/lit/ - Literature

This shit's actually really good. Thanks, Truman!

>>1805551

The rest of the video is very interesting too, I've seen a few people here (mostly in my threads about psychoanalysis) looking for examples of Žižek's analysis in relation to the internet.

Zizek's talks are always fascinating, and this is one I hadn't stumbled upon. Thanks for the link.

Speaking of Zizek; what's up with /lit/'s sudden hipsterism concerning Zizek?
He gets so much hate on this board.
I like him.

>>1805562
I don't mind Zizek at all. He doesn't take himself too seriously, although I get a little annoyed by his over the top mannerisms when he talks. He's like DFW. Brilliant, but consciously hamming up their Aspergers because that's what brilliant people do, right?

>>1805562

People make fun of Zizek, who is a supremely comic figure --> FUKKEN HIPSTERS!1

Can we all just agree to stop using this word and all derivations thereof

>>1805562

Zizek has always been really divisive here. I think it's just something about him in general.

>>1805566

Why would you assume they're faking it?

>>1805569
He might be comical to you americans, but as an eastern europian comrade I understand him fully, he reminds me of my dad; also a pretty comical figure when speaking english, but if you really listen and disregard his somewhat crippled english he does makes sense and has some really interesting ideas.

>>1805566
>>1805566
>He's like DFW. Brilliant,
>DFW
>Brilliant

so brilliant he couldn't even handle facing reality and went and topped himself

dohohohoho

>>1805573
I think Zizek is definitely exaggerating it for the sake of personality.

>>1805577

You didn't answer my question.

>>1805574

But Zizek explicitly makes jokes all the time. He's a funny guy a lot of the time. He knows he is. It helps his speaking.

>>1805566
>brilliant

i dunno his ideas are far too pop psychology for me to internalize as legitimate or insightful criticisms of society

>>1805582

They're intentionally pop-psychological. He's commenting on the pop-psychology influencing American discourse. He talks about it somewhere in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IDAnB_rns

>>1805574

>American

NOPE

An outlandish accent is just the cherry on top of his funniness

I like the "Pervert's Guide to Cinema" he did.

>>1805577
the stage has a way of amplifying your desire for performance.

>>1805576
shouldn't you be doing your homework tommy

and truman you don't understand psychoanalysis at all.
the more interesting analysis is when you analyze the analysis. what does your reactions to what zizek says say about yourself. what did you learn from it besides it being 'interesting'

>>1805582

I disagree, proper philosophical analysis of popular culture is vitally necessary for the progression of philosophical thought in the modern era.

Love Žižek, but watching him fidget around makes me feel uncomfortable. I have to open up another tab for his longer lectures.

>>1805594
>he takes pop culture literally

>>1805601

Onionring nobody cares, please go away.

You are a parasitic entity on this board.

>>1805599

Yes it's quite strange seeing him flail around so much when he speaks, but I think a reason people love him so much is that he is the perfect archetype of the eccentric and batty intellectual who we love to patronise.

I find this to be the case in Britain, but I think it's very similar to America.

>>1805610
That's the thing. I propose that Zizek is performing that archetype for us.

>>1805610
so the bird flaps its little wings and says, i'm in a cage.

>>1805562
No, no, no. You have it all wrong. Hipsters are the only ones who like this commie faggot.

meh, he's interesting precisely because he knows that he's projecting a charlatan image, but he's not afraid of being ridiculous. when people both realize the transgression of intel. boundary expectations as well as recognize the substance of his ideas, there is this appreciation of him as toying with propriety. this is precisely the kind of mentality that is necessary to hold onto the dearest ideals despite their 'impracticality' and 'insanity.'

truman, again, your stilted and buttoned up act is precisely the kind of bullshit pretension that is problematic. why are you seeking to constantly hew the line of respectability on this retarded shithole of a website.

>>1805616

I think he in some ways encourages it to gain some recognition for his ideas and books, but I also think he has quickly discovered that it has a detrimental effect as neutral spectators sometimes dismiss him as a vapid clown philosopher and it also arms his haters to portray him as a kind of sinister clown who uses this veil of humour and endearing eccentricity to push forward some really vile ideas.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to get rid of that image.

Remember how uncomfortable he was when that student hugged him after he made a lecture?

>>1805629
Word. I dig it. Despite my annoyance, I still watch his stuff. He's a performer first, thinker second.

I don't have a problem with Zizek, I have a problem with people take him seriously. He's just a pop philosopher with amusing mannerisms, and shouldn't really be considered an authority on anything he talks about.

>>1805629

because unlike you I actually like /lit/.

I know why you are here onionring, the real pretension is how you try and mask your existence here as some form of ethical, philosophical experiment when really this is all about satisfying your pathetic superiority complex.

It becomes so obvious to me how you people have no idea what you're on about.
He's just folksy, in an eastern europian sense, but since you have different values, another set way of humouring people; you perceive his behaviour as staged or forced.
To me, as an eastern europian, it's completely normal, because I can see the transition from his eastern europian way translated directly into english.
You've just misunderstood him, and I think it's sad that he's perceived like this in the states/GB.

>>1805643

Absolutely. This is what I was trying to say.

However paradoxically i believe it was this perceived flamboyant eccentricity which made him so famous in the first place. But it's a curse for two reasons as I stated here: >>1805633

>>1805641
i can do both.

>>1805591
This is kinda why I like Zizek. I'm the kind of person who cannot understand decaf coffee, but I can maybe get some sort of insight into it. I can see parallels in my own behaviours.

>>1805566
>but consciously hamming up their Aspergers
>Apparently Aspergers and a coke habit are the exact same thing now.
But, slightly more seriously, not everyone is a white anglo-saxon protestant with no expression,

>>1805649
difference being, i always speak what's on my mind. it happens that often i say superior things, but don't blame me for being that, just not breaking it down for your consumption.

>>1805660
>i say superior things
Superior to what?

>>1805663
Onionring has a superiority complex because of her social exclusion. She visits 4chans /lit/ because her education in philosophy puts her above 99% of the posters here and she ritualistically abuses those who know less than her by attacking their intelligence and by making deliberately confusing and enigmatic points and laughing as we misunderstand her.

It's all about her need to feel superior to something, it's very sad actually because she probably has a lot to offer this board.

>>1805673
>hasn't blocked Onionring. Hasn't blocked BrownBear.
>Considering blocking Capote, but I still like you so far.

>>1805673
about 70% of my posts are well meaning and funny. i aim for the highest standard, which often is comedy. you are too slow for it, sorry.

>>1805683
>i aim for the highest standard
Well, in that hit, you miss.

>>1805683

Ok sure I am stupid whatever

Can we get back on to Žižek? Has anyone read 'The Monstrosity of Christ'? I know that the title's Žižek chooses are often deliberately paradoxical or provocative but I thought he greatly admired the interpretative story of Christianity?

>>1805697
often in arguments on this board the situation is that each side wants to make a point that is valuable to the other side, but they talk past each other. the highest standard here is making both see the point that they miss about each other.

and truman the idea you are looking for is something along the line of "being aware of what's missing." this is present in all 'highest level' philosophers.

>>1805716

or 'seeing the silence' as Žižek would say.

>>1805716
>often in arguments on this board the situation is that each side wants to make a point that is valuable to the other side, but they talk past each other. the highest standard here is making both see the point that they miss about each other.
No, it's that people disagree simply because they don't understand one another.

Either/or/either/or

>>1805730
>doesn't know about paradoxes

what happens when you don't understand yourself?

>>1805753
Knothng.

>>1805761
well that would be clever if you knew what you were doing, and funny if you didn't

Žižek is immediately likable, based solely on the fact that he is humble and genuine.

He also manages to get to the "core" of matters, so to speak. And with ease too.

Often times he would lose focus, but I don't care, because in the end the experience was absolutely engrossing and enlightening.

>>1805764
I quite like your esoteric humour.

When I see the standard /lit/ debate, I imagine something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WveI_vgmPz8

>>1805797
precisely

>>1805683
They may mean well.

I do quite like Žižek. Partly because of his work, and partly because we share our motherland :3

>>1806950

Yugoslavia or Slovenia?

>>1806958
Slovenia. I know he was technicall born in Yugoslavia, but it was on the grounds of Slovenia.

>>1806964

Yes of course he considers his home to be Slovenia, but I remember one video where he tried to provoke Slovenian nationalists by saying that a few minutes of a good film means more to him than his entire country.

>>1806974
Heh. He is right to some degree, Slovenia today is pretty shit, considering what potential it has. And if you look at our nationalists, they are really some of the most closed-minded, backward people by far around here.

Shut up about zizek already Truman, All too Truman

We all know you're not going to become a marxist or a lacanian psychoanalyst so I don't know why you're entertaining this stuff.

>>1807031
Ends justify the means.

>>1807031
young, all too young

>>1807031
oh look who showed up everyone it's jeremy bentham

>>1807036
The question is not, Can Turman reason? nor, Can Truman talk? but, Can Truman suffer?

>>1807036

yung and easily freudened

>>1807035
>young, all too young

speak for yourselves when I was a freshman I was reading about wittgenstein

whoaaaa

>>1807031

It's just very interesting.

If I get the grades for medicine I'd like to study psychiatry, and I know Lacan isnt exactly scientific but its a nice way to explore Freud and the origin of modern psychotherapy/psychiatry because he applies it to modern cultural phenomena.

And also so much of it is still relevant in real psychiatry, like projection, ego & super ego, transference etc.

>>1807050
>And also so much of it is still relevant in real psychiatry, like projection,
Correct kinda.
>ego & super ego,
No
>transference etc.
Yeah, again kinda correct.

There's a very definite divide between psychologists and psychiatrists though. And Lacan doesn't have so much to do with either.

>>1807044
Easily the best post ITT. Maybe in the whole of /lit/.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

>>1807048
>I was reading about wittgenstein
>about wittgenstein
>about
Not actually reading Wittgenstein then?

>>1807051

I know for a fact psychiatrists still use the idea of an ego and super ego (perhaps not explicitly named) with regard to neurosis.

>>1807056
Appropriate given that it's from James Joyce

>>1807064
ICD-10 or DSM-IV-TR? The ICD classifies Neuroses as "Neurotic, stress-related and somatoform [the symptoms manifest as if there is a physical problem] disorders", and none of those would need ego or superego to be described.

>>1807076

People with a stronger ego are more neurotic, it's a shame Freud based all his tests on people with relatively strong egos I don't think he came into much contact with people who had absolutely no discernible ego who could construct such suppressive defensive mechanisms.

>>1807114
>People with a stronger ego are more neurotic
How is this relevant to psychiatry? Neuroses is somewhat old fashioned but still relevant label, but ego and superego aren't. I'd recommend you read up on the history of both psychiatry and psychoanalysis (which developed as a criticism of psychiatry to some degree).

>>1807076

People with a stronger ego are more likely to become neurotic after some trauma, it's a shame Freud based all his tests on people with relatively capable egos I don't think he came into much contact with people who had absolutely no discernible ego who could never construct such suppressive defensive mechanisms.

Why do laughs suddenly appear every time Lacan is mentioned? I hear one now..

>>1807118

Sorry I'm on my phone but I still think you're wrong if you consider that neurosis is a conflict between ego and the basic drives.

>>1807120
Maybe a psychosis induced hallucination?

>>1807122
That's still basing the cause in something non-physical, therefore not psychiatry.

>>1807028
Except that we don't have any nationalists...I guess we do if you count Jelincic, but he is just a typical angsty leftfag with a gypsy hating tweest.

>>1807131
>Except that we don't have any nationalists
I suppose that makes sense considering there are only like, what, 5 or 6 Slovenians?

Your country's too small.

Zizek ran for PM here some time ago, I wish he had won.

>>1807131
I guess you are kind of right.
But there are loads of those ''hurr durr tu je slovenija'' assholes. Can't deny that.

Milan Kundera

>>1807200
how many slovenians on /lit/ lol?

> Mfw I'm going to Slovenia next month

>>1807242
Looks like at least two.

Ne vem, zakaj naš prelep materni jezik zapostavljamo z uporabo angleščine :D

>>1807255
are sloveniens really good at english or something?

>>1807254

Why would you go to Slovenia?

>>1807265
Cheap prostitutes in countries under Oriental Despotism.

>>1807255
Zato ker sucka balls.
>>1807263
I am, as are most of my nerdy compatriots.
>>1807284
Lol, I remember this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwDrHqNZ9lo

All americans hate on Zizek because he provides brutally honest commentries on their culture that their own academics wouldnt because of social stigma of such an extreme position.

>mfw

>>1807318
Cool, you got the reference. That was the first thing I saw where I really liked him.

>>1807319
Basically none of this is true.

Hot damn man.

>>1807319
He's published in Harper's...

>>1807338
His conquests overshadow all other achievements.

>>1807337
would you pour me a glass of that haterade you got there?

>>1807318
Well, slovenian isn't all that bad, I think.
And yes, most Slovenians in higher education (or geek hobbies) are good at it.
>>1807254
Make sure you stop by my house.

I don't see any reason to care if he fidgets around on purpose or not other than someone wishing they also made interesting eccentric motions when they speak.

>>1807319
100% this

i like zizek because i'm ignorant and he says cool things also cool accent and a cool guy

>>1805526

I am a Zizek follower, thank you for sharing this

>>1805683

So you are perfect, opposing anything below your high standard.

That's also excluding yourself from the %99 of the population. How's that working out for you?

Your opposition has edgy sides we can handle, don't worry. It's just how you keep doing it makes me feel sorry for you.

>>1807431
did i miss something? what makes onion in the top 1% again?

>>1807431
not opposing. arrogance is a bad habit though.

bump

>>1807126

>ego
>not physical
>he doesn't know about the mirror test !
>laughingwhores.gif

>>1807126

>ego
>not physical
>he doesn't know about the mirror test !
>laughingwhores.gif