/lit/ - Literature

every thought and quote of this guy that I come across is retarded

>>18220797
OP we live in a time where some people think exercising self control is a form of fascism. I could have two girlfriends but I choose not to, tell the Jews to watch out!

>>18220797
Kek, can you show us the exact passage?

>>18220797
>Bertrand Arthur William Russell, 3rd Earl Russell OM FRS[65] (18 May 1872 – 2 February 1970) was a _British_ polymath.
dropped

>>18220797
Anon, that's a meme book and nobody takes it seriously. Russell is peak midwit.

>>18220854

>>18220797
Russell was a practicing cuckold

Not reading copleston or durant
>NGMI

>Philosophers, Socrates continues, try to dissever the soul from communion with the body, whereas other people think that life is not worth living for a man who has "no sense of pleasure and no part in bodily pleasure." In this phrase, Plato seems-perhaps inadvertently--to countenance the view of a certain class of moralists, that bodily pleasures are the only ones that count. These moralists hold that the man who does not seek the pleasures of sense must be eschewing pleasure altogether, and living virtuously. This is an error which has done untold harm. In so far as the division of mind and body can be accepted, the worst pleasures, as well as the best, are mental--for example, envy, and many forms of cruelty and love of power. Milton's Satan rises superior to physical torment, and devotes himself to a work of destruction from which he derives a pleasure that is wholly of the mind. Many eminent ecclesiastics, having renounced the pleasures of sense, and being not on their guard against others, became dominated by love of power, which led them to appalling cruelties and persecutions, nominally for the sake of religion. In our own day, Hitler belongs to this type; by all accounts, the pleasures of sense are of very little importance to him. Liberation from the tyranny of the body contributes to greatness, but just as much to greatness in sin as to greatness in virtue.

>The Prince is concerned to discover, from history and from contemporary events, how principalities are won, how they are held, and how they are lost. Fifteenth-century Italy afforded a multitude of examples, both great and small. Few rulers were legitimate; even the popes, in many cases, secured election by corrupt means. The rules for achieving success were not quite the same as they became when times grew more settled, for no one was shocked by cruelties and treacheries which would have disqualified a man in the eighteenth or the nineteenth century. Perhaps our age, again, can better appreciate Machiavelli, for some of the most notable successes of our time have been achieved by methods as base as any employed in Renaissance Italy. He would have applauded, as an artistic connoisseur in statecraft, Hitler's Reichstag fire, his purge of the party in 1934, and his breach of faith after Munich.

>Kant, like Darwin, gave rise to a movement which he would have detested. Kant was a liberal, a democrat, a pacifist, but those who professed to develop his philosophy were none of these things. Or, if they still called themselves Liberals, they were Liberals of a new species. Since Rousseau and Kant, there have been two schools of liberalism, which may be distinguished as the hard-headed and the soft-hearted. The hard-headed developed, through Bentham, Ricardo, and Marx, by logical stages into Stalin; the soft-hearted, by other logical stages, through Fichte, Byron, Carlyle, and Nietzsche, into Hitler.

LOL, is he incapable of not viewing the world in respect to Hitler?

I love this book. Reading it right now. It’s so well written. It also makes both /lit/ and r*ddit seethe which is a huge bonus

>>18220904
>All they end of doing is rationalizing their religious beliefs
Based

>>18220891
>>18220867
>>18220797

I am not Russell's biggest fan, but in his defence, AHOWP was written during WW2 and therefore his conception of what was at stake regarding Hitler etc. would have much more menace and gravity towards it.
To us, he's just that guy who lost. in 1940, it wasn't so clear cut, and you have to remember that all accessible information in that time was vetted and filtered through the war propaganda-machine.

It is far less embarassing than the people who use Hitler as a byword for evil now.

>>18220922
>To us, he's just that guy who lost.
Not to all of us...

>>18220930
Go back

>>18220948
in time and prevent his death. Sorry my post got cut short

>>18220930

>>18220956
>in time and prevent his death.
good idea, the trial and hanging would be kino.

>>18220973

>>18220867
this is unironically a good point, Russellchads win again

>>18220930
Based
>>18220973
>>18220978
Why are lefties so hateful?

>>18221323
>>18220922
>Lebensraum and Blut und Boden persists in an platonic-ascetic liberation from the body and the "pleasures of sense"
lol, next up Russell will call both Nietzsche and Plato allies of Hitler

AHAHAHA

My body my choice!

>>18220867
>>18220891
And of course OP misunderstood a very simple argument (rejecting bodily pleasures doesn't automatically make you moral and there are good examples that show it). Not that Russell's point is accurate with regard to Plato specifically (Plato said nothing of the sort), but OP got filtered hard like the retard he is.

>>18220816
Maybe you're a retard then.

>>18221402
His entire point is to make you associate Plato with le scary boogeyman Hitler. It's a psychological argument, not a logical one.

>>18220981
Kek

>>18220867
How can plato 'perhaps inadvertently' reference moralists who won't be born for another 2000 years? Fucking retard.

The fact that this books is used as an introductory textbook all across the English speaking world is embarrassing and simply despising. Russel should be treated merely as a guy whose sole job was to accommodate Wittgenstein at Cambridge. Aren’t there better introductory texts available in English?

>>18220867
i'm glad i didn't read this pseud's book
someone post that quote of witty's, you know the one
the guy really was right about russell

>>18220867
What did he say that was incorrect? Hitler didn't even like being a politician he would rather sit on the porch stroking his dog. All his closest friends said the worst thing about him was he rambled on too much. If that's the worst thing a politician is capable of then is he really what you think he is?
>in b4 muh 6 gorillion

Hitler wasn't ascetic.

>>18220978
>good idea, the trial and hanging would be kino
He got the last laugh and effectively disappeared into the ether. Stay mad armlet.

>>18220973
>follow your leader
Why would I go to Argentina anon?

>To us, he's just that guy who lost.
God I can almost smell the midwit brain cells ticking.
>war propaganda-machine.
Kek.

>>18220922
>>18221482

>>18221469
>a quote my a homosexual pedophile that wanted to overthrow Hitler's regime
Yeah, I'm sure that's a reliable quotation anon.

Russell is a fraud

>>18221469
>Hitler was an ASSman

Based

>>18221357
>lol, next up Russell will call both Nietzsche and Plato allies of Hitler
Nietzsche was Hitlers favorite philosopher.

>>18221469
>>18221496
He knew too much

>>18221501
No, that was Schopenhauer

>>18221501
Yeah, Elizabeth Foerster-Nietzsche.

>>18221503
Kek

>>18221511
Her interpretation of Nietzsche's work is a lot closer to what he represents compared to what these left-wing Nietzscheans nowadays think he represents. You can blame Deleuze for that one. Hitler was the both Nietzsche's ubermensch and Spengler's Caesar, he had all of the qualities.

>>18220891
>Rousseau
>liberal
HAHAHAHAAH WHO THE FUCK READS RUSSELL

>>18221482

Are you aware that things like pic related existed and were the main source of information for most soldiers?
Are you aware that the newspapers, radio broadcasts and cinema shows were programmed and written under the command of the same people, for morale and to minimise the risk of important information reaching spies?
Are you aware just how much of people's information, and therefore speculation were utterly controlled?

Hitler is the guy who lost. We do not see him as an existential threat. I really don't understand your point. Try reading Ellul's propaganda or Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent if you're retarded.

>>18221501
Hitler was Karl May-pilled foremost of all

>The stories were so popular that Nazi Germany did not ban them despite the heroic treatment of people of color; instead, the argument was made that the stories demonstrated the fall of the American aboriginal peoples was caused by a lack of racial consciousness.

>May's heroes drew on archetypes of Germanic culture and had little to do with actual Native American cultures. "Winnetou is noble because he combines the highest aspects of otherwise 'decadent' Indian cultures with the natural adoption of the romantic and Christian traits of Karl May's own vision of German civilization. As he is dying, the Apache Winnetou asks some settlers to sing an Ave Maria for him, and his death is sanctified by his quiet conversion to Christianity."

>>18221544
>Huns trying to claim Waterloo
Fuck off cunts it's ours.

>>18220797
MI:6 psyop

>>18220891
>A History of Western Philosophy, or How Hitler Came to Be

>>18220797
This is actually better, non biased and explores religious ideas unlike Russell.

>>18221534
>Are you aware that things like pic related existed and were the main source of information for most soldiers?
Yes. So what?
>Are you aware that the newspapers, radio broadcasts and cinema shows were programmed and written under the command of the same people, for morale and to minimize the risk of important information reaching spies?
Yes. What do you expect they were at war. You don't understand the actual tenants of National Socialism so obviously you are going to fear monger about some authoritarian boogeyman false dichotomy whenever all of your information is currently stored in some Chinese database free of charge and you don't seem to give a shit.
>Are you aware just how much of people's information, and therefore speculation were utterly controlled?
Yes. Free press is a meme.
>Hitler is the guy who lost. We do not see him as an existential threat.
Who is "we"? JIDF?
>Try reading Ellul's propaganda
Already read it. Pretty good for a Jewish author I was expecting more pilpul.
>Chomsky
No.

>>18220930
Based.

>>18221469
This, like most "muh natzee" quotes is probably apocryphal but I find the idea of Hitler (PBUH) being an ass-man extremely endearing.

>>18221581
Oh, you think I was being anti-Hitler? What a retard.
I was being facetious when I said he is "just the guy who lost". In war time, we would have the same information that Russell did, and would conclude that Hitler was as bad as everyone said, because of the ongoing war, dead family-members and rubble at our feet.
I was making a point about context and you actually made it about ideology.
What a sperg.

>>18221544
Based department. People don't even understand that Hitler's regime banned human zoos at a time in America they were still widely practiced. They banned animal vivisections, animal testing, and promoted nature conservation policies. Jesse Owens has nothing negative to say about his time in Germany either, in his autobiography he talks about how welcomed he was by the German people.

>>18221601
Hey look don't blame me man honest mistake.

.

>>18220797
I knew that book was cringe when he rejected Nietzche by saying he had faith on human goodness or some shit

>>18221611
I'm sorry for calling you a retard. I should have phrased my point more clearly. I was only being facetious because certain statements summon the bunkerchan brigade.

>>18220867
>>18220891
Seems less of a history of philosophy and more of a biased critique from the stance of his own philosophy.

>>18221621
That image really does sell it, in every single Russell thread.

>>18221640
Certain philosophers, notably Plato, Aquinas, Nietzsche, it definitely is.
But his more general chapters about the history of certain periods like Hellenic Greece and the shift to ethics from metaphysics after the Athenian Periclean age to cope with the Macdeonian and Roman subjugation are quite insightful and well-written.
His Catholic Philosophy section is quite netural considering how vitriolic the modern atheist is regarding any theology.

>>18220930
Based Department? All lines are busy?

>>18220797
I remember I saw this piece of trash book in my local library in my retarded small eastern european town. Opened an random page and saw him defending muslims. I don't think I will ever read anything from him.

>>18220948
>>18220973
>>>>Reddit

>>18220904
Yes any time /lit/ seethes about Russell they channel their inner Reddit, but they're still too stupid to realize they're being Reddit for hating Russell. They're convinced Russell is a Reddit philosopher instead. They have things totally upside down. Reddit loves continentals and ancient philosophers far more, which is 100% the /lit/ attitude.
>>18220797
>>18220867
>>18220891
Damn OP you got filtered hard. Russell is right. The more dangerous pleasures are the ones that give you mental pleasure because they can come about through committing all kinds of atrocious behaviors. Russell wasn't making the argument you attribute to him at all. He wasn't saying Plato was Hitler, he was saying Hitler is an example of why mental pleasures are worse than bodily pleasures, which is just a counter-example to Plato, and a good one. Philosophers are supposed to give counterexamples to each other, Plato did it endlessly to his opponents.
>>18221628
The thing is Wittgenstein is right, but for whatever fucking reason /lit/ doesn't actually know Russell's good philosophy (philosophy of mathematics, philosophy of language, metaphysics, epistemology) because they're too pseud to follow that side of Wittgenstein's quote, and instead they just ignore him completely and obsess over his popular polemical works, which are on ethics and political philosophy and history. They're not the worst, but they're far from stellar. He's done much better but they're just prejudiced against him. Not even Wittgenstein would support that.

>>18221736
>Damn OP you got filtered hard. Russell is right.
>The thing is Wittgenstein is right
Oh so you're contradicting yourself, I will not take you seriously

>>18220888
checked and keked
>not knowing how to properly greentext

>>18221751
>being this level of cringe
Classic /lit/

>>18220891
>want to learn the rudiments of the history of western philosophy
>get an editorial op-ed
education is such a fucking meme

>>18221736
that's not the point imo, i simply don't need him to discern what trains of thought are dangerous and which ones aren't. i don't need a genealogy of the belief of dictators, i showed up for the history of philosophical thought, not this dudes personal conclusions. i don't want my shit prescribed to me. give me the raw tools/info and leave me alone ffs if i want a prepackaged conclusion ill read another secondary source

>>18220930
Based
>>18220797
Russell is retarded. Completely overrated.

>>18220867
He just seems to be ascribing a sense of pleasure to every action or thought that a person can have and that they deem to be good. How would he otherwise know that Hitler derived "mental pleasure" from anything he did? Is an ascetic Christian monk really just a hedonist because he derives mental pleasure from serving God?

>>18220858
>was
so he's dead. good.

>>18221894
I agree with you about that. I don't think Russell is making an error with the Plato example (I think it's a point worth taking seriously) but I would prefer not having to deal with his usual commentary when reading a history of philosophy. There's supposed better histories worth reading. I would recommend just reading the originals though.

>>18221522
No, she was as wrong as they are.

>>18221736
you literally sound like a reddit postmodernist pseud defending Russell so adamantly KEK

>>18221994
>reddit postmodernist pseud defending Russell
>lacking this much self-awareness
NGMI

>>18220930
based, /lit/ards seething

>>18222015
Seethe leftist. You know where you belong

>>18222049
It's just postmodernism and Bertrand Russell are opposites. But not if all your eyes see is LEFTIST BAD of course. /pol/ goggles ruin everything take them off and learn to see nuance. Not everyone left of you likes each other.

>>18221440
This was recommended to me, still waiting for it to arrive from Amazon though, takes three weeks for my country

>>18221736
>russell
>metaphysics
what are you even talking about

>>18221736
>reason is a mental pleasure keep it out
no wonder you are defending russell

>>18221736
Based.

>>18221440
You can just get a collection of excerpts from philosophical texts like pic rel

>>18222241
What are you even saying, he's talking about things like envy and contrasting those with things like taste bud pleasure.
>>18222231
You prove my point, people on /lit/ just don't know Russell's metaphysics.

>NOOO YOU CAN’T JUST ENJOY READING THE GREATEST PROSE STYLIST IN ALL OF THE PHILOSOPHICAL WORLD! YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME INTERPRETATION OF THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC AS ME OR ELSE YOU’RE DUMB

>>18221339
>we need to genocide the leftists, the blacks, the Jews, the Arabs, the Chinese, the Latinos, the Slavs, the Meds, basically everyone who isn't German or Japanese
>waaaaaaaaaaaah why are leftists so mean to us :(
>>>/pol/

>>18223257
>>>18221339 #
>>we need to genocide the leftists, the blacks, the Jews, the Arabs, the Chinese, the Latinos, the Slavs, the Meds, basically everyone who isn't German or Japanese
>>waaaaaaaaaaaah why are leftists so mean to us :(
>>>>/pol/
>>>/reddit/

>>18221666
gotta agree Satan. I guess its the product of an interesting time and an interesting person. the athiest-religious devide of the time didnt seem as bitter. But then again, there wasnt that much of a religious controversy in england at the time so the us-them thing might be less present. While the more pressing topics were that of authority and democracy, individualization and collectivization, etc.

>>18223302
4chan is basically reddit at this point: posting "based" is an upvote, posting "cringe" is a downvote.
There is barely any difference at this point between both except that 4chan is more edgy and the "söyboys" here LARP as internet tough guys instead of posting lame puns.

>>18223302
4chan is basically reddit at this point: posting "based" is an upvote, posting "cringe" is a downvote.
There is barely any difference between both websites except that 4chan is more edgy and the "söyboys" here LARP as internet tough guys instead of posting lame puns.

>>18223445
>4chan is basically reddit at this point: posting "based" is an upvote, posting "cringe" is a downvote.
If anything, YOUR post is reddit. When a meme becomes so oversaturated that it is repeated verbatim unironically and without any of the initial absurdity or blitheness, its old hate and manifestly reddit as an adjective.

>>18221914
Interesting point. We can admit that some pleasurable mental states are harmful while maintaining that some are good. For example, Buddhists distinguish between unwholesome (delusion, greed, hatred) and wholesome (wisdom, generosity, loving-kindness) mental states.

>>18223469
>When a meme becomes so oversaturated that it is repeated verbatim unironically and without any of the initial absurdity or blitheness, its old hate and manifestly reddit as an adjective.
What are you even talking about? Isn't posting "based" and "cringe" like it's eternally 2016 precisely "a meme [becoming] so oversaturated" that it becomes manifestly reddit?
Your word salad is almost devoid of meaning, and I wonder if you might not be a GPT-3 bot in the end. Cope in any case.

>>18221751
idiot

>>18221498
Yeah Russell has some mental problems but what specifically is this guy butthurt about(what Russell lied about) and why does he write like a failed poet?