake recipe based on feedback but you still need to actually bake it first.

>>18319654
>trying to make it work this hard

"hey man, i think you should have the double chorus before the final bridge"
"Oh, thanks, that's a good idea!"

U goofd again. Fuck you and good night, i'm off to bed.

I'm a newbie at writing, I got inspired by the now sadly shit AIDungeon to really start writing and have started on a novel which I am 49k words into. How important is shit like patreon if I want to try and make money? Is self-publishing the way to go? I got shitloads of time and my economic situation is good, but I would much rather be a poor writer than a rich wagie, I really enjoy sitting down for hours at a time and just letting words flow.

>>18319724
I love how smart you think you are. That would be the 'first draft' of the song. Idiot.

>>18319753
The safest path is to get a day job for reliable income and wait until you have something worth presenting before you make the leap

>>18319583
You know the silent hill writer has some joke endings where the bad guy is the dog. It's not too uncommon and a lot of people think it's cute/funny.
Stories that don't take themselves too seriously can be fun sometimes too.

>feel very lonely, no one to talk to
>continue your story
>main guy starts talking like a melancholic autist out of nowhere
My loneliness affects my book bros

>>18320048
Nobody cares.

>>18320056
i know
sorry

>>18320062
i want to cuddle this anon

>>18320103
gay. God I wish that were me

>>18319894
Not that anon but I've got the weekly job. Weekly writing ethic. Writing the first (most likely terrible novel) wtf do I do for publishers??

When is enough world building? Someone in my critique group bitched about my environment not seeming "real" enough. How do you make it more real? Do you have to go the Tolkien/GRRM route and interrupt your story for pages on end describing a history that has jack shit to do with the story at hand?

>>18320145
>Someone in my critique group bitched about my environment not seeming "real" enough
that has nothing to do with your worldbuilding and everything to do with you not describing things enough with your prose.

>>18320145
Write what you'd want to read.

>>18320145
I like to drop hints at a wider world, with characters referencing things beyond the scope of the plot. If you do it right, the reader gets enough info to form their own idea of it without you having to explain it.
If you get it wrong, it feels kitschy.

>>18320127
Idk worrying about a publisher 1st novel you write usually won't be good.

>>18319918
true, and my story IS a comedy but in this case it would actually be dead serious

the supposed big bad is a cave johnson-like figure
known as the director who experimented with exposing animals and humans (starting with his pet cat) to some generic magic bullshit power crystals that caused seemingly random mutations some of which involved increased sapience, hoping it could be used for the good of humanity. he didn't realize until too late that these experiments were leading to environmal disaster because his cat hid that the experiments had increased its intelligence enough to understand what the director was doing and hide data so the experiments could continue long enough for it to set its rise of the planet of the apes-style uprising in motion

the mc learns this as they explore the post-apocalyptic lab in search of the director. it basically plays out like the plot of portal 2 only glados is a mysterious catboy with no face

>>18320194
This. Focus on finishing the novel. Once it's done, you can worry about whether it's good or not. Getting it done is the most important part.

>>18320197
That reminds me of a villain in one Farscape episode. He's a monstrous alien scientist who uses genetic modification on himself (but not before testing it on his hideous assistants) to try and perfect himself.
The cast eventually gets to talk to one of the assistants and finds out that they started out as genetic researchers, and the villain was originally their literal lab rat who, once they started increasing his intelligence, hid how smart he was getting until he could turn the tables on them.

>>18316893
You got a boogeyman in your head homie. To assume someone doing the basic labor associated with web serials is a slimy hack is a bit of a leap. Networking and making a name for yourself is essential, as much so as quality work. In terms of success, even more so
It's why traditional publishing even exists still. It's bullshit and a pain in the ass that's likely to fail, let a publishing house do it for you

Why would anyone want to read anything put out by the misanthropes making up 80% of this thread?

>>18320280
Because misanthropy is a based literary motivator. But if you've read anything posted here you'd know people are writing down to earth stories focused on human lives. Cool larp though
>>18320145
Gothgf anon? Your writing group sounds full of shit and low level

>>18320295
>Gothgf anon?
Are you okay?

>>18320303
There was an anon who posted earlier about how his writing group was autistic about world building and especially about making maps. He wanted to make a map to score the cute goth girl in his group
I'm an autist who doesn't want to go to live meet ups if I can help it so I've never joined a group but I'm starting to suspect suspect that 'world builders' are some sort of surface scum on writing culture

>>18320314
>I'm an autist who doesn't want to go to live meet ups if I can help it so I've never joined a group but I'm starting to suspect suspect that 'world builders' are some sort of surface scum on writing culture
They're the fantasy equivalent of pseuds. So, yes, they are scum.

>>18320145
they're probably bad at giving critique, identified that they didn't feel immersed, and injected their own opinionated conclusion
when getting crit from shitters you have to think about how most of them are going to address the symptom and have no clue of the cause

>>18318925
Anon, you're supposed to seriously considered querying after your work is complete and ran through a few editing stages. It's just unprofessional at this point (and you're obviously not getting the benefit of doubt for a cool pitch like an author who delivered).

>>18320145
For me, when I don't feel immersed, it's usually somehow the world feeling incomplete or doesn't exist outside of the characters. This isn't necessarily the result of worldbuilding, so I agree with >>18320328

>>18320385
>Anon, you're supposed to seriously considered querying after your work is complete and ran through a few editing stages.
I know that and have done it with a previous novel. I mainly want to make connections at this writing conference to possibly bypass the slush pile.

>>18319134
>Do you think it is important for a scifi writer to study the "sci"?
It's important for any writer.
>The question is, how deep should I go.
At least deep enough to trick the non-expert readers into thinking you have a clue.

>>18320390
>He thinks he's special enough to bypass the slush pile
NGMI

>>18319134
>genre rooted in autistic speculations by nerds
>should I be knowledgeable in a field so that I can speculate?
fucking I don't know, figure it out
sci-fi hardly means science fiction anymore. it's just fantasy with a shiny coat of paint. your writing can be whatever you want it to be, defining yourself by the most common aspects of the label will just make you a derivative hack
just write

>>18319232
>I have no interest in selling many copies
Why even bother agents then? Their livelihood depends on your shit selling. If all you want is a book out there, there is Amazon and RR.
>How about he gets that response before he's fucking finished the book?
People with experience can tell how the market will receive certain ideas and how much space these ideas need.

>>18320314
Got it. I'm not that anon. But I've had to put up with world building autists in my writing groups. People who will brag about filling private wikis with their lore. But haven't written word 1 of an actual story yet. I personally detest world building. Great, you figured out the first love of your main character's great great grandmother. But you have no concept of plotting. You've completed wasted your time.

Just wrote a little bit of a bigger story, wanted to see if I could get some critique:

https://pastebin.com/RS8cnLM4

>>18320390
That's not how it works. At best the agent likes the shit and tells you to query when you're ready, and you can use the conference for the opening line. If they happen to remember you, they might give it a longer look.

>>18320314
If that guy that is looking for a goth gf has his shadow billowing off the campfire right now, here's some advice from someone that actually had one for a while.
Be chill. We know the goth type isn't preppy save the world types. We're shadowknights to the paladins. If you're changing yourself to fit her world she'll smell it from a mile away because you don't have her entire story and you'll change yourself into something imperfect if you don't have all the pieces.
The best you can do is act normal, see if she wants to talk to you and spend time together. Let her open up. Don't be like hey okay I like everything you like let's get married and have 500 babies, because there's probably a lot of reservations going on that you don't know about. She may be a cutter. She may be a real bit softie. You don't know.
Never judge a book by its cover. It won't do you any good.

>>18320451
>changing yourself to fit her world she'll smell it from a mile away
based, I told him the same shit
glad to see so many enlightened goth connoisseurs in this thread. earnesty is the best policy. not honesty, don't tell her your an autist who posts on a mongolian throat singing forum, but act as you would usually
plus some basic charm and social assertiveness of course

>>18320427
good 'inbetween scenes' prose. it makes me glaze over, but in a comfortable way. if all of your empty scenes read this way, you should probably feel good about yourself. unhurried prose that doesn't call attention to itself

>>18320572
Thanks, but now you've got me worried that my higher stakes scenes are boring too.

>>18320194
>>18320203
I agree it'll be shit. Just curious.

>>18320314
It's because worldbuilding "purists" get so wrapped up in every nitty gritty detail of their world from world history to family lines even to the laws of physics, because they're sure it'll make their story better. The more detail=the better the story.
But worldbuilding is fractal. There's always more stuff to elaborate on. Build a town, then you need a kingdom to rule it. Then a country it's in. Then the alliance of kingdoms, each with its own culture and nobles and drama. You can only go deeper.
And to a worldbuilder, that's the goal. In the end, they don't care about any actual writing. They just want to craft their static little perfect world, like a model train set.

>>18320891
damn straight that's why in my world i just got rid of butt holes and the speed of light because one of those things helps the plot move forward and that's what's important

>>18311164
How the FUCK do I name all these God damn characters.

>>18320953
I've been hesitant to post this here, because it's either retarded or genius, but once I went to court for a short amount of time and noted down the surnames of people who had to attend that day. They had them all up on a rotating screen, like those which replaced the split-flap displays
at airports. I have a large pad of names to scan each time I need a new surname, first names are easy.

>>18320916

>>18320953
Try a name generator, you know, something that can be search using a search engine.

>>18321037
How the FUCK do I find a God damn search engine.

>>18321056
I'm done trying to help your retarded ass.

>>18320953
>>18321056
No wonder /wg/ is shit, with people like you not even putting in the bare minimum effort for your stories

>>18321059
>>18321136
you guys just bit bait
cmon

>>18321146
Don't care, just tired of seeing all of these basic questions being posted here.

>>18321150
And blogposts as well.

>>18321146
Bait questions are really driving down /wg/ quality.

I've sold about 300 copies of my first book so far. Youtube nearing 24k. Two more books almost finished being written. Feels good man

>>18321168
Link to buy your book?

>>18320983
Let's go with genius

>>18321037
Yea but I feel like I keep getting either boring fucking names or a long run of weird ones.
>>18321059
That wasn't me kek
>>18321136
Thanks I know what a name generator is. That's part of my struggle is trying to pick names that connect with the character. I know I can just go grab any name. But isn't that the minimal effort you were just complaining sbout? Hmm

>>18321170
Just type the title into amazon. Last time i posted a link i got a warning.

>>18321172
>That's part of my struggle is trying to pick names that connect with the character. I know I can just go grab any name. But isn't that the minimal effort you were just complaining sbout? Hmm
Place holder names are a thing, just used them until you find a name that suits you.

>>18321176
Will do.

New thread
>>18321190

>>18321178
Thanks thats what I'll do. Just named someone Mary. Yuck.

>names aren't an integral part of his stories themes
soulless but gmi