/lit/ - Literature

reposting from old thread.
4k words but its the full outline of my graphic novel before i start thumbnailing.
apologies on messy structure, im more of a visual person and will attempt making a better format for sharing soon. for now, it serves its purpose for me artistically when making the panels.

https://pastebin.com/GHXysx1d

>https://pastebin.com/EEQAcDXq
This is the second draft of a short story I've been working on for a bit. I'd love some feedback in whatever form. Pastebin sucks for formatting so picrel is the most significant usage of italics. I'm mostly interested in whether or not the "twist" comes through well enough, but anything is welcome.
>>18300480
I'll give it a read through and post below.

Short story I wrote about about being a sad fag and trying to write my way out of feeling sorry for myself. Pastebin flagged it for being offensive so had to censor every naughty word. Tell me if you like it, definitely the corniest of anything I wrote. Also haven't edited any of it so give me a break lol.

https://pastebin.com/wBmVWyQt

>>18300480
My initial impression is that the dialogue is weak, almost unnecessary for the opening scenes. For example, you could easily give the impression visually that the girl has been "like that" for a while now. An uneaten bowl of food or something could also replace the character's observation that she hasn't eaten well either. You could also have a reason for this that I can't see.

I get this feeling of sparsity or austerity from these scenes. I think this is why the dialogue feels unnecessary. At the same time, maybe the MC is himself reacting to this. Lots of ways it could go. Maybe the art can carry the whole thing as is. I don't know.

In fact, I don't think I know at all how to critique this.

>”we have given you a fulfilling life, far more than an average day surviving to the next would. We can continue. Being the ever present force that makes your day whole, or you can fight against it. foolishly hoping for more meaning, with the lack of any motive. motive we can and have granted you before.”
It's made a lot more difficult when it looks like it's in need of a basic proofreading.

>>18300570

>>18300577
>Also haven't edited any of it
lrn 2 reed

>>18300581
so edit it
why the fuck are you sharing work you know is absolute dookie
it's not even that long. take 20 minutes, clean it up, then show people
what do you expect to hear? the most immediate thing that impresses on readers is jank grammar and syntax

>>18300581
Okay let me break it down for you. It's really hard to look past the basic grammatical issues in order to get to the meat of it. It's distracting. To anyone who actually knows how to format a sentence in the English language, these errors pop out of the page. Grammar is supposed to be inconspicuous. It's supposed to fade into the background. When you post a completely unedited work, you're acting against your own best interest by completely precluding any kind of meaningful analysis except by other people who don't have a good command of grammar. It's literally impossible to ignore because it invokes a knee-jerk response to fix it, like you would with your own writing.

>>18300592
>>18300594
Grammar doesn't mean anything if the content itself is shit which is what I'm worried about.

>>18300451
I got back into it. Couple hundred words a day at most. Really slow work.
>>18300577
"However", he asked, "can't you put the comma after the thingie?"

>>18300600
it means you have the basic decency to show something worth being seen
fix your grammar and you'll get input on your content
>no I don't have to put in any thought or effort, just validate me
9/10 new writers will say this. don't be one of them
fix it and come back

>>18300600
I really don't understand your attitude. Grammar is something that should probably come as naturally as breathing to a writer. It's such an important part of sentence structure beyond just putting the right symbol in the right place. Grammar is, in one way of looking at it, the literal essence of writing. It enables so much more complexity and nuance once you've got a decent command of what you can and can't do without tripping a reader's retard sensor.

>>18300605
Brits do that, I think. It's uncommon in the states.

>>18300620
new around here?
you get 1 or 2 of these people every thread
save your good faith and effort for those who show the willingness to put it to practice

>>18300631
I've been around for a bit. I just can't leave a good boulder unpushed.

>>18300571
the dialogue is a tough part for me. as you said, i do intend for it to be carried by the art. using sound FX or reaction blurbs would aid in the "sound" but im for sure going to give the dialogue all together another pass. especially the final monologue. i just left the general idea there, though each line would be in its own bubble.

youre observation of the MC reacting to his dialogue is correct though. i want to show a lot of confusion between what he wants to do and what he has to do. responsibility surviving and protecting the girl outweighing his enjoyments and true fulfillments in life.

any opinions on the story/flow as a whole? i get the idea that this board is more for word smiths, but we dont see a thesaurus as the best seller. lol

>>18300620
Because I've spent that much time reading authors that bend the rules that the rules literally leave my head until I re-learn it again, then when I write in the accepted style of where I'm from you always get fags attacking it and arguing about the "correct" way. When I critique things here the grammar is honestly the last thing on my mind, the content is always the most important and editing is the very last thing that is done; nobody cares if you're grammar is perfect if the story is dull as dishwater.

>>18300645
its grammar
GRAMMAR
FUCK
ITS NOT A FUCKING STYLISTIC CHOICE
ITS GRAMMAR

>>18300652
>its grammar
>GRAMMAR
>FUCK
>ITS NOT A FUCKING STYLISTIC CHOICE
>ITS GRAMMAR
It's* :^)

>>18300657
please critique for the content not the grammar

>>18300645
I am probably the most unabashedly experimental author who posts here. Every other thing I write is ruthlessly excoriated here and elsewhere for my stylistic choices. Ending your dialogue with a full stop and beginning with a period is not a stylistic choice; it's an error. You have to find the line that separates the two before you can straddle it. You have to give a reader evidence that you even have a clue where within a 10 lightyear radius that line even lies. There is categorically no evidence of this dynamic in your writing. All I see is in genuine error.

>>18300660
>He's still seetheposting

>>18300675
>glub glub
haha look im a fish haha

>>18300673
>Ending your dialogue with a full stop and beginning with a period
Ending your dialogue with a full stop and beginning your dialogue tag with a capital letter, rather. You're getting me worked up.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/37998/wish-mountain

Woohoo, 23 followers! That's one better than 22!

>Hress Dunter is handsome, devil-may-care, and known as a bounty hunter of monstrous beings known as Accursed. After saving a woman from a dark fate, Hress is placed on trial with his very life hanging in the balance. From this first falling domino Hress's own fate will be turned towards the great and mysterious WISH MOUNTAIN, where the most dangerous Accursed find their origin.

>>18300673
I never said they weren't errors, I'm very rusty, this is the first I've written in a very long time. My point was that I've gone from reading a lot of books that completely ignore grammar around speech, most authors I read always go for that style as well so it's not like I'm picking it up passively either. This is the literal first draft of a 2000 word story, I am only looking for feedback on the actual content over anything else,that is what is important to me, everything else will be fixed when I go back and edit it manually.

>I do NOT have to try
>I will NOT edit
>you WILL validate me
dime a dozen mentality
the strangest thing is that fixing grammar doesn't even take much time or effort

>>18300644
Like you said, I personally care a lot more for the artistry of language use than much of anything else. This is very general, but a lot of the dialogue reads amateurish in a way that can only really be fixed by reading a lot of serious literature. I don't know what graphic novel readers will expect so again I don't know how important that even is.

As for the story, there are only so many permutations of the same basic structures. If you do a bit of cursory research on story structure and make sure it abides more or less by one of them, you've got a good chance of having something that works... provided your art is up to snuff, of course.

Oh, and maybe err on the side of making your character a stoic if you're having trouble with dialogue. Or just hire an editor when the whole thing is done. The dialogue you have could act as a blueprint rather than anything final. That's how I'd try to look at it, anyway.

>>18300706
This. If he'd spent the time fixing grammar rather than arguing he'd already have something that doesn't read like pounding rusty nails into your ballsack.

>>18300706
I for one feel like I deserve validation and praise in place of criticism.

>>18300693
Well, let me just say this: you can argue until you're blue in the face and I'm still not going to read what you wrote. It's you who wants something from me rather than the other way around. Most people are going to feel similarly. I doubt you're going to have much success convincing people otherwise.

>>18300725
I mean, I've had plenty of my works in the past critiqued here on the first draft without me editing the grammar, this is literally the first time it's ever been mentioned.

>>18300711
pretty much how i look at it too. he has a few outbursts and many points where his expressions will be the forefront of the image. so far from stoic, just no need to speak. so yeah the dialogue is mostly a guideline or just another type of reaction from him.

as for structure, been comparing with hero's journey, Harmon's story circle, 3 act, chekhov's gun, etc. known about them all for years, but plenty of comparison during the process as well.

now i just need to figure out if its good. you can make an omelet step by step and it can just be bland by the end.

>>18300688
>tfw got more before I got sick of serial writing
>tfw mine is worse than your story by miles
it aint easy being this damn handsome

>>18300750
>mine is worse

No need to put yourself down, fren. It must be pretty decent to get some followers. RR is a bit meme-y when it comes to what gets hits to be fair.

Also good job on being handsome. No homo.

>>18300748
But you can't evaluate the whole omelet by sampling its components. Raw egg by itself is fucking nasty, and even cheap peppers can work once you've sautéed them, as long as the whole is good. But you won't know until you cook the omelet. Take the plunge, anon.

>>18300760
thanks breh
I'd share but it's honestly so bad as to be embarrassing. I was doing it daily for a bit over a month. writing without any kind of outline is just absurdly difficult, at least for my skill level
I've got my own secret recipe for RR success, trying to finish a serial length story for it now. you need a certain degree of boy like whimsy and taste. all the litRPG, isekai and general genre fiction shit is just a symbol for what people truly desire
F U N

>>18300764
if i think about eggs too hard they are fucking gross. just... why the reproductive byproduct? why?

i suppose youre a different poster? my crappy graphic novel draft is there. looking for feedback on the story before i get too deep into thumbnailing the panels and have to backtrack. im not a wordsmith, but neither are hicks telling stories around a bonfire

>>18300480
the draft^^^

Why the fuck does every wg have to start with a hololive pic? Die irl.

>>18300789
Wish Mountain is fun. But I guess it doesn't scream fun like 'How did I get reincarnated into the body of a beaver that can summon infinite shadow clones of itself?!'

>>18300824
Why don't you write instead?

>>18300824
I haven't even the knowledge to identify what is or is not a vtuber, it's all anime to me and means nothing
Read more books

"And who are you?"
The hooded man smiled. His grin wide and wicked, peering out through the blackened confines of his shadowed face. It was a twisted, crooked, thing. It left her with a sinking feeling in her gut, like she had stumbled upon something not meant to be seen.
"I am everyone... and I am no-one." He said, his voice sent a slithering chill racing up and down her spine. "If it is a name the girl seeks, I have many, but she can call me The One Who Deals."
"Wh-what kind of a name is that?" She asked, finding a bit of her spine through the fear.
"One that belies my function, is all. You seek power, do you not?" He waved a leather-clad hand through the stuffy air in front of his face, almost dismissively. "Power I have, power I can give... for the right price."
"You can do it?" She wrung her hands together, tightening her bony fingers into white knots. She tried to chase the quiver out of her voice, but found it harder to choke down by the second. "You can make me... a witch?"
"Oh, I can do so much more than that." A puff of smoke exploded in his right hand, nearly making her jump. She watched the black tendrils dissipate through his fingers, rapt, awed. In his hand sat a small, black, dagger. "I can make you the most powerful woman in The Seven Cities. All you have to do... is pay the price."
The obsidian blade shimmered in the dim light of the midnight moon, sharp, beckoning.
"And wh-what would you have me do?"
He leaned forward, grasping her left hand in his own, gently prying her fingers apart. One. By. One.
"Your sister is such a sad, sickly, thing, isn't she?" He said, placing the dagger in the palm of her hand. "Perhaps her soul would be put to better use... elsewhere."
A breath hitched in her throat. "Do you mean you want me to-?"
He chuckled. "Power does not come cheap, my dear. Pay the price... and you shall see why I ask so much of you."
Her hand closed tight around the dagger. Filled with purpose.

Wrote this last night on a whim. What do you guys think?

>>18300967
>blackened confines of his shadowed face
Seriously. The fuck is wrong with you?

>>18300973
I had problems with this too and almost said something. But for what it is, it fits with the rest of the piece. It sets that pulpy tone from the get-go and doesn't relent so at least it's consistent.

>>18300973
Autism? Sounded like a cool line to me.

>>18300978
I was definitely aiming for a pulpy feel. It's the kind of fantasy I enjoy the most.

>>18301043
Careful, don't take it as a compliment. It's an exceptionally poor turn of phrase. But there are readers who are willing to forgive it.

>>18301054
Sure. Can you elaborate a little? What makes it so poor? I can see it being a bit redundant, I'd just like to get a better sense of why it's so egregious.

>>18301068
Don't listen to him he sounds like a spastic, there's literally nothing with it be it for style or stand alone.

>>18301068
Sure. Like >>18301100 says, you can always just discount me as a spastic and let it slide off you if you don't agree with me. I say that genuinely.

I have a couple main issues with it. The first is that you're slapping me in the face with it, full-bore, right off the bat. No foreplay nor fondling maybe of the sack. My frenulum is left almost wholly untouched before you're stuffing my cock right up my ass hole. To me, the grandiosity of the language you use viz. what you're describing is roughly analogous to how completely out of place my cock-and-balls faux metaphor was in the context of our discussion.

Second, it doesn't even necessarily make sense. If a grin is a function of the mouth as you imply by its width, it can't peer because a mouth doesn't have eyes, and only eyes can peer, or at least eye-adjacent objects (spherical, globular, whatever) if we're stretching it. If it's the entire face you're referencing which is grinning wickedly, then you are stating that his face is peering out from the confines of his face, which to me suggests an MC Escher kind of ouroboros-like circularity to it.

tl;dr grandiosity bad when not commensurate with subject

>>18301068
In description, you want to reveal more information the more words you use. That's not the case with yours.
ex
>the black dark night
>the soft sleek fabric
>the red crimson blood
This is a failure.
I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've seen ironically bad prose done comically well, I'd be surprised if a single person on this Godforsaken board knew how to.

>>18301100
Don't fret anon, I take everything with a grain of salt. I'm just curious is all, and eager to hear opinions regardless of spasticity.

>>18301175
I can see what you mean, do you think it would be less egregious if slotted into a longer work with a similar style and tone throughout?

I can also see your complaint about peeking being used as a general verb to refer to something sliding out of the darkness. Would something like, I dunno, "sneaking" work better in your eyes?

>>18301187
Hm, I guess if I had to explain it, what I was trying to reveal was that it was a shadow that darkened his face to such a degree as to be opaque. Like I said though, I can see why some would consider it redundant.

Thanks for your input anons. A bit abrasive at the start there but I appreciate the elaboration. Hopefully I will write better for you all one day.

>>18301253
>peeking
Oops, meant peering. My bad.

https://pastebin.com/ikfXb4bE

I wrote this in an hour after playing Shin Megami Tensei

>>18301253
The specific word is unimportant. The point is that my attention was called to it with enough vigor that I wanted to tear it apart. Pretty much anything can be niggled at and poked and prodded to the point where nonsense becomes plausible. Most of the time we read things and are never compelled to dissect them in detail. The overarching point to all of this is that your use of language is a distraction. It gives a tasty morsel to people like me who chomp at the bit to find something to dislike. Everything I wrote superficially makes sense, right? I'm going to tell you right now that it's all based on completely spurious logic, all based on my gut reaction of dislike, which was a function of having my attention drawn. Most people will do this and never have the courtesy to tell you like I am, if they're even aware enough. Draw attention to the parts which are good and important. Minimize parts you don't want people scrutinizing. One of two things can happen when you draw your reader's attention to something in the way you do:
>man that's fuckin awesome
>are you fucking kidding me?

>>18301303
Dangerously cringe

>>18301303
>It was smooth and light in his hand, fitting into his hand perfectly
Stopped reading here. There doesn't exist a single human being on the planet in whose hands a Glock fits perfectly.

>>18301368
i couldn't get any better ideas done so i just decided to write without thinking about anything

>the less writing is needed to finish a chapter, the slower my writing gets
Why this

>>18300451
What's a way to write "Freak of the Week" stories? It'd be like X Files or something.

>>18301787
Look up Calgary's Gideon Keys or the Book of Sands

Use loose anecdotes or a certain writing structure (case files for example)

>>18300967
>His grin wide and wicked, peering out through the blackened confines of his shadowed face.
Not a coherent sentence, gramatically speaking. Should be more like "His grin, wide and wicked, peered out[...]"
>It was a twisted, crooked, thing. It left her with [...]
Two sentences in a row that start with "It", in which "It" refers to the same thing. Comes off as needlessly repetitive.
>He said, his voice sent a slithering chill racing up and down her spine.
Either make "his voice" the start of a new setence, or change, "sent" to "sending".
> finding a bit of her spine through the fear.
Reads off to me, but it's slight. I think it would work better as "Finding a bit of [a] spine through her fear", for the same reason that you say "grow a spine", not "grow your spine".

>>18300615
>>18300577
based intern at a publishing house

how to make money writing without pandering to shit women read??

>>18300824
I'd be fine if it weren't westiskanks

>>18301961
write smut for some niche, content-starved fetish, then open up writing commissions after you've built up an audience.

>>18301961
>how to make money writing without making money writing
every best selling author has a fanbase largely comprised of women. Most authors who live by writing write romance and erotica for women. Find a different medium.

>>18300577
I honestly don't understand why the 6th one down is wrong?

>>18301991
Because "He nodded his head" is a different sentence, but the H being lowercased implies it's a continuation of the same one.

>>18301976
smut is even worse
>>18301983
I don't need to be a best selling author though. Not to mention what you've posted is just untrue as there are normie non women markets, retard.

>>18300824
I like the hololive girls and appreciate OP. I'm going to try to push to page 97 today on my lunch break and it makes home base feel more like home.

>>18302001
No I meant 6th down in an absolute sense, from your frame of reference 2nd down.

>>18300541
i cant take it seriously when your character has that name.

>>18302006
>there are normie non women markets
none that make money. The closest one is fantasy-scifi, but few authors who wrote that stuff do well. Most are left on the shelf, unread, regardless of quality. The exceptions are the best selling authors.

>>18302015
>"That's right." He said.
It's wrong because they should be part of the same sentence but were written as separate sentences.

>>18301961
Write nonfiction. Something like 90% of published books are nonfiction.

>>18302015
Because he said shouldn't a different sentence. It's like saying "He jumped. Really high."

>>18302028
really? hmm, I wonder if I would write this and not realise. I don't think so but I obviously didn't identify it as incorrect either

Why is it so easy to find faults in others writing and not my own? Do i really need a beta reader?

>>18302045
It's because you are blind to your own mistakes due to familiarity but are completely fresh when reading someone else's text.

>>18300570
doesnt seem too bad.

>>18301303
his hand his hand his hand

>>18302024
On purely amazon stats:
Romance/Erotica ($1.44 billion).
Crime/Mystery ($728.2 million).
Religious/Inspirational ($720 million).
Science Fiction/Fantasy ($590.2 million).
Horror ($79.6 million).

And that will skew HEAVILY towards romance erotica because nobody is buying physical copies of those, only digital. So you're wrong.

>>18300581
There's a difference between not knowing you made a mistake and accidentally overlooking one. Editing should help with the latter. Opening up a book on grammar should help with the former.

>>18302083
>market big ooga booga
>so me check big ooga booga
another neoliberal retard that can't differentiate between the success of a market and the success of an individual.

>>18302155
Outliers aren't relevant to the discussion since the question was never "how do I become rich writing"

>>18300451
No, am using the advice I got from a "JK-sama" who I assume is from here to good use.

Danke ye, JK-sama!

I'm slowly learning to do set-ups and paying things off later on in the narrative. I feel like I'm going to level up if I keep this up. Next I'm going to tackle real sub-plots.
Keep at it bros.

>>18302190
JK-sama is the cringiest faggot around after OP. Fortunately, he's moved to shilling on RR forums instead of here.

>>18302190
No problem, I think.

>>18302279
I'm flattered. Anyway I only post my work here when I feel like there's a prompted reason to do or something.

>used to want to be a writer more than anything in the world
>spent years dreaming and reading
>wrote a handful of short stories
>give it up in my mid-twenties during a period of deep melancholy
>hardly even read literature anymore
>mostly non-fiction or technical literature
>go back and read my stories again for the first time in five years last night
>see a consistent and genuinely unique voice
>think on how much I've changed and if I could dare to want it again
>afraid to find out I've lost it
>afraid to give it the space it needs in my life

>>18302664
Guess you didn't want it all that much

>>18302664
I've always seen writing as my calling. I used to play tons of video games and when I was a little kid I would make up my own games and storylines. You know how most people fidget when they're nervous? I write any time my brain is idle, even if I'm watching a movie or doing something hands off. Writing for me is as much of a reflex as it is my hobby.
The world needs readers too though so as long as you enjoy books you haven't met a terrible fate.

>>18302179
Best sellers don't become rich writing. They make money writing, which is what you asked for.

I think I worked out a strong setting and main plot, but now I fear any quirks I add while fleshing out everything else to make it relatable will just detract from them

>>18302279
Seemed pretty alright to me. Then again, only exposure I had from him was a brief comment offering some feedback.

Should I actually give that one faggot's Retard Road space opera story a chance? Is there any substance beyond the grammatical errors on the first page?

Aw yeah got to page 97. Like two sentences in. Life goals. Progress.

>>18303840
This is it, if you write one more word it'll be the farthest in your story you've ever gotten.

>>18303877
Hobbling to the finish line, slow and steady. I've got a basic scaffolding so to speak of what events I want to happen but time absolutely flies when I lose myself in fantasy but we're doing it. I'll probably make a snapshot at 100 pages just to celebrate.

>>18303877
i know this is supposed to be encouraging but sometimes less is more.

this is me trying to dodge inserting another 2-3 chapters which describe the travel part of a novel that isn't about travelling. yes, it could add something to the novel, but i'm not sure i want it in. So i'm gonna send it to the editor without putting it in. Wish me luck.

>>18302762
I got distracted and had a period of substance abuse that derailed any ability I had.

>>18300577
>tfw been doing 5 all the time because I tend to write dialogue like "Full Statement 1." pronoun verb, "Full Statement 2."
Fuggggg at least I can regex it and fix them all

>>18304008
I struggled my way through a chapter before realizing it was completely unnecessary to the plot. Now I have to decide if I should scrap it and lose out on some of the actually interesting bits of character development I put in.

Been doing some tone practice. Thoughts? I always hit these threads too late
>Bloodyshirt, he thought to himself, or maybe Redcloth. But there are things I need to hang onto for a while longer.
He did not recall the preacher’s words, though he remembered his face, still oddly pale for all that he should have been flushed with the exertion of speaking, and he remembered the trailing of the man’s torn cloak across the ground beneath his feet. Shiningstone had found him pinned to a wall, suspended half a foot up by a boar-spear the length of an oxcart thrust through his chest. The friar had not asked the boy to end his pain, and for that he was thankful. What he had told him came to him in flashes as his feet grew numb in the rushing water, less words than bare concepts.
>Ancient hammer. Magic cave. To the South. Stars will guide me. Vengeance.
The rest of the past five hours eluded him, a whirling rictus of violence which refused to cohere into images or scents or feelings. He sat shivering on the bank, and something emerged from the maelstrom, a scene, a sight, a smell, a collection of facts.
>They tore little Marigold in half. I don’t know how her limbs stayed attached, yet her torso was split down the middle.

>>18304048
Wouldn't it be "full statement 2." in this scenario or does it depend on what's said?

>>18304237
Sometimes I do
>"half statement," pronoun verb, "half statement."
but sometimes it's
>"Full statement." pronoun verb, "Full statement."
With capitalization on the second statement because it's a new sentence. Probably not right.

>>18304296
>"half statement," pronoun verb, "half statement."
"Half statement," pronoun verb, "half statement."*

>>18304130
You could use some shorter sentences in the first paragraph to break up the long trailing ones. A sentence break between "speaking" and "he remembered" would be good.
Not a fan of the AdjectiveNoun names personally. It's a little cheap.
It seems a little disjointed, which might be a style choice but makes it hard to tell what's happening. But that might just be because it's just a fragment.

>>18302057
I can't get out of the loop

>>18304546
Thanks. Does this context from earlier on make the name thing better or worse? Also, I do generally write in a disjointed way; this is a particularly disjointed passage, but it's something I tend to go to heavily on.
“I need to talk to the boy. You said his name was- how do you do it again, is it adjective-noun? Sparklestone?”
“Shiningstone. It’s not necessarily always in that order- no matter. I will tell Giantcloud to find him for you tomorrow morning.”
“I will find him tonight.”
The friar looked quite shaken. If this had been unusual in such a man, Stagsblood might have paid it greater mind..."

>>18304653
Again, not a huge fan of the naming conventions, but it's interesting that it's actually addressed within the narrative.

>>18304110
life isn't a race anon, and your novel shouldn't attempt to be one either

Hey guys how do describe something in a way that makes the reader feel cold?
Trying to describe a winter scene.

>>18305296
>It was cold.
Done.

>>18305302
You'll still get English teachers dissecting your book with questions like what did the author mean when he said it was cold?
We can go even shorter.
Brr.

>>18305296
>Peepee-Man now had the ability to fire icicles from his WILLY!
>+ New Skill: Penis Bullet Lvl 1

>>18305302
>>18305331
C'mon guys, this is unhelpful. If you need more info from me, just let me know.

>>18305346
I'd read any story written by an author with the balls to do shit like this.

>>18305347
where do you think you are, come to terms with shitposts
I would use a character's responses to cold to describe cold, but I consider that the easiest and lowest level way to convey a scene
>His freezing fingers unconsciously curled tighter into his fist.
>The cold air scratched all the way down to his lungs. With every breath it became harder to tell if the cold seeped from within or from without.
>His eyelids scraped across his eye, dried and hurting. The air's moisture lost to the flakes that crunched beneath his boots.
describing the natural world as is without a character to interpret it is hard. you'll often come across as flat like >>18305302 or pointlessly descriptive and flowery
good thing to practice. pitter patter

>>18305347
Tee hee. Uhh honestly when I'm having issues describing things I'll pop open a thesaurus and since I have some Japanese knowledge I'll go to jisho (the site) and type in stuff there too and see if I get ideas.
Generally though cold restricts you. Like if it's a biting cold the character won't be able to do certain things if he's not dressed for the occasion.
Give yourself that stupid quaking shiver you get when you're either cold or under adrenaline, note what you can or cannot do and then implement it. Like, full body motion capture but for the imagination.
In my books I'll describe the world. I'll say the streets or roofs are covered in snow.
Have a kid hit your character with a snowball. The reader will get it.

>>18305386
OK, thanks buddy. I'll keep this in mind.
>come to terms with shitposts
Nah I know. I just really want to improve my writing is all, so I got a bit disappointed there.
>>18305389
That helps. Thanks.

>>18305296
What's interesting is that this image doesn't make me feel cold. I found winter to be a very comfortable season (when I lived in a place that had winter). Just because it's cold outside doesn't mean the characters have to feel cold.

My experience with winter is that it's very quiet, peaceful, and dark. It's a very unique feeling, like an eerie silence where life should be, but it's not.

>>18305414
The story behind the picture is an anon from Greenland was about to kill himself and posted a ton of his info in the thread, until some dude from Brazil called the cops and was able to save him. That's the pic he used for his OP.

>>18305414
ooh this is good write that down write that DOWN

>>18305437
Wright!

>>18305434
Wow, that picture is already a work of art (and I rarely say that about photography in a real sense) and the backstory + the almost endless field of lifeless snowy crosses fits so well. Thanks for the explanation anon.

>>18301961
Write a cover letter and apply to some real jobs

I know that probably nobody cares but I finished my novel today
https://archiveofourown.org/series/2060763

Just finished To Kill a Mockingbird. How do I cope?

Official NGMI writing list:
>you have never completed a novel before
>you have never made money from non-self published writing
>you can't MLA format an essay properly
>you don't have a job in the field of writing
>you hate anime
>you only watch anime and don't read books
>you watch anime but hate moe
>you do not have traditional publishing as your goal
>you have ever written isekai or LitRPG
>you don't know how to format a dialogue tag
>you are afraid of "said"
>you hate speculative fiction (it is fine to be uninterested in writing it)
>you have a statue, historical emblem, or historical figure as your profile pic
>you are balding before 30
>you are self-"""""""educated""""""" and think college is useless

>>18300150
Actually, I don't really enjoy drawing but I'm also not a native speaker so properly polishing my prose might be too hard, I'm very pragmatic on this topic, anyways, thanks

>>18305775
>MLA format
lmao

>>18305775
>>you can't MLA format an essay properly
kekd

>>18305696
Congratulations. I won't read it based off these tags but good job, anyways.

>>18305827
I understand your preference but all it means is that I wrote a ton of lesbian sex scenes because I like lesbians

>>18305918
Oh, I don't mind the gay stuff. I'm just a big sissy and can't stand horror. I once got nightmares from thinking too much about the word "bogeyman". I convinced myself some creature in a sheet was going to come shaking and moaning into my room and god dammit I'm going to not sleep tonight because of that memory, fuck.

How do I extrapolate a story from the theme I've chosen to explore?

>>18305994
other way around
you write a story then rearrange it to fit your themes

>>18305988
I don't know if you're trolling me but if you're not I hope you sleep okay anon

>>18305988
BOO! I'm the sheet man! I'm here to sheet all over you!

>>18305918
Why lesbians?

>>18306000
no. how do I do it this way?

>>18305988
>shaking and moaning
lewd

>>18305988
Don't worry anon. I'm not nearly that bad but I straight up can't deal with horror either. If someone showed me a trashy horror movie I'd think about how terrible the victims fates were for the rest of the night; as well as carefully walk around hallways.

>>18306012
Because I write women as they ought to be, not as they are, and the ideal woman, like me, loves women and ends up with a cute blonde Polish mommy gf at the end of the story

>>18306005
I wish I was kidding but I'm not. I do wish you the best though.
>>18306011
Made me laugh, so thanks.

>>18301942
Sitting on 135k words here, redrafting is a terrifying prospect.

>>18305696
What's it about?

wrote a spooky short story like a said i would lads its kind of long but i had fun and i'm proud of it what do you think

>>18306069
This but 72k for the first half and already overhauling almost the entire thing since I didn't thoroughly weave my theme into the character development arcs which left the villain feeling like a goon, the MC looking like an asshole, and the final conflict feeling flat as a board

>>18306082
A reporter who just found out she has HIV and is panicking like a retard throws away her life savings to travel to Gumption, Texas, the site of the Mystery Flesh Pit, a defunct national park built inside of the largest animal on the planet, now under heavy military security, because she heard a reference to it in Billy Joel's We Didn't Start the Fire and she couldn't believe it was a real thing. When she gets there, she runs into a former park ranger involved in smuggling people into the park so they can die inside of the creature, which is the only thing that prevents them from spreading an incredibly contagious psychic illness. She tags along with the park ranger on one of these smuggling operations but things go south and they get captured by the ranger's ex-girlfriend, who is now the head of security in the corporation that takes care of the creature and makes sure it doesn't wake up. Because the ex-girlfriend isn't over the park ranger yet, she manages to get them both out of there without any charges, but before they leave she gets a call from her informant who tells her that the FBI is coming to investigate her role in the whole people-smuggling thing and she arranges for the reporter to tag along with a team of rangers who are going to go down into the creature to retrieve a magic kidneystone because if you bang it with a hammer it can keep the creature from waking up. Along the way she falls in love with a cute Polish mommy energy ranger and they have a lot of lesbian sex. She also drinks magic creature hormone water that may or may not get rid of her HIV. They find out that a bunch of giant bugs have the kidneystone so they go to where the bugs live but it turns out it's not a kidneystone at all but a Leechman Egg and the Leechman turns up, kills the bugs, and steals the crystal. Then, on the way back up, the crazy lady from part 1 turns up, takes the reporter hostage and shoots her girlfriend nonfatally, and then after a lot of bullshit the Leechman wins, the ex-girlfriend goes to federal prison, and the reporter and her cute Polish mommy gf live happily ever after.

>>18306191
Just how many loads did you blow while writing this?

>>18306214
I'm not going to answer that question

>>18306217
Okay so a lot. Gonna go ahead and not read your fetish story. I'm sure it's pretty good but I'm not into that.

>>18306225
You aren't going to believe me but the sex scenes are actually pretty tasteful and non-pornographic.

>>18306239
>Elena goes to relive herself
Way to kill the mood.

Rest is actually pretty decent, specially when it comes to readability. IMO you go too fast into the sexy stuff, instead of teasing the reader more with the atmosphere.

>>18306255
This isn't their first sex scene, the first one has more of a lead-in. I do agree that it goes a little fast but that's because the main character is supposed to be a brusque matter-of-fact asshole and because it's from her perspective that's how she portrays it. It might not be a good reason but at least there is a reason.

It really isn't a fetish thing, honest. It's more like my love letter to Michael Crichton.

>>18306255
Or, actually, more accurately, the point of this scene isn't the sex, it's the pillow-talk afterwards where they cuddle and have some character building. That's why it feels rushed just in this snippet, because they have to have sex to get to the cuddling.

After way too many attempts, I think I found a start for the query that I don't hate. Cut the names and the third paragraph is still missing.

I doubt it's something the average lit fag is into but oh well. Is the genre somewhat obvious? Can one follow the character motivation/conflict and see the stakes? Convince my tipsy brain it's pure shit, please.

Bros I'm having so much fun writing today. Very comfy.

>>18306016
think of scene that would best illustrate your theme, and write your story to make that scene happen.

>>18306239
>the sex scenes are actually pretty tasteful and non-pornographic
that's because its lesbian 'sex'. lesbians can't have sex. the best they can do is mutual masturbation. and that's in stories. irl lesbians suffer the most from dead bedroom syndrome and have the highest levels of domestic violence.

>>18306604
see >>18306019

>>18306611
yeah, I know, you're a coomer. I hope your story at least has a few themes somewhat grounded in reality

>>18306403
I'm glad to hear that anon, keep it up! :)

I'm too fragile. It sucks. Now all the confidence I was building up is gone again

“Speak,” said the Captain, using his large fingers to pinch the sleep out of his eyes.

“I believe that man who arrived today is a fugitive,” said the sentry.

“I have no doubt he is,” said the Captain.

“Forgive me, sir. But I don’t understand why they aren’t in a jail cell right now.”

The Captain sat forward and sighed with great fatigue.

“It is quite likely the only reason that man and woman helped Pevon was so they could use that goodwill to buy their way up the mountain. But regardless of their intent they did save his life.”

“But if they’re criminals, sir. If we, the law, are too lenient, aren’t we giving such transgressions too much free reign?”

The Captain smiled, resting his fat cheek on his closed left fist.

“‘Why must we be lenient’? Joab, how many of our brothers have died in service to the Baseline?”

“Too many to count, sir.”

The Captain sat back and opened a drawer in his desk, revealing several thick folders.

“Although I haven’t put it to memory I know that if I wished to, I could find out how many men have died under my command these last ten years. If you’ll forgive me for belabouring the point, Joab; the Baseline is more than just the stone the wall is made of; it is the flesh and blood and bone of the men who keep it. Every inch of the Baseline Wall; First and Second, is stained with the blood of enlisted men who will not grow old. Would I be a Captain worthy of my station if I did not cherish each and every life under my command? That man and woman, fugitives or not, honoured the unwritten oaths of brotherhood between all men; and for that we must honour them in turn; we will not shirk our duties, but nor will we disgrace ourselves by treating them harshly.”

The Captain fell silent. Joab felt compelled to speak, his spirit roused by the Captain’s words.

“Yes, sir. I understand now, sir. Thank you.”

>>18306751
if you find a fix for this let me know anon. Someone criticized my story the other day and although they were totally correct and I agreed with their criticism, it was so hard to read.

>>18306751
I felt like this the other day. I had a good long sleep then got back to writing.

>>18306751
take a walk.

Sometimes I wish more men in the english speaking world read compared to women. I don't want to have to pander to women in my writing.

>>18302023
Well, thanks for clicking on the link. Or the image, if you didn't get far enough to the link.

>>18306751
>rarely get (you)'s
>it's usually says that it's fine
at least you get advice

I need some help with grammar, and connecting speech and narration properly. If I include narration after speech, should the narration be on the same line as the speech or should it start a new line? For example, which of these would be correct?
>"Yes?" Almost suddenly, it was like the world started to blur
Or
>"Yes?"
>Almost suddenly, it was like the world started to blur

>>18306813
Since most agents are women, you still have to pander to them. And if you're self-publishing, you can pander to some sausage fest niche anyway.

>>18307040
I like the second more, unless you're adding more dialogue to the first. But the phrasing sounds fucked up. What does "almost suddenly" really tell us? Either go with suddenly, skip it altogether or find something more descriptive.

>>18307045
why are most agents women? are most authors women?

>>18307054
Good feedback, thank you anon.

>>18307074
Because women tend to have shitty, underpaid jobs they can do part-time since they are usually forced to also do the household chores.

noob here, all opinions, feedback and comments welcome, what do you think of this little story i wrote:

"Command, be advised, we're seeing activity at the AX-2300 launchers so, uhh, we're going to need to speed up the timeline on this operation if we can."

"Skyline 7, this is Command. Roger that. Just to confirm, you are not clear to fire until Bravo team has reached the perimeter."

"We're moving as fast as we can!" Johnson thought to himself.

Hopping over branches and ducking under low hanging trees, Johnson and Smith shoved their way through the brush as they heard the sounds of vegetation breaking and snapping behind them.

"DISTANCE TO THE PERIMETER WALL?" Johnson yelled as they ran.

"About 50 meters, sir!" replied Smith.

"Command, this is Bravo 6, we're in position at the southern tree-line." Johnson barked over the radio, still catching his breath.

"Skyline 7 you are cleared to engage. Fire at will." Johnson looked up at the sky in anticipation, but saw nothing but the deep black empty night sky.

Suddenly 2 large munitions pounded the perimeter wall with a deafening boom, ejecting thick plumes of dirt and debris hundreds of feet into the air. The thunderous clap from the explosion hit his chest with a heavy thump, knocking the air out of his lungs. Johnson's heart was pounding and his ears rang as he felt the heat on his face from the rising fireball. Leaves and branches fell from above as the trees swayed and the explosion echoed over the hills in the distance.

"Skyline 7 we're showing effective hits on your first 2 targets." crackled the radio.

A plume of flares erupted high in the sky as a missile screeched up from within the compound, leaving a brilliant white trail of smoke behind it. With a loud hiss, 2 more missiles followed suit. Johnson watched with concern as the missiles reached the flares and exploded with silent white flashes.

Smith spoke first: "Command, this is Bravo team. We're moving into the compound now."

Johnson watched Smith as he peered carefully beyond the tree-line at the carnage. The perimeter wall was severely damaged with large parts of the structure crumpled inward as small fires burned sporadically. Smith looked back at Johnson and nodded. They proceeded making their way to the hole in the wall.

The air was thick with smoke and dust.

"What kind of facility did they say this was?" Johnson asked.

"It's a research lab" Smith replied.

Smith moved cautiously over the rubble, while Johnson peaked beyond the hole into the facility.

"See anything?"

"No, it's too dark." Johnson replied with a shaky whisper. "We need night vision."

"Bravo 6, going dark." said Johnson as the pair lowered their night-vision goggles, making a high pitched charging sound as they activated.

"Section C-15," said Smith, checking his map. "This way."

>>18307098
I think you tried to fit too much into your sentences.

>>18306764
writing noob here, this is my 2 cents:
>The Captain smiled, resting his fat cheek on his closed left fist.

This sounds weird, just say "on his fist". Fists are always closed.

>>18307151
Can you elaborate?

>>18307155
Good point.

>>18303757
It starts out as a slow burner and he takes a little to find his style, but it gets better as you go along. Of course, it's always free to read, so at most you just lose a few hours if it's not to your liking.

>>18307098
>so, uhh, we're going to need to speed up the timeline on this operation if we can
Kek. Actually made me want to give it a chance.
>shoved their way through the brush as they heard the sounds of vegetation breaking and snapping behind them
Nice try to include environmental and sensory detail but sub-par execution. I'm an ESLfag, so someone correct me if I'm wrong but the "as they heard" doesn't quite work with the stuff, since it implies they just heard the noises. Also you'd generally want to avoid filtering with heard/saw/felt and directly address the thing going on. Maybe writing a new sentence like "Sound of vegetation breaking and snapping followed them." And then ideally, specify the vegetation if the characters could reasonably known the name of some of the stuff.
>Johnson yelled as they ran.
Kinda given with the caps. You have to use the shitty dialogue tags because you didn't differentiate the speakers. Try to do that and it won't be necessary to add who spoke as often.
>large munitions pounded the perimeter wall
Sounds kinda comical. And afterwards you might want to play around with sentence lengths for a better rhythm.
>With a loud hiss, 2 more missiles followed suit
You generally want to write out numbers in the prose. (Probably better to do it in dialogue too)
>at the carnage.
Maybe I missed something but what carnage? There was a lot shit about walls and flares, nothing about corpses.
>"We need night vision."
I don't see a soldier saying something so obvious. The next line does the job.

Just the stuff I noticed while skimming. The big picture doesn't feel too interesting for muh tastes. I don't get a feel for the characters nor what their goals are nor why it should concern me.

>>18307218
imagine an ESL having greater english writing sensibilities than you

>>18307171
Hopping over branches and ducking under low hanging trees
Johnson and Smith shoved their way through the brush
they heard the sounds of vegetation breaking and snapping behind them.

2 large munitions pounded the perimeter wall
a deafening boom,
thick plumes of dirt and debris hundreds of feet into the air.

The perimeter wall was severely damaged
large parts of the structure crumpled inward
small fires burned sporadically.

said Johnson
the pair lowered their night-vision
goggles making a high pitched charging sound as they activated.

Describe your scenes.

>>18300451
R8 my first description of a person (beautiful woman.)

Her hair glittered like moonlit gold. Wrapped in a flowing green dress, her supple body flowed: gentle but pronounced curves tided from side to side with each click of her heels. Her wide hips, fixed on her petite waist, tolled in a perfect rhythm. They rang in silence, in song that was seen, not heard.

Her face, from the petals of her pink lips to the dawn in her bright blue eyes, was immaculate. But most of all, there was her mystic allure. An aura, unique to her charm. The bright smile, the kind eyes, and the graceful moves only enhanced what could only be felt.

Unedited, unfortunately. First time, please be gentle. Not very proud of the last two lines, I think I stretched it too much. Tell me what you like and what you hate, how you'd improve it, what I should study. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

>>18307218
>avoid filtering with heard/saw/felt and directly address the thing going on. Maybe writing a new sentence like "Sound of vegetation breaking and snapping followed them."

Oh I like that. Yeah that sounds better. It's more direct. "heard" is just a middle man that places distance between the reader and the events taking place.

>play around with sentence lengths for a better rhythm.

Rhythm. Right. With that section, I had like 8 things that I wanted to mention. The dirt flung into the air. The leaves falling. The echo over the hills. The shockwave thumping his chest. The heat on his face. His ears ringing. Heart racing.

How do you get around just simply listing off a bunch of details about the scene? There's a lot going on. How do you cover all the information without ruining the flow and rhythm?

>I don't get a feel for the characters nor what their goals are nor why it should concern me.

Any suggestions to make the reader care more about the characters in this scene?

>>18307270
>The dirt flung into the air. The leaves falling. The echo over the hills. The shockwave thumping his chest. The heat on his face. His ears ringing. Heart racing.
A bit long but this kind of break between longer paragraphs is nice
Use paragraphs

>>18307270
>How do you cover all the information without ruining the flow and rhythm?
Tbqh, I kinda like the bare-bones approach of almost just listing the stuff, and since it happens in short sentences, it reads like a lot of shit is going on, even a bit overwhelming, which transports the feelz of the character in the situation. Or you could mix in some of the short sentences like
>The dirt flung into the air. The leaves falling. The echo over the hills.
But go more in detail/lenght about how the shockwave and heat affects the character. Getting the rhythm and pacing of the scene right can be a total bitch with too many ways to do it right and as many to fuck it up. Just gotta experiment until you find what works best for your work.
>Any suggestions to make the reader care more about the characters in this scene?
Now that's a hardmode question. Maybe humor (but risky if it falls flat or ruins the atmosphere), maybe worries about another character/consequence of the mission failing, maybe you manage a top tier description of the feelz, so the reader goes "Aww shit, poor guy."

I write based and redpilled books, but finding a community that is based and redpilled where I can talk about my books or anything I care about is exceedingly difficult. Does anyone else have this problem?
I suspect by now most of the really based places are underground, which means my cat social mentality works against me as I don't do the whole nepotism thing.

>>18307264
its a style that makes me want to stop reading

>>18305302
Two icicles had formed in Melchior's nasal canal like the yellow tusks of a snoring walrus.

>>18301961
Male power fantasy is fighting for causes greater than yourself.
Female power fantasy is being liked for no real reason.
One of these interests females only, one interests everyone.
Also, don\'t target the West if your work is even slightly redpilled.

>>18307347
>I write based and redpilled books
So misogynism and nazis? I think there are plenty of forums for that.

>>18307506
Are there really though? Doubt these people like to write anything longer than YT comments, aside of a few shizos and pua fags who work solo.

>>18307524
Don't know where you'd get such an impression. These types love nothing more than talking about their "ideologies" and like-minded company. You just have to know where to look.

>https://pastebin.com/Fc3xSqNd
~1800 word short story I just finished editing. If anyone has any input I'd be glad to hear it, even if it's only bullying.

>>18307506
Cute. Nice troll post by the way.

>>18307577
>even if it's only bullying
Feels like you just read a bunch of Borges stories and decided 'I'm gonna write one too'

>>18307645
Was it the wall-breaking section near the middle?

>>18307657
It's the bit about Finnegan's Wake combined with the general introspective feeling. desu it's actually pretty good

>>18307577.
HIGH IQ. YOU ARE A GENIUS.

>>18305775
APA is the best formatting style.
Fight me loser.

>>18307577

>>18307577

Noob writer here, I skimmed about the first 25% of it. It seems like it's good writing. But I don't remember at all what I read or what the story was about. So it can't be that good. I guess it's not gripping and engaging enough. There's lots of big words, so that's cool. But you use the word "neon" too much.

Again, I'm a noob and I don't know what I'm talking about. But, it seems like you're trying to describe a beautiful scene with visual description. But beauty is more an emotion than a visual. So maybe you should describe the way the scene feels instead of how it looks.

I feel like this paragraph is a bit rough from a purely structural viewpoint. Thoughts?

>As history would have it, Sophie Adams ended up as the fourth author of a study discussing the signal, published in haste after a few months of coffee-fueled research. She was responsible for finding that, going by the blue shift of the signal, its source had to be moving at around 15 km/s. This study, which became known to the world as Rosenbaum et al. or the Parkes Paper, also found that the signal was frequency modulated, and that it repeated at a constant interval which was determined to be a base-twelve multiple of the Planck Time Unit. Public reaction was swift and intense: So-called “science popularizers” discussed it on TV, experts wrote Op-eds only to get counter-OP-edded by other experts. Everyone was looking to etch their name into the discovery, driven more by pure jealousy than scientific rigor. Sales of UFO-related merchandise quintupled. Close Encounters of the Third Kind returned to cinemas, and self-titled UFOlogists found themselves thrust into the spotlight of public attention.

But you didn’t have to cuckkkkk me offffff.
No, you didn’t have to queannnn soo lowwww.

>>18307977
too many comas

>>18307577
>instantiation of its shifting dispositions
I challenge you to go and read this line out loud in front of a mirror and try not to crack up

>>18308020
Yeah, the pairing of the two 'tions is something that bothered me too in the back of my mind. Might be I could clean that up a bit and rephrase. Good catch.

>>18307966
Thanks for your input. I'm not a very overtly emotional person and I imagine that comes out in my writing. >>18307965
Yeah yeah.
>>18307708
This one actually hurt a little. Well done.
>>18307684
Thanks! That's just about the highest praise you can hope for.

>>18304110
Yeah. Like my girlfriend said: at least you know what happened even if it’s omitted. It helps if you’re into show, don’t tell.

>>18307577

>Sea smells drift inland still
The wording confused me. Maybe write "sea's smell", or "scent of the sea".
>flowing round concrete spires stuck like crucifixes into the innocent earth.
How is something flowing while also being stuck? Contradictory imagery.
>The corrupting cores of things only borrowed cry out their smattering protests in heel, brogue, and merriment.
Corrupting, how? How do you protest while in merriment? What are you actually trying to say by this? That's pretty much what I think at the end of every line. Sorry, can't go on. It makes no sense to me.

>>18308098
bro I hate to simp for a /wg/ anon but your reading comp is actually trash
all of those read fine, the third a tad indulgent

>>18306764
>large fingers
would change
also >>18307155
I almost didn't mention it but yeah it does sound strange.

>>18308098
Corrupting in the sense that we are all in the process of dying. The things only borrowed are our bodies, composed of matter we only "borrow" for a time, and relinquish when we die. Obviously, this only loosely follows the specifics of biology, since our bodies are in a constant state of cellular death and replacement, but cut me a little slack on that part please. Joy and emotion and all those purely human things are, in my narrator's eyes, protests against death. The story is his rejection of those lies and his march to death. I really hate making things explicit like this, but you asked.

Hello, I am the French anon writing a novel, here is my last bit, what do you guys think about it?
Sorry I don't translate because it's too time consuming, and when I translate my text it usually isn't so great.

Je l'a donnerai aux nécessiteux en son nom, ensuite j'oublierai son existence. Et ça n'est pas là une bonté que j'exerce, car si je n'en ai pas mérité la possession par la peine, alors la joie d'en répandre les fruits n'est point non plus mienne.
Je n'ai même pas su le voir malade sans exprimer de dégoût, comme s'il revenait à moi de souffrir de son affliction. je n'ai pas eu la grandeur d'apaiser sa souffrance, de le traiter en vivant quand lui meme ne croyait plus intéresser que la mort.
Tout ce que j'ai vu en lui était dégoût, simple peur orgueilleuse de finir moi aussi ainsi, comme si la vieillesse était contagieuse. J'aurais dû l'étreindre, chanter son teint blafard, respirer ses miasmes.
au lieu de ca je me suis tenu loin, je l'ai insulté, et je lui ai rappelé que si un homme n'a pas la chance de mourrir bien accompagné, alors il meurt seul.
Après lui avoir volé l'espoir, devrais-je maintenant lui voler la grâce du sacrifice ?

et sur ces mots, il se tut.
mais pas pour toujours, rassurez vous, juste pour cette fois-ci, car je dois vous avouer quelque chose, je le dis maintenant, j'aurai pu le dire avant, ou bien plus tard, peu importe. mais voilà que ca me vient maintenant, à la fin de ce monologue.

Philippe, j'en suis convaincu, sera le dernier des hommes à parler.
Il parlera et alors tous se tairont.
Je ne sais pas s'il sera écouté, avant le grand silence.
en toute certitude, ce ne seront pas ses mots, par quelconque valeur intrinsèque, qui seront la source du repos éternel qui nous attends.
Les hommes auront perdu la parole, mais aussi tout souvenir d'un tel don, comme devenus aveugles et amnésiques tous au même instant. Alors nous ramperons, et nous serons rappelés à notre bestialité.

Ceci étant dit, Pourquoi lui et pas un autre ? me dirais vous. Et bien pourquoi pas ? C'est tout comme la tombola, ce doit bien arriver à quelqu'un, et cette fois, ca sera lui. Peut-être aussi parce qu'il est libre, en tous cas, moins enchaîné que les autres. Ou peut-être pas, qui peut le savoir ?
Si je devais sonder ce dernier baragouinage, je présumerai qu'il dira probablement une ânerie.
Et par là je n'entends pas qu'il puisse être idiot, bien qu'il le soit probablement, mais voyons donc que meme le plus sage des hommes passe son temps sur terre à énoncer des bagatelles, et que si l'une de ses phrases devait aléatoirement clore son oeuvre, ca serait probablement une ânerie.
"Ou ai-je rangé la confiture", "il pleut jeudi ? Je vais peut-être reporter mon cours d'équitation".
Les derniers mots des hommes seront une ânerie, et n'est-ce pas là la plus grande justice ?
Quelle farce nous efforçons nous à maintenir de notre temps.

>>18308170
>cont

Tout ce qui reste est sublime, comme la femme qui s'apprête ou l'homme qui se met en uniforme pour immortaliser son portait.
Horace lui meme fustigeait la jeunesse, comme chaque vieux sénile lorsqu'il devient encore un peu plus vieux et sénile.
Et comment pourrait il en être autrement, si tout ce qui reste d'une époque révolue est sublime ?
Cette constatation pourrait paraître sage ou réfléchie, mais il n'en est rien, comme beaucoup d'abstractions pseudo-intellectuelles de notre âge, ce qui semble relativement logique est réponse toute faite.
Il n'en est rien, disais-je, car cette idiotie très précise nous cache un délitement bien réel, qui ne s'observe pas dans cette génération uniquement, mais qui s'accélère et progresse depuis des siècles,
celui de l'âme humaine elle même. toutes les relativisations que je vous apporte n'y changeront rien.
Mais revenons en au fait.
Il clôturera donc l'oeuvre et l'age des hommes, je ne puis vous dire pourquoi, mais restez en convaincus, car c'est tout simplement ainsi.
Et comme la majorité de ce qui périclite, l'âge des hommes semblera par ce silence tomber d'un coup sec dans une nuit aussi noire qu'imprévue.
Alors qu'il ne sera, mes amis, que le râle de clôture d'une longue agonie silencieuse.

>>18306373
It gives a good idea of how your work will be written but doesn't give a particular good feel for the actual plot yet. Maybe that's just because you're missing the third paragraph? I hate to recommend it but the PubTips subreddit is better for this kind of feedback than /wg/. Just take all their lib reddit shit with a pinch of salt - a lot of the people there know the industry well enough at least.

>>18300451
Yes. I finally, finished chapter one.
Now I don't know how to continue on to chapter 2.

>>18306604
>highest levels of domestic violence
these stats are often a bit disingenuous as they usually include things like "have you ever been abused by anyone" which would include previous abuse at the hands of men. I think it's actually bi women that are abused the most

>>18308098
>describing 2 different things in contrast
>contradictory! This is bad!
YWNBAW
*you will never be a writer*

>>18307045
Most agents are women because most readers are women. If more men read then there would be more male agents in the world.

>>18300688
>Hress Dunter
I hate you

>>18307577
It seems like you use a thesaurus too much maybe.

>>18308220
Never picked one up in my life.

>>18307577
good but excessively indulgent
>Before I go much further...
this passage made me want to drop. this victorian scholar aesthetic shit is detractive to your writing and puts your prose in a self impressive light
all together it reads in such a disjointed manner that I kind of hated the experience of reading it. do you feel that your forcing this style out of you? maybe I'm missing something but the sudden and jarring jilts in style don't sell to me
the language feels a bit forced as well. I like some of it, I dislike others. intentions aside, it just doesn't feel cohesive
hope you post more, it'd be refreshing to read something with even the slightest bit of ambition on here from time to time

>>18305988
One time I made up a monster called the blue man, and it was this big shaggy thing that, when you were laying in bed with your eyes closed, but wasn't asleep yet, he'd appear next to your bed and bend down over you and stare you right in your face. He doesn't make a sound, or breathe or anything, and the only thing he does is make you feel like you're being watched (obviously). If you kept your eyes closed, you'd be fine, but if you opened your eyes he'd rip you apart.

Anyway, I ended up scaring the shit out of myself, because I couldn't stop thinking about this goddamn sasquatch two inches from my face staring at me unblinking, waiting to rip me to pieces. It sucked. But I got over that easier than I got over the bat demons.

>>18308214
Made me think of this meme. I'm a bit too needy to pretend I don't care about my detractors though.

>>18308244
you'd be harder to dislike if you didn't shill so bad
burger punk anon strikes a better balance
I feel like I see your shit every thread

>>18306019
>being an obnoxious tradcath on 4chan
>a cute blonde Polish mommy gf

>>18308170
Translated the first paragraph, is this a good translation?

I'll give it to the needy in his name, then I'll forget about it. And that's not a kindness I'm showing, because if I don't have the right to its possession through work, then the joy of giving its fruits is not mine, either.
I didn't even know he was sick without exuding disgust, as if I had to suffer from his illness. I didn't have the greatness to soothe his suffering, to treat him as a living person when he didn't even think he interested anyone but death.
All I saw in him was disgust, simple, proud, fear of ending up like that too, as if old age were contagious. I should have embraced him, sung of his pallor, breathed his stench.
Instead I held back, I insulted him, and I reminded him that if a man doesn't have the luck to die well attended, then he dies alone.
After stealing from him hope, should I now steal from him the grace of sacrifice?

>>18306019
>an obnoxious tradcath on 4chan
>a cute blonde Polish mommy gf

>>18308226
So I read on a lot more and eventually started to enjoy it. It's just that the first two or three paragraphs really made me want to hate it. The description seemed needlessly vague. I mentioned the thesaurus because of sentences like this
>Another arrests only shortly her onwarding towards something
Once things started happening, when it became obvious the narrator was homeless, when he got a beating, I started to understand the surrealism. But I maintain that the first few paragraphs are a bit excessive and off-putting.

>>18308252
Yes, it's a good translation, thank you Anon

I guess I (>>18308261) preferred the self-indulgent intellectual aesthetic part highlighted by anon (>>18308231). He makes a good point, perhaps the styles were a bit disjointed.

>>18308261

>>18300480
Speaking of graphic novels how much would it cost to hire a professional artist to draw my idea(s) for me if I had everything written out/storyboarded.

>>18308311
>isn't an artist but wants to use drawn mediums
>i'll just have someone else do the skilled labor!
why is this such a common conclusion
you better be absolutely fucking loaded
that or just learn to draw
>just learn
i'm sure you're young enough, just don't be a procrastinating coward

>>18308319
I have money. I'd rather bring talent together than learn everything myself.

I finally worked up the motivation to start writing at least semi consistently. My writing is absolutely terrible and I will probably scrap the story I am working on, but it nevertheless feels good to start practicing. Hopefully one day I can create something worthwhile

>>18308329
your attitude leads me to believe that you fancy yourself a creative but don't have the basic discipline to learn a skill and so have turned to writing because it's easy
writing isn't as easy as you think

>>18308231
>>18308261
>>18308284
Thank you both. I don't have time right now to fully acknowledge the points you're raising, but I want to say that you are acknowledged and have given me a lot of good, specific critique going forward into my next (and hopefully last) editing run.

>>18308380
you're clearly either well read or well practiced
give it another pass but unless you intend to do something with this piece, I'd suggest just shelfing it for your future self to enjoy looking back on
it has some pretty good moments but without some heavy line editing I doubt many people other than you would appreciate it as a whole
gl anon

>>18308368
No creative skill I've tackled has been easy, but I'm already trying to learn too many things, and drawing takes a lifetime to get good at.

Right hand index finger tickles and is a little swollen. I might've been writing too much. Hope I won't wind up with carpal tunnel or some shit fffuuuuuuuck

>>18308541
what the fuck
don't tense up so bad. use a computer if you don't know how to handle a pencil

>>18300451
The Baitman

I pierced it bloated on my hook, cast it over the marram-mantled boards. Then like a good baitman I stood and patiently waited, wafts of auto update in my hair, the tick in the box. After a minute, a trembling in the grass as of some rapidly advancing army. The game had begun.

Their replies terrified me as they gathered on a piney rise. I fought to keep the lure in my grasp—and from theirs. And though they stumbled, and they fell, put up the good fight, the thing wriggled hideously upon the white sand, slipperier than the slipperiest eel.

So, up on the grey dunes and down to the yellows, then further onward to the foredunes I led them, reeling, always reeling. They fell in slacks and tripped on the Anime-Manga tufts, the mass of them roiling like a Nyan Cat. Their starving eyes and mouths desiring of what they’d seen, they’d reply until they couldn’t. If they found my address, they’d send Domino's until their McBitcoins got seized by China.

But I never let them find me, not once, never.

Before the sea the writing general dunes, after the writing general dunes, a post what's on your mind. That was where I stood, on the lip above, coil tightening. In a moment, if I wasn’t careful, they’d be on top of me. But I’d experience this time.

Calmly I walked down to the beach’s level sands. As my catch gathered behind me, ravenous and vital, I threw rod and line and lure to the sea. Then I unfolded my chair, sat in it, amused by their idiot efforts. They couldn’t scramble fast enough. A group of them cried to it, called it their baby and their beloved, but those voices quickly died.

I might’ve taken them to a sea cliff, but I preferred to watch them drown.

4chan Trollz are excellent bait for (you)s.

>>18307386
Can you at least tell me why? I'm not good at or used to descriptive writing.

>>18309044
These things are hard to really explain. A lot of people will try, but there's no fundamental, concrete truth any of it rests on. I personally spend a lot of time trying to express in logical terms my aesthetic taste and it's still never easy. >>18307264
In short, it's just too much. Beyond this being the kind of thing you will see out of pretty much every novice writer at some point or another, you just spend entirely too much time on it. The word I use often is "enumeration" for things like this. It's an ugly, mechanical word that evokes lines of machines in a factory, each dutifully fulfilling their purpose; nothing more, nothing less. This is the word I would apply to your description as well: enumeration. Each word an individual machine on an assembly line preforming the action for which it was designed outputting a product at the end. You are listing the traits of a woman, you aren't bringing her to life. She doesn't live or breathe, she just exists as this aggregate of components fitting together bound by flowery language.

That's the best I've got.

>>18300451
What are your thoughts on the semicolon in prose? Do you use it, or do you reject it?

>>18309125
I use it when it fits. I don't have the doctrinal, regurgitate hate for it that a lot of people do. Sometimes it enables a sentence to flow a little better. When it does, instead of rewriting a sentence to AVOID AVOID AVOID AT ALL COSTS the semicolon, I just use a semicolon. Sometimes I'll write entire paragraphs full of them because fuck the police.

>>18309125
It exists for a reason so there's no valid reason not to use it where appropriate.

>>18309087
That actually makes a surprising amount of sense. Thanks anon.

Would you mind reviewing a separate, entirely new description if I can get it done before the end of this thread? Also, I'm starting to think descriptions alone cannot sustain an excerpt, so I'll try to add a little more to it.

>>18309125
It's basically like a gun. It can be effective when used right, but just having it doesn't mean you should shoot every pedestrian you see.

>>18309125
I mostly use the semicolon and the em dash both to invoke pauses in dialogue and prose rather than use commas.

>>18305296
This is from some furry porn that I dropped for other projects, you might get some ideas. It's more exposition than description though.

>Sonnenland was a cold land, and it bred cold people. The wind, the snow, the featureless miles of frozen ocean wreathing the true land's coast - they were the white bones of the kingdom, upon which every other edifice had been constructed. Ice was at the heart. Of those who lived there, ice ran in their veins.

>Or so they said.

>For generations untold, the arctic foxes and polar bears of the world's most northern kingdom had hewn their lives out of fish-stuffed seas. But even those hardy breeds were not comfortable in their unforgiving home. When scouring summer gales blew in from the seas, when the sea-ice had melted and the waves were ten feet tall and the waters open only to the desperate - or in the depths of their winter burrows, with blizzards raging overhead, when even good steel tools could shatter and every quiet sound lingered in the frigid air like a ringing bell, their survival hung by a gut-string thread.

>Peter wiped the ice from his nostrils.

>Coming here had been a mistake.

As far as I can remember, the story was about the gay prince of a sexually repressive but politically enlightened southern kingdom finding freedom and (forbidden) love amongst the northern royalty. The southerners are vaguely Prussian and the northerners are vaguely Finno-Swedish (but even further North).

>>18309345
Explain a little more, please.

David awakes suddenly in his tent. He notices that his heart-rate is abnormally high, for some reason. Slightly disoriented, it takes a few seconds for him to rub his eyes and remember where he is. David has an uneasy feeling in his gut that something is wrong, but he doesn't know what. An abnormal sense of danger fills the air. Thankfully, the snoring from the other tent gives him a bit of relief. David was always overly paranoid while camping and had a hard time getting much sleep.

The the quiet crackling fire also calms David. He's reminded that a few hours ago he was casually sitting and talking with Sam. In spite of this, David still has a persistent sense that something is off.

Then he sees it. There is a shadow on the wall of his tent.

David's eyes widen and his whole body stiffens with fear. "What the fuck is that?" "Is there someone outside?" David remains absolutely still, listening intently for any movement. There is none. The shadow remains motionless. David tries to control his breath so as to be totally silent and avoid detection. He feels the need for air but refuses to allow himself to breath in too quickly.

David contemplates jumping out of the tent, but he is too afraid to move. He simply remains frozen in tension as the seconds drag on.

David double checks his memory. "Is that just a tree?" he tries to think back to earlier when he was outside. He can't conjure the view of his tent from the camp fire. But then he remembers pitching the tent, and there were definitely NO trees beside it.

David's sense of panic doubles as he makes the realization. His heart thumps heavily in his chest, threatening to expose him by being too loud. His body is filled with adrenaline and his forehead begins to shine with sweat. David gulps in anticipation of what is about to happen to him.

"Could it just be an animal? A bear maybe?" "No, it can't be. An animal would move around and investigate the camp site." "It must be some deranged psychopath planning to kill us!"

David's eyes remain locked on the shadow, his eyebrows scrunched inquisitively. Sam continues to snore in the other tent. If only Sam knew what grave danger they were currently in. Any moment now, the killer will make his move and David will have to try his best to survive.

David's mind races, he can hardly even think straight. "What should I do? Should I yell at the intruder and tell him to get lost? That will also wake up Sam and I can-"

Suddenly, the shadow moves.

Startled, David covers his mouth with his hand. The wall of David's tent is now completely free of any shadows. He listens intently and hears heavy, weighted footsteps moving away from the camp.

>>18309622

David quietly unzips the front of his tent and peeks out the window hole.

"Oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck" he thinks to himself, afraid of what he might see. His eyes search the tree-line to find the culprit. In the dim light, David spots the dark figure of a large man disappearing into the trees. But David notices that the man is unsettlingly tall. Perhaps 9 feet, he estimates.

David unzips his tent and rushes over to Sams. He fumbles with the zipper in a panic, every second spent outside the tent makes him feel exposed. Finally he gets into Sams tent and shakes him urgently.

"Sam! Wake up. Sam. SAM. WAKE UP!" he whisper yells at Sam.

"Huh? What do you want man?" Sam asks groggily

"Someone's here!"

"What do you mean someone's here?"

"SHHHH! Don't be too loud! Someone is snooping around our campsite! I saw them!"

"What the fuck are you talking about? We're in the middle of nowhere."

"Sam. Listen to me. I swear to God. There's someone outside. Where's the gun?"

"I have it. It's in my backpack." Sam reaches over to his backpack and pulls out a handgun.

>>18300451
When is it too late to start writing? I'm 24 and I never wrote anything good in my life.

>>18309653
You can only truly become a writer after 25 when your brain is fully matured. Anything before that is just fooling around

>>18309622
>Then he sees it. There is a shadow on the wall of his tent.
We have no idea how many campers are travelling with David. Perhaps you should make it clearer that the shadow could not belong to one of his camping partners.

>David gulps in anticipation of what is about to happen to him.
Yes, yes.
>"Could it just be an animal? A bear maybe?"
Get to it already: the moment is now.
>"No, it can't be. An animal would move around and investigate the camp site." David's eyes remain locked on the shadow, his eyebrows scrunched inquisitively.
Jesus Christ...

The beginning part up to the shadow is good. Then it gets boring. Nothing of interest happens. At the end it gets a bit better again. I like the idea of two campers clashing with a mysterious giant. I assume it's Bigfoot, which isless exciting than a giant human (like the giant from Gerald's Game).

>>18309590
Something like
>Do you think I want to just sit around all day? Do you think I—no, you know what this is? God damn discrimination, that's what!
>I don't know what you mean, sir; perhaps you might draw us a picture?
>He's not making sense—I don't know what to do with him.

>>18309653
That's when I started writing my fanfics and a couple of years later, after finishing several novellas, I started originals.

>>18309629
>David quietly unzips the front of his
missed opportunity

>>18309622
You don't need to say "David" so often when he's the only character doing anything. You can just say "he" and we'll know who you're talking about.

>>18308590
gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

>>18308541
Get a rolled up hand towel or some other kind of padding to support your wrist while you write.

If people have been posting smut, mind if I drop mine for critique?

https://pastebin.com/eguE0PXk

How do you decide whether you're juggling too many plot points?

>>18310266
I like to start small and simple, and only bring in more plot threads when absolutely necessary. A streamlined story done well is better than a complicated mess any day.

>>18310266
when they become uninteresting to write..

>>18310191
append every instance of the word football with 'american'

>>18310335
noted.

>>18309964
>You don't need to say "David" so often when he's the only character doing nothing.

>>18300451
I hope it is progress but who the fuck knows. I've started over, keeping the information I had written. But I changed protag. The other story wasn't really flowing out of me. But this seems to be going better. The story I want to tell. Which I hear, is what I should aim for.

>>18310266
When juggling too many plot points

>>18309622
>>18309629
Use pastebin next time.

>>18310191
>I want to have your football babies

>>18310191
I read Tumblr porn stories that are better.

>>18308170
>>18308178
Write it in English next time.

>>18307577
yup, this is good. Not my cup o tea but it's good. I didn't like that you used the words neon backdrop too close to eachother in the beginning. Preferrably it should be there only once and my 2 cents say it's better used as a backdrop to the fist rather than in the beginning, since the description in the beginning is already... vivid . But That's just my take.

I'd say this is the kind of writing that people who like to write write. Me? I'm just a pleb trying to get stories across. To each their own i guess. Good work!

>>18300541
Can’t you change the name of your character? It’s sounds so unbelievably unrealistic.

>>18310755
It's a traditional Pashtun name...

>>18308191
Thanks, anon, and yeah the idea was to hint the actual plot in the last paragraph (from what I got, the query only needs to give a feel for the first act) but I still can't quite decide how to word the shit in the 50ish words left.

And yeah, asking on /wg/ is pretty much a shot in the dark but needing an account for leddit or querytracker forums feels like such an extra mental hurdle.

>>18310765
It's garbage. Change it.

Would appreciate any thoughts/feedback.

It was freezing. He should have stopped earlier. Should have gone with them boys. It was his own stupid pride that kept him alone for so long. They’d laughed at him, called him old man. Good natured. But still, he set out the next morning before any of them could wake.
Should have slowed down maybe. Another dog chewed through the rope and bolted off through the trees. Won’t be seeing him again. The only dogs left to him were the ones too tired to even try.
He closed his eyes. When they opened again the sun had fallen behind the trees and he was covered in a layer of snow. His leg throbbed.
“Hey!” He called to the dogs. Nothing “Hey!” Shouted this time. He threw his head back and screamed. As loud as he could but not as loud as he’d expected. A dog stirred in the snow, lifting its head to sniff around at his feet.
“Yeah, you. Come on up here.”
The dog laid back down.
“Come on you stupid mutt.”
Nothing. Should have gone somewhere else for his dogs. Spent a little more money. He thought he could make his way through Canada for cheap and earn his fortune at the end. Stupid. Molly had said he was stupid, tried to tell him. But he thought he knew better.
He tried to sit up. The strain in his leg was unbearable. Reached down with his hands to try and pull his leg free. Even worse. Dropped back to the snow, panting, his hands covered in blood. Screamed again, wordless. A little louder this time. He hoped that was a good sign.
“Come here girl.” He waved his hand at the dog, flicking blood soaked snow in her direction. She finally lifted her head. “That’s right. Just a little more.”
She sniffed her way up his body, poking her nose at the wound on his leg. He tried his best not to let the pain show. Didn’t want to scare her off now. His fingers scraped at the fur on her head, grasping out.
“Come on girl. Come on.” Just a few more steps.
His hand made contact with her collar. He grabbed, held on for dear life, pulling her in. Now what?

>>18300480
I was trying to hack it at a GN script for eons before deciding to attempt a switch to prose. I think that you need to overhaul this into a """script format""" before you can truly start thinking about what it would look like on the page, unless you have a strong idea of what it will look like when you draw it yourself.

Where are the panel breaks? Why isn't the dialogue tagged and offset? Is this a SCRIPT or a NOVEL? I hope that this isn't too harsh, but to be blunt, I think Neal Stephenson said of Snow Crash and Nisio Isin said of his whole career something to the effect of "I wish I could draw a comic book, so I'm just writing out the comic I see in my head."

>>18308368
This is amazing advice for all of us who think of ourselves as being amazing Idea Guys. I love comics, I love movies, I love video games -- but I don't know fucking shit about art or cinematography or programming. I actually DO know dick about writing, but even so it is foolish to believe that my first amateur work will be picked up as the next Witcher or whatever and skyrocket in multimedia popularity.

>>18310863
What's wrong with it?

>>18310863
Firoz Feroz is better and more realistic than Humbert Humbert

>>18300480
>>18310910
I'm a fucking speedreader and saw that you only used words like "guide" and "outline" so I'll assume you know what you're talking about when it comes to thumbnailing and drawing it.

Regardless, I am interested in the tension between creative overreach (I'm going to write JUST THE SCRIPT to the next One Piece!) and "settling" for writing a novel because you'd really rather be making MMORPG content or whatever. I still don't understand litRPG.

>>18310916
That's because Humbert Humbert is a pseudonym, you idiot.

>>18310910
>This is amazing advice for all of us who think of ourselves as being amazing Idea Guys.
By the time you're in your early 20s, you generally grow out of it anyway. Unless you never finish an idea still.

Besides, the anon who wants to hire an artist has a point. Adding talent to your work has it's advantages while learning how to draw well enough for a graphic novel would take at least half a decade and during this time they couldn't do much to improve their writing.

Though at 100-500 bucks per page (and possible more for the really skilled ones), it's going to be pricy, so it doesn't make too much sense for an early work.

>>18310955
>"settling" for writing a novel
yeah the idea of settling for being a pure writer rubs me the wrong way. the greatest-written video games or anime or comics have a writing quality to them which would relegate them to serialization on royal road. when you compare it to how high the upper reaches of literature can go, it's just a ridiculous proposition that you can do anything but dedicate your entire life to writing if you want to write anything than transcends genre fiction.

>>18311020
>if you want to write anything than transcends genre fiction
Most people don't aim for that. Even most published writers don't.

>>18311035
Ignore the pseud.

>>18311040
>heh, i'll call the guy i disagree with a pseud, that'll show him!
>>18311035
fair enough. i mean, i fucking hate that, but fair enough. not like i can really say anything about people's goals except that i don't approve.

>what, you didn't know that my personal opinions are the litmus test for TruIntellectualism™? heh... how unfortunate...

>>18311020
>>18311035
I would self-identify my aspirations for this project as competent genre fiction, and even that seems lofty for a first real book. I cringe so hard when I see people who clearly don't read ask for the most basic of writing tips.

One of my gamer friends wrote a full-length book that must have been 100% worldbuilding and I was just like "Bro, where are the characters? What is the story? I don't care about the international political repercussions of this dumb magical realism moment from chapter 1"

But I guess he's still written more finished novels than I have, so take everything I say as shitty hack advice.

>>18304110
Find a way to make the chapter relevant to the plot.

>>18311056
Everytime.

>>18311110
what happens every time? use your big boy words

>>18311093
At least he writes. Which is more than can be said about anons here.

>>18311129
Heard loud and clear, Anon. Even my least favorite authors have more writing published than I do. My best criticism should be reserved for turning inward, lol.

>>18311149
That's good to hear.

New thread
>>18311164

Why is it so hard to just begin something? I'm thinking I should just write anything to fill the blank pages, like how artists don't start on a white canvas.

>>18311209
search the most dangerous writing app. i just boot it up every day for 15 minutes on the mode where you can't even see what you typed and just let her rip. you could also just turn your monitor off. most likely you will get nothing of any use at all in anything, but for whatever reason it does help me loosen my mind up a bit for the "actual" writing that follows

>>18310863
>culturelet demands to be pandered to
just accept that your sensibilities are stunted
that being said, the name is gonna sound silly to pretty much every westie

>>18311329
Even semi-educated westies have some contact with other cultures and people.

>>18310955
>settling for writing a novel
>assuming writing is the easiest creative skill
>the core foundation on which the story of any narrative medium rests
You disgust me. You absolute dumb fuck. Just because it has a low barrier to entry and you lack the tools to identify that beginner writing is just as repulsive as beginner art, doesn't mean that it's something in which you'll be able to gain competence in
Stay deluded and stay lazy

>>18310765
then atleast stop fucking saying the whole name everytime you refer to him. it just sounds like you're purposely trying to parody.

>>18311382
I appreciate it, but I DON'T assume writing is the easiest creative skill. I don't assume ANY of them are particularly easy, but I know for sure that I don't have the authentic passion for drawing that would lead me to advance my ass-awful art. I was actually trying to be critical of people who think that because writing has a low barrier to entry, it must necessarily be easier than anything else. Any aspiring creative ought to try to deduce where their strengths actually are.

>>18311382
Not him and I get why writers will be triggered by the notion but it's not wrong. A beginner artist might get some likes on social media but is unlikely to sell anything. A beginner writer could publish a novel and sell millions.

>>18311457
>A beginner writer could publish a novel and sell millions.
Just as unlikely as a beginner artist selling things (which does happen, I used to do it myself).

>>18311457
>A beginner writer could publish a novel and sell millions
depends on what you mean by beginner. no matter how memetic and how well they ride the waves of trend, i don't see anyone just picking up a pencil and writing a successful novel without having put in some legwork.

>>18311473
I mean both is very unlikely but at least I don't know any artists who made serious money with their first published works.
>>18311493
Welllll, there was some 12 year old girl with a bestseller and obviously the Eragon guy but sure, generally they need to know some basics. But isn't it same with art too, unless your work somehow becomes a meme … and then it's still a pain to monetize it.

>>18311542
>12 year old girl with a bestseller
is this the girl whose nanowrimo novel got published? it's impossible to speak broadly while excluding all exceptions

>>18311542
The industries aren't particularly comparable. First published work probably isn't your first work in writing and there's so much behind the scenes. I'd be very surprised if that 12 year old girl did all that much herself. etc etc

>>18311434
Your standards of what is acceptable writing and what are acceptable drawings is skewed. You say you're willing to settle for low level genre fiction trash but that is no different that settling for web comic level doodles
Why do you want to write if you don't have any love for the medium and its merits. You have no or at best, little awareness for the qualities that make writing worthwhile, evidenced if by nothing else, all the criticism on the absolute amateurness of what you've shared
Accept the labor of learning and that writing is only easier in respect that the expectations of people who don't appreciate the medium are lower. It's distasteful both to the medium and to your own aspirations that you would 'settle'
Just learn to fucking draw. It's not as legendary a process as you seem to be imagining it, no more so than writing

>>18311561
Not even sure which.
https://www.news9.com/story/5e35dd782f69d76f6201cdec/tulsa-12yearold-writes-illustrates-publishes-book
Though seems she kinda ticks the artist boxes too.
>she actually wrote the original story a couple of years ago and she's been writing and rewriting since, and working on the illustrations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_written_by_children_or_teenagers
Apparently there is even a fucking wiki article ...
>>18311569
But the same work behind the scenes applies for artists too. Besides, kids tend to get some very basics from school when it comes to writing; though I do agree that it's tricky to compare the industries.
>I'd be very surprised if that 12 year old girl did all that much herself. etc etc
Tbqh, I wouldn't be. I've seen lots of kiddy writing (even from my own sis when she was that age) that was relatively decent as in "I want to continue reading this". And due the personal nature of writing, it's generally fascinating to see how kids perceive the world in their own words. Actually finishing and than revisiting a work is where most fail.

>>18308311
i dont draw on commission so id have no idea. the other person that replied is right though.

think of it like this, you have an idea for a fully fledged moon base. you have the layout planned, all the buildings in order, and the roles other people would play. you want it made, and while its a good idea, almost all of the work that will be put into it will come from other people. you aren't laying a single tarp or launching a single rocket.

its best if you were to just learn yourself. webcomics are an easy to access medium for beginners, and any experience will be good experience to prepare you for your next big idea.

not to mention how its unlikely for someone genuinely interested in your work would draw your idea for pay instead of their own. the cost would be insanely high, let alone being able to find someone like that in the first place. the amount of time for you to write the idea may be many times faster than how fast they can draw.

>>18310910
im currently putting it into script format. im very much a visual person, and not the strongest reader from an attention span perspective. i have most of the scenes already made out in my mind but it very much is just an outline. the full doc describing camera angles and camera breaks basically made each sentence a full paragraph long, and very difficult for me to read without being stuck on descriptions of scenes as opposed to the over all flow of the scenes. since graphic novels arent the norm here as far as i can tell, i opted for the doc without them. the pastebin link was just to show the scene by scene outline.

>>18310955
im the one who made the draft.
could you explain what you meant by tension between creative over reach? im also lost on the comparison to litrpg and MMO's.

the draft i have is just a stand alone graphic novel. nothing comparable to one piece. as far as im concerned, its the story i want to make and im just looking for critique for the scene flow or details missing at this point, though as others have stated i do need to reformat it. but as i mentioned im a visual person and the draft serves its purpose for me while thumbnailing. i will still reformat though.

there are game inspired details, like enemies dropping items on death, but its barely a center theme, just a cool detail to attach to since many people can understand video game drops. but mmo and litrpg, i dont know what you mean

>>18311598
Man, I was trying to engage with you in good faith but you can't even properly punctuate your sentences. Pull your head out of your ass, faggot. I like to read all sorts of things, and it just so happens that the project I feel able to write right now is Vonnegut and Le Guin-inspired light social sci-fi. I think that literary quality is something relatively harder to quantify than just bad vs good, and I like a whole range of books from dumb to smart. I'm not Pynchon. I know my first published novel isn't going to look like V. May I have your permission to start with something a little less impressive?

>>18311841
That was mostly just an ADHD connective thought dissing all the reddit threads I see that are like "I want to become a writer, but I don't have a story or characters. How do I write a full-length bestselling fantasy novel?"

I feel like there's a whole crop of kids raised on video games and anime and shit (I mean, same) who would honest-to-god rather be writing for actual Japanese anime or the next Bioware game than writing a novel, but because they have access to Microsoft Word and not a house of Korean slave animators, they "settle" for writing a book -- probably in the hopes that their ideas are SO GOOD that Spielberg will pick it up for the movie. It happened to Ernest Cline!

>>18310955
LitRPG is one of the hardest genres you can write for just because the skill set for writing, and the skill set for designing interesting systems has very little overlap. And then, not only do you need both talent sets, you must interweave them properly or it comes off as watching people play a game instead of live in one... and even the no stakes VR only ones still have them become their characters at least for a time.
And then there is keeping track of logistics so you aren't just throwing out random numbers for the sake of it... 90% has shit systems, 9% is generic MMO bar moving, 1% is legit good system.
And don't even fucking get me started on all the woke Western authors ruining entertainment as they always do.

What are your thoughts on onomatopoeia? Should they be used?

>>18312448
i feel thats a bit subjective. if youre one person its not really settling, just the most your ability can handle. Japanese mangakas make what they can alone and if serialized they will get staff to assist and potentially a show. some want to start small, others have to. shooting too high will snuff it out.

for me, i just have an idea and i decide to make it. im not aiming for best seller and looking for a story from there.

and comparing best selling novels to products of bioware and anime is like saying 12 angry men and casa blanca are better than any comedy because the prior are much more serious and have a take away, despite comedies having more room for enjoyment than a thought heavy drama movie for some people. take the truman show, as example.

almost everything is subjective for creative material, and the capacity of one person doesn't dictate the value of it in my opinion.

>>18312549
I'm the same guy who's arguing with that dude that I can write a pulpy science fiction book and it won't inherently be shit just because of the genre ghetto.

And despite what I just said, I still agree with him that people who want to write books should basically be required by law read them, appreciate them, and be interested in how and why they work. They can work on multiple levels -- I agree with you that The Truman Show (a movie I like) does not have the same goal and does not have to be assessed with the same standards as Casablanca (a movie I also like) regarding what constitutes a good or successful movie.

I just reread a manga yesterday (Chikan Otoko) that was finished in pencil and has rough-looking, but fully immersive and impressive visuals. The guy's paneling and composition during the important moments elevates the sameface and the boring pages. I fully believe that one person with a piece of paper can make great art!

>>18312533
>LitRPG is one of the hardest genres you can write for
Lol no, it's one of the harder genres to do WELL. If you measure success by audience approval or how hard you can grift your readers it's clearly one of the easier genres to write for. Really, the only remotely hard thing is, as you said, the "system". The rest is standard characterization and good plot.

>>18312632
Perhaps I should rephrase. For something like fantasy or scifi, the floor is around 25 on a scale of 0-100. Even if you're really bad at writing a story you will still write one, it just won't really be worth reading.
The floor for LitRPG is around -25, just because between the RR spam chapters crowd, and the KU spam statblocks for page count increasing crowd you can very easily get something that isn't a story at all, not even the woke story that its western author intended. And if you do say you know what, quantity over quality, you will just be lost in the crowd as that sort of thing only worked early on and a few have already cornered the market on it.

>>18312608
what youre describing would be the dunning kruger effect/cognitive bias. the idea that people who aren't experienced in a field would see them selves as competent in it.
the flow of progression in any field starting as a beginner flows like this.
unconscious incompetence->conscious incompetence->conscious competence->unconscious competence.
you dont even have the capacity to know how bad you are at something until you've learned it a little, until you grow to know how good you can be.

personally ive been reading comics, webcomics, manga, and graphic novels since i was little. always making my own little ideas but never making much further than a fantasy for myself.
and while i agree people should have experience absorbing the form of media they hope to make, i see that some medias are better suited for some stories than others. for example, scott pilgrim vs the world. the main cast is centered around being in a band and it is difficult to follow that plot through in comic form without actual sound to accompany it. when it was adapted into a movie they were able to really hone in on the musical expression and inspiration the comic drew from, like smashing pumpkins. and while the comics story in my opinion is better, the over all value of the story is highlighted by the movies ability to express its musical roots.

now the ability to create a creative expression for any medium is easily accessible. live action movies, animation, comics, music, video games, just about everything can be made and has been made by one person before.
stardew valley, porter robinson, homestuck, any newgrounds user, matt mercer as a DM, any youtube creator and so on.

now creative media is a balance of self expression, surface level enjoyment, and deeper meanings. experience doesnt dictate how popular it can be anymore, but it sure does help when going up against everyone else who is doing the same thing equally as alone.