/lit/ - Literature

>>18285823
I'd still recommend Tiddlywiki for the Zettelkasten method. Many use it that way.

It takes some time to look under the hood; it's a Quine that evolves with your use. You can rebuild the entire interface to suit your needs again and again, and the underlying metadata and structures can be as fluid and non-hierarchical as any of the other tools (it really depends on how you choose to use and construct it). TW is reasonably well-suited to programatically shaping your data, but it excels in organically molding itself to your contexts.

There are lots of add-ons for it, including for Spaced Repetition.

TW is also quite capable of organizing your ebooks, pdfs, bookmarks, music, and all your other files. You can arbitrarily organize, construct information around, and open your files from your browser. It's not as snappy as binaries optimized for these tasks in some cases though.

You can build interfaces to control your machine from the command line inside Tiddlywiki (technically, you can build a desktop environment inside of TW), and bi-directional synchronization between the contents of your browser and your underlying file structure is available. Your browser's extensibility also maps onto TW (and almost any extension you can construct in a browser can be built within TW as well).

The tool is far more flexible, customizable, portable, and enduring than most people realize (it's self-hosted software that has stood the test of time too). Somewhat like emacs, it's got a steep learning curve, but you don't have to be a serious programmer to wield it. It is skiddie friendly with plenty of room to grow (I've taught middle schoolers to use it), even if you don't know upfront how you want it to develop (that's actually its strength).

It's not even close to a perfect tool (and being that it uses Javascript and that TW-WASM doesn't exist yet, there are non-trivial performance limitations), but it does way more than PKM. You can build any custom PKM tool with it, and you can integrate it with other kinds of tooling. I consider the word "wiki" in its name to be a misnomer that provides a simplified entrance and intuition pump for getting started with the tool.

>>18285823
Bump. Let's work towards more info for the PasteBin.

>>18285823
I recall one Obsidian user who managed to color-code his notes. If you are reading this, how did you do it? I write my index notes in ALL CAPS for more visibility, but it is still kinda lacking.

For the rest of visitors, the explosion in the right is from Carl Schmitt's "The Concept of the Political": that essay is packed with meaning so hard I think I still failed to mine like a third of possibly useful notes. Gonna have to re-read it at least twice more. 10/10 would recommend.

>>18286889
If you ctrl-F some certain phrases in the last thread I think you can find the setting. Schmitt is a great writer even from the excerptions—gonna follow your lead and get that book. Can you show us how you took notes on that text? Is it all just excerpts and your own commentary tying to one central Schmitt note?

If the guide was constructed in a ZK way - just lightly, as a self-demonstrating example, but keeping the bulk linear -, like the Evergreen page, that could be interesting. Adding some pictures as well

For now, my only suggestion is to make it clear what is the book that explains ZK (Smart Notes).

Another interesting feature to have would be to dissect each type of "craft" and how it relates to these methods.
Language learning, for example, can be mostly memorized through flashcards, but a ZK/Wiki could work when you're getting insight on grammar and want to structure your own knowledge in an organic, easy-to-review manner that only focus on the aspects that interest you. Not to mention to-do lists, with short and medium-term goals.

Also, SRS doesn't limit itself to flashcards. The Supermemo software, however outdated in terms of UI it is, has Spaced EVERYTHING. The creator is a level 99 druid who does everything in his life ruled by his Supermemo scheduling. He reads a book for however many minutes he scheduled it, then it's time to stop and write a summary for 5 minutes. Then the text gets buried for months if it's not a relevant topic, and will only come up later when Supermemo decides it's time.

He warns about emails taking months to get replied, or not being replied at all if he loses interest, because everything is done in little non-linear increments according to his priorities and level of interest.
He doesn't book meetings, travel or anything that could disrupt his autismo-learning life.

His family time is scheduled through Supermemo.

His Guru wiki is a very fun rabbithole, especially when he (rightfully) rants against the school system on long, LONG essays about why it's inefficient and we need to change it.
He should at least invest more into making Supermemo user-friendly for reaching such an ideal goal, but then he goes linuxtardmode with the "just learn it, it's not that complicated" zinger.

It's definitely worth a read, though I'd recommend caution since I've been at it for months, reading a little at a time, since there is so much stuff to process.
https://supermemo.guru/wiki/SuperMemo_Guru

>>18286923
Oh, right, here it is. A most useful way of marking things.
Showing it would be tricky, since I'm keeping the stuff in Russian, even if the text is in English originally or translated. I follow the principle where I reword everything by myself for myself even when the author quotes some other author; instead of just copy-pasting things. However, I will describe my workflow, which is somewhat improvised since I've been zettelkasting for two weeks or so, but I find it satisfactory. Immensely so when compared to the usual class notes I take once, read once before the exam, if at all, and forget forever after, with all linking and remembering subconscious if taking place at all.

>>18286923
>>18287172
Now, the blowball thing you see is a result of my reading an assigned text from the Uni, namely the Concept of the Political. While all my notes are in Russian regardless of the original language, I keep the book titles so I could find them in my library or re-download them easier.
The stem note, as I call it, contains just the bibliographical data - author, translator, year, press etc, again so I could find it in the library or download it easier. Then, unless it is a terminal index note, it links back to its other stems (in this case, it goes to Political Theology to Political Philosophy to just PHILOSOPHY index note) and links forward to all its own notes, which I call nuggets.
I have a note under the FINDINGS index titled "Shannon - Information as surprise" and the text itself "The information content of the message is gauged by how surprising it is for us", 'scuse me for English-Russian-back to English translation.
So a nugget is any bullet info I find surprising. This I list as notes straight into my ZK, or into my special notebook when away from the laptop, as I go on reading the text. Everything is reworded in my own words and translated into Russian regardless of the original language I read it in. Rarely I would have an immediate insight on a link to another note, which I do then and there (or write the link in my notebook if away from laptop). If the linkage is not immediately obvious, I write an idea note linking to both old and new nuggets.

Now, when I'm done, I let it "rest" for at least several hours, preferably a day or so. Next day I re-read the new notes, and make new connections if any are obvious. Also I just skim the ZK - currently it is small enough for me to recall the note's content just from its name and links. Weeks later I'll have to read them, if their name and linkage attract my interest, and work from there, just like exploring some wiki site.

So I read the book two days ago, and currently it has 3 outlinks to other parts of the ZK (some Russian conservative political philosophy from early XX century, the concept of Sobornost from the Russian religious philosophy, a modern Russian philosopher-blogger-writer and my 2 newly minted ideas on a criteria for a state's sovereignty and the natural of communist regimes). I expect more from re-reading and, most importantly, new books and lecture notes added into the ZK. So far the ZK gave me an essay topic and info, an orientation for another related essay and, I think, maybe even a basis for my next year's thesis, be merely existing and being fed a little with notes every day.

>>18287302
Here's a translation of a random note I took from a lecture two days ago.

Title: Irreligious State is Banditry
(Professor's name): if a state is separated from the Church, what right does it have to exist? Without the Church it is merely a band of robbers; unless it has a religious substitute (eg. communism, progressivism, humanism and human rights etc).
-
Notably Augustine's influence, read on it later
-
Stem (indexing): Political Theology
-
Keys (other regular notes link to it): Communism as a religion, Political in Russian religious philosophy, Ecologism as a new ideology for the West.

Since I'll probably forget the context in a week or so ("to exist" as in use violent force to extract taxes and enforce rules), I hope to recall it from the stem note of Political Theology and the titles linked to it.

>>18287172
>>18287302
>>18287424
Interesting style—it seems like a lot of integration but good payoff overall. I can see how this helps school specifically. Russian universities seem a lot more enthusing than American ones. Good luck and God bless on your thesis and future work, Anon—thanks for showing us.

>>18286932
Supermemo incremental reading looks interesting but unfortunately Supermemo is only available for windows.

>>18287172
>>18287302
>in Russian
Interesting topic to discuss: what language to take notes in.

I speak Portuguese, but for now I've decided to keep all my notes in English. The reason being that most technical vocabulary is in English, and writing in Portuguese would generate a lot of foreign terms being used inconsistently. A mix of English and Portuguese notes is also not good because they might touch on similar topics, but if one is tagged as "filosofia" and the other "philosophy", searching and keeping track of tags becomes hell.
My /b/ folder has pictures in both languages, a lot of non-verbal ones, and then you have English pics with Portuguese filenames, Portuguese pics with English filenames, English pics inside Portuguese-named folders, or maybe folder categories where some are named in PT, some in EN. It is a mini-nightmare that serves as a cautionary tale for myself, now that the ZK will be mostly word-based.

An anon recommended in a previous thread to keep all topics in a single collection (no matter if fiction or not), but different languages could be kept on different collections. That would make the non-default languages limited in scope, but maybe more useful.

I have started making book-summary notes and when I start doing that for literature in Portuguese, I wonder what the fuck I'm going to do... maybe just keep quotations and proper nouns in the original language.

>>18287704
It's probably okay as long as you use sufficient backlinks. Maybe you could have a "PT" or "POR" (not sure which it is) abbreviation on your Portuguese notes. I'm not sure why you would tag the same topic in different languages though.

>>18287704
Oh yes, the lazy schoolboy's Russian cursive. It says "C1. The functions of the state in the market (economy) conditions: defining the legal foundations, regulating the economical behaviour and producing (certain) wares and services."
I'm too lazy to translate further, nervous middle school and/or very dim high school students (the present case, it's the unified state exam) write like that.

>but different languages could be kept on different collections. That would make the non-default languages limited in scope, but maybe more useful.
That would also limit the usefulness of ZK, since the more notes you have the more sensible links are available. As of today I've learned to colour-code notes by tags, maybe you'd find taging useful for consistency in tracking things. So all tags are in PT or EN regardless of the note text, perhaps.

Even though 95% of what I read is in English originally or English translations (the Soviet Union isolation and harassment of scientists made many translations from that time lacking or plain abysmal), I find that forcing me to translate the nugget into Russian makes it stick more, and also signalizes its importance.

Alright then lads, I'm sold. I've been missing out all along, and I'm ready to embrace the superior.

One problem though, I rarely carry my laptop outside, but I do most of my note-taking for ideas and thoughts on the go, and often spend the most time forming and deliberating on them on the move as well. Any ZK software solutions for phones (Android)? Preferably something cross-platform with Windows, and with sync capabilities (Wired or wireless)? And more preferably something with importing capabilities.

Also, what and why exactly is the difference in use case between ZK and PW? I'm planning on switching over to ZK for personal ideas and thoughts that I currently keep in basic folders and subfolders (Mostly creative ideas and thoughts, some business ideas/plans, and general life shit), but I really am curious as to how far I can push it.
I want start to making a habit of self-reflection, identifying goals and quantifying plans, as well as journaling, and I'm thinking it might be really interesting to note them down in my ZK as well. Maybe even integrating project notes and plans/to-dos in my ZK. Pretty much my whole life, but I don't know how any of that would play out really as I don't have a deep enough understanding or experience. What do you think? Will I be doing myself a disfavour?

>>18288062
Obsidian's getting a mobile app in a few weeks; they also have a Sync capability (that you may have to pay for, but it's well worth IMO. You can also probably convert it to something else with sync that's free since it's all dissociated Markdown files). Someone else will have to answer your questions about ZK and PW since I'm not a strict adherent to either.

>>18286889
Do you think it's best to split up notes on the same book by default, where it's warranted, or is that not a necessity and only your personal preference? I've been putting them all together but sometimes it goes to several pages-length.

>>18286932
My god this is time cube shit but with learning. Is this what I sound like to my friends? His writing style reminds me quite a bit of richard stallman. I can't stop reading it.

>>18288089
Not him, but some notes will become hubs for other notes.
Not even the original ZK had a perfect "atomic info only" structure.

I for one think concepts can and should be unified under a single page if they all steam from the same event. But be BRIEF, as if making a quick guide on the contents, and if you want to elaborate on a concept itself, not its belonging on the greater structure (of a book, for instance), make a new note for it. There you will be able to write about it in isolation, for what it truly "means", and even link it to other works or concepts that do not steam from the book. That's how you build new paths.

>>18288094
Everyone who gets really deep and hinged on a certain kind of PW sounds like that haha.

>>18288112
That makes sense. Some pages are already becoming heavily backlinked, so I think it's up to me to grow any atomic structures if I choose.

>>18288089
I split everything, preferably into bullet point style. Like in >>18287424
Some of my notes have up to three bullet-points, but they must be really closely related to stay in one note, so that missing it would prevent its later understanding.
The idea is to make it easily linkable, so it could cohere with other applicable notes as much as possible, while not turning into a wiki article.
Now, one may have proper texts, not just two or three sentences. I think this is fine if the idea needs to be developed to fruition. But then again, that's just me. Try it out and see for yourself if you are satisfied with the short-style notes like 3 days after you write them - you can just merge them later into bigger notes if necessary.

Since the ZK is made by you for you, go with your gut feeling. I trust that anyone can personalize it enough while still under a hundred notes or so, while it is still manageable to totally convert into something else. I don't think somebody can fuck it up beyond repair or a fix.

>>18288419
Thank you! I'll try to strike an average that makes it readable.

>>18288447
Just go with the flow, it is your ZK. If you feel comfortable with large notes, write large notes, especially if its is your own thoughts.
Mine is heavily geared for academic work and collecting points from texts and lectures, so the end goal defines the means.

My shortest note yet is:
Schmitt quoting Hobbes: "Autoritas, non Veritas Facit Legem".
That's a point from the Hobbesian diamond, and that's all. With an origin link to Schmitt's "Political Theology", and will have links to Hobbes when I properly get back to him; probably I will replace it with the whole diamond rundown. The largest one is picrel, 436 symbols.
One is a bit larger, but has 4 links and one "check in Palamism later" comment baked in, so less of a proper note text.

>>18288570
My longest note is 23336 characters; I imported it from Google Docs where it was eight pages. In spite of its length, I feel I have high retention on that note and even if I tag it in other notes to reference something in the midst of it, I still understand the link. Not sure if this is excessive but I'm encouraged to keep going on this way, even if it's counterintuitive to how most people do it.

bump 1

>>18289358
It usually takes off later, I think. There isn't much to discuss constantly though. It may be better as an end-of-week thing.

Opinions on Scrivener?

I feel like its biggest selling points are the compilation system, built-in templates, and having everything in one easy-to-use application.

Otherwise it seems like most of the functionality can be substituted with a few programs.

>writing/editing
vim, emacs, Notepad++, LibreOffice, basically anything
>multi-format exporting with templates
pandoc
>compilation
coreutils/binutils e.g. cat, bash, sed, echo
>corkboard
PureRef, FreeMind, Inkscape, etc.
>reference material
your favorite file browser, image viewer, document viewer, etc.

I feel like someone with even limited technical ability could throw something together in an afternoon or two. Instead of the Binder, you'd just use your OS's filesystem. You'd have a root project folder that is equivalent to the Manuscript/Draft or whatever, and then subfolders would be Chapters, and then text files would be the Sections. Reordering things wouldn't be as elegant, but it could be done somehow.

If you want to reorder 1, 2, 3 as 2, 3, 1 without running into naming conflicts, then you could just pick three new numbers. e.g. 1, 2, 3 = 4,5,6 -> 5,6,4, then you could rename 5,6,4 to 1,2,3

It's a round-about way to do it, but it works.

>>18289394
i had some more thoughts chunking and working memory as well as some other thoughts (not as well developed) on time management. i might post them later today or on the weekend if there's any interest.

>>18289472
I tried to use Scrivener to worldbuild a Visual Novel and it sucked, I ended up going back to Notepad++. TiddlyWiki worked better, but I still prefered Notepad++ at the end of the day.

Now I'm trying Obsidian but in a much looser way, knowing these are notes that should be polished into a linear-format text later on.

I use PureRef for drawing but not for keeping collections, I just delete the panel after I'm done. Folders with files (or tagging software) seem to work better in this case, although I avoid them because I'm autistic and knowing I can't move files around without losing track of tags cripples me.

Should I stop giving ####Titles to my pages if the note is already named the same thing?
It feels empty without, but redundant with one.

>>18289628
Have you done much research into typography and how it effects the reader? It’s pretty neat stuff. I think a big title sends a good message.

>>18289539
If you are who I think you are, you're basically holding these threads together. That topic especially is of interest to me.

>>18289642
Explain this, Anon.

>>18289539
sure

>>18289681
haha, i think he's who you think he. ericsonchad!!!!

>>18289722
Ericssonchad using his ten-thousand Ericssonhours to become a master of Ericsson.

>>18289642
I agree, guess I'll keep doing it, might even be good to reaffirm things.

Just started.
I'm just making a bunch of standalone notes (5 so far), in hopes that I can connect them once my pool grows bigger.
That's normal, right?

This note is from this thread, link is https://notes.andymatuschak.org/z7yRMBXGc81KkUwLxefodzfnnfKXx63vXzP88

>>18289681
Well, just as we use rhetoric to convince people of things or make them feel a certain way or take a certain action, we have visual rhetoric too. It's the whole McLuhan "the medium is the message" kind of deal, but focusing in on the methodology of the medium itself. I'm always reminded of that scene from futurama where the space god says "when you do things right, no one will know you've done anything at all". The simplest example is a Music Venue poster. A good poster will instantly give you all the information about where the show is, who's playing the show, what time the show is at, what kind of show it is, how much the show will cost, all at a glance. The artistic merits of a poster like that should be used to emphasize the venue and band's aesthetics, not necessarily be the main focal point of a poster like that. But you see so many posters around town and online where the information is hard to understand. Who's playing? Do I have to pay? Is that AM or PM? Where even is that? etc.

That's a big picture example, but when you get into the specifics of a document, the font, it's spacing, the margins, the kerning, the leading, the positioning of chunks of text, titles, order, etc. all of those things total up to a users end experience. What does a document in 12pt font, times new roman, with one inch margins, half inch tabs, and not change to any other spacing tell you? What does that make you feel? Now take the same document, add automatic kerning, make the margins 1.5, change the font to another san serf like Book Antiqua, make it size 10, adjust the spacing. What does that document tell you? How does it make you feel? How much faster can you read and understand it? Does it have breathing room now? Can you identify the titles? Does it feel more clean and simple and easier to tackle? Do your motivational reserves stay fresh because it's less difficult to struggle through something you didn't want to read in the first place? Are things that are bolded or italicized easier to see as signifiers of importance in this new layout?

All these things should go into the crafting of a document. It doesn't matter what document. You have read books that are known to be awesome but the way the publishers made the layout it was unbearable. You've probably read some shitty books that were a delight to read because of the paper and printing quality mixed with good page design and layout.

But they are things you aren't supposed to notice when you indulge in the text itself. When it is good, it enhances the experience and subliminally effects the reader. What do you think the font lobster tells an audience? What do you think red text tells the audience?

Anyway, fun stuff.

>>18289782
Here’s a picture as an example from a legal typography book I reread recently. Both have the same content, but one is just flat out easier to jump into and quickly get to the information you want. It was a fun read. I hadn’t really kept up with my graphic design roots since law school.

>>18289782
>>18289810
Very thorough, Anon. Good formatting helps me a lot for sure. This just doubles the importance of it to me. I took a graphic design class in high school, but not much more; I've always found people knowledgable in it interesting though.

>>18289722
>>18289742
His impassivity is truly impressive. He gets posted on >>>/x/ and accused of literal magic and doesn't even utter a word on it.

>>18289810
Left is what I would make (and want in a legal document), but right is so much comfier, looks like a nice book I'd read.

>>18289810
>>18289875
On the other hand, look at this utter garbage.
I bought a vertical monitor so I could read, yet lots of websites have this niggerbastard layout that "adapts" to your screen resolution in percentages, so no matter how thin, it will always try to force 3 columns.

Wattpad (site for writers) is even worse; no matter how much space you have available, the story you're reading will occupy a miserable strip in the center with 10 words per line at best.

I have genuinely given up on publishing there solely for that reason, and I hope mobile users burn in hell for forcing the Internet to become this Fisher-Pricefied.

>>18289917
Actually, this gave me a thought I will research about later.

>>18290069
IIRC it’s “faster” to read short columns because there’s less a chance that they eye misses the jump to the next line. For us “experienced” readers, we hate it because the jump to a next line is more exhausting than continuing a line. This is why I can’t stand reading the Bible. It’s exhausting to read quickly. I also presume there was a reason with how printing machines used to work.

But there’s a certain width of text where it’s just too cumbersome to read. When was the last time you saw a book actually printed like an essay is on 8.5/11? Even textbooks normally make it two column or put in pictures or margins with definitions.

>>18290253
Yes, sometimes people post screenshots of 4chan posts and they're a bother to read, because my screen is too small to read comfortably and I have to scroll horizontally or deal with tiny fonts.
Sometimes it's a one-liner, but the line is 4k wide because whoever screenshot it is probably using his TV as a monitor.

Yet newspapers and the blog I posted above often go overboard with how short lines are, even if they're trying to appeal to phoneshitters.
Pic related is the same post on my regular monitor and on my vertical monitor. I use 140% zoom for a big, comfortable font. Sometimes on lengthy, wallful discussions the horizontal one becomes tiresome and I switch to the vertical one.

>>18290360
On the "Miura dead" discussion threads, some retarded gorilla posted not one, but THREE of pic related screenshots.

>>18290366
This is how the same text looks like on another popular screenshot circulating. The picture is too wide, but the text in itself is not, so it's way more comfortable and efficient.

What can I use to give some structure to notes in google docs?
Currently I have a few different documents, and within them they are only organized by headings

>>18291145
You can make folders in Google drive and I bet you could hyperlink the notes together.

How to I make the graph connections bolder?
This shit is almost invisible.

I'm also baffled by the fact they chose markup as the formatting language for "ease of use" while the help pages for the program read like complete gibberish to someone not used to tinkering with any sort of code.

It's like having training wheels attached to a dragon.

>>18291868
In obsidian When in graph view, open the little settings thing in the top left corner. Open the display section and there's a slider for line thickness.

>>18291882
Thank you, found it. I might have to turn up my monitor's brightness, even the options button was dim.

>>18291868
It really needs some more versatility. After a while using it, I can get most formatting I want out of it, but it's not comfy at all. Way too sleek—we should have the chance for rich text if we want too.

>>18288062
>Also, what and why exactly is the difference in use case between ZK and PW? I'm planning on switching over to ZK for personal ideas and thoughts that I currently keep in basic folders and subfolders (Mostly creative ideas and thoughts, some business ideas/plans, and general life shit), but I really am curious as to how far I can push it.
>I want start to making a habit of self-reflection, identifying goals and quantifying plans, as well as journaling, and I'm thinking it might be really interesting to note them down in my ZK as well. Maybe even integrating project notes and plans/to-dos in my ZK. Pretty much my whole life, but I don't know how any of that would play out really as I don't have a deep enough understanding or experience. What do you think? Will I be doing myself a disfavour?
Bump, I'm also very lost and curious as to the difference and applications between ZK and PW.

How often do you guys use tags?
so far I've been just making pages filling them with notes and linking them to relevant pages

>>18292324
I don't use tags, personally. Just backlinks.

Thanks for posting, OP and anons. I have recently been getting frustrated at myself for not being able to retain information after reading books. Anki helps, but I don't want to do flashcards for every single topic I come across in a book (as a side note, Anki is very useful for learning Spanish).

I will look into the tidllywiki/zettelkasten method. This looks good.

I'm doing something like this but with file cabinets and a typewriter. I don't trust computers they die all the time on me and I prefer to hold things in my hand. Easier and quicker to look for what I want

>>18292499
The old school Luhmann approach, nice. Let us know how it turns out over the following threads, anon.

>>18292507
I've been doing it for a while now. I started doing it because I have severe ADHD but it's really comfy. I have folders for every area of interest, History, philosophy, music, geography etc. Even folders down to extremely specifics things like tax policy and then I place articles I find, photos, ideas I have, to do lists etc. The only problem though is because like I said I have severe ADHD so I don't often have the willpower to go back into the folders. It sort of just becomes my brain in the corner that I don't deal with. Once something goes into the folder it deletes itself from my mind and I never think about it again. I have a folder with hundreds of great ideas for novels and films.

>>18292549
Reminds me of a guy mentioned in Moonwalking with Einstein, Gordon Bell who keeps a record of everything he does. Constantly has camera recording his life around his neck and has been doing so for a decade and more. If I recall correctly, the guy is different from you though in that he wants to save everything so he scans everything physical thing he has from images to written papers to notes into a lifelog. Had something like over 100,000 files or so. He even uses it to find things he's forgotten about since it records everything he's said and done.

>>18292656
Other than just the topics that interest me like economics or whatever I have a deep need to archive the lives of people. I don't know what it is but I get bad anxiety if I don't. I don't know why. It's like I'm going to lose all these interesting people into the abyss if I don't save them. Down to reading old archive.org papers from the 1920's to save sentences about someone. I spend hundreds of dollars on old family photographs

Are there any templates for legal stuff or generally more templates for tiddly?

>>18292384
Even better for Japanese. Basically essential for Kanji.

>>18292384
What do you add to anki from your reading? Just important sentences? Do you break them into stanzas? I feel like only re-reading sentences is passive review. Writing propositions an author makes in my own words gives confidence I'm understanding what I read.

>>18289539
Interested anon. Your posts on the last thread were very insightful.

>>18292224
It's in the FAQ. PWs are structured and thorough, ZK is organic and focuses on connections, not so much in organization.
A mix of both is probably the sweet spot.

You can use the software for your daily to-do lists and stuff like that, but then you should delete (or at least archive out of sight) stuff that is already complete. Think like this: you don't get any benefit from saving your shopping lists. But any insight generated from doing these things can become a valuable note.

Read the Smart Notes book if you can, you'll understand more about the method.

>>18292324
I put 2~3 tags but they are only helpful for reminding you on what situations that information might be useful. Since making unexpected connections is part of the process, tags won't do that.

>>18289596
>I tried to use Scrivener to worldbuild a Visual Novel and it sucked
Are you me? I'm literally doing the exact same thing.
The only thing I liked about Scriviner is that it keeps reference material easily within reach. My Visual Novel takes place far into the future with a lot of sci-fi elements that I'd like to be grounded in reality and being able to save PDFs with scientific papers and quickly read them was amazing for me. Is there any other story building software similar to Scriviner that can mimic this behaviour?

>>18294049
I won't argue against the benefits of being able to do everything in one application, because I understand why someone would find that appealing, but upon closer inspection, if you're moving from one area of the application to another (from the editor to the PDF viewer) isn't that the same as just Alt+Tab'ing to a dedicated PDF viewer? Or even just splitting your monitor into two regions? I'm merely asking if this feature actually has the merits being assigned to it.

>>18294101
>if you're moving from one area of the application to another (from the editor to the PDF viewer) isn't that the same as just Alt+Tab'ing to a dedicated PDF viewer?
The difference is as you described, having it all in one application means I don't have to hunt down a specific PDF in file manager because I can't remember the name of it or where I stored it.
Usually when I'm writing something in Scriviner that's using a sci-fi element I don't have a great understanding of, I place the PDF of a paper describing those sci-fi elements right under the page in the left tab section. If I take a break for a month and then come back to it, the page and the pdf are conveniently within reach and it's much easier to restart working.

>>18294149
why not just place a symlink/shortcut to the PDF in your project folder?
Scrivener just seems a bit "a solution in search of a problem" to me

*chugs onions*

>>18294196
because Scriviner has all the bells and whistles of a story manager/world builder attached to the convenience of having reference material easily accessible to what I'm working on at the moment. Having shortcuts doesn't solve the problem of having to dig through a file system because I'm still looking through a file system.

>>18294236
But to get it into Scrivener in the first place you've got to look through the file system?

>>18294248
macfag, I cmd+space and type the name of my project (the only name I have to remember), it opens and I have everything right there. I'm sure you can do the same thing in windows.

>>18294255
Right, but to have "everything right there", you had to at some point use the filesystem, no? i.e. importing/linking your PDF into your Scrivener project.

>>18294276
nigger at this point you're arguing for the sake of arguing.
If you consider dropping a PDF into a Scriviner project as using the "filesystem" then yeah sure I use the file system every now and then.

macfags should look into bear and Devonthink. 2 really great looking note apps

>>18294304
Well, no, I don't think asking a question is arguing, but instead seeking clarification. However this reply is argumentative, I would say.

Anyways, if one wants to keep the files of a project in a central location, there are other ways of doing it that are just as simple as Scrivener. That was what you were being asked to defend and you failed. Have a good day.

>Trilium
learned about this a few days ago thanks to these threads
pretty cool so far
just when i think it's missing a feature, i find it's already there

>>18294359
>That was what you were being asked to defend and you failed. Have a good day.
man what a dunk, how will I ever recover?

>>18294371
It lacks fuzzy search, though.

On the previous thread, anon proposed we made a note on "Love" for a little comparative session.

Here is mine, I only have 11 notes so far so I can't link that much stuff yet.
My notes have (mostly) no sources because I have lots of formed opinions, but I think it's good to have these snapshotted like this so I can confront them whenever I come upon contradictory information.

>>18294049
>Are you me?
Yes, but without meds. I am struggling with the fact that I'm writing it in 3 languages at the same time (prioritizing one depending on relevance to the section), this is complete hell.

>>18294371
Compared to Obsidian, how is it? Better? Worse?

>>18294456
My note-taking process is supposedly a lot less involved than everyone else's, but this is also a topic instead of a tightly-knit and/or personal thing I would utilize cross-references to.

>>18294627
More personal inclusion that I didn't make at first, utilizing backlinks since I've laid the foundations for this topic already. Not sure if this style is too loose or if there's something to be done; apart from this I'm pretty footnote heavy, but not much else.

>>18288570
Anon, if you're going to read about Palamism, I recommend these blogs to start. Very learned individual writing earnestly.

>https://sensuscatholicus.jimdofree.com/2021/04/18/breathing-with-both-lungs-a-spiritual-phenomenology-of-eastern-western-christianity-1/
>https://sensuscatholicus.jimdofree.com/2021/05/01/breathing-with-both-lungs-a-spiritual-phenomenology-of-eastern-western-christianity-2/

He's also been recently posting to Substack; not sure if he's going to move there or not.

>https://sensuscatholicus.substack.com/

>>18294713
Also, if I'm opening myself up to criticism—the tagged notes are actually of varied subject matter. The first one is only tagged with reference to the title; the second one is tagged for a footnote; and the third one is tagged for something in the midst of its topic as well.

>>18294627
>Compared to Obsidian, how is it? Better? Worse?
Never used Obsidian, I thought it was something else tbpqhwy, but now that I'm looking at the webpage and reading about it, I'm going to download it and give it a try. Looks like it may be better, we'll see!

anyone use simple pen asd paper? bullet journals are cringe. but the idea of disordered content being organized by an index seems pretty smart

So I've bought into the /lit/ meme and purchased 'How to read a book' and 'How to take smart notes' but now I'm feeling at an impasse because the skills described in one will be useful in reading/noting the other... Does anyone have strong views on a preferred order? Or interleave? Or the dreaded re-read?

I've started on 'how to read' as it arrived first, enjoying it so far but now curios if my notes as is are 'good'. May be entirely overthiking it...

>>18295073
It's over for you. I'm sorry, the paralytic regress you have is unresolvable.

>>18294895
i've been experimenting for about an hour
my impression is that Obsidian is miles better than Trilium
i'm moving everything into Obsidian right now lol
to anyone on the fence, use Trilium, get frustrated, then realize Obsidian does it better, and in some cases, Trilium can't even do it at all
i'll still be watching Trilium's career with great interest though

anybody setup their Vault to use file encryption on Windows 10?
what route did you take?

>>18293149
Do you mean templates for motions and pleadings or do you mean briefs and memos?

>>18295073
It really depends on what you struggle with the most?
>staying focused
>keeping habits
>understanding content
>remembering
>taking notes

>>18295280
Trilium takes the structured route, hence with the infinite nestable notes, different note modes. Obsidian is quite good for short notes, interconnecting them between each other. It comes to personal style, desu.

>>18295140
reeeee, guess I'll never learn how to read or write for the rest of my days.
Calling it an impasse was indeed a stretch though, just the old mental game of focusing too much on "being efficient" as an excuse to not start. Cracking on with Smart Notes now given how tiny it is, good rec. so far /pkmg/ anons.
>>18295296
Honestly I don't really struggle with any of them but I do dislike the process of note taking despite knowing the value of 'em. Mebe daddy Luhmann's system will help me find the joy in writing...

>>18295319
Yeah. I’d suggest smart notes then. One of the things that blew my mind after reading it was the bit about self contained context regarding notes. Like, the quality of the writing of a given note. I found my old notes and I had no fucking clue what they were about. It took 3 years to learn that lesson. Anyway. Yeah, the writing is thinking thing is pretty great.

>>18289539

last thread i talked a little about the connection between chunking and short term memory. there, i was looking at it in terms of expert performance wherein the expert and the novice are subject to the same constraints of short term memory: they can only work with 1+-2 chunks of information at a time. the difference between the novice and expert lies in the degree to which they've abstracted their knowledge; not all chunks are made equal.

a natural next question is: how do you actually chunk information? beyond the obvious (get restful sleep; take naps; diet and exercise) i think that the short term memory constraints already suggests an answer, namely, we should seek to break abstract knowledge into chunks of 1+-2, as this is exactly the amount of information we can comfortably hold in memory. as in previous posts some examples will, i hope, clarify the point.

example 1: suppose you want to chunk jensen's inequality. for simplicity's sake we'll consider the two-dimensional version, keeping in mind that a generalization to n-dimensions represents a separate chunk. the inequality is as follows:
$$\rho(tx_1 + (1-t)x_2) \le t\rho(x_1) + (1-t)\rho(x_2)$$

to chunk this we first consider the two sides of the equation, the left side we can chunk as the part of a convex function bounded by two points and the right as the secant line above the function which connects the two points. we can further break the left side into three parts, $\rho, tx_1, (1-t)x_2$, and the right into two parts, $t\rho(x_1), (1-t)\rho(x_2)$ (and if necessary to break each of these parts into further chunks).

example 2: suppose you wanted to chunk pic related, a simple diagram of flavor pairings in cooking. you can split the diagram into a pair of three and two, say, spice, sweet and sour vs. umami and bitter. then for each pair learn the pairings of their elements (which, note, are not more than three).

example 3: suppose you wanted to chunk the noble eightfold path described in the pali canon. in fact, the buddha, probably understanding this process of chunking, has already created abstractions for you. the eight folds are grouped into a triplet, panna (wisdom) encompassing right view and right resolve, sila (virtue) encompassing right action, right speech and right livelihood and samadhi (absorption) encompassing right mindfulness, right concentration and right effort.

1/2

this process of decomposition (and recomposition) is exactly what i was talking about earlier with my "write-and-burn" note taking, but now i've introduced some bounds on how many elements there should be per abstraction layer. if we go further and admit that chunking is mostly a process of memorization, and if we go even further than that and try to force a conceptual connection between this process and, say, a recursive graph representation of the brain where the nodes of the graph, representing chunks, are themselves smaller graphs (but not ad infinitum), then we can come up with a simple scheme for how to chunk:
1. break/group knowledge into chunks of 1+-2
2. memorize by connection or repetition

the last point requires some further discussion. repetition is an obvious method and, keeping in mind the spacing effect, can be a very efficient (albeit blunt) tool for acquiring chunks. connection requires more finesse. in the above examples the chunks were grouped based on some kind of categorical property or association to make them easier to recall. these can be dependent on visualizations (as in the first example) or properties of language (as in the second and third). note however that the 1+-2 "rule" is observed even for elaborate mnemonics like PEMDAS or the method of loci in which the information is encoded in pairs--again based either on language or on visualizations. it would be interesting to see if this applies to even physical tasks, martial arts kata, for example, or playing a violin.

there is more to say on this topic but i'll leave that for a future post.

>>18295303
depends on what you mean by style
trilium has major technical shortcomings
feel free to counter these points or don't
>is poor at handling different kinds of media
>embeds images in a sqlite database as binary blobs
>when you import an image, it creates an image resource inside of the database and you can find it in a search, but it does not appear in the filesystem pane (in other words, there's no way to browse these images directly)
>editing markdown and rendering it correctly does not exist, but strangely you can edit the html that the wysiwyg editor produces
>it kind of accepts markdown but then doesn't?
>creating internal links requires typing a word, highlighting it, and then searching for a note (compare to simply typing [[ in Obsidian and getting an autocomplete window)
>search is broken
>theme changes require restart
>if you create a [[Link to Article that doesn't exist]] obsidian will create it for you when you click the link. does not exist in Trilium
and i could easily make another list of this size
i liked the time i spent in Trilium, tho

>>18295397
>>18295390
I suppose this is why all the productivity people, GTD guy, learning to learn lady, 20 hours guy all recommend “breaking it down to its simplest concepts and then actively practicing those in a variety of ways”
Like when I was learning how to play plastic love it took me a few weeks to get comfortable with the barred G9 chord. It had been a while since I’d felt so finger retarded. I knew how to incorporate a new chord. How to experiment with it. How to practice it, but at its lowest level it was still difficult, even though I had already abstracted for the most part the whole process from learning a variety of other chords. After that I already knew how to play and sing at the same time and all that.

But now all my projects are these overwhelming legal processes and my only experience is taking orders from someone on a very small part of a given project. I’m having to relearn how to chunk. And it spikes my anxiety and then I don’t want to do it.

>>18295281
brief and memos. I've got my pleadings covered :)

>>18295514
Here u go

>>18295624
man, thank you so much for this. This will help me for my future :) kinda got into this tiddly thing and thought that it'd be great to organize my learning materials :) thanks again ^^

>>18295636
The memo is for when you are another lawyers bitch and they ask you to research an issue for a case they are working on.

The case brief is for actual school or research as a way to extract the key points of information from some of the most poorly written complicated writing ever to grace itself upon the world.

Good luck anon, if you have any other questions, lmk.

>>18295280
Glad I bought into Obsidian then, lol.

Interested in this. I was just having a crisis the other day because I realized I'm not organizing my thoughts and a lot of them are being lost to memory or simply dusting away in my mind so I looked up some notebooks to buy. I'll probably buy it this weekend, but for the meantime I started writing on my phones notepad as a temporary solution and I feel so much more confident in the solidity of my ideas. Hopefully a physical notebook will help me consolidate a new thought mapping system for me. Thanks for reading my blog post.

>>18295718
I had this issue in 10th grade and started manically writing everything I saw, did and learned into my notes app. Most of it is useless minutiae and I disagree with myself on much of what I wrote, but I am glad I started taking notes. Only now since these threads have I been able to maintain stronger notes with a pulse to them.

>>18295733
I remember this kid in highschool who would always carry around a stack of notebooks where he would constantly write things down. He would always get them taken away by the admins because he would also draw naked anime girls right next to his physics notes. A decade later I got drunk with him. Fun times.

>>18295801
Heroic

>>18295451
>I’m having to relearn how to chunk. And it spikes my anxiety and then I don’t want to do it.
i hope to address issues like these (familiar to me as well) in my post on time management.

Thoughts on guerrilla ontology? I thought it was an interesting concept. Basically getting information from all sorts of sources and mediums and forcing yourself to view things from different and ever changing perspectives. Challenging your mental status quo constantly and always adapting new ideas and thoughts to your framework. It also helps approach problems in new creative lights

>>18295932
Sounds like psychosis honestly. After a while you'll realize there's only one thing to learn.

>>18295073
Just start doing anything. Compound interest is key, give it a single try or like 3 minutes worth of time. You don't like it - stop, resume later at will, you like it - keep going.
This is not heavy lifting, it is not like you could fuck up a spine or a knee doing it.

>>18295932
>>18296090
Oh, yeah, RAW—I knew it.

>>18295932
This ain't ontology, this sounds like self-induced paranoial schizophrenia. Ontology is a study of what it is and what it means to be, the 20 century attempt at metaphysics.

If you have to actually force yourself, you are doing something wrong. What purpose does this hoarding serve?

>>18295073
you really did get memed lmfao. how to read a book? seriously ?

>>18285823
started using Obsidian. I feel dumb that I didn't try harder to find something like this sooner.
It's very fun.

>>18295801
>draw naked anime girls right next to his physics notes
i hate power tripping school officials
fuck those people

>>18296542
The same administration that went on a witch hunt when they found our secret forum with a proxy where we talked about how shitty our graphic design teachers were and how fat our one friends girlfriend was. That's how I learned what a ambulocetus is.

>>18296676
>how fat our one friends girlfriend was. That's how I learned what a ambulocetus is.
lmao

>>18295664
thanks a lot, you are very helpful. But I am not an American or British law student ^^ I am a German one :) but you helped me in structuring my legal assessment structuring. I hate all that online stuff as I loved to have lose note sheets all over the place but with your structuring / general idea how to structure it I am now feeding all those notes into this tiddyl :) Side question but do you do your assessments like we do?

>>18297024
Law school in America is a power hungry professor abusing students with over 200 year old case law, only to give one singular final exam covering modern black letter rules. We don't really study statutes (even though everything has been promulgated and codified at this point) and we don't practice our motions or pleadings because the whole thing is structured around how best to not prepare students for the real world.

Can we some pictures of your guys battlestations?

>>18297073
I've got the feeling that your system of teaching the law is more based on a money printing machine than producing actual lawyers with a toolbox ready to tackle on the real world.

>>18297089
Mine almost died from drowning in tea, and is drying now. Really hope I didn't drown my ZK with it.
Note to self: inquire into mini - PCs with detachable periferals, and make copies of my vault.

>>18297168
I got to backup my physical notes probably by taking pictures of everything but it's going to take like 8 hours so I'm putting it off

What are some cool books I can read on the topic?

>>18297197
Check the pastebin

>>18297205
Those books aren't really cool no disrespect

>>18297168
>>18297185
encryption + cloud storage

Why is this getting so popular? Subreddit was made 4 days ago and already has 700 subs. Where did it get popular originally?

>>18292721
>I don't know what it is but I get bad anxiety if I don't. I don't know why. It's like I'm going to lose all these interesting people into the abyss if I don't save them.
Have you been checked for OCD? Not memeing you.

>>18297314
I think the ZK method was getting some traction last year. There's a fairly active subreddit and "the archive" forum.

>>18296676
>they found our secret forum with a proxy
How the hell did they find that, and why is it any of their business?

>>18297222
If you're just wanting to get started, there's actually not a lot you need to learn. And it's very likely that you will stumble upon the patterns yourself anyways.

Download Obsidian and create a new Note. Think of a topic that interests you and write down everything you think you know about it. Try to be as detailed as possible. If it's about computers, for example, start with the basics of information theory and describe how a computer works physically. Use whatever analogies you need to get your point across. For computers, light bulbs and light switches are commonly used to describe circuits.

At some point you will realize you can't proceed in an accurate, satisfying way. So read until you can. That becomes your notes. And if you're actively trying to think and reason about what you're writing, then you are also learning. You're putting the Feynman Technique into practice.

The End.

Epilogue:

Of course, if you just want to do a brain dump on random subjects or the events of your day, then that is fine. Simply catalog as much about the subject as you can remember. For example, don't just list what you had for dinner. Create a new Note and describe how you obtained the ingredients, prepared them, etc. Try to make connections to things. e.g. A retelling of dinner turns into a description of grocery stores and what you would do to fix the problems as you see it.

>>18297349
I'd wager they didn't, the moral rat found them.

>>18297352
>a description of grocery stores and what you would do to fix the problems as you see it
and that helps me how?

>>18297475
Well, if you practice viewing the world around you objectively then you may begin to form the habit of asking questions and having original thoughts about things we take for granted or never question. I'm not sure I can convince you of the value in that, but it can improve problem solving, reasoning, creativity, etc.

>>18297511
Zoomers won't understand because Apple=bad, but my favorite anecdote is Steve Jobs taking a calligraphy/typography course in college and demanding beautiful fonts in the OS. He focused on shit that engineers didn't care about, but consumers eat up.

>>18297110
Correct. Very on the nose.
>>18297349
The emo kid somehow found the proxy and used it in class to check his MySpace.
>>18297388
People were squeezed. Rights were imposed. People made deals. Children cried. Administrators realized they shouldn’t be interrogating children.

>>18295296
Taking too many notes and thus being slower at reading

>>18297537
Cool anecdote and I'm not an apple fan.
>>18297595
>Administrators realized they shouldn’t be interrogating children.
At least they figured it out eventually.

How do I make my SM look like this?

>>18298469
Isn't that just 18.

Anyone know of a good index card holder for my desk

>>18292721
>>18297334
I have OCD too probably and I do something similar. Should be okay as long as you don't let it get too bad.

>>18297334
No but I don't think I have it

Thank you for your notes on Love, folks. I hold your work in high regard.

>>18297314
Kantbot's been talking about it for a while. That's where I first heard of it.

>>18299669
O. Don't read him anymore after he blocked me for saying Phil Spector was the worst thing to happen to music :(

>>18299590
Thank you very much. Any specific thoughts?

>>18299669
Please don't silently imply this board is integrated with Twitter. By this point it's probably true, but silently admitting it is probably steepening its decline. KB has minimal influence here until you actually post about him.

>>18299707
What'd Spector do?

>>18299771
Not at the moment. I'll probably continue to lurk. I think I've played the role I need to here. Yall are doing a really good job. My hat's off to ya.

How efficient can physical zettelkastens be? I recently fucked myself over by taking physical notes and spending quite a waste of time transferring it to digital. Nevertheless, I am drawn to the idea for a number of reasons.

>>18300000

>>18300000
Noice.

>>18300000
I don't think you'll have an efficiency problem if you use zettelkastens already. It's the difference between someone who uses one and someone who doesn't. You're already superior by leagues.

>>18300000
Zettelkasten GET

>>18300011
>>18300022
You too, kek.
>>18300017
I don't already. I'm not the type (yet).

>>18300000
CHECKED

>>18300000
Nice quints, oldschoolbro.
As to your question, who the hell knows? I don't believe many of us will build physical ZKs, but let us know how it goes if you end up going through with it.

Do you guys use different vaults?

>>18300432
No, never.

EMACS

>>18295932
this reminded me of something i read recently which hypothesized that the reason almost all human cultures made use of divination at some point is that it injects an element of pseudorandomness into our decision making which enables us to overcome the (many) biases we are otherwise liable to fall prey to. i thought it was such an interesting idea that i actually bought a tarot deck, but it turns out you have to have at least an ounce of creativity to use them and i'm hopelessly autistic

Whenever I put things in Obsidian, it just feels like I'm putting it in there to forget it. And all the clever links and tags and organization just becomes an inconsistent mess, which triggers my autism. I think I'm going to return to old fashioned notebooks, with no order to it other than chronological. Unless someone can help me with what I am doing wrong.

>>18300875
>it just feels like I'm putting it in there to forget it
Because you need to revise them. Either use your current project notes or just start at whatever triggers your interest and go along the links. Or use the graph view and check which notes are dead-ends or worse still have no links, and see where they might link, or what would you like to search/think to develop that note further.
A chronological notebook is a graveyard of ideas, especially if you don't re-read it regularly.
Like you take notes for a reason. Right? You have a reason to collect things that pique your interest. So that means your notes are naturally related to that reason and interest. If they are valuable, you'll return to read them.

How do I learn everything?

>>18289628
>>18289761

Is it ur website? How did u make it?
I love the style

For me an important thing to do is not drink too much. Drinking really fucks with your memory.

>>18289761
sounds like the most boring person on the planet

Identify associative biases.
Recognize subjects that have drawn the most of your interest.
Cartograph a mnemonic index.
Access your index when you need something.
I call this the neural pathing method.

>>18301052
1-2 beers is like a stimulant

how much are you drinking

>>18301033
Anon, read the thread.

>>18301061
I envy people who can stick to a rigorous routine like that. I have a daily 2h study routine that I've kept up for the last 5 years, but other than that, everything else is chaos. Boring is good, it means routine has settled in and there is no "starting friction" anymore.

>>18300849
Are you Ericssonanon? I learn more about you each day. How do you suspect this impacted Jewish populations which responded to divination with death? They have a unique claim over culture and long-standing traditions of intrigue.

>>18300875
How do you feel like you're forgetting it? For me I can always revitalize what I've written with backlinks and solidify topics. If I need anything it's already there. I use it for memory, familiarity and cohesion, and I enjoy seeing the links between what I know and have written. Maybe don't lean into the features so much? It could also be a memory thing, to where you just want to improve your memory overall. What's specifically inconsistent about the software?

>>18300982
Get married to a woman who will tolerate your reading. During your honeymoon, visit sparsely some places of interest. (I do not recommend anything from here on): Read constantly until she divorces you. Repeat the process with another woman to affirm your readings. In between your travels, talk fervently to anyone who is seemingly knowledgable.

>>18301033
It's Obsidian.

>>18301061
>>18301250
Habits should be picked and chosen without a full framework of habit to live by, IMO.

>>18301052
Good luck, Anon!

>>18301231
Oh I'm an alcoholic trying to quit. Realistically I drink four beers or two bottles of wine a day. But not everyone needs to drink this much to hurt their memory. The point is, sometimes a healthy lifestyle is more important for you cognitive function that auxiliary things like mnemonics, spaced repetition, and nootropics.

>>18301272
>four beers
By this I mean pints of high strength beer by the way, which in terms of units is about 12 beers cans or something like that. Tramp juice basically.

>>18301272
>>18301280
Is this a health general now? Let's fix that posture, no more brain fog.
>https://youtu.be/oLwTC-lAJws
Anybody who's counting calories (or should be) would find Obsidian very useful for managing a routine and diet. A healthy body fat percentage will help cognition.

I wish you luck with your weaning off, Anon. You know best what to do. I know you have it in you!

>>18299669
>So what are you guys up to? Feeling kinda pumped myself, think I mighta found some computer boys for my revolutionary knowledge management and research augmentation software. Might end up coming to fruition after all. Baby steps.

this is all i can find

>>18301406
Please don't continue the Kantbot discussion but so far he's posted about Obsidian as the highest of the currently limited database software and screenshots of his graph view (he refuses to identify this software to most of his podcast viewers). You can find it with "from:KBUltra0 Obsidian" and you can cease posting about him on this forum.

>>18298491
Nvm, found out how to enable the submenu and toolkits. I had to change the level.

Do you lads use ZK UIDs? If so, what is the point of having them and how do you use them in Obsidian?

>>18303241
I tried but it was annoying. I only use them for daily notes I can't pick a name for.

I need some anons to compare my e-peen too because of my ego. How big is your folder in bytes (pick the most sensible unit) and how many words?

>>18304052
the entire vault and number of files/notes
obsidian btw

>>18304052
>>18304060
and, of course, software doesn't matter, but just explain it in terms of your organization
i probably have more files in my folders/vault because i break things down into sub-topics which you may not do, or maybe you take it to even greater extremes than me
it's a stupid question for many different reasons, just humor me and answer however you feel is best representative of your style

>>18304052
>>18304060
>>18304277
42.3mb, not sure of the rest—tell me how to find it? Only started it at the first thread of this though.

>>18304336
tbpqhwy i was trying to invoke cunningham's law but you out-idiot'd me, no offense

>>18285823
based. everyone should be trying to be a polymath.
For a more pragmatic system to implement, everyone should look into Getting Things Done by David Allen, the GTD system is more for the nitty gritty of work and life than information management, although thats included.

Having any kind of external system is going to be better than blindly drifting through life, good luck lads.

>>18304795
```A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.```

>>18304758
Those statistics just plausibly aren't easily accessible, Anon.

>>18304929
I groan every time I hear this.

>>18299771
>What'd Spector do?
He just ruined the album of some of the best artists of the 60's. He made Leonard Cohen do this fucking shitty porn jazz album and made Let It Be and All Things Must Pass sound like ass. All the albums made under him are good in spite of him but people say because of him why I don't know why

>>18305019
Same thing with Eno and Talking Heads and Albini and Nirvana.

>>18305016
It's what I got reminded of when you mention polymath.

>>18295390
>>18295397
>>18289539

this will probably be my last post for a while as these threads are predictably devolving into regurgitated content (there's only so much that can be said about zettelkasten or obsidian or even note-taking before things start to repeat themselves) and i think my contributions no longer of relevance. even time management is only tangentially related to "knowledge management", but as knowledge management lives in time, i suppose it's pertinent.

the need for time management arises from two simple facts:
1. our work is infinite
2. our time is not
without degenerating into benthamian utility maximization, we can say that, broadly speaking, we manage time to increase productivity--the amount of work done over some (usually large) span of time. most systems of time management recommend what i like to call a "command system", similar to a "command economy", in which a central authority ("you", the superego, smith's "impartial spectator", the prefrontal cortex, the soul, plato's logistikon or whatever else you wish to call it) allocates the scarce resource of time among a number of competing activities. such systems will often divide the activities into meaningful categories--productive/unproductive, menial/skilled, shallow/deep etc--and use a number of heuristics--"if it can be done in five minutes, do it now", "work without interruption on each task", "eat your frogs first"--to allocate the time. i propose, instead, a "free market system"--perhaps the same system which exists in the absence of this "command economy of time" but with more awareness of its ends and transparency in its means.

in a free market of time, the currency is reward. reward is an abstract notion which might be rendered as some neurochemical change, a release of dopamine say, or as an emotion like happiness and contentment. at any given moment activities compete over time by offering reward and as with physical currency, this reward currency is subject to time discounting. unlike the perfectly rational exponential discounting of money, reward is hyperbolically discounted. this has far reaching implications (many of which are discussed in detail by george ainsile, whose works i highly recommend) but for the purposes of time management we need to look at only a few of them.

the first is that reward which is offered sooner will trump reward offered later, even if the later reward is larger than the sooner one. borrowing terminology from ainsile, we will call the first ss (smaller, sooner) reward and the second ll (larger, later) reward. another consequence is that ll rewards can be summed, so that if we consider a series of ll rewards together, a "bundle", they may trump an ss reward. these two ideas alone suggest some interesting heuristics.

1/2

e.g consider the common adage that you should reward yourself after a task to reinforce it. if the task is arduous or long, the reward becomes ll and will fail to compete with ss. my suggestion: reward yourself before and after the task. at the very least make the beginning of the task as certain and as easy as possible and especially make the first attempt at the task as easy and certain as possible. this takes advantage of the serial-position effect and outcome primacy ensuring that the next time the task comes to mind, it will be remembered in a positive context (as we tend only to remember endings and beginnings). the power of this simple technique is not to be underestimated. hemingway famously used it to maintain momentum while writing day to day. repetition leads to a powerful positive feedback loop that results in the fastest habituation i have ever experienced.

another heuristic takes advantage of the bundling effect, wherein an activity wins on principle over an impulse. most activities which we consider to be the most productive offer ll rewards. we know ll rewards can beat ss ones if the ll rewards are summed together, so we group the activities into categories--principles--and let the activities compete on principle rather than in isolation. techniques like mental contrasting with implementation intentions, which have achieved a lot of success, are extensions of this principle, relating individual choices and activities to higher core values or outcomes.

i have said little about the allocation of time but that is partly the point. what i am suggesting is to let the brain and its hyperbolic discounting of incentives handle allocation, in place of a "command system" i am suggesting something akin to a "free market with tax incentives". if we focus on clearly defining our principles and explicitly managing the positive feedback loops that reinforce the activities pertinent to those principles all the while taking advantage of the implications of hyperbolic discounting, the time allocation will take care of itself with no interference from a higher authority. that is, after all, the ideal: "when the master governs, the people are hardly aware that he exists... when his work is done, the people say, 'amazing: we did it, all by ourselves!'

I know that taking notes it's important but it soon becomes boring, how to make the process more fun?

Is this only the third thread? I suggest you people to start to number them.

>>18305249
>>18305246
What do you suggest regarding the mental friction of starting a task? It's worse than friction, it's almost like a pain when I think of a thing I need to do, but I can't even get myself to start on it, and I know that it isn't even that difficult a task. I just feel this aversion like two magnets pushing against each other when I even think about it. A few years ago I would burn out 16 hour days and work my ass off and tackle harder and harder tasks, but eventually, somewhere along the line, I snapped and I just can't do it like I used to. How to I pavlov myself into enjoying work again?
>>18305395
Pretend it's your Captains Log. Like in star trek. I always find my writing is better when I purposely take on the voice of someone (picard, bob dylan, marx, etc)

>>18305452
in my experience the pain you're describing generally arises from one of two things:
1. uncertainty of outcome ("i don't know how my attempt will turn out" or "i don't know if doing this is in accordance with the principles i've set for myself--consciously or otherwise")
2. uncertainty in procedure ("i don't know how to get started")

the solution is to make an immediate, concrete decision about the task, something trivial and easily accomplished--not necessarily "correct" but absolutely certain--record that decision somewhere for later reference and then walk away and let your subconscious deal with the problem. this act of purposeful restraint coupled with a newfound certainty about the task will naturally increase motivation so that by the end of the waiting period you'll have started the positive feedback loop. to continue it (if the task requires it), simply end on a high note--at the moment of greatest certainty, when you absolutely know what to do next--rather than when you've exhausted yourself or gotten stuck.

another problem might be with something i did not mention: energy management. tasks either consume energy or replenish it and its important to sequence tasks in a way that's most conducive to the limits on human attention. we can only pay attention to something for about 1-3 minutes before we need some kind of contrast, 10-15 minutes before we need to switch up context within the task and 90-120 minutes before we need to replenish energy. working beyond these limits, even when highly motivated, has diminishing returns compared to say, taking a 15-30 minute nap every 90-120 minutes (nasa claims 24 minutes is the perfect number--i agree). you could take this to the extreme like da vinci, but even a happy medium results in a vast improvement to productivity, creativity and overall well-being. overworking is paradoxically counter-productive.

So just finished reading How to take Smart Notes.
I didn't find it very useful beyond an almost 200
page ad for zettlekasten
Don't get me wrong it did have a few tid bits of interesting points about how the brain works but it really felt like I was reading an expository/persuasive essay from High School on top of that it seems that actually teaching you how to take notes and do a zettlekasten wasn't as important and trying to convince you to do it in the first place, which I wouldn't have a problem with if the book's title was Why you should take smart notes and not How to..

>>18306720
Yeah, the entire book is basically summed up within the first few pages. Although the rest doesn't hurt since it's kind of a mystery.

>>18306720
So did I, anon. Luckily, processing out all the bullshit and turning only the relevant stuff into permanent notes served as good practice for getting my own ZK started. I suppose I can thank Ahrens for that lol

>>18306720
That's a weird way of looking at it. It shows you how and if that's what you mean by convincing then what's the difference? He just tells you how others have done things and how this compares. The only convincing you need is turning the page and that worked out wonderfully based on you finishing the book.

>>18306819
The whole book read more like an ad to convince you of the ZK method sure it talked about how to make a slip box and how to do ZK but it seemed like the book was overwhelmingly about why you should and less about How to

Do you guys ever think it's worth going back and rereading books? I realize consumerism is bad and just constantly hopping from one thing to the next without reflection is the worst. However, I also think about how I gained what I could from reading the book in the past and so what more could I gain by rereading it? This applies to simple books like GTD and Atomic Habits, but I also wonder if it's worth going back to those dusty textbooks I have left floating around that I learned years ago. After all, I did learn those things and the book being the size it is goes to show that maybe the information in there is important to learn. On the other hand, if I don't need it now, was there ever a point in having done that learning in that past? For example, biology was very intriguing material. You could study this subject for a life time obviously, but I'm not a biologist. It's just interesting stuff for me. Sometimes if I want to remind myself about a more specialized topic like neurons and how they work, I would dive in deep all the way down to the chemical level, but it's not like I can't live without having obtained that kind of knowledge either. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this aside from what seems to be a cost-benefit analysis. For example, it's as if instead of building a house piece by piece, you might instead fortify the foundation and lay it well. That's the principle that I wonder if anyone does similar lines of actions for. Refining and honing the old material you've gained and really carving it into the back of your hand as opposed to moving to fresh and new material.

>>18305129
Leonardo didn't extinguish himself appeasing a reddit scifi author's quote. He actually became an expert in what he did.

I feel this belongs here

>>18300849
Where did you read this? I'm interested in reading more about it.

Is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGpAW0z_Bo&list=PLzZCajspPU_UjFn0uy-J9URz0LP4zhxRK&index=1)) series of videos good for getting started with tiddlywiki or do I just wing it?

>>18295073
If you dread re-reading then i don't think these books will help you at all, dummy

>>18304758
>>18304758
Are you on *NIX / macOS? If so then it's plenty possible with some bash scripting (and PowerShell on Windows but I ain't touching that!). If people would find it genuinely useful I could probably hack something together (assuming i'm not too brain-drained from werk) but I'd have thought someone would have made an Obsidian plugin that did something similar already.

>>18305395
i don't think it has to be fun. note-taking just needs to 1) be low friction, i.e. easy to do and 2) serve a purpose or motivation

>>18288112
I use the MOC Method (Maps of Content) basically anything that falls under that category gets its own landing page that can be backlinked to the MOC, and then that way I can find all the relative articles/notes I've made on that topic be related to similar topics.

So for example; an MOC on Meditation, with all the notes and articles I've made on it there that backlink to it again, but also has a relation to my Psychology MOC.

This video here does a far better job at explaining it then I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GqQKCT0PZ4&t=181s

For STEMfags out there, what is your recommendation for stuyding maths, physics and other calculation-heavy stuff? I am thinking about taking notes/doing problems by hand, then rewriting them into latex, and then rehearse that problem as part of a spaced repetition routine. Is that a good way to do it? And how would I organize my latex notes? Zettelkasten, and try to link between related problems? Group it into categories? If I can use Obsidian for it, that would be great as it would allow me to have all my notes in one program.

Obsidian is the software I've wanted all my life. :'-)

>>18307167
That's an interesting question. The easy, probably unheplful, answer would be "isn't that what your notes are for?" but that only works as an answer if there's an implication of "and I am reading to recall what I previously knew". If, as you say, you are rereading to refine your knowledge e.g. you've read other books that change the way you'd intepret the text, your notes feel inadequate, you've matured/changed your mind on analogous topics then it seems to me like it'd be worth the investment. Also some books are just hard and you can't always get everything out of them on the first read.
To (sort of) answer your core 'is it worth it question' - I think only you can really determine that and can do so by thinking about about what your goal / outcome is of reading the book again.

>>18308205
Moore, Omar Khayyam
1957 Divination - A New Perspective. American Anthropologist 59(1):69-74.

Dove, Michael R.
1993 Uncertainty, Humility, and Adaptation in the Tropical Forest: The
Agricultural Augury of the Kantu'. Ethnology 32(2):145-167

>>18310424
thanks anon

>>18309461
my posts last thread on deliberate practice and chunking are applicable here, unfortunately the thread has been bumped off the archive and so, to summarize:

1. make sure you select your coach (in this questions/source material) carefully, ensuring that it is relevant to the expert performance you want
2. make sure your mechanism of feedback is as immediate as possible (i.e have ready access to an answer key, more detailed the answers, the better)
3. break the performance into discrete subtasks which test you at the limit of your ability (i.e don't try to do an entire page of exercises in one sitting, zero in on difficult problems and break them apart)
4. repeat subtasks (ideally spaced) until they become chunked (see 1+-2 "rule" posts >>18295390, >>18295397) then incrementally increase complexity.

in general focus on the "language" of your field, on the units of abstraction that make up its vocabulary, ranging from physical quantities or natural phenomena to essential theorems, approximations and models. memorize and chunk these together to become fluent in the high-level abstracted language that experts of the field "speak".

whenever possible make sure that what you're learning accords with your actual values and goals. there's no point in poring over textbooks if your purpose is to pass an exam, simply take exams over and over. likewise if you want deep understanding, better to go straight to the source rather than consume filtered down wash. read euler's "elements of algebra" or newton's principia or maxwell's "treatise on electricity and magnetism" (start with fleisch's book if you must). expert performers, as a rule, tend to have formed the best abstractions--without which they could not have made their groundbreaking discoveries--so steal them.

it depends on your goals though, without which i can't really advise beyond this point.

bump

>>18285823

>>18312464
Good write up. Basically what Smart Notes was about too. Might even be worth learning calligraphy.

>>18312464
based.

i asked about analog methods (e.g. b*llet journal) either in this thread or the last one and no one replied.

>>18313043
I see those being sold on marketing channels all the time, I legit can't tell if anyone actually uses them.

>>18307167
>Do you guys ever think it's worth going back and rereading books?
Yes, rereading *great* books are worth going back to because of its inherent greatness. Any book not worth rereading wasn't worth your time in the first place. And what about the nuggets of wisdom that appeared in books not worth rereading? The answer is simple: if it were great or important, you'll remember it anyway.

>but I also wonder if it's worth going back to those dusty textbooks I have left floating around that I learned years ago. After all, I did learn those things and the book being the size it is goes to show that maybe the information in there is important to learn.
Perhaps those information is important—but not for you. If it were, again, you would've reread that textbook again and again.

>On the other hand, if I don't need it now, was there ever a point in having done that learning in that past? For example, biology was very intriguing material. You could study this subject for a life time obviously, but I'm not a biologist. It's just interesting stuff for me. Sometimes if I want to remind myself about a more specialized topic like neurons and how they work, I would dive in deep all the way down to the chemical level, but it's not like I can't live without having obtained that kind of knowledge either.
If you don't need it now and you don't know if you will need it later is simply called curiosity. Chasing curiosity chases more curiosity, which could lead to conclusions and conjectures. Why would you want to stilt your curiosity? If a book solves your curiosity, did you not learn from it? The more you feed curiosity, the more dots you discover, meaning the more dots you could connect. Once you connect the dots, you begin forming new, novel dots. The real learning comes from conjecturing your own ideas.

>For example, it's as if instead of building a house piece by piece, you might instead fortify the foundation and lay it well. That's the principle that I wonder if anyone does similar lines of actions for.
That's called building with first principles—a way of seeing the world through the absolute truths of things and building from there: the closest thing we can be like gods.

>>18312464
cringe. imagine cucking yourself because you couldn't control your own biology and future. imagine blaming some device or some three-letter organization instead of blaming your own lack of conviction. gtfo here with such peasant-like thinking.

>>18313192
its not about willpower.

spending all day in front of a screen is painful. it's nice to handwrite notes

>>18285823
What software or method should I use for my wrongful conviction work? I have over 2000 pages of records and approximately 14 crucial people involved in my client’s actual innocence claim. I have no way of organizing all this information before I start writing my brief.

>>18313462
Sounds like you need both information management (managing your records, any information given to you, source documents not made by you) and knowledge management (your synthesis of the information after you have processed/read about it). For source documents I'd probably store them all in a project folder "write brief innocence claim" or whatever. As you read, take notes. These notes should be simple (facts, X went to location Y) and just describe what you are reading (selecting the parts that are interesting). They compress the information since you are selecting only what is important. Then after I've read the material and have my observation notes of the reading, I'd create an outline note that gives me an overview of all my observations. Possibly in chronological order or otherwise, whatever helps you create the overview you want. Then you can create new notes that are basically claims or arguments you are making. These notes link to observation notes as proof. Ultimately I would write the brief or essay in LaTeX using my notes as reference.

For everyone else, recommended knowledge work reading: https://oasislab.pubpub.org/pub/54t0y9mk/release/2

>>18313724
Cheers, lad. This was immensely helpful and I appreciate the time you took writing this out.

>>18285823
>It is recommended to read the book on the subject before starting your ZK
I may be missing something, which book in the resource list is addressing zettelkasten? Or is it referring to the website?

>>18314222
It should be "How to Take Smart Notes" by Ahrens, OP must've missed indicating that.

>>18314900

It's in the pastebin, at the end of it

>>18314900
>>18316022
Thanks for the help! It is in the paste bin but never mentions ZK in the description of the book.

>>18312464
this photo reminded me of a journaling subreddit and like half the photos are people taking a picture of the first page of their journal and it's always like

>ok, getting back into journaling. haven't done this in awhile and i want to see how this goes. ok. so. were do i start? ugh. i meant "where". i'm so stupid.

and the post gets like 500 upvotes. FUCK that website is stupid. i'm going to put together a compilation just because it's so bizarre how many times i've seen that exact thing. brb

>>18313158
well you can easily make your own with a $0.50 notebook so i think most people are sensible enough not to spend $20-$30 on a marketing meme.

the idea itself is good though: using an index to organize notes, entries, etc.

>>18316738
> i'm going to put together a compilation just because it's so bizarre how many times i've seen that exact thing. brb

based au-teest

>>18313724
very cool article

>>18285823
How the fuck do I manage calibre to not be a mess of books? Like, make some folders and such.
Please help.

>>18317396
Ask yourself first if it matters. Calibre already has a search function.

>>18317422
Yeah it matters, because if I want to read a book about economy I would like to have a folder for that instead of trying to guess its name or find if close to a book about hiking.

>>18317430
Then make an Economy folder. Make sub-folders as necessary.

What do you all do for a living? I'm curious to know how adopting the methodologies mentioned in this general has affected your lifestyle/career.

>>18317492
But how do I make one?

>>18317430
>>18317396
Are you browsing your calibre library from the file manager? All my stuff is directly on a e-reader so I just use tags

I want some kind of software to make simple mind-maps and thought-webs. I want to be able to put down a point, and link it to other points, with the links labeled. What software can I use to do this? Excel lets me do this, but only with descending trees. I just want to be able to freely link points together.

Any ideas?

>>18317627
Yeah I'm using it trough GUI on my pc. Decided to give it a try since it was suggested here, but I might simply return to browsing the files as usual.

>>18317649
Obsidian. It does't allow vertical hierarchy (except for some 3rd party mods, maybe?), but neither it is strictly for zettelkasten, you can make any other arrangements of notes/points.

>>18317649
obsidian.md
you can use mermaid to draw mindmaps

>>18317545
seconded

>>18317545
Not quite your original question, and only found this place yesterday but, personally, I'm here because I can't keep all the information straight in my head.
Especially when it comes to info related to creating effective plans, along with what problems I'm encountering and if I'm fixing them or not.
Lifting, finances, math, coding, life shit etc.
After a while it gets overwhelming keeping track of where I am with all of it, and if I'm actually getting anything actually done and not just running around like a chicken with my head cut off.
I've been using a private discord server for throwing thoughts and notes in for the past 2 years and tracking lines of thinking I had gone down, which worked ok, but its impossible to keep it all organized well enough to extract the full amount of value from it.
It's always really bothered me that I don't have a good syllabus for what I have done or covered, because if I forget any of it or get led astray, I can at least find my way back by looking at what was good in the past and figure out where I can move forward from.

All the zettelkasten software I'm seeing is kind of giving me a headache. Please tell me if my understanding is correct: In the original ZK, all "linking" was done within the ID itself. Luhmann straight up numbered the cards and alternated letters and numbers to "branch out" the notes as much as he wanted. So (using a dumb example) I write:

>50 A horse is a sort of animal
And I want to add to this, I'd write
>50a Horses, E. ferus caballus, are one of the six extant species in the Equus genus of the Equinae subfamily, itself in the Equidae family
Then I could add to this with something like
>50a1 The Equus genus is the only extant equid taxon
And if I have another horse-related thought which has nothing to do with taxonomy, I'd do something like
>50b Horses are hindgut fermenters, like elephants or rhinos

Then as I develop more "threads" of horse information I would jot down the start of each one in an index. I would also have a notebook or something of the sort to make drafts of my notes as I read stuff about horses. Luhmann would put card 50 at the front and all branching cards behind it.

Using this cabinet, would there be a way to link this horse "branch" to say, one about mammals in general or does it have to be strictly linear at that level? Is that handled in the index?

And if it's that simple, aren't programs like Zettlr kind of overcomplicating it by having IDs AND categories AND tags AND hyperlinks?

>>18318978
I've decided to not use any special software and just use text files with Luhmann's alphanumeric identifier in a folder, with no titles. Supposedly one benefit of a paper ZK is that when you're looking for stuff you end up reviewing the whole line of thought made by the cards so I guess that's the digital equivalent. But I often use my actual text editor for other stuff so I guess I'll put them in a format it can't open, just to keep things neat. If I need to refer to other zettels I'll cite them by their identifier in the body of the card I'm working in. I'll report in a week or two to say how this has worked out.

Do you guys use this for fiction or just nonfiction literature?

>>18318978
If I recall correctly, Luhmann has a "hyperlink" kind of thing that linked his cards to other cards and it wasn't linear at all unless you count it from its conception. It's why he had weird things like 50a34g3h23 for his IDs. For example, a note about society could also contain hyper links to economics and history if they're of enough relevant interest. I honestly didn't pay much attention to the index thing. I think he just puts stuff there if he didn't want to forget about it. About software, they extend in whatever direction they feel is necessary and by popular choice, so take that as you will. If you need it, use it. If not, don't.

>>18320438
Depends on what you mean by fiction. I connect storytelling and narratives of fiction novels, does that count?

bump

>>18319758
Besides not having backlinks or search, with only a single, physical order to how your notes are laid out you're quite restricted in ability to find adjacencies compared to how a digital ZK can present many different views of the same data to make it easier to find commonalities.
Main ones I use are:
>search
>notes by most recent edit
>notes by number of backlinks
>tags
>index notes that link to other notes
>list of orphan (unlinked) notes
>notes sorted by length
>looking at the whole ZK on a 2D/3D graph

>>18285823
Wtf is this thread

>>18324312
A thread about taking notes good.