/lit/ - Literature

I'd put Tertullian's apology instead of Gaystoevsky.

>Pascal’s wager
Lol
>I deserve to be tortured forever because I stole an apple once
Double lol
>muh atheist strawman with an axe
Triple lol

Is that it? Is this the best Christianity has to offer?

>>18287343
The final "conversion" chart is pic related

>>18287370
talking about strawmen, your post is one...

>>18287384
false. none gets immediately converted after reading genealogies, supernatural happenings and Jewish laws that most current legal systems would consider brutal

>>18287357
gaystoievsky speaks to the soul

>>18287517
only to dead souls

>>18287343
Will to Believe by William James

I don’t know what I’m missing about Dostoevsky but it seems to me that his premise that if there is no God, then all is permitted is at least as much a justification that everything is actually permitted as it is a justification that God exists.

>>18287343
Is this the final "de-conversion" chart? Can someone remain a theist after reading these three books in this specific order, left to right?

>>18287778
It follows the presupposition that all is not permitted, be that by societal norms, human understanding of morality, et al

>>18287370
When it's so obvious you havnt read the books, why bother commenting on them?

>>18287788
The problem with Hume was his categorical rejection of anything other than empiricism. Kant, Shopenhauer and Nagel all demonstrate that this is autistic nonsense. And Hume's response? "Oh well, you may be right, but like, it's better for society if we pretend you're not,". Someone worshipping Hume is a sure sign that they got something wrong.

>>18287796
Yeah, but that’s exactly the issue isn’t it? To even present the notion implies that possibly that presupposition is false or at least not justified. If the existence of God is exactly what’s being questioned, why would I suppose that all is not permitted? It seems to me equally likely that the presupposition is false.

>>18287801
theirs a gap where i put my mouth & ink and it aint between schmozled japanese weddings.
>ib4largerthankite

>>18287908
Nigga.....

>>18287908

>>18287513
Keep strawmanning fag

>>18287513
>genealogies
esoterically prefigure Jesus Christ, the Logos made flesh
>supernatural happenings
esoterically prefigure Jesus Christ, the Logos made flesh
>Jewish laws
esoterically prefigure Jesus Christ, the Logos made flesh
>that most (((current legal systems))) would consider brutal
See pic related

You also forgot: The teaching of Jesus Christ, which is "sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow." (Hebrews 4:12)

>>18288122
Very nice, but that's not what the average atheist gets from a plain reading of the Bible. You have to read other secondary sources to realize that and then read the Bible in that light, that's why I'm recommending other literature instead.

>>18288136
When Moses wrote, "this song will testify against them, because it will not be forgotten from the lips of their descendants" (Deuteronomy 3:21), I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about Dostoevsky ;)

>>18288136
>>18288136
"Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’" (Luke 16:31)

>>18288166
The purpose of apologetics is to get you in the mood to understand the prophets, none has ever accepted Moses's words in face value immediately without some initiative persuasion before, like Paul did to the Greeks. Otherwise Christians have been writing apologetics for nothing, I guess they should have yelled bible verses instead.

>>18288085
have you read the fucking book?

>>18288212
>I guess they should have yelled bible verses instead
Unironically yes

>accepted Moses's words in face value immediately
"The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he remains for only a season. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away." (Matthew 13:20-21)

>>18287828
Kant was refuted by non-euclidean geometry.

>>18288251
Non-euclidean was proven to be a spook by Shopenhauerean monism, which is built on Kant, effectively meaning that Kant nullifies the refutation of him through german Idealism

>>18287513
the Sermon in Matthew hits pretty hard, enough to lean me toward an athiest pseudo-Christian, just for the aesthetic-moral power.

>>18288212
Jesus said, "I will make you fishers of men". Now, when you go fishing, what do you do? Do you...

A) Set out a net or a line, kick back, and wait for fish to bite?

or

B) Dive into the water, find the nearest fish, and begin debating it about why it ought to leap into your hands

>>18287343
for me it was tolkien then chesterton then catherine of siena then aquinas

>>18288343
If you think Sermon on the Mount hits hard when you're sober, try reading it on LSD some time. It has a power that transcends far, far beyond Pascal/Augustine/Dostoevsky or any other mortal other than Christ

'On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick."' (Matthew 9:12)

>>18288338
that's a nice way to cope with being a lazy mathematically illiterate retard

>>18288370
Praise the Lord you found Christ, brother. "Blessed is He who cometh in the name of the Lord"

>>18288122
>that pic
>Christian hell punishing the unbelievers forever is moral
>Islamic hell punishing Christians forever somehow isn’t

>>18288392
True mathematical illiteracy is when you don't even realize that mathematical constructs exist solely in the intelligible world and do not have a direct correspondence with the tangible things in this perceptible world.

"But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be required of you. Then who will own what you have accumulated?’" (Luke 12:20)

>>18288421
Pic related

Why do Protestant retards hate apologetics?

>>18288425
>mathematical constructs exist solely in the intelligible world
>descriptive tools only exist when intelligent entity needs a description
Thanks Pythagoras, how does this make the sky fairy who sacrificed his own son whose really him to pay a debt for a ribwoman being tricked by a talking snake to eat an apple real?

>>18288440
You will know them by their fruits

>>18287343
god is gay lmaooooooo

christians eternally btfo

>>18288436
>affirming = demonstrating
This actually explains a good portion of Christianity

By the way, do you know that a Muslim will say the exact same thing? How do I know who’s right?

>>18288465
Because the same people who want you to get triple-vaxed while wearing three masks and eating a bugburger in your living-pod, also want you to tolerate and respect Islam which as we all know is the religion of peace. And those very same people also will assure you that Christianity is "highly problematic"

>>18288449

>>18288492
And even if your shitty strawman of leftism were 100% true, that still wouldn’t prove Christianity was true in any way shape or form

>>18288502
>This is ridiculous, nothing like this could ever happen in real life

That may be the first accurate thing you’ve ever said, good job

https://youtu.be/DBdy77WpKIA

>>18288511
>>18288525
You rage against Christ because deep down you hunger and thirst to eat Christ's flesh and drink Christ's blood

'So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you."' (John 6:53)

>>18288545
>You rage against Christ because deep down you hunger and thirst to eat Christ's flesh and drink Christ's blood

And you rage against Muhammed because deep down you want to commit shirk and worship the cross instead of Allah.

Notice how you don’t accept your own bullshit logic when others use it against you? What does that tell you, do you think? Does it tell you that maybe this heresy logic is conspiracy theory tier horseshit, and that all it does is make your beliefs look really stupid?

>>18288376
"when thou are sick, anoint thy head and wash thy face, that no man may now your trouble"
"what god (which I use as my aesthetic spirit) sees privately he will reward openly"
"for they seek the vanity of men. Truly, I say, they will have their reward"

Reaffirmed my obsession with ousting vanity after reading Ecclesiastes.
I'd rather seek transcendental experience than psych ones desu.

>>18288571
If you're trying to find God through logic, you're gonna have a long hard find. God can only be reached through divine revelation, which is only given by the Son.

"For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven." (Matthew 16:17)

>>18288583
Pray that the Lord will help you with your vanity, for we cannot overcome our vanity without his help. Pray for him to help me overcome mine as well

>>18288597
And the Muslims say the exact same thing about their prophet, and pretty much every other religion says the same thing about their specific set of beliefs. Now, I’ll ask you again, why should I pick yours over theirs? Remember, pretty much all of them claim to be the only right one, certainly the monotheistic ones, so how do I know which is the right one? If this is derived solely from divine revelation, how does your revelation differ from any other out there?

>>18288622
If God does not reveal it to you, then you will never know it. If so, then you are one of the weeds which was sown among the good crops, which Christ allows to grow up so that the good crops will not be destroyed along with it. When the harvest comes, then the harvesters will cast you into the fire, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Pray, therefore, for God to reveal himself to you

>>18288610
do not despair, one of the thieves was saved
do not presume, one of the thieves was damned

Both despair and presumption bring vanity, we must live above both.

I love Jesus so much.

>>18288776
Christ is King, brother. Blessed is He who cometh in the name of the Lord!

Where do I start
>the bible
I have one in my e reader, but after Cain and Abel, it's a loooooooooong list of names and family members and I usually start getting lost there

What is a good commentary and study companion in addition to the bible? I feel like I'm going miss out on alot of details that will prove relevant in later scriptures

>>18288622
The fact that God became man, so that man would find to God changes everything. Only the christian God, falls into doubt at the cross and says: "Why God, why, has thou forsaken me". The fact that God himself becomes alienated from himself is a thing wholly unique to christianity. It is significant,because it means that our struggles are shared by divinity, and that the absence of God is part of God himself. Those who have been Atheists, can therefore only become Christian. Us who feel that God is absent can rest assured in Christ, but not be saved by Mohammed in this manner, for Mohammed is a mere man.

>>18289286
For the genealogies, just force yourself to read them out loud. They're not really that bad. Plus for the ones in Genesis some of them become a lot cooler if you just understand that when they say e.g.
>"And he was the father of all who live in houses and tents"
you can interpret that as
>"This dude invented houses."

>>18287788
>no spinoza

>>18288376
sus

>>18289295
>Why God, why, has thou forsaken me
This becomes even more badass when you realize it's a reference to Psalm 22, the Psalm of the Cross, which basically predicts the crucifixion. Back then, it was customary to refer to things by quoting the first line (Psalm 22 starts out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"). So the saying has double meanings, the meaning you alluded but also the meaning of "These Jews who are murdering me have just played exactly into my plans which I wrote in their own holy books"

have you ever had a mystical experience?

>>18288122
You "I worship the logos" people are some of the worst out there

>>18289386
Thank you, brother. For, "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you." (Matthew 5:11-12)

>>18289360
I think often times mystical experiences come in ways where there is plausible deniability (for example, God wouldn't let you levitate on live TV, because that would cause mass chaos). I saw a vision of Christ during an LSD aftershock, which I believe was a genuine vision, but obviously the circumstances make it ambiguous and deniable

>>18289402
10/10 christ post
That sound like how a christian would respond. All you larpers take note of this post, and stop being religious posers

>>18288465
>How do I know who’s right?
Use reason

>>18288511
Read those three damn books in the OP!!!

>>18287343
I wouldn’t say conversion, more like deviation from atheism. Not necessarily into a religion

>>18287343
I've read them and I'm still a Jew, so I imagine it's possible to remain atheist as well.

>>18289529
That doesn’t answer my question. There’s thousands of religions, they all claim to be the only right one, why should I believe that yours is the actual only right one?

>>18287788
Why Cicero? If you're going classical skepticism surely you'd go for the Pyrrhonists?

>>18288160
Matthew 7:8 is plain wrong. I sought God, prayed to Jesus, read the Bible, went to church, and I felt nothing spiritual, no calling from God. When I tried telling this to people I just get excuses, the worst was someone claiming that you need to treat faith like a muscle and just keep trying and trying and trying until you feel something. Well sure, if I train myself to think in a certain way I will think in that way, but how would I know that God had anything to do with it?

I want to know if Christianity is true because it would be damn important if it's true. But I don't have this yearning for God that supposedly everyone has. I remain unconvinced, and apparently that means I'll suffer the worst torture imaginable for all of eternity because I have reasons to be skeptical that seem pretty reasonable. If I'm just blinded to it (as Paul says some people are) then God has obviously predestined me for Hell so I may as well not worry about it while I'm on Earth.

>>18288376
Drop the drug, it's not the Lord 's way.

>>18290225
>If I'm just blinded to it (as Paul says some people are) then God has obviously predestined me for Hell so I may as well not worry about it while I'm on Earth.
Maybe this defeatist calvinist (heresy) position is what stops you from becoming Christian. You cannot give up, there's no way you're already a lost cause.

>>18288251
>this meme again
https://philpapers.org/archive/CUFKVO.pdf

>>18288642
Anon what experience made you a Christian?

>>18287343
I read Confessions two months ago and TBK just this month. I already feel more powerful.

>>18290173
No actual answer to this. People believe in Christianity because they were born into it, that's it. To the extent that they have any justification, it's faith and a supposed personal connection to God. But any attempt at rationally demonstrating a particular religion is ultimately just a cope.

>>18288231
>sabotaging your evangelism
lol
>not doing what you can to save even a single soul, not by your strength, but by God's will, and such a conversion being an infinite gain for heaven and an infinite loss for hell

>>18288645
That's such an interesting comment on the thieves. Did you come up with it or is it from somewhere else. I'd like to read them/watch their videos.

While TBK is essential reading, Dostoevesky's main argument—that if there is no God, then anything is allowed—is wrong. Zizec argues, "'If God is dead, then everything is permitted' should be reversed in the 21st Century. Instead, great evil can be committed in the name of God (or the Big Other) as the superego sanctions and gives permission to 'go all the way' in the 'name of the Father'."

How does /lit/ respond to this argument?

>>18292422
I'd say neither of them are entirely right but Dostoevsky is somewhat closer to the truth than Zizek. Humans have innate moral impulses for one thing and they aren't just jettisoned entirely if you become an atheist so Dostoevsky is addressing a problem that doesn't even actually exist in some sense. On the other hand Zizek is wrong that God is the only rationalization for extreme behavior that people come up with, any ideology will do(unless that what he means by 'big other'?), and people will also justify evil based purely on petty emotional reasons, any excuse really will do if someone really wants to commit evil.

That being said ideology is not entirely irrelevant, and I think that what you choose to use as your basic structure of existential belief does matter for how you behave. I'm not sure what Zizek recommends using for this but I do know that using eg. political ideology is vastly more destructive than using God. I'd say God is actually only of the least destructive things you can use because it ties you to an absolute sense of the Good that can't be distorted by temporal circumstance. People can use religion as an excuse for their evil of course, but I think that religion itself being the real source of evil is actually kind of rare, it's usually political and ethnic and personal conflicts masquerading as religious conflicts. Religion itself has a pacifying effect on people imo. It doesn't have to be a typical religion, plenty of New Age spiritual types with ridiculous beliefs still clearly get this type of benefit from it because they conceive of it in a similar way, an absolute Good that transcends the material world.

When he says that God gives permission to go all the way in the name of the Father I think this is wrong. I think people are ignoring their feeling of God when they do things like that, because the feeling of God is a feeling of mercy, love, peace, etc. If on the other hand you use a political ideology, anything from democracy to nazism to communism, there is no such feeling associated with it, there is instead a complex picture of the world you want to create and a hated other that is opposing you from achieving this goal. Same if your evil is predicated on some individual who has wronged you or something you want.

>>18287343
>Can someone remain an Atheist after reading these three books in this specific order, left to right?

Well fuck me, son, I do think you've cracked the code at long last.

>>18287788
The Miracle of Theism is flat out bad. If you want to debunk an argument it's not too much to ask that you actually engage in a meaningful way with actual theist philosophy. He doesn't event touch Plotinus he just argues against Protestant Analytic Philosophy like Swinburne and Platinga

>>18287343
>God-tier: Dostoevsky (master proto-psychiatrist)
>Good-tier: Pascal (great mind destroyed by pity)
>Shit-tier: Augustine (Pauline-tier from one extreme to the other gibberish)

>>18287500
you dont know what a strawman is, kid

>>18288166
>tHe bIbLe iS tHe oNlY bOoK yOu sHoUlD rEaD
Let me guess, you are a protestant.

>>18291078
>yeah trust me, what he says in his best know work is irrelevant, from some notes he took somewhere in his diary we can pretend he implied something else
A reminder that Kant said that space was a priori conceived as 3d and this is just categorically untrue
Try acid

>>18291078
>>18293164
Sorry, I mixed up which paper you posted. My point still stands. Kant still made PRECISE GEOMETRIC STATEMENTS which.
1) Are categorically untrue in the physical world as shown by the geometrists and Einstein
2) Are categorically non-universal for people, as you can see by taking mind-altering substances or interviewing people without sight. This is especially egregious, because you can listen to interviews with physicists (and I do this myself as well), where they will tell you how they think about fundamental physical objects (strings or spinors or whatever) in great detail.
All this posturing is completely unecassary as we can consider VERY CLEARLY DEFINED things he said and show that they are untrue.

Mere Christianity

>>18287343
>final conversion chart
>neither book is about theology
>from the left the books are "dude postmodernism is actually right wing lmao", "sex bad" and "anything more liberal than tsarist caмoдзepжaвe is literally communism and nihilism"
Checks out

City of God
The Abolition of Man
The Everlasting Man

>>18287343
I cannot believe in a God that has given me a small penis. I have been chastised and humiliated since before birth. It was Gods plan since creation, his joke on me. I cannot forgive that.

>>18293225
confessions has some theology parts, but the chart is focused on apologetics, not on theology.

>>18288571

Why do you Mudslimes always want to pollute Christianity with the presence of your pedo prophet? Fuck off, Heathen.

>>18287370
Le epic arr booker has arrived.
Read the books before commenting, retard

>>18293238
>introduction by thomas merton
that dude has a ton of lectures on literature and philosophy on audible for like $5 each

Where can I get an epub or mobi study bible without paying? I can only find PDFs on libgen and I don’t want to shill 14 dollars for an amazon copy with drm.

>>18287343
>ctrl+f
>no "Tolstoy"
ludicrous

>>18294009
better to not convert than to convert to tolstoy's-like "Christianity"

Test

>>18287384
>KJV

son...

>>18288370
Glad to see another fellow Catherine bro. Wish /lit/ would discuss her more.

>>18288122
You sound like someone who is trying to repeat a mantra so as to not accidentally consider that he is wrong. Psychologically drown out other people's views so they don't touch your mind.

>>18288597
You are getting ragdolled mate

>>18293984
There are plenty of them on libgen so dunno what you are talking about. Depends on what study bible you want though. Orthodog? Cathcuck? Protranny?
>http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=9D5F52E77E66CCFDC289F306CD92E63C
>http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=51714C093CE3E62E2535602D93102C78
>http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=ED6FD0D73EC2463712F3BF8BE0286F53

>>18287724
That’s Gogol you fucking retard

>>18287384
How do you deal with all the misogyny, though?

>>18295032
By not being a sissy.

>>18287343
You can't convert genetic pagans. You can only subdue them.

>>18295068
It is not strength to give away your daughters to be raped.

>>18295032
If you can't deal with it, you might be too weak to exist in this world.
I'd tell you to kill yourself but you certainly too much of a coward.

>>18295074
Both of the people in that picture, Caesar and Vercingetorix were pagan.

ITT: Larpers

>>18295124
Religiously yes. Genetically and psychologically no. Only northern Europe (barbarians) are genetically pagan. The differences in their behavior also indicate this (genetic pagans have no interest in conquering all peoples and herding them into a single regime).

>>18287828
Hume didn't have a response dumby, he was dead

>>18295135
You are literally just making shit up right now.

>>18295146
If you want to believe that, then sure.

>>18295135
cope. No European population is genetically and psychologically christcuck.

>>18295172
Christianity first appeared in southern Europe because it had a genetic predisposition for it, much like how modern science (e.g. relativity and quantum physics) is primarily a northern European phenomenon.

>>18295190
Christianity first appeared in southern Europe because it is closer to the middle east. Southern Europeans rightfully mocked and thought the entire religion to be cringe though, until of course as always happens the atomized urbanized slave classes and enough women had united against kin and tradition.

>>18295155
>Just declares shit that comes to his head
>Gets called out
>"If you want to believe that, then sure"
Lightweight. You declare what YOU believe as fact, do nothing to back up your nutjob ideas. And claim I'm believing nonsense.
The absolute state of you.

>>18295190
>>18295211
Post hoc ergo prophet hoc.

>>18287788
You do realize Cicero was a theist and Hume may have been a Christian, right?

>>18295211
>Christianity first appeared in southern Europe because it is closer to the middle east.
Which means that there was a greater Middle Eastern genetic admixture among its population. Med societies weren't genetically identical to the northern barbarians.

>>18295214
Keep seething retard.

>>18295032
What misogyny? Is threating women like women such misogynistic?

>>18295223
Physiognomy is real.

>>18295224
>everything I like which is not actually Christian is either proto-Christian or crypto-Christian

>>18295259
Nice piece of scholarship, bud, but I never said Cicero was proto-Christian.

>>18295242
Keep making shit up retard.

>>18295276
>>18295248

>>18295074
what do you mean by "genetic pagans"? Before Christianity everyone was a pagan except for Jews

>>18295125
Pascal and Augustine were very sincere converts, Dostoevsky was more of a larper but not really

>>18295074
>>18295190
imagine believing this lmfao. Celts and Nords have been Christian for ages, get over it Varg.

>>18295372
The Latin root of the word pagan means "rustic." Later Vulgar Latin defined it as "not Jewish/Christian." By genetically pagan I mean those who fit the genetic mold of the northern barbarian stereotype in ancient Mediterranean civilizations.

>>18295426
>I'm incapable of making distinctions in nature
Want to know how I can tell that you have more south than north in your genetic makeup?

>>18295426
>The dude literally said you should subdue pagans.
>Varg

>Celts and Nords have been Christian for centuries.
And because of it there won't be any more Celts or Nords. What a treasure this religion has been for its adherents.
Why are Fuentes sucking poltards on /lit/ anyway?

>>18295139
That just isn't true. I saw him yesterday, you gaslighting faggot

>>18295224
Hume might have been a deist, but his rejection of miracles definitely takes him out of the running as a potential “Christian”

Imagine becoming religious without childhood indoctrination

>>18287343
>Can someone remain an Atheist after reading these three books in this specific order, left to right?
Yes, but don’t ask me to prove it to you right now.

>Pensèes

>>18295466
Yeah because northern countries aren't full atheist, they're pious christians anyways

>>18295135
>Religiously yes. Genetically and psychologically no. Only northern Europe (barbarians) are genetically pagan.
This shithole of a website ought to make a /phil/ board right now so that all the religion threads get expelled from /lit/.

>>18295074
>genetic pagans

>>18287343
>pensees
refuted by hume
>confessions
refuted by kant
>brothers karamazov
refuted by sartre

>>18295271
>Bro the scholarship is behind me trust me
nice sources

>>18295594
>>18295625
t. liberals who think everyone can be converted over to their religion

>>18295525
Unironically childhood is essential, since you have experienced it you see it isn't that bad as gaytheists put it

the conversion is europe went from a completely savage place where ethnic groups were constantly attempting to exterminate each other to a nearly idylic place compared to the rest of the world once it adopted catholocism

>>18295882
Shut the fuck up! those regions have been Christian since the middle ages! open a book!

>>18295625
Autistics.

>>18295980
So who isn't Christian then?

>>18296018
Soon everyone except subsaharan Africans. Also known as genetic Christians.

>>18295135
>>18295074
>>18295190

Germanic tribes were among some of the most enthusiastic and based converts to Christianity though. Goths and Vandals converted to Christianity faster than the Romans had.

> The Goths had long embraced Christianity. It had spread from them to their allies. And among all the Germanic invaders of the empire there’s not a single instance of a tribe adopting the paganism of Greece and Rome. Alaric and his Goths, who were Arians, directed their wrath against heathen temples even more zealously than the Christians of the empire. In the capture of Rome temples were attacked while churches were reverenced. The Roman pagan writer Rutilius criticised the Goths and Alaric for their destruction of many pagan temples across Greece and Italy and called them Scarilegae while pagan writers like Eunapius blamed the Goths for helping end the Hellenic religion in Greece.

> While in Greece Alaric struck west for the city of Eleusis. Eleusis had one of the foremost religious pagan centers of Greece. The city had remained pagan until the invasion of Alaric. His attack on that city was as savage as any in his entire Greek adventure. Alaric, in his own perverse way, constantly saw himself as a good Christian. At Eleusis, he destroyed the ancient temple of Demeter, the Greek goddess of agriculture, along with everything else there. Eleusis had also been the site of eleusinian mysteries, the best known of the secret ceremonies of the Ancient Greek religion, but the last remnants of the Mysteries were wiped out in 396 AD, when Arian Christian Goths under Alaric, destroyed and desecrated the sacred sites.

I know /lit/ can be particularly hostile but I appreciate every christposter, especially those that respond to questions

I like your insight and lurk, and despite the screeching from /lit/, it's valid discussion, just as the other religions have their threads and discussion

>>18296039
>Germanic tribes were among some of the most enthusiastic and based converts to Christianity though.
According to who?

>>18288141
This is what happens when you abandon sola scriptura.

When I read the Gospels and books like the Imitation of Christ I feel like I’m being drawn to a life of piety. The constant exhortations to forsake this world and all the vanity under the sun for a life in Christ are starting to break me down. As of late I’ve stopped daydreaming of luxury penthouses and Bentleys containing bags of money and hot pieces of ass, but I still have yearnings for carnal pleasures. The place of many mansions where there’ll be no crying or pain is captivating but I’m not sure if I can bring myself to believe in it. Deep down it seems too implausible to me, but the alternative is too bleak to bear. Any books for this feel?

>>18296018
you can stop being a Christian. for God's sake, Christianity is not a genetic trait it's a religion... wtf is wrong with you guys...

>>18296110
Unironically read The Bible over and over. Pray. Read the Psalms. Learn to love God, He is thy hepherd and thou shalt not want. Abstain from carnal pleasure. Get used to it.

>>18296136
>you can stop being a Christian
Only if it's just a form of dress for you in the first place.

>>18296046

Actual studies: https://ejournals.epublishing.ekt.gr/index.php/deltion/article/viewFile/4810/4586

> The reexamination of the written sources and of the aftermath of the damages to the Parthenon confirms Alison Frantz’s view that the ancient fire was instigated by the fanatical newly baptized Christian Visigoths led by Alaric, who suppressed the ancient religion by destroying its sanctuaries through methods known in the East. The systematic chiseling away of the metopes of the temple and the destruction of statues seems to have been concurrent with the fire.

> As it has already been noted, destroying the Parthenon was no easy task. It necessitated that the Parthenon’s destroyers be imbued by wrathful loathing against the ancient cult (the Parthenon was later rebuilt by the Greek inhabitants after Alaric and the Goths had left).

> Be that as it may, the Eleusis sanctuary was thoroughly destroyed and never reopened its doors after the raid. Corinth and Olympia were destroyed next. Suffice it to say that, even later, when Alaric marched into Rome and plundered it, the frenzy over destroying ancient temples had not yet abated. Even the hostility manifested against the inhabitants of Greece (pagans and Christians alike) may have been hiding some ulterior religious motives, given that the German speaking barbarians were followers of the heretic Arius.

>>18293125
I thought you were dead, Nietschze

>>18287788
Try
>God is not great by Christopher Hitchens
>The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
>Sam Harris on Dave Rubin’s podcast

in that order

>>18295224
Lmao cope

>>18296067
Are you retarded? These people are the most enthusiastic adherents of the solar scriptura because that allows them to reinterpret the scripture in accordance with liberal agenda and gloss over the fact that none of his modernist delusions were accepted by ancient tradition of the Catholic and Orthodox churches which rely on tradition in addition to scripture

>>18297229
>the Catholic and Orthodox churches which rely on tradition in addition to scripture
They are just as woke now.

>>18287854
Hint: No presuppositions are justified, they merely are.

>>18287370
It was a pear

>>18288141
What denomination are these people? Methodists? Baptists? I know there are some pozzed Catholics, but there are rarely entire churches filled with them.

>>18287343
Do any of them provide evidence for a god that doesn't amount to Pascal's Wager or conflating morality on deific dependence?

>>18289345
The Romans murdered jesus and Jesus was a Jew

>>18292422
Zizec’s argument is aesthetically pleasing, which makes it a fine response to TBK. But it’s just as faulty as the “no god, anything goes” type of thinking. Ivan doesn’t reject god because suffering exists, he rejects god because the suffering involved couldn’t justify itself in the name of some greater plan. God might very well have a plan for all the evil he creates, but no plan could make up the evil that does exist. Zizec’s thing just plays into that. It’s not really a response, just a re-telling of the Grand Inquisitor story

>>18288465
>How do I know who’s right?
>1 day late
idk if you will read this but the retard from /pol/ has no clue and I doubt I do either, the one thing I've learned after reading books such as those in OP is that very few people are willing to seriously think and talk about Christianity and religion in general.

All of them and none of them are right. If you could give a label to a proper religious belief it wouldn't be a belief it would be a fact.
Confessions could describe any fanatic's guilt of not being the best follower and having questions and taking so long to find the correct faith.
TBK shows how if you try and follow such a path in real life you're going to have a hard time with obstacles inside and out of your family.

>>18287370
fucking redditor

>>18297682
>
The Pharisees were guilty you lying scum.
The good people of the tribe of Juda followed Jesus and accepted him, the evil people and the Pharisees rejected him and now larp as people of the tribe of Juda.
Go drink some human blood

>>18299139
Sorry I didn’t know that the cross was the instrument of Jewish execution. Spartacus must have also pissed off the Jews too. They’re humans like us trying to do their best. Go follow Jesus and forgive those you hate

>>18299487
That's a false equivalance, prick.
The punishment of the cross was a result of the Pharisees constantly trying to kill Jesus because they were unable to do it themselves because of the celebration of Easter. Pontius himself tried to act as fair as possible and avoid the sentence of death for Jesus, which lead to the Barrabas Jesus situation, once again the Pharisees decided to pick Barrabas to deny the chance of Jesus walking out of there alive.
>“I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “You bear the responsibility.”
>25 All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”
>26 So Pilate released Barabbas to them.
>They’re humans like us trying to do their best. Go follow Jesus and forgive those you hate
Don't speak for God, defending those that deny the Messiah, those that deny God himself.
I call brother all of those that accept Jesus and I will turn my back to those that don't.
Take your cheap rethoric somewhere else

>>18294821
You sound like someone who is trying to repeat a mantra so as to not accidentally consider that he is wrong. Psychologically drown out other people's views so they don't touch your mind.

>>18288351
Or C) Go out onto the ocean and cast a net, you lazy bastard.

>>18288370
Based.

>>18288370
>catherine of siena
Great choice

>>18289315
>Spinoza
>Atheist

>>18299573
How do you accept Jesus when you don't even follow his teachings. Go read the Sermon on the Mount again and know that I am quoting his words and not some cheap rhetoric. Pontius might have attempted to act fairly, but he still made the wrong choice and Rome still executed its messiah.

how can anyone stay larper after reading
>introduction to logic
>a history book
>a brain

daily reminder that Christianity has done more harm than good to Europe

Pascal wager is the belief that you can somehow trick all knowing entity; atheist god will give double hell if I don't believe in it instead;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afQ9zMWR7Ag

Brothers Karamazov isn't really even argument for god, but the discovery that you cannot live without an ontological "founding stone". It simply doesn't follow that this must a god, the author just pulls that out of nothing.

>>18299776
Read Augustine

>>18299811
>It simply doesn't follow that this must a god, the author just pulls that out of nothing.
What else can it be? We see people try to replace it with ideology or identity, and you know how that goes.
A lot of smarter postmodernists know that you need to generate meaning, but it's ineffective if you know you're generating it.

>>18299832
transcendental realism for most people: the belief that there is a objective reality that is independent of my belief about it.

>>18297648
The emergent church. They teach hedonism and blasphemy, not the message of Christ Jesus.

>>18299902
Is that the name of the denomination?

>>18299744
natura naturans is inherently equal to eternal recurrence in itself

>>18287343
How does anyone can believe in God after contemplating on the immense scale of suffering in this world?

>>18299811
That book isn't only the Pascal wager, it's far richer than that, you would know it if you had read it.
>“Pascal, whom I love, has taught me a lot of things. The only logical Christian." –Nietzsche.

>>18300200
This is addressed in the three books, more or less.

>>18300391
I don't need any books to "refute" this reality. It's not up to debate. Suffering is the most real aspect of this world.

>>18300408
C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity writes

>Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself.

this guy became an atheist and came back to christianity later in life

I recommend you check out Mere Christianity

speaking as someone who doesnt currently subscribe to christian beliefs

>>18300200
>How does anyone can believe in God after contemplating on the immense scale of suffering in this world?
That's likely why it's called "blind" faith.
It's easy to believe when everything is good in life.

>>18299757
I'm not falling for that. Your rethoric is cheap and your attempt to get rid of the blame from the Pharisees makes me sick.
You attempt to quote the scriptures, while also ignoring the scriptures clearly says the blood of the Messiah and his death are the fault and responsability of the Pharisees, it could not be more clear that you are a hypocrite. The Romans are not innocent but it was the Pharisees and all those that followed that killed the Lord.
Go on and keep spreading your lies, because your words are nothing more than a trap, and your tongue is that of a snake.

>>18300811
>it's afraid

>>18300826
And your best attempt of a reply is to quote starship troopers?
It's fair to say I'm not amused at all.

>>18290173
>thousands of religions
There are few universalist religions. Most are pre-Christian and relegated to a specific geographical location. Of the few universalist religions, even fewer are monotheistic (reason dictates that polytheism is nonsensical). Thus, rational deduction and reasoning can lead one to the conclusion that Christianity is the one true religion. Judaism fell with the Second Temple. Islam is a perversion of Christianity, and spread itself by the sword. Christianity is very unique. Man did not become God, but God became man. God suffered and died for man. Christ's throne is the cross. Sure you can ignore Christian apologetics, such as the books recommended itt, but that would just be plain ignorance. Ave Maria.

>>18300840
I'm not the guy who you were arguing with, just observing you lost your chill, and fear is underlying your message. God doesn't need defending, so don't be so defensive.

>>18300870
>just observing you lost your chill, and fear is underlying your message. God doesn't need defending, so don't be so defensive.
There is no fear in my words, but what I can assure you is that your observation is wrong.
I will keep defending God and you are also nobody to tell me how to act.
All of this assuming your are not the guy I was discussing with.

>>18287500
based
>>18293147
seethe

>>18295097
Lot was not being painted in a good light, but you seem to be too illiterate to understand that so I'd recommend a children's bible first.

>>18287513
That's just the pentateuch you fucking retard.

>>18301707
IIRC even Jews at that time just thought of that story weird

>>18288440
Remind me, what denomination was C.S. Lewis in again?

>>18290225
I pray for you that your time will come, lest ye end a reprobate.

>>18301731
Have you read this thread?

>>18290225
God isn't that cruel, He has a plan for you and it may or may not involve Christianity

What do y’all think of perennialism or religious pluralism? We’re all praying to the same god right?

>>18302661
Nergal simply is not God.

>>18288122
>>Jewish laws
>esoterically prefigure Jesus Christ, the Logos made flesh
how

>>18296039
What book is this from?

>>18302761
For you yes. If someone is drawn to God or the perennial wisdom through that deity why not?

>>18302661
Yeah sure why not

>>18302661
No

>>18301839
Yes, and you haven't answered my question.

>>18300588
But God is omnipotent and can make utopia and free will coexist.

>>18287796
Yes, it can't just be that cooperating gives a species an advantage in survival. Has to be god.

>>18297269
Catholics yes, but orthodox? I dont think so

>>18299659
Repeating my words isn't an argument against what I said. You look retarded.

>>18300200
Easy
>Problem of evil is a probabilistic argument against God
>I have metaphysical certainty that God exists, is perfectly good, is omnipotent, etc
>a probabilistic argument against X is impotent if another argument can prove X with certainty
So, the problem of evil doesn't bother me in the least

>>18303141
God is omnipotent, good and perfect, so the world was made in the best way possible. It could not be other way. God has plans for all of us, so we don't need to fear, we need to believe in Jesus Christ and have faith. God bless you anon, remember to pray.

>>18287357
Not enough "fulfillment " for your surrogate reading?

>>18288597
If god can only be reached through divine revelation, then what does it matter what I believe? Either God will reveal himself to me or he wont'.... Why do my decisions or my faith or my beliefs have any consequence?