/lit/ - Literature

>>18181740
I too would like to know. More broadly I'd like to know about theistic anarchists in general

Steven T. Byington
Jesus Christ

>>18181740
Ivan Illich

>>18181740
These kind of anti-government guys have waaaaay too much faith in humanity to the point where it's absurd and can't be described as anything but naivite. Government is absolutely necessary.

>>18181866
>christcuck has blind delusional faith
ohno..

>>18181740
>Christians who are pro-Christ

>>18181875
What does that have to do with anything?

>>18181740
Jacques Ellul has a good book on Anarchy and Christianity. I don't know if it fits your description exactly, but it may be something like what you're looking for.

>>18181740
>anti-church
How can you claim to be pro-Christ yet anti-church when Jesus unequivocally founded one?

>>18181866
>Government is absolutely necessary.
atrocious take.

>>18181917
Even with a government we have wild niggers raping, robbing and killing people. Imagine what would happen without government.

Just render unto Caesar, brah

>>18181917
>t. melanin haver

someone tl;dr on how proponents of anarchism imagine their ideal world?

>>18181740
What would be the definition of "morality" for Tolstoy?

>>18181917

He's actually right. In stateless tribal societies, people killed each other in far greater proportion. This is why anarchists are evil.

>>18181917
The human naivety the other poster was mentioning.

Yikes.

>>18181934
>>18181977
>>18181982
t. Bootlicking serfs

>>18182138
cope

>>18182151
This whole meme is one big cope lol.

>>18182164
keep saying it

>>18182166
Keep licking it

>>18182175
just like you

>>18182182
Im not communist and I hate trannies and authoritarians. When I believe in the individual’s autonomy, who’s boot am I licking

>>18182195
My boots and everyone else's.

>>18182232
I’ll smack your arse and take the internet from you lad, watch your mouth

>>18182378
Splendid speech, now lick my boots clean, boy.

>>18182387
Give me your address and I’ll come and batter you ya wee fanny. I bet you don’t even own boots you weakling. I will fuck your ass bitch

>>18182403
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, WA. I'll wait for you, silly bastard.

>>18182387
>>18182403
Where is the love anons?
Guys would Tolstoy be proud of you right now ? Grow up and be kind to one an other.

>>18182411
Watch for what you wish for, cuck.

>>18181740
It is always well sheltered and pampered counts Tolstoys and princes Bakunins, never working a single day in a life nor suffering ever a meeting with a gang of thugs that utter such ludicrous idiocy.
One subhuman with a knife and a boredom jockering their face would suffice, a three minute agony for three lifetimes worth of hatred of all champagne socialists and gold plated anarchists.

>>18182462
>Be Tolstoy
>Be in the Caucus Army in his youth
>Founder of and taught at a school for child peasants
>Denounced his count status
>Thought hard toil was good for the soul, so much so it became part of his everyday routine
>Told serfs on his family estate they could have their freedom
At least Tolstoy practiced what he preached

>>18181740
christianity is inherently monarchist, if we're reducing the schema of religion and reality to politics (which is gay), at best things like distributism and the arts and crafts movement are based but too ideological
if you're anti-chuch you might as well be anti-clerical, and that point you might as well be an anti-theist
you're actively renouncing the icon of Christ on earth, and rejecting the apostles and sacraments Christ gave you, at which point you might as well be against God
tolstoy was excommunicated for a reason, christianity just isn't compatible with something as godless as ideological anarchism, despite the worldly faults of the church
I'm not a distributist, but the best christian economic statement you'll read is probably from chesterton or belloc
just read judges, the OT is pretty clear that God works through civil authority

Anyone who thinks anarchy is doable for the long-haul really lacks a fundamental understanding of people. Eventually humans will group together in large enough numbers and form societies and start to bully those who are weaker. That's just the way people are.

>>18182403
>ya wee fanny
Scottish people are always so ready to jump the gun because they have 0 intellectual capabilities for arguments. Its always funny to see

>>18181977
Whats wrong with that? You want a world where noone is killing each other? Don't tell me youre that naive

>>18181740
Nestor Makhno was inspired by Tolstoy.

>>18182528
t. Wee fanny

>>18182528
this, scotts were created by God to be slaves for the english

>>18181917
name some successful anarchist societies for us

>>18182138
t. internet anarchist who lives with his mom and watches antifa riots on youtube before eating hotpockets and falling asleep at 4 am

>>18182631
Define successful

>>18182644
Seems like I touched a nerve and made you project a bit there buddy

>>18182646
just go ahead and name some anarchist societies that lasted more than 20 years, that should be easier

>>18182653
The large majority of human history

>>18181740
Lol

>>18181740
Jacques Ellul OP
He was the inspiration to Ted
He shilled marxist Christianity a lot
I read ''The Technological Society'' because a neo-luddite larper recommended it ,I don't actually care whether or not tech ''destroys'' humanity,I see it more as ''overcoming''
I'm not Christian if you couldn't tell
>>18181866
>>18181875
>necesary
No
But workers or the lower classes aren't admirable,they are just the losers of their societies,there is no real reason to care about the freedom of others,people who identify with workers just can't see themselves as masters and are probably just weak.

>>18182660
lmao do anarchists really think this? you can't have anarchy with tribe leaders, i'm sure there were tribes without tribe leaders that quickly descended into chaos to give you some credit.

In addition to this
>>18182670

>>18182660
I love when anarchists do this btw,I don't admire apes and hunter-gatherers,sorry

>>18182652
i suggest you lick your mother's boot a little more often before she kicks you out and you actually have to become something

>>18181740
Someone explain to me how you can be an Orthodox Christian and be against both the church and the state.

>>18182695
Holy seethe and triggered

>>18182707
get a job, take a shower, clean your room, etc

>>18182713
Keep seething. I’m so much better than you o wow lol

>>18182695
>Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:37:28 No.18182695▶>>18182707
>>>18182652
>i suggest you lick your mother's boot a little more often before she kicks you out and you actually have to become something
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:38:16 No.18182703▶
>>>18181740 (OP)
>Someone explain to me how you can be an Orthodox Christian and be against both the church and the state.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:38:33 No.18182707▶>>18182713
>>>18182695
>Holy seethe and triggered
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:39:07 No.18182713▶>>18182715
>>>18182707
>get a job, take a shower, clean your room, etc
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:39:43 No.18182715▶
>>>18182713
>Keep seething. I’m so much better than you o wow lol

>>18182723
>Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:32:23 No.18182662▶
>>>18181740 (OP)
>Lol
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:33:58 No.18182670▶>>18182692
>File: 1619896484163.png (298 KB, 344x4993)
>>>18181740 (OP)
>Jacques Ellul OP
>He was the inspiration to Ted
>He shilled marxist Christianity a lot
>I read ''The Technological Society'' because a neo-luddite larper recommended it ,I don't actually care whether or not tech ''destroys'' humanity,I see it more as ''overcoming''
>I'm not Christian if you couldn't tell
>>>18181866
>>>18181875
>>necesary
>No
>But workers or the lower classes aren't admirable,they are just the losers of their societies,there is no real reason to care about the freedom of others,people who identify with workers just can't see themselves as masters and are probably just weak.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:35:58 No.18182684▶
>>>18182660
>lmao do anarchists really think this? you can't have anarchy with tribe leaders, i'm sure there were tribes without tribe leaders that quickly descended into chaos to give you some credit.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:36:48 No.18182692▶
>In addition to this
>>>18182670
>>>18182660
>I love when anarchists do this btw,I don't admire apes and hunter-gatherers,sorry
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:37:28 No.18182695▶>>18182707 >>18182723
>>>18182652
>i suggest you lick your mother's boot a little more often before she kicks you out and you actually have to become something
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:38:16 No.18182703▶
>>>18181740 (OP)
>Someone explain to me how you can be an Orthodox Christian and be against both the church and the state.
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:38:33 No.18182707▶>>18182713 >>18182723
>>>18182695
>Holy seethe and triggered
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:39:07 No.18182713▶>>18182715 >>18182723
>>>18182707
>get a job, take a shower, clean your room, etc
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:39:43 No.18182715▶>>18182723
>>>18182713
>Keep seething. I’m so much better than you o wow lol
>>>
> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:40:27 No.18182723▶
>File: 1619953710283.png (469 KB, 1279x1698)
>>>18182695
>>Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:37:28 No.18182695▶>>18182707
>>>>18182652
>>i suggest you lick your mother's boot a little more often before she kicks you out and you actually have to become something
>>>>
>> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:38:16 No.18182703▶
>>>>18181740 (OP) (OP)
>>Someone explain to me how you can be an Orthodox Christian and be against both the church and the state.
>>>>
>> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:38:33 No.18182707▶>>18182713
>>>>18182695
>>Holy seethe and triggered
>>>>
>> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:39:07 No.18182713▶>>18182715
>>>>18182707
>>get a job, take a shower, clean your room, etc
>>>>
>> Anonymous 05/05/21(Wed)22:39:43 No.18182715▶
>>>>18182713
>>Keep seething. I’m so much better than you o wow lol

Tolkien?

>>18182670
retard

>>18182538
>what's wrong with murder
do anarcunts, really...?

>>18182937
Dude wtf is that? Do you know how to use the meme arrow?

>>18181846
Can Jesus really be considered a anarchist when said "Rener unto Caesar what's Caesar." and he rules over a kingdom?

>>18184009
>Tolkien?
is this a joke

>>18184173
He was very pro minimal government

>>18181740
me :)

>>18181909
A church is simply a community. A large, powerful religious government like the Catholics have isn't a true church, in my opinion.

>>18184204
Based.

>>18184190
you’re dumb

>>18184213
>My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning the abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs)—or to ‘unconstitutional’ Monarchy. I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inanimate real of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate! If we could go back to personal names, it would do a lot of good. Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so to refer to people . . . .

>>18181866
Study history you retard. They are not necessary and they consistently cause mass suffering of those under their territory for self-preservation.

>>18182462
You don't have a clue about Tolstoy

>>18181740
Protestants? lol
You need the Church, its literally in the bible.

>>18181866
But humans run governments....

>>18184200
Based anon

>>18185415
Christ is the tabernacle. Now, I don't believe any of that retarded shit, but at least I read it.

>>18181977
Those societies still have social contracts and behavioral agreements and imbalances of power, goods, resources, and labor.

Government is unavoidable, children.

>>18182411
Dude if that is your actual address you need to go buy a gun now. Humans are crazy you fucking idiot.

>>18181740
Ellul

>>18184421
Take your own advice. See: >>18181934
>>18181977

>no stateless christian distributist community
ugh

THE DIVINE PLENITUDE IS HIERARCHICAL; IT IS THE FIRST HIERARCHY THAT THERE EVER HAS BEEN: THE HOLY RULERSHIP; TO BE AN ANARCHIST LOGICALLY ENTAILS THE REJECTION OF THE DIVINE PLENITUDE, THEREFORE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A «CHRISTIAN ANARCHIST».

>>18181875
Faith in God =/ Faith in man without order

>>18181866
>Tolstoy
>Faith in humanity
Read more newfriend

>>18185963
kys cuck

>>18184204
What about Orthodox church

>>18182670
Based

>>18184030
Weird how you couldn't come up with an argument... You do realise everyone is murdering at least indirectly nowadays. We've been murdering each other since the dawn of man, and we will continue to do so till we go extinct. Weak are weeded out, thats how evolution works buddy (except nowadays if youre lucky enough to be born in a first world country you can be weak all your life and have nothing bad happen to you, therefore contributing to lowering the quality of the gene pool, yaaay!)

>>18182411
This website has 20 million unique visitors monthly and every post is archived on multiple websites that are searchable and show on google.

>>18185963
gtfo Arian

>>18187898
Google the address, retard

>>18182513
So how does anti clerical= anti thiest? Some breakthrough christian philosophy was the product of criticizing the clergy.

>anti-government thread derailed with twitter-tier shit flinging
haha.. xd..... who'da thunk it

>>18188306
"seethe" "cope" "retard" usage directly proportional to how much you're not supposed to talk about the topic

>>18182462
Tolstoy worked harder than most of people today. Imagine ploughing the field with no access to modern machinery

all yall niggas read plato before coming back here

>>18188350
das rite

humans will always end up forming hierarchies, but it is always exploitable, infiltratable, against the interest of the population and ultimately unviable.
democracy doesn't work because of sophism, anarchy doesn't work because hierarchies are always established.

ultimately, humans are bound to chaos and there's nothing you can do about it. there is no "solution" to this.

>>18188405
it's all a cycle. a good hierarchy is formed, pow, golden age. time goes by, the people who inherited power aren't as cool as the original. what now? pow, coupe. chaos. rinse and repeat for eternity.

>>18188414
until the system gets played perfectly and the process of becoming a governor becomes too beurocratically closed off and perma-power ensues. then nuclear waste, the end.

>>18188405
>>18188414
>>18188438
not sure if based & blackpilled or schizo

>>18181740
Dorothy Day

>>18188438
step 1. git power
step 2. create a list of theatrical presidents, all of which belong to your instutution
step 3. "democracy" i.e. illusion of choice
step 4. ???
step 5. profit

it's not easy, but it's simple.

Constantine Dmitrich Levin

>>18182411
>>18182403
>>18182387
>>18182378
>>18182232
>>18182195
>>18182182
>>18182175
>>18182166
>>18182164
>>18182151
the state of /lit/

Generally speaking, the Bible tells people to respect earthly authority:

There is of course Jesus' response on the question of paying taxes in Matthew 22:20-21 - And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Paul also writes in Romans 13:1-7 - Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

However, there are also some things in the Bible that are anti-government, at least in tone or in certain conditions:

Psalm (of David) 2:2-5 - The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure

Paul writes in Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places

Satan is referred to as the temporary ruler over the world at this time, and the events of Revelation where the anti-Christ will rise and the beast will be worshipped will be the culmination of that theme. Christ's crucifixion and the execution and imprisonment of disciples of Christ in the Bible also show the potential evils of government, while not explicitly saying to resist them. The parts of the Bible that do have anti-government sentiments seem to more point to God's eventual triumph over the evil of them and over Satan. God uses even the wickedness of the earth's kingdoms for his eventual glory and the glory of those victimized by them for Christ's sake. Christians are supposed to be long suffering and obedient and receive their reward and justice in the next life. But not obedient to the point of worshipping the beast of Revelation. To Caesar, Caesar's. To God, God's

>>18188251
priests are icons of Christ
criticizing the clergy and the church as earthly institutions is different than condemning and wanting to do away with the structure of apostolic succession
even luther saw the necessity of the priesthood, and calvin advocated for a priest structure to give confession and other sacraments, it's when you get to figures like zwingli that you can see the antichrist's foundation being laid
to go against the priesthood/clergy is to go against the divine mysteries (confession, communion, marriage, and all gifts of God), not only that but you're renouncing the bishops (who have the lineage of the apostles) and the clerical figures who are the very icon of Christ on earth
to reject a priests liturgical and cosmogonic significance is to reject communion with God
in this sense being anti-clergy is akin to being an apostate

>>18181740
William Blake?

>>18182513
>christianity is inherently monarchist
nice take bootlicker

>>18189624
>muh boot lick
grow up

>>18186729
The system with the fewer murders is objectively the best one, you psychopath.

>>18184173
>>18184213
He referred to himself as an anarchist, very anti-government. Wasn't against the church as far as I know, though.