/lit/ - Literature

chaucer

Aquinas

THE FACT THAT THE GREATEST LITERATURE HAS BEEN CREATED IN CHRISTENDOM, BY CHRISTIANS, WITH CHRISTIAN SUBSTANCE, MAKES YOUR STATEMENT IDIOTIC.

>>18091467
I can’t think of any. Which are these?

>>18091456
God no.

>>18091452
He was a humanist, i.e. a sly atheist

>>18091467
Cope more

>>18091470


YOU ARE BEING DISINGENUOUS, THEREFORE YOU DO NOT DESERVE AN ANSWER; JUST STOP POSTING.

>>18091442
Check the pinned thread

>>18091600
This is more of a literary thread than a religious one. The point isn’t Christianity as such but the fact that the Christian perspective tends to mar literature.

>>18091467
Based tripfag

>>18091616
Quite the opposite. You have Dante and Shakespeare. Baudelaire was also shaped by Christianity.

>>18091442
The Bible

>>18091470
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

>>18091629
Dante was more hermetic than surface level readers give him credit for. His religion was philosophy more than anything. Shakespeare is absolutely not Christian. And Baudelaire is fine but not truly great. It’s not “quite the opposite”. That’s one of the biggest copes of this board.

>>18091442
Yeah right Eggman stop seething and go back to looking for the chaos emeralds

>>18091660
>Dante was more hermetic than surface level readers give him credit for.
You're a pleb.
>Shakespeare is absolutely not Christian.
Shakespeare was Catholic
>It’s not “quite the opposite”. That’s one of the biggest copes of this board.
Dante and Shakespeare are the GOATs and they were Christians. Cope more. Gaytheists haven't produced a single poetic soul worth a shit. Nothing that could be considered great.

What is Trigun?

>>18091442
well, Don Quijote is essentially anti christian. Just like best soviet movies were essentially anti soviet.

>>18091660
>And Baudelaire is fine but not truly great.
Not only is your taste shit, you're also ignorant of literary history.

>>18091452
who?
>>18091456
fetish faggot
>>18091633
mature, ancient shit on yeast

>>18091660
>Dante was more hermetic than surface level readers give him credit for. His religion was philosophy more than anything.

Someone didn't read all the way to Paradiso.

>>18091442
HELLO DEAR READER

Welcome to the rest of the thread. It will consist of a drama in two parts. In the first part one anon will suggest a great work by a Christian author, in the second part a second poster, who may as well be the first for both are anonymous, will go 'nuh uh.' This will repeat until the thread expires.

>>18091442
Even if the work itself isn't explicitly Christian, Biblical allegories has always held a strong tradition in Western literature.

>>18091719
>well, Don Quijote is essentially anti christian.
Not at all, midwit. Don Quixote was the only real human being in an era lorded over by limp-dicked humanists and hedonists.

>>18091764
Anon: Behold! A book that I would recommend!
It's a larger volume and the spine is bent.
The title you may've guessed it
It's Paradise Lost! Now try to best it!

if you aren't italian you can't enjoy the comedia.

>>18091813
I'm not Italian and I enjoyed it.

Have a (you) for the bait you goalpost moving midwit.

>>18091623
that guy is an actual pedo btw

>>18092090
proof?

>>18091452
>>18091456
>>18091633
>>18091634
>>18091778
Crypto-atheists. If you didn't believe in God back then, you'd be burned at the stake. Every intellectual was by definition atheist, but of course they had to obscure the atheist manifestos in their work to pass the censor, which they can only be interpreted properly now because we successfully infiltrated, made science, and have taken power.

>>18092090
"That guy" is just some name that floats about my moniter, I don't really care. Lol.

>>18092102
Wake up.

>>18091676
>Shakespeare was Catholic
I wish this was bait

>>18092102
>Every intellectual was by definition atheist, but of course they had to obscure the atheist manifestos in their work to pass the censor, which they can only be interpreted properly now because we successfully infiltrated, made science, and have taken power.

Hello, this is one of the smartest men to live in the 20th Century, but he loves Jesus Christ with all his heart.

Perhaps you should read him some time. Actually, everyone should read him. His name is Joseph Ratzinger, though these days he goes by Benedict.

>>18091442
The Bible is the greatest book ever written. I say this as a lover of literature and Christ but not as a “Christian.” The Catholic Church is the antichrist, a Christian empire. Christ is antithetical to empire as is demonstrated in the Bible. But the Bible, containing Everything within it, accounts for Christian empire through the concept of the antichrist. The Antichrist being someone claiming to be Christ’s true heir but instead institutes a new Rome. Many “tradcaths” think that would be “based,” this is because they don’t read the Bible outside of when they use a verse as a political bludgeon. They side with satan.

>>18092217
give a tl;dr about his views on Jesus, the Church, and the world.

>>18092217
Sorry, I don't consider anything that challenges my views.

>>18092304
based and basepilled

>>18091442
Dante, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, etc.

>>18092304
You are in the right place here, pal.

>>18091467
No the greatest literature is the Quran

>>18092080
Congrats on not actually giving him the you.

>>18092217
I've been wanting to give him a chance because he seems very coherent. What would be a good but simple introduction to his many works?

>>18092201
Read his biographies and perhaps try reading his plays and his poems.

>>18092862
His Jesus of Nazareth series manages to be very easy to read while unassumingly sophisticated in the theological considerations of the Jesus stories. I've only read the first book but it was very apparent to me I would need to read it again and really study it, so I didn't move on to the second volume when I was done since I was busy. But it was a very nice book regardless. I especially enjoyed his exploration of Jesus in the temple, the temple also being the seat of God in each man, and the need for each man to expel the money-changers from the temple (purify their soul) before Jesus can properly take his seat there. I may not have re-interpreted that exactly correctly but it is the feeling I remember from reading it when I did.

>>18092102
>Every intellectual was by definition atheist, but of course they had to obscure the atheist manifestos in their work to pass the censor, which they can only be interpreted properly now because we successfully infiltrated, made science, and have taken power.
literal WE WUZZING tier

>>18091788
What is it with you absolute retards having no clue what humanism means?

>>18093269
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.

On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.

I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.

At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.

Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.

But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.

Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.

Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.

>>18093540
>>18092102
Apparently you yourself does not know what humanism is and its development in history. Humanism is so a broad term that it can be traced back to Classical period. Petrarch is considered the precursor humanist and even so he writes about his own positive inclination toward Christianity, read his Canzoniere. Check the renaissance humanists, an even more strong humanistic period, filled with Christian humanists like Mirandola, Ficino, Cusanus, Bessarion, Erasmus, More and we can stretch it into the more modern ones like Montaigne, Pascal and basically all artists and poets of the Spanish Siglo d’Oro. All the ones mentioned positioned favorably toward Christianity, were christians and imbued their writings with it (both christian spirit and their own avowal as christians).
You should read more.

>>18092937
Shut the fuck up you fucking idiot

>>18093648
My point exactly. I'm not the edgy fedora tipper. I just wonder what exactly these people have against the study of Greco-Roman literature and philosophy.

>>18093688
What point? Who is against the study of Greco-Roman humanities and sciences in general? Make it clear at least.

>>18093724
The ones crying about the woes of humanism, which I assume are conflating the humanism of the early medieval period and the renaissance with the modern, atheistic so-called humanism of Dawkins (which has nothing to do with the former).

>>18091660
>>18092201
>>18093659
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Shakespeare%27s_last_will_and_testament
You people are really miserable holy shit

>>18093747
As I said humanism is too ample and obviously was constituted by secularists, specially in the scientific area of the Renaissance period onwards. This humanism was present in the Classical and Hellenistic period with Stoicism, Epicureanism, later with a particular Roman statism. Christians have never refrained from acknowledging what is true and useful in the productions of this ilk just like they knew how pagan intellectualism expressed truths.

>>18091467
The New Testament is mediocre.

>>18093866
Wrong.

>>18092937
>>18093782
The English reformation occurred about a century before Shakespeare. Elizabethan England was very anti-catholic, this is basic British history.

>>18094595
We have evidences that Shakespeare was at least sympathetic to Catholicism. Anyhow, the thread claimed Christianity in general, it could have no better refutation than Shakespeare himself.

>>18094595
>elizabethean england was protestant
>therefore shakespeare was a nihilist

>>18091442
Define literature.

>>18091660
>unironically arguing the Divine Comedy is not Christian
what level of dishonesty is this anon even operating on

>>18094769
>We have evidences that Shakespeare was at least sympathetic to Catholicism.
Poast evidence
>>18095200
I wasn’t implying that. I’m saying he was Protestant not catholic.

>>18091442
>Christian meta-physics isn’t true because I believe in it.
aw yiss

>>18095568
>post evidence
Joseph Pearce’s biography of the man.

>>18095614
>he still thinks Shakspeare wrote the plays
wew lad
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OpFXD07_NYg

>>18091442
Even atheists have to routinely give it up to Paradise Lost, Shakespeare (catholic), and Inferno. Christianity is literary as fuck

>>18091442
Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn and Milton and Baudelaire and Shakespeare and Dante and this is bait isn’t it

>>18095499
the level of your average anti-christian

>>18096553
>shakespeare wasn't catholic
>actually shakespeare did not even write the plays

>>18091442
Despite this being entirely false, who needs literature when the greatest artist was a Christian?

What about the fantasy series with wizards and elves and the not so subtle message that the armies of Mordor are the pitiless Turks menacing Catholic Europe, especially since the author said the lands of Middle Earth is simply Europe in the distant past and the Shire is where future England would be?

>>18096799
holy fucking based

>>18091467
Everyone laughs at you when you type in all caps mate. It projects insecurity

>>18093079
This. Read the Jesus of Nazareth books, they're all great.

>>18096778
He definitely wasn’t catholic. Elizabethan society was ardently Protestant at the time. You’re just projecting crypto Catholicism on figures cuz you’re consumed by “tradcath” ideology it appears. And yea Shakspeare didn’t write the plays,Oxford did, but I don’t feel like getting into the authorship question rn lol

>>18091442

Either you're being sarcastic or a complete moron by making this statement by the fact that you posted a photo of Gene Wolfe, a Catholic who was praised as one of the greatest authors of his genre by some of his contemporaries and the succeeding generation after him in Neil Gaiman and George R. Martin.

>>18091467
Christians are so cringe

>>18091508
Ignores the fact that many of the original Humanists were Christians. Ignoramus.

>>18091470
Lazy ass.

>>18091660
You're such a Sophist. Its clear that you haven't really studied the Inferno properly.

>>18091744
Dumbass.
>>18091764
Meta cringe.

>>18092304
Then stay inside your rabbit hole and cope.

>>18092832
Disgusting.

>>18098319
Then do us a favor and refute the points made in a whole book showing his affinities with Catholicism. And no, I'm not Catholic.

>>18096799
Fun fact: in East and Southeast Asia, Bach is sometimes referred to as "The Fifth Evangelist," because musicians and composers who perform his works have an unusual tendency to convert to Christianity.

>>18098365
Tell me the book’s main pieces of evidence for his Catholicism

>>18093782
they really just let anyone write english back in the day didn't they?

>>18096799

>>18096553
yes, the theory proposed by a one Mr. Looney is the correct one.

>>18096553
wait, Oxford is a Christian too. He was also sympathetic to Catholicism.

>>18098350

Then why are you even in this thread, Anon? Come on, tell us what your beliefs are and we'll roast you thrice as hard. Don't you pussy out on us.

>>18091633
based

>>18091442
agilus was a hierodule

>>18091442

kant

>>18093540
being a cuck, right?

>>18098919
He was a part of the ardently Protestant Elizabethan aristocracy, again this is basic English history.

>>18091633
Based

>>18099609
so he was a christian and a writer?

roll

>>18098891
Come on, that sounds cool.

>>18098891
no standardised spelling

>>18091442
Really?

There’s lots

> The divine comedy
> Paradise lost
> crime and punishment
> Brother’s Karamazov
> Jane Eyre
> The monk by Matthew Lewis
> The private memories and confessions of a justified sinner
> the faerie queene (one of most Christian English poems besides Paradise lost)
> Jerusalem Delivered Torquato Tasso
> The pilgrim’s progress
> Confessions and city of god by Saint Augustine

>>18091660


I’m not sure what qualifies as “Christian.” Shakespeare does mention the bible a lot, but he also mentions lots of Greek mythology. However, Shakespeare made more references to the bible than any other Elizabethan playwright.

> The most frequently repeated figure on the books of the Bible to which Shakespeare refers is 42 books--eighteen from each of the Testaments and the remaining from the Apocrypha. Shakespeare's writing contains more references to the Bible than the plays of any other Elizabethan playwright. A conservative tally of the total number of biblical references is 1200, a figure that I think could be doubled.

> Numerically the book with the most references is the book of Psalms, and usually Shakespeare refers to this book as it appears in the Anglican Prayer Book. Other biblical books that are high in the number of references are Genesis, Matthew, and Job. The Bible story that appears most often--more than 25 times--is the story of Cain and Abel. There are so many references to the opening chapters of Genesis in Shakespeare's plays that scholars make comments to the effect that Shakespeare must have had these chapters nearly memorized. Shakespeare's allusions are sometimes generalized, as for example to characters in the Bible, but often the parallels are linguistic and specific, requiring a specialist's knowledge.

>>18101228
I knew Spenser was christian but didnt know the faery queen had anything to do with it. Now I want to read it more.

>>18101054
He was Protestant which at that time also meant anti catholic.

>>18101701
so. . .Christian?

>>18091633
based

>>18091442
Cite 1 (one) at*eist work that is considered great literature.

>>18101717
Yes obviously, that was never my point of contention.