/lit/ - Literature

they sad

>>18194020
Camus says life is absurd and meaningless, it is up to us to give it purpose and meaning, although we don't have to. For the man who declines this, suicide becomes a logical consideration, the ultimate philosophical question.

Meaning does not exist outside of the human consciousness context. So without meaning you should kill yourself right? If you want, but you are not proving anything by doing it cause nothing has meaning anyway in reality.
Once the veil has been lifted living for no reason or killing yourself for no reason are equally valid.
I live cause the void is coming anyway and I might as well get weird with it while i'm here, and play with the fundamental rules of existence giving to us.
Outside of the context of consciousness/humanity, the world is incredibly simple. Humans like to make things complicated.

>>18194086
Wow, Camus is so fucking epic and brings really something new to the table. It's not like I could easily come to the exact same conclusions myself or someone did before him and actually wrote it down. But he's a French existentialist and that changes everything. He's a genius. Just like Sartre.

>>18194102
You should have no problem getting your own nobel prize then

>>18194110
Epic reply, my dear sir. Here's your gold.

none. philosophical thought reacquires reflective mind while suicidal impetus comes from the subconsciousness.

To get away from OP boring personality

>>18194020
Here's the reason I came up with when I wanted to off myself, if there is no such thing as a divine entity and no life after this then reality exists only in my conscious, you could say that other people also exist and shit like that but they're relative to me because for me if I'm not here then no one is. Now to stay alive because it is meaningful is a bad argument because only the things that effect you matter and thus have meaning, since you do not exist after you die then nothing means anything. Now the only reason left to live would be pleasure (the friends and family would be sad thing is stupid because they'll die soon enough). So keeping all of the above in mind if your life as it exists right now is pleasurable then by all means continue, if it isn't might as well just kill yourself, unless there's a possibility of pleasure in the future.

>>18194020
simply put: non-existence is preferable to existence.

>>18194637
Not sure if I agree with living for pleasure, and die if you're suffering. Live to experience if anything, or die if you don't want to experience.

>>18194692
You cant say its preferable if you have no idea what non existence is like. On what scale do you measure nothing being better than something?

>>18195073
non existence is non existence, there is no experience to be had. it's literally the easiest thing in the world to imagine.

>>18194692
How could you ever know with out killing yourself?
Its not like anybody knows how non-existence is other then the opposite of existence.
So I can't see how someone could compare the two and make a judgment on that alone

>>18194020
What's funny is that man, who was conceived by accident and whose every breath is a fresh cast with dice already loaded against him, who knows that he assuredly has to face that final main, will not face that final main without essaying expedients all the way from violence to petty chicanery that would not fool a child, until one day in very disgust he risks everything on the single blind turn of a card. No man does that under the first fury of remorse or bereavement or despair, he only does it when he realizes that even the remorse or bereavement or despair is not particularly important to the dark diceman.

>>18194637
How do you know that your consciousness is tied to the vehicle of consciousness that consciousness provides you?

>>18195221
>how could you ever conceive of zero when everything that exists has a numerical quantity?
Non-existence isn't the experience of the absence of experience as if non-being was some kind of sensory deprivation tank. Non-existence is the absence of the experiencer.

>>18194020
Well if you don’t believe in the immortality of the soul and you don’t believe in God then you can’t have any ethics and so there’s nothing to stop you from committing suicide but it also doesn’t matter whether you die now or later because either way you will be dead and have no memory of your life regardless of how long it is

>>18195539
You can have ethics without God, the point is you can decide to have ethics, it doesn't matter regardless

>>18194102
You could say that about literally anyone you midwit.

>>18196111
Take your meds and keep telling yourself that.

Hurts a bit too much for a bit too long

>>18194020
They want to die.

>>18194020
they're tired and have nothing to cling on
if I didn't believe in God, I'd have done it a long time ago

>>18194020
Because they want to die? How hard is that to understand.

>>18194102
Have sex. Play football. Bask in the Algerian sun. Simple as.

>>18194020
>“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”

― David Foster Wallace

>>18197640
Imagine being behind nietzsche in philosophy in the current year of our lord +11

>>18198767
>t. guy who had to tie his hands together because he freed himself the first time he tried to commit suicide by hanging
That's just sad man. At least Mishima wasn't responsible for the botched part of his suicide.

>>18198834
Imagine living in an era after the discovery of entropy and the establishment of the universe's timeline main theories and still believing the universe simply sparked and expanded from nothing

>>18198767
>‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square
just what I said >>18194576
hhm, this Wallace guy seems pretty basado

>>18198869
over an infinite timeline the probability of everything happening approaches 1

>>18199334
you are either retarded or ignorant, if not both

>>18194020
Historically? Pain, depression, impending doom.

Most modern suicides stem from the internet fucking the human soul into oblivion. I can't wait until we're done with this thing.

>>18195539
>can’t have any ethics
I don't stab people because I can reason that it would hurt them, just like it would hurt me.
I could base an entire system of ethics around empathy alone.

>>18199630
>I can't wait until we're done with this thing.
our bodies or the internet?

>>18199659
The internet as it stands today; Thoughts, wills, jokes, memes in surplus, whatnot. All of those to whom it does not draw from time better spent still remain culturally impoverished. I've seen both worlds. We can do technology, but not like this. This is a hiccup.

>>18194637
>>18198767
Some societies don't even believe in an individual self. You are just as much a part of everything as the words you formed are to one another. Suicide is so selfish, and a projection of the modern individual. It reminds me of that one webm where a guy falls to his death killing a baby alongside with him

>>18199630
>I can't wait until we're done with this thing.
Yeah well, keep waiting because it's not gonna happen.

>>18200722
those societies are retarded
better to die a free man than to live as a slave to society

>>18194692
this.

>>18200722
there's nothing inherently selfish about suicide. Existence is forced upon everyone so if one doesn't get to choose whether they are born or not, how can you say its selfish because it hurts people close to you emotionally when you die? You will die eventually anyways and the same thing will happen.

>>18198725
shoot a native. simple as

>>18200722
>Suicide is so selfish

That's not inherently good or bad. If someone is, say, suffering an incurable disease and they want to end their life, but someone begs them that to end their life would hurt their feelings, is this not also selfish?

Both are selfish in this example. The person suffering wants to end their life and the person lamenting this notion wants their emotions to be put above another's.

>>18194020
being poor

A lot of psuedos and midwits like to argue that suicide is preferable to life but if you've actually talked to anyone who has survived a suicide attempt, they almost overwhelmingly say it was a terrible idea and that they never want to try it again. This is because the brain naturally doesn't want to die, because of course it doesn't.
In reality, pain is the motivator for suicide. Deep pain. Pain physically, but also mentally and emotionally. People just want the pain to stop, and if it won't stop then the only way out is suicide. But that doesn't make the pain go away, it just makes everything go away.

>>18194047
This

>>18194020
because they study philosophy

>>18203790
You mean the lizard brain. The primordial part of the brain that goes into overdrive when you're about to commit suicide. Of course it's not pleasant because their biological survival mechanism is fighting against them. That doesn't mean 'they' don't want to die, it means that the brain made suicide so unpleasant that they're too scared to ever try again.

>>18194020
>>18194047
he cute doe

>>18194020
This is what Borges said in an interview:

>In the ”Zohar” (”The Book of Splendor”), which Gershom Scholem considers the most important literary work of the kabbala, there are many speculations about life after death. Swedenborg describes in detail hells and paradises. Dante’s poem is also about hell, purgatory, paradise. Where does this tendency of man come from, to try to imagine and describe something that he cannot possibly know?

>In spite of oneself, one thinks. I am almost sure to be blotted out by death, but sometimes I think it is not impossible that I may continue to live in some other manner after my physical death. I feel every suicide has that doubt: Is what I am going to do worthwhile? Will I be blotted out, or will I continue to live on another world? Or as Hamlet wonders, what dreams will come when we leave this body? It could be a nightmare. And then we would be in hell. Christians believe that one continues after death to be who he has been and that he is punished or rewarded forever, according to what he has done in this brief time that was given to him. I would prefer to continue living after death if I have to, but to forget the life I lived.

I also wrestle with suicidal thoughts. Yes there are some psychological factors that does pain me but largely I think about it due my own spiritual collapse and not finding answers for bigger question. All that I am left with is mainly contradiction. I really want to see what the fuck this whole fuss is about, this is might an optimistic naivety but I want to check if there is something or not. Like what the fuck this business of existence is about, this endless stream of theories, religions, people, things and philosophies etc. to the point of utter vanity. All of this makes me want to puke, laugh, cry and end it all.

>>18194020

>>18194020
its not about philosophy its about path of (supposed) least resistance.
for some people (possibly in an altered mindset therefore altering judgement) they think that killing themself is the easier option than the alternative (living in their current environment).
the trick is a bad enough environment, possibly altered judgement, and ease of suicide that can overcome the commitment that is necessary of suicide.
a common abstract is energy equations, if you think that will help you understand.

>>18199654
yeah but since i want to kill you, ill murder you in front of your family and you wouldnt be able to say a thing to me. your reasoning is not the same as mine

>>18194020
killing your maman

>>18194086
>it is up to us to give it purpose and meaning
This doesn't work. Why? because it is temporary and arbitrary, yet we crave that which is permanent and true.

>>18195190
But it's literally impossible to imagine it. You can't imagine nothing because you are always something.

>>18205571
Well the key mistake here is imagining. Simply don’t, and you’ll have imagined it.

>>18194020
When there to much cringe and not enough cope then someone either kills them self or finds bliss by coming to terms with the cringe. This is called rock bottom, and at that point you make it or don't.

>>18194020
Atheism

>>18194086
>it is up to us to give it purpose and meaning
Yes, but only to a point.
Biology predisposes us to some things feeling more meaningful than others.
People often go to extremes.

Also, why do we accept that life is meaningless?
Just because we don't understand its meaning?
Just because we believe the universe would be just as fine without us?
How do we know that?

>>18194101
>Meaning does not exist outside of the human consciousness context
Are we sure about that?

>>18204716
There are more reasons why people contemplate suicide.
Sometimes they imagine people still caring about them being sad.
They want to draw attention to what hurts them.
But, of course, that's silly to a certain point because they would no longer be present for it.