/lit/ - Literature

>>18091606
I know many people here, really don't consider Alice's Adventures in Wonderland as fantasy, but I have to ask, how did it managed to preserve all of the of the Victorian idiosyncrasy ideals? Many of the things discuss in Alice in Wonderland, has faded to obscurity, with anyone really knowing about is though the book. Can such a feat be replicated in our time, or was Alice a one-time thing?

Just going to lay down some ground rules for this thread.

1. Bakker is the only living author working in genre fiction worth reading. Protest all you like but the facts remain unchanged and you will be subject to scorn and ridicule.

2. Any author who is not Bakker, or his predecessor Tolkien, is cringe, shit, a waste of time, and subject to scorn and ridicule.

3. Only the /sffg/ posted with an accompanying picture of cute girls rendered in the aesthetic of Nipponese animation is a legitimate /sffg/ threads, all others are subject to scorn and ridicule.

>>18091669
>Bakker
>working
Even "living" is questionable

>>18091606
Based anime OP.

>>18091669
Seriously why is modern fantasy such wank?

>>18091606
>tranime thread
will not post in this shit

Any modern fantasy similar to Belgariad or Malloreon?

What do we consider to even count as Modern fantasy? What is the cut off point? And what came before? Can fantasy be cut up into specific, discreet, chronological periods?

Just finished the Unholy Consult and it was damn good. I wasn't really feeling the Aspect-Emperor and thought it was quite a bit worse than PoN but that final book really turned everything around.

>>18091669
>Bakker is the only living author working in genre fiction worth reading.
Bakker is manchild trash.

>>18091606
Fuck off animetranny.

Is there any chinkshit that doesn't get stale after 200 chapters?

Wait do you guys not like Abercrombie or Erickson?

>>18092084
Lord of the Mysteries

>>18092098
I enjoy Abercrombie. I was not a big fan of Malazan though. I read 5 or 6 books before finally dropping the series.

>>18091846
The cutoff is after the last great fantasy book was published, which is of course Madouc

>>18091846
I consider Game of Thrones to be the first "modern fantasy" book

>>18091896
Esmenet parts in the palace were kind of dragging. Maithanet messing with his nephews was fun to read at least. Also fuck Kelmomas, little devil spawn screwed the world over
>>18092105
I thought it would be the other way around, but thinking on it now I'm not really surprised. Malazan does lose steam at one point, and I remember wondering why a new cast of characters was being added halfway through the series, although Tehol and Bugg grew on me eventually.
Check out the Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach instead if you're still willing. No prior reading needed, and it's just some fun stories set in the Malazan world, focusing on a manservant of a necromancer and a demonologist, and the shennanigans they get into.

>>18091606
Anime trannies get the rope

>>18091669
>>18091896
>>18092254
can someone explain why Kellhus did what he did to Proyas? the rape sansa
Was it to ensure Proyas would be mindfucked into becoming an unbeliever for when Kellhus most needed it?
I would have thought the fireside talks would have been enough. Seems more like something Cnaiür would do

>>18092282
Yes. The talks may have been enough but this ensured it. It also had a large effect on Saubon even though he wasn't raped.

>>18092104
I read from one of the review that the MC is quite a moralfaggot in a bad way, is that true?

Obligatory reminder that the Ultimate Colossal Science Fiction and Fantasy Collection torrent is available for all.

>>>/t/1023504

>>18092084
Release the witch is pretty good though when you get to the dream world part just start skimming until the story resumes but that's like 500 chapters in

>>18092084
reverend insanity, lord of the mysteries. thats pretty much it.

>>18092291
What did it do to Saubon? I remember he was surprised Proyas got buttsexed, and he also admitted he was never as fanatic as the other believer lords. Doubt it led to his damnation later on since everyone is apparently damned anyway
Speaking of Saubon, what are other references to the First Crusade? Saubon is clearly Bohemond since he took Caraskand (Antioch)
And in the Prince of Nothing trilogy, the Vulgar Holy War led by Proyas' cousin is meant to be the People's Crusade. Nansur Empire is the Byzantine empire. The Indenture that Ikurei Xerius tried to have the lords sign is similar to Emperor Alexios I Komnenos trying to get the crusading lords to swear fealty/return the lands conquered to Byzantine. Shimeh is Jerusalem. Is Kascamandri supposed to be Saladin?

>>18091669
Hot take: Sanderson is better, unironically. I vastly preferred Mistborn and A Way of Kings to the The Second Apocalypse series.

>>18092906
You just have shit taste. And that's okay.

>>18092850
>reverend insanity
Why do people like that one? The prose is fucking awful and way too miniature and repetitive. You could literally shorten every chapter by like 2-3 thousand words.
And the main character isn't that fascinating either. He's simply an edgelord who believes that everyone is a tool meant to be stepped on or used on his path towards immortality. Sounds interesting at first, but he's so edgy that it becomes boring. Most of his "pragmatic" decisions are utterly retarded in hindsight and only done to make him look impartial or neutral when it only really makes him like a moron.
I read up to around chapter 50 before stopping because the plot had made no meaningful progression. He was still cultivating at the beginner level, he had still hadn't been in a serious fight, and he still hadn't faced anything that challenged him. It was 50 chapters of him essentially bullying his peers and the elders while speedrunning life with his his foreknowledge of the future.
If I were to recommend an xianxia, I'd argue that Desolate Era, Coiling Dragon, Forty Millennium of Cultivation, or Renegade Immortal would be a far more enjoyable read
>>18092084
Desolate Era, Coiling Dragon, Forty Millennium of Cultivation, Lord of the Mysteries or Renegade Immortal

>>18092906
Anon, it doesn't matter who you prefer. It's stupid that here, and in almost all of the discussions about books in general, everybody screams who's better author than the other, just constant rankings instead of just talking about books. It's boring. I come here just to find interesting titles.

>>18092921
>i stopped 50 chapters in
explains why you feel that way lol. At least finish the first arc. Your criticisms of the prose are true but are also true for all other chinkshit, I thought the skyfarrow translation was above average for chinkshit if anything.

>>18092906
I got filtered before when Achamian got cucked. Reading the series again 5 years later + with knowledge of the First Crusade helped me appreciate it more.

Way of Kings is still straight up more entertaining to read still because its basically western anime. Then again I doubt Bakker meant for his series to be entertaining at all what with all the damnation

Cultivation is just semen retention right? All those chink books are about dudes saving up the biggest load so they can become god.

>>18092934
best way to find interesting titles here is probably checking out the mega linked in the op, or asking for specific recs like that one guy up the thread asking about chink books

Fuck E William Brown.
Fuck Pay Piggies.
Fuck keeping readers in the dark.
Fuck paywalls.
Fuck not communicating with your fanbase.

>>18092986
>Fuck not communicating with your fanbase.
Why the fuck would you expect the author to talk to you? He wrote the book, you enjoyed it, he owes you nothing. It would piss me off no fucking end if fanboys who have read my book kept pestering me about it. When Stranger in a Strange Land took off among the the hippie community and they started camping around Heinleins home to be near their favourite author the first thing he did with the earnings from his book was to build a big ass fence around his property.

>>18090293
Anon, that series is shit. I was weary of touching the goddamn cat series after reading the author's blacksmith son. It's badly paced, protagonists switch character mid book, and it turns into YA shitshow.

>>18093011
>Why the fuck would you expect the author to talk to you
Not me, faggot. He said he would post an update in his blog every month to keep fans up to date. He said it, not us. He was keeping his promise until 2 years ago. Now you have to be a pay piggie slut to read how far he is with books.

Fuck u and fuck e william brown.

Any good fantasy novels for children? Red wall was recommended for me.

>>18093199
Bartlett series by Odo Hirsch

>>18093199
>for children?
>Red wall
Kind of. Redwall is for kids like Watership Down is for kids, it's presented in a childish manner while being absurdly violent.

>>18091292
I agree, not even on their books but just on them as an author. Sanderson is a cool guy (even if what he writes is... not that great) but Rothfuss is a pretentious twat and deserves to be forgotten

>>18091304
It's very interesting that you bring up Nabokov, and you definitely have a point. This essay is from his Lectures on Literature book, and its where he first introduces the ideas of what makes 'good readers' and 'bad readers'
>http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/scans/goodre.html
Something interesting to note (that I only picked up on after reading this several times–Nabby is one of those authors that needs several readings to really wring out what he's saying) is that, he doesn't condemn 'emotional reading' (reading with 'your heart instead of your mind' more or less; reading and holding a book in high regard because it evokes memories or nostalgia or you relate to the characters). He's just saying that an 'emotional connection' isn't the only reason a person should hold a book in high regard. He says that an author is three things: a storyteller (who provides entertainment, excitement, and emotional participation), a teacher (who provides a moral, or direct facts and knowledge), and an enchanter (who provides 'magic'), and he says that an author needs all three to be great, but first and foremost, an author needs to be an 'enchanter' to become truly transcendent ("If the enchanter leaves and the storyteller and the moralist (the teacher) remain alone, they make poor company.")

The reason I'm even bringing this up is because this is very applicable to the state of fantasy literature today. A majority of readers are "bad readers"–using this video and the response to Bakker as an example, the readers complain and denounce his books because there is no emotional 'hook' for them; they must be emotionally invested in a book before they can praise it, ignoring other elements such as the structure and the author's style in their considerations.

At the same time, a majority of fantasy authors currently working are simply good 'Storytellers'–they provide the three E's (excitement, entertainment, and emotions) in spades, but as far as morals or direct knowledge goes, they provide little (if they do it at all), and as 'enchanters' there seems to be virtually none. Of course, 'writer-as-enchanter' is a bit harder to define but Nabokov does expand on all three roles later on in his lectures (I'm currently going through his book again and reformatting my notes, which I'd be happy to discuss if anybody was interested), but I feel like this is an issue we can really talk about since it affects both fantasy writers and fantasy readers. What are you guys' thoughts?

>>18093576
I wouldn't say absurdly violent; it's more violent than most but its not gory or explicit, its just suggestive

>>18093639
>its just suggestive
You either missed a lot of the more violent entries in the series or you've forgotten. There's a whole lot of extremely explicit violence, especially in the ones that follow Martin the Warrior
>That one Squirrel girl who gets impaled and goes completely berserk with blood foaming at her mouth before she gets mobbed and cut to pieces

>>18093627
To clarify, it seems that the fantasy genre has become a self-feeding cycle–fantasy readers demand and expect 'the three E's' from their stories, and the fantasy writers focus on becoming 'storytellers' first and foremost to fulfill the wishes of the readers. At the same time, because the fantasy writers are providing 'the three E's' in excessive amounts, the modern fantasy reader has become conditioned to expect them (and them above everything else) in their stories; the people who expect more from their stories fall away because modern fantasy isn't providing for them, and the people who read primarily to get emotional highs remain.

So this presents a dilemma for the modern fantasy writer. Do you focus primarily on providing those three E's so that modern fantasy readers will actually read and enjoy your stories? Or do you focus on other things, and risk falling into obscurity? It's not like we can educate all modern fantasy readers on how to become 'good readers' so either we stoop to their level ('stoop' is a harsh word; despite their bad reading habits, we shouldn't have disdain for our fantasy readers), or we become obscure and eventually forgotten.

Do I need to read all of Sanderson's prior stuff to get the most out of Stormlight? The soys on Reddit seem to think so

>>18093768
Nah. At worst you might not pick up on a reference, or who a character really is chapters before Sanderson goes ahead and fills you in anyway.

>>18093768
Nah, a few cameos will go over your head but that's about it. Most you'll lose is one moment that's supposed to be shocking for previous readers who are supposed to go "that's the thing from that one book!"

>>18091684
Oh he’s alive, although he seems to have lost the will to live. Completing the series seems to have been a feat that broke the man.

>>18091606
Any good books with magic schools/academies?

>>18093823
head on a pole
head on a pole
head on a pole
what was that scene supposed to be anyway? didn't Bakker just say it was some weird effect he saw while drinking coffee somewhere and there was a mirror
nvm found it
>The image itself comes from a curious optical illusion I continually experienced while writing in this particular coffee shop. Whenever I sat in this one chair, I saw the silhouette of a severed head on a pole over my shoulder - and it just so happened that I was writing the first draft of these Kellhus sections at the time. It creeped me out, and given my old Derridean obsession with the paradoxes of the time of telling versus the time told, I thought it a cool way to evoke the omnipresence of the infernal eternal, as well as to provide yet another clue regarding the unclean entity residing within.

malazan is terrible audiobook

>>18093861
>muh infernal eternal
>muh derrida
what a edgelord pseud kek

>>18093861
>I thought it a cool way to evoke the omnipresence of the infernal eternal

why is /sffg/ always so dead during American hours

>>18093857
Real question, btw. I'm not doing that shitpost thing where I ask an inane question with a coom image attached. I really want to know about books with magic school.

>>18093861
From an in-story perspective, I figured the head on a pole is just a totem that tethers him to the real world while traversing the outside. Though it could be more important than that and be a hint that he is actually one of the decapitants so he's not actually dead.

>>18092869
Important difference with real life is that they were no brown subhumans Ketyai doing the crusading, it was almost 100% Germanic warriors (aka Norsirai), if you ignore a handful of faithless greedy mercs from Genoa

>>18093011
It’s just bad marketing. Updating your readers on the progress makes them stay around and stay interested, i.e. they’re much more likely to buy the next book. You also risk pissing off your readers if you just disappear without a word, which is what he did. These are people that bought your books and made an investment in a series, so you should at least tell them that you won’t do more updates instead of just disappearing.

I'm on book 8 of the wheel of time. All Egwene has to do is say fuck the Hall, teleport to Rand, swear fealty, and the Hall will be dissolved while Aes Sedai and ashaman combine forces to fuck shit up. Why is there so much stubborn drama between the men and women? I guess it's like real life in a way but shit, it's so pointless when aes sedai pride and ashaman reactions are meaningless in the face of fucking SHAITAN. It doesn't make sense. Swearing fealty to Rand isn't even a big deal, you can still pretty much do whatever you want unless you're a leader, like Bashere, Perrin, Mat, etc. They're the ones that have to bend over but some Brown sister? She can keep cataloguing 9000 species of wild mint or seabirds. Not only that, doesn't everyone know about linking? Linked, they would utterly devastate Seanchan. Kidnap sURTOH or whatever her name is, put her to the question, find out a rough estimate of where the Seanchan come from, and teleport hundreds of aes sedai/ashaman and just sink them into the fucking OCEAN. Then go to Shayol Ghul, it's not hard to find RIGHT THERE on the map, and just blow it up with one power nukes.

Also Rand should've teamed up with Lanfear. Giving her the D every night would've shut her right up.

>>18094335
>Egwene
>swear fealty

>>18094335
Egwene is a power hungry cunt and the very concept of someone being above her triggers the shit out of her.

>>18094359
She honestly doesn't even have to go that far.
>hey rand, my childhood crush
>yes
>i know you hate aes sedai because blah blah, but tarmon gaiden is approaching and...
>of course
>oh good you understand that the end of the world is more important than petty bickering and spite, let's celebrate by linking, male and female, and deposing elaida effortlessly, drive out the seanchan in a dozen chapters, and nuke shayol ghul with the help of no more than maybe 100-200 good aes sedai/ashaman
>>18094366
So is Rand. It's his birthright and destiny to do so. Egwene, being as powerful as she is, is LITERALLY PERFECT for him. Nynaeve has Lan I guess but I'm not buying this Gawyn bullshit. It came out of fucking nowhere. Rand just needs to give Egwene a good fucking and she'd be his. In fact, most of the problems in the book would be solved if Rand just fucked as many of the out of control cunts as he could.

>>18093857
More of a webnovel though it's quite good, Mother of Learning. It's a time loop story set in magic school.

>>18094397
You're being reductive and stupid. Egwene is an antagonist, and they don't even particularly like each other.

>>18094397
You seem to be under the misguided impression that Egwene is rational. She is not. She is completely self righteous, arrogant, and power hungry. Asking for help, especially from a man, to put the Aes Sedai back in order is one of the last things she would ever do.

>>18094415
>antagonist
I guess I haven't gotten very far yet. My impression of Egwene is that she is, book 8 at least, 10% Two River innkeeper's daughter, 50% Aiel, 20% Moiraine-tier Blue Ajah, and only 20% Amyrlin. She hardly seems a bitch, she actively WANTS to meet with Rand and help but the Hall has rules for her leaving because of her position. I'm just shitposting with the reductiveness but still, now is the perfect time for her to say fuck off to Lelaine and Romalda (forgot their names), take Siuan and I don't know, Myrelle? And just meet with Rand, two former friends who have a mildly warm but cooling relationship. If I read more, I assume she despises Rand and it becomes a real Cold War scenario but so far, it makes no sense not to do SOMETHING other than... absolutely nothing on their march northward. A perfect idea, before letting Logain go, would be to take Logain with her and offer him as a reward to Rand in return for renewed friendship and a treaty between Aes Sedai and Ashaman.
>>18094459
She seems neither exceptionally rational nor irrational so far in the story. She only clings to power because she is afraid of being trampled by elder sisters like Lelaine or Sheriam. She is a self righteous and arrogant but the SAME THING could be said of... 99% of all females in these books. Fucking farmwives are full of themselves.
>Asking for help, especially from a man, to put the Aes Sedai back in order is one of the last things she would ever do.
Putting the Aes Sedai back in order doesn't even matter in comparison to Tarmon Gaiden or whatever it's called. The actual end of the world is approaching, everyone knows this, it's a prophecy hammered into everyone's skull, but nothing seems to matter except petty retard politics. It's one thing to be, I don't know, some minor noble in the Borderlands and not believe Rand is the Dragon, but Egwene 100% KNOWS, she had Moghedien under her thumb, so there's no excuse for not focusing every last ounce of effort and resource into fighting the Dark One.

>>18094335
>Also Rand should've teamed up with Lanfear
yes
>>18094397
>She honestly doesn't even have to go that far.
Basically. The entirety of politics in WoT is pants on retarded but from the moment of Mat meeting idiot trio in Salidar, it becomes another tier of hilariously, dumb and forced. All spun so that Elayne, Mat, Nyaneve can be dumped into another set of filler plotlines and AS stuff dragged till infinity.

>>18094531
>She hardly seems a bitch, she actively WANTS to meet with Rand
No she doesn't ? Read further, it's in book 8 or 7, during the meeting with wise ones. Egwene actively sabotaged Rand when with Aiel and signs off on her embassy trying to kick Rand out of Andor while she's actively marching on his territories.

>>18092243
The Eye of the World for me

>>18094531
>She hardly seems a bitch,
She's the biggest bitch in the series aside from the villains.
>She only clings to power because she is afraid of being trampled by elder sisters like Lelaine or Sheriam.
No. She's flat out power hungry.
>She is a self righteous and arrogant but the SAME THING could be said of... 99% of all females in these books.
Sure, most females are. But Egwene takes it to a whole nother level.
>but Egwene 100% KNOWS, she had Moghedien under her thumb, so there's no excuse for not focusing every last ounce of effort and resource into fighting the Dark One.
You're right. But Egwene is a terrible person who often thinks the worst of her "friends" (particularly Rand) for no reason. Couple this with her arrogance and other issues and it's perfectly in character for her to not ask Rand for help.

>>18094539
Oh God does the filler get worse? Every book since the 3rd has had nearly 200 pages of nothing happening and long descriptions retelling character backgrounds and motivations. It's like TV and anime recaps but worse since it takes hours to get through and you might miss a hint of something interesting or important if you skip it. Tanchico was really boring and Ebou Dar was okay but dragged on way too long. Queen Tylin was fucking hot at least.
>politics in WoT
Politics make sense for some of the petty rulers and nobles but shouldn't make a difference in regards to Egwene. Hell, even Elaida, as retarded as she is, knows not to still Rand because he has to fight the final battle. Nothing should matter except the certainty that Shaitan must be defeated.
>>18094559
I guess I haven't got there yet. Just started 8. It doesn't make sense. She knows he's to give Elayne the throne, that's why Mat showed up. My point stands that she could have taken Logain to Caemlyn/Cairhien/wherever Rand was in lieu of the embassy, butter him up, reminisce about the Two Rivers, and chip away at a treaty/alliance between Aes Sedai and Ashaman. As a show of respect, she could be invited to the Black Tower, alone with Rand, and inspect the men, then take a few back to the Salidar rebels she leads as ambassadors. Even better, encourage Ashaman and Aes Sedai to become warders of each other so they can better link up and fight. Some of them might marry each other. If everything goes well, the next generation would be incredibly powerful, assuming the world doesn't end.
>>18094613
I distinctly recall Egwene considering going to Rand herself to settle things the right way but choosing not to because the Hall would complain. She does seem to assume the worst of people, but so does every woman. They all "mind-read" men, thinking they're pigs and drunkards and louts. I'm an incel, is this what actual women are like? It seems exhausting.

>>18091684
He's living, I saw him a couple days ago in Simcoe, rail of a man but alive

>>18094335
bros I thought Asmodean was going to stick around and become best buds with Rand
Who wouldn't want a pet Forsaken to teach them all the hard weaves and to pick up some of the slack when fighting Trollocs with some high powered blasting
fuuuucking Graendal
>>18094647
Egwene is going to kneel or she will be knelt

>>18094692
You're right anon, Asmodean was a bro. And Lanfear was a perfect piece of ass. The three of them would wreck the other Forsaken. I don't understand a lot of the character conflict in these books. I guess I'm autistic or something. People just hate each other for no good reason and turn down incredible offers. Of course Aes Sedai should be wary of channeling men but all it takes is one young Accepted falling in love with a Dedicated or whatever they're called and relations would thaw. Also, "times are changing" is a big theme, evident by Egwene accepting all wilders like the Kin. Why can't they accept channeling men, too, knowing it's healthy and necessary to fight literal Satan?
>Egwene is going to kneel or she will be knelt
It shouldn't have to come to that. The only Aes Sedai who need to be bent to the will of the Dragon are the Red Ajah.

>>18094660
Yeah, I saw Bakker at a grocery store in Hamilton yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

What an ass, honestly.

Reminder that Egwene send some thugs to sexually assault Nynaeve in dreamland just to cover her own lies and hypocrisy. And of course she doesn't feel remorse for this, rather she is downright giddy and can't wait to see if the power dynamic shift sticks.

>>18094256
Which is more likely, everything being according to Kellhus' plan with the good ol' decapitant switcharoo and Kellhus ending up fixing everything in the next book
or
Kellhus really was driven insane and the Thousandfold Thought failed him because it couldn't perceive Ajokli and the No-God much like how Yatwer couldn't perceive Kelmomas, so Kellhus had to bug out into one of the decapitants when shit started going wrong - so he'll mostly be a non character next book while Achamian and Esmenet try to fix shit
>>18094281
Are Normans considered germanic? And weren't Godfrey, Baldwin, Raymond and bunch of others french?

>>18094647
>Oh God does the filler get worse?
I threw towel halfway through PoD but just from that half and spoiler osmosis, yes. But for me Tanchico and Ebou Dar is filler too. Really what character other than Rand is doing anything of relevance to the main story - fighting the big baddie ? No one. Egwene's end goal does but that's long way off. Jordan had no fuckin clue what to do with his bloated cast between beginning and whatever he thought up for them at the end.

>>18094802
Probably the latter, so we can get an Achamian sneaks into Golgotterath just like Seswatha did arc.

>>18094764
>but he kept cutting me off and going “head on a pole? head on a pole? head on a pole?”
fixed
>>18094740
>Lanfear as another woman for Rand
give the Dragon a break already, he's already half-mad because of all the women around him
Rand and Sammael teaming up to take on Mashadar would have been kino

>>18094802
Probably a mix of the two. Kellhus seems to have known he was being possessed by Ajokli. I expect that he had some plan to break the possession likely involving Serwa and Kayutas.
What he did not expect was Kelmomas. He seems pretty damn shocked when Kel shows up.

>>18094813
Path of Daggers? That's the one I just started. I barely remember Tanchico other than Liandrin and the Seanchan lady who was actually nice. Is Cpt Domon a self-insert of Robert Jordan? I don't know why but I get that impression. Ebou Dar wasn't too bad because Tylin was a cougar and I pictured her as Yoko Ono in footie pajamas for some reason, plus the bowl of the winds seems ultra important. The weather is fucked and everyone will die of famine if it isn't fixed. Since the bowl requires male+female channeling, that right there is a PRIME reason for Egwene to present herself to Rand and start over from square one, diplomatically, on top of setting Logain free. I'm guessing none of my imagination will come true and Egwene becomes a huge bitch for no reason.
>>18094846
I didn't even think of that. I'm worried about later Forsaken. They seem pretty serious and no-nonsense comparatively. I doubt Semirhage or Mesaana have any positive personality quirks.

>>18094802
>Are Normans considered germanic? And weren't Godfrey, Baldwin, Raymond and bunch of others french?
They're literally descended from Vikings who settled in Normandy. Even so, real French are mostly Franks when their blood is unadulterated by Mediterranean pollution.

>>18093857
There's Mage Errant but you may not think it good.

>>18094830
shit you're probably right
>>18094882
who's even left to resist the no-god?
Saubon, Proyas, and believer host are toast. Most of the schools were rekt and the nonmen got fucked up in that last fight. You just reminded me Serwa and Kayutas were still alive at least. Were Cnaiür and Moënghus still alive last we saw them? Maybe Zeum can cough up some troops

I may drop Iron Prince as I am in the 40%s and it has shown an increasingly formulaic trend. While archive digging, I saw someone mention that the MC's best friend fucks his bully behind his back at some point which sounds like the dumbest shit.

>>18094894
what this guy said
daily reminder the Normans are all descended from my boy Rollo, hell even the modern british royal family are descended from him

>>18094920
Serwa seemed to be dead, tbqh. At least from the last scene describing her.
The faggot weeper is almost definitely dead, too.

>>18094920
Serwa's fate is left ambiguous but she seems dead. Cnaiur seems to have died. Moenghus is still around though and is now the leader of the Scylvendi. Ironically, the Scylvendi will probably be a large part of the force that opposes the No-God.

>>18094948
Ah right she didn't see that 100th tear of god or something. Didn't she only get kind of salted and she teleported a bunch of people in the end though?
kek at faggot weeper. Cnaiur reminds me of a Karsa Orlong without the plot armor.
>>18094972
What happened to him again? I remember Moenghus mercy killed Proyas but I'm drawing a blank at what happened to him and the rest Scylvendi. Last thing I remember reading was Cnaiur walking toward Golgotterath
If Cnaiur is dead I do hope he ends up as a Ciphrang and we see him again if Kellhus has to go through hell or some shit to get out of his predicament

>>18092818
I'm about a hundred chapters in and I haven't seen anything to describe as "particularly bad moralfagging".
He's just your average guy who don't want no trabbu, thinks homos are weird and fights for discounts tooth and nail.

>>18094992
I meant the scene describing Kayutas holding her broken body. It's ambiguous, either way.

>>18094891
>I'm worried about later Forsaken.
Yeah they're mostly dicks, I think Asmodean was the only one capable helping out Rand and sticking around, and that's because he was a coward who wanted to side with the winners.
Won't spoil since I see you're still on the 8th book
Graendal's positive quirks are her big tiddies
Demandred I guess has some positive quirks if you consider the cut Sanderson stuff as canon, but you'll see what I mean if you still have a hankering for wheel of time when you've finished the series
Watch out for the next few books because it's a slog, you can probably ignore the Faile parts later when it starts to drag. Always worth it for some Rand and Ashaman shit at least

>>18094992
Before he does he suicide charge against the No-God, Cnaiur (who at this point has been possessed by a god) names Moenghus his successor and says that if the Scylvendi betray Moenghus he will come fuck them up as a wraith.

>>18095027
ah man I should reread unholy consult since I've already gone through the slog of slogs (esmenet parts) at least Kayutas is still alive, best son should at least be able to do something
>>18095052
>will fuck them up as a wraith
returning as a ciphrang confirmed

>>18093857
I remember liking Children of the Red King (Charlie Bone) books when I was younger. They're definitely middle-grade though.

>>18095062
>best son
Based. He's also my favourite.
Probably because he gets literally no character exploration and all the other characters are gamers, cucks, incels and women.

>>18095042
I've read over 6000 pages at this point, I'm not quitting no matter how brutal it gets. I spent 10 years playing WoW, I think I can at least read the Wheel of Time series. What keeps me going is just how real the characters feel, even if some seem a bit oddly written. I'm waiting for the day Mazzim Taim explodes at Rand, when Logain earns that crown Min saw above his head in the vision. Lan finding Nynaeve was anticipated but bittersweet, so maybe I'll be disappointed.
>Faile
Thanks for reminding me, anon. One of the few characters I can't stand. She's the distillation of every female's worst qualities, aside from her beak and milkers. She seems like a quintessential JAP.

>>18095092
>look up these books, vaguely remember them as a kid
>another fucking character with my fetish as a power
They really were out to fucking get me, eh
Hypnotism btw

>>18095093
Who's the gamer? Conphas?
We only ever saw Kayutas through the eyes of Sorweel yes? And it was mostly him being a straight man and sometimes going into a trance
shit I forgot about Sorweel and how he was completely subsumed in the end by the White Luck Warrior

>>18095163
kayutas was just a super discount kellhus who got owned by the meat

I don't remember when Jordan started going away from 1 chapter = 1 POV but I'm sure he realised every body was going to skip any chapter with Elayne, Egwen, Nynaeve and Perrin and didn't want us to do it.

>>18093768
no although consider reading Warbreakers at some point, theres a bunch of characters that show up, one is kind of important to the plot in book 4 but you dont need to know their origin

whats a good master and apprentice series? in the mood for some comfy father figures

>>18095515
>Elayne, Egwen
Agreed
>Nynaeve
She was insufferable at the start with the braid pulling, but once Lan fucked her she honestly becomes based
>Perrin
His chapters were good up til the Two Rivers defense

What is golden pill ?

>>18095849
miles and miles of alien gold....

>>18095292
If you can't do magic you might as well be impotent.

>>18095707
Rising Sun.

Morningstar was good, but this whole analogue going on with Nomads being Jews really isn't working. Like, I'm trying to turn over a new leaf and stop being /pol/ in my real life but I didn't know people who have never tried being racist genuinely think that the actual Nazis just turned around and got everyone to hate the Jews overnight and for literally no reason at all.

This was a slow starter, but worth it by the end, I think. It took me a while to understand what the book was really about, and I think it aids in enjoyment to go in knowing that it's simply a story about a boy growing into his role as an enlightened warrior. The first half of the book is entirely taken up with his childhood, sheltered from the politics and major events of the world outside his training halls, the only focus on the lives of a band of boys being trained for war. I felt that the story picked up considerably, however, once he no longer had teachers whom he could trust implicitly. Being forced to go out into the world and make his own choices with the lessons he'd learned as a boy, and the difficulty of these choices is heightened for the reader as a result of having been present for his formative moments. I don't know that the book ever becomes really exciting or heart wrenching, but I was invested in the main character and was satisfied as it came to a close.

My only serious complaint is that the author has a habit of giving the main character revelations that he thinks about only in fragments, so it's clear that he understands what's going on but as a reader it's difficult to be sure whether the writer is being purposefully obscure or alluding to something obvious that you missed. The pinnacle of this was when he met a young girl, and after hearing her name asked her age while in shock. He proceeds to repeat her age over and over in his head. I could not for the life of me figure out what any of this was supposed to mean until it was spelled out in the next chapter that this girl was a secret half sister he didn't know he had. Very confusing.

Still, distinctly, stolidly enjoyable book, 8/10.

Surprised that with the massive amount of books easily available to us now that nobody has even attempted to put together some kind of 'modern' (i.e., 20th century–forwards) fantasy canon of some sorts. If you were tasked with making a definitive list of 26 writers whose were essential to the modern fantasy canon, who would you choose? Obviously Tolkien, his influence is so keenly felt throughout all of modern fantasy literature, and even almost 50 years after his death is one of the best-selling fantasy authors of all time. I'd also say Robert E Howard for his contributions to the creation of the sword-and-sorcery subgenre. It has to be a list of writers whom all other fantasy writers measure themselves against, who would you put?

>>18096980
best skip the followups mate, first was the only good book in that series.

>>18096963
i don't think any of gemmell's stories are intended to parallel real world stuff. it's just heroic fantasy, not some allegory for da jooz. turn your /pol/ down a few notches.

>>18097040
I would also add GRRM (for better or worse; GoT is very much highly influential, and I have seen many modern fantasy authors comparing themselves or measuring their own work–in some capacity–to GRRM, so he'd have to be included)

>>18097040
Le Guin
Lewis
Murakami
Rowling
Tchaikovsky
Lovecraft

>>18097050
I feel compelled to pick up the next to see what happens between him and Sherin, so the best way you can stop me is to spoil how their relationship ends

>>18097096
LeGuin is a solid one

CS Lewis is debatable

Murakami isn't really a fantasy writer, let alone a very influential one

Rowling is a good choice–HP singlehandly ruined an entire generation

Tchaikovsky is a composer, no?

Lovecraft is more prominent in cosmic horror fields, but his presence is very much felt on the list with the addition of Robert E Howard (and possibly Clark Ashton Smith)

>>18097112
Badly. Just like everything else. Different anon here. Listen to him when he says to stop at the first book.

>>18097115
Adrian Tchaikovsky, maybe too recent for canon entry.
I don't think Lewis is very debatable, his influence on a generation of british fantasy writers is undeniable, and Till we Have Faces is an unassailably great book.
I don't quite understand why magic realism isn't a sub genre of fantasy in your framework

>>18097134
>magic realism isn't a sub genre of fantasy in your framework
muh 100 years of solitude
muh serious literature

>>18097040
Honestly Bakker has ruined modern fantasy for me. Why can't modern fantasy writers write epic fantasy anymore?

>>18097147
cause modern fantasy has to be political now

>>18093011
If you feel in this day and age, that you can be an author without letting your fans know your progress, and still keep fans, you are wrong.

Do you know how many thousands swore off Martin, Rothfuss and Lynch because of the shit they pull?

>>18097140
Just because they want to pretend they're not writing genre fiction doesn't mean we should indulge them, and if they produce an influential writer they should be considered for the fantasy canon

>>18097154
Zero, they'd all buy their books in a heartbeat if they ever released one

>>18097165
Good think they never will :^P

>>18097147
This is where I'm conflicted. With all the Bakkerposting in the past couple of months, I'm unable to tell if they're being serious about all the philosophical themes in his work or if their just shitposting. Has there been a previous work of fantasy comparable to his? He might be in consideration for the canon if we can't find something of the same magnitude of TSA

>>18097134
>I don't quite understand why magic realism isn't a sub genre of fantasy in your framework
Because magic realism is defined enough to be its own genre seperate from modern fantasy, and if you add it, you have to start adding authors like Jorge Luis Borges and that's just a completely different can of worms

>>18097155
Most fantasy is YA tier and no one wants their "serious work" to be associated with that.

McCarthy already dabbed on magic realism so the rest of us don't have to
It should have stopped with Borges

>>18097178
I think you're creating a falsely restrictive definition of fantasy. For your purposes it would perhaps be more useful to say you're looking to create a canon of epic Fantasy writers or somesuch. Fantasy is a broad umbrella, and it should be.

>>18096980
For the love of god, don't read the sequels.

>>18097178
>I'm unable to tell if they're being serious about all the philosophical themes in his work or if their just shitposting.
The themes are real, but Bakker was channelling the zeitgeist of his time. Both him and Watts released books that are essentially built around cognitive science. The zeitgeist of recent years is sadly all identity politics.

>>18097181
Most serious work will only ever be read by miserable highschool freshmen, so we might as well classify it as YA

>>18093627
Could you elaborate on the enchanter? I’m writing some fantasy and I’d like it to be firing on all cylinders.

>>18091606
>look up the recommended charts
>they include more or less every sci-fi and fantasy book ever written
What the fuck is this shit? Doesn't this thread have it's own favourites?

>>18097374
You're going to split the thread between Bakkerboys and Sanderboys, with the rare person who enjoys reading the crap written by today's Hugo/Nebula winners.

>>18097412
More like bakkersoys and sandersoys
Wolfegang rise up

>>18097374
READ
GENE
WOLFE

>>18094335
How are you coping bro? I'm also on the same book and I read about 3 chapter straight where NOTHING happened, and not in a comfy look at the world way.
Kind of hard to keep going, I've severely reduced the amount of pages i read a day.

>>18097512
there's nothing of value in WoT past book 3 or so, there's like a book and a half of worthwhile content spread over 11 fucking books, the last 3 are especially shitty since sanderson finished the series.
do not recommend unless you have literally nothing else to read.

>>18097343
I'm no Nabakov but the advice I've given here which I think is related is that there are specific things that enchant people and you need to know which you're targeting. In my mind, those things are whimsy, spirituality, and violence. You can tell a solid story with great prose, but without any of those three things, it will be shit, because they could just go outside and live their own lives rather than try to figure out your soulless piece of craft. You might have some other concepts that you think qualify as enchanting outside of my three (I'd like to hear them) but I think the important thing is that you have a developed opinion and conceptualization of something along those lines, and have appreciated how other authors have put such concepts to work in their own stories.

>>18097374
Few posters ITT actually read anything.

>>18097576
Sunken cost fallacy, if I stop reading now after getting invested in the setting and reading thousands and thousands of pages I feel like I would be letting myself down.
Completely irrational I know, but I have to finish it now.

>>18097628
honestly if i could go back to when i was reading the 4th book and just tell myself to drop it, i would. it is entirely a sunk cost fallacy series, it starts strong and then some annoying shit happens, and it just kinda keeps happening and gets more annoying and less satisfying til you reach the end.
then you look back at the thousands of pages you've read and go 'well that was a waste of my limited time on this earth during the one life i will ever get to experience' and you get really fuckin mad.
you're better off looking up a synopsis of the future books, it'll feel bad but then you'll read through all of that in 15 minutes, realize you just saved yourself days of reading and you can go read something else, something actually worth reading.

>>18097374
This thread's favourites are garbage, I recommend using this list instead

https://greatsfandf.com/Authors/master-list.php

>>18089384
>Sin and Soil series
Please tell me the protag gets revenge on the people who kicked his shit in at the start of the book?

>>18097676
>it's just every fucking book again
Not even that guy but come on

Test

>>18097576
Book 4 is the best of the series and book 6's climax is amazing and one of the best ever. But, yeah, it really goes to shit after that. Rand's plot stays pretty consistently good but all the rest of the plots are pretty awful.

God the absolute state of those manga charts in the OP mega has me motivated to try make some actually relevant to this thread.

How would you guys feel about:
>Hard Sci-Fi
>Soft Sci-Fi
>Alternative History (with a degree of fantasy/surreality)
>Western Fantasy (e.g. primarily inspired by Tolkien, D&D, etc.)
>Non-Western Fantasy (e.g. primarily inspired by Buddhism, shinto, Japanese folklore, etc.)
Charts for manga? I could try do specific sub-genres for sci-fi but I fear that would just be a bunch of small pictures with 8-12 recs each unless I took the lazy route the mega charts did and just cram in every notable work regardless of if its shit or not.

Might also try something for euro/indie comics so that section isn't all capeshit too.

>>18097775
Literally nobody here talks about manga or comics in this thread. You have whole boards for that. Go away

>>18097775
There's enough general charts that any new ones are going to disappear into the rest.

I'd rather see more like pic related. Focused on a specific sub-genre with thematic links, notes on the work, chronology etc.

>>18097775
The manga charts seem legitimately fine to me, but if you want to make your own you should post them on /a/ and not here

>>18097343
Glad you asked; I was beginning to get discouraged that nobody wanted to discuss any of the stuff I typed out above. Maybe I should just start a blog lol. To the best of my knowledge, when Nabokov says 'magic' he doesn't mean that DisneyTM kind of magic, he means that more literary kind of 'magic,' the kind he valued highly as a reader himself. In all my reading, I've concluded there are six essential parts of a book: Plot, Setting, Characters, Themes, Structure, and Style.
>Plot = the events and happenings in the world of the book that make up the 'story'
>Setting = the setting (and duration of time) that the story takes place in
>Characters = self-explanatory
>Themes = Nabby described theses as 'images that re-appear here and there throughout the novel' and later clarifies by likening them to what we could call allusions and motifs
>Structure = the way we label the events and the plot of the story, and how they relate to one another. I'll elaborate on this in a minute
>Style = the author's prose, sentence structure, vocabulary, wordplay, etc
Technically, there's a seventh (called the Controlling Idea by Mckee, or the Premise by Egri), but its only mentioned in books that cover writing for mediums other than books (i.e., movies and theater) so I'm not including it here. The storyteller provides the setting, the characters, and the plot, the teacher provides the themes (often in the form of a moral), and the enchanter provides the Style and Structure.

STRUCTURE: Nabokov's definition of Structure (which is something I'm still struggling to fully understand) was
>"The composition of a book, a development of events, one event causing another, a transition from one theme to another, the cunning way characters are brought in, or a new complex of action is started, or the various themes are linked up or used to move the novel forward."
The best way I could describe and clarify is idea is, 'how the events in the plot are classified." For example, we have a Three Act Structure, or something like the 'Inciting Incident, Complications, Crisis, Climax, Resolution' sequence, etc. These are very reductive, simple, and common structures but hopefully you get the idea.

STYLE: This is, like I previously said, the author's prose, wordplay, descriptions, etc. Sanderson, for example, has a very basic, descriptive, often repetitive style. Tolkien's style intentionally mimics the style of the old English epics by using high archaic language and things like "Lo!" and "Behold!" and that kind of thing.

>>18097914
Nabokov's definition of structure seems more like what we would call progression nowadays

>>18093694
>we become obscure and eventually forgotten
Obscure and forgotten, eventually another Bakker will rise. Majority of fantasy has always been schlock.

Gene Wolfe has seriously affected me. No matter what I read, I can't stop thinking about The Death of Doctor Island. I think Pringles man has given me instructions on how to fix my life.
>ignacio is raised all alone
>could be great but he's afraid of women
>gets over it by raping and murdering one

>>18097914
I feel like this kind of analysis is entirely useless to someone looking to actually write fantasy. Sure, these are the components of a story, but what about, you know, fun? I guess "fun" would be filed under "style" in your cataloging, but what can an author do to introduce "fun" into their style? I just think it's a useless way to think of things. Nothing in this post is immediately useful to anyone trying to write a fantasy novel at any stage of the development process. Yes, your story will have a structure and your prose will have a vocabulary, but these aren't the things you should be thinking of. That's how you wind up adding to the pile of "publishable" but soulless material that we already have. I posted my own thoughts already here: >>18097577

>>18096980
I didn't like it and I don't like that you have so many spoilers included.

>>18098084
Once you pop

Fuck this hack so fucking much
>here's your new wildcards book bro, I know you were waiting for it
>we've been working on a prequel lately
>I bought a railroad last month
>here I am jumping naked on a trampoline
>soon bro, soon

>>18098448
He must be trolling on purpose. Bizarre he's actually productive unlike Rothfuss, yet refuses to work on what people want.

>>18098413
Caring about spoilers is for faggots, especially when they're as irrelevant as an unknown sister. You could literally spoil the entire book and it wouldn't matter because the plot isn't what makes it worth reading. Even deleting the twist in the last few pages wouldn't matter, since it was largely unrelated to the coming of age story and didn't actually resolve the overarching plot at all

>>18097718
This book is giving me permanent stiffy.

Bros I had a brilliant idea for a novel
>Life in a Middle Earth world, but where Sauron won

>>18098753
So industrial revolution Britain? Sorry to say, but it’s been done.

>>18098768
>Sorry to say, but it’s been done.
Yeah but not as good as I'm thinking

>there is a thread on the board behind you

Is Wheel of Time worth reading if my reaction to Way of Kings was an overwhelming "eh"?

>>18099554
No

>>18099554
The only thing that really puts it above Way of Kings is that because it was originally intended to be a trilogy the first book is fairly well paced with. But by the third book he realized it would take longer and he almost instantly falls into the familiar mire of spending 6 books setting up pins to be knocked down in the next 6 books.

>>18099554
It's a classic, it's worth reading if only to know what the hell people are talking about

>>18093861
>Infernal Eternal
is the name of a 2000 black metal album by the band Marduk, boasting the famous track "Panzer Division Marduk."

is Bakker even more red/blackpilled than we expected?

>>18097374
My favourite is Chickum.

>>18099654
>is Bakker even more red/blackpilled than we expected?
He's literally the opposite. He's a self described male feminist.

>>18099654
People don't seem to realize that much of what Bakker writes about are problems he considers to be very real, and very much wishes were not the case.
As >>18099692 mentions he considers himself a feminist, and all his interviews he comes off as your basic middle of the road liberal.

Just got off a binge of the Expanse book series.

While I wait for the last book, I'm trying to figure out what to jump to next. I dont think I'm in the mood for another big sci fi series, but I want to start another book series nonetheless.

Dont really care the genre, but can I get a recommendation for a book series (at least 3) with an entertaining core cast of characters, that isn't YA, and still takes itself seriously?

Sorry for the vague rec but most lists are solely focused on the genre.

>>18099700
Why can't other writers separate their personal politics from ruining the world building of their fantasy world?

>underdog protag gets a girl waaay out of his league
Please rec something with that subplot. I loved the Stardust movie, but hated the book. Not really looking for somethong similar to it, tho. Just something with that romantic subplot.

>>18099785
Soulship

I'm so sick of dishonest people, so many of you in this thread. You know who you are and what you did. You don't care about what's true and you're disgusing filth and you will get what you deserve.

>>18099782
I think for many fantasy writers world building means creating a world where the obstacles to their ideals are easily overcome or are already non-existent. There was a sentiment that I encountered a lot on Tumblr, back when I used it, that by doing this you were effectively doing for sociological matters what Scifi did by imagining mobile phones or videochat back in the 60's. If you are familiar with the concept of Hyperstition, it is sort of like that.

For Bakker his world is more an arena to struggle with various concepts and problems, rather than a realm where his personal desires are vindicated.

>>18099778
Have you treid the Shadowmarch series by Tad Williams? Top notch worldbuilding and an absolutely epic ending (looking at you GRRM you lazy fuck). Just make sure you keep track of all the various gods and their names in the different languages, that fucked me up when I initially skipped those parts.

Pfft nuffin personal kiddos thanks for buying every edition of the first two books in my trilogy and everything else I touch

>>18099809
>one other person reads soulship ITT

Are there any fantasy books that manage a grim Black Metal or Dungeon synth vibe as opposed to regular grimdark?

>>18100790
>Guys can you recommend me some x that's like y

>>18100811

>>18099554
Absolutely not.
At least Way of Kings has a somewhat original world, Wheel of Time has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

A friend suggested I read the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanders. Is it any good?

>>18101217
No.

>>18101217
Depends on what you are looking for anon, I would suggest to not expect too much, it is good for what it is, a lab important component of cosmere. More specifically, the mc is lacklustre, but the adjacent to the mc, kelsier is one of Sanderson's strongest characters, prose is ok, his concept of magic system takes forefront. Generally, his 2nd era is much well received,but to understand it you have to read the first.

>>18098095
>what about, you know, fun? I guess "fun" would be filed under "style" in your cataloging, but what can an author do to introduce "fun" into their style?
That doesn't make much sense. Brandon Sanderson is one of the bestselling fantasy authors alive, and his style is incredibly basic and simplistic. Same with GRRM, almost none of the fantasy writers working nowadays are notable prose stylists

>Nothing in this post is immediately useful to anyone trying to write a fantasy novel at any stage of the development process.
So plot, characters, and setting are 'completely useless?' Let alone basic Structure, which is one of the first things they teach you in writing classes (you know what a classic Three Act Structure is, right?) Style will be present one way or another; either you give a lot of time and effort into your prose, or you write in that really basic YA style that has infected modern fantasy since the self-publishing boom. Themes are the only thing on there that might be overlooked by a fantasy author, consciously or not.

>Yes, your story will have a structure and your prose will have a vocabulary, but these aren't the things you should be thinking of
Literally, if you are writing a book, out of the six things I mentioned above, at least three of them you have to give conscious thought to; the other four often get neglected (to the detriment of the book unfortunately but that's the way it is). Why should you not be thinking about structure or prose, huh? Structure is necessary for telling a good story in any genre or medium, prose is something that modern fantasy has clearly shown isn't readers' top concern, but having good prose may be all it takes to elevate a book from 'good' to 'great'

>That's how you wind up adding to the pile of "publishable" but soulless material that we already have.
What are you talking about? If anything, the books that aren't fully rounded-out are the 'publishable' but soulless material. Did you even read my first post?

I understand that these standards may seem too high to be applied or expected from fantasy literature, but that's just the problem. We need to stop publishing half-baked, slapdash, cash-grab books and start striving for genuine quality in our fantasy. We should demand it as readers, and (try) to provide it as writers.

>>18101217
It is a must read. In sophisticated circles, it is agreed to be a turning point in epic fantasy. However you will need to read at least some of Bjorksov, Wallis, and Fartman to appreciate what Sanderson is trying to do in Mistborn.

>>18101217
You'll get filtered if you don't have a good familiarity with the complete works (essays included) of Hemingway and Orwell

>>18092084
Read comedy chinkshit then

>>18101587
You really don't know what you're talking about, honestly. Good luck with your book amigo

>>18101589
>>18101624
Devilishly Redditian

Does a character like this exist?

Paladin/knight/swordsman
Highly charismatic but kind of an ass hole like an attractive son of a rich guy

>>18101892

>>18100327
I haven't heard of this. Thanks for the rec.

>>18093694
It isn't an either/or proposition. Nabakov says that a major writer combines all three, storyteller, teacher, and enchanter.

>>18097577
>>18097914
>Finally, and above all, a great writer is always a great enchanter, and it is here that we come to the really exciting part when we try to grasp the individual magic of his genius and to study the style, the imagery, the pattern of his novels or poems. - Nabby
The key words here are genius and magic. To me this means a writer's originality, their strength of vision

First Mieville I read and it was a major let down. The first 50 pages or so were good, but then it becomes a shitty CBS show with embarrassing characters and humor. I stopped around the half way mark.

My question: other than Lovecraft, are there any good books about squid cults?

>>18102086
Is this an edit?? The squiggly coming out of the R is misaligned.

>>18102108
first google search result. That's how it is

>>18102086
>grade A geekitude
Pass

>>18102217
Lol wah. I got the Kindle version because a friend told me Meiville was a smart writer. I should have known...

>>18101892
Andolin I guess from Stormlight Archives. Although hes a total bro, hes also kind of a cocky asshole since hes a master swordsman

>>18101892
Yeah that kind of character is literally all over the place. Have you never consoomed media before?

>>18102086
Mieville has cool unique ideas and creates pretty interesting worlds. But he can't create a plot to save his life.

>>18100039
>For Bakker his world is more an arena to struggle with various concepts and problems, rather than a realm where his personal desires are vindicated
holy based...

I tried to read a modern science fiction novel and it was even worse than I expected. There's actually a part where he explains how a character used a technology that allows people to cycle through "all the genders" and how they were initially persecuted by religious moralists. Why does everything have to be so fucking pozzed?

>>18102648
ALL of the genders?

>>18091606
Any sci-fi books about an intelligent sea-based alien race? Something like maybe beneath thick ice of Europa or something idk.

>>18102648
hamilton is pretty based though, at least his older shit was.

>>18096980
Don't read the other books in the series

>>18096980
are any of anthony ryans other series worth reading or is he a bit of a one hit wonder?

>>18103060
One hit wonder. His dragon series is better than the Blood Song sequels, but it still wasn't good.

Any fun books out lately? I've read literally nothing this year.
>>18103060
His short story (something swords?) is good
Dragon book bored me, became clear about halfway through the first one what the actual plot/villain setup was and I just didn't care.

>the guy from this thread who runs the goodreads group/posts a million reviews read The Raven Tower
>disliked it as much as me
Feel a bit vindicated by that, never been left that cold by a book before.

>>18102648
>>18102671
There're an infinite amount of genders because the human imagination is boundless.

>>18092084
There's loads of really good ones
The trick is to stop reading Xiaxia which is repetitive by design.

Way of Choices for instance is Wuxia and after a 200ish chapter first arc completely changes setting and even the type of story being told.
The Rebirth of the Malicious Empress of Military Lineage is fun and is complete in under 250 chapters.
And it wasn't for me but Lord of Mysteries is its own weird thing that doesn't fit into any repetitive plot structure.

>>18102307

>>18102108
You think some Indian """graphic designer""" getting paid $3 an hour in some programmer sweat shop gives a shit? This was probably done in MS Paint.

>>18102648
Have you ever read teh Hugow winnign novel "The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet" by Becky Chambers? The shittiest leftist pseudo progressive SJW woke shitfest pamphlet I have ever read. A literal pamphlet with no other intention than to spread SJW woke culture. One character was repeatedly described as "short" and "small". I didnt get that he wa ssupposed to be a dwarf until I was a third of the way into the book. All because the fucking author was too peecee and too woke and inclusive to ever use the word "dwarf" or "dwarfism".

>>18102806
Maybe the hyper intelligent squids from Adrien Tchaikovsky's Chíldren of Ruin, but they are really just mutated earth squids ... now that I think about it there is a definitive dearth of scifi books about sea-based alien races.

Would gas giant atmosphere-based alien race do too? Then I recommend "The Algebraist" by Iain M. Banks.

>>18103465
This actually won Hugo for best novel a few years ago.

>>18103517
every Hugo award after 2013 doesnt count anyway

>>18103500
>The Algebraist
Yeah thanks sounds interesting.
I was just thinking that a Europan life under all that ice would make an interesting story. No stars, no aspirations for space until maybe suddenly humans decide to explore the oceans of Europa and completely blow Europan's minds. Thought maybe someone might think that's interesting too and wrote a book about that.

>>18103537
The fact Bakker wasn't a finalist is absurd in itself.

>>18103465
see >>18100039

>>18103588
There is a story about smart, genetically modified sea monsters on Europa, "Sea Change, With Monsters" by Paul J McAuley, but it is a novella at best. 104KB as a .txt file on my HDD. "A Spy in Europa" by Alastair Reynolds also has at least one intelligent submarine monster that was created by humans, but it is only a short story or novella too.

>>18103643
God help us, wokeism has infected everything

>>18103669
different anon, there's some book i read a while ago that is about a person genetically modifying themselves to live amongst creatures that live in a gas giant's atmosphere. it was really interesting and i read it a while ago, might be YA, seems like it would fit the bill but i can't remember the title.

>>18103680
Soft science fiction has become social science fiction. Hard science fiction is still great, we got Greg Egan.

>>18103706
Might have been the Affronters in Iain M. Banks's book "Excession"

>>18103815
I was gonna suggest the Affront sections of that book. One of my all time favs of sci fi.

>>18094408
Mother of Learning was quality

>>18098753
Does a young 16 yr old girl have to inspire a revolution against Sauron decades into his rule, juggling the affection of two handsome hotties meanwhile?

Need a good standalone book to read. Currently taking a break from the stormlight archives and don’t want to start another series.

Any genre is fine, just shill me one of your fav books.

>>18104092
Legend by David Gemmell

>>18104092
Unsong

I'M LOOOOOVIINGGGG

>>18104092
The Sword of Kaigen. The story is as good as the title is bad.

>>18104092
I recently read Battlemage by Peter A. Flannery, kind of like Stormlight meets 40k but just okay. Goes from young farm boy to literal Grey Knight in about a 1000 pages with a climatic ending. Honestly wish there was a sequel since I liked the setting

>>18104358
Other way around actually.

Why is Dune the only decent Sci-fi epic? Seems like fantasy has plenty of epic series but sci-fi only has good standalone books.

>>18104092
Could Atlas or Bone Clocks by David Mitchell.

Cloud Atlas was more meaningful, Bone Clocks more fun

Just got done reading the Dark Tower series, cant say that it was good, but I did get hooked at some point and wanted to know how it continues. Stephen King really is the shlockmaster and I kinda regret giving him a chance

But now I need a new series, anyone can recommend something? I just read basic stuff so far, ASOIAF, LOTR, The First Law trilogy and now The Dark Tower. Would really like something that gets me hooked for the next couple of weeks

>>18099778
If you don't mind more sci fi, I rather enjoyed the Galaxy's Edge series (not the star wars one). Was a fun read, and I believe the kindle edition is free on prime atm

>>18104622
What exactly are you looking for?

>>18104555
Because Dune was a space fantasy.

>>18104675
Anymore like it?

>>18104092
Emphyrio

>>18104622
Red Riding Quartet

>>18104622
>>18104711

FYI: I've only read the first in the series. It was good but not great. The authorial voice is amazing (it's impossible to not read it in a British accent). Apparently, the first novel is the weakest of the series and it gets better when it starts tying in with the Yorkshire Ripper murders (1977 on).

BBC made a film trilogy based on it. I've only seen the first one (because I'm waiting to get my hands on the other books which are hard to find in print) and it was decent (the book was better).

(As I mentioned...the only reason I haven't read the rest of the series is I like physical books and sometimes wait prolonged periods before I'm able to find what I'm looking for in a used bookstore. If you're fine with reading off of a screen, you'll find them easily).

Books similar to Roadside Picnic?

>>18104106
>>18104213
>>18104358
>>18104466
>>18104562
>>18104693
Thanks anons, will check them all out.

>>18104711
>Red Riding Quartet
Absolutely based.

>>18104622
Stormlight Archives

This shit is so good why isn't this series shilled instead of all the shitty authors like Bakker and Sanderson. 200 pages in and I can't put it down.

>tfw missed the submission date for Goodman Game's sword and sorcery magazine
It's gonna be a couple months (maybe a year) before they publish another issue and submissions are open again; they said they got almost 500 submissions this time around

>>18105251
Because it won’t be finished ever. Author stopped writing because of health problems.

>>18097040
Lord Dunsany, every modern fantasy writer has aped off him at least once.

>>18091669
i like bakker but it's fanboying shit like this that turns people off authors

>>18105328
That says nothing about the quality of the current books. And she's working on the final book right now

>>18105415
I'm positive most people are just trolling at this point, does /lit/ unironically like Sanderson though?

>>18097096
>Tchaikovsky
the dude who wrote the insect series? god no, what the fuck are you thinking

>>18103755
Do you think Egan would ever allow his work to be adapted to film? I really hope not.

How important is the prose for a sci-fi novel? I've been posting some stuff in /wg/ but I'm primarily into writing sci-fi, seems like I'm putting too much effort into the wrong thing.

>>18105447
It falters in the 3rd-4th books. Lot of rising actions with little payoff. A lot is riding on the last book being good, if her health stays good long enough for her to ever finish it.

>>18105593
I prefer good prose in any genre, but with sci-fi I feel that a really novel story can outweigh the need.

well /sffg/, this is it. It's taken 3.5 years of work but I've finally given up

I wasn't meant to be a writer, just a cog

>>18105658
Don't give up. Keep writing for fun, at least. You never know.

>>18101892
so jaime lannister?

>>18102806
not a book but the album 01011001 by prog rock band ayreon

>>18105671
anon, I'm burned out, I have too much shit I don't want to be a part of going on in my life, I haven't met my writing goal in months, I haven't written literally anything in weeks, my quality is so terrible I'm ashamed of myself, and I can't remember the last time a story idea genuinely excited me

all I feel is emptiness inside that isn't going away, and that I think I've realized nobody is going to be able to help me with. I can't even vent about this because I just get ignored or brushed off

I don't want to live my life this way, but my only other option is to die. at the moment, it sounds like the better option, except I don't want to make my mom sad

>>18105723
>I haven't written literally anything in weeks
that's not so long in the scheme of things. i haven't written anything in years but i still think i'm going to write the next great fantasy series.

>>18105750
I put so much pressure on myself to be a writer but just can't manage what real writers can do in their sleep. being bad at something I care so much about is physically painful and its sucked as much joy out of coming up with stories as running out of ideas did

I still want to be a writer, but I'm not cut out for it. I'm not cut out to be anything other than Lowly Assembly Peon #234. I just can't get over it

>>18105723
Write about everything, write about that emptiness even! You're ashamed of yourself, so what? We all are. So many writers have felt what you're going through right now and each have belittled their work as well. Let your writing be filled with all that anger and dread you have of each waking moment because that's the kind of stuff people like to read.

>>18105778
Don't ever cut yourself off from doing the thing you like.

>>18105593
>How important is [...] prose
How important is each stroke of the artist's brush?

>read star wars ya novel focused on romance, right up my alley
>it's about two central characters who end up on opposite sides of the war
>become attached to them
>get about 40% through it, realize i won't be able to handle if it has a tragic ending or one of them dies
>read plot summary on wikipedia, decide to drop the book even though it has a happy ending
I've come to terms with the fact that I'm an extremely sentimental person who can't handle strong emotions. I wasn't like this when I was younger and I don't know when the change occurred.

why is there so much phallic symbolism in tolkien's lord of the rings? is it intentional?

>>18105868
Go back to dead Freud

How often do you include extra details by dialogue? I want to imply things but it leaves my paragraphs pretty barren,

>>18105870
Only by showing your penis can you banish his ghost back to the pit it flew out from.

>>18105883
Only if they're details important to the characters speaking. Like in real life, if you met anyone speaking in long drawn out details about everything you'd assume they're an autismo.

>>18105904
It's just a casual conversation I want to introduce the protagonist and a main character with. Filling details in through narration and stating shit as so makes me feel like I'm babying the audience and increasing the word count for its sake.

>>18105904
>>18105936
In regards to character relationships I mean. Exposition is what a book drives on after all.

>>18105936
>>18105957
see chekov's gun.

>>18105994
Aight, I'll stick with it then.

>>18105883
Depends on your audience. Lots of adult readers want all of the exposition to be in dialogue and all of the narrative to be internal struggle. Kids like exposition to come in the narrative and be referenced/reinforced in the dialogue. Please make sure you are posting in /wg/ next time when you're not specifically asking about SFF.

>>18106024
My bad, didn't see it.

i am writing modern fantasy with elements of sci-fi tho

*blocks your path*

>>18105658
Anon, the mere fact that you even bother to write because it's something you enjoy should be proof enough to you that you are/can be a writer.

I used to be told in school that I was a very talented writer. Here we are over a decade later and I've had no real impulse or desire to write anything.

You are a writer. Keep doing it if it makes you happy.

>>18105658
It took you 3.5 years to realize that? Are you slow?

>>18106074
Don’t let him waste his years on it. It’s better that he realize it now.

>>18105289
How could you miss it?

>>18106123
People like you are to be ignored. Not heeded.

>>18106148
Honestly, I want someone to tell me if I’m wasting my time in an pursuit, so I can focus on another. No need to bang my head on a wall.

>>18106148
People like you, who offer nothing but needlessly optimism just so others won't get hurt is detrimental to society.

>>18091795
Try anything by Sara Douglass and Raymond E Feist. Same sort of epic fantasy

>>18106168
>Raymond E Feist
Him? Really?

>>18092941
Can't believe you got filtered by Cultivation

>>18093918
It’s a terrible book all around. Not just in audiobook format.

>>18094783
As it should be, I want morally complex characters.

>>18094940
Iron Prince is a bit edgy and rough around the edges but give it a chance.

>>18106148
What do you gain by wasting your years on something you’re not good at.

New thread.

>>18106200

>>18103669
>>18103706
>>18103815
>>18105715
Thanks

>>18105690
less brooding

>>18106306
Jon snow?

>>18105658
There are ways to git gud at writing

>>18106202
That’s an /a/ thread.

Here’s the new thread >>18106553

>>18106797
Did you seriously make a second thread?