/lit/ - Literature

>>18225882
Frozen was propaganda only in that it was made purely to fuck with SEO of Walt having frozen himself.

Be a man and stick with your original picture, coward.

>>18225882
Watch his latest episode on "how to pick a college major that will get you paid"

>I don't regard Ayn Rand as a great mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9aHYj93xJY

Is he a RINO? He doesn't like Rand and he's not willing to profess faith in God either but tries to compromise by saying he "acts as if God exists".

>>18225900
he is an enormous faggot pure and simple. can you imagine if he was straight talking and didn't weasel his way through questions with his beliefs? it would be impossible. someone with his views in our era must be a cunning weasel. but the funny thing is he projects his own indecisiveness and falsity onto others like Nietzsche. this bitch literally misrepresents everything my man talked about it is actually really weird to watch because no one calls it out. he said "Nietzsche was a great admirer of the catholic church" i mean any video with him discussing Nietzsche is garbage, he somehow manages to suck Nietzsche's dick and shit all over him at the same time which i find quite remarkable.

also every single idea he has is full of shit and worthless. they are painfully unoriginal, it sucks the only people who really call him out are socialists or leftist losers. "structures are only power structures if they are corrupt" another retarded quote off the top of my head. do people really need to be told why this is retarded? and i am not too informed keen on Egyptian mythology but the eye of horus or whatever is not a "symbol to show that you climb the social ladder by making eye contact" again how is it that when he utters these phrases everyone does not walk out of the classroom? it's really fascinating. i think it is because he is talking to loser men who just want to be told that they need to work hard or some shit, but in that case you would be better off reading David Goggins or Tony Robins. like why is this man so popular it's gross

>>18225882
>Nietzsche, Jung, Dostoyevsky
Wow he must be a big fan of Shestov then.

>>18225900
If you watch his conservative talks carefully you'll notice more of this. Questions which would usually for any other person would be fairly easy Peterson answers with the most verbose ass word salad you could imagine. Most chalk this up to obscurantism but I think it's mostly because he's out of his depths as an orator. His work is (imho) an academic fucking goldmine but because he's trying so hard to communicate it to the common rabble he either reduces and generalizes far too much of what he's trying to convey, or he starts going off on these long tangents which don't fit the format. I'd even go as far as to say the Newman debacle was less a case of a feminist getting BTFO'd by superior masculine intelligence, and more a case of the complex nature of Peterson's work clashing with Newman's role as an interviewer supposed to entertain and inform a rather average audience. Contrast this to the Zizek debate, wherein the two just kinda tossed knowledge, agreement and disagreement back and forth, even though the event was hyped up as some weird "battle of the ideologies". It's all ironic, seeing as he professes that one of the best ways to get your life in order is to be as precise with your language as possible.

>>18225882
pure product of the secular humanism, like the subhumans Hegel, Kant, Heidegger, Adorno, Habermas, Arendt, Husserl, Popper, Strauss, Weisse, Carnap, Engels, marx,Feuerbach, Frege, Fitche, [all germans, weird huh? germans can't think, they suck at wars so they fell back on ''''''''''philosophy'''''' who travestied the greek philosophy which was lived, and they turned it into mental masturbation in sterile universities, in order to get a cushy life like a generic girl gets one from her orbiters]. Germans thinkers are vaginas who think they think.

His reading list has nothing older than the 19th century. Religion section, a bunch of nonsense. No works from any of the church fathers or a single saint. And this is the 'history' section.

>>18226207
>Newman debacle
Is he a one trick pony? Was he on drugs that night or something? I don't understand how he could remain so calm there and chuckle amusedly at her when in every other debate he comes off as shortfused and agitated. Even in the Susan Blackmore debate which is against someone with no hostile intentions at all.

I thought it was because he's been under attack from the left and felt defensive.
But look at this debate against atheists from his pre-fame days where he calms off as very prickly and was even accused of being rude at one point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48V0m2lia5U#t=26m

>>18225882
>for someone who's supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century
why is he supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals? because he did a ted talk and wrote two self help books?

>>18226258
Because he helped lift millions of 4chan incels out of poverty and celibacy

>>18226246
I don't know, honestly. It is curious, though. Maybe he just hates atheists, lol.

>>18226258
For one thing he's easily the most well known intellectual of the last few decades.
Hes done a great job of taking more complex ideas and delivering them in a digestible format.

If you can't see that then your a retard

>>18226258
Youtube fame is all that matters.

>>18226246
>"she ended up.. someone dismembered her with a chainsaw"
>peterson laughs
this is why I like him

>>18226304
If that happened in 2021 he would cry.

>>18226278
I think he has an oversensitive and poorly tuned liberal-agenda radar gun on a hair trigger.

Look at this one against the GQ feminist at 1:12:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZYQpge1W5s#t=1h12m25s

He's angry the entire debate, and as soon as she admits the left calls her a TERF, he immediately smiles amicably and opens up for about 20 seconds.

>>18226310
pus puss detected

>>18226308
How do I keep myself from getting emotional like he does in public? That's my worst nightmare. Imagine if he ever cried when debating some leftist shill.

That could be a debate tactic. Pretend to talk about Jesus suffering on the cross or how cruel the world is, and as soon as he leaks out a tear you start laughing at him start talking about white privilege and trans rights.

>>18226322
What do you have against women?

>>18226323
>How do I keep myself from getting emotional like he does in public?
Dont get involved in emotional arguments.

>>18226246
To be fair that Atheist Canadian Ben Shapiro guy was one insufferable faggot

Can someone explain to me what Peterson means when he talks about how life is "fundamentally suffering"? I mean it's really not that bad. I think most people, religious or not, would choose to stay alive if given a painless suicide pill and they're not doing it out of some deference for God.

Why does he make it sound so melodramatic like we're all perpetually bedridden burn victims with exposed nerve endings and the only thing that can get us through the day is religion?

>>18226348
Yeah but the old atheist guy makes up for it. He's basically the atheist version of Cathy Newman era Jordan Peterson

>>18226358

>>18225882
to be honest ive been a fan of peterson for long time but i think he pretends to be more well read than he actually is. as ive read more of carl jung for example i realize that peterson pretends to have a general knowledge of the mythological stories from around the world, but he only ever cites the tale of marduk. i think his defense of "the sacred" in maps of meaning is brilliant. everything else you take with a grain of salt

>>18226389
Zizek said Peterson had debate preparation teams that coached him on the topics of marxism like he was going to some presidential candidate, which is why he decided to confound Peterson by going completely off the tracks.

Do you think the GOP considers him important enough as a shaper of public discourse that they're hiring these prep teams for him or is that too conspiratorial?

>>18226403
If large amounts of the public and profit is involved, sure.

>>18226403
youd be hard pressed to get the GOP to pay for anything except pedophile islands

>>18226219
pseud but based

What causes leftists to get so angry for one person?

>>18226714
reddit =/= leftist

>>18226714
I have seen people leave a book unread because they read that the book was sexist or homophobic or analbuttfuckingponydragonsex phobic
they'll rather leave shit out then see for themselves what it actually is.

>>18226732
yes it surely does

>>18226734
Its not like theyre missing out on much by ignoring Peterson's retarded bugman-materialist evolutionary psychological analysis of scripture.

>>18226352
Probably for cases where you do suffer deeply and horribly, and why even under that circumstances, life is worth living.
Under the impression that life is not suffering, those who suffer are not "living", causing a schism between what "should" and what "is".
Therefore, a better prospect is to die.
He also have retarded depression and if you listen to the story about his family, it's a miracle he haven't killed himself.

>>18226752
I am not talking about peterson
just in general
reddit and goodreads audience should not be taken seriously
just go on r/books and you will rope yourself

>>18225882
if dr peterson is one of the most important intellectuals of our time then Earth is fucked

>>18226768
I realized this when I saw people cheering and applauding during the zizek vs peterson debate. we should nuke ourselves out, we had a good run. When a boxing match and a discussion is to be taken as the same, it's time to end it.

>>18226389
I think his problem is that he gets into discussions about topics in which he is not as well read. Things like philosophy or history are definitely not his thing but in most evolutionary biology and psychology he is spot on. But then he debates the former more than the latter and thats where it goes wrong.

Dosto is read in high school

I pick out a book on the trial of Adolf Eichmann. I have a vague notion of him as a Nazi war criminal, but no special interest in the guy. The book just happens to catch my eye, is all. I start to read and learn how this totally practical lieutenant colonel in the SS, with his metal-frame glasses and thinning hair, was, soon after the war started, assigned by Nazi headquarters to design a “final solution” for the Jews – extermination, that is – and how he investigated the best ways of actually carrying this out. Apparently it barely crossed his mind to question the morality of what he was doing. All he cared about was how best,in the shortest period of time and for the lowest possible cost,to dispose of the Jews. And we’re talking about eleven million Jews he figured needed to be eliminated in Europe.

Eichmann studied how many Jews could be packed into each railroad car, what percentage would die of “natural” causes while being transported, the minimal number of people needed to keep this operation going. The cheapest method of disposing of the dead bodies- – burning, or burying, or dissolving them. Seated at his desk Eichmann pored over all these numbers. Once he put it into operation, everything went pretty much according to plan. By the end of the war some six million Jews had been disposed of. Strangely, the guy never felt any remorse. Sitting in court in Tel Aviv, behind bulletproof glass, Eichmann looked like he couldn’t for the life of him figure out why he was being tried, or why the eyes of the world were upon him. He was just a technician, he insisted, who’d found the most efficient solution to the problem assigned him. Wasn’t he doing just what any good bureaucrat would do? So why was he being singled out and accused?

----------------------------

It's all a question of imagination. Our responsibility begins with the power to imagine. It's just as Yeats said: "In dreams begin responsibility. Turn this on its head and you could say that where there's no power to imagine, no responsibility can arise." [...] Just like Adolf Eichmann caught up in the twisted dreams of a man named Hitler. - Oshima

>>18225887
>Picasso's Guernica is not art
Correct.

>>18225882
>for someone who's supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century(so far)
lmao

>>18226219
Funny how more than 1/4 are jews...

>>18225882
Why would you read Nietzsche or Jung in an English course?

>>18226806
>the 11 million!!!
lol mfs believe this

>>18226750
>

>>18225882
>who's supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century

>>18225882
Academics have no credibility outside their narrow speciality.

He is pathetic proof of it.

Zizek, by contrast, is a hot mess of cocaine fuelled irony sex rant.

>>18225882
This guy is supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century so far? Holy shit I hate modernity.

>>18225887
'Painting is not made to decorate apartments. It's an offensive and defensive weapon against the enemy.(about Guernica).'

>>18226774
Clapping was started by the anti peterson fags in the audience.


>why is he the most well known thinker
No one is making zizekwave

>>18226950
Zizek had the advantage audience wise because his fans were the liberal elites while peterson's are the unemployed incels who couldn't afford to fly out there in addition to whatever the scalpers were charging.

I bet non of my previous high school class has read any of them to this day. And besides Dosto also from uni "class"

>>18225887
of course that crap was propaganda too

>>18225900
>Is he a RINO?
No, he'd have to be American first. Canadians don't have a republican party. That's what the R stands for. You're not one of those people who confuses republican with conservative, are you?

>>18225887
>>18226820
>guernica isn't art
Based fuck reddit

>>18225900
>Is he a RINO? He doesn't like Rand and he's not willing to profess faith in God either
Rand was an almost militant atheist, additionally him disliking Rand just makes him slightly less retarded than you. Rand was a delusional hypocrite, a bad philosopher and a worse artist. Though she was so Jewish that it’s comical

>>18225887
holy shit what a retard

>>18225882
>one of the most important intellectuals
He's just a youtube meme who wrote a self-help book, not an intellectual
Don't fall for the /lit/ memes, newfriend

>>18226134
>HE DIDN'T REPRESENT NIETZSCHE THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD HIM THEREFORE JP IS A FAGGOT huehuheuhuehuehuehuehe

>>18226714

Because Leftists and Atheists are brainlet circle-jerking retards.

>>18226820
The real artists were the Condor Legion

>>18227318
>Condor Legion
based

>>18225882
He needs to engage with works of Heidegger, Jacques Ellul, John Michael Greer, Ted Kazyncki, etc

>>18227357
Damn, I'd pay money to hear or read Peterson's analysis of Industrial Society and Its Future. It's a hell of a good document, up until the "and that's why we need to blow it all up" part.

>>18226134
>structures are only power structures if they are corrupt

He doesn't argue this. He argues that hierarchy in the west is fundamentally predicated on competence, not power, though power obviously plays a role. What you may be thinking of is when he argues that hierarchies only become power centric and tyrannical when they become corrupt. This is a response to the idea that the West is a "white patriarchy," as asserted by the far left.

>>18226732
wake up retard

>>18227376
>up until the "and that's why we need to blow it all up" part.
that's the best part

I'm kind of astounded at some of the things being asserted in this thread. He's never really claimed to be a philosopher or a theocrat. He comes at things from a psychological and (therefore) biological perspective. His decades of research in this field makes for a very "meta" conception of humanity, existence, consciousness, and reality.
take a pause
I'll try draw an effective analogy
Say you're a young parent and your child is crying because someone in school told him that Santa doesn't exist. How do you even begin to console your child? Do you say: "Your friend is right, Santa does not exist."? Do you say: "Well, Santa himself doesn't literally exist, but he might as well exist for the function he serves."? Do you say: "The function Santa serves to children, and society at large, is important enough to maintain that it matters not whether a human male named Santa Claus actually exists or not."?
There is a scale of explanation, much of it meta, which actually has a bearing on how such information is communicated and understood. If you start your comment by saying, "God doesn't exist," then you're basically laying the foundation for everything ABOUT God to be dismissed or trivialized. So you can't say, "God doesn't exist." You must instead say, "Whether he does or not, he might as well exist." Because that leaves the door open to the lofty and critical human concepts that are intrinsically tangled up with our perception of reality, our consciousness, and our understanding of ourselves and each other.

>>18227977
Isn't competence just another form of power? In other words, if someone is more competent at combat than everyone else in his tribe he is de facto more powerful.

>>18228105
Not necessarily. If you are looking for a plumber you'll be looking for the best one, in other words, the most competent plumber. They hierarchy of plumbers arranges itself in this way, and is not based on power or domination.

>>18226352
The point is that suffering is inevitable, and the most important and impactful moments of your life are tragic moments, not moments of joy. Also in the world a short time ago there was way more tragedy in everyones lives than now. So you shouldn't build your life around being happy 24/7, suffering is really important and how you deal with it will define you as a person in a lot of ways.

Now that the dust has settled, whats the verdict?

>>18226207
>Questions which would usually for any other person would be fairly easy Peterson answers with the most verbose ass word salad you could imagine. Most chalk this up to obscurantism but I think it's mostly because he's out of his depths as an orator.

It's because he's worried about his words being taken out of context.

>>18228122
But is the very fact that he is getting more work than his competition not a form of domination since he is indeed securing more recourses for himself thereby depriving them?

>>18226352
>Can someone explain to me what Peterson means when he talks about how life is "fundamentally suffering"?

This insight hinges on the observation that pleasure is linked to pain.

>>18226389
>i think he pretends to be more well read than he actually is

He was well-read in 1980, but read less and less with each passing year.

Never really followed this nigga, only know him from the channel 4 news thing and the Zizek debate. Seems like an exceedingly average edging towards boring thinker. Still I can't bring myself to hate him, the sheer amount of rage he causes in redditors makes me at least a little sympathetic.

>>18228221
>this nigga
remove negroisms from your lexicon

>>18228222
this nigga be spittin fax tho

>>18228018
I would say not lying to the child to begin with would be the best option.

>>18226732
Cope

>>18228240
wow it really do be like dat, huh? sheeeit this jive turkey finna bouta mup da doo didda

>>18228270
Yes, and Peterson reiterates this throughout his Biblical lecture series. But, at the time, while your child is still a child, saying, "Santa does not exist", knowing that he's incapable of understanding any of the nuance or context that is necessary to articulate that fact, is probably not the wisest thing. Child cannot be told unfiltered truth and still become functional adults.

>Nietzsche
Regular shizo

>Jung
Occult&hermetist shizo

>Dostoyevsky
Orthodoxal theoshizo

>>18228306
Weebs aren't allowed to post on this board. You have to go back.

>>18228315
I'm not weeb, just attentionwhore that advanced in philosophy

>>18225887
This is especially hilarious when you read Maps of Meaning. The very first thing he does is take a political propaganda text about the supremacy of Babylon in the Mesopotamian pantheon and completely misinterpret it as an expression of natural psychic desires, without even acknowledging in passing the political purpose it was written for

>>18228292
I think children should be told the unfiltered truth by their parents because the world is going to confront them with that truth either way. If they interact with the world through analogy and mythos then they will not have much influence over reality since they will be interacting with it through a filter.

>>18226219
Haven't laughed this hard for a long time, keep up the good work

>>18225882
Nobody reads them in English courses.

>>18226258
He was one of the first to publicly call tranny wokoids out on their bullshit without immediately backing down. That's why people took a liking to him. It's more due to their hatred of woke trannies.

>>18228329
He is a pop-psychologist that doesn’t realize he is a pop-psychologist.

I hate to say it, but Mr. Peterson is a midwit. And this is coming from a midwit. But in a society replete with dimwits, a midwit is worth is listening to (sometimes)

>>18225887
>kids' movie that teaches young girls to have more ambition than just aspiring to become housewives
>"REEEEE THIS IS FUCKING POLITICAL PROPAGANDA!!!!!"
The incel brain is truly fascinating

>>18226265
No he didn't.

>>18226258
Because rightoids are desperate for "thinkers" who validate their retarded uneducated beliefs

>>18225882
he's schizpohrenic, don't think about it too much
but also obscure influences aren't good influences

>>18225882
>someone who's supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century
the retards that post here....god

>>18225887
Frozen was specifically anti-Christian propaganda. The plot literally resolves in the princess not needing the love of "Christian" to be saved.

>>18228606
JP is a secularist with the appearance of a conservative. He's not cutting edge. Neither are those that give credence to left-right schemed politics. But he is useful to those that have nothing, which is most individuals in this heathen age.

>>18228287
chile...

>>18228202
Fuck you're a pseud.

>>18228640
I agree with this but just about anything is useful to ur average basement dweller.

>>18228671
okay retard

I took his class at university (Psychology of Personality). Only the first half of it is actually on YouTube (the second half was actually a lot more technical). The exams were based around the readings he had curated for us; I was actually pissed about that because the lecture shit in the first half of the course, the part on YouTube, had little to do with the content on which we were tested. He may reference those that OP mentioned most frequently in public...but they aren't his central focus as an academic.

That said, people on here know him as a talking-head (i.e. mostly through media appearances). As far as that goes, he's pretty high calibre (I'd rather watch someone like him speak for an hour than most of the people who appear on shit like Real Time with Bill Maher). There aren't very many people who could continue to book appearances on talk shows, geared toward the general public, while frequently referencing reference the people OP mentioned. Just because you're smarter than most of the people who hear his message, those he gears it towards, doesn't mean you have a deeper knowledge of the history of psychology, the clinical practice of such, and the philosophical roots he draws from as they specifically relate to his field.

Peterson is a psychologist first. The public figure shit is new and he's leaned into being a self-help guru (probably due to the same altruistic motivations that lead him to become a clinical psychologist). He also decades of experience as a working research scientist.

The fact he was able to take advantage of 15 mins of fame and turn it into a late-life career centered around being a public intellectual is pretty impressive if you think about it.

(Pic is the textbook from PSY230; if you want to know other major figures who have influenced him, start there).

>>18228671
A plumber being reliably awesome at plumbing is a form of domination because more people will want to have access to their skills.

You honestly don't see how that's an idiotic take? Fucking pseud.

>>18228683
A plumber being reliably awesome at plumbing is a form of domination because more people will want to have access to their skills.

You honestly don't see how that's an idiotic take? Fucking pseud.

>>18225882
Wait, isn't this guy a christian? How a christian thinker has Nietzche as a main influence? Dude basically shitted over the whole christian philosophy

PETERSONFAG GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD REEEEEEEEEEE

I'M TIRED OF SEEING THESE FUCKING THREADS DAILY

PETERSON IS NOT AN IMPORTANT INTELLECTUAL

FUCM ME THIS BOARD HAS GONE TO SHIT

>>18226329
Is that a male in the video?

>>18228006
what's the chance of losing several fingers if I tried this?

>>18226329
my fucking dick is so hard rn please sauce

>>18226134
>"Nietzsche was a great admirer of the catholic church"
where?

>>18225887
Guernica's purpose was certainly more than petty politics, especially more than the casual anti-male politics displayed in Frozen. Guernica was a depiction of an atrocity that actually happened. Frozen is "yeah childless career-focused middle-aged women are the least happy contingent of society, but who gives a shit let's promote that anyways"

>>18225882
Sorry that the guy who is actually serious about communicating to the masses isn't interested in niche bs

>>18228606
You will never be a woman

>>18228855
Are you fucking retarded bitch. If you are the best at anything period people in your field will be jealous of you. Why do you think he chose to be a plumber in the first place dummy? It was not because he liked to play with shit it was because he desired money. Who could have guessed? The impetus moving him forward is the will to power, so then the end result which is mastery in a skill would result in him being better than everyone, more powerful. In order for there to be a winner there must be losers retard. Why are you arguing with me on this board dummy, because you want to dominate me, it's okay I know.

Your saying it like "he is better so he deserves more business" sure I never argued that it isn't perfectly natural for him to get more clients.

Anyways if you don't understand this you are profoundly retarded. Just because we are living in modernity does not mean we have escaped our primitive nature, competence hierarchies are power hierarchies in fact every hierarchy is a power hierarchy. Retard

>>18228362
I think this is naive. Every person on earth interacts with reality through various filters, some of them almost unrecognizable. The idea of filtering reality for your children is to protect them from things that can and often do destroy them. It's the same reason we protect our children from physical dangers: yes, physical dangers are real and deadly, but sheltering children from them doesn't some how "save time and trouble" which they'll face later. It protects them when they're vulnerable and braces them until they can reduce their own vulnerability.

>>18225882
You better wash it

>>18229485
search on youtube nietzschean philosophy discipline is the precursor to true freedom jordan peterson

>>18230010
Yes but some filters are superior to others, some filters and modality of thinking are much more effective than others. For example reasoning from first principles like some of the greatest philosophers of all time is more effective than reasoning by analogy. I will concede that exposing a child to the full brunt of the worlds cruelty all at once is ill advised and could certainly break a child. I agree that a child should have to only face problems that they are capable of solving be they physical or mental, but in the same way that a child should have their body trained for future physical exertion so too must their mind be trained. It is not enough to simply shelter the child, the child must also be actively prepared, and the most effective way to do this would be through truth and discipline among other virtues. I believe filling their mind with stories is counterproductive and very inefficient.

>>18230112
>For example reasoning from first principles like some of the greatest philosophers of all time is more effective
so you're for metaphysics?

>>18230130
I think that every sound philosophical argument must have it's foundation in sound principles otherwise it is fundamentally flawed. However if you do base your philosophy off of observable patterns it should at least be something grounded in a hard science, and it's merit should be measured by it's applicability.

>>18230200
getting some cringe bugman vibes ngl

>>18230211
what do you mean?

>>18230112
But we've already established that pure, unfiltered truth is much to devastating and deadly to a child. That's why parents insulate them from certain aspects of reality. We provide a buffer until the child is capable of reducing their own vulnerabilities through experience, physical strength, or mental strength.
>filling their mind with stories is counterproductive and very inefficient
In what way? You either tell them the bare bones truth and devastate them, or you disguise certain realities in digestible stories which make them more understandable for children. Neither one constitutes lying, in my opinion.

>>18225882
>aside from Dostoyevsky these are all guys you read in a 1st year English course.
True. We read Dostoevsky in high school.

>>18228564
Especially funny coming from someone who loves Dostojewski.

>>18225887
>A psychologist uses sweeping generalizations to categorize ideas he doesn't understand
Wew lad what a scientific field

>>18226222
Can't believe people take this man seriously.

>>18228810
thank you for your opinion. it's very rational and coherent.

>>18228018
>He's never really claimed to be a philosopher or a theocrat
Then he should stop talking about philosophy.

>>18230334
>But we've already established that pure, unfiltered truth is much to devastating and deadly to a child
I knew Santa was a lie since I was four years old, I never died. Is this the level of argumentation from Peterson fanboys? Equating God to Santa?

>>18230603
Should you as well?
Almost everything he lectures about comes through the psychological, sociological perspective. To insist that broad topics are handled through those means without involving philosophy is insane.

>>18230603
>I never died from being told a [relatively harmless] truth, therefore truth should never be withheld from children.
Are you baiting me or did you completely miss the point?

>>18228810
>The fact he was able to take advantage of 15 mins of fame and turn it into a late-life career centered around being a public intellectual is pretty impressive if you think about it.
Indeed. And people were hungry for a filtered-down version of the things he's been reading about for thirty years.

>>18230619
Theres no point to miss desu. Grown men arent children (peterson fanboys not included), and children can handle a lot more than you think.

this word propaganda is never going to get to the root of whats going on

at "best" in this regard, i could simply express myself and my feelings, but this may still resonate in some way that shifts the spectrum of the environment.
you cannot express something without taking on a POV
so you can then say "well if there is intent", but all that does is instigate us to not be conscious and remain in ignorant action. which, maybe we should be.
but if the ignorant are free to act in ways the conscious aren't, then imo, the "conscious" haven't figured it out.

and who knows, maybe at root level in reality, everything is trying to pull you towards it, or to propagate itself. nature would certainly checkmark the latter.

so what if there is intent?
my only stipulation here is that we need to rid ourselves of empiricism period. that we can really take this thing in any direction.
from there, people are better able to see different things as different options rather than "the right" thing.
its often said woman is the delusional one but the hubris and illusion that man gets swept up in in his self-imposition could be ascribed the same title.

coming back to my point
you could say that all things are propaganda. all opinion is propaganda.
what you need to ask is where is it coming from, what are the values of the person expressing, and what do they/the expression offer you.
there's simply no way to express without bias, and that expression will permeate reality.

>>18228639
so what
the abrahamics are "propaganda" too

>>18230739
That isn't what we're discussing. We're discussing the importance and utility of parents protecting their children to varying degrees from the harsh realities of the world. These realities may be philosophical, ideological, political, physical, or biological. If you actually believed what you were purporting to believe, your offspring would be set forth into the world the moment they left the womb. Obviously, that's retarded.

Shouldn't "stop watching anime" be the first rule? I feel like it should have primacy over every other rule except maybe penis washing since watching anime that epitomizes escaping the harshness of reality and embracing the consumption of easy entertainment. The drug of anime is that it depicts the ideal life you want without ever offering you an incentive to achieve that life. You just endlessly consume more anime and pretend you live in that world.

>>18225882
He's not regarded by anybody as one of the most important intellectuals, just one of the most important public intellectuals.

Public intellectuals don't go very deep into anything in that role as that's not what the public wants.

Most people haven't done the first year of an English course, and remember nothing from High School.

>>18225895
why

>>18230885
>lying to your children about santa is the equivalent of throwing them into the world unprepared
I dont know what this has to do with Peterson the bugman viewing religion as a social tool.

>>18230920
This isn't the medium of anime, it's the writers
We are creating hordes of anxiety ridden Chihuahuas because they never have to face any type of struggle, even if it's a playful struggle (facing a mild fear)

The content is what's important
And to your point yes, across the board in ALL our media
We do not favor the act, but the results. The form and finish are downstream from the act and the state of mind or behavior.
This is why you have soulless ethots who pump themselves full of silicone
This is the environment we've created. Comfort is a plight.

>>18231004
It's not just a social tool, it's a communal human wisdom from many, many millennia of interacting with reality. I don't know where you got the impression that people who like Peterson see religion merely as a social tool--I don't think that's the impression he leaves on people--but religion is a much more complex thing that doctrine inserted into the minds of the young.

>>18229983
Your argument is simplistic and retarded.

>>18231047
True religion is existential and personal
The "law" of religion is subject to change relative to the !!!times!!!!
Different men basically achieve enlightenment and spring forth a doctrine relative to the times
There is some commonalities but all of them are biased representations from the wellspring. Both nature and the "times" are non static, and neither are the "rules" at play
In truth there is only a wheel. We can steer this thing in any direction. It is truly "neutral" and harmonious. Every direction comes at a trade off. There are reflections based on our actions, but even opinions on those are normalizations. Some people might enjoy hellfire. Some people might enjoy the thrill of a serial killer out to get them. Now apply those to the mass.

So yes everything is vying for its own direction. Some are just more cognizant of it. Our experience as a whole will reflect what we do here.
Be it conscious or not, all religion is a tool. Enlightenment is nothing, it is purely existential. And then YOU ask it questions.

"The tao that can be spoken is not the eternal tao"

"Religion" is always going to be dogma and identity engineering
Even Buddha took bias
But at least he was more forward about trying to get people to experience enlightenment, and tried to come up with methods to offer others.

>>18231120
>"Religion" is always going to be dogma and identity engineering
But this statement alone is imbued with an inherent contempt, resentment, criticism, and dismissal of those things--dogma and identity engineering. Has it occurred to you that functional societies REQUIRE things which will shape how the humans within them will behave? Or are such structures intrinsically evil?

>>18229983
I called you a pseud because you're making masturbatory arguments and forcing a preconceived idea at the expense of nuance. You're forcing the idea of a dominion of power into the discussion when it isn't necessarily the primary factor that drives plumbing (that's why you're a retard). You're basically an ideologue with a one-track mind (you think you've made a penetrating point but it's really just surface-level idiocy).

You're a retard. Seeth more.

So after Chomsky dies who will carry the torch of American intellectualism?

>>18231273
>American intellectualism
No one. It's dead.

>>18228810
I remember you. Thanks again.

>>18231273
There is no torch

>>18228923
retard and I won't elaborate

>>18226222
Shit house

>>18225887
>art
Fuck cubism and fuck prickasso.

>>18231273
Probably me

>>18232341
based (You)

>>18228810
>The fact he was able to take advantage of 15 mins of fame and turn it into a late-life career centered around being a public intellectual is pretty impressive if you think about it
That's not really something that happened by chance. He's been tryin to get attention for a long time with appearances like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeL-Fn0V8iU

>>18226970
lol what most of the applause was given to Peterson and most of Petersons audience is just as much liberal/conservative elites an

>>18228287
ahh u mad

>>18231226
That's just what you're making of the words I used. I didn't have that much emotion behind It, I'm just expressing it from that POV
Identity engineering is inseparable from religion.
It's the empiricism that's a meme imo, hence dogma, but therein lay an issue that people don't commit if they don't take it as full truth. Hence the masculine illusions itself for total belief.
I don't have a problem with there being a cultural identity at any given time.
It is still a doctrine inserted into people, in regards to the comment I was replying to.
But again the empiricism is what becomes a tool of manipulation. Maybe someday we can say "hey let's believe X and see what happens"

I have personal preference to more hands off approaches but that is entirely unrealistic today
What we can discuss is that these things are not empirical and we can then begin to move away from people being so easily manipulated, and into their own creation, conjuring self awareness and awareness of the system we are in

In order for things to take root we need belief
So how do we get on board with belief when we know any "law" or "dogma" is not eternal or empirical.

>>18225900
Dumbfuck directionbrain go back

>>18228544
In the land of the dimwit the midwitted man is king

>Intellectual
His whole shtick is scamming maladjusted manchildren out of their money. There's no intellectual substance in anything that he says, it's nothing but self help nonsense.

>>18231273
surely not fucking sam ''enlightment morality is the pinnacle of human achievement!'' harris

>>18233491
i think he genuinely believes what hes doing i dont take him as a con artist
but yes hes emboldened by his crowd

>>18233495
The point is that there's no value in anything that he says for anyone who has their lives together, and even if they don't he's not particularly insightful. There's nothing to him that you couldn't arrive at on your own.

>>18233493
harris can't see beyond himself

>>18233509
it should then go to show you the state of society that many young men struggle with these simple things so much that they'll flock to someone like peterson
im more inclined to point fingers at the environment, and peterson gives them some simple tools to potentially assist in improving their situation

Where does one start with Dosteyevsky?

>>18233689
White Nights

>>18234438
Thank you

>>18232504
That's just TVO. It's like Canadian PBS (but on a way smaller scale--barely a step above community access television).

It's very common for professors from UofT to go on it (off the top of my head, I've seen 5 of my profs just via channel surfing). One of my classes even had to attend a taping of it for credit. My friend's dad was even on it (more than once).

Saying he was trying to become famous because he was on TVO is like saying a botanist is seeking higher glory because they were on a segment of NPR. He was most likely sought out by them to fill time. I very much doubt that his intention was building a public persona; The Agenda is more like a televised version of something like the In Our Time radio show/podcast (only with more focus on current events).

All that said, Peterson was pretty famous at U of T already (long before he blew up). He was probably the most popular professor in the psychology department (and I'd heard of him by word of mouth before I went into that major). The reason for that is he was a really good professor and had a lot of charisma (alongside the fact that the 200 level course he taught was a prerequisite for a big chunk of upper-year psychology specializations; still though, I can't remember the name of the other prof who taught the other meeting section of that same course).

Stop trying to make him something he's not. If you don't like him--fine. But the snarkiness just comes off as a bit pathetic (more indicative of masturbatory pseudness or lame intellectual flexing...asserting you're somehow better than his audience).

>>18232504
That's just TVO. It's like Canadian PBS (but on a way smaller scale--barely a step above community access television).

It's very common for professors from UofT to go on that channel and that show, The Agenda, in particular (off the top of my head, I've seen 5 of my profs just via channel surfing). One of my classes even had to attend a taping of The Agenda for credit. My friend's dad has been on it (more than once).

Saying he was trying to become famous because he was on TVO is like saying a botanist is seeking higher glory because they were on a segment of NPR. He was most likely sought out by them to fill time. I very much doubt that his intention was building a public persona; The Agenda is more like a televised version of something like the In Our Time radio show/podcast (only with more focus on current events).

All that said, Peterson was pretty famous at U of T already (long before he blew up). He was probably the most popular professor in the psychology department (and I'd heard of him by word of mouth before I went into that major). The reason for that is he was a really good professor and had a lot of charisma (alongside the fact that the 200 level course he taught was a prerequisite for a big chunk of upper-year psychology specializations; still though, I can't remember the name of the other prof who taught the other meeting section of that same course).

Stop trying to make him something he's not. If you don't like him--fine. But the snarkiness just comes off as a bit pathetic (more indicative of masturbatory pseudness or lame intellectual flexing...asserting you're somehow better than his audience).

>>18231243
You still have not brought up any convincing argument loser. I'm not forcing it retard I brought up the fact that competence hierarchies are dominance hierarchies. And the main thing moving things forward, this desire to expand, is the will to power obviously. It's just you are too dumb to see that a plumber is not some automaton trying to get good at plumbing for no reason. Like what world do you live in? Consider suicide

>>18234736
Actually, I'm not the person with whom you were initially having the argument. I was surfing the board and noticed how stupid you were being and commented on it.

The reason you're a pseud, again, is because you're forcing the idea of power relationships into something like plumbing. You can LITERALLY make that argument about anything and everything (i.e. it's both overly reductive and a cliched insight).

It's dumb that you see a plumber as an automaton who took up that career to build power (to the neglect of dozens of other reasons he may have done so). It's also pretty stupid to assume that a given plumber will build an absolute monopoly on something like plumbing as if it's a zero-sum game. (It's not even like you were referring to something like a closed shop union; you were literally acting like someone working for themselves as a low-level plumber is behaving like a multinational corporation). For example, they may just charge more for their work (oh, does that mean he's gaining power over society because he's making more money???...fucking idiot). I personally know someone who built up a paving/landscaping business and does just that. He's in demand, doesn't want to expand, and charges more for his work (but he also gives a 5 year guarantee on his work instead of the usual 3...does that mean he's building an empire because the quality of his work is so high that other people lose their jobs??? Just like the broken window fallacy??? See, you're a fucking pseud).

That's why you're a retard. That's why I called you a pseud.

>>18234842
That was quite fast, maybe you should find another outlet for your will to power that does not involve arguing with strangers online, since this is indeed a zero sum game ;). Anyways again you say that there are other reasons that he got into plumbing yet you do not give any reasons, quite retarded of you to think someone would be compelled to do something for no reason. Also your tone is really strange I am not a leftist or socialist, I don't think the will to power is bad I actually think it is beyond good and evil ;). As far ad your plumber uncle who you admire so dearly I have to say he has climbed quite high for a plumber and now that he is at the top, his cup overflows so naturally he is very generous with his warranty plans. However notice that your boyfriend does not change less but rather choses to charge more? Why would he do such a strange thing, it must be a pure coincidence. I am really genuinely laughing at you. See what you do is you try and justify the will to grow and conquer by claiming it is something else entirely, almost as a concession or maybe to conceal (perhaps to women? or socialists? or maybe yourself?).

Not to blow your mind or anything but I did not come up with this, maybe you should read more or stop watching jp. Every answer you send me further proves my point, why are you wasting your time arguing with someone on the internet instead of just chilling? again kys also no one is seething more than the people you cousin has beaten in the game of pluming. kys

>>18225882
A.) He has to be accessible to his audience.

B.) We know he has at least some Hegel influence in his earlier interviews he talks about Phenomenology.

C.) What other intellectuals are there at this point? You have to start somewhere.

>>18234955
>That was quite fast
Yeah, I opened the window only a couple of minutes after you left that comment. Maybe Jung was on to something.
>arguing with strangers online
Projecting much? (I just said you were a pseud...the fact you were pathetically abrasive drew me into the discussion. Are you proud that your stupidity attracts people to you more than what you're trying to flex about).
> think someone would be compelled to do something for no reason
No, I said there could be multiple reasons (e.g. their father was a plumber, they like performing short increment closed goal-oriented tasks, they like pipe as much as your mom). I said you're a pseud because you made domination of other plumbers as the primary force lol.
>I am not a leftist or socialist
I never assumed you were. You sound more like someone who is into Ayn Rand or objectivism (because you argue in a closed-loop). You're dogmatic to the point of lacking self-awareness (which is a good thing when you're an idiot because you'll think you're winning when you're not).
>plumber uncle
Landscaper friend*
>notice that your boyfriend does not change less but rather choses to charge more
Notice that I predicted that line of argument in my previous comment? Because you're a pseud and your point is ideologically reductive (and stupid).
>See what you do is you try and justify the will to grow and conquer by claiming it is something else
No, I pointed out nuance. You're begging the question by making everything about "the will to power."
>Not to blow your mind or anything but I did not come up with this
Obviously not. It sounds like something a precocious high school student would say after hearing about Nietzsche for the first time. (The only thing you're blowing is yourself lol).
>wasting your time arguing with someone on the internet instead of just chilling
Hey, you started this. Also, you have about 20% of my attention (I'm drinking a coffee and watching Adam Curtis's new series...it's pretty good, you should check it out).

Ok. Are you going to write another ranting response? I might reply. You're an idiot, but the fact you're so dumb is pretty entertaining to me at this particular moment.

>>18231891
Hey! No problem (hope you're enjoying yourself).

>>18235028
Applied phenomenology is actually its own school in psychology (it's also more closely related to the original work of Husserl than Hegel). Knowing Peterson, he's probably familiar with the work of those mentioned above but he probably draws that influence mostly from Carl Rogers in particular and familiarity with Gestaltists like Kohler/Wertheimer/Rank. There's also the related Daseinsanalysis of Medard Boss and Ludwig Binswanger.

Prior to being a media personality, Peterson was a practicing clinical psychologist; most of what he speaks about in public comes from that (i.e. he isn't a philosopher; just philosophically minded). Alongside that, there's also the fact that psychology, as a relatively new science, is still very much directly in touch with its philosophical roots (and given that the subject matter is the psyche, it's likely it will remain philosophically oriented relative to other sciences).

>>18225887
I hate that this complete intellectual lightweight is popular around here and not based Moldbug

>>18235109
>father influences a child the term is literally called influence
>getting good at a skill is literally called mastery "master"
>In other languages mastery of a skill such as speaking language translate to "to own" "to dominate" "to posses" "to control"

The rest of your "arguments" can either be "reduced" to trying to show you don't care about this or that you have something better to do most likely spurred by my previous tone ;). Instead of saying you are watching Adam Curtis maybe you could have said "I am on a billionaires boat in Dubai". I also find your way of arguing quite feminine, I suspect you are a woman or would like to be, not that that debases the arguments you made, your arguments are terrible enough on their own.

Whether you read this or not does not matter to me at all, I do a derivative of this by myself all the time and I come up with better arguments than you have. You should not reply to me because I will not check this thread anymore I find your arguments and your way of speaking repulsive in a peptic sense. But seriously find something better to do.

>>18225887
>defending picasso as art
Yes, that helps

>>18228984
He's entry level. Deal with it or go back to the hole you came from.

>>18227318
>>18227352
The true artist was my man Bomber Harris.

>>18235648
>The rest of your "arguments"
My only argument is that you're a pseud. (As evidence, I pointed out that ideological, reductive, and beg the question). Oh, also that you're a retard because you don't realize it.
>you don't care about this or that you have something better to do
I care enough to respond to your behaviour (I find it amusing). I could obviously be doing something more productive than making puns about pipe/your mother (but everyone's entitled to entertainment from time to time).
>spurred by my previous tone
Well, conversations are a two-way street. But, with all your talk of domination, I think you're projecting a need for control; you see this as being as important to my self-esteem as it, so obviously, is to your own. You probably don't have much control in your life so you've built an online persona that's a mixture of (pseud) intellectualism and trolling. I'd feel sorry for you if your outlet wasn't a delusional idea of having control over strangers on 4chan...take your meds).
>I also find your way of arguing quite feminine
I know you're dumb, but that's the best troll move you could come up with? K.
> I do a derivative of this by myself all the time and I come up with better arguments than you have
Confirms that he argues with himself. Yeah, pretty sure you're a schizo. Also, you come up with better arguments for why you're a pseud/retard? Bro.
>You should not reply to me because I will not check this thread anymore
Asserting control? You know, it would be more meaningful if you didn't feel like you had to tell me that (and just did it). Also, you're assuming it's important to me (do you think that gives you control)? Like, do you think this is actually meaningful? We're strangers.
> find something better to do
I should probably be reading.

Anyway, you seem to be a pretty disturbed person. I know I've made a bunch of jokes at your expense (and I'm not going to erase them because you're still an asshole), but you should probably take care of yourself better. I genuinely feel bad for you. Don't kill yourself.