/lit/ - Literature

They don't. But CIA money can buy a lot more followers than cheap pamphlets.

The only reason you want to misgender trans folks is because rich people own factories. They're stealing the value of your surplus labor and their right wing media scares you into thinking that people different from yourself are bad. In a communist society, you would no longer have these hang ups, the desire to utter hate speech would not exist.

As for reading recommendations, you can't go wrong with the main man himself, Carl Marx.

>>18079156
CHAZ already annihilated any practical legitimacy anarchism still had

>>18079175
>advocate for anarchist society
>completely ignores human nature
>thinks people won't be hateful or selfish because they can
Idiot

>>18079156
imagine having quite literally the most reactionary ideology possible and still framing your views in terms of progress and being ‘past that’. Also good luck your tranny meds you fucking idiot. We gonna keep the pill factories open for people who only exist because modernity raped their head? Talk about oversocialized. Although, the dude’s right when it comes to rejecting similarly retarded modern sentiments like ‘only men hunt’ and enforced monogamy.

>>18079185
That thing about Ian is bullshit, right?

>>18079156
The kind of 'anarchy' most leftists today espouse has very little to do with freedom and much more to do with disagreements between these so-called anarchists and the gov't in power. If the gov't represented their values and did what they wanted, they would suddenly stop advocating for anarchy. Whereas I will always oppose the state's existence, whether it does things I like or hate. A priori anarchism is the only way to go. Also, anyone 'advocating' anarchy, as in, they want to bring it about, is misguided. It doesn't matter what type of state we live in, I am already an anarchist, I don't need society to conform to what I want in order to DO what I want.

That said, read Stirner
>>18079185
>CHAZ
>anarchy
maybe in the broadest possible sense

>>18079218
women are bad hunters because they are physically inferior. Men are dimorphic and specialized and should be the primary hunters and killers because women are too valuable to lose to getting torn up by a boar.

>>18079185
>CHAZ already annihilated any practical legitimacy anarchism still had
18 year old American detected. Anarchism hasn’t had any practical legitimacy since Marx tore it apart.

>>18079156
They can't, their vision is clouded and paradoxical.
>>18079185
>Ian is part of it
Please. Please be joking.

>AnPrim with chinese wastewater hormone pill characteristics

You gotta laugh!

>>18079185
Was anyone ever arrested for the the killing of those two teenagers?

>>18079229
>women are bad hunters because they are physically inferior.
Women are WORSE hunters because they are physically inferior, not bad necessarily. There is great evidence that both men and women would both hunt and gather. Were women a minority of hunters? Oh almost certainly. But this is formalized view you have of ‘men hunt, women gather’ is retarded and entirely informed by your societal socialization.

>>18079229
OK? Anarcho-primtiivism is about freedom from society. Trannies are out because they rely on modern society but women, even if they are less adept for it, can still hunt. If they die, that's their problem. Most will figure out sooner or later than the gatherer role is what suits them and the ones that don't are just proof of natural selection.

>>18079244
No. The law in america is blind to leftist terrorists

>>18079156
I think your looking at escapism not anarchism
>>18079251
stop reading pop-science articles.

>>18079156
>>18079175
but isnt there usually a higher level of gender and role norms in non modern societies? like that one experiment in isreal where a whole bunch of kids were raised unisex and the division of labor and socialization veired much more strictly by sex than it is today.

Of course anprim doesnt = victorian western notions, but that doesnt mean its a binary between the two.

>>18079219
Idk, he mostly gets hate because of Karl
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/So-what-s-up-with-Ian-from-Forgotten-Weapons-/5-2354294/

This has to be a troll

>>18079266
>facts don’t agree with my modern oversocialized view of women
>must be pop-science!!!!111!1

>>18079238
>Please. Please be joking.
Ian is a left wing communist faggot, and is a member of the John Brown Gun Club. It's okay, anon, the sooner you realize that everyone propped up in entertainment media is a left wing Jew the closer you will get to Nirvana.

>>18079251
There isn't great evidence
There is very flimsy and overexaggerated evidence (VERY sparse burials that might very well be taken out of context and a couple of corpses that died from animal attacks)
They weren't almost certainly a minority
They were absolutely a miniscule minority
This is your brain when you base your world view on study titles as portrayed by journalist article titles
>>18079257
The problem is that primitive societies have some of the strictest social norms in the world enforced by the fact that they mentally incapable of considering an alternative
Read up on the konso in Ethiopia

>>18079251
>But this is formalized view you have of ‘men hunt, women gather’ is retarded and entirely informed by your societal socialization.
is t that presumptiuous on how that conclusion was made? could t that simply be the human tendency of conflating tend with is and abstaction? of course its not physically axiomatic, but thats the transition of a sensation (this subset tends to correlate with this thing) to an idea (this subset is in a relation to this thing).

>>18079299
cope

>>18079279
given the internet points I think it's real, people argue like that here all the time
>>18079285
its not oversocailization. It's likely just mix of the current division of labor in liberal capitalist countries and some ignorance to primitive life.

>>18079307
>No arguements
Seethe harder

>>18079285
>trichromacy is linked to the x chromosome because uh... shut up!

>>18079238
>>18079288
Still the number one factor in the normalization and proliferation of firearms knowledge, which he promotes with no political bias (see: anon's shock in finding out his personal leanings)
This, in itself alone, is reason enough to like him. Karl is an insufferable shit-stain, though

>>18079303
Yeah, it’s possible that this sex division predates civilization, sure. But we don’t know that it does. All I’m saying is that it’s retarded to push clearly modern interpretations of premodernity. I am not arguing in the affirmative, but in the negative against the notion that strict post-agricultural sex roles can be translated easily into hunter-gatherer society. Things were less formalized then.

>>18079326
>We don't know that it does
We do, we have enough such societies still around with incredibly strict gender norms

>>18079303
and going off this, the questioning and distinction of sensation and idea seems essential epitome of formalization and western social dynamics if anything.

If your mind goes from women pick berry to the distinction between the implicit sensation and the technical one wich is directed to the distinction between the impression and the idea, that self analysis and seperation is essentially modern in epistemology. in how things are thought of.

>>18079251
Women are bad hunters because of not only physical inferiority but also the way their brains are wired. They plan ahead differently and have different perspectives than men - we compliment one another. To say this is some modern finding is asinine.
>>18079257
So you're saying that any women that chooses to hunt is going to die, and the ones that stay back won't? Except in a primitive society, the male will always keep his women home as an instinct - to keep her safe. She is the one that is going to bear his children. It is the same reason why female birds are camouflaged and males are colorful.

>>18079156
Idiots like you’ve posted are high horse liberals who want to impose their single cookie cutter ideal on people.
Same on the rightwing IDpol side, except they want to eliminate as many people as assimilate.
It’s not a left/right thing, it’s a mindset of immaturity. I’ve long known you can’t get such huge numbers of people to go completely along with one way or another.
They’re just no good at their strategy.

>>18079347
Are you assuming there won't be single women hunting? Do you think a male will snatch up a baby female once she's born as a future wife or something?
Women can and WILL rebel and kill males and they will hunt on their lonesome if that is their predilection

>>18079345
>We do, we have enough such societies still around with incredibly strict gender norms
There is not a single hunter-gatherer society in the world right now you absolute retard. Only agricultural societies. Even those sentinel islanders have agriculture

>>18079326
>All I’m saying is that it’s retarded to push clearly modern interpretations of premodernity. I am not arguing in the affirmative, but in the negative against the notion that strict post-agricultural sex roles can be translated easily into hunter-gatherer society.
yes, but isnt this in itself comming from a antithetical pov? isnt this stuck in overly dialectic thinking as im refering to here>>18079345
saying IS or ISNT, is very essentially getting caught in this trap of relationship with modernity. Being in this dialectic still keeps the supposed existence or non existence of a certain sexual dynamic the a prioi state of the thought experiment.

>>18079326
>it’s possible that this sex division predates civilization, sure. But we don’t know that it does.
yes, we do. Or at least we have very good evidence of it. And it is still observed today in modern hunter gather societies.
> it’s retarded to push clearly modern interpretations of premodernity
I agree, stop doing that. Your modern desire for gender equality is clouding your judgment.

>>18079362
Name one instance of this amazing theory of yours
>>18079326
>Things were less formalized
Get this through your thick head
These societies do not have a notion of unbelief
These people can't even conceive of doubting their modus operandi
They put modern formalisation to shame

>>18079362
If we return to our roots, women will be protected by their fathers, and when their father is out of their picture, their mate. Single women will perish, or they will form some all-female group that might occasionally catch a rodent or something.

>>18079392
>And it is still observed today in modern hunter gather societies.
there arent any

>>18079395
Name one instance of what? Women hunters? I don't need to, you already agreed they exist. Or what, examples of women killing abusive husbands? That never happened before?
Yes, most women will no doubt default to the subservient gatherer role, but to assume all women will seek a husband to hunt for them is absolute moronic IQ. You're discounting personality traits, abusive treatment and mental illness as reasons for why women may take up the hunter role for themselves, assuming everyone is subservient to environment.

>>18079400
Yes, that's what I said? Pay attention. Hunter women will exist, they won't be as good as men, but they will exist and most will die.

>>18079376
shit clicked on wrong reference, meant what i said >>18079346

>>18079231
This. Marx so completely oblitarated anarkiddies that they should be ashamed to call themselves anarchists

>>18079185
That was a TAZ. Temporary.
>>18079231
19 year old tankie who can’t cope detected.
>>18079244
>>18079263
Police are not for enforcing the law.

>>18079426
Catching a rodent is not hunting. Have you ever been hunting, and not just sitting in a tree stand with bait? Anecdotal, but I have never met nor have I ever heard of a female that is good at tracking down prey. It's not for lack of trying, they just do not see things the same way.

Catching a rodent to eat is not a hunter, and would not make a dominantly hunting society. An all-female sect would dominantly survive off agriculture.

>>18079453
>19 year old tankie who can’t cope detected.
Cope with what? An ‘insurrection’ LARP that got out of hand and killed two teenagers?

>>18079453
>That was a TAZ. Temporary.

Much like your life, which you have wasted here.

>>18079453
You're not real buttefly. You're an impostor and worse yet probably ESL

>>18079457
>Catching a rodent is not hunting.
trapping is a form of hunting

*executes black children*

>>18079426
>Hunter women will exist, they won't be as good as men, but they will exist and most will die.
ok, but what do you mean by “exist” as in a few outliers to a trend, or a naturalized minority. like as in terms of possibiliy its not mechanically impossible for a female to pick up a stick and hunt with it, but is it an important usual role? orwould it be seen as an oddity. I do tthink anyone is arguing likethe universe would prevent her from picking up the stick, but is it a norm, or would society fall along minor specialization and norms. and social roles.

>>18079156
Contemporary hardcore leftism is not a belief system known for it's coherence and internal consistency

About a third of women died in childbirth

>>18079474
I'm saying they'll be a prevelant minority that will exist if society broke down at this moment, one which would eventually reduce until they are mere oddities.

>>18079467
Proper trapping requires tracking, baiting, and being smart with traps with beasts that are somewhat smart. Rodents that are caught would likely be unintentionally lured in by food crumbs left over, grain improperly stored, and most likely left dead and half eaten. At the same time, killing a rat with a rat-trap is not hunting, nor is it proper trapping. It's basic baiting.

>>18079175
You sound just like a communist I know in real life. People like you should be rounded up and killed. It’s just too much work to keep you alive. People like you contribute to the destruction of society, and it is the authority of every ordinary person to kill people like you.

>>18079453
>Police are not for enforcing the law.
Sure, but you would think that arresting anarchists would be well within their function.

>>18079362
Everyone ITT should read this:
https://beel.la.psu.edu/documents/human-sexual-selection.pdf

Basically, women hold almost no power in hunter gatherer societies and were forced by men into marriage and sex.

>>18079405
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about it you are disputing facts that could be found with a simple web search.
>>18079500
assumed that post was satire or bait

>>18079460
Socialism shadows capitalism and has had to deal with one form of it or another. It’s diminished here, but thrives everywhere anyway. Will China crush them or the fascists who want control of the US nukes?

>>18079461
What a silly post. Are you suicidal?

>>18079503
And so they do. Especially for using their First Amendment tights. They especially love to put liquid pepper spray into teen girls eyes

>>18079322
I like Ian as a person, but it is a little disappointing for him to be open about his views in this manner.

>>18079534
>First Amendment tights
Hahahah *rights. What the hell

>>18079534
>They especially love to put liquid pepper spray into teen girls eyes

Yeah, that does suck. They should just use bullets, instead. I agree.

>>18079493
you sound salty changing definitions willy nilly

>>18079534
>And so they do. Especially for using their First Amendment tights. They especially love to put liquid pepper spray into teen girls eyes
The strategic use of rioting by the left and the strategic exploration of the protest-riot false dichotomy makes it impossible for any assembling they do to be peaceable.

>>18079491
i would say that is likely, but again I think that is simply a statement of obvious operative capacity that is only necessary to bring to light contextually rather than as an essentiality. Needing to clarify it means that you are probably coming from a stance of opposition rather than simple exploration. That means you have too assume an opositionary stance beforehand. making it a rhetorical/confrontational device rather than didactic or wholistic one. the purpose being dismantling rather than refining.

>>18079553
>changing definitions
Sorry, it's further explaining my point. Would you call a housewife setting a mousetrap a hunter? I sure as shit wouldn't.

>>18079576
^This statement is 100% bullshit

>>18079156
>>18079173
>>18079175
>>18079185
>>18079225
>>18079231
>>18079238
>>18079242
>>etc. etc.

back to /leftypol/ you go

>>18079627
Even Hitler knew that violence was not the key to gain power. He learned this with the Beer Hall Putsch. Some day the rioters might become more civil(Good luck with Ape-like and Ape-minded creatures becoming organized). Some day the protestors might actually try to get democratically elected. I do not think we will see it.

You ever notice how no books ever get recommended in these threads? Don't you people have /pol/ for this shit?

>>18079673
Then give us a /phi/losophy board where we discus political theory rather than the cesspool that /pol/ is.

>>18079686
If "we can't discuss this topic in the right board because that board is a dump" is an argument then we definitely need a new /lit/.

>>18079627
Broader leftist strategy makes puts any of their organizing outside the bounds of the first amendment. Such is the kind of bullshit you deserve if you're an anarchist looking for the law to cover your behavior.

>>18079696
>definitely need a new /lit/.
Hence why I suggest a /phi/, that way /lit/ can only be about books. /pol/ is too fast, too much of a cesspool, and has far too many mental midgets to actually comprehend philosophy and ideologies while maintaining a reasonable demeanor for discussion. Not to say that we don't have retards on /lit/, but it's far less than /pol/.

>>18079673
The poltards swoop in and proceed to sidetrack. Plenty of these threads have books recommended though.
Is OP serious? One can never tell if anyone is ever serious. But we all know pol is 100% not the place to discuss anything left of Alex Jones

>>18079673
maybe because arguments while prompted by books, do not necessitate quotations from books.
like, I could have just dropped hegel or whatever here>>18079586
But whats the point?

>>18079703
>If you don’t want the choice of Trump/Biden, you deserve to rot in jail and have all your citizenry rights taken away.
Why so fascist? Anarchism is literally just direct democracy. There’s NOTHING in the founding documents about capitalism being sacred

>>18079729
>Why so fascist?
It's cool and fun

>>18079736
>>>/v/

Wouldn't an anarchist society be ruled solely by strength anyway? Unironic Nazis would actually thrive in anarchism because nothing would hold them back(Law, Religion, Cultural Norms, Need to put food on the plate and Pressure)

>>18079362
>Women can and WILL rebel and kill males and they will hunt on their lonesome if that is their predilection
even men pumped up with estrogen still shit on women LMFAO

>>18079714
>The poltards swoop in
this is you

>>18079755
organized crime would just take over like in those areas of mexico that used to have "ezln" or whatever but are now just controlled by cartels.

>>18079755
Muddy thinking. Fascism is a few goose steppers ordering, deluding, frightening the masses into submission. Statism ramped up to *eleven*.
The strength of a community that rejects that and takes control of their own lives isn’t going to raise any Hitlers and is going to be able to resist 20th century authoritarian idealism pretty easily.
If people take advantage of what they have inside as it is.

>>18079756
>Even men are men.

>>18079766
How new are you?

>>18079789
>Even men are men.
that's a woman you transphobic piece of shit

>>18079729
My problem isn't who you want to vote or not vote for, but the way in which the strategic use of violence as part of your broader movement precludes you from being capable of peaceable assembly.
>There’s NOTHING in the founding documents about capitalism being sacred
But there's plenty about direct democracy being evil.

>>18079789
>Fascism is a few goose steppers ordering, deluding, frightening the masses into submission.
Fascism begins with the willing submission, the blunt force trauma comes after for those who do not comply. The willful submission of a community binds a community to a nation. The entire premise being that you must elevate yourself to be able to take care of others. Start with yourself, then your neighbors, then your community, then your county, then your state, then your nation. End it at nation.

Fascism also requires racial purity and a single culture that everyone follows within a nation. And yet, Communism is still more totalitarian than Fascism.

Leftism does not work.

>>18079810
>he strategic use of violence
There’s no violence. Or do you unironically mourn the loss of windows?
> precludes you from being capable of peaceable assembly.
>George Washington never shot anyone!
You’re disingenuous.

> But there's plenty about direct democracy being evil
So, a classic bootlicker. A champion of the wealthy who are actively trying to thin his herd.
I hope you’re just trolling.

Anyway. Afk. Read a book, ass-hats

>>18079828
>Communism is
Something you don’t know one thing about

>>18079744
ngl, the simplicity of sensation is the ultimate sincerity. I would say anarchists like anarchy because it is cool and fun too in their own conception.

>>18079847
I know plenty about it, and have read enough on the subject. Why don't you back up your statement rather than just try to detract what I am saying because you think you know exactly, or the apparent lack thereof, what I know?

>>18079847
This faggot and князь Кpoпoткин are two greatest disgraces for the Russian nation
t. Russian

>>18079884
>nation
And I suppose you know communism as well as the above joker who reads liberal books on the subject

>>18079840
>A champion of the wealthy who are actively trying to thin his herd.
authorizing and defining an opposing stance so its safely false in your mind before the fact.
disagree with the other guy, but this line of thought is what makes a lot of intellectualism disingenuous.
how authoritarian.

This quote perfectly encapsulates the problem with anarchism; the anarchists themselves. They claim to be against oppression, hierarchies and whatnot, yet when they finally get their utopia, all these oppressive constructs suddenly reappear in a much worse form than under any state system.

>>18079840
Direct Democracy would be cool but you are all too retarded to be trusted with it.

>>18079913
not just a you problem butterfly btw.

>>18079904
You presuppose a lot of stuff buttefly. I've been observing your activity for a long time and I haven't seen you supply one (1) good argument in support of anything you say. Notice how you responded to the other anon. You could've actually made an effort to explain to him why he's mistaken in his unfavorable opinion about communism but instead you insinuated that he knows nothing and posted Bakunin.

>>18079927
The Soviets weren’t doing communism. Simple as.

Does butterfly ever tire of posting the same few books no one will read over and over while her every argument gets btfo’d?

>>18079904
Ah, so now you are ignoring me. That anon, however, is not incorrect to call Russia a nation. I am not going to talk down on you, butterfly. I will instead guide you to actual proper debate. You should actually provide something to let your points hold merit, rather than say the person who provides a counter knows nothing of the subject.

You calling that person ignorant of communism because he called Russia a nation, and you simply pointing out that a nationless, classless society that Communism supposedly(falsely) supports over the fact that the Russian Federation is indeed a Nation and was indeed a Nation before the USSR.

>>18079937
>it's not real communism!
The Soviets tried to practice 'real communism', but they failed because human nature won't allow 'real communism' to exist. The Chinese tried to practice 'real communism', but failed. North Korea tried to practice 'real communism', but also failed considering they require aid from their neighbors and are all starving to death save for their dictator.

Is this just a childish way of viewing anarchism? Isn't anarchism just the idea that you can live in small scale cooperatives rather than any lack of restraint on an individual

>>18079185
>they're making their own currency
Lmao

>>18079918
anarchists don't really want democracy though. in a Kropotkinian society "democracy" would be limited to deciding whether a commune should build a strawberry juice or orange juice factory. everything else would be encapsulated by a nebulous term of "human rights" and thus exempt from criticism and democratic debate. anarchists are useful idiots for the neoliberals and high priests of the Church of Human Rights. take a look at the birthplace of Western democracy in Athens. Athenians didn't develop a concept of human rights and any anarchist would be repelled by their democracy and yet it was the purest example of direct democracy ever attained. the only thinker that I know of who wants to implement actual democracy is Alain de Benoist

>>18079946
Arguing with her is like arguing with my mother. There's something about it that I find comforting.

>>18079156
Start with :
Discourse on Voluntary Servitude, La Boétie
Civil Disobedience, Thoreau
What is Property?, Proudhon
Das Kapital, Marx
The Conquest of Bread, Kropotkin
Anarchist Morality, Kropotkin
God and the State, Bakunin
The Ego and Its Own, Stirner

Then :
The Society of the Spectacle, Debord
Society Against the State, Clastres
Temporary Autonomous Zone, Hackim Bey
The Coming Insurrection, The Invisible Committee

If you can read French, absolutely everything that Michel Clouscard wrote, especially Critique du libéralisme libertaire and Néo‑fascisme et idéologie du désir.

A lot of anarchists don't fundamentally understand "anarchism" because they attempt to merge it with Marx's economic determinism. Anarchy is anything goes; the point in which we start, it is not a blueprint for the future. Unlike enlightenment humanism of Marx - anarchy rejects the sacredness of humanity.
>>18079468
The Black Panthers were a bunch of drug dealers that killed black people, yet, Stalinists uphold them. Its quite ironic. Even one of them later became a fucking republican lol

>>18079988
>Proudhon, Bakunin
Do anarchists still read this stuff? Rather based and redpilled of them

lol butters am I going to have to destroy you in ANOTHER debate? when will you learn?

>>18080155
I do and my fellow anarchists too.

>>18079156
Anarchists are cringe and a waste of time, read Marx, Lenin and Heidegger instead.

>>18080301
>read a bunch of people who's ideas include the worship of the state and legalized plundering
no thanks

>>18079156
I've always felt Bookchin was the place to start with anarchism, given his real influence over Kurds in Turkey and Syria

>>18080340
Bookchin's "anarchism" is just statism with a human face. The Kurds in Syria are mixture of Stalinist and liberal parties - I doubt their intentions are of anarchy.

>>18080333
Meanwhile China has raised millions of people out of poverty and is the biggest growing economy BTFO'ing the west and the rest of the world.

>>18080657
>Start off with Communism
>Everyone is starving
>Farmers tools all melted down to shit because government told them to
>Everyone starving and poor
>China reverts to quasi-capitalist economy
>Gets rich
It wasn't Communism that got China out of poverty, anon.

>>18080657
>china
>communist or even socialist

A working paper from the World Economic Forum stated that “China’s private sector - which has been revving up since the global financial crisis - is now serving as the main driver of China’s economic growth. The combination of numbers 60/70/80/90 are frequently used to describe the private sector’s contribution to the Chinese economy: they contribute 60% of China’s GDP, and are responsible for 70% of innovation, 80% of urban employment and provide 90% of new jobs. Private wealth is also responsible for 70% of investment and 90% of exports.” Today, China’s private sector contributes nearly two-thirds of the country’s growth and nine-tenths of new jobs, according to the All-China Federation of Industry and Commerce, an official business group.

>literally majority of their economy is private
>continues to liberalize every year
>country only started succeeding after this liberalization began
What a win for commie retards

>>18080657
>"We no longer know what socialism is, or how to get there" - Deng
>"It it is glorious to get rich!" - Deng
I wonder what changed for that to happen?

>>18079485
And like every second man on the hunt, on a raid or while being raided. Shit sucked.

>>18080356
>statism
subfreezing IQ

>>18080657
Wealth is nice, but I'm not a materialist. There's more to life than simply material wealth. Culture, art, poetry, language, romanticism, spiritualism, philosophy, the humanities, are the things that I value because they make life worth living. China has none of these things because they're all machine like ants and bugmen. The only thing China is good for is sweatshops,and example of what not to do - Marxism.

>>18079175
One thing I've learned is that you should never make your bait too subtle. You can literally start off with a sentence as absurd as "The only reason you want to misgender trans folks is because rich people own factories" and people will still respond. The reason is that most people are illiterate, they can't read. Instead they just scan posts for meme words that make them react in a certain way and respond to those feelings.

>>18080767
Yeah, statists do have subfreezing IQ. Imagine being not having the skills, intelligence, to persuade people to do what you want instead of using violence to get what you want. Communists are just smooth brained thugs with no ability to be unique or worth while.

>>18079949
It is however incorrect to call communism a nation.
You have misunderstood everything.

>>18079956
They tried to establish socialism. They did somethingorother state-socialism just like Europe and other “mixed” economies. No one achieves communism but anarchists, but they’re quickly compromised and quashed. Two major ones are still ongoing though. It’s not full communism of course.
Tankies want communist vanguard parties ruling everywhere before communism.
“It’s not real communism” is said because it’s true.

>>18080206
Who the hell are you? No one’s debated me.

>>18080340
Not a fair assessment. Both Bookchin and Öcalan’s concepts are modified vanguardism, and without a centralized government. It’s quite mature and open to modifications where needed. Kurds have to appease their surrounding statists as best they can

>>18080891
>It is however incorrect to call communism a nation.
He never called communism a nation
>It's not real communism
Every time real communism was attempted it always failed or morphed into something completely different. My whole point here is that Communism is a wasted ideology, particularly in a time where Nations and Ideologies have lost their identity. It is all about currency now. Thank the Jew.

>>18080672
You're just cringe man. Is just shows that you don't understand shit about economics or politics. You don't understand how global economy works and what the Capital is.

>>18080922
He who? Never mind. You aren’t listening to your lesson anyway. Beat it.

>all the world is bad cuz jew!

>>18080891
>They tried to establish socialism
This is called "the dictatorship of the proletariat" and it is a subject on which communists and anarchists disagree, indeed.

Leftists don't actually hold the convictions they espouse. It's just a means to exercise power in an attempt to alleviate their chronic low self esteem, depressive tendencies, and inferiority complexes created in part by their oversocialization. This is why they're constantly looking for new things to complain about, new people to bully, and new victims to identify with. Asking them for a rationalization for their behavior or beliefs is like trying to reason with a schizophrenic. Their psychological condition makes it almost impossible for them to recognize what they're doing.

>>18080944
You are all over the place, and yet you have a funny condescending tone reminiscent of a college student fresh out of Economics 101.
>all the world is bad
Never once did I say the world is bad, you have a nasty habit of putting words into people's mouths. I stated precisely what is going on in the world today, and that the Jew has a lot to do with it. Are you implying that I also hate our inevitable future of Globalism?

You should broaden your horizons and read something outside of your agenda, might help you.

>>18080967
It seems like you're describing the American "left". They are "leftists" in name only, because everything else is economic liberalism and censorship. They are supported by the biggest international firms and the big bourgeoisie, how can you say they are "leftists"? Are you stupid?

>>18080970
>a nasty habit of assuming anonymous means what he says

>>18081020
You know what happens when you assume.

>>18081029
Anonymous turns out to be trolling.
Or says it in order to save face.
Say something of vale to the thread. Endless bickering with rightwing ideologues is boring

>>18081040
>vale
Value.* There’s a glair on the screen

>>18081040
>Say something of value
>endless bickering
The entire thread I have made complete points against Communism, direct criticism. Yet you ignored all of my points.

>>18081052
You the guy who doesn’t know what it is?
Here, read this. Its nice.

>>18081080
I know exactly what it is, you just try to let books do the talking for you since you do not know how to defend any of your points.

>>18081123
I don’t know who you are, but I’m assuming you’re the guy who got it wrong. Restate your talking point and I’ll bat it down again if you want.
Every anonymous post is a new anonymous.
>Stop recommending books!
No.

>>18080993
Idiot

>>18081176
>bat it down again if you want
You never batted it down in the first place, you just responded to posts with a book. Recommend all you want, but you can't just post a book cover and expect that to satisfy as an answer.

>>18081190
He’s absolutely right though. Stamping your foot won’t do anything.

>>18081230
No, you’re going to have to take the initiative and read them

>>18081176
no one is telling you not to recommend books you senile, intellectually devoid hole, they're telling you that you are completely unable to actually defend any sort of ideas you put forward

on the topic of you recommending books though, its pretty hilarious that you think recommending books then demonstrating that they apparently taught you nothing within the same post is a good idea.

>>18081248
What. Defend what? The actual definition of communism as opposed to a liberal’s definition of it?

>>18081264
>Defend what
literally anything you have ever said

>>18079156
I used to love Marxism
I used to love Marxism. Even voted for Barney Sandals for communist president in the democratic primaries. I knew democracy was the only true path to a communist utopia. Like Marx said:

Killing people and destroying property solves nothing. Democracy is the only road to socialism.

Socialism is DEMOCRATIC control of the means of production. All you leftcoms in the comments are gonna be laughing it up, I know. Well fuck you, you fucking gatekeeping assholes. Who are you to decide who's a "true socialist"?

Used to read Marx daily. I must have scrolled through brainyquote.com reading ALL his quotes. Oh, I don't know what "human labor in the abstract" means WHO THE FUCK CARES. I don't know what "commodity production" means? Fuck off, you purists. Revolution isn't made by armchair theorists like you, sitting around all smug in your mom's basement nickpicking every little detail anyone gets wrong. It's made by DEMOCRACY when the PEOPLE come together and realize they can create something BETTER. A society created in our own image, THAT's what Marx was really fighting for. Assholes.

I started going down the wrong path. I started getting real deep into Marx, far down the rabbit hole. I found some works written by Marx, the really dark stuff. I started getting into his Theory of White Genocide. Quoted:

The White Man is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor he sucks.

I realized that the white man must be destroyed if we were to create a communist utopia. At that point I realized it was too great a cost to humanity, and realized my own path down insanity.

Started reading Mises, Hayek, Rothbard. The good guys. Learned about the sanctity of property. Learned about how to DEBUNK the labor theory of value with the mudpie argument. But most important of all, I learned baout INDIVIDUALISM and how Capitalism is really the best system for that.

I was like "Holy shit. When you get a job, you actually AGREED to sell your labor to him. Wild". Marx's arguments just fell apart.

But the nail in the coffin, for Marx? He forgot about human nature.

>>18081264
Can you put your finger in my asshole?

>>18079638
Did you even read my fucking post, you inane tool? I am clearly denouncing anprim and socialist groups.

>>18081277
Yet another citation of state-socialism not being communism.
All it takes is a little reading.

>>18081295
This but unironically (kind of)
Here's my neoliberal reading list

Neoliberalism: The Genesis of a Political Swearword
Neoliberalism: From New Liberal Philosophy to Anti-Liberal Slogan
Mirowski & Plehwe, The Road from Mont Pèlerin
Foucault, The Birth of Biopolitics
Friedman, Neo-Liberalism and its Prospects
Pirie, The Neoliberal Mind
Peters, A Neo-Liberal's Manifesto
Hobbes, Leviathan
Locke, Second Treatise on Government
Hume, Of the Original Contract
Rousseau, The Social Contract
Rousseau, Discourse on the Origins of Inequality
Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France
Kant, The Metaphysics of Morals, The Doctrine of Right
Kant, Perpetual Peace
Mill, On Liberty
Mill, The Subjugation of Women
Mill, Considerations on Representative Government
Hayek, The Road to Serfdom
Hayek, Law, Legislation and Liberty
Rawls, A Theory of Justice
Nozick, Anarchy, State, and Utopia
Sandel, Liberalism and the Limits of Justice
Sen, The Idea of Justice
Ripstein, Force and Freedom
Bull, Butterfield, and Waltz, Theories of International Politics
Mearsheimer, The Tragedy of Great Power Politics
Gellner, Nations and Nationalism
Scott, Seeing Like a State
Schelling, Arms and Influence
Waltz, Man, the State, and War
Kissinger, World Order and Diplomacy and On China
Levy and Thompson, Causes of War
Barnett, The Pentagon's New Map
Mack, Why Big Nations Lose Small Wars
Brzezinski, Strategic Vision
Strange, The Retreat of the State
Keohane, After Hegemony
Ikenberry, Liberal Leviathan: The Origins, Crisis, and Transformation of the American World Order
Nye, Understanding Global Conflict and Cooperation
Oatley, International Political Economy (IPE textbook)
Yergin, The Commanding Heights
Gilpin, The Political Economy of International Relations
Cohen, International Political Economy: An Intellectual History
Helleiner, States and the Reemergence of Global Finance

Economics
Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom
Friedman, Free to Choose
Galbraith, The Affluent Society
Galbraith, The New Industrial State
Galbraith, Economics and the Public Purpose
Polanyi, The Great Transformation
Economic Policy
Cowen and Tabarrok, Modern Principles (Econ principles textbook)
The macro block of Mishkin's monetary textbook (monetary policy)
Stiglitz, The Economics of the Public Sector (public finance textbook)
Sunstein, Simpler: The Future of Government
Cudd and Holmstrom, Capitalism, For and Against
Bernanke, The Courage to Act
Classics in International Trade and Finance
Cantillon, Essay on the Nature of Trade
Hume, "On the Balance of Trade" and "On the Balance of Payments"
Ricardo, Principles of Political Economy
International Trade and Finance

1/2
Stop falling for revolutionary propaganda

>>18081414
Krugman and Obstfeld, International Economics
Nye, War, Wine, and Taxes
Irwin, Against the Tide: An Intellectual History of Free Trade
Krugman, Pop Internationalism
Eichengreen, Globalizing Capital
Economic Growth: Big Picture
Diamond, Guns, Germs, and Steel (despite its many flaws, pre-req due to its influence)
de Soto, The Mystery of Capital
Acemoglu and Robinson, Why Nations Fail
Landes, The Wealth and Poverty of Nations
Gordon, The Rise and Fall of American Growth
Sen, Development as Freedom
Sachs, Common Wealth
Easterly, The White Man's Burden
Collier, The Bottom Billion
Duflo, Poor Economics
Nussbaum, Women and Human Development
2/2

Fuck revolutionaries

>>18081176
>>18081080
>>18081043
>>18081040
>>18079840
>>18079797
>>18079729
>>18079714
>>18079627

Most of these books are either debunked by my list or have the good parts integrated
Yes,I do like democracy.

If you really don't want to be brainwashed you need to listen to both sides,I did and found out that the situation in the world right now isn't as bad as revolutionaries or reactionaries make it seem

>>18081295
>Thread on anarchism
>Frog poster pretends to have been a Marxist
I was never a Marxist.


>>18081414
>>18081418
Nobody asked you, turd.

>>18081447
>Yes,I do like democracy.
Apparently not if you think some of those books are “debunked”. Take your own advice

>>18081461
I think that was a copypasta
He wasn't ''pretending to be a marxist'' or whatever
>>18081469
A lot of revolutionary and reactionary books make very wild claims,''the evidence'' for those claims isn't always linked to the ''conclusion''
Here's a extreme example,so you understand what I'm trying to explain better.
>50% of men diagnosed with lung cancer have a lighter in their pocket
>therefore having a lighter in your pocket increases the risk of lung cancer
While the information presented isn't false,the conclusion isn't linked,in reality it's smoking that increases the risk of lung cancer,not the lighter in your pocket
Even mentioning the lighter is useless,people do things like this are likely trying to ''blame'' the lighter for lung cancer,it's propaganda.

Here's two more
Angrist and Pischke, Mostly Harmless Econometrics
Hamilton Project, Policies to Address Poverty in America
These two are kind of related

>>18081527
I took it to be a copypasta which is why I questioned the veracity.

>>18081356
>>18081469
>>18081594
This is why this commie butters here needs to spit in my ass and peg me

Butters is the dumbest bitch on the planet. All she can do is say "no, that's not right" without providing anything more than the barest whiff of evidence in her favor.

>>18082096
She wont even peg me either, the fucking whore

>>18081295
You're either a liar or idiot.
>Even voted for Barney Sandals for communist president in the democratic primaries
>Bernie Sanders
>communist
>I was like "Holy shit. When you get a job, you actually AGREED to sell your labor to him. Wild".
Marx calls that alienation.

You didn't read shit, did you ?

>>18082194
Bro butters needs to peg u 2 u fell for the meem. Nobody thinks hes names barney sandals

>>18081414
>>18081418
Nice, confirmation bias at its best.

>>18081052
the « Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » guy is a retard, I never pay him any mind

>18082096
>I refuse to accept the global consensus that Butterfly references
>Liberal cold war propaganda is all I will ever accept.

>>18082194
I didn’t read it that far. Apparently a troll pasta

>>18082311
Are you gonna fucking peg >>18081771
or not so he can shut the fuck up

>>18082322

Im just gonna stick to the notion that you are all LARping and really bad at being funny.
No one can be this retarded. This entire thread is jsut pathetic and cringe.