/lit/ - Literature

>>18207491
I agree with his cope thesis but I think that he was being too dogmatic for saying that there is literally nothing post-death. There might be something or nothing after death. But chimping about one of these options as a Truth is pesud bullshit.

fucks sake
>muh life
>muh existence
>muh death
>muh existential crisis
why do a lot of fucking people I meet get stuck with these questions for life but never explore other problems
holy fuck cow shit man

Did you really need the entire book for that? You could take one look at the title, think on it, and arrive at that conclusion. What does the author say that can't be inferred from the title? Genuinely asking

>>18207507
Every "option" is driven by the fear of death/insignificance/pre-death pain/post-death unknown. So why should we delude ourselves with useless bullshit of other options? What is wrong with making death your obsession?

>>18207510
Because if you don't read it it has no impact. Even if you are inclined to agree.

>>18207491
>Reeeee Death is real!! Real!!!
Ok man, so what is death?
>Some bullshit trying to explain depression and schizophrenia
Laughing my guts out

>>18207518
This is not convincing. You just want to believe it and give up and not bother with the effort of more. Reducing everything to something because you feel like it doesn't mean it has to be that way or that it negates all else even if it were the case. That is an error.

>>18207683
No one is reducing, go read the book. He presented his thesis very descriptively. And I haven't read any convincing articles or books as a rebuttal.

>>18207594
That didn't answer my question.

>>18207510
i read it and unironically you are right. in fact 3/4 is not about the question itself but giberish outdated semi-nonsense psychoanalytic praising and psychology as therapeutic profession. only 1/4 is about the harsh reality of death. cioran is much much better.

I don't remember much of it from my mopey adolescence, but I do remember that based Norm likes it, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

Sure, a desire for stability and significance is a great motivator in any project intellectual or otherwise, but from what I remember this book is incredibly reductive. The thesis deserves the same answer that Wilde's famous statement about sex gets: yes and no, ever not quite. A weak form of it is undeniable, (our sex lives and our awareness of mortality suffuse everything that we do) but to reduce the immense variety of forms of life to an exercise in denial is ludicrous.

>>18207503 is quite right. From what I remember, a lot is just taken as a given with this book. In addition to simply accepting a kind of world devoid of inherent meaning without struggle, it is, like its source material, insufficiently historicist. It's important to remind oneself that Kierkegaard's and Freud's projects would make little sense divorced from their historical and cultural contexts, which we modern westerners still share to a degree. To make matters worse, doesn't it take the Kierkegaardian/Freudian route with the problem and make professed absence of anxiety about death equally solid evidence for anxiety about death as professed anxiety about death? Resorting to that mode of explanation as anything other than a heuristic in individual cases that give specific reasons for it is worse than futile.

>>18207507
This. Existentialism is a sometimes food.

>>18207857
the book is shit and i see it more like a psychoanalytic framed and timid book about death more than anything really deep or serious.
but anyway, i dont think its about life as a cope or denial of death, but more about how we deny death and how unnecesary it is. we have to find a solution to incorporate death to our lifes.

>>18207710
Yes you need the entire book because without thoroughly immersing yourself in all the little copes and thought processes people go through you can't really see it for what it is. Thats why you read the book.

>>18207880
It has been a while since I read it, but I vaguely (perhaps incorrectly) recall parts with a kind of "unmasking" character (e.g. the part about Freud's relationship with his mother and death with psychoanalysis as a source of power as an "immortality project" for Freud or something of that nature). Reminds me of Cioran calling Nietzsche naive for being enthusiastic about anything other than pessimism, though more simply snide as it's deprived of Cioran's ironic humour. As I said though, you may be right, and I may have simply misremembered and given undue emphasis to a small point.

"Shit" is probably too harsh given that it's meant to a popular work, but yes, it is kind of redundant. With regards to the "incorporating death into our lives" part, >>18207503 's point was brought in. Before we internalize mortality, we have to actually conceptualize and understand it, and there are of course countless different ways to do that. If you take it as a total annihilation, as this book seems to, we have a tradition stretching back to the ancient Greeks on dealing with that (e.g. the old "when I am here, death is not and when death is here, I am not.").

>>18207491
Me on the bottom

>>18207503

>>18208095
I literally remember nuffin before my birth. So all of these "what if" bullshit is meaningless.

>>18208095
Why is the life infinite? shouldn't it be lots of finite life segments?

Even if reincarnation was true it's not any better than being dead forever. It's not like your new form is going to be you anymore.

>>18207510
There are some interesting sections on Freud and Kierkegaard.

>>18208028
in general the book is more about psychoanalisis than about death. so its true what you said. all that about unmasking is true.
the "incorporating death into our lives" is more my point than the point of the book, who is too busy talking about freud and other "psychoanalitic genuises". becker is just not too brilliant, he dont say too much about the denial of death than the evident.

>"when I am here, death is not
long time ago i see an interview of young bob dylan (yes i know...) and he say something along the lines "yes, i dont know, death is just death, is like seeing your nails grow, is just like that, i dont care, i dont know why people talk much about it". maybe it seems like something stupid, but i think he understand death better than all that greek people. death is here, is always here. anyway, this kind of thing is not in the denial of death book.

>>18208212
>anyway, this kind of thing is not in the denial of death book.
Yes there is, you have to keep in mind that bob achieved immense fame in his youth. One of the point that Becker made was that people are more afraid of dying insignificantly this is why they try to milk whatever attention from societal structure which promise to give significance to their lives. And people have kids, make art etc. in the quest for immortality along with other things. So yes it is easy for bob to make that statement when millions of people are ready to suck his cock at any time of the day.

>>18208115
I for one would not enjoy being reborn utterly depressed and shizoid.

>>18208095
Reincarnation is effectively the same thing as obliteration so who gives a fuck? Once my ego is gone, I'm gone

>>18208266
It doesn't matter. Even if I am the reincarnation of my previous self, I forgot about the experiences I had in the my previous life.

>>18208272
Based

I wasn't expecting half the book to be speculative fanfiction about Freud's life and the workings of his mind.

>>18208131
Not him, but the extent to which we remain ourselves during our lives is debatable. You can definitely notice continuities between yourself at one time and at another, but there are also continuities and similarities between separate individuals. Keeping this in mind with regards to the possibility of a reincarnation wherein one can recall past lives in at least some sense (Gautama Buddha was said to be able to recall his past lives and these accounts exist as the Jataka tales), there's arguably some appeal there.

>>18208248
in a way you are right about bob, but in other way people really dont come to the simplicity that death is in all places all times and that your nails growing is the same as your body decaying.
like i said, i was too dissapointed by this>>18208282 to really adress that point the book had. all that about the hero and feeling significant. he is right that this feeling about dying for nothing is vital. but if we really accept death we understand even being a hero is insignificant.

>>18208338
Death is not implicit but it is always on the back of your mind. I don't know about anyone but I have tested his thesis by applying it on myself and largely on society. And he was right. But it is fucking hard, really hard to piss on established structures, accept your own mortal limits and the motor of your own actions and still go own your own way. Don't know why but Becker reminds of Nietzsche's Superman. I really do think that Becker's project was a Nietzschean project while at the same time it was also a pessimistic project. He left us with two option, to either give up or own up that baggage and move ahead.

>>18207491
Your own death literally does not exist and can not possibly exist because you can never have empirical experience or knowledge of it.

>>18208397
>Death is not implicit but it is always on the back of your mind.
just because we dont think too much about it. death is totally pervasive if you take a look. remember the dylan phrase.
i dont see becker as a philosopher, i see it as a pscyhologist of the 70´s not too brilliant who make a best seller with a hot topic. i dont see a project in him at all.
some anon say it in this thread and he is right, if you really think about "the denial of death" sincerely, becker dont have nothing new to say. i mean, if becker leave an impression in you is only because you sincerely dont think about death before and the impliccations of it. something too normal like he explain in the book. but really we dont have responses to death. we live in mistery.

>>18208459
>we live in mistery.
This is one implication of his thesis. This mystery is the sources of all theories, philosophies, doctrines etc. As Ligotti puts it, no one knows the big news.

>>18207491
I haven't read this book so I'm gonna assume by its name that it's about how most people make themselves not realise that they will be gone one day on purpose, and I totally agree. Even now in this moment I feel like I will never die, but after becoming a christian I have developed the muscle to think about my death on command so I can just visualise myself go into the other side forever, and potentially go to hell, and I can do anything if I do that. I don't get why atheists fear death, you geniuely don't think you have potential eternal flames and suffering awaiting you after you die, I wonder if this book also talks about suicide victims being so illusioned that they actually suicide because of their fear of death, thanks for the suggestion anyway OP, I'm sure it will be a great and knowledgeable read.

>>18208429
Ascended take.
I am actually immortal.

>>18207507
After learning to let go and accept the unfairness and shittiness of life I totally understand how you can't sympathise with people caring about shit, but you have to understand they are very caught up in their problems and very unenlightened about not worrying about shit they can't control, it's a long road to complete carelessness

>>18208429
Cool, please report back in 70 years. Death is real and there is only one second beetween being alive and then being on the other side forever

>>18208479
yes, but at the same time this topic (we live in mistery) is pretty poetic and practically the number one theme in all written word of humans. is something every lover of literature know. is sad that people need some midwit psychologist to understand it. but well, the message worth it anyway. i am a little hipster here.

>>18208513
I agree with you. But Becker was an excellent thinker. And things always look "obvious" after some philosopher points it.

>>18207507
It is the one serious important philosophical question. All else is secondary.

>>18207503
Atheists really are hysterical pussies.

>>18208719
Christcucks are deluded hysterical pussies.

>>18208542
oh shut the fuck up repeating camus like a bitch
there are other interesting and important problems
philosophers and smart people forget thinking about this shit when they turn 15

>>18208719
no everyone should have kids

>>18208730
>smart people forget thinking about death and life instead they think of some political form as the real important problems. so smart.

>>18208272
>>18208279

Coward take, your "ego" literally has no value unless you assign it one and virtue has no meaning unless you believe it has a purpose. Its perfectly rational for your "God" to be the continuation of the human race or the betterment of society, but that would also infer that you belive in some sort of continuation of your existence after your death.

>>18208988
>your "ego" literally has no value
Ok nihilist
Fuck off

>>18208139
With the caveat of not being as interesting as Kierkegaard and Freud

>>18208991
Not an argument.

>>18208988
Who gives a shite if my ego has no value? Why should I make an effort to erase it? I am not gay enough for that. If existence has imposed it on me then so be it.

Where's the poster that always claims Becker became a Christian on his deathbed with zero evidence to back it up?

>>18208095
Let me get this straight, you're saying
>death: nothing, and all nothing is the same
>life: forms out of nothing, therefore it comes from the same source, therefore you came from nothing and thus you will experience more life again that comes from the same nothing that you came from and that you went to after you died
? That's retarded. You are you, not someone else, you say I might have lived billions of lives until now, so what if I don't remember them or only live one life at a time? Don't make no difference to me, therefore this theory is bullshit.

>>18209025
A healthy amount of giving into and recognizing your ego is fine, but don't let it consume you in your quest for recognition from others. Ego, if visualized as a tangible substance, is anathema to progress, practice, and change: it convinces the ego-possessor of his or her own superiority over others, which most times is an unfounded assertion. Humble yourself and learn to lose. Embrace failure first.

>>18208942
I didn't say that you added that for rhetorical essence, as you and your argument can't stand on it's own. This also shows the narrow vision of your wit and philosophical understanding. Leave philosophy, stick to russian doomer music.

>>18207491
I used to be deep into trad-Catholicsm. I doubt this book would be profound to me.

>>18209081
I do agree with you for the most part. But I don't want to cuck myself by thinking that I am lesser than the others. This is fucking stupid. If my ego is insignificant then all of their egos are insignificant too. I am not talking in psychopathic terms, of course there are people are miles better than me at sports, speeches,management etc. I am talking about metaphysically.

>>18209131
What changed your mind? Are you an atheist now?

>>18209030
Oh na. Death is just not a thing.
You cannot die.

Take the absurdist pill and stop worrying.

>>18209228
Ascend

>>18209183
Well I went to deep and turned into a creationist but eventually I caved in and started believing in evolution which destroyed my faith because my faith basically rested on the earth being young. I practically turned into an atheist. Now I feel myself slowly returning but I don't resist any doubtful thoughts and I can feel like God exists at one moment and another moment feel like he doesn't exist. I'm hoping to read modern Catholic writings like Ratzinger who have tried to reconcile these issues instead of the writings of trads who are largely YEC.

>>18207491
I don’t understand why losers like this book that much (or maybe I do). If you are worried about death all the time, you aren’t alive at all. Go sit at home and watch youtube because outside is dangerous you scared atheist incels

>>18209476
Why does your interpretation of God have to follow anyone elses? Institutions of faith are fine for society but the foundation of philosophy is questioning those ideals. This is the foundation of western civilization.

>>18209026
not a christian but he did believe that the solution to the problem of death anxiety was believing in a kierkegaardian notion of God or higher power so I guess he sort of was. He says so quite specifically in the book many times.

>>18209476
Does gravity exist?
Does strong force exist?
If yes then God too, exists.
It's a fundamental force, not a thing.

>>18210566
What?

>>18207510
He says the healthiest cope is to align yourself with the universal, whether you call it God or what have you. His thesis being that some cope is necessary, thinking you're beyond cope is just a recipe for needless depression and hidden copes (Freud is his poster child for this), and that making the universe-as-a-whole your cope and what you lean on is the best for your outlook and health and productivity, and that it doesn't lead to any moral or logical dead ends like the usual copes of culture or nation lead to.