/lit/ - Literature

>>18225507
Nietzsche sometimes refers to Socrates as the "last of the pure thinkers" of Greece.

He autistically goes between favouring Plato or Socrates while pretending he doesn't like either that much at all.

>>18225561
No he doesn't. Neetch cope is so gay

>implying there was any seething at all

>>18225660
what is that, the kth root of A?

>>18225736
The dancing of a prophet

Ambiguity aside, Nietzsche does inherit a lot from Plato and even Socrates, and sees Plato as a genuine noble, but he sees how the old hierarchy is failing and how a new one needs to be built in order to restore the nobility. Twilight of the Idols is a necessary initiation into the first step towards building, which is joyful iconoclasm.

nietzsche's whole philosophy is him desperately wishing he was 20 years old again. barely even philosophy, really.

>>18225815
Cope

>spent his entire existence seething over christcucks

>>18225852
Try being original next time.

>>18225854
this but unironically

>>18225507
Nietzsche was a faggot that misunderstood the Greeks, the stoics, Darwinian evolution, Christianity, and pretty much everything he talked about. His death was probably a complication of the AIDS he got during the gay orgies he partook in in Sicily.

>>18225834
More accurately it was his struggle against a back injury and syphilis. He's romantic for the light and greatness. It is a philosophy of perveance though hard ship, and maybe if one does that enough they maybe become great regardless of life's sufferings.

>>18225873
>there can only be one interpretation of anything ever

>>18225873
NOOO HE WAS DRIVEN INTO MADNESS BY HIS SHEER INTELLECT!!!!!!!
INSANITY AND GENIUS ARE AN ANTHROPOLOGICAL CONSTANT!!!!!!!!!!

>>18225507
Shut the fuck up retard

>>18225923
I don't think even his supporters acutely believe this.

>>18225873
>pretends to understand the greeks more than Nietzsche
>>18225854
christians are equalists like any other (like liberals, like democrats and communists), who can't understand the necessity of hierarchy, evident in nature and in the very organization of the body

>>18225923
Can anyone find the actual neetch soijaks. They were posted a lot in february but then disappeared

>Thinks he created the concept of slave morality and uses it to attack the Gospels
>Concept of slave morality is in, and disavowed by, the Gospels

>>18225943
retard, slave morality is about resentment, not being horney

>>18225941

>>18225943
There's a thread summarizing master and slave morality here >>18223878

The problem with Christianity is that it intermingles the two.

>>18225950
You’re actually a fucking idiot who can’t zap together two simple neurons and figure out how this is directly related to the idea of “slave morality.”

>>18225965
go ahead and explain for us if its so easy

>>18225965
We're waiting

>>18225964
The problem is you have no understanding of the Gospels, nor did Nietzsche despite being the son of a pastor.

>>18225967
Sin comes from the will, not from the action. If you cannot understand this, take about five minutes and think about it. If you still don’t understand, give up.

>>18225990
>Sin
Christfags need a containment board

>>18225990
>muh Gospels
You don't know what slave morality is.

>>18226011
Can you talk about morality without mentioning sin?
> transgression, that which is disallowed

>>18226018
Which is completely subjective, so a rather useless point thanks for wasting everyone's time

but if you can go head a prove that god is real and Jesus is the Christ. (pro tip you cant is all schizo shit)

>>18225961
Based but there was one like this guy and yours turned to the right >>18225986

>>18226030
>Which is completely subjective
Read Plato and Aristotle before arguing about philosophy. Next

>>18226012
I do, and the Bible does as well, but if it helps your ego then you can pretend that it doesn’t because it doesn’t go into the useless verbiage of Nietzsche.

>>18226030
I'm not the guy, I just felt like interjecting. Morality is a fiction, made real through enforcement, just like all legal systems. And the word you're looking for is "perspective".

From the perspective of what conserves, betters and greatens life, for the group or for the individual, all of it is made valid.

>>18226093
>I do
Summarize it then

>>18226093
>Read Plato and Aristotle before arguing about philosophy. Next
seethe

>>18226094
yes I would agree to this

>>18226103
No

>>18226127
>(You)
faggot loser

>>18226138
I don’t care

>>18226127
Case closed then, you're bluffing and don't know what you're talking about. I even linked to a thread that describes it for you.

>>18226147
Thanks for the thread, it would help if I haven’t read Nietzsche’s entire bibliography including Beyond Good and Evil four times

making christcucks and betas seethe since 1872

>>18226162
>it would help if I haven’t read Nietzsche’s entire bibliography including Beyond Good and Evil four times

>>18226162
>he read it four times and still came to the retarded conclusion that Christianity is pure master morality
Sad

>>18226184
With commentary. Want to see my shelf?

>>18226190
Christianity addresses and bypasses master-slave morality

>>18226193
Bypasses as in blurs the line between the two, nurturing both in people (like in the case of Pascal).

>>18226193
Go on...

>>18226200
You’re using words alone to argue your point. Satan fell like lightning. There are no masters in this world besides God.

>>18226200
Consider the following: I have a much lower IQ than you. Yet I am much more logical. I am blurring the lines of intelligence (Like pascal)

>>18226191
>With commentary. Want to see my shelf?

>>18225939
>REE, Christianity is Communist!
>REE, the Church is too hierarchical!

>>18226216
>There are no masters in this world besides God.
This is a great example of how Christianity intermingles the two, for on the one hand a powerful reverence is expressed (which is a sentiment of the noble, master morality), but on the other hand it deliberately undermines all earthly hierarchies (a clever, vengeful maneuver on the slave's part) positing its reverence towards an equalizing entity.

>>18226223
Elaborate...

>>18226232
>is a sentiment of the noble, master morality), but on the other hand it deliberately undermines all earthly hierarchies (a clever, vengeful maneuver on the slave's part) positing its reverence towards an equalizing entity.
I really hope you’re not the person who I’ve been speaking to, you can’t be that stupid. “Go on...”

Explain very CAREFULLY how it deliberately “undermines” all “earthly hierarchies” (a clever... [ad hominem, not arguing the point. Overruled.]) positing it’s reverence towards an equalizing (funny as you’ll then go on to complain about how it’s not equal in Christianity) entity.

>>18226256
Explain further...

>>18226256
>Explain very CAREFULLY
I already did, but okay. You said "there are no masters in this world besides God," rejecting the authority of all masters here on earth. You say it outright: you don't believe in any "earthly" hierarchy. Only God is master. This God serves both as a point of reverence for you (master morality) and as an equalizing force that relieves your oppression here on earth (slave morality).

This is precisely how Christianity blends the two and how it is ultimately dangerous to nobility.

>>18226275
This concept serves both as a point of reverence for you (master morality) and as an equalizing force that relieves your oppression here on earth (slave morality).

>>18226275
This is precisely how Nietzsche blends the two and how he is ultimately dangerous to nobility.

>>18226275
Oh, the difference is Nietzsche is, like any satanist, trying to imitate God rather than, like any Saint, imitate Christ the pure incarnate imitation of God.

>>18226286
>>18226291
Are you having a stroke?

>>18226297
The whole nature of Nietzsche’s argument depends on eternal return (this is tragic and likes to be covered up by his followers. “Ah just a thought experiment!”) which he futilely tried to prove scientifically by claiming a materially limited universe given a infinite amount of time would have to eternally recreate itself. A stupid simple thought which is now proven wrong by quantum physics. Unfortunately, Nietzsche also, while commuting this hilarious and sad blunder, makes the assumption that Christian theology isn’t true. What argument can he make from this standpoint? Something as silly as yours. The assumption here is that Christian theology is level with philosophy (further demonstrated by his pathetic fumbling “Thus Spake Zarathustra”). So once again, it comes to belief. And Nietzsche argues like Satan in the wilderness.

>>18226325
Nietszche likes to refrain from larger, more existential questions about the nature of the universe and of God, which are central to theology. About God? No more like, “Did God really say you couldn’t eat the fruit from the tree?”

>>18226296
Nietzsche isn't imitating God, but he reveres himself and others, which is why he rejects statements like "there are no masters in this world other than God" and realizes how they are an intermingling of master and slave morality.

>>18226325
>starts rambling out of left field
Holy shit you're imploding

>>18226337
>Nietzsche isn't imitating God, but he reveres himself and others
And that was an illusion. As illusory as your use of the present tense. “Reveres” HA! Revered. Where is he now? Answer me, where is he now? And the others?

>>18226347
When I understand you clearly, but you cannot understand me, this is what we call a disconnect on your side.

>>18226337
Apocalypse: end of an illusion.

>>18226353
You got called out and now you're acting like a child. Take your stupid illusion "argument" and vanity elsewhere because it won't do you any good here.

>>18226407
Viewed and ignored

>>18226412
Seethe harder.

>>18226427
Again, you have to present something of substance to be engaged with rather than try to attack me. May I ask if you are in America? If so, please go to bed.

>>18226353
Where is your god retard doesn't seem too involved from what I see.

>>18226443
>y-you didn't provide anything of s-substance
>a-are you American by chance?
This level of cope is just sad now. I'd tell you to kill yourself but I imagine you're already contemplating it.

>>18226452
Viewed and ignored

>>18226470
>"ignored"
>still replies
Alright, how about this: can you explain how your statement, "there are no masters in this world besides God" does not contain any slave morality (i.e., morality that seeks to equalize and relieve itself from "earthly" hierarchies)? Surely it is the slave and not the master who wishes to do away with "earthly" hierarchies since it is he who feels oppressed by them, no? Yet the statement is straightforward in its desire to equalize in this way.

>>18226489
Good masters serve the “slaves.” Bad masters are killed. If you had read your Plato you’d know this. Masters have masters have masters

>>18225925
I think you might be the only one here who actually read my post.

>>18226325
>>18225943
>>18225854
>>18225507

>>18226507
Yes, masters revere, both themselves and their slaves, but there was a lack of reverence for everything besides God in the statement that was made before.

>>18225507
I made this image along with some others

>>18227226
This is based on the assumption that death is either the end, or there is eternal return. Once again, two illogical stupid fucking ideas. There’s a reason Nietzsche was forgotten

>>18228243
When it comes to death, everything said is based on "assumption." And if Nietzsche was forgotten why the fuck are there constant threads about him across the internet?

>>18229249
Yes, and his assumption is different from the Christian assumption. So he’s arguing from a view point which is illogical to a Christian. At best, he can tempt people by promising them power, material gain, and acclaim, so he tempts just the same as Satan in the wilderness. Again, nothing new to Christians. We don’t care.

>>18225913
I feel like ideally I should apply Nietzsche's philosophy to my own life but I'm just too much of a weak piece of shit to not give up and avoid pain
I guess I just like Nietzsche from an aesthetic standpoint or something

>>18229285
>So he’s arguing from a view point which is illogical to a Christian.
So, what's the big deal? He wasn't writing for Christians anyway (or "materialists" for that matter).

>At best, he can tempt people by promising them power, material gain, and acclaim
That has nothing to do with him. You're just intimidated by the idea of considering an alternative perspective.

>>18227226
Ah yes the Kitties Are So Nice Argument against God.

>>18229308
Promising them power through his philosophy has nothing to do with him, alright ahuh. His philosophy is quite literally based around power. The will to power. Just as Freud’s is the will to pleasure. Nah, actually I don’t understand him. No one understands Nietszche except for the people who like him right?

>>18226325
>A stupid simple thought which is now proven wrong by quantum physics.
How can you be literally wrong like this

>>18229446
The universe does not repeat itself

>>18229459
Eternal recurrence is a matter of tempo for Nietzsche, it's not a matter of "this is how it is and that's it." Quantum physicists will learn this eventually (it's why they are still uncertain about things like Big Bounce theory)

>>18226232
There's no blending here. Christian "reverence" is for an otherworldly, negative concept--negative in the sense that it is principally defined in terms of its separateness from the apparent goods of the world. They regard the world as they experience it to be an evil world, and regard Good as something achieved by subtraction. It's the religion of ressentiment par excellence.

>>18229492
>They regard the world as they experience it to be an evil world
They have a point though, suffering exists in everything

>>18225939
>hierarchy
>evident in the very organization of the body
How?

>>18229492
Any sincere reverence is going to be noble, that's how it blends the two. Not to say that all Christians are sincere.

>>18229459
>The universe does not repeat itself
I understand you think "quantum physics proves this", but I doubt you could coherently elaborate on *how* you think this is proven. Given enormous time frames, even a universe in thermal equilibrium (under certain conditions) has an almost certain probability of returning to some previous state. The Poincare recurrence theorem is consistent with quantum mechanics. So whatever refutation you think exists, it would have to be some kind of cosmological argument, not quantum mechanical.

>>18226094
>Morality is a fiction, made real through enforcement, just like all legal systems.
You have, by far, one of the basest takes on 'morality' yet. Not even Nietzsche was this simple-minded.

Morality is an objective ramification of the construct of reality. Like how a triangle necessarily has three sides, not because of the 'name' triangle, or the axioms adopted to explain it, but because of its necessary existence. This is how morality exists.

>>18229521
The point is that in Nietzsche's framework, Christian "reverence" is not reverence at all in the sense of master morality. The primary concept is Evil (the world, sin, the earthly masters), and Good is simply its negation. In a master morality, the primary concept of Good is one's own good.

>>18229526
Recommend me books so I can learn about all of this

>>18229562
Are you asking for textbooks on quantum and thermodynamics? It basically doesn't matter, take a university course. I should emphasize I'm not claiming thermodynamics theorems prove eternal recurrence is real. I'm claiming that "quantum physics proves eternal recurrence wrong" is nonsense. Eternal recurrence still might not happen because e.g. the universe as a whole may in fact have infinite space, which would mean the recurrence theorem doesn't apply.

>>18229559
Overall I agree, I wasn't trying to make Christianity seem like it was balanced between the two or not primarily slave morality. The problem is that, because it makes deceptive use of both Greek / Roman philosophy and Judaic myth, it seduced the nobility into adopting it, so many genuinely noble natures brought their naturally reverential attitude into the religion, making it a confusing mess. That's why we have images of passionate martyrs throughout history (passion and reverence being the domain of the nobles). Nietzsche sees the religion as being intentionally designed this way, which is why he calls the religion "Plato for the masses" and calls Plato a "poison-mixer."