/lit/ - Literature

>>18220219
The Brothers Karamazov

>>18220219
DSM-V

Do Orthodoxists even follow the bible? I thought they just follow the tradition

>>18221055
Bible and tradition is the same thing, you oxygen thief.

>>18220964
Holy... based

>>18221082
What do you mean?

>>18221119
The books of the Bible were selected, via inspiration of the Holy Spirit, by the Church Fathers at the Ecumenical Councils. What you call the Bible is technically a canon list of the most worthwhile and holy examples of written accounts of Christ. Ergo, scripture is in some sense a function of tradition because the Christian tradition must necessarily precede the formation of the Bible on earth and that Bible would likely not have taken shape in the first place without it.

>>18221276
But I thought some use only the Bible as we have it, while Orthodoxists also incorporate things that entered tradition after the Bible was compiled

>>18220964
Meme tier and very sectarian list. Not Orthodox
>>18221033
Much better selection, but should include more of the church fathers

>>18220964
It seems too guenonian. Guenon is not a necessary path, instead it can lead to other traditions or to some confusion.
Some basic stuff like crisis of the modern world can be good but even then, just for an outside, not orthodox, perspective.
Lots of orthodox appreciate him though. Just that it's for someone sure of his orthodox faith.

>>18220219
>aside from the Bible
Yes, this is exactly what they do so you are off to a great start.

I don't understand Orthodox, they don't seem to give a shit about the bible. Like why follow these old sects of Christianity when they don't even consider the word of God? They just had some way of doing things and thinking about energy and essence but there is essentially nothing to back it up.

>>18221849
They are just LARPers, they like to dress up in costumes and grow hair and beard trying to look like "the bible days" but have no sense of urgency to carry out anything Jesus taught, and in fact Revelation is the only book they do not read aloud in actual church services. On top of that they are Mary worshipers like the Catholics and pray directly to her and to alleged "saints". They haven't produced a full English language bible after all this time despite having lots of monks just sitting around in monasteries with plenty of time, and they don't build churches in places that would badly need them if they were truly the only institutional source for salvation. All that matters to them is LARPing in nationalistic communities, which is why they are popular on 4chan.

>>18221989
>They haven't produced a full English language bible
they dont want americans.

>>18222007
They know Americans aren't man hand kissers.

>>18222036

>>18221276
This is also explains why sola scriptura is a fake and gay heresy.

>>18222075
No it doesn't, once the Bible was determined and set that was it, Sola Scriptura became possible. Not only that but the Caths and Orths even got the canon wrong, it's only 66 and that's verified by Isaiah.

>>18221849
They read the bible everyday as a rule, what is your point ? You can read the bible and Luther to better understand it, the same with fathers of the church (who always just extract the honey from the scriptures)
The distinction between essence and energy is just the distinction between God in his nature and in his sharing of grace to those adopted by him. This distinction between saints and God existed from the beginning.
>>18221989
You are jealous they keep being spiritual and not activist of the faith like you and others.
They are stably seated in tradition, you are tightly agitated in secularization.

>>18222126
>They are stably seated in tradition
Is that what Jesus taught to be? I thought Jesus taught to keep your lamps oiled and ready for his return at any moment and to carry out his instructions with urgency. I didn't see him saying anything about seating yourself stably and he also did a lot of blasting of tradition. Again, it seems that Orthodox do not read their Bibles.

>>18222164
You just play with words, like a pharisee
>he also did a lot of blasting of tradition
I don't see this word in the bible, wasn't he supposed to accomplish them ? Again, it seem that proties do not read their bible.
Also don't you remember the virgin waited for the bridegroom ?
So yes, the stability is one of the main theme of the bible. Don't be jealous because you don't have it.
>No one can be established through wickedness, but the righteous cannot be uprooted. Proverbs 12: 3

>>18220902
second this

>>18222275
>can't tell the difference between law, prophesies, and traditions
My stability is the solid rock from before the foundation of the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNlZXwyYoao

>>18222339
protestantism has no stability
>Matthew 7: 24
>Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Your lack of stability is one of multiple signs of your inherent problem. You built your church on sand : personal interpretation of the bible.

>>18222398
>can't grasp not putting faith in some sort of earthly label rather than God
You've made Orthodoxy an idolatry filled idol. I do not worship Protestantism, nor do I ever consider the word Protestant in any other context than as a contrast against Catholicism/Orthodoxy, a mere term of convenience for the conventions of communication. My stability is in direct relationship with God above all else.

>>18222580
yeah, exactly what I said, you have your own individual faith. Protestantism is individualism applied to religion.
>My stability is in direct relationship with God above all else.
If you believe you are already saint and better than all the Christians before you, that needed a church.

random question about Christianity not worthi making a thread.

Have there been any cases of atheist having a mental breakdown over being defeated by christian apologist in debate?

>>18222776
dawkins sperged out when people told him to debate William Lane Craig

>>18222781
>William Lane Craig

I hear he is the best in the game.

>>18221989
What denomination are you? I like the way you think

>>18220219
The Mountain of Silence

>>18222857
The "read the Bible" and pray a ton daily denomination.

>>18220219
this is the reading list my priest gave me;
>the sayings of the desert fathers
>the way of the ascetics by tito colliander
>the four part "orthodox faith" series by fr. hopko
I also just read a lot of inklings/catholic revival authors; lewis, tolkien, charles williams, gk chesterton, belloc, bernanos, etc.
they're pretty much the inter-denominational intellectual basis for lay theology, chesterton and williams are really the underrated (but highest quality) of those writers
that'd be a pretty great foundation to start with

>>18222937
What translation do you read?
What kind of prayer?

>>18223129
KJV and ESV primarily.
Prayer is something you just need to do a lot of and find your Way with. I do Psalm 23 and the Lord's Prayer a lot but otherwise for anyone else to tell you how to do it or that the way you do it is "wrong" is getting in the way of (You) and God communing. I cannot assume that what "works" for me will be the same for anyone else, nor the "results". The important thing is for you to do your own personal absolute best, regularly, as constantly as possible.

>>18223266
Are there any podcasts or audiobooks?

sorry for asking so many questions. I am lost in my Christian ways and I am looking for people who resonate with me. Your approach seems edifying to me.

>>18222937
There's a word for that you know...

Can some Orthobros help me with a question I have?

I think God is likely real but I do sometimes wonder why its so easy to live life as if he wasn't. In the OT and NT the spiritual world seemed a lot closer to our physical world with angels, God and demons being a lot more in your face. Now it seems increasingly rare to ever hear of encounters with that world and they're never on the same level as the scripture (to my knowledge).

Now I'm not saying I want some crazy spiritual experience as I know that can go sideways quick but I'm more wondering why it seems like the Ariel world has almost completely disappeared?

A thought I had was that UFO's ghosts and all that shit are just the new names for it and it never went any where.

I read someone claiming that reading Paul's letters makes it pretty evident that he was merely grifting to form a death cult - and these letters are some of the basis for the original bible or something? I'm from Midwest, USA and am a Christianlet, just know enough for what passes in common cultural parlance but this sounds interesting. Never cared much about the bible's origins, always assumed it was a mish mash of oral traditions and many translations but this letters thing sounds interesting. Any truth to it or some articles you could point me to?

>>18223504
I listen to various things just because I like to be "thinking/learning about God" constantly but none of that is anything I can say is reflective of my views, which come from *reading the Bible and praying a lot*. The "podcasts" (I just listen to YT videos) I listen to are more of what I would class as Biblical "entertainment" rather than "go there to hear things that are related to my views". For example, I enjoy listening to Michael Heiser sometimes, and Tim MacKie. Sometimes they provide background factoids regarding the Bible that I find interesting/useful, but it's nothing to do with them teaching things that "shape my views".

my diary desu

>>18223550
And what mighten it be?

>>18223866
>>18223266
I got 2 dubs of 66 in this one thread. God is with me proving Protestant canon of 66 books confirmed by Isaiah.

>>18223947
Protestant dude.

Kallistos Ware - The Orthodox Church
John Behr - The Mystery of Christ
John Zizioulas - Being as Communion
Alexander Schmemann - For the Life of the World
John Meyendorff - Byzantine Theology

>>18223992
Well yes, I just do not "identify" as such other than when making contextual contrasts for the sake of discussion. I never just sit around thinking "I am Protestant" in the same manner that an Orth or Cath seems to tend to.

>>18220219
I am currently reading this one which comes highly recommended.

Definitely feels like a really good introduction.

>>18224320
Interesting that they have their own beliefs rather than just Christian ones.

>>18224385
listen here you intolerable fuckwit, "mere christianity" does not exist, and dogma acquired over the thousands of years humans have been experience the mysteries of God is not a form of apostasy
Christ came to this world to give gifts (the sacraments) and established a foundation to give and spread those gifts (the earthly church)
apostolic succession is real and the fruits of forgetting church history are demon worshipping pentecostal apocalypse cults actively laying the foundation for the antichrist

>>18225133
Interesting that the gift Christ came to give wasn't just salvation from sin and eternal life with him, but was instead special rituals for your "Church™". Interesting how you speak ill of Pentecostalism and claim Apostolic Succession is real, yet your "Church™" bears no fruits of Pentecost. Interesting how you claim that others are laying the foundations for antichrist when your "Church™" literally prays to beings other than God, claiming that they are Mary and alleged "saints". Interesting how Jesus outright stated not to call religious leaders Father yet that's exactly what you call your "priests". On and on and on.

>>18225175
first of all church is not capitalized when it is referred to in the worldly sense, as to distinguish our church from the Church
second, we bore the fruits of pentecost in Acts
funny how in the 1920s, when methodist ministers started experiencing the fruits of a "second" pentecost they were unable to speak in foreign languages (xenoglossia) to conduct mission work
it's also funny how a spiritual tool, given by the holy spirit to evangelize, could not be used for such purposes by pentecostal ministries and led to the controversial adoption of speaking in supernatural tongues (glossolalia) as the "new" pentecost (which led to the splintering and deracination of the movement's inital theological bent)
it's also funny that modern pentecostal theology is a rehashing of an old sect called the montanists, who claimed to be experiencing a "second" pentecost during spanning the 4th to 10th century, ending in the sect committing mass suicide
thirdly, praying for holy people to help you and intercede on your behalf, in order to help you on your spiritual journey, is not praying "to" them the way we pray to God
fourthly, the priest is an icon of Christ, he takes on the symbolic role of Christ when giving communion (granted to him through the sacrament of ordination) in this sense it is appropriate to call him father
pentecostalism is a dispensationalist demon possessed cult of the antichrist that tricks humble protestant christians (whom I love and respect) into joining them by not telling them the history behind their non-christian religion founded on a demon-fabricated second pentecost that happened in america during the 1920s

>>18225259
Yeah, we'll just be over here at Carthage where there aren't so many squares trying to lay low so they don't get martyred by Aurelius.

>>18220964
>>18221033
>>18221368

t. Niggas in prelest

Read:
On the Incarnation by Athanasius
The Orthodox Way by Timothy Ware
For the Life of the World by Schemamnn

- My Priest.

Am Catholic and respect Orthodox frens. But I feel like you guys hate us.

>>18222090
>and that's verified by Isaiah
what did he mean by this

What really draws me to Orthodoxy is their view on mans relationship to God. Most prots, especially here in America, rejoice and see themselves as saved. They're smugly confident in the fact that they're going to heaven because they accept Jesus Christ as their personal (ouch) lord and saviour.

Where as Orthodoxy can be best summed up in the Noetic prayer
>Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner
Man kind isnt a child on Christmas, surrounded by God's gifts. No man is begging God for mercy, begging for his forgiveness, he sees how good God is, and how much evil is within himself, and can only beg that God will throw him a rope.

Theres a story that, after the passion, and until his death, Peter would cry every day because he rejected Jesus those three times. Now if Jesus really just wanted your adoration, if saying his name was all it took, why would his best friend be so wracked with guilt?

>>18226101
There are 66 chapters in Isaiah. The chapters were set in the 1200s when Deut/Apoc were everyone's canon by a man who had no way of knowing that hundreds of years later there would be.a Protestant Reformation with canon of 66 books. The 40th book is the beginning of the NT with the Gospels, and the 40th chapter of Isaiah is what John the Baptist quoted when heralding the arrival of Jesus' ministry. The 66th chapter likewise reflects the Book of Revelation. There are other parallels but these are the blatant ones I most readily noticed when discovering this.

>>18225816
nobody cares outside the internet

>>18226158
I think John was Jesus' best friend.

>>18220219
collected YouTube works of Jay Dyer (PBUH)

>>18225816
And then there's Protestants.

>>18222795
He is an evidentialist. Look in to presuppositional apologetics, in particular Bahnsen (influenced by Van Til)
https://youtu.be/ZLZdOGCE5KQ

>>18225816
Treatment is like how some catholics treat prots, and usually people really don't care.

>>18220219
go to church, attend the service, talk to other people and the priest afterwards. you can’t begin to ‘understand orthodoxy’ starting from your desk.

>>18223755
>A thought I had was that UFO's ghosts and all that shit are just the new names for it and it never went any where.
you got it

>>18222090
There's only 66 books as verified by revanchist Jews from the 7th century.

>>18225816
I like catholics, you're guys' architecture and musicology (high latin mass) are off the charts, but there are some theological issues
over all most orthodox people I know are pretty friendly to protestants and catholics, as long as they're not zoomers
>>18226158
very good analysis
it's not groveling, it's the kind of joy (for lack of a better word) that shows itself after looking at the event of Christ overcoming death for too long

this guy is rad as hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_4LDDkcWCE&list=PLbDsxw-e0m3mIkapUEZ_-5BEOr19F4t73

>>18226259
ok schizo
reminder that Luther wanted to chuck James in the garbage. also most modern English bibles are based off of the talmudists masoretic text and not the actual word of God.

>>18228335
>what Luther wanted to do matters in any of this
I don't make an idol out of Luther. Orths and Caths seem to think one should make idols out of men and here you are trying to project that onto Protestantism.

>>18228350
sorry, I forgot that every man is a prophet, which is a totally safe and true doctrine which definitely didnt create our modern secular hellscape.

>>18228432
isn't this kind of maybe an implication of Pauls letters?

>>18228432
>this stupid take
No, what you forget is that God, all through the Holy Bible that you do not read, uses imperfect humans to carry out His divine will. God saw that His church had long been under the stranglehold of stupid and corrupted men who'd even gone so far as to merge the church institution with the earthly state (shiggy diggy). He obviously arranged to have that monopoly broken up, thus freeing humans to worship and serve him as each sees fit according to their callings. You also fail to realize that when it comes to God, quality>quantity. What a majority does is far less important than the few who most properly answer the voice of the Shepherd, most of whom you will never hear nor read the names of here in the world. Most legitimate saints are, for most of the world, completely anonymous.

>>18226815
You can to an extent, you can read about orthodoxy, or any religion, but its very different from living the religion.

>>18228432
>the Byzantine and Catholic Empires weren't total hellscapes

>>18228569
>Catholic Empires
tard

>>18228569
unironically though what was the relationship between the orthodox church and the empire like?

is it correct that orthos basic attitude to legalism is the same as Paul, that everything is allowed but not everything is beneficial? And (so far, I'm reading the epistles) that only some very exeptional things can render you at least temporarily excommunicated (like Paul says about fornicators)?

>tfw don't believe Jesus is God
>tfw do believe Jesus is the surest way to God

>>18228516
Way to set the stage for the next steps of nihilism, universalism, ecumenism extending to all "faiths" and so forth

>>18228899
No, not everything is allowed. Sin remains sin (which is fundamentally going against God's will as described in the Scriptures).

You must humble yourself, repent of your pride and sin, and follow God's commandments. No, you won't get it perfectly and that is what confession, mercy. and forgiveness are for, but you must TRY.

>>18229589
what I mean is: has the orthodox church embraced a doctrine of punishment, for instance lashings or have they endorsed prison sentences for sins? Or has the church been separate from the state in this?

>>18220219
Since all the riches of this world
May be gifts from the devil and Earthly kings
I should suspect that I worshipped the devil
If I thanked my God for worldly things
-Blake

>>18229676
the reason you thank God for worldly things is to recognize your complete dependence upon Him. It is not better to enjoy worldly things and not thank God. It may be better not to enjoy worldly things, that I can't say anything about, but if you do enjoy them you should thank Him.

bump