/lit/ - Literature

In the miso soup is exactly what you are looking for

i dunno read the cloud atlas or some shit

plenty of suffering but still comf

>>18069392
I Am A Cat

You are also a fag

Oh, Anon, cheer up!

Smile!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBKI4PzW7rU

im not a weeb fag but some anon once described the endin of this show as some sort of higher being killing everyone and absorbing their life force or something. juding by that description i really dont know why that would be some mind bending masterclass ending that would make you cry and interfere with your life

>>18069443
It’s actually about isolation and depression lol

I can’t remember a single thing about NGE. It’s like I was half conscious when I watched through it

>>18069443
It's a bit more interesting than that.

Evangelion in general is probably some of the best anime has to offer in terms of being a work of art. This isn't to say it's perfect. I think it's a flawed masterpiece. But calling it a "masterpiece" is not inaccurate. It is a great achievement. It is amazing how striking and jawdropping it is, in so many ways.

>>18069392
How old are you OP?

>>18069443
The giant robots and Christian mysticism is really just window dressing for the deeper point on human interaction that the author wanted to make. Evangelion is notorious for being born out of a depressive period of the creator, but the show does do the audience the favor of making its primary point explicit in one of the middle episodes, if I remember right. It's about the Hedgehog's Dilemma, which is the idea that human interaction is inherently harmful and damaging to the individual, but the alternative of not having separate human egos interacting (and hurting) with each other is much worse. Basically the hell is other people, but the good times outweigh the bad times, if you just have the courage to go out and face your fellow man.

Yeah it fucked me up for one or two days, too. But I was a teenager. It can have high impact at that point of life.

>>18069484
i wanted to ask him the same thing, me and all my friends watched when we were little (im 28) and we thought its cool, but deeply profound.. idk. only zoomers can exeggirate like that

>>18069443
The show undergoes a thematic shift roughly halfway through that catches the watcher completely off-guard. It subtly inserts light existential philosophy into what appears to be a stereotypical mecha anime which increases in quantity, not necessarily quality, until it reaches a climax in the movie. The author inserted his depression and self-loathing into the characterization of the protagonist and this, coupled with the aforesaid philosophy, resonates with viewers that can sympathize–or people that it catches off guard–because it coalesces with a brilliant soundtrack by Shiro Sagisu, high-quality and soulful animation (a veritable sendoff to 90's cel animation), and unadulterated, unexpected tragedy: the director makes it his objective to impart his depression upon the viewer; yet, for some reason, shows us that there is always hope.

It resonates specifically well with the stereotypical self-loathing teenager and is, realistically, the best the genre has to offer. It's objectively aesthetic if slightly pretentious. Whether or not it is substantial is, of course, up to you; I found it, despite largely disliking anime, interesting and without a contemporary western equivalent.

>>18069515
if you look at it plainly, it just shows that japanese people are oppressing their feelings and what it can do to people over generations.

there was a great summary of this i read somewhere and it was spot on

It all returns to nothing.

It all comes tumbling down.

>>18069559
In a situation like this, which [Donut] would anon eat? I like Rei's more but since Asuka is an insecure bitch she would run to her room crying if you choose not to eat her [Donut], but instead eat Rei [Donut]

>>18069443
>some sort of higher being
no, the point is it's literally the protagonist who makes the decision to end all human life. It's really uncomparable to any other movie, watch it

>>18069511
You have a cruel insensetive heart, and also shit taste

>>18069392
It's exactly what contemporary people want, to feel perplexed and moved by sensual dazzlement, crossing "boundaries" and seeming to pose some hidden truth.

It's a cartoon, a well made on but still a cartoon, and that's only presupposing you can look past all the "anime-ish" stuff in it.

Grow the fuck up, if you've never a read a book that has moved you more than that, or even as much, then you haven't read any good books.

>>18070097
Try actually watching it instead skimming through the wikipedia page

>>18070097
Name a deeper or more emotional book than nge from after 1900

>>18069443
I watched it and was mostly underwhelmed. Everyone brings up the hedgehog's dilemma, which only a teenager could find as being "deep". If you unironocally find this cartoon relatable, it's because you're a child. There's nothing to "get". It's nothing more than surface level philosophy with super cool fighting robots as the main focus. It's zoids for brainlet faggots who can't build badass automatrons.

>>18070128
Weak bait

>>18070118
The master and margarita
Blood Meridian
Pynchon (take your pick)
Infinite Jest
Mein Kampf

The usual suspects

>>18070134
So you're going to call it bait rather than refute the argument that only a teenager (or someone with the mind of a teenager) would find the idea that you can't interact without hurting someone, "deep". I say this because I developed the notion myself as a teenager, and got over it soon after by recognising that if you're not a faggot you don't have this narcissistic attitude which thinks "AAAAA LITERALLY EVERYTHING I DO IS THE MAIN THING THAT HAPPENS IN OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES, THEY DEFINITELY SPEND HOURS THINKING ABOUT HOW I INTERACT WITH THEM". And what, you're going to say "b-b-but everyone has a different idea of who you are as a person!". Yeah, no shit, people who don't have every single one of your actions justified don't know you the same way you do. Fame is a spook, we already knew this, it's not necessarily bad to explore this theme but it's not like the cartoon brings anything new to the table.

>>18070167
Boring and unoriginal shitposting, fuck off

>>18070167
>The master and margarita
>Blood Meridian
>Pynchon (take your pick)
>Infinite Jest
>Mein Kampf
>The usual suspects
None of these has emotional moments stronger than nge, also none contains any particular philosophical message

>>18069400
u sly mf haha

>>18070180
With an exception of Master and Margarita, it's basically reddit midwit starterpack

>>18070175
Do not seethe
just refute it

simple :)

>>18070118
The Magic Mountain?
The Waves?
Sound and the Fury?
In Search of Lost Time?
Ivan Denisovitch?
One Hundred Years of Solitude?
Fuck, if you wanted to play the highbrow card without sounding plebian you could have just said since 1990, or whenever NGE came out.

>>18069392
OP, it's all okay. If you want something tame and comforting, The Nakano Thrift Shop is almost offensively low stakes and chill. An Artist of the Floating World is a little sadder, but a better book.

>>18069392
yeah i watched it when i was 15/16 and wanted to kill myself, then a few months later i watched Cowboy Bebop and Taxi Driver, because of these i started lifting and my life become more purposeful again

>>18069392
Anon, this is what good art does to you. Stay with those feelings. You can experience them safely as a consequence of aesthetic contemplation, instead of living them directly.

>>18070110
I've watched the series and EOE, it was good for a cartoon. At best it is an imitation of (those, i.e. real artists and thinkers,) capturing the subtleties of social experiences, dreams, fantasies, insecurities, psychotic breaks and metaphysical questions; but all in all, a lot of it is just sensual impressions made by the animation, colour and music, which stick with, but aren't actually all that deep, just a well made anime. The so called higher meaning it is practically just decadent literature without the high culture.

And I haven't even talked about its flaws and stupidities, where all this is incarnated into. You guys act as if it's a real work of high art.

>>18070118
Too many to say, but to appeal to your weeb tastes, anything by Mishima.

>>18069392
Ofcourse a fuckin' frogposter who's creatively and mentally a sheep would be affected so much by an anime.

>>18070293
NGE is the true successor to actual great literary epics which went missing during the 1800s and throughout the 1900s after the last great authors died (foscolo for example) and new authors started to incorporate meaningless attempts at philosophy into their work which most of the time were just constantly spouting the same obvious thoughts and le critique against consumerism, essentially positioning themselves above society as a whole, see "pretentiousness". Nge is the true successor to the canon of western fiction, even if it's japanese

>>18069515
You should read more

>>18070293
>a lot of it is just sensual impressions made by the animation, colour and music, which stick with
Let me guess, Leonardo Da Vinci and Salvador Dalí are also 'just sensual impressions of color', because who dares any artistic medium outside of written texts to exist?

>>18070327
No other post could have so perfectly explained what NGE is not. Name one thing, of any category or variety in NGE that allows it to even be compared with the classics, it's all just pretence of depth for modern entertainment anon.

>1800s
Lol what are you talking about? I think you mean the latter half of the 1900's century. Not until then did art show a decline in its potential.

>>18070167
There's no argument except you think you're above it and anyone who likes it it stupid. Your entire post is an example of the hedgehogs dilemma. The show is right about basically everything, the only problem is that it's an anime that teenagers like that has a quick expiry date in being a useful tool for interacting with niche's filled with people who prioritize information by how obscure it is.

>>18070073
cruel? because i dont think it was deeply profound? bad taste for thinking a mainstream anime is good but thats all?

arent you overreacting to my passive post?
you were born after 2005 right facebook kid?

>>18070346
No, because Da Vinci isn't just drawing a few squiggly lines and colouring it in, or animating those, or playing music to that to create a further effect when watching the animation.

You have to understand the fundamentally technological character which modern cinema and animation has brought.

Is there any visual media that brainwashes the viewer into not being a mental wreck who dwells in the past?
I can't move on from anything

>>18070383
And so? Cinema is not a valid artistic medium equal to others?
Okay it's your opinion that you dislike anime and yknow neither do I.
However what do you have against cinema? Have you watched Robert Bresson?

>>18070410
>animation is equal cinema
LOL. Cinema has its place among the fine arts (though it's not an equal to them, it has an inimitable value which borders on technological use more than any of the other arts), animation doesn't.

>Have you watched Robert Bresson?
Yes anon, I have, but you could have named anyone.

>>18070360
Not art as a whole, not even literature as a whole, but again, from the peak of romanticism onwards (say 1830), the biggest works of literature couldn't ever reach the level of previous classics. The 1900s made this obvious, with every classic being a regurgitation of "society bad" (exceptions would be like joyce's ulysses). In a way that could be compared to literary works (so excluding, for example, aesthetic quality), nge takes from the classic canon (for example petrarch's secretum) more than it takes from for example nietzsche, even if a surface level observation would lead one to believe that. Nge doesn't feature shallow societal critique, nor does it limit itself to represent or go against a certain political idea. Instead, it develops what alfieri and goethe started but following authors left unfinished: exploration of the psyche, the contrast between thought and reality, deconstruction of classical mythology.....

>>18070407
Depends on how much media you consume. probably cut down on it before it consumes you’re mind
No media will help only you can. There is no point in dwelling on time passed you will never get it back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQzxcF1GCWs

>>18070407
consume art with a different perspective, indie video games are probably a good start to deal with this specifically as they tend to have themes of choice and interactivity that are unique to the medium.

>>18069392
based>>18069392

>>18070484
>with every classic being a regurgitation of "society bad"
Anon, stop pretending as if you know what you're talking about. The fact that you use Joyce as an example of an exception only shows that you don't know your history but you have a bit of a /lit/ education. I suppose you think the countless poets of the 20th century were just whining about how bad modern life is?

>Instead, it develops what alfieri and goethe started but following authors left unfinished: exploration of the psyche, the contrast between thought and reality, deconstruction of classical mythology.....
Completely retarded. This is just what a bad reading of Jung does. The only credence of truth I could possibly give to your entire post is recognising some basic tenants of modern belief, but you're conflating those now low-culture and implicit ideas for many, with actual creative originality and productivity. Let alone a learned connection between NGE and prior artists. And these vague definitions, they show nothing, the "exploration of the psyche" could many anything, and certainly means nothing in the case of NGE. You have a supremely shallow understanding of art, and Western history. But please tell me, what exactly does NGE show?

>>18070167
>Mein Kampf

>>18070601
>I suppose you think the countless poets of the 20th century were just whining about how bad modern life is?
Not him but unironically yes and the 1900s ruined literature

>>18070308
Just try to watch it, even as meme. It's nothing like any other anime, even 'acclaimed' ones. So-called anime classics like idk bebop or whatever are still cartoons. Nge is just... something absolutely else. Give it a try, even if you've never watched any anime in your life

>>18069392
grow up
Thats what I did

>>18069443
>my half remembered inaccurate interpretation of a movie I haven't seen sounds bad so therefore the movie must be bad

>>18070681
90% of English-speaking web

I like NGE, but I commend Cowboy Bebop's metanarrative and use of its structure. It interweaving both plot and episodic modes of storytelling makes the end more impactful imo. Its sparseness both in story telling and exposition triggers your imagination faculties and will leave you longing for more. Moreover, it encapsulates the hedgehog dilemma as well, putting them all on the ship, not getting along very well, but still pulling through and needing each other. With the needed comedic relief of Ed, the charms of Spike, the stoicism of Jet, and the feline hotness of Faye, you have a varied cast of people each with their past and future, without going too much into the abstract. CB focuses more on the emotional realism of existence, while NGE seems to be skirting around absurdity and/or nihilism (can someone tell?).

I think it draws a stronger image of interpersonal emotional issues and historical trauma and how they weave together. Like the irony of Spike's past juxtaposed to that of Jet. NGE is almost solely focused on the current turmoil of the characters, but there is little depth in the past and how it relates to the current actions of the characters, because their agency is taken away due to them manning the robots. Of course the two animes are different, but Bebop does provide a beautiful look into related emotional questions, so in the end they do complement each other.

NGE has obv issues with its later episodes of course. Some episodes are filler (CB has that as well). CB asks more questions, but leaves them to the viewer to answer. Maybe as some sort of meta-narrative rhetorical device? On the other hand NGE asks only a few questions, but dives deep into it to the point of nihilism or absurdity. NGE is focused on the rehabilitation of Shinji, by forcing him to confront the past. Spike's rehabilitation is him letting go and accepting the past. They are both beautiful and would definitely vouch for Cowboy Bebop. It's one of the most gripping animes ever.

>bro what if people defined their identities by the differences between themselves and others and thus interpersonal communication is good
woah

>>18070728
>Philosophy and social commentary are the only attribute upon which work of art value should be measured
You are cancer

>>18070847
It's just so deep, man. I would have never been open to these thoughts if they had not been mediated to me by teenage cartoon characters.

>>18070128
I watched it when I was 16 and stoned as a motherfucker and yeah man postmodernism and subjective identity based upon your perception by others and shit whoa dude

>>18070167
>Mein Kampf
LMAO
>The usual suspects
Decent film lots of spoilers

>>18070167
>Mein Kampf

>>18070128
I watched it as a teenager and found it extremely uninteresting so I never finished it. When I watched it a few years later I surprisingly loved it. If that means I've grown up to be more childish then so be it because I used to be a self-loathing miserable teenager with a stick up his ass.

>>18070867
You need a balance anon.

>>18070700
Gotta watch this one again.

>>18070547
>themes of choice and interactivity that are unique to the medium
Listen and hear young fellow here's where you're wrong there were or possibly still are books which had choose your own adventure and you had other ones which were pen and paper rpg novels with character sheets and dice rolls my Grandmother bought me one about Scottish Highland people during the second Jacobite Rebellion and my first character died gloriously on a field in battle against the hated English.

I saw it and it made me really uplifted and inspired for a few days, I had a positive reaction. The rejection of conformity indicated by Shinji and Asuka's rejection of instrumentality for life with all its fault was a very optimistic message for me.

>>18070239
Is Kazuo Ishiguro style closer to modern Japanese novelists or does he feel British?

>>18070942
The ending is mind bending and can be interpreted in many ways, and it's really easy to perceive it as a bad ending.

>>18069559
Has anybody ever sent this to Anno?

>>18070865
people that make fun of EVA for not being deep are unironically midwits , they didn't get what they were supposed to see, because they can't see it
and it's not depth

>>18069392
grow up

its beacuse evangelion is about the japanse version of chan that 4chan is based on and they literally gassed a subway and all got hung.

>>18069443
Do you know the concept of apocalypse? If apocalypse doesn't make you feel shit, you're probably not white and dumb

>>18071929
I'm not making fun of Eva, I'm making fun of you.

>>18072069
that was my first post on the thread,so no

>>18071929
And yet no one can give a single reason why EVA is deep. Curious.

>>18072079
Do you think I care? I can't know who anyone I'm responding to is as we are anonymous. I'm talking about people like you, your pathetic ilk. So yes I am making fun of you even if you did not post previously.

Muh hedgehogs dilemma.

Eva had two target audiences. 1) children who would be watching it for robots, and 2) otaku who are going to watch a robot cartoon. The message of the show targeted at the latter group to explain why their lifestyle is harmful and to tell them to get over it and go talk to people. If you're a westerner watching it, you aren't the intended viewer in any sense, so the message will probably be lost on you and you'll think it's some kind of deep philosophical bullshit.

Read Gnosticism

>>18072136
also inb4 it's not a children's show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGJ_Kq8qifQ

>>18071929
Just boring trolls. I really doubt anybody on fucking 4chan unironically looks down on anime. Also imagine not being moved by a slighest bit when watching nge, how dull and unfeeling your personality must be.

>what if otaku bad

If nge were a french novel from 1922 titled La Nouvelle Genesis about ww1 from the point of view of a french guy from a poor family named Augustin Jacquinot who works in a weapon factory /lit/ would be masturbating over it

>>18072317
That's weird how if you make a children's cartoon to express your ideas people won't take it as seriously as a proper artistic medium.

>Q
>all the way back in 2012
what the fuck did Anno mean by this

>>18072317
But what about MUB SCOIAL COMMENTARINOS

>>18070700
Spike never lets go and he never accepts that it is over. They wrote a ballad about it.

>>18072341
>Masturbation
>Gore
>Psychoanalysis references

>>18070184
funny that you say that because it's /lit/core

>>18072382
all normal for Japanese cartoons aimed at children

>>18072150
It aired on Toonami in the US - it's a children's cartoon. The segment you linked is interesting, Anno's mechanical interests stress his inability to actually delineate anything meaningful in his work. That sad semi-autism probably resonates with the peripheral (otaku) demographic, but it's still just a shallow skein.

>>18072348
Just add 200 pages about how "le state should give things to me not me give things to state!!!!"

>>18072408
>muh weird inscrutable Orient

>>18072456
It's very scrutable, but is it becile?

>>18072443
Bottom text

>>18072456
There's nothing inscrutable about Japanese cultural autism. They filled children cartoons with garbage since Tezuka.

>>18072110
retard detected

>>18072150
EoE is a children's movie

>>18072317
GR is part of the meme trilogy

>>18072497
Yeah it is. Why wouldn't it be?

>>18072508
probably all the hardcore sexual imagery

>>18072497
I have a strong feeling you're actually one single person and you've been spamming this thread with the same boring 'it's for CHILDREN' posts over and over for hours already

>>18072519
Japan has a legal industry for pseudo child pornography called "junior idols." They don't care about protecting children from things like that.

>>18072526
Show me another children's cartoon in japan where a Junior idol is fingerbanged by her guardian I'll wait

>>18072536
I don't need to show you anything. Japan doesn't care about children being sexualized and abused. But you think they're going to get upset because a movie had an offscreen masturbation scene.

>>18072519
The 'hardcore' sexual imagery is banal - Shinji masturbating, the many phalli, the Lilith/Rei vaginas...none of it is 'mature' in context (see Article 175). The inclusion of this imagery doesn't confer or establish 'maturity,' it's just childish symbolism. Steven Universe does the same shit on a smaller scale, it's not 'deep' there, either.

>>18072504
GR is actually way less deep than nge
>bro atomic bombs are like very powerful

>>18072567
you need to stop making virginity your personality trait. once it stops being a part of you you'll have a chance at losing it.
just stop thinking about it. think about books, about your job, about the weather, about politics - anything. by thinking about being a virgin you incrementally become one.

>>18072584
Is this the message of Evangelion?

>>18069537
sauce on the summary would like to read it

>>18072567
you kinda do if you want to argue your point :)

>>18072597
I don't, because I don't care whether you acknowledge that I'm correct.

>>18072594
more or less

Rewatch it with me op, this would be my third time

>>18070407
Your whole attitude and approach to the problem seems wrong already. There's no magic button to fix things like this. It takes work. Life is work, both mental and physical. If you're looking for the solution; look in the mirror and you'll find it staring right back at you.

Considering this is /lit/, you might find some literature helpful on your journey. But it's not a fix, it's a tool. Personally, and apt to this thread, I've found Jung quite helpful, but opinions differ.

>>18072491
Explain.

>>18072522
I'm not the anon you're replying to.

>>18070700
He was out of control the entire time.

>>18072343
Foreshafowing for Qensuke'd

>>18073112
Not canon.

>>18069515
what is this halfway through meme? all the themes that literally ever show up in this show are present in the first few episodes. And yet its accepted as fact that the show only becomes philosophical in its 2nd half. I feel as if people were legitimately not paying attention to the show and can't pick up on basic philosophy without the show becoming full on surrealist

jesus christ i hate weebs

>>18072136
we relate to it because we're loser weebs. the message of the show speaks to us as well

>>18073433
It happens in the last movie bro

>>18070128
this

>>18073577
That really sucks.

>>18069443
it's all a metaphore for the protagonist being a shy introverted loser, which is why it hits so hard with this website userbase

>>18070728
well that shit is enlightening for 14 years autist, the demographic that resonates the most to the show

>>18072443
We should write The Ultimate Fedora novel which is going to include all types of cancer that has been eating /lit/ since we've been exposured to reddit back in 2016.
Ideas(TM) as the only thing that matters in literature, disregard for the quality of prose, lolbertarianism, ignorance regarding non-European cultures, unironically bringing up Jordan Peterson, mentioning 'existential' at least once in 3 sentences, mixing up philosophy and art, what else?

>>18069392
I recently watched this too for the first time

Pretty good plot, I wish there were more books like it

>>18070128
Partially true

I watched it in my late 20's and found it childish yet interesting and memorable for what it is

>people who think NGE is about "getting it" or not getting it

>>18069392
Reported for being off topic.

>>18073846
welcome to /lit/ where everything is an IQ test

NGE changed my life in 2006 when I was 15yo. Since then I've tried to find more good anime but my efforts have been fruitless. It truly is something unique.

>>18074085
nhk

Asuka > Rei
That is all

>>18069392
find you a "Iyashikei" anime. It literally means "healing" slice of life. Distinct from moe (cute girls doing cute things), Iyashikei is relaxing and soothing. I recommend Aria, Non Non Biyori, Yuru Camp or Mushishi or Nastume... if you require a little bit more plot in your SoL.

>>18074197
I never could get into Aria. I did love Non Non Biyori and Yuru Camp. I recommend checking out Sketchbook Full Color's, Encouragement of Climb, Polar Bear's Cafe, Rokuhoudou Yotsuiro Biyori, and Binchou-tan. Also, My Next Life as a Villainess is great even though it's not Iyashikei. It does have elements of slice of life and good artwork.

>>18069392
Don't think much about it anon, you're just underaged.

>>18074197
Real talk, why do I hate this sort of anime? It makes me uneasy and disturbs my soul, as if I can't handle it. I prefer gruesome and often ''realistic'' anime that portray life as a harsh environment to overcome. Brutal stuff puts me at ease because it doesn't defy expectations, while SoL makes me agitated and nervous. Am I just irreparably fucked?

>>18074254
Because you are cursed by Ahriman. You must be purified immediately. If it were up to me, I would lock you inside a cage and whip you as you're forced to read classic children's literature like Wind in the Willows. This is the only way to drive away your demons. You MUST be purified immediately lest you become like MALDOROR. Pic related is your future if you do not get PURIFIED soon.

>>18072136
Based

>>18072136
>>18072150
Nothing wrong with children's artwork, dumbass. Grow up.

>>18074354
This. Alice in Wonderland is better than 99% of novels.

>>18069392
Iktf anon
>>18069443
There is like an hour of psychedelic introspection and ego disintegration that is done incredibly honestly and meaningfully. Flashing images and thought loops that are somehow deeply moving and terrifying at the same time. especially when you are emotionally invested in the characters. It gets closer to touching what human nature is in a tangible way than anything else I have seen.

>>18069392
Okay, come back to me when you've watched Ashita no Joe

>>18074374
The British have the best children's literature.
Germans have a couple of good ones too.
The French on the other hand seem like a cursed people to me.

>>18072136
Its message is obviously more universal than that. I don’t doubt some of it is lost on westerners, but you could apply that to anything.

>>18074385
>There is like an hour of psychedelic introspection and ego disintegration that is done incredibly honestly and meaningfully. Flashing images and thought loops that are somehow deeply moving and terrifying at the same time. especially when you are emotionally invested in the characters. It gets closer to touching what human nature is in a tangible way than anything else I have seen.
It reminded me of the ending of Steppenwolf a little bit. I wonder is he was inspired by it.

>>18072343
QAnno-n?

I'm reading that Otaku: Database Animals non-fiction book and uhh Azuma just seems way off about Evangelion. In talking about post-modernity and the death of grand narratives he cites Gundam as a franchise in which fans narrative consumption is strongly driven by a desire for a grand narrative across works following the time-lines, lore, mechanical details etc whereas he characterizes Evangelion's fans as unconcerned with the entire world of Eva

>Instead they focused exclusively on the settings and character designs as objects for excessive interpretation or “reading up” (exemplified in derivative works), and for chara - moe. For them, a grand narrative or fiction with a Gundam-style world was no longer desirable, even as a fantasy. Gundam fans’ extraordinary adherence to the consistency of the timeline of the “space century” or to mechanical reality is well known. By contrast, many Evangelion fans required settings to empathize with the story’s protagonist, to draw erotic illustrations of the heroine, and to build enormous robot figures, and showed obsessive interest in data to that extent, but beyond that they seldom immersed themselves into the world of the works

>Many consumers of Evangelion neither appreciate a complete anime as a work (in the traditional mode of consumption) nor consume a worldview in the background as in Gundam (in narrative consumption): from the beginning they need only nonnarratives or information.

I guess he's evaluating this based on EVA's transformation into a simulacrum juggernaut of derivative licensing and merchandizing consumption but isn't this also the case with Gundam?

>>18069392
Nobody would give a fucking fuck about anything anime if they didn't pack it with waifus. Literally the only reason why you bothered to watch neogay evangay is that you saw whores in it. Without this detail you would not have given it a single look, not a second of your time in your whole life. This is the power that pussy has over you, you see pussy and then not only you consoom, you ruminate about this two-bit shitstain of a work until it looks like some kind of masterpiece. I hate weebs.

>>18074798
>he didn't watch for the giant robot fights
nice projection simp

>>18074800
No you didn't or you'd put it along Mazinger or Gundam, which ngefags never do. You watch it for the whores.

>>18069392
Sorry about that, bro. But avoid the rebuilds at all costs.

>>18074778
like, I guess he would know the Japanese fan base back then better than me and maybe they were all brain dead coomers but in my experience EVA fans are very autistic about the total work mythology and details of it's thematic grand narrative

>>18074812
>whores
its a drawing

>>18070407
I wish i could do that as wel!!!

>>18070407
i wish i could do that as well anon!!

>>18074778
Most anime scholarship is more about jerking off to French theory than anime itself.

>>18070407
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Media is inherently escapist, you can’t be following the escape route while strengthening yourself towards battle.

>>18069392
People will shit on you OP but I felt the same way. I'm 28 and Eva still effects me when I hear music from it or see scenes.

I'm probably just a man child but I really do hold that series dear to my heart as like you nothing else in fiction has hit me in all the right spots like Eva did.

>>18073466
I felt like the themes were prominent in the first few episodes, but after that the early-mid episodes were mainly Shinji and Friends Fight the Monster of the Week.

>>18075001
>Eva still effects me
It has "effected" you with brain damage.

>>18075036
No I was bad with grammar before Eva. I'm just retarded.

>>18073466
There is a difference between a theme showing up and attempts to explicitly grapple with and form conclusions based on these themes. “themes” like this are not rare, but it is rare for media to become self aware enough that the theme becomes a focal point. The “themes” are extremely low resolution in the early episodes compared to the episodes later on.

>>18069559

>>18069443
It's all the despair and the last line of dialogue.

How do you grow up from being 14 years old?

>>18069559
Not a post worth screen capping

Can someone explain to me what is so sad about it? I just watched a plot summary and i don't get it.
>inb4 watch it
Only if you explain why it's so devastating

>>18069392
you should read Goodnight Punpun, do it fast before you get spoilered

Eva produces surprisingly great written fan content. I've read a decent amount of fanfics, greentexts, and posts telling stories in the Evangelion universe, and many of them are quite good.

>I can't remember a single work of art which disturbed me THAT much and had caused similiarly devastating emotional response.
Anyone saying "muh read better books" is a confirmed pseud. Literature is not capable of (and doesn't aim to) causing visceral emotional response in the audience in the same way as audiovisual media, period.

>>18076323
>doesn't understand drama

>>18076323
>hasn't cried for Ilyushechka

>>18076327
If you read a book and then watch a faithful adaptation, even if the adaptation is artistically inferior in evey way, the film will cause a higher emotional response in you.
Saying you can react to written words in the same intensity as you react to people's body/face expressions and voices is simply a flat out lie.

>>18076352
>the film will cause a higher emotional response in you.
You're a brainlet anon.

>>18069392
I've seen it like three times and still couldn't find anything special or truly artistic about it. Probably I got filtered.
I recently started reading way more philosophy, should I give it another try?

>>18076452
assuming you finished it then no, you're probably just too old or well-adjusted

>>18076438
You must have autism thus can't interpret people's emotional cues then

>>18076459
Imagine thinking Oedipus at Colonus isn't more emotionally moving than any movie ever made.

>>18076477
>thinking
It doesn't matter what you THINK it's more emotionally moving, but what actually moves your emotions. And human audiovisual expression will always move you more than words.

>>18076490
You have an extremely shallow understanding of emotion, which I gather you think is scientific.

You're not even trying to think, you're just flat out saying any film will be more emotionally moving than every work of literature. Or at least that's one possible interpretation of what you're saying which you probably haven't even thought through.

This is what happens when mental children try to think.

>>18076490
Also, drama is an "audiovisual" experience, somehow this went over your head.

>>18076352
It's not true from my own experience with the red wedding.

>>18076530
>you're just flat out saying any film will be more emotionally moving than every work of literature.
Yes anon, i mean that Son of the Mask is a more emotionally touching piece of media than every work of literature ever created just becsuse it's audiovisual and that's a completely reasonable interpretation of what i said.

OP, you should watch Midori. It's the most comfiest, uplifting anime I've ever seen.

Full name is, "Chika Gentō Gekiga: Shōjo Tsubaki"

No peice of media has moved me as much as this. Brothers Karamazov came close tho. It’s strange because I really can’t put my finger on my it moved me as much as it did, considering that I found the philosophical ideas to be surface level and childish to the point where I visibly cringed. I felt like it tried way too hard to be profound. Despite that it had this almost magical essence to it that seeped into my core and moved me. An indescribable feeling.. so strange almost frustrating

>>18076552
>If you read a book and then watch a faithful adaptation, even if the adaptation is artistically inferior in every way, the film will cause a higher emotional response in you.
This is just lazy thinking anon.

>>18076304
Just watch it

>>18069392
>>>/a/

>>18069392
the ending of evangelion is not supposed to leave you only with horror or sadness.

eva ends as an affirmation of life, one that vindicates the unavoidable suffering of life by recognizing the beauty that comes in the limitations of human connection.

the entire show is building up and painting a picture of the horror you describe, making the person watching feel as if they are strapped to a train about to crash into the brick wall that is the idea that life is a tragic and terrifying affair that is not worth living, but the crucial last seconds turn this around and use the mounting terror of the limits of human connection as the very fuel that shows that life is indisputably worth it, not only in spite of but because of the suffering

eva is about ripping the band-aid off, and then realizing that it was the best thing to do after the pain subsides.

there are a million analyses of eva, but most of them are superficial in overall depth, usually only choosing to psychoanalyze this or that character, or to talk about some of the atmospheric themes, but scant few actually dig into the central subject matter of the show that gives the work its lifeblood-- the fundamental and irreducible loneliness in an isolated experience of the human condition.

in less pretentious words: you will never be anyone else, and noone else will ever be you. you are alone in your experience of the human condition, and while that is profoundly and abjectly terrifying, it is one of the things makes it special and worth living.

>>18076585
the atmosphere of eva is unparalleled. the feeling of terror and creepiness itself creeps up on you until you realize how high the stakes are in a psychological or existential sense. something is always wrong, and you're always unconsciously aware of it until it bursts out clearly. the loneliness and tension are palpable, and it does an amazing job of displaying the psychological sufferings and motivations of each character.

what philosophical ideas were surface level and childlike to you?

>>18076490
>>18076323
you're retarded. some mediums are better than others for different stories and experiences, but literature is unparalleled in its emotional depth, for many reasons, and for one, because of its unique ability to portray abstract ideas with clarity. another good reason is that a movie can never truly be told from a first-person perspective

>>18076304
i dont think its "sad", just deep. you won't really get it until you watch it. go for it, its worth it.

>>18075364
succinct and true.

>>18075018
the stretch of episodes where the formula doesn't change is my biggest problem with eva, although i suppose there's an argument in there about the monotony being part of the experience.

since when is a 200 page thread about singeaporean cartoons allowed on /lit/

>>18076816
mods are fags, I shit on this kids show and it gets a million replies of weebs describing how its actually so deep because its sad and shit. fucking faggots

>>18076858
I'm not weeb, not even close. NGE franchise is the only Japanese work of animation I've seen in my life, except a couple of Pokemon episodes when I was, like, 10.
And yet I consider Evangelion an art and a masterpiece. It's unique.

>>18076490
>>18076323
Yeah, you're right. Audiovisual representation acts upon us on a far more primal level than reading.

>>18069392
I felt fucked up for two weeks after watching EoE. I was 17 and at a very unstable point of my life.

>>18076327
Theater is, in fact, capable of capturing emotion in a way literature can't

>94 Posters
>205 replies

>>18074254
>>18074263
Based and purificationpilled, read The Secret Garden and Yotsuba as well, return to the simple joys of childhood

This is so embarrassing.
A retarded shonen anime is collecting 200 replies on a literature board! Stop overanalyzing this garbage and roll for your daily page quota. Last two numbers.

Absolutely flabbergasted by the amount of op enablers itt

>>18077397
>>18077276
You're so blunt and will never appreciate any art

>>18076304
MC is a shy introverted loser, just like me!

>>18077153
>>18077276
>>18077397
>stop blahblahblah
No.

I'll start this show today, after reading this thread the whole way through. It's probably gonna be gone by the time I finish, but we'll see. It's gonna be my first anime in ten years.

>>18076304
EoE is the greatest action movie of all times

>>18070293
>I've watched the series and EOE, it was good for a cartoon.
It's not a cartoon.

>>18070450
>LOL. Cinema has its place among the fine arts, animation doesn't.
Because some boomer said so?

>>18072136
>Eva had two target audiences. 1) children who would be watching it for robots
It was aired in the wrong time slot, essentially. It didn't take off in popularity until it was aired again in a late timeslot. The original Gundam had a similar situation in that it was overshooting the audience that its toy company sponsor was aiming for.

>>18072341
>>18072408
>>18072442
>>18072497
It's not a cartoon, or for children.

>>18074085
I have never seen anyone have this problem in any other medium. They don't watch a movie, or listen to an album, or play a game, or read a book, and then only search for something that's exactly the same. This only happens with anime.

>>18074254
>Real talk, why do I hate this sort of anime?
A mental illness common to Westerners.

>>18074798
Waifu is not a type of character. Whore has a specific meaning and you can't just randomly apply it to things. Westerners generally don't like female characters, or prefer male characters more.

>I hate weebs
Then I guess you must be a weeb, since your post is just talking about yourself and your issues.

>>18077276
It's not a shounen.

>>18079353
It's great, but compared to literature it's quite superficial. Still a great piece of art considering the short format.
For some reason Japanese used to be obsessed with the concept of apocalypse and the Messiah (in Akira, many Ghibli movies, Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion, Texhnolyze) and honestly I only recently discovered that it's the only theme I like in anime. But recently such anime is rare and it's more commercial and NEETy, whatever it means

>>18076304
It's not sad, it's bittersweet.
If you read the plot, then I can tell you that at the end everyone dies, but it's a happy and joyful ending, somehow. That sentence alone should describe the atmosphere pretty well

>>18079749
Having an apocalyptic theme doesn't make an anime less commercial. I don't know why you think NEETs have anything to do with this.

>>18079779
Yeah I know that NEETy is a very subjective adjective, but by NEETy I mean anime about for example having a cute step mother, or cute girls lifting dumbbells or eating food.. It's like shitposting but scripted and you as an observer. 0 challenge

>>18079746
>It's not a cartoon.
Yes it is, "anime" has no specific advantages in its medium: the medium is the cartoon.

>Because some boomer said so?
Always the sassy replies from weebs.

>>18079803
That doesn't have anything to do with being a NEET, and not every show, movie or book is meant to be or has to be "challenging."

>>18079813
Anime is completely different from cartoons. Cartoons cannot do what anime does.

>Always the sassy replies from weebs.
I'm not a weeb, and it was a serious question.

>>18076304
I wouldn’t say “sad”. It is more like it deals in depth with painful ideas for hours and then comes to a coherent conclusion without offering any real resolution for the characters involved. It is hard to describe, but it basically makes a convincing case that the existential pain associated with interpersonal experiences is insurmountable, but still worth engaging in.

>>18079822
That's why I said it was subjective you mong
I associate NEETs as retards having too much time eating shit food and watching easy anime.
And I even like some easy anime myself, but it's objectively not good. It's just a thing to kill time

>>18079822
>Anime is completely different from cartoons. Cartoons cannot do what anime does.
No you retarded weeb
Anime is literally short for "animation", and cartoons are literally what we call animated 2D movies. Typically we associate cartoons as them being for children, but it's not in the definition. Anime and cartoons are literally the same thing

>>18079882
Being unemployed doesn't magically make people watch specific anime, and they don't magically stop watching that anime when they get a job.

>And I even like some easy anime myself, but it's objectively not good. It's just a thing to kill time
How is it objectively not good?

>>18079901
Anime is literally short for animation in Japan. In the West the word was specifically adopted to describe Japanese animation, which has a wide range of qualities that set it apart from cartoons. Retarded pedophile.

>>18079822
>Anime is completely different from cartoons. Cartoons cannot do what anime does.

Explain the fundamental differences.

>>18079924
eyes is bigger innit

>>18079924
Virtually everything about them is different because they are completely different approaches to animation. The only thing they really have in common is that they're cel animation.

>>18079922
Okay you can also say that being transsexual doesn't magically mean you will commit suicide in the future, but statistically that's what happens.
So you're right that I can't say that every NEET is this and that, but in general they're much more likely to do some things.
I'm a NEET myself, but that's just how I call it, I even defined it. Whether it actually has anything to do with NEETs or not doesn't matter, because this word doesn't exist so I can define it as whatever I want

>noooo usa makes animation solely for children therefore it cant possibly be equal to other artforms!!!!
The sheer amount of arrogant narrow-minded Americans in this thread...
4chan has been consumed by Reddit. Even /lit/ has fallen.

some people simply deserve to be bullied

>>18079944
That's a nothing answer. Explain some differences.

>>18079953
nah bullies are all weak faggots

>>18079944
So Japanese cartoons are different from Western cartoons?

>>18079971
irrelevant

>>18079977
nobody deserves unwarranted faggotry

>>18079994
It's a morally bad thing to be weak and some people can only change through bullying

>>18080011
>It's a morally bad thing to be weak
no it isn't lol

>>18080011
bullies are weak in their own faggoty way yes

>>18079947
A NEET is just someone who is not employed or in education. That's it.

>>18079963
For example, anime has complicated and varied storytelling like you would find in live action movies and TV shows, novels and video games. NGE is an example of that. Anime has cinematography and editing and other aspects of filmmaking. The art is much more realistic.

>>18079974
I'm not talking about Japanese cartoons.

>>18080021
it hurts those close to you and society but also it can be a reflection of too much entitlement.
Fear is one of the main reasons why bad things happen and weak people are obviously very fearful.
>>18080025
I hope someone bullies your bitch ass irl

>>18080026
you're unironically 90IQ

>>18080216
You're unironically projecting because you lack the IQ to respond to anything I said.

>>18079952
"Anime is for grown ups like me, muh narrow-minded West thinks animation is for children!" is THE fucking Reddit take on animation, you fucking idiot shithead.
Anime is garbage, it has zero depth. Making things edgy and violent doesn't make shit mature.

>>18080223
Because you ignore what others tell you and just keep spitting the same stuff. You're a representation of someone who has their ears covered and just keeps saying "LALALALALA"

>>18080235
>Anime is garbage, it has zero depth.
Then that means, logically, that everything is garbage and has no depth, making your argument useless.

>Making things edgy and violent doesn't make shit mature.
Western media is far more edgy and violent than anime.

>>18080247
Where did this happen and how?

>>18080235
If you claim that the West isn't arrogant in its narrow-mindedness, stop making exuses and watch the damn thing before criticizing 'zero depth'

>>18079971
Then what does it make you?

>>18076585
This is exactly it. What makes the show great aren't it's themes, which are fairly surface level, but the execution. The atmosphere contains a constant feeling of impending doom, and the characters are incredibly compelling and well acted. The most impactful scenes in the show, like the beach scene or the end of episode 24, aren't remembered for some deep meaning, but for how they show the characters st their lowest points dealing with extraordinarily difficult situations. People who dismiss the show as being shallow or for pseuds are criticizing it for the wrong reasons.

>>18076768
Yes, the show's whole ending is life affirmation despite everything that's happened. Shinji can exist in a realm of pure peace and calm but he picks living instead even despite the apocalypse. The show isn't a depressing artpiece. The character is depressed so that the decision for life affirmation is more meaningful. It is sad so that it is ultimately more life affirming

>>18080494
These kind of people criticize Nabokov for 'flowery writing without Deep Meanings and Ideas'.
I hate Internet.

>>18080358
better off than some weak bully fag lol

Threads like this are why you don't bother arguing with the people who claim superhero movies/tv shows are high art. Just totally unwilling to engage with the idea they're ignorant/immature and the work they like isn't mature.

>>18080684
You are the first person in the thread to mention superheroes.

>>18080026
What are you talking about? The visual techniques of a typical shounen/seinen are borrowed (see Disney for neoteny, exaggeration) or universal (dynamic perspective, fluidity), they're not native to Japan or its animation industry...are you retarded? The art isn't "realistic" - it's flattened to force a silhouette. Realism would require rotoscoping (see Aku no Hana). I know you think you understand Kurosawa and his influence on Satoshi Kon because you saw an episode of Every Frame a Painting, but you don't.

>>18080684
Anon, I'm being serious. NGE is not like other animes. It's nowhere near superhero movies or some death not or whatever other pop culture shallow trash. It's creator is a genius and a pioneer of cinematography, and his creative use of animation is THE originality and creativity, the soul of all high art.
Oh wait. You want ro continue with 'modern art bad', don't you?

Eva is cool and all, but FLCL is actually the best 2 deep 4 u anime and is more enjoyable to watch too.

>>18080721
Anime characters don't look like Disney, and anime's "filmmaking" is completely different from cartoons or even American animation at large. Some of the techniques in anime are native to anime, others are based on movies.

>are you retarded?
Dumb pedophile.

>The art isn't "realistic"
I said it's realistic compared to cartoons, which it is, and even in absolute terms it's often realistic.

>Realism would require rotoscoping
It does not.

> I know you think you understand Kurosawa and his influence on Satoshi Kon because you saw an episode of Every Frame a Painting, but you don't.
I did not say anything about Kurosawa or Kon or Every Frame a Painting. Are you a schizo?

>>18076809
>literature is unparalleled in its emotional depth, for many reasons, and for one, because of its unique ability to portray abstract ideas with clarity.
It has more emotional depht, but seeing and hearing a character crying on screen causes more of an emptional response in a human being than an entire page of a character being described crying with an explanation of his suffering.

>>18079971
I don’t care. As long as they make nerds too insecure to become furries and shit, they are providing an essential service to mankind.

>>18080256
>Then that means, logically, that everything is garbage and has no depth
Anime sits on the same intellectual level as Western capeshit. I know you don't want to believe that your cartoon is just as deep as a Batman monologue but it is. Sorry.
>>18080280
>Watch this whole "I'm 14 and this is deep" show before you criticize it.
I watched it enough to understand that it's "I'm 14 and this is deep", just like all "mature" anime.

>>18080749
Tried like 4 times and couldn't make it past 1 episode. So boring.

>>18080833
Anime is not equivalent to superhero movies. Anime is comprised of a very wide range of genres.

>I know you don't want to believe that your cartoon is just as deep as a Batman monologue but it is. Sorry.
Anime and cartoons are not the same thing.

>>18080833
Excuses exuses exuses exuses
You just proved my point

>>18080750
Mate, address the points. I said "borrowed" (i.e. implying influence) or "universal" (i.e. endemic to the medium). You keep using the word cartoon as if it were a pejorative, you know that it's not, right? What exactly do you think you mean by realism? The original Fleischer Superman shorts (rotoscoped) are far and away more dynamic than the vast majority of early animated efforts from Japan (see Astro Boy or, if you prefer, Future Boy Conan) and their modern equivalents. TV animation is hyperstylized and frequently cheap, which led to shortcuts like: shounen exposition (X-Men style narration in conjunction with lip-sync demands). Can't you tell that I'm mocking you for your impassioned misunderstanding of cartoons?

Nge is unironically deeper than any piece of literature written after 1900

>>18081089
I did address the points. Try reading the post.

>You keep using the word cartoon as if it were a pejorative
It is one, and everyone knows it is.

>What exactly do you think you mean by realism?
Visual realism in this case.

>The original Fleischer Superman shorts (rotoscoped) are far and away more dynamic than the vast majority of early animated efforts from Japan (see Astro Boy or, if you prefer, Future Boy Conan) and their modern equivalents.
Visual realism is more than just the fluidity of the animation.

>TV animation is hyperstylized
Depends.

>and frequently cheap, which led to shortcuts like: shounen exposition (X-Men style narration in conjunction with lip-sync demands).
All commercial animation makes compromises somewhere, including those Superman shorts.

>Can't you tell that I'm mocking you for your impassioned misunderstanding of cartoons?
There was no misunderstanding.

>>18081124
Oh, well...than I need to let all the western "animators" know that their field is being denigrated, don't I? You've got issues mate, I hope you're able to move past this weird defensive spergery someday.

>>18081216
>You've got issues mate
Why are you lying?

>weird defensive spergery
There it fucking is again. "Defensive." I'm never allowed to defend anything, ever, but other people are allowed to attack it all day long as much as they like, however they like. Fucking narcissists.

>>18081266
I hope you're not an adult, because this is just sad. Ironic, given your responses elsewhere in the thread, but mostly just sad.

>>18080833
WHYYYYY GOYIM
WHY DO YOU NOT WATCH OUR CAPESHIT
WHY MUST YOU CHOOSE CHINESE CARTOONS INSTEAD
THEY ARE LITERALLY THE SAME THING YOU STUPID GOYIM

>>18081301
I said nothing sad. I asked you why you are lying, and expressed frustration at your narcissism.

>>18081308
Get the fuck off right now

>>18081308
He probably is a jew, since he argues like one.

>>18070407
Just read all 10,000 Beserks and learn to focus solely on rage to propel you through your struggles.

>>18074973
based

>>18080802
lol okay fascist

>>18069392
Watch Revolutionary Girl Utena next anon

The Angels are best monsters in anything

You can tell Anno is a fucking hack because the very strange relationship between Shinji and Misato is one of the core elements of the original show, and arguably its most compelling. But in EoE it's downplayed in importance and in the Rebuilds it is gradually completely forgotten about. As Anno himself got more and more control over Eva he basically did away with many of the things that makes the original show so interesting.

>>18081602
>But in EoE it's downplayed in importance
wut

>>18081602
Dumbass

>>18081602
I haven’t watched the rebuilds, but it makes sense that elements of the show developed during down time between attacks would not be as prominent. eoe does the opposite of downplay it.

>>18081647
>>18081727
It IS downplayed. The two relationships that absolutely dominate EoE are Shinji's relationship with Asuka and his relationship with Kaworu. Sure, Misato gets that kiss, but there is otherwise less attention paid to what she has with Shinji in the show. Shinji is absolutely obsessed with Asuka and utterly broken by Kaworu's death. These are the things driving EoE.

>>18081785
It makes sense that way though. As a surrogate mother figure to shinji, she isn’t someone who explicitly operates on the same plane as him. There may be latent desire for her, but there isn’t doubt that she is not someone he could attain in any scenario. Her not being his biological mother also negates a lot of other impact she would have. If he wasn’t a pilot, why would she have had any connection to him in the first place?

That said, she is still the best girl in the series.

I haven't watched End of Evangelion.
I thought the original ending was fantastic as a basically an exploration of the final outcome of Freudian thought.
Is EoE worth watching? It seems to me it goes more supernatural rather than simply being an explanation of the internal psyche like the original which I feel like I wouldn't like as much.

>>18081881
It is definitely worth watching. My understanding of it was that it was both a more explicit telling of events and an alternate and more in depth perspective of Shinji’s “trip”. The very end makes the finale make a lot more sense than the end of the actual television series too.

>>18070128
This lmao

>>18071993
>Oh no the world ends in this fictional work
Spooky stuff

>>18071929
>it's not depth
I agree. It is more honesty and not avoiding lines of thought that others avoid for obvious reasons.

>>18081881
EoE is more of a great spectacle. Worth watching for sure but I also loved the meta psychoanalysis of the original

>>18070128
>It's nothing more than surface level philosophy with super cool fighting robots as the main focus.
Super cool fighting robots is the pinnacle of intellect

fuck, this thread makes me want to watch NGE, but i read a few too many posts and am spoiled about the tonal shift halfway through. is it ruined for me

>>18069392
Akira is just what you need

>>18083324
No. Go ahead.

Honestly, for me, the thing that compels me and keeps me coming back are the characters and how deep they are. The tonal shift plays a role in that, but knowing about it won't make it any less compelling.

And when I say deep, I don't mean, like, there are hidden meanings and symbolism and things like that. I mean that it feels like the characters, especially the three pilots and Misato, are basically wells that you just keep diving deeper and deeper into. The show is very good at portraying its characters in an extremely intimate, close-up way, to the extent that you feel you know them better than you know most characters in fiction.

In this way Eva has been a major inspiration to me as a writer. I long to create characters that are portrayed as intimately as Eva's characters are. For that matter, I'd love to read literature that has similarly deep dives into its characters and what they're like. Maybe Proust? I've read Ulysses, Joyce kind of does this with Bloom and Stephen. But I'd love more recommendations.

>>18072574
cope

I can’t get past the fact that this anime tries to be deep by using random gnostic names and concepts without correlation or true conception at all. It’s like some Japanese dude randomly chose some cool sounding names for certain characters to make his shit look deep. And it’s not that deep.

>>18084365
Blood Meridian?

>>18084508
There's unironically a decent amount of parallels between this and Blood Meridian.

>>18081396
I was about to recommend Berserk
>>18070407
Unironically Berserk, you will experience despair for a short amount of time while reading it, but shortly after you will feel the same kind of motivation as the protagonist, to move forward and improve yourself.

>>18069495
im tearing up reading this and i've seen the show 3 or 4 times lol

>>18083324
The tonal shift is overstated, just watch it.

>>18073466
i just rewatched recently, i think it's because they stop playing "misatos theme" for the most part, after episode 9. that's literally it.

>>18080749
Is this worth watching? Anybody?

>>18084854
i love eva and could only watch 2 eps of fclc before getting bored. i think it was supposed to be funny?

>>18080749
It isn't deeper than Eva, but it is certainly a work with a lot of artistic value. It's my favorite anime.

>>18084854
As I said above, it's my favorite anime. FLCL is an amazing coming of age story that, for me at least, inspired a sense of nostalgia and longing and made me feel like a kid again.

The art style and music are wonderful. The "story" doesn't make sense-- and its not supposed to. The message of the work lies inside the character interactions and the narrative.

I rewatched FLCL the first time I did acid, and that was a phenomenal experience, so if you're into that kind of thing I would say go for it even for a first watch.

>>18069495
>>18084847
And nobody dares admit this, because it is extraordinarily taboo, but this is why the show very logically posits Misato as Shinji's proper romantic pairing. Because Misato inhabits the idea that one of the themes of Eva is that life isn't ideal but isolating yourself is even worse.

Misato's a fucking mess. But so is Shinji. They come together at the start of the show, and they are shoved together out of Misato not wanting Shinji to be alone, because she, herself, was alone once and she hated it. A simple, unprompted act of kindness born of empathy. And it begins this strange relationship, one that is simultaneously friendship, parent-child, and romance.

And they care for each other in a way that seems to transcend need and want. Misato has Kaji as her old flame. Shinji has Asuka as his big romantic interest, and Rei hovers in the background as something he can't quite put his finger on, but is powerful.

Fun fact: Eva likes to use colors. Asuka is red. Rei is blue. And blue and red make purple. Who's purple? Isn't it Misato, with her purple hair? So we might view Misato, somehow, as a combination of what Rei and Asuka are.

Which makes total sense, since Eva is obsessed with typing out women, and how a man (Shinji) relates to them. So then, Rei is woman as mother. Literally a clone of Shinji's mom. Passive, gentle, docile, but also protective. A woman who wants to guard men.

While Asuka is woman as lover. Angry, fierce, fiery, but also needy, and craving after affection. A woman who wants to be wanted by men.

So then, Misato is the blend of the two. Woman in her totality, woman as she really is, a messy mix of the lover and the mother. Freud's Madonna-Whore in all her glory, which makes sense because Eva is a very Freudian work.

And the original show seems to say, "Misato is what women are really like. She's what the other side is really like. You're going to have to learn to deal with her, because the alternative is alienation and eternal loneliness."

The show chickens out a little on this towards the end, but I think this is what it builds towards in a very logical way. Which of course generates so much ethical dilemma, since she is twice Shinji's age. And she also has Kaji.

But they're all that's left in the end, aren't they? Everyone else is dead or worse, by the end of the show, and all they have left is each other. Kaji, Ritsuko, Asuka, Rei, Kaworu, Toji, Hikari, Kensuke, all dead or worse than dead or gone. Only Shinji and Misato are left, at the end of all things. Maybe it means something.

>>18080749
It's the ultimate pleb filter,it's impossible for a pleb to like it

>>18084365
It doesn't try to be deep.Hideaki Anno said himself that he used that merely for aesthetic value ,or as he said himself "it looks cool"
You are dumb.

>>18084365
you're missing the forest for the trees. The point of the religious symbolism isn't to be deep but to help set the scene and atmosphere

>>18085821
Stop further fantasizing half-misheard random internet facts, you absolute retard. He never said that. That are words of another person not really close to production

>>18082494
It is precisely because it draws on trappings from our real world

I always thought that Dostoevsky was the perfect anime writer

- top tier waifus
- constant existential angst
- lots of incel characters

Best anime I've watched

1. texnolyze
2. lain
3. gantz
4. berserk
5. ninja scroll
6. lodoss war
7. evangelion (only because it has top tier animation)
8. logh
9. one punch man

>>18085983
Then I’m right, you retard. This anime lacks substance on its own so it needs cool sounding names to “set the atmosphere.”

>>18085821
It’s literally 3deep5u: the anime

This isn't literature.

>>18070407
Bible.

>>18070407
>not being a mental wreck who dwells in the past?
none, keep being an introspective cunt until you face ego death.

>>18086949
There's more to the show than the religious symbolism you know