/lit/ - Literature

>>18094710
Bible? More like bile. I’d rather crawl across steaming hot coals then read that shitload of fuck. If it’s the word of God why the fuck is it so boring and repetitive? Like dude I got it the first time you don’t need to repeat yourself for again and again and again and again and again and again.

>>18094710
Why is every part so different? What were those church councils thinking? Oh yeah let's just combine every genre imaginable in one book, that won't be confusing for people trying to figure out what God wants.

>>18094758
>claims he gets it first time
>still doesn't get it
>>18094803
God is vast, complex, and mysterious.

>>18094803
>that won't be confusing for people
We do have priests and spiritual fathers to instruct and inform, if you do not like to read and research (curious, considering this is /lit)

>>18094803
Imagine how much more mysterious, and complex God truly is. Compared to that, the Bible is pretty straight forward. The more you give into your carnal nature, the more incomprehensible the Bible becomes. When you read it with an open mind, open heart, and a sincerely willing spirit that wants to know the goodness of God, more will start to make sense. However there are some things about God we will never fully comprehend as mere humans

>>18095079
This is accurate to my findings as well. God asked Job could he handle all the incredible myriads of details required for running all existence, and that's exactly what so many critics seem to think, that they know better than God how to operate all existence.

So bros, what is your favorite book of the Bible? Obviously it's all very important, and it's hard for me to pick a favorite, but the book of Acts might be it. It's very interesting to me to see the domino chain of events that happens when Jesus ascends to heaven and the disciples are left to their own devices. However they have the Holy Spirit working through them so they aren't really alone. Same as things are for present day believers really, which is why I think it's also a very valuable book of lessons for Christians. God might not have to intervene in such heavy ways as he does in the book of Acts where he's making sure the infant Christian Church grows to maturity, but sometimes he does. Also, Paul is my favorite person in the Bible (outside of Jesus Christ)

>>18094803
if you are a brainlet all you need is 10 commandments and the Our Father, you can go to church or whatever and listen to what they say once a week if you want more.

>>18095129
I just finished Acts yesterday and definitely hold it near the very top. In some ways I consider Luke/Acts to be the "best" together, since they are both of a single author and work together so well. But Gospel of John holds a slight edge for me as I think it does the most to help me really get a feel for being in the presence of Christ. I think it and Revelation work together in almost the same manner as Luke/Acts.
>>18095138
I would probably add John 3:16 and Psalm 23 to the bare essentials tool kit.

>>18094710
you must be stupid degenerate shill tasked with regular bible threads. pure retardation.

Figured I'd just throw this out there. If you've never read the Bible for and are genuinely curious about the faith and maybe even want to believe, here's a loose guide of where to start:

I would start with the book of John.

Being very new to the Bible, follow that up with another gospel, book of Luke. Luke is probably the most comprehensive gospel in terms of overall content relating to Jesus' life and ministry, while John is a deep dive on the divinity of Jesus Christ and his relationship to God the Father, and our relationship to both of them, but leaves out a lot of the events in Jesus life. Both gospels are very important in different ways

From Luke, go to the book of Acts which was also written by Luke. Acts details the beginnings of the Christian Church after Jesus' resurrection and ascension. The life and ministry of Paul is the main story in Acts. Acts teaches believers how to be strong in the faith, and to have peace in the Lord in the face of persecution

Next, start reading a couple of Paul's letters in the New Testament (which were written during the events of Acts). Book of Romans, Ephesians, and Galatians are my top recommendations of these

(Here, maybe read another gospel for deeper understanding and a refresher on the Gospel. I would read Matthew, but Mark is fine as well)

After this I would go back to the Old testament to get some basis in understanding this, also to understand the "Law of Moses" so commonly referred to in the Old Testament. I would read book of Genesis and book of Exodus for sure. You can continue with Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Joshua if you want. Or read the last gospel you haven't read yet, or some of Paul's other letters, or other parts of the Old or New Testament at your choosing

I would recommend reading book of Revelation only after reading a fair amount of other stuff in the Bible. It makes more sense the deeper your understanding of the Bible is. Of course it can't hurt to read earlier than that

If you have no interest in becoming a Christian but want to read Bible kino, then I would recommend books of Exodus, Joshua, Samuel, Kings, gospels, Acts, and Revelation

>>18095422
Seething

>>18095422
I am "tasked" only by he to whom I am bondservant, the Most High Father God, Christ Jesus, Holy Spirit. Bless you, son.

>>18094710
Currently reading through Kings 1, I'm at Elijah and Ahab.

>>18095528
Not a bad outlay, much appreciated.

>>18095556
I'm almost envious, that being among my favorite parts. I just finished a read through Acts and Tobit yesterday and am presently in Judith and Luke. I wish I could read more at a time.

>>18095129
Ecclesiastes

Jeremiah 29:11 - For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope

>>18095631
That's a seriously hard hitter, excellent.
>>18096206
Blessed share, much appreciated.

>>18094710
Currently reading Ezekiel.
Started in Genesis with a bunch of commentaries 3 years ago and have been slowly making my way through the whole thing with a comprehensive textual critical and historical critical perspective.
I have yet to run into anything that suggests that the god of the bible is worth worshiping, and I have yet to find any reason to believe in any god.
The bible is a horrific book. Yahweh does terrible things. If he did exist, the most good thing we could possibly do is kill him.

>>18096245
>pleb take

>>18096264
>Hardens pharaoh's heart, prolonging slavery and suffering
>Murders firstborn egyptians (among other plagues) to get back at pharaoh for making decisions based on his heart which was hardened by god
>Creating evil as explicitly stated in Isaiah
>Murdering most humans, animals, and plants with a flood in Genesis
>Genocide after genocide in the land of Canaan, Genesis through the Deuteronomistic history
>Aiding the Babylonians in the destruction of Jerusalem in Jeremiah
>Sending a bear to maul a bunch of kids for Elisha
>Giving strong preference to incestuous relationships (read Jubilees)
>The entire book of Job
>Cursing people to eat their own children in Deuteronomy
>Praising bashing children's skulls on rocks in Psalms
>Raping Mary
God is a piece of shit in the bible.

>>18096318
I repeat >>18096264

>>18096318
What the fuck, is this really there? Never read the bible and never will but this really isn't a good look for the "god"

The tribes in the land of Canaan had countless generations to repent of their evil deeds, instead of sacrificing babies to false gods. Same as the Egyptians, they brought judgement on themselves by practicing black magic and enslaving God's chosen people. Same for the judgement the nation of Israel and whoever else disobeys. He is very patient, long suffering, slow to anger, and forgiving. That doesn't mean there are no consequences for sin. God's judgements are righteous in their infinite wisdom. Your judgements, are not

>>18096354
Yes, all of that is legitimately in the bible. It's horrific. Any moral person would have nothing but disdain for yahweh.
I don't blame christians for believing their god is just; they all skip the OT entirely and start in John, as if the entire history of yahweh's character is absolutely meaningless. They're just woefully uninformed.

>>18096389
are you a jewish atheist

>>18096405
I don't believe in jewish metaphysics or ethics and don't practice any jewish cultural customs, and have no genetic relationship to jews. I also don't understand the term "jewish atheist", they're just atheists.

Why would Christians be mad at delivering God's unrepentant enemies into the hands of God's obedient children and delivering His children out of the hands of their captors? Sounds like God is a wonderful father who had mercy on His children's suffering, and delivered justice

>>18096441
Christians are grateful, but the warped worldly mind can't see it as it is, much less its grand beauty.

>>18095534
excellent! you faggots deceive people everywhere.

>>18097985
Literally still seething!

>>18096389
>entire history of yahweh's character
Bitch God isnt a fuckign character in a marvel movie stfu

>>18094820
do you actually believe that? what a cope out, how don't you feel embarrassed and like an absolute idiot. theres something out there sure, but as if it fucking interacts with us. You're just too afraid to admit that we're unimportant so you seek out some divine bullshit comforts

>>18098031
*cop out

>>18097997
literally you are stupid faggot shill

>>18098031
>we're unimportant
By what measure? Is there any living creature in our reality as important as us? Has any other living creature been given the gifts of life we have? Has any other creature been made in God's image?

>>18097985
rent at no cost

It literally isn't far-fetched to believe that whatever created us would interact with us. Holding a deeply rooted belief based on nothing that God/creator/whatever term doesn't trigger you would never interact with his creations in some form, some aspect, some dimension, is dare I say, idiotic

>>18098031
>I haven't experienced something
>no one else has

>>18098042
Mostly just bemused desu. But I'll let you run along now

>>18094758

>>18098064
Agreed. It might not take a form that one expects, think it "should", or is even easy to overtly spot and quantify, but that doesn't mean that the interaction isn't there, and isn't incredible beyond expression.

>>18094758
Coals do not get "steaming hot", only things with moisture in them do. Coals would get more "glowing" or "red" hot.

We don’t need a general for the Bible we can discuss it anywhere.

>>18099276
I agree that the Bible should be discussed everywhere. It should be the only thing discussed anywhere. Faggot.

What are you guys' thoughts on highlighting i side the Bible (or any book)? I sometimes see verses/quotes that stand out/I'd like to take note of, but I don't want to "deface" the book.
>>18094710
Currently towards the end of Acts. Started with NT desu; next OT, then Apocrypha.
>>18095129
John so far

>>18099498
I make margin notes, usually regarding alternate wordings from the Dead Sea Scrolls or Septuagint. For particular passages I wish to "highlight" I usually just make a small mark out to the side instead.

>>18099498
As long as it's your own personal Bible that you aren't really sharing and don't plan on selling, I see nothing wrong with it. Some people deify the actual physical Bible too much. It's not the paper it's printed on that's so important, it's the eternal Word of God that is and that can never be erased. God knows your heart and knows that you're doing it because you want to understand His word. Especially if the text is still perfectly legible, it's fine

>>18099520
Ah, alright. I don't really have margins; I considered maybe sticky notes or something, but perhaps that isn't a good idea.
>>18099542
True—maybe I'll start doing that. Before I got this physical Bible, I would "star" a lot of verses in a digital version.

>>18099586
Those margins are plenty for me, about the same as mine.

Anyone know of a good inexpensive Greek Septuagint? I wouldn't mind having a Greek-English version but the only one I saw on Amazon is like 90 dollars.

I got bored to death by Leviticus some months ago and gave up, been starting from Genesis again, almost finished it.

I find Jungian theories as applied to the Bible and literature to be very refreshing. It's a new take that focuses on the development tales, maps really, and how to follow them.

Pic related focuses on the spiritual/psychological growth of Rebecca, Jacob, Joseph, and Moses.

He, by Robert A. Johnson is a phenomenal work in the same vein about the Holy Grail legend.

The Beginning of Wisdom by Leon Mass is another hidden gem. An analysis on Genesis by philosophy professor Leon Kass from a somewhat secular lens, but explaining tons of deep Jewish scholarship on the Genesis in more accessible terms.

>>18101168

>>18096389
>>18096318
They aren't all misinformed. Many take Yaldaboath's misdeeds head on.

>>18101174

>>18096245
There is a problem with pairing modern ethics to the Bible. You have to recognize that:

1. Not all Christians (or Jews) believe the Bible is a divinely inspired work, with each word being absolute truth. Many take these books to be products of their time. They were written down by men of violent enviornments, and even potentially edited to excuse their sins or justify themselves. That said, we also believe they contain spiritual knowledge and wisdom despite this corruption, and reflect some people's real contact with God.

The Bible's potential corruptibility is implicitly acknowledged by most Protestants. They claim that the Canon they have, picked by human votes, is divinely inspired, but also that somehow the Holy Spirit allowed many false books to remain in the Bible for 1,100 years.

The expulsion of books from the Bible during the Reformation was clearly motivated by politics and human theology. James contradicted Luther so he tried to have an Epistle potentially written by Jesus' own brother expunged from the Bible. Maccabees had versus that gave some support to the idea of Purgatory, but indulgences were a political problem, so it had to go. Early Christians didn't have a Bible. God is not limited by words transcribed by man.

2. Obviously Gnostics side stepped all this by claiming the God of the Bible was an imperfect lower form of the true ineffable God of the Absolute (The Entirety, or Monad).

Side note: since the Monad was infinite and inconceivable, man could only know him through his emanations (this isn't polytheism, but more like the Trinity's different persons). Schloem demonstrates this Gnostic view (influenced by Platonism, which in turn was influenced by Hindu thought via the Orphic Cult and Egyptian Memphite Theology, which invented the Theory of Forms), helped create Kabbalah.

3. Claims that Christians only read the New Testament are off base. I've been to many churches across many denominations and heard countless sermons on the OT, or been at discussion groups on the OT. It is true that some churches rarely dip into these books, or avoid troubling passages. I've found this most common in American Evangelical churches, particularly Baptist ones. There the focus of sermons is a pep talk each week to reinforce:
>Saved by faith alone
>Once saved always saved
>The logical conclusion of these two is that conversion is priority number one and nothing else matters.

However, plenty of other churches work deeply with the OT, even morally tough books like Judges. Not all pastors say the Bible is infallible, which makes sense.

Finally, consider that God does have a dark side. "Wisdom is fear of the LORD." The numinous experience is filled with terror. Jung's interpretation of Christianity in his autobiography stresses this. There is a fierce side to God we should not be surprised from, and it is grace, after confronting this terror, that represents the great mystery of the Christian religion.

>>18094710
Leviticus and Job.
Goal is 30 chapters today.

>>18101280
Now the problem of sin is a stumbling block for many. The idea that God is good is often taken to mean God posseses no darkness. Indeed, Saint John contrasts the Light with the Darkness in the Gospel and his epistles.

However, we also take from John that God is the logos, word. As Sausser points out, a one word language, where a single term can equally be applied to all things, is not a language. It cannot convey meaning. In the same way, we cannot speak of a world of only Light, because Light only has meaning in relationship to Darkness.

Thus, I believe we can find darkness within God. We hear of God experiencing anger in the Bible. He "hates" in Amos. God encompasses all things. God is like a wavelength of infinite frequency. As the frequency increases, the peaks and troughs of the wave grow even closer, until the end result would be cancelation. For a sound wave, this would be silence, but a pregnant silence, filled with infinite potentiality.

Jung has a relevant experience in his autobiography. During his childhood, Jung was possesed of an overwhelming compulsion to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. He also had been taught that this was the one thing that caused eternal damnation. He resisted the compulsion, afraid to finish his thought. However, upon reflection, he realized this desire did not come from him, as it was something he absolutely did not want to do, but must come from somewhere else, from God. He finished his thought of blasphemy, and then immediately felt relief and the grace of God. It was this grace, from Darkness, that was the true essence of Christianity for him. God made Adam and Eve to sin, but their sin was required for grace.

This is the theological felix culpa- the Fall was required for the Crucifixion.

A God of only light is meaningless, like the one word language. God's creation of meaning required sin. God is perfect, and so It's partial emanations are inheritally imperfect. We see this in the Gnostics' conception of the Pleroma. God's emanations must exist in pairs, much like Heraclitus' tension of opposites. We can only grasp aspects of God in our mind, only part of the balanced whole. Since the parts are imperfect, not the perfectly balanced whole, we will by definition see fault in God.

God exists outside time. Perfect knowledge of the future would be no different from experiencing the future. All existence occurs at once. Sin is a problem for us because we only see a sliver of the picture, not knowing that there is no distance between the Fall and the Heavenly Kingdom. Indeed, a close reading of Paul and Christ in the Gospels show that we are already in the Kingdom today, as we live on Earth, through God's grace. Hell, the speration from God, can also be upon us even as we live.

Or, to sum up, the "problem of sin" is not a problem of contradiction, but a problem of our frame of reference. We are like Parmenides, thinking Achilles can never overtake the hare, because our reference is wrong.

>>18101280
>>18101297
>all these words
I think the true value to be had from the Gnostics was nothing more than them opening up the potential, in and of itself, for alternative views towards the Scriptures. I myself consider them to be an incredibly complex and effective "Rorschach test" machine. To supplant one dogma with yet another is not only "bad", but worse because the "new dogma" is dung by comparison. The "test/machine" only works properly if you go into it assuming it to be "real" at face value, and solidified, while simultaneously allowing for your own liquid impressions alongside.

>>18096389
Yep, too bad they're done to jews

>>18101168
>>18101174
>>18101181
Excellent, much appreciated.
>>18101293
That's quite a chunk, I will feel pretty good to get through 10 today.

>>18095079
Is this why Richard Dawkins cannot even properly understand art, like Shakespeare? I know soldiers with a smaller range of artistic taste and knowledge of aesthetics (no offense to them) than even the average person, but compared to Dawkins, an Oxford educated elite, they sound like literary critics in every regard.

>>18095079
This is an example of why I sometimes tell people that 4chan is the best place I know of to discuss God. I copied and pasted this into a text document I keep of considerations that help me find and keep proper orientation. Bless you, Anon.

I never knew the bible was so kino. God's turning people into salt and shit it's great

I find it very ironic that people who browse 4chan are calling themselves christians.

>>18103384
And yet here we are, on a safe for work board, discussing the Bible and literature. How shocking...

>>18103394
Correct, that`s why I will call you a faggot. Christfags need to leave along with election tourists.

>>18103430
I'm not a Christfag and I still find the Bible to be an interesting book to read. I recently picked up the 1611 King James version. It's an important part of Western literary canon whether you believe in the religious aspect of it or not. The people who really need to leave 4chan are the reddit-tier atheists.

>>18103384
You know that pic rel applies to about 90% of them, but that being said, I appreciate this idea of bible general a choose not to bother them here. Hoping, naively, that they stop shitting up the rest of the catalog.

>>18103430
The thing is though, that we don't have to go anywhere, despite what you think

>>18103430
>I am the ideal poster here and arbiter of who should and should not come here to discuss things
>I cannot simply visit threads I am interested in and refrain from visiting threads I have no interest in
>I suspect that the recipe on my favorite tendies has been changed but the box doesn't say anything about it

>>18103459
>I'm not a Christfag
>an interesting book to read.
>King James version
>Western literary canon
You're like a parody of midwits.

>>18103489
You're like the embodiment of seething

>>18103461
I dont think picrel are here, if you're going to use it as a meme identity you'll go somewhere that you can actually craft said identity. I also just don't really see that sort of rhetoric in Christianity threads on this board. Like half the posters aren't evne christian, just discussing the ideas

>>18103384
Many people cal themselves Christians. The Irony here is that this place probably has individuals who act more like Christ than the people at your local church

>>18096318
You don’t think people questioned this for millennia? There is a reason behind the Lords actions.

>>18103577
Different types of hypocrisy. Your local church is full of people engaging in premariral sex. adultery, bullying, embezzlement or whatever, while the "christians" or 4chan may be celibate and not involved in anything dirty (because they're social rejects without opportunities) but are hateful, sociopathic and selfish assholes anyway.

>>18103618
>hateful, sociopathic and selfish assholes anyway.
you just assuming this because they're here?

>>18103628
A safe assumption.

>>18103638
You view yourself that way?

>>18103648
You don't?

How do you know what’s an allegory and what isn’t? I try to explain to my grandpa that Adam and Eve just makes more sense if they represented allegorical symbols and that the story would convey multiple messages. He just gets angry. And no, I never said anything about it referring to woman’s true nature(we can never get to that point anyway)

>>18103648
4chan attracts very specific types of personalities, and none of them are virtuous, you can be sure of that.

>>18103673
Not really, and I'm not Christian, and I think I am significantly more of a dick than the average Christian poster I see here. I rarely encounter anyone on 4chan that seems actually sociopathic to me

>>18103673
Not them but I don't view myself as those things, but definitely flawed, broken, and in need of help from God.

>>18103694
This seems like projection. There are many reasons a person might be "attracted" to a place.

Now that we've determined there is no virtue on 4chan, we can all agree atheist anon doesn't actually care about God's supposed evil nature and its consequences as he was pretending to

>>18103694
I think it attracts people with low self-esteem and avoidant personalities. Other than that I don't think it's that much different than other sites in terms of userbase

>>18103717
>Now that we've determined there is no virtue on 4chan
"we" have determined no such thing. I find virtue here rather frequently.

>>18103731
>implying we're not mostly chads

>>18103712
Hardly, I recognize the behaviour I see in the threads here, christian-themed ones included.

Why did ancient Indians like siddhartha know about spiritual strengthening techniques like fasting and meditation despite not knowing what Christianity is?

>>18103737
Right, I was following his non-logic to show the absurd paradoxical condemnation of Christians on 4chan

>>18103737
Other than (involuntary) celibacy and sobriety, which virtues do you see on display here? I'm not mocking you or patronizing, honestly curious.

>>18103756
Non christians can do amazing things with the body and the mind. I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to do the same with their spirit. Bud ha has many teachings similar to Jesus. Could be that anyone can figure these things out if they work hard enough or have talent I guess

>>18103774
I have read and gained many excellent insights into the holy scriptures here (not just this board) over the years, for just one thing.
My celibacy is entirely voluntary, btw.

>>18103774
Open-mindedness is probably the most obvious one. By no means universal here but there are not a lot of places on the internet where eg. every single day a dozen communists and fascists debate each other at length.

>>18103774
I saw an anon talk about how he lashed himself for masturbation. I can respect self control. Of course anyone can come on here and lie, but it’s an example.

>>18103731
Echoing this >>18103749 , I'm arrogant, prideful and enjoy fucking with people. Seems like you're the one projecting.

>>18103794
This is true, and I will add that even if the ones heatedly debating each other do not "change their minds", I as a reader of the debate might find and respect new perspectives or insights.

>>18103802
>I'm arrogant, prideful and enjoy fucking with people.
Why not do this somewhere you can have an audience who will gather around and praise you and you can actually genuinely fuck with people's real identities, eg. twitter? Anonymous posting is not really a great option for either pride or malice.

>>18103790
>My celibacy is entirely voluntary, btw.

>>18103731
When I first came here I found people who were like me. I thought I was the only one who did ridiculously cringy things until I read stories on /b/ and /r9k/. At the time I was 14, and ultimately I just ended up sticking around. It’s a good place to discuss topics you’re interested in and has a lot of useful things to learn if you sift through all the nonsense. I would’ve never known to start with the Greeks if it wasn’t for /lit/

>>18103816
Fact. Late 2019 I was whoring it up until I had deep realizations and ceased.

>>18103756
Because God and His Spirit have always existed and always will exist, and anyone can feel their way to Him

Acts 17:22-31 - 22 Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, “You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. 23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. 24 The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands, 25 neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things. 26 He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth, having determined appointed seasons, and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’ 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi

>>18103813
Honesty. You can be a raging sociopath in the real world and reap rewards rather than the opposite (many catholics I know are guilty of this far more than I am) but honesty/genuity are something you simply can't afford without anonymity.

The modern Christian's love of the negro shows the disgusting hypocrisy rampant in their dying faith. As if the negro can be tamed, as if it can be considered equal to the European, as if the ancient jewish fairy tales will somehow change the nature of the negro, and all the while Christians ignore the violence and rape inflicted on them by the black beast. The jews are wise enough to make a distinction between the people their god creates during the 6 days, and the race of Adam who are truly human. Christians are blind to the meaning of their own fables.

>>18095079
Based and Biblepilled

>>18103862
I don’t think they should hate the negro but I don’t think they should love them either. I think they should simply understand the negro objectively. They on average are violent and low iq etc etc. So they shouldn’t be allowed into your country. However does this mean they should be wiped off the face of the planet? Hitler gave a negro a medal and congratulated him but that doesn’t mean he didn’t see them as inferior or wanted them to live in his country. Also niggers were much better off under segregation and were able to act somewhat normal due to societal demand and fear. And likely can be tamed with gene editing. Sonwho knows maybe they can one day make it to Indian tier.

>>18103949
Of course I am not saying it’s anybody’s responsibility to tame the nigger.

>>18103968
Hey, you're not me. Go impersonate someone else.

>>18095129
>what is your favorite book of the Bible

Job

Read it as a teenager, didn't understand anything back then. Re-read it as an adult, every word touched my soul. Some anons will understand.

I love black people as much as any others. I pray for them. White people in suits have done me more personal harm than any street thug. I can avoid street thugs but avoiding harm from the whites in suits is more difficult. We are all under the influence of sin and that influence manifests in varieties of ways from varieties of peoples. May God have mercy on us all.

>>18104139
Amen brother

For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

>>18104139
>>18104168
what a gay LARP

>>18095079
>it will start to make sense
Yeah because you just make up your own meaning, ask anyone else who reads it with an open heart and they will have an entirely different interpretation

>>18104176
>everything I don't agree with is LARPing

Yeah bro, all of the hundreds of millions of Christians are just LARPing to mess with you

>>18104192
>whites in suits
No one is this retarded.

>>18104177
I never said anyone reading it has perfect understanding of the Bible or agrees on everything. Many are much closer to understanding and believing than seething at the book and railing against it online all day though

>>18104202
You're right. Rich, powerful people are benevolent and have your best interest as their top priority

>>18104221
Hate the evil rich people if you want. That's fine. But it's your racial relativism that's disturbing. Christians of earlier times would hate your lack of loyalty to your own people, your lack of pride in your ethnicity, and your pandering to the savages.

>>18104247
Yeah that's just why there's in incredible heritage of Orthodox in Ethiopia.

>>18104259
Would you like to live in Ethiopia? They can mimic your culture, but it doesn't change the way your jewish demon made them, which is uninteligent and violent.

>>18104271
It's ok I love retards too so you will be in my prayers.

>>18104283
So you admit blacks are unintelligent and violent, you admit you wouldn't want to live in ethiopia, and you admit your god made them this way

>>18104293
>get a load of my terrible extrapolation skills

>>18104321
You keep dodging the question, like a good christian. Would you like to live in ethiopia? Why or why not?

>>18104293
>>18104293
Yes, so? I don’t want them near me but I don’t hate them.

>>18104351
Fair enough.

Question:
In Genesis, God creates humans during the 7 days of creation. Then, separately, he banishes Adam and Eve to Earth. Does this mean there were humans on Earth before Adam and Eve?

Favorite books:

>OT
Psalms. It's the most quoted book by Jesus.

>NT
Gospel of John. It contains so many great details that the other synoptic gospels don't have.

>>18104373
There are some theories that humans already existed and that adam and eve were the first ones to receive a soul.

>>18104373
Define “Human”, but yes there other life forms capable of breeding with Adam’s children

>>18095528
Good stuff, I'm stealing this

What translation should I get? I want the one Issac Newton had.

>>18104384
Does that mean there are people who didn't descend from Adam and Eve? And who don't have souls?

>>18104393
Do they have souls like Adam and Eve? Or are they considered animals?

>>18104410
I think it does mean that there might be people without a soul. Could be that the soulless people are gone too.

>>18104410
Yes and no, when they began to interbreed(despite being told not to) it seems that they began to have a soul or at the very least became able to attain a soul. Also it’s still debatable on exactly how a soul functions and whether it’s a simple you either have it or you don’t. It’s possible for an outsider completely unrelated by blood to obtain one.

>>18104405
Nothing after 1900, I would recommend the Matthew Henry KJV
>>18104373
Look up "Gap Theory", interesting stuff.

>>18104449
But Adam and Eve were the direct progenitors of the Jews. The world is only 6,000 years old, so most ethnic groups couldn't possibly have interbred with the Jews; and because the race of Adam (Jews) are the only ones with souls, it follows that most people in the world don't have souls.

>>18104450
That seems purposely vague.

>>18104410
They could have a soul like Adam and Eve I guess. But it depends on how the soul was affected by eating the fruit of the tree. And how it’s affected by marrying non-humans. Not all were considered as animals. There are gods children(humans), then there are beasts of the field(you can figure that one out), then there are other intelligent life forms that weren’t like animals but they weren’t from Adam and Eve. They must’ve had something because they practiced forms of spirituality and were hungry for it but they didn’t have the same souls that were given to gods children.

And then it gets even more complex when all the intersex begins to happen.

>>18104478
"gap theory"
Aren't all these unlikely theories probably wrong? Isn't it a little more rational to assume the bible is factually incorrect?

>>18104496
>other intelligent life forms that weren’t like animals
What is that supposed to mean?

>they didn’t have the same souls that were given to gods children.
So, basically, you admit that Jews are God's children, they have real souls, and you are just a strange lifeform with a stunted soul or possibly no soul at all?

.....
The European goyim truly are a race of cucks, both sexually and spiritually. By their own system of belief, they themselves don't have souls. What a bizarre mental space that must be. I don't envy you, and I'm glad your race is dying.

>>18104492
>But Adam and Eve were the direct progenitors of the Jews. The world is only 6,000 years old, so most ethnic groups couldn't possibly have interbred with the Jews; and because the race of Adam (Jews) are the only ones with souls, it follows that most people in the world don't have souls.

The story is allegorical, a group of organisms lived somewhere, then they gained the power of free will. They then proceeded to leave their eden and mate with the outsiders and their existence affected all other cultures and life around them. For better or for worse. Negative O blood is not from the planet so we know that something came here a long time ago. However I am not trying to say it’s all aliens and science and shit. Just that there is more to the story than what desert dwellers would’ve been able to comprehend and write down.

>>18104529
>What is that supposed to mean?

The Bible says giants existed. A giant I assume would be an intelligent life form that wasn’t a human. So on and so forth. These other things were intelligent but they lacked a divine spark.


>So, basically, you admit that Jews are God's children, they have real souls, and you are just a strange lifeform with a stunted soul or possibly no soul at all?

It’s entirely possible the tribes that refer to themselves as Jews aren’t actually the original Jews. You’re making a lot of assumptions here and not thinking with an open mind.

>The European goyim truly are a race of cucks, both sexually and spiritually. By their own system of belief, they themselves don't have souls. What a bizarre mental space that must be. I don't envy you, and I'm glad your race is dying.

Oh I see, you’re thinking to emotionally. Try again when you settle down.

>>18104550
>It’s entirely possible the tribes that refer to themselves as Jews aren’t actually the original Jews.
At what point did this transfer take place? Is there a gap in the chronology of the bible where this is likely to have occurred?

>>18104522
I am of Jewish descent, so I am not soulless!!!

>>18104529
>Negative O blood is not from the planet
What do you mean?

>>18104529
Knowledge of Good and Evil is not freewill. Adam and Eve had the freewill to reason to eat to fruit.
>negative o blood is not from this planet
Is it made of asteroids? I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE

stop posting

>>18104588
Fuck off, kike.

>>18104600
Your religion doesn't make sense, and requires all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify the specifics when held to the least bit of scrutiny.

>>18104614
I don't think there will ever be a religious text that will make sense to everyone, because there will always be different interpretations. If you are willing to acknowledge the existence of a God that reveals himself to us, what would you deem acceptable or "realistic"? Would it only be valid if everyone agrees to it? I am genuine.

>>18104593
Nobody knows where RH negative blood originated from. And blood is a very important theme of the Bible, the second most used word in the book behind the word God.

>>18104614
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Genesis and as such anything you have to say is nonsense.
No wonder you have such a hard time tryijg to figure it out. Your scrutiny isn't scrutiny it's UNEDUCATED OPINIONS.

>>18104600
Look man, there’s reddit science and actual science. I don’t know where it came from exactly but it ultimately came from god, wherever he resided when he was making his children.

>>18104641
It would be valid if it was at least consistent.

>>18104655
>Nobody knows where RH negative blood originated from.
That doesn't mean it's not from this planet.


>>18104666 (okay satan)
Specifically, where am I wrong? It's pretty clear that the Jews descended from Adam, and everyone else is just mud people from the 7 days of creation, no different than beasts.

>>18104586
The whole history is massive as I’m sure you know but from 721 to 510BC most of their Promised Land has been cleared of the true Israelites of the kingdoms of Israel and Juda. In actuality, most of the people emigrated or were taken captive, but not all. The enemy kings were most interested in removing the men who might fight as warriors. The Assyrians had been more ruthless in their eviction of the northern tribes, many of whom went westward by ship and northward to Asia Minor, and some taken captive to the region of Armenia, but certainly many families also remained in the Palestine region. The Babylonian king took the military men captive, but left the families in place. When Jerusalem was destroyed, many of the Juda residents moved northward into Samaria and Galilee. Jesus came from a Juda family that lived in Galilee in the town of Nazareth, a family which had most probably never gone into captivity. Those that had been taken captive to Babylon in 586BC were just the military men, and it was there, in Babylon, that they married Aramean women and thereby corrupted their race(happens many times). Regarding the religion of the Hebrews which was founded in the Sinai in the 15th century BC, we must keep in mind that by 721BC when the northern kingdom was captured, and by 586BC for the southern kingdom, there were already centuries of apostasy and worship of idols. It was the mother-goddess religion of Paganism that they had adopted. So, the true Godly practice of the Hebrew religion only lasted from the time of Moses (ca. 1400) until Solomon in the 900's BC. When the Israelite tribes were taken captive to Assyria and to Babylon, they adopted more of the Chaldean Mystery religions of magic. Their native Phoenician language got mixed with the Aramaic language of their captors and resulted in the mongrel dialect now called Hebrew because it was the language of those Hebrews. The Prophets were spokesmen of God attempting to warn the people of the two kingdoms that they were angering God and that He would send His wrath upon them if they did not change. You will read in the writings of the Prophets, like Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel and Daniel and others, the details of their warnings and pleadings and their terrible struggles to turn their people back to God, but it was in vain.

>>18104673
You are specifically wrong by claiming Adam and Eve gained freewill by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.
The rest is just nonsense.

>>18104689
I didn't claim the fruit thing. Someone else did.

"the rest is just nonsense"
what a strong refutation

>>18104685
So, the Race of Adam™ was scattered throughout the middle east? That still leaves European Christians in the position of being mud people with no souls.

>>18104723
>So, the Race of Adam™ was scattered throughout the middle east? That still leaves European Christians in the position of being mud people with no souls.


Paul was sent as missionary to those diasporan tribes of the northern kingdom who had left the fold many centuries ago. Paul, and the others, knew very well where those northern tribes had gone, and they knew where to go to do that mission work, namely to Asia Minor, to Greece, to Rome where Greeks had founded a new nation, to Britain, and to Europe. The Greeks were the most obvious Israelites, tracing their roots back to Zara Juda, whose son Darada is still remembered in the Dardanelles of the northern Aegean. St. Paul would use the word "Greeks" in referring to the northern tribes of Israel, but he would later admit that the Jews (Judean Israelites) and the Greeks were the same family. Christ had said clearly enough, "I am not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

>>18104777
Interesting, never heard this take before. I don't have the expertise to refute or comment on this. I wonder if it would be accepted by most Christian theologians.

>>18103174
He told her not to look back and she did. Fucking women

OP here, simply dropping a word of deep appreciation for everyone's contributions thus far. I consider myself to be personally benefiting from the various insights/opinions/considerations towards my own understanding of the Holy Bible and all things related to it. Some of this is getting pretty seriously fascinating, in fact. Some of it I am in no manner qualified to comment upon, though am grateful for the springboards into deeper researches, or simply ponderings. At any rate, very much appreciated, and bless you all, whether you like it or not.

>>18104873
Shut up mud man, you don't have a soul.

>>18104873
Bless you too, anon, because you are not the only one feeling this way. If you didn't create this thread, a handful of lurkers or posters wouldn't be able to read the things that you find interesting.

>>18104905
I do not know, I have, also working against me in this regard, being something of a ginger. Each day I recite Psalm 23 during my walks, and I think "perhaps should I have no soul to restoreth, mighten you please kindly grant me one to begin with then".
>>18104907
One never knows who mighten run upon blessings from what, whom, nor where, even amongst the most seemingly forsaken peoples and corners.

>>18101293
>30
How did you do on that? I wound up getting 8 chapters between Luke and Judith, plus a good many more or less random sections and commentary notes (a lot was in Revelation, and some in Jeremiah and Lamentations). Sometimes I get to following the cross references and do not get very "far" in terms of straight reading, and I also tend to read very slow, deliberately, and concentrated.

>>18094710
I just started reading the new testament, haven’t read the old one. Why is Jesus so adamant that jews take priority over gentiles?

>>18106340
I do not have anything I would consider definitive answers, but Jesus is big on humbleness/humility, so I figure he likes to troll and trigger supremacists. God likes to choose what is lowly to do the most grand things, a lot of times. For whatever reason, he chose the Hebrews to be his representative people on Earth. Now, what exactly that means is probably not a simple matter, and very little to do with any of this is. But you can rest assured that the Romans and Greeks, on the whole, considered themselves to be far more "advanced" and "smart" than the Jews, whom they seemed to look down on at best, and often outright disdain. So here was Jesus having the Jews be the people he chose to come be born to and to directly interact with and teach, to deliver his message to all humankind.

>>18106410
maybe that would make more sense in colonial times, but considering that jews considered themselves the god’s chosen makes that unlikely. besides, if that were the case, it would show the gentiles as such, instead all gentiles are totally and utterly humble and faithful

>>18095129
1) The Gospel of John
2) Ecclesiastes
3) Psalms
4) Job
5) The Epistles

>>18106620
>5) The Epistles
Top 3? $10 says you do not name the best.

>>18106488
Even in the OT we have Job as an example of a righteous gentile, who even God considers to be the most upright man on the earth of that time, moreso than any Jew.
It is exactly the foolish arrogance of the Jews which we see so often in the Old Testament that gets them punished and puts them in positions where a deliverer can arise from them. They consider themselves to be God's chosen, and so end up disregarding the laws and right behavior which God has set out. Jesus wanted to reform Judaism into the religion it was meant to be, He attempted to fix it, to set them on the right path and was killed for doing so.
The Jews maybe really are chosen, but as what? Conquerors? Surely not. I think they are meant to be an example, people who received the laws of God and could never fully live up to them in word and in spirit. The Old Testament is a chronicle of their failures, it is the best evidence of the necessity of Christ that we have.
>>18106620
>John
>Ecclesiastes
supremely graced taste.

Sunday bumpage

any study bibles though while not including them will reference and give info on deuterocanonical/apocrypha books like 1 enoch, jubilees, jasher and even also talk about various pseudepigrapha?

>>18101058
Lexham English Septuagint

So I'm supposed to read the Bible twice, right? KJV and then whatever academic translation is suitable?

>>18094803
You sound like a jew

>>18094803
>trying to figure out what God wants
You say that like it's some drudgery one must do to pacify the annoying old man in the sky.

Pray that the Lord will open your eyes and open your ears so that you may perceive the infinite depth and beauty hidden in the scripture, which, once revealed, far surpasses any book or novel written by any mortal

>>18109463
I know the ESV Study Bible has an article that tells a little about them. The Orthodox Study Bible and New Oxford NRSV includes most of the deutero/apocrypha. I do not know of any that include the likes of Enoch and Pseudepigrapha.

>>18109573
no, just read kjv

>>18109502
He asks for a Greek Septuagint and you give him an English translation. Brilliant.

>>18109698
>I do not know of any that include the likes of Enoch and Pseudepigrapha.
not expecting including those but looking for notes, comments, and etc on those in a study bible
and how they relate or can relate to bible

>>18109502
>supporting the Logos Jews

>>18109792
I suspect Wikipedia will tell you as much or more than any extant study Bible notes.

>>18109573
I recommend reading the KJV but frequently using Bible Hub to check any remotely "questionable" verses in parallel (Bible Hub defaults to verse by verse view in any translations). Then when you *really* feel the need, at the bottom of each verse page there is a word by word breakdown in the original languages, and also various commentaries (mostly rather old).

That being said, it's not a bad idea to read a good modern translation as well (I like the ESV), and far more than "twice" regardless.
>>18109624
Truly blessed post, much appreciated.

I have looked up a few notes on passages I had read and I think I'm missing a whole lot by reading it without a study guide.
What's a companion I should use? I can't have more than one, I can't afford it. I'm reading the KJV mostly because I figured it was the most popular version in the past.

>>18111037
I truly find the ESV Study Bible to be overall unbeatable. And I agree, as a Christian of decades since childhood, good notes for guidance are required for any serious depth of understanding.

>>18111037
There are tons of commentaries here at Bible Hub. If you click around you can choose just one commentary you like, or the default view as linked is several in parallel. It is by far the best on a PC but once you find your way around and learn what everything is then the mobile version becomes a lot more usable than it would be going in blind.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/genesis/1-1.htm

I have been meaning to read the KJV cover to cover
I have the Everyman’s Library editions of OT and NT
Should I do it bros?
Is their some kind of companion book to the bible similar to the New Bloomsday Book for Ulysses?

>>18111492
In what way other than an intro is that any different than a standard KJV? I have never heard of it and no nothing whatsoever.

Has anyone read Robert Alter's translation of the Old Testament? I downloaded it recently and am going to start reading it soon because of how many positive reviews it has. Basically, his main opinion is that modern English translations always fail to capture the beauty of the writing of the bible and that the KJV was the best attempt but still too different to be called faithful to its poetic beauty.

>The King James Bible . . . remains an imposing achievement, yet . . . it has its drawbacks.
>But why have English translators in our age fallen so steeply from this grand precedent?
>To begin with, I would note a pronounced tendency among them to throw out the beautiful baby with the bathwater. Those companies convened by King James, their modern successors assume, got it altogether wrong.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/robert-alter-modern-bible-translations-stay-king-james-stream/

Otherwise RSV with apocrypha has been my main go-to since it's simply the first one I got, since a couple catholic bible scholars noted it as a well rounded option.

>>18112738
He made some excellent points in that article. I often check the KJV and other translations against the original languages as best I am able using Bible Hub, and the KJV does strike me as better capturing a certain oddity in the flow that is "sanitized" (or I would more say homogenized) out by the modern translations. Man does it have some serious issues in places, though.

I only recently learned of Alter and his translation from an Anon here, it certainly strikes me as interesting. The comments he made in that article heighten my curiosity that much the deeper.

>>18095129
The first chapter of haggai is the best chapter in the bible

>>18111492
Why dont you have an actual nice leather (or pseudo-leather) bible, anon?

>>18094710
>Imagine reading anything other than the Holy Bible or things that are about it.
Megacringe. This is not being christian this is just being autistic.

>>18094758
>why the fuck is it so boring and repetitive?
The bit at the end of Exodus is the Shemhamphoresch, basically the broken name of God, to be laid out in 49x49 square.

>>18113251
>I love some things more than God
Infinicringe

>>18095036
TRUST THE EXPERTS

The Book of Job is based.

>>18112738
I have a copy of just the Wisdom books translated by him, the William Blake cover art is a nice touch

>>18114965
Yes. Yes it is. I think it's my favorite OT book, except for maybe Eccs, but Job reads more smoothly and can almost be taken as a narrative story rather than wisdom lit.

>>18115488
That looks like a great book, too bad it's missing Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus/Sirach. I'd look into those if you like wisdom literature.

>>18094710
I read it from time to time when I encounter a passage that I like in my day to day. I usually read the whole book that the passage is from.
I'm not a christian but I like it cause is unironically a pleb and pseud filter.

The will of God, it is the will.

>>18115860

>>18094710
>What are your favorite parts of the Holy Bible
Crucifixion

>>18116923
Thanks for the bump:

https://biblehub.com/romans/8-28.htm

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

>>18109853
What's wrong with Logos?

>>18118337
They want $10 for the ESV which is freely available in (even aside from ESV.org) Bible Hub, YouVersion, and Bible Gateway, and other translations besides only KJV and Lexham. I've also read that the CEO has bought up lots of real estate in the commerce districts and charges high rates that squeeze businesses down to bare margins and drive general cost of living up in the area, while not paying all that great himself. Logos costs for anything beyond the free tier are insane. Bible Hub is overall better anyway, providing far more, and free.

>>18094710
I wish there is a culturally relatable version like an exact translation of its fundamental principles acted out in today's world and society

>was born catholic.
>never took it seriously.
>few of the older family members start to die
>have mental illness
>get reminded of death and how I can die at any given time.
>try to take spiritual faith seriously because I do not know anything.
>try to accept Christ.

>20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

>4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

>26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[b] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

>Once saved always saved is a meme.
>every man sins.
>I will without a doubt sin in the future.
>tfw damned.
HOW DO I COPE!

>>18118674
You hadn't previously truly fully been of the vine, you'd merely been a cultural casual that was born into it and took it for granted. Now you are beginning your journey in earnest.

>>18118442
Thanks for that information. I wasn't aware of any of those details about the CEO. I've got the ESV and some other translations since they give me a coupon every year on my birthday, but I've never spent any money on their stuff. I was thinking of getting one of the legacy starter editions, but maybe I'll pass after reading that.

>>18119205
It's just par for the course it seems. More or less everyone wants to squeeze out every possible dime they can from anyone and everyone. It's one thing when it comes to the ways of Babylon, but those who claim to be serving God should be oriented differently. Of interesting note, I had wished to donate to Bible Hub because I get so much out of it and it's such an incredible resource being freely offered. I hunted and could find no place to donate. I finally saw a thing that had an address for contacting them, but it said to please not send any donations. They say they are fine without donations and do not accept them. They are really missing out on some bank that would require no more effort than having a PayPal or something, yet they outright state "no donations please". It's nice to see at least someone out there being legitimate.

>>18094710
Behind the book, that niglet is chewing on the missing bit of the cover.

>>18113277
Based Kabbalist getting angelic dubs.

>>18104777
That's nice and all, but it still leaves Northern Europeans (and everyone else) without a soul. How do you reconcile this as a Christian who is neither Greek nor Jewish?

I just read John, Proverbs and Job the other night.

John left me the impression that Jesus was kinda nuts, but I found it was an enjoyable reas overall. I really enjoyed Proverbs because of the no-nonsense approach of living a virtuous life.

Job was weird, he is definetively a relatable character but I didnt find god's answers to his questions very compelling. Perhaps Im a brainlet and didnt understand the book

>>18119301
>John left me the impression that Jesus was kinda nuts
Expound upon?

>>18119301
>I didnt find god's answers to his questions very compelling.
That's the point. God can do whatever he wants with anyone and his power and majesty makes it right. If you don't like it, fuck you. That's how it is.

>tfw he can't read

>>18119513
That's not "the point", it's that you do not understand the complexities of things and therefore cannot judge what should or shouldn't be or is or isn't best, even when it comes to your own personal situation, much less anything beyond that.

>>18119608
Same thing.

>>18096389
lol read Job and sneed, nerd.

>>18119902
No, there are profound differences between the 2 views, one's inner orientation is of supreme importance. This even helps to crudely illustrate what many claim to be the difference between heaven and hell. Some say that the "torture" of hell is something akin to a "natural" feeling rooted in one's own hatred for God, etc. So if we take this to be 2 ways of looking at an essential "same thing" then perhaps it is an apt reflection. But there would also be a significant difference in God's motivation, when comparing those 2 views.

>>18119325
The parts where he talks to the jews in symbolic language despite them clearly not understanding him and taking him literally. Felt like he was aggravating them on purpose. Maybe not on purpose but it's kinda nuts how he kept talking about being a giver of eternal life to a bunch of confused pharisees. The gospel states how many people thought he was delusional and I can definetively see why considering the context at the time. The only thing that makes Jesus stand out are the miracles, which if you didnt see first hand take a lot of faith to believe in them

>>18120286
Those are some interesting aspects to have "latched on to", much appreciated. Bear in mind, he was not only addressing the Pharisees and such directly, but also making an example of them for the benefit of observing disciples

>>18094710

>God is just intelligible enough to understand that we can claim all these ideas about morality, the afterlife, and ethical judgement
>But just not intelligible enough so that whenever something happens we can't explain, it's god being mysterious

Yeah.

>>18120333
wasted trips

>>18120328
Imma read the rest of the gospels in due time, see how they compare. Even though I'm not fully convinced of the divinity of Jesus, I wanna find out more about the most popular wandering preacher in history and I suppose the gospels are a good place to start. The old testament is a clusterfuck so I'm just gonna read the "wisdom" books and maybe psalms and call it a day. I think that should give me a good foundation to know how I can be a "good" catholic

what's your favorite single column bible release?

Theres only one religion and its Judaism . Stop following stupid jesus rubbish

>>18120355
Reading Matthew really gave me a new view on life. Something like "everyone will pay the price eventually". Might be because it is the first gospel I read.

>>18119301
Now read Ecclesiastes, Luke-Acts, and Romans

>>18121532
Bless you, son, for the bump at the crucial hour (was near the end of page 10 at that time, I saw). We never know when some lost soul might find a nugget of guidance or comfort from some word or another than an Anon has left in a thread such as this. May we each in some way provide our own meager helps to the glory of Most High God by uplift for those in need.
>>18121627
Each Gospel is special in its own way, all worth reading over and over throughout life.
>>18121915
Good advice.

>>18122679
Forgot pic

So... any good explanations on the Book of Job? Can't really find any good ones.

>>18123945
It's not intended to be some philosophy treatise on the problem of evil. It's an answer to a particularly belief among the Jewish people at the time, which is that bad things happen to bad people. This view was especially problematic because people would regularly be excommunicated from their families and villages simply because they contract some disease or have some other bad fortune that's outside of their control. This bad luck was used as evidence for sin. The book of Job marks an evolution in thought by telling us that bad things sometimes happen to good people and we aren't always going to know why.

>>18123974
This, + we are not equipped with a full enough view of the entirety of reality to be able to judge God's doings and ways.

When kids in Christian communities hear of Virgin Mary for the first time, how do the adults explain to them what a "virgin" is?

>>18124030
I think you mean Catholic communities, Christian communities do not hold such views, other than that she was a virgin (not a capitalized title) when Jesus was conceived. Protestants can read and know that Joseph only knew not Mary until after Jesus was born, and then they had more children which were Jesus' half siblings in the earthly sense. Otherwise, it was explained early on to me that men and women create babies together but that Mary only served to carry and give birth to Jesus who was put into her by God directly.

>>18094710
Good Christians should be reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra now, not the Bible. The Bible became a dead end ever since Christianity lost control of the historical narrative to science. I say this with respect to Christians.

>>18124867
Christianity's allegorical history is more real than any amount of worldly scientific you could ever gather. More importantly, Christianity is the religion of the true present and future as well.

>>18122679
>Bless you, son, for the bump at the crucial hour (was near the end of page 10 at that time, I saw). We never know when some lost soul might find a nugget of guidance or comfort from some word or another than an Anon has left in a thread such as this. May we each in some way provide our own meager helps to the glory of Most High God by uplift for those in need.

Jesus was a false prophet and bastardised Judaism

>>18099249
based

>>18124896
>more real
For you. To the majority, evolution is more convincing, which means the majority can't be culled and made to support you.

>>18124929
Why would I concern myself with the retardations of "the majority"? Narrow is the Way.
>>18124907
How does it feel to be clay in the hands of a "false prophet", whom caused you to serve Him by bumping this thread, and whom you shall face at the end, begging for His mercy?

>>18125016
Shut up goy

>>18125016
>Why would I concern myself with the retardations of "the majority"?
I'm not saying concern yourself with the majority, but you have to play your cards right. There are others who will seize the majority and then use them against you.

>>18125034
"Others" cannot "seize" anything that God does not allow for. If He wills them seized and somehow used "against me" even more than the world already is against me, then so be it, I trust His will.

>>18125053
...they're already doing it. The Christian church won't last another 300 years. Don't say I didn't warn you.

>>18125080
Son, the Holy Bible outright states that in the end times there will be a falling away from the faith. What exactly are you "warning" anyone of that isn't *in* the Holy Bible directly?

>>18125104
>Son, the Holy Bible outright states that in the end times there will be a falling away from the faith.
So does Thus Spoke Zarathustra in a roundabout way. It's the updated Bible for the new age and for that reason more durable and valuable for Christians today. Otherwise, Christians are going to die out within the coming few centuries.

>>18125126
>there's going to be a coming few centuries
I'd recommend the cessation of listening to Satan's lies, son.

>>18125184
No one will care what you have to say pretty soon, because you refuse to adapt.

>>18125201
No one cares what anyone says for longer than about 5 minutes, son, before they are on to the next whatever. Everyone dies, son, nothing matters of such as the concerns which you are putting forth. I live and die as a no one to most everyone within this world, same as most. Have you not read Ecclesiastes?

>>18120120
Wrong. You can still love God if He appears s an inscrutable tyrant who hurts you. Both views are equivalent when considered in the perspective on omniscient omnipotence. Your understanding is not required, only your acceptance and obedience.

>>18125251
>No one cares what anyone says for longer than about 5 minutes
Not true. People listen to those with power. Christians won't have any left soon. Why read the old Bible when the new one inherits the best values from the old while updating the rest to be more durable in the face of the new age we're entering?

>>18125271
>those with power
What a laugh that would be were I the laughing sort.

>>18118674
Can relate anon, I just don't know what to do and I'm faced with the existential dread that comes with death and the judgement that comes with it... and those passages... well I have hope, Christ accepts all, even his followers that stumble and fall too. And besides, I'm pretty sure those passages mean damnation happens if you return back to your old, sinful ways even after accepting Christ, accidents do happen after all.

>>18125292
Enjoy being steamrolled by genetically modified rich kids I guess.

>>18125377
God know what lead you into how you were before. After repentance Jesus becomes your defense lawyer.
>>18125502
Son, I will be passed from this earth well before that comes to any degree of prevalence. Even aside from that I would have no concern for such matters. I have been "steamrolled" by the forces of this world for decades. As Snoop Doggy Dog once said, "If it ain't one thang it's a mother fuckin' other, word to my granny and my daddy and my mother". You are concerned with this world, which passes away. I am concerned with the Kingdom of God, which is eternal.

>>18125579
>As Snoop Doggy Dog once said, "If it ain't one thang it's a mother fuckin' other, word to my granny and my daddy and my mother".

>Decide to read Genesis.
>It's kinda confusing especially after the Fruit of Eden is said to make you know what good and evil is.
>There has to be some kind of metaphor here.
That and what kind of mindset do I need to actually read the bible with? Nearly got filtered in Genesis alone.

>>18126524
Not sure what you mean, it's a creation myth that was much, much older as an oral tradition than when it was first written down. Have you never read any other creation myth?
If you want a completely secular take, it might've partly been an intuition of how the food homo sapiens and their closest ancestors hunted and gathered was what helped set them apart from cousins like gorillas who have to spend most of their day sitting and munching on vegetation to get their calories. Tool usage and being more clever than the other omnivores allowed ancestors of modern humans to access nutritious bone marrow, hunt much more effectively, and be more strategic about food gathering in general. All of that food access was necessary to maintain the expensive energy and nutrient cost of a comparatively complex brain.

>>18126524
A blend of deeply allegorical, historical, transcendental truths. Approach with proper earnest (for those with ears to hear) to unlock that which cannot be spake. Jesus is the Tree of Life. Eat his flesh, drink his blood, have eternal life with him.

>>18094710
I finished Matthew and Mark. At the beginning of Luke now.

>>18106310
I'm just trying to finish my first reading of the Bible before my next birthday so I set that absurd goal. I usually read at least 5 or so chapters a day though.

>>18126655
>>18126684
Excellent. I read a few chapters each of Luke, Exodus, and 1 Maccabees today, along with short dips into Psalms and Proverbs. Tomorrow will likely be about the same. I am finding the "Apocrypha" to be well worth it and intend upon acquiring a physical Holy Bible which includes them (I read them using Bible Hub, though Protestant canon in my physical KJV).

>>18126979
It’s my first time reading the Bible. I’m agnostic at the moment, I’m open to converting to anything desu. I liked Mark more than Matthew.

>>18126997
You may find that over time what you "like" (particularly with "which Gospel") changes with your understanding. That being said, I love Mark. It moves fast and has some interesting "small details". Matthew has a lot of crucial Jesus in it though. Pound for pound I usually think John is my favorite Gospel. It has a very different feel, and part of that is a certain sense of intimacy with Christ.

>>18126997
As someone who doesn't quite believe yet, it makes sense that you would like Mark more (I'm not saying this in a bad way or trying to be insulting in any way.) Mark compared to other gospels is much more "action packed", and also more streamlined. The miracles of Jesus such as healings and casting out demons are given a more detailed and longer narrative in Mark than in other gospels. The focus of that one is to really put the power of Jesus in the spotlight. This is most likely because Mark was writing directly to Christians facing persecution in the early church and trying to remind and encourage believers with the healing power of Christ

Should I read the Apocrypha? Book of Enoch kinda looks interesting to me.

>>18096245
>Yahweh does terrible things. If he did exist, the most good thing we could possibly do is kill him.

>>18128303
Obviously. I consider them canonical as do the Orthodox and Catholics. Where are so many people getting all this Enoch curiosity, there must be some sort of YouTube trend.
>>18128793
What a tard "thinker".

I made a New Year Resolution at the beginning of 2019 to read the entire Douay-Rheims. It was interesting but challenging, especially times when I had to crunch when I fell behind. For me, most of it was easy to read, except the Wisdom literature, which almost felt sinful to read at such a quick pace. It definitely did me more good than harm but I seriously doubt I will ever try to read it that way again. Now I mostly return to the Gospels when I do read the Bible but you get enough of the essentials on Sunday that there's no need to be reading it constantly unless you have a devotion to it as a means of mental prayer. I personally prefer the Rosary or meditating on the Fall of Man and the promise of a Redeemer in Christ.

>>18126997
>>18127021
St. Mark's Gospel is excellent and obviously a lot of scholars say it is the basis of St. Matthew, but the addition of the Sermon on the Mount in St. Matthew's is indispensable. Also the Infancy Narrative!! I remember the Passion being a bit different too.

>>18129791
Sermon on the Mount alone makes Matthew absolutely crucial. I assume the authors of Mark and Matthew knew each other. Mark was a quickly done first document done likely under a sense of urgency. Matthew later got to thinking there were further details that really needed recording in addition, but let's try to get it all into one document. Then later Luke had a similar thought, but was an outsider coming around asking questions and assembling what he thought needed to go along with Acts. I think Acts was actually his primary project and Luke was done from a prequel mindset.

>>18129537
>I consider them canonical as do the Orthodox and Catholics

This is false. Only small sects (Ethiopian Beta Israel) consider Enoch cannon. It has been explicitly rejected by Catholicism and also orthodoxy generally

>>18130153
I mean the primary "Apocrypha", all that is in the 1611 KJV.

>>18130136
Catholic tradition is that St. Mark was copying St. Peter's dictation (amanuensis?) and there is even a theory that St. Like actually interviewed the Blessed Virgin for the Infancy Narrative. I find St. John's account of Jesus entrusting Mary to John compelling evidence of Johannine authorship as well. But indeed it is impossible to know for certain the question of New Testament authorship besides some of St. Paul's letters.

>>18130171
The a good part of the Deuteurocanon was also ordered to be read throughout the year in the Book of Common Prayer. The book of Wisdom certainly points to Christ!

>>18130263
>Catholic tradition is that St. Mark was copying St. Peter's dictation
Yeah, but I highly doubt. I would find it more plausible that Peter simply relayed some stories and then Mark wrote it up, but it doesn't at all read like taking a diction straight from the eyewitness telling how things occurred. The Catholics are well known for just making a bunch of stuff up and claiming it to be "tradition".

>>18094710
>Imagine reading anything other than the Holy Bible or things that are about it
Today I have been reading about the societal conditions leading up to the Reformation. It is fascinating to attempt imagining living in such times, under wide regional essentially total Church rule dominating all aspects of daily life.

Ideally that would be truly great, assuming everyone was properly oriented and motivated, maximizing God's will and teachings in every possible way. In practice, everything humans do is deeply corrupted and the effects are magnified with ever greater concentrations of power and rule.

I have the Time/Life Great Ages of Man set and am presently referencing "The Reformation".

>the part where they eat the goat’s poop

>>18132674
book/chapter/verse, faggot