/lit/ - Literature

Books like this?

>>18081033
How "like?" I don't really know of much else recent that's like it, but you might want to go and read some of the older Arthurian stuff that it's based on.

>>18081051
Yeah I have those.

>7 months before the last book of The Expanse
It's going to be shit but i need to know how it ends...

>>18080949
>>18081005
Damn it would be cool if we had enough people to do a read-along. I'm finishing up Lonesome Dove today, and am probably going to start Shadow and Claw tomorrow or on Friday

>>18081229
Read-alongs for BOTNS would be kind of retarded since so many people here have already read it and you'd mostly have people saying "you'll get that part when you've finished the rest of it" for any points of discussion. Better to finish it, then make your posts.

Any good book where you discover the new world with the main character. The unlikely hero yada yada. Hate to be throw into some main character whos in the middle of things.

Narnia ->normal kids finds new world in closet.
Lord of the rings -> hobbit lives in peaceful village, throw out in world he doesnt know
Harry Potter -> normal kid get letter from hogwartz and goes into new world

HOW
I HATE
THIS THREAD

Finished another book and I'm going to take a week or two as a break, I just don't feel like reading anything now.

>>18080536
>The only Cook novel I've ever read is Swordbearer.
It's almost a The Black Company prototype, minus the company part.

>>18081022
What happend to the last 3 discords?

>>18081423
1st one: still going, but there was an exodus
2nd one: dead
3rd one: dead
4th one: invite only

The Raven Tower - Ann Leckie (2019)
I have to wonder if this novel was written as a dare or as an experiment in writing, as I don't see why else someone would do so. This is a second person story told from the perspective of a rock, yes, a literal rock. That rock is sentient, but even so, it's quite the departure from standard storytelling, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, as with anything. Aside from its gimmick I have to wonder why it was even written. For me there seemed to be little other purpose other than to showcase this narrative style. Nothing else really seemed to matter that much by comparison. The plot, characters, setting, and everything else could be described as perfunctory. They served their purpose well enough, though none of it is noteworthy in any way, for better and worse. If there were a second book, which it doesn't seem there will be, I wouldn't read it. As for how this book concludes, if you generally have problems with how books conclude, then I think you'll have a problem with how this one does as well. In conclusion, consider aeos's succinct review: "Well that happened." Yes, yes it did, but did it need to?
Rating: 2.5/5

>>18081443
How do I gain access and which one is which? I only know of three.

>>18081320
codex alera
wheel of time

>start Iron Prince
>get to ch.10
>only 13%
Why is this such a big book

Quick reminder for all newcomers that the Ultimate Colossal Science Fiction and Fantasy Collection torrent is up and active:

>>>/t/1023504

>>18081991
>No 2010s
Hurry up

>>18082076
there's nothing worth archiving

>>18082123
this

>>18082123
count to a trillion?

Reading the first law trilogy atm, second book is pretty great so far tbqhf

>>18082390
Did you know that kobo is an anagram for book? The more you know!

>>18082431

I didn't, but that's a neat factoid

>>18082123
retard

>>18082460
feel free to point out specific cases where he is incorrect in order to prove your point.
or i guess you could call him a retard again that seemed to really get his goat.

>>18081022
Does anyone have the new Awaken Online book? Apparently you can get early copies on Patreon or something.

>>18082484
SFF isn't any worse today compared to the past. Actually good books were always rare. You can only think the past was great if you don't look at publication dates and ignore all the godawful trash that was rightfully forgotten.
That aside there's some good books released in the 2010s.

>>18081443
>invite only
all discords are invite only. that's how discord works.

>>18081458
here is your invite: https://discord.com/invite/KWPCM7m

>>18082543
>only inanities
why not mention said books?

>>18082543
>good books were always rare
rare, not impossible to find

>>18082668
Because you're a retard and I'm not going to bother to write a novel to disprove your idiotic idea.

>>18082606
>all discords are invite only
No, I mean have to be personally invited, it isn't publicly available and they are once use only.

>>18081452
>look, Ann, this rock thing is, uh, real interesting as a gimmick, but as your editor I really feel-
STET!

>>18082787
i was asking for a list friendo, here ill start one (post 2010 readable books):
a dance with dragons
bakker's aspect emperor

Any good fantasy novels released recently aka in the last few years?

>>18082892
The Unholy Consult sadly.

>>18082892
Gideon the Ninth (very meme-y, science fantasy), the new First Law trilogy.

>>18081022
Does anyone have the link for the discord?

>>18083266
>Gideon the ninth

The science-fantasy novel about macabre lesbian necromancers with Gothic aesthetics? Is that series any good or is it just Woketard SJW preaching with an escapist skin?

>>18083320
With that attitude how are you able to enjoy anything?

>>18083282
read the thread
>>18082606

>>18083320
>Is that series any good
I didn't like the second novel

> is it just Woketard SJW preaching with an escapist skin?
I have no idea man, for me it was a fun novel about retarded teens in magic camp. YMMV

>>18082849

all post 2010, all good:

Void Star
Embassytown
New York 2140
Aurora
Ancillary series (including Provenance)
The Goblin Emperor

I had the idea of using one of those GPT-3 services to quickly generate a story, so that I could post it to RR and maybe make some bux while I work my "real" stuff. I don't plan on sticking with this particular story for this project, necessarily, but if you saw this chapter on royalroad, would you think it was "fishy?" As in, would you be able to tell that there wasn't (just) a human at the wheel? I'm editing the AI's responses fairly lightly, and there's a little jumpiness and weird logic and shit prose, but I'm only looking to score par for the course.

https://pastebin.com/8agYjjsp

Suck my cock

>>18083929
If that's on par for royal road I can only imagine how bad it gets

>>18082484
The Old Axolotl

>>18084152
Welcome to the trapped in the dinner plate club

>>18084449
The publisher is run by idiots. Spends capital to ruin a previously fine cover then drops a truly unique fantasy series.

Could I reasonably write SFF if I only like Gene Wolfe, Tolkien, Pynchon, Mark Lawrence, Edmund Spenser, and Cormac McCarthy as writers?

I read GRRM as a teen but came to dislike his style, too. But that’s about as much SFF I’ve read.

>>18084613
You don't have to like anyone to be a good writer. What a retard question.

>>18084642
You can’t read what I implied? Sorry, maybe I haven’t slept enough. I meant should I write SFF if I’m not a huge fan of most SFF writers, and don’t consoom a tonne of it? I.e. can someone write from outside the genre, or will fans get annoyed?

>>18084672
You won't be able to write hard science fiction but otherwise you're fine.

>>18084675
Alright thanks. Maybe I’ll read around more and try to see if it’s for me. Picking up Asimov’s Foundation as we speak.

Has anyone read this? I loved it in its original language but it doesn't seem to be translated much outside of latin Europe.

It won prizes, and a video game was in the works, and a comics etc.
A group of elite people try to 'swim' against the flow of the wind and reach its origin, which has never been done in this world.

>>18084672
If you worry about fans that much then don't write at all.

>>18084613
>>18084672
You will never write a book

>>18081033
The Book of Knights by Yves Meynard

To the anon that was complaining about the lack of a good database for sff, would you be interested in setting one up? While a comprehensive db is years of work a selection of sffg meme books is quite achievable

>>18082606
That server looks idiotic

>>18084781
I’ve already written novellas. I imagine it’s similar whilst grander and keeping more coherence. Thanks for the encouragement though.

>>18084777
I just got told once by a friend “don’t write this genre unless you KNOW IT” — he’s a drug addict punk anarchist though so I don’t always listen to him. I’m not worried about fans at all.

>>18085006
>I’m not worried about fans at all
Good. Show something of yours. Don't be shy

>>18085025
Password is “eschaton”

https://cryptopaste.org/WbWOARb3

>>18081033
Mask of the Sorcerer.
Like the wizard knight, it is a coming of age story. It is very rooted in egyptian myth which the book lays on very thick without spoonfeeding you explanations of it (similar to how the wizard knight draws on the arthurian legend and drops it on you to figure out). I don't know how to describe the character writing trick that makes gene wolfe's books so unique, but Darrell has a fair bit of it as well.

>>18085274
>>18084787
Thanks Anons. I’ll look into it. I’ve saved them as to read; re-reading WK for now but annoyed by Yves’ intro.

>>18081022
I'm thinking of getting into WH40K properly. Where do I start? I'm not expecting Anna Karenina, but compared to Heinlein, Asimov and the such, are they too trashy? Aren't they at least fun adventure novels like Monte Cristo and the such? I tried getting into them as the Horus Heresy was coming out but nobody would play with me and I dropped it.

>>18085293
Don't.

>>18085293
>black library books
Anon, if you want to read poorly-written trash go ahead. No one will stop you. But a mind can only think as far as the horizon you set it with literary STUFF

>>18085298
Rise of Nagash (not WH40K specifically, but since you're bring up black library) was probably better written than most recent fantasy, and it gets points for free by knowing what it is and sticking to what made it good, instead of taking trash writing and passing it off as an epic.

>>18085306
What fantasy books are even considered “epic”? I actually am researching epic poetry atm for uni so it’d be nice if you’d let me know what is passed off as “epic” in contemporary fiction, whatever the genre...

>>18085313
Bakker's.

>>18085320
You’re right about that being bad writing passed off as something it isn’t. I wouldn’t call that an epic but I’ve only flicked through the first book.

What do we think of his book collection?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vlFtJDdII34&t=180

>>18085428
Reddit: The Collection

>>18085313
Malazan I'd say, you got your armies, gods, magic, flying mountains, and world ending conflicts
Probably also Wheel of Time towards the end

>>18085428
I'm so jealous of american book covers. I swear we have the worst ones ever made in France.

>>18084700
I've been meaning to read this for a long time.
I'll get it once i'm finished with Dune and Bakker

Redpill me on Bakker.

>>18085458
Nigga just buy the good looking covers.

>>18085470
r/atheism with extra edge.

>>18085470
Idk but Greg Sadler says it’s a slog.

>>18085476
Just look at that motherfucker.

>>18085313
>it’d be nice if you’d let me know what is passed off as “epic” in contemporary fiction, whatever the genre...
All the ones I don't like, obviously.

>>18085484
Pretty sure there's nothing in the book like this happening...

>>18085458
I have these covers, which I thought looked good at the time.
Upon reflection, they are pretty shit.

>>18085599
I got this one, wasn't too bad. I liked that the worm was obscured at least

>>18081320
Book of the new sun, Prince of nothing series

(yes I know these are the /sffg/ meme series but they're good fuck you)

>>18085599
>>18085744
check it out, mine is now a movie!

>>18082488
litrpg is invariably trash
cultivation can be okayish

>>18085428
No Gene Wolfe? wtf is he?

Rand al'Thor is a surprisingly relatable protagonist.
Before i read the series i though he was going to be a confident giga chad and he is still tall and good looking but his personality was quite realistic for a normal village boy forced into gaining power he didn't want. He obviously evolves from this later on but it feels earned.

>>18085922
One of the highlights of the series is his gradual descent into complete insanity. Hallucinations, paranoia, manic episodes and all.

Can we talk about Tolkien's prose for a little bit? I posted this on a Silmarillion thread but that's been archived/forgotten. I'm currently rereading LOTR and the Entmoot is about to happen (so I'm more or less in the beginning of the Two Towers). Even though I still like the books as much (or perhaps more) than when I was a kid and teenager, there's somethink wonky or odd about Tolkien's prose at certain points. It goes from beautiful to unclear in a matter of paragraphs, there seems to be some great inconsistency at work here. Do you know any article/essay/paper/piece of scholarship that discusses this aspect of LOTR?

>>18085934
By far the best part about reading Wheel of Time. The descent into madness happens so slowly that Jordan said he was surprised by the amount of fans that still think Rand is sane late in the series.

>>18081078
Is it worth getting into?

>>18085997
Yeah i think so. The writing isn't phenomenal, but it's a neat story with a semi realistic view of the future of the solar system, with a plot that goes from a detective story to something more grand and epic. The second trilogy has some awful chapters in it, but overall i like it.
Or you can just watch the tv show

>>18086028
That was going to be my second question, whether because the series isn't finished whether the show is done. Been burned before with GOT so once bitten twice shy

>>18086085
The TV series imrpoves some aspect while shitting up others. For example Naomi in the books is meant to be a qt hapa gf, meanwhile in the show.

>>18085274
Seconding this. Mask of the Sorcerer is excellent

Does anyone have any recs for a book with a heavy romance subplot or main plot, but from a male pov?

Those female protagonist urban fantasy series were always my guilty pleasure and after reading some haremlit I realized that the romance is why I like them so much.

>>18086201
>haremlit
wtf is this

>>18086201
The Curse of Chalion.

>>18086201
It's not Male POV, but if you want some good fantasy romance/erotica, then read Kushiel's Dart.

>>18086201
Overworld Chronicles

Is this dude based or not?

>>18085286
I don't have the edition with his intro. What does he say?

I haven't heard anyone talk about him, but is
Harry Turtledove actually any good? Dude seems prolific as fuck when it comes to alternate history.

>>18086296
>that description
so what he's trying to dance around is this turns into softcore porn, right?

>>18085428
The fact that he has several copies of WoT proudly on display and just a single, neglected copy of Shadow and Claw near the bottom is really depressing for some reason

>>18081452
Are there any good sci-fi or fantasy novels written by a woman? Any at all?

>>18084820
http://www.isfdb.org/
http://sf-encyclopedia.uk/
various others

>>18086737
Not if you pre-disqualify them all, no.

>This is what boomers awarded Hugo for

Maybe current crop of niggerfaggots isn't that bad after all

>>18086085
To complete >>18086130
Casting wise, the show is a mixed bag. You have great choices like Thomas Jane as a noir detective on a space station or that guy who plays a psychopath who wants to be a good guy, and on the other hand you have a few fails, mostly because you cant easily find a 2 meters 100 kilos female maori or a shitload of giga lanklets to play belters
Plotwise, the show is some kind of director's cut for the authors, at least 2 antagonists go from boring to interesting, well written characters and the worst book is made slightly better

>10 pages later

make it stop

>>18086766
>and on the other hand you have a few fails, mostly because you cant easily find a 2 meters 100 kilos female maori
I think they did as well as they could, but she didn't get fit for the role. Actress was too chubby.

>>18086758
That was your cue to give me some recommendations you simp

>>18085428
>One Piece (manga)
>Misc books (Sufficiently Advanced Magic, The Wolf of Oren-Yard, The Ruin of Kings, Old Man's War, etc)
>first three Malazan books
>Fifth Season and The Two Swords
>Upon A Burning Throne
>first three books in The Assassin's Apprentice series
>IT and The Dark Tower series
>one single Guy Gavriel Kay book
>Piranesi by Suzanna Clarke
>a shit ton of Brando Sando books
>A Rage of Dragons and some other books by Evan Winters
>The Poppy War trilogy by RF Kuang
>some assorted Discworld books
>a shit ton of Dresden Files books
>two Power Mage books
>The Riyria Revelations trilogy
>some The Witcher books
>Gideon the Ninth
>some Joe Abercrombie Books
>Jade City and Jade War
>Kings of the Wyld and the sequel
>Six of Crows duology
>two small Pat Rothfuss books
>the entire Eragon book series in hardcover
>the entire Sherlock Holmes series
>Scythe
>Axiom's End by Lindsey \canceled\ Ellis
>that Barnes and Nobel edition of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
>The Martian by Andy Weir
>Malice by John Gywne
>almost all the Game of Thrones books
>Dune
>all three His Dark Materials books
>some Tolkien books, including The Children of Hurin and some Middle-Earth atlases
>the Red Rising trilogy
>all seven Harry Potter books
>some more copies of the Old Man's War series
>Neuromancer and some other books by William Gibson
>Snow Crash by Stephenson
>the Murderbot series
>One World Kill
>The Three-Body Problem
>another copy of Game of Thrones
>the entire A Darker Shade of Magic series
>Johnathan Strange and Mr Norrell
>all of the Expanse books
>Lightbringer
>several RA Salvatore books
>City of Brass
>some books by that Durfee motherfucker
>more misc books (Raymond D Feist, another GGK, Mark Lawrence)
>The Foundation Trilogy by Asimov
>some Larry Niven
>more misc books (Stephen King, Garth Nix, Marion Zimmer Bradly)
>some Kurt Vonnegut books
>Fahrenheit 451
>some Murakami books
>Here There Be Dragons
>more Stephen King
>some more assorted books
>John Carter of Mars pulps (...based???)
>some Heinlein books
>a shit ton of those 70s-80s classic sci-fi books
>more Wheel of Time books
>some Edgar Allen Poe
>more Heinlein
>fucking MORE Wheel of Time
>Sword of Shannarah
>more His Dark Materials
>more Jim Butcher books
>more Brandon Sanderson books
>a single copy of Shadow and Claw (that he doesn't even mention btw)
>Contact by Carl Sagan
>some Tad Williams Books
>more Asimov books

Thoughts on Reynolds?

>>18085922
>>18085962
>Want to reread to experience Rand's journey again
>remember how infuriated I was in the later books in basically every Egwene scene (post-Wise Ones)
>lose any will to reread
I don't suppose anyone has made a custom epub with all Egwene chapters removed?

>>18087040
Frustrating, books are always too long, he frequently makes incorrect plotting or character choices, too many generic strong female leads, very hit or miss in general.
I want to like his books, but he makes it very difficult to do so.

>>18086737
read some le guin dipshit

The jump in writing quality between Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates is pretty big. Like half the reason Gardens is called complicated is because the sentences are straight up wonky as fuck. I just finished book 1 of DG and it was so much more enjoyable that it's insane to comprehend

>>18086881
This is exactly like my /sffg/ chart recommendations!

If Gene Wolfe is SFF's Melville, and Ursula K LeGuin is SFF's Virginia Woolf, who is SFF's Faulkner? Shakespeare? Joyce???

Chinese novels are fun and more interesting than what is being written in the west today. Gender issues? Sexism? Racism? Who cares. Give me people flying on swords and slaying world devouring beasts. Give me devils who refine the heavens. Give me a lonely hero who slays the evil emperor of heaven with his dao-sword.

Who is the greatest MILF in fantasy? Character not author (since we all know who that is), asking for a friend.

Serious question: is Bakker a meme or not? I honestly can’t tell

>>18087365
The milf in trysmoon saga, who ends up fucking the mc that both her and her daughter thirsted after.

>>18087365
esmenet

aka

esemenlap

>>18085313
malazan bakker lotr

>>18085293
legion is genuinely good

>>18081022
Are there any novels or epics that have a build up in a Final Fantasy-esque kind of way? Like it starts off like "we gotta get this package to the innkeeper lol" to "God. Must. Die."

>>18087453
BOTNS? I feel like a lot of books are like this but maybe I’m misinterpreting

>>18087453
bakker
sandersoy
lord of the rings
btw stop being a nazi

>>18085293
A lot are hit or miss but they typically just boil down to some kind of flavoring of generic military scifi. Gaunts Ghosts are pretty fun reads but can't speak for the other series' though.

tl;dr they're fun but don't expect the next Dune either

>>18086737
Lois McMaster-Bujold is a geat writer, both her Vorkosigan scifi novels as well as the fantasy novel Curse of Chalion are top notch.

>>18087460
Well I meant in context of story it starts off slow but accelerates to some massive world ending scenario. I mentioned FF as most of the games have stories where its some kind of humble beginning but by the end the characters are fighting literal gods.

>just started BOTNS
>over ten different words I don't know the meaning of, in the first chapter alone
>french words, scottish words, ancient greek words
>two different philosophical paragraphs I had to read several times over to try to understand
this is gonna be one hell of a ride, huh

>>18087350
True. Honestly it's hard to care about the biggest wars in fantasy books nowadays when they would be baby native world level threat in xianxia. When you're seen enemies destroy worlds from their own power (like the power of the fucking time and space or even the void) and then go back to some soldiers fighting in the dirt with swords and some magic that makes a tiny explosion it's disappointing.

>>18087539
Just prepare yourself not to understand what's really going on, then read Urth of the New Sun for the explanation, then some reddit post online for the real explanation.

>>18085759
>meme series
Are there any other worthwhile fantasy series in recent history?

Fuck, E William Brown

>>18087539
If you think you understood them, you don't understand them. Severain twisting words around to make you believe what he says about the coin is part of the magic, though.

>>18087539
>>18087567
Brainlets think that making something overly complicated makes you smart or makes it "high literature", which isn't true. Take Tolkien for example, his prose is easy to understand and great.

>>18087628
I like it for immersion you brainlet

>>18087645
The prose being overly complicated makes it less immersive. You have to strike the right balance, and most would agree that BOTNS is overly complicated. I think that Tolkien has achieved the right balance and that's why reading Tolkien is both immersive and pleasurable. Reading shouldn't be a performative act.

any good low fantasy series that are not too long?
I was thinking of going for The Red Knight

>>18087728
>most would agree that BOTNS is overly complicated
lol

>>18087728
The prose isn't over complicated though, compared to someone like Joyce or Nabokov. It's just the images and scenes he describes (and sometimes the words he uses) that are intentionally puzzling. The prose itself is fine, I think personally it's better than Tolkien's grand, high, archaic style. Also Tolkien's dialog (except for those few epic scenes, like Theoden's 'Horse and Rider' monologue at Helm's Deep) is really bad sometimes

>>18087752
>>18087764
You don't think this is overly complicated? This is an imageboard, you don't have anyone to impress here.

Recently finished book 2 of Stormlight archive and decided to take a break from the series to prevent burnout.

Anybody got some good standalone recommendations? Preferably not too long unless it’s really good.

>>18087777
Nice digits but you’re a legit brainlet dude

>>18087780
genre etc?

>>18087828
You have no arguments. Repeating that word won't make you less of a brainlet.

>>18087777
>quoting Wikipedia
you haven't actually read any of BOTNS, have you. Anybody who actually reads and knows about literary techniques knows that vocabulary is only part of an author's style. An author's style is composed of many things: sentence structure, point of view, and vocabulary, among other things. Take this passage from LOTR
>The great shadow descended like a falling cloud. And behold! It was a winged creature: if bird, then greater than all other birds, and it was naked, and neither quill or feather did it bear, and its vast pinions were as webs of hide between horned fingers; and it stank. A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly; and he gave it to his servant to be his steed. –pg 822
Tolkien's vocabulary is very simple (compared to Wolfe's), but his sentence structure is intentionally evocative of that archaic medieval style. Likewise, the style that Wolfe evokes is simpler, but the vocabulary is obscure and often arcane because the point-of-view of the narrator–Severian–is of someone who lives in the world and assumes that the reader will be familiar with these terms as well; Severian is telling us the story, and he assumes we are familiar with the world. Does that make sense?

>>18087838
Anything. Just shill me a book you really like.

>>18087933
Out of the Silent Planet

>>18087777
Lmfao you have no idea what a "complicated" book is, do you? Wolfe's use of linguistics, unfamiliar words with recognizable roots, to give the reader enough room to conjure up their own images, is one of the more interesting things that BOTNS does. It's not "overly complicated," it's a key component of the book. Peace has complicated prose, but all the complications of reading BOTNS are in recognizing references to other stories/myths/Catholicism.

>>18087893
>>18087997
>knows that vocabulary is only part of an author's style
>unfamiliar words with recognizable roots, to give the reader enough room to conjure up their own images
No, obfuscating is what frauds do. Brainlets can pretend that it's immersive, but it isn't. It's just annoying. Look at this >>18087777 and you can tell that he's a fraud. Digits confirm. Compare Wolfe to a master like Tolkien and it becomes even more apparent. The truth is that almost all fantasy (except Tolkien and a few others) is not noteworthy.

I began reading BOTNS but stopped after a few pages because I recognized him as a fraud.

>>18088120
you realize you're literally crying because you couldn't clearly understand at first glace what Wolfe was saying? Fucking hell, it's readers like you that Nabokov warned us about unless this is bait but I get the feeling you're genuinely retarded

>>18088146
I think he's a fraud, like most fantasy writers. He doesn't have anything genuine to say so he hides that fact behind obfuscation. Classic fraud, but brainlets like you love that kind of stuff.

Is it ok to talk about Star Wars?
I enjoyed the Thrawn Trilogy and will probably start reading the X-wing novels after i finish The High Republic Novels any other recommendations? I don't mind how convoluted the old canon stuff gets but the Kotor Novels seem cool too.

I dunno, I just want to chill out and read about space wizards and shit.

These are the Sci-fi books I plan on reading somewhat soon, what are your opinions on them

"The Time Machine" and "The Invisible Man" - HG Wells
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Heinlein
Dune - Herbert
The Dispossessed - Ursula K. Le Guin

>>18088175
I'm pretty sure you started out being genuinely retarded but have gone into "epic troll mode" since you realized that screenshotting wikipedia was, as I said, genuinely retarded. So at least you're getting somewhere. Read Peace if you think Wolfe doesn't have anything to say; it's not very long.

>>18088389
I just showed why he's dishonest and a fraud. Would you have preferred if I screenshotted some pages from the book that showed the same thing? Clearly you don't care about having a good faith discussion.

>>18082390
Jezal best boy. Age of Madness sequel trilogy also pretty good, can't wait for the third one this september

Any other series with an arrogant or snobby nobleman as a lead? Already read the Long Price Quartet and the Prince of Fools series

>>18088431
Ebin

>>18086628
Bdsm one yes

>>18088212
Read the New Jedi Order, some people hated it because it started straying into grimdark territory with characters dying, but it covers an alien invasion of the galaxy so of course its gonna have people dying.
Highlights include;
Full power Luke fucking shit up
Han and Leia's kids fucking shit up
Imperial Remnant finally not being the bad guy
Other Jedi fucking shit up
Mandalorians doing mando things with Boba Fett

Prior reading not really needed if you've been on wookiepedia for a while

>>18087434
>tfw no thicc sumna milf to lap ur seed

>>18087453
literally bakker

from “whoa, this branch looks crazy” to “whoa, this antichrist god-man has resurrected an ancient alien apocalypse engine”

>>18087464
>>18088683
I've heard this Bakker alot. Whats a starting point with him?

What are some good sites to download free audiobooks from bros?

>>18088806
The darkness that comes before

>>18087453
>"we gotta get this package to the innkeeper lol" to "God. Must. Die."
try the Shadowmarch series by Tad Williams, it is just what you seek.

I just finished reading Soldier of the Mist. What did I think of it?

>>18087780
Try "The War of the Flowers" by Tad Williams.

>>18088819

audiobook bay has a lot, it's the best torrent option as far as I know. Just keep in mind that the search function is horrible and not everything is seeded.

>>18088238
Mostly solid choices except maybe the Moon is a Harsh Mistress. It is a classic but I treid it twice couldnt get more than a couple off pages in because it seemed so cliche and unrealistic and boring. I'd go for Starship Troopers instead or maybe Stranger in a Strange Land.

>>18087309
Faulkner = PKD
Shakespeare = no real equivalent but maybe someone who wrote teleplays like Ellison or Bradbury
Joyce = Delany

any (good) erotica with sff settings?

>>18089198
IT

>>18087570
>>18087731
Abercrombie's First Law

>>18089198
Daniel Black series
Sin and Soil series
Herald of Shalia series
Tsun tsun tzimtzum series (kind of a rough first boook but gets better after that)
Celestine Chronicles (can get dangerously furry at times)
Accidental incubus (new series with some promise)

Probably the best you can expect out of the smut/fantasy genre.

>mfw no salvation

>>18089384
Hmm. I read
>Daniel Black series
>Herald of Shalia series
>Celestine Chronicles (can get dangerously furry at times)
They were okay.

What about these?
>Sin and Soil series
I have Sin and Soil, but from the blurb it doesn't seem as magical as Daniel and the others up top.

>Tsun tsun tzimtzum series (kind of a rough first boook but gets better after that)
I read the first book of the author's other series that purple hair series rogue something. Is the Tsun good?

>Accidental incubus (new series with some promise)
Is this that hack Jack Prater/ Eric vall, where they tried to copy Randi Darren's Incubus Incorp?

>>18085922
>>18085934
>>18085962
Any other books with the protagonist going insane? It was one of my favorite aspects of WoT, probably the one thing keeping me reading. The messianic figure losing it was great. Shame it didn't go far enough.

>>18089468
la oscuridad que viene antes de r. escott bakkaro

>>18087050
I'm on book 8 right now and Egwene is the least of my worries, heck I would like to go back to her Elayne and Nyviane are cancer, even aviehnda who I thought was a bit cringy but didn't mind is becoming insufferable.

I will go on to spite the anon who said I wouldn't finish it but holy hell, please get back to rand already.

>>18089468
A Scanner Darkly

>50% Ketyai
>45% Dûnyain
>4% Royal Kûniüric
>1% Nonman
La creatura...
La atrocidad...
El hijo del Emperador...
El ogro de los Three Seas...
El monstruo de los Andiamene Heights...
Deshonra la familia...
La Luz extinguido...

>>18089489
Looks interesting, thanks.

>>18089460
The first three are smut so I'm sure the others follow suite.
Are you some filthy pervert?

>>18086766
This.
Though I can't see them making a better ending than the last trilogy is so far

>>18089460
Sin and soil has some magic to it, but yes it’s more grounded than the other series. Most of the magic comes from the immortal 7 deadly sins and those who serve them.
Tsun is good. Just the first book is a little cringe at times. Just be prepared for it and know it stops after that book.
No. Accidental is written by someone else who writes better smut than those knock offs.

>>18088985
I read the the history and prelude so far and seems like its building up to something nice. Thanks for the recommend, Anon!

>>18088841
Gonna check this one out after I finish the Shadowmarch sample. Thanks!

>>18089468
Mon journal desu ne

Seriously though: Das Parfum

>>18089731
>No. Accidental is written by someone else who writes better smut than those knock offs.
Then by who?

>>18090001
Deacon frost. This is his first feature length fantasy book, that’s why I’m saying it’s a promising first book.

>>18090036
Why are all these knife ears books with big chests these days?

>>18090126
This book has some terrible fucking writing. Don’t let the big booba cover fool you.

>>18087426
>>18085470
here is an excerpt from the opening sequence of the first book, i find it a good filter to determine whether you will like the books or not

>“This Sranc here—you could not pronounce its name—was our elju . . . our ‘book,’ you would say in your tongue. A most devoted animal. I’ll be wrecked without it—for a time, anyway.” He
surveyed the other dead. “Nasty, vicious creatures, really.” He looked back up to Kellhus. “But most . . . memorable.”
An opening. Kellhus would explore. He said: “So reduced. You’ve become so pitiful.”
“You pity me? A dog dares pity?” The Nonman laughed harshly. “The Anasûrimbor pities me! And so he should . . . Ka’cûnuroi souk ki’elju, souk hus’jihla.” He spat, then gestured with his sword to the surrounding dead. “These . . . these Sranc are our children now. But before! Before, you were our children. Our heart had been cut out and so we cradled yours. Companions to the ‘great’ Norsirai kings.” The Nonman stepped nearer.
“But no longer,” he continued. “As the ages waxed, some of us needed more than your childish squabbles to remember. Some of us needed a more exquisite brutality than any of your feuds could render. The great curse of our kind—do you know it?
Of course you know it! What slave fails to exult in his master’s degradation, hmm?” The wind wrapped his hoary cloak about him. He took another step.
“But I make excuses like a Man. Loss is written into the very earth. We are only its most dramatic reminder.”

>>18090201
I can see why people might like that... but this just solidified he is not for me.

>>18090232
His writing is very baroque, intentionally grandiose and purple. It has a heavy, Biblical, McCarthy-esque quality with a bit of dark sarcasm. Certainly not for everyone, but those of us who love it, really love it.

>>18090243
>McCarthy-esque quality
fuck no lol

>>18090282
He writes with a copy of Blood Meridian and the KJV beside him at all times, you caste-menial fool.

>>18081033

>first page is MC buffing himself and preparing to enter a room for a fight
>enemy is his wife
It's by the same guy who is writing Art of the Adept. It's nothing exemplary in terms of content/plot but it's been a smooth read thus far with some fun characters, decent conceivable humor, and a convincing female side accomplice.
No goddamn cats yet :(

the retardation of comparing bakker to mccarthy actually cannot be understated with one simple lol
their styles are completely dissimilar
fucking GRRM is closer to bakker

>>18090285
have you read blood meridian? please tell me you've actually read blood meridian and are still trying to compare it in any way to bakker's style. that would make my fucking day. tell me how they made gunpowder.

>>18090282
Cope.

>>18090327
cope what? cope with actually having read mccarthy? i haven't even said if i like bakker or not. maybe i do. but mccarthy is the furthest heavily-memed author that you could pick to compare him to.

>>18090303
not that anon, you are correct that bakker and grrm have a similar writing style particularly when setting an atmosphere of melancholy, it suffuses both their works; but literally speaking, i think bakker is the truest successor to tolkien

>>18086617
He's a world builder in my view, but not a very good writer. The stories are interesting but the prose itself always hit me as workmanlike and lacking in style or flavor, which is arguably a style of its own.

>>18086737
The Pride of Chandur is by a woman, and I enjoyed it. Semi-hard sci-fi with non-human protagonist/PoV, and no HFY.

>>18090349
I see very little similarity between GRRM and Baker when it comes to atmosphere. They're written incredibly differently.

>>18090303
Of course I've read BM. Their phrasing, biblical pretensions, idiosyncratic vocabulary, psychedelic passages mixed with bursts of ultraviolence, ponderous philosophical digressions, are all comparable. Obviously Bakker doesn't hold a candle to McCarthy but it's clear the influence is there. The slog in the second series is a direct rip off of the scalpers' journey in BM.

GRRM has a mundane quality to his description that makes it feel like you're reading a novelization of a TV show. Bakker's prose more than anything reads like the mildly stoned ramblings of an overenthusiastic, high-IQ dungeon master raised on fundamentalist bible school. McCarthy is an obvious influence and so are Blake, Melville, and Milton, and although Bakker is clearly not on their level in terms of literary prose, he's about the best there is in the fantasy genre. Cope.

>>18090349
>i think bakker is the truest successor to tolkien
ok you are absolutely full of shit. I get liking bakker but for fucks sake his writing has little to nothing in common with Tolkien.

>>18087933
Hyperion. It's a scifi take on Canterbury tales, and it's fantastic.

Second one is good too, but loses some magic by being more traditional storytelling, and the original book stands arguably better than as part of a larger story.

>>18086737
I really enjoyed the Black Magician Trilogy by Trudi Canavan. I cannot really say the same about other books by her, but this one is fun, and I have reread it several times. It's a magic school rags to riches story that turns into 'slum girl saves the kingdom' by the end, which is a nice, comfy character arc.

I've also enjoyed the Godspeaker Trilogy by Karen Miller, as well as a duology called Kingmaker, Kingbreaker also by her. She has a very distinctive way of writing men though, that makes me conscious of the fact she is a woman writing a man. It's hard to describe.

Is there any good western isekai?

>>18090370
>didn't say how they made gunpowder
yeah you just read that shit off googling what other people say about BM. oh well.
>is
lol, you cope. he isn't publishing anything else.

>>18087050
I honestly skip over most of her chapters when I reread. She never gets better upon revisiting, unlike Nynaeve, who is one of my favorite characters where once she was one of the ones I disliked the most.

>>18089487
You're in the series' arguably lowest point, where a lot of characters just feel like they're treading water waiting for shit to happen, tons of attention is given to side plots like basically everything happening in Ebou Dar up until shit finally gets real. Mat is a bright spot but he really comes alive after the interminable Ebou Dar adventures end. Nynaeve also starts becoming a lot more likable once she marries Lan and hopefully it will help you see into her true nature, which can be hard to get when you're first reading the series.

90's gave us GRRM
00's gave us Bakker
10's gave us ???
20's gave us ???

>>18090409
Kek sorry I missed that point in your rage filled post. Ofc they pissed on bat shit and volcanic ash, that part was le epic. And it's clear Bakker stole the horrific wildness of the Comanche attack for description of his Sranc hordes. And Holden is an obvious parallel to the hairless Nonmen. Seethe more anon.

>>18090425
10s gave us Sanderson/Rothfuss
20s gave us me, I still have a year or two before my debut but stay tuned

>>18090425
>20's gave us ???
f gardner, of course

>>18089069
PKD as Faulkner and Bradbury as the closest thing to Shakespeare are good choices

>>18090375
writers are products of their times, not entire writings but viewing the world through their generational zeitgeist is what makes one similar to another imo, what is different in the journey through siol and moria? are not sranc the fulfilment of the orcs? the relationship between cunuroi and emwanna similar to the one between elves and hobbits? the outlook of passing through the veil, both on the outside of the main setting and admitting limited number of passengers, either of noble blood and deeds or through maladaptation of the true power? or what lies on the other side, unlimited bliss for others (not men) or unending suffering (of men) for the nourishment of others (also not men)?

>>18090457
>tfw the valar are actually malevolent lovecraftian entities
>tfw the halls of mandos are actually psychic planes of hieronymous bosch-tier eternal torture

Is she right about The Darkness That Comes Before Bakkerbros?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDVJXYEFSM

>>18090425
>90's gave us GRRM
Jordan is the far more influential fantasy writer from the 90s, I would say. I would even say Terry Goodkind was more well known in the 90s than Martin was. GRRM is undoubtedly the biggest name now, but his work in the 90s was not the cause of that. It was writers like Jordan and Goodkind that dominated the 90s and into the 00s too.

>00s gave us Bakker
Bakker is, in spite of memes on /sffg/, not an influential author. The 00s gave us the likes of Paolini, which I hate to say, but he was a big deal in the 00s. Rothfus too, got his start in that decade, and when he first came out he was the rising star everybody talked about and hyped up, but that carried on well into the '10s, and Rothfus despite all the hype ended up with all the impact of a wet fart, just as Paolini disappeared after his atrocious trilogy ended. I think the real winner of the 00s was Abercrombie, even though I hate him and his trite books, he started in the middle of the 00s and he's become a big name since.

>10s
The decade of Sanderson. He finished Wheel of Time, attaching his name to Jordan's legacy, and began publishing his magnum opus, Stomlight Archive, in 2010, at the very start of the decade, and he published regularly throughout it. But the '10s also saw the rise of GRRM to prominence and become a household name. This is really where his influence actually began to take hold on fantasy novels, though it ultimately was due to the popularity of a TV show so I don't want to give it to him.

>20s
Maybe an aspiring author from /lit/? I would like to see it.

>>18089069
I like PKD a lot but his similarities to Faulkner end with "both wrote some kind of weird books". PKD's prose is one of his biggest weaknesses; most of his appeal comes from his unique worldview.

Reiterating an earlier request for books where somebody fucks an alien (or appropriately alien fantasy creature) and does not go on to regret it.

>>18090476
>Maybe an aspiring author from /lit/? I would like to see it.
If I can get off my ass, stop gambling shitcoins on /biz/ and Nietzscheposting on /lit/, and work with sustained focus on my magnum opus, I should be ready to publish in a year or two.

Ugh, that sounds like forever. Hold tight friends, I want to give you something truly unique and exceptional. You guys deserve more than the next Rothfaggot or Hackercrombie.

>>18090476
00s also gave us lynch, the lies of locke lamorra is one of the highest selling books, selling more than many of sanderson books combined.

>>18090476
The 00s is contentious. I would put my vote in for Erickson. He technically started in 1999, but he published mostly in the 00s. Also >>18090507 Lynch's popularity was undeniable if we're using that metric. And Paolini is a turd so I would give it to Lynch.

>>18090495
Honestly, writing is a lot easier than you expect once you get started. It's editing that's hard, I'm finding. Anyways, read Story Genius; it helped me finally get past chapter 1.

>>18090476
>Maybe an aspiring author from /lit/? I would like to see it.

Originally me, but then I encountered Bakker's work and saw that the mix of epic fantasy with Lovecraftian Cosmicism (as opposed to just lifting entities from the mythos) was already being done, and at a quality that didn't beg for someone to do it better.
So now I am at something at a loss, hopefully temporarily, about how to proceed.

Maybe in the 2030's.

>>18090526
>Honestly, writing is a lot easier than you expect once you get started
I get carried away while writing, earlier this week I wrote almost nonstop for 14 hours one day, and forgot to eat. I wrote almost 24,000 words that day, my most productive in months.

>>18090533
Based. I envy the "bleed all over the keyboard" approach. I meticulously edit as I type, which saves time in the edit phase, but makes the actual writing much much slower.

>>18090476
>But the '10s also saw the rise of GRRM to prominence and become a household name. This is really where his influence actually began to take hold on fantasy novels, though it ultimately was due to the popularity of a TV show so I don't want to give it to him.
No. Certainly the show made GRRM more popular. But ASOIF was already huge back in the 00s. Back then it would always top best fantasy series lists and it was already incredibly influential.
>>18090507
I don't know about sales but, unfortunately, Sanderson certainly had a larger influence on the fantasy genre.

>>18085458
I have the hardcover they put out. I wish they did the whole series in this style.

>>18085458
I have the hardcover they put out. I wish they did the whole series in this style.

>>18088819
Just register on myanonamouse, it's not hard

>>18090537
If I was that productive constantly I would have published several times over. A lot of what I write is also crap, I am definitely no genius, but hopefully some of this crap will become something I am proud of eventually.

>>18090552
>Sanderson certainly had a larger influence on the fantasy genre.
Influence, or sales? I mean he, or some of his ideas, has managed to dominate the discourse in a lot of ways, but I am not seeing a lot of people actually trying tying to copy him. I just think the guy is extremely competent at self-promotion so you see him everywhere, but his actual impact is not as big as this would lead you to believe.

>>18090988
What I've noticed is that Sanderson primarily appeals to people who don't read fiction. For a majority of his market, other books might as well not exist. So I think that he's a bit of an island, in that regard. I think he's mostly influential among self-published authors and is reflected more in the trending shitstains up the royalroad than in published literature.

>>18090988
Influence. There have been several imitations of the top of my head like Brent Weeks, Brian McClellan, and James Islington. And his stance on magic systems has certainly had a large impact, particularly on big epic fantasy series.

>>18091010
I don't think it's specifically people who don't read fiction, but I do think there's a not insignificant amount of readers who are very enamored with descriptions of systems and processes to whom Bakker's writing obviously appeals. Like >>18091014 notes there are a lot people who get basically nothing out of the books other than "the magic system is cool", and for them that is enough. It's an unusual but not unique mindset, which is why Bakker thrives in a niche and why similar sorts of stories tend to crop up in self-published circles.

>>18091053
In my tallying of the 3 real humans I've met who read Sanderson (and are willing to admit it, I guess,) 2 literally don't read anything else, and 1 thought the last two books of Hyperion were good, so I don't know what to make of that one. Anyways, I'm not a market researcher and neither of us have big data, but I'm willing to bet that a significant portion of Sanderson's audience does not give a fuck about other fiction and only read it because he's heavily marketed (in every sense.)

>>18081022
where do I start if I want to read Elric of Melnibone

>>18090425
>90s
GRRM was niche. And how can you forget Rowling? Sci-fi dead.
>00s
Definitely goes to Rothfuss as debut. Rowling really popped off thanks to the movies. Meyer kicked off the YA fantasy romance. Sci-fi still dead.
>10s
Carried by Sanderson. GRRM started to pick up. Rothfuss died. Abercrombie gains popularity. Children's fantasy still firmly attached to Rowling. Sci-fi revived by Weir with a successful self-pub.
>20s
Probably going to be a self-pub debut. Or something that people can read online for free. No one wants to pay for a book in this decade.

>>18091077
I can see people who don't otherwise like fiction approaching Sanderson, but I think that has less to do with marketing and more to do with the mindset of those readers. Sanderson is literature that appeals to people who don't approach books with a literary mindset; there are people who think of books as toys or games to be considered and manipulated, and the way Sanderson writes puts out a lot for those people to work with.

>>18091053
Do you mean Sanderson? Because that is who they were talking about, and I wouldn't consider him similar to Bakker.

>>18091098
>Probably going to be a self-pub debut. Or something that people can read online for free. No one wants to pay for a book in this decade.
I don't think this is true. I think that was largely true of the end of the last decade, where reading was pretty much entirely out-of-fashion. It's becoming more fashionable, though. I think it'll be a debut, but self-pub still has a heavy stigma because so much of it can be rightfully assumed to be dogshit. Maybe towards the end of the decade, but I predict the next breakout coming within the next few years that makes books fashionable again. (Publishers have to be fucking desperate trying to manufacture that breakout, at this point.)

>>18091124
Yeah that was a typo.

>>18091088
Anywhere. You can google charts and the like. But it is like asking where to start with Conan, there is a rough chronology (that in no way syncs to the publishing order) but they were all published as stand alone shorts in pulp mags, and then eventually collected in to books.

>>18088212
>>18088529

Man guys.

Star Wars novels got my through my pre-teen years into my early 20's. I've read dozens and dozens of them.

I had read everything chronologically through the first new New-Jedi Order in 2015 and then quit once Disney announced all that non-canon.

So for everything pre-Disney, I can provide reco's on almost the entire "Legacy" canon.

Some highlights from me off the htop of my head:
The Mace Windu (Shatterpoint) and Yoda POV novels (Dark Rendezvous).
Republic Commando
The Han Solo Trilogy (This is pure kino. Probably my favorite of anything here.)
The Lando Calrissian Trilogy is also nice.
The Courtship of Princess Leia I recall liking.
iJedi is great.

Fuck I miss the pre-Disney days. Not everything is good and some is generic but it still had SOUL... specifically the goofy Lucas SW Soul (the good kind)... in these books.

>>18082892
Tower of Babel series

>>18090473
yes, read literature with women characters of actual depth, incel

>>18091191
But the study is so deep, Anon...

>>18091191
Esmenet is one of the most realistic female characters in fiction.

damn i love harry potter m8s

>>18090473
I totally get why a shallow booktuber wouldn't be into it. And actually it was kind of cruel on the part of whoever recommended it to her.

>>18081033
does the main kid fuck any women in this

>>18091199
Based sincerityposter
Harry Potter is great and lots of the current stock of writers should learn some things from it
It's become very fashionable to hate it and I think people have taken that to mean that books aren't allowed to be fun

>>18091213
Yeah it's pretty much the main running thread of the book that he fucked a woman. Not in much detail, obviously.

>>18091163
Revenge of the Sith is the best SW novel. Stover is great.

>>18091220
Ironically this was probably my biggest issue with the books, the MC's compete and total obsession with the fairly girl.

>>18091247
I don't really know what to say to that because it *was* the novel. I mean one, there's the play on the Arthurian tradition that decided Arthur was a cuck for whatever reason, but there's also the idea that she made him who he was, and even though she was literally made from mud and shit and straw by a bunch of subhuman worms, he became a demigod warrior and then an angel in heaven. In that (Catholic) way she's also reflected in the mother character that appears from time to time - the main point of the novel, I would say, is Wolfe trying to fathom how far from (and yet near to) God humanity is. Anyways he tells you upfront that "everything he did is for Disiri" so I don't know what you expected lol

>>18090431
Please do not group Sanderson/Rothfuss in the same grouping.

Sanderson is going to go down (like it or not) as one of the most prolific/ hardest working / well respected SFF authors of the 2000-2050ish era. He is a "Stephen King" type of the current generation.

Rothfuss is a literal cuck who is going to go down as a 1 hit wonder. That 2nd book is NOT good enough to stand up to its criticisms.
And the 3rd book is never happening. The guy has very clearly incapable of finishing another book in his current state.

I would say that instead of being a "what could have been" he's going to go to "one hit wonder" as time goes on.

>>18091280
I expected more depth to their relationship.

>>18090473
Reading the comments, after watching the review, and it strikes me that Bakker's greatest crime, in the eyes of the majority of Fantasy Fans (especially the kind that come from the speed read 100 YA novels a month milieu), is not writing wish fulfilment that. And that wish is broad one, but it mostly includes characters readers want to self insert into and affirmation of their inner moral landscape (nearly always reflecting the societal status quo).

Bakker, quite possibly to his detriment, aims to write fantasy for people who prefer Nabokov to fantasy. Yet, he also writes for a Heavy Metal "that's brutal, dude" audience. The overlap is tiny.

>>18091098
>Weir
Ugh I almost wish he didn't. His style of scifi is more like a contemporary novel with it's focus on character studies over actual science fiction concepts.

>>18091304
And that is why I'm thankful he wrote the two series. Truly distinctive fantasy.

>>18091313
Me too! It is a shame we might not get a conclusion, but even so it was worth it for what we got.

>>18090813
I just bought this. It's the best Dune cover I've ever seen. I love the glossy finish, I love the image of Paul.
I love the interior artwork and I love the green page ends.

I own the old mass market ones (mostly solid colors) and I own the trade paperbacks of the newest box art (the highly stylized ones).

But this one was just too much I had to get it. And yes I agree so much.

My biggest hope is the movie is a giant hit and spikes demand that they decide to do this deluxe release for the rest.

>>18091294
Like I said, their relationship is comparable to man's relationship with God, as perceived by Gene Wolfe. Man sees the light of God, it makes him grow up, and he spends the rest of his life in service of it. It does not often speak back, it often hides from him, but he would throw everything else away to be with it again when he is not. I'm not even a Christian, and I think that's pretty deep. It's just not straightforward - I don't even think I have it completely figured out. You get some more traditional romancey stuff with the duke's daughter, anyhow.

>>18091292
They're both absolute dogshit and tragically Rothfuss's shit prose actually outpaces Sanderson's anime hack drivel by a mile. Sad!

>>18091372
Sandersons prose is far less embarrassing, it is terrible, but it makes not effort to be anything other than simple, direct, and explanatory. Rothfuss actually tries and is worse for it.

>>18091399
Hell no. Rothfuss's prose is far better, not that that is saying much. Sanderson has better plots though than Rothfuss's embarrassing cuckshit.

>>18091399
As someone with an IQ over 100 I find the experience of reading both of these "authors" to resemble pulling splinters in terms of pleasure and intellectual stimulation.

>>18090466
Bakker's hell is worse than anything by Hieronymous Bosch. They remind me more of what you'd get in a datura trip but with 200% more pain and horrific suffering instead of just existential horror.

>>18090473
She'd make a really good Esmi.

>>18091427
>not a beautiful mahogany brown pajeeta
are you high on bakker's personal stash or something?

>>18091214
The irony of the "hate" is that it PURELY comes from Rowling not being totally down with trannys.

Guaranteed had she just been silent, those books would be HEAVILY revered still by the modern audience.

And to be clear- I think a LOT of what rowling has done post-potter is cringe with her wizard poop, Dumbledore a Fruit, etc...

But Potter books are so great. SO much soul in them. And kept it mostly despite insane success, which is VERY hard to do and what I give Potter the most credit for.

>>18091472
>HEAVILY revered still by the modern audience.
It still is revered by modern audience, don't take what twitter does as proof.

>>18091472
First 3 and maybe the fourth had SOUL. Rest were increasingly worse.

>>18091372
I disagree. Rothfuss has better prose, but the plot is pretty fucking anime.

The Sanderson I have read the prose is YA tier- but characters are solid and its MCU of fantasy as far as plot... I don't hate it for what it is.

>>18091494
What’s wrong with 5, 6 and 7.

>>18090457
Bakker purposely wrote with Tolkien in mind.
His comment on Tolkien's talent at mythological world building and how it's central to epic fantasy was spot on.

>>18091402
This is where I stand. Though I agree Rothfuss prose comes off pretty "try-hard" at times, I admit that overall it's still pretty solid.

Sanderson though wins in every other category. He is not "highbrow" by any means, but its fun and easy as butter to read and I enjoy it for what it is.

>>18091519
>highbrow
Who cares about that? Why not just read for fun?

>>18091494
I wonder if it's because I was younger when reading the first ones or if the quality really drops, but I had to force myself though the last two books.

>>18091522
You get the feeling she was tired of writing the books.

>>18091527
Isn't that endemic to all long-running series?

>>18091472
Nah this take is less based
Harry Potter hate has been a thing since the first book came out
You had that dude that said the book shouldn't be read because people stretch their legs too much, ridiculous shit like that (great retard detector though, since that phrase occurs exactly once in the book)
It's just that since the mainline stopped, the fanbase fizzled, and there's no collective voice to counter the hate anymore and remind people what worked about the books and encourage it in others
Granted, Rowling herself could have lead that voice, had she not been a fucking twitter goblin, but really I think it's the fault of newer authors who are too insecure to be as fun

>>18091535
>Harry Potter hate has been a thing since the first book came out
Didn't some other authors try to frame Rowling for plagiarism?

>>18091494
I disagree. I think the "Tone" shift of 5-7 was stark- but it still very much felt like the world from the first 4 books.

A lot of people can point to a lot of "flaws" in 5-7, but IMO Rowling really kept the "Wizarding World" Soul alive throughout the entire series.

>>18091542
The Tone was shifting even before that. Rowling wrote the series as her fans were growing up, which allowed a lot of dark things to come into the narrative.

>>18091541
That shot was retarded from the get go. It was for a word, muggles, of all things.

>>18091541
Adrian Jacob.

Also something about Willy the Wizard

>>18091535
I somewhat don't agree. I think most "hate" prior to Rowlings twitter escapades was mostly viewed as purely contrarian.

There is always hate on popular things (especially stuff for the YA crowd) but Potter legit broke through all that to where only the most obnoxious were vocally negative towards it.

I think the fanbase fizzled because Rowling, despite not wanting to write any more proper novels, continued to fuck with her L O R E on the internet.

IDK about you anon, but I consoomed an embarrassing amount of HP fanfic when I was in middle school. That was a HUGE part of her die-hard audience that she killed by constantly raping her series online.

>>18091578
Which fanfics did you read? Also, yeah, Rowling is an example of what not to do with a series.

>>18091521
I do though anon.... I said I very much enjoy it for what it is.

Mistborn Era 1 in particular I thought was a TON of fun to read.

But if you are looking for a more "highbrow" experience it's not what I would go for, thats all.

>>18091588
Oh shit, sorry, piss poor reading on my part.

>>18091578
>>18091586
Never understood the appeal of fanfics.

>>18091602
Literally COPE

>>18091548
I agree totally. I essentially followed Harry in age so I was literally the direct audience.

I think the tipping point of "Cozy" into "More Edge" officially happened in Book 5. It was a gradual shift each book that culminated at the end of 4. At that point the "innocence" was gone from the story. Really masterfully done from Rowling in that regard.

New thread
>>18091606

>>18091521
>Why not just read for fun?
Because reading for other things has the side effect of increasing the pleasure of reading by opening up new avenues of consideration to appreciate. By reducing your interaction down to just "for fun" you actually reduce the range of works that you may end up actually enjoying, and you will never have the satisfaction of discovering a work that speaks to you on multiple levels as often these works are not "fun" at first glance, but reveal themselves to be intensely stimulating when approached from more than one angle.

If I wanted to just have "fun" I would simply do coke.

>>18091586
>>18091602

The appeal is when you are in the "obsessed" mindset and just want more. I'm not proud, but I was 13 and couldn't get enough Potter.

I don't remember names of fics- but I spent almost all my time on Sugarquill- it was a HP fanfic sites with like SUPER strict submission rules. They treated it like a serious publishing co. lol. Also they had really strict rules about being "canon-realistic"... so no Harry/Draco trash on the website was a nice plus.

>>18091578
It was viewed as contrarian, because there was a larger counter-force in favor of the books, and that's exactly my point - it's not contrarian now because the favoring voice has gone away
I do wish I had read fanfic when I was younger but I did not
Honestly though, HP fanfic writers were never going to pick up the torch
You can't write any sort of a close relative of Harry Potter and have it feel like anything but a Harry Potter ripoff (or at best satire)
What's needed is someone who can find another subject to write about and make it just as fun
Honestly Ernest Cline's probably the closest that anyone's come since, but he's complete dogshit and I get no enjoyment from the flavor of whimsy he's offering

Trouble is really that writing a book with whimsy and a voice and a theme and a tight plot and a world that's easy to imagine yourself in is actually hard

>>18085274
hated this tbqh

>>18091304
im a bakkerfag but this comment is very cringe. it comes off as very smug and pseud-y. That being said i agree with some of the sentiment that most normies and women especially just cant connect with the series at all. Honestly i doubt there are even many non-white men who like it. It's truly the cerebral spergy whtieboy series of choice

>>18092837
Explain why it is incorrect right now, because it offers both an accurate assessment of a good portion of the fantasy reader base in the post YA-Boom landscape, especially the kind to engage the booktuber community, and this assessment stands regardless of its relation to Bakker.

To continue, the comparison of Bakker to Nabokov, which I assume you find "pseudy", is because Nabokov was one of the people most vocally against reading to project yourself into the characters and considered a sign of an immature reader. Bakker in interviews and blog posts has expressed a similar sentiment, that he approaches his writing from a more, as you say "cerebral", angle where the aesthetic quality of the prose, and the ideas explored, take a much greater precedence over deliverying simple catharsis to the readers through a standard hero's journey structure.
Yet, fantasy finds itself in a situation where this habit among readers has become purposefully catered toward to the point where they consider it to be a sign of good writing and now it has become central to the marketability of the genre.

I can only assume you took offense because, to some extent, you partake in this behaviour?
I find your comment to be far more pseud, reducing it down to "white boi shit" rather than offering any meaningful analysis.

who knew bakkerfags were also fedora wearing cringelords (everyone did)

>>18092891