/lit/ - Literature

>>18031268
Holy based Dengchad
This kills the Baizuo

>>18031268
Yeah that's cringe.

what the fuck is Moist Economics

>>18031276
What level of faggotry is this?

>Consuuuuuuume

>>18031268
>Stalinism
Oh my

>>18031296
Marx is more
>Produuuuuuuce

>>18031291
Moshist (Jewish) economics

>>18031268
>not a single real economy book

>>18031268
*teleports behind you*

>>18031372

>>18031372
>>18031268
How do you imagine people with bookshelves like those look like?

>>18031376

>>18031378
Whatever it is, skinny or fat, they would be extremely emasculated.

>>18031372
>>18031376
>>18031383
Holy shit this is very impressive desu. Was that someone from /lit/? Whoever that was provided he read all this (which is dubious if you take a look at the spines) he did his homework

>>18031291
The Shanghai Textbook. Published in 1975.

>The Shanghai Textbook explains how socialist society concretely subordinates the commodity form of production (and money relations) as the primary vehicle for organizing social production. It explains how the proletariat sets out to initiate a form of “direct social production” involving a different way of organizing an economy (socially planned production for social need); to transform the labor process (the producers dominating the conditions of production rather than vice versa); and to develop a different social psychology (people working for the common good). But this new type of production has not and cannot break free totally of commodity elements, and various types of commodity-money relations persist under socialism and continue to influence people’s thinking. The principle of exchange based on equivalent amounts of labor still plays a role. Socialist enterprises must pay attention to efficiency and must still utilize monetary calculation to compare between the planned cost and the actual cost of producing something. The Textbook explores the reasons for this and the complications and dangers posed. By the same token, while the working class rules in socialist society and aims to abolish classes and class distinctions, socialist society continues to reproduce classes and social differences and inequalities that find expression as class antagonisms. Socialism is a society in which the danger of reversion to capitalism is omnipresent.

https://youtu.be/liMlM4rhkkA

Settling down in the study

>>18031372
Jesus and there's always so much clutter. Why do you have so much junk? Is that a star wars toy? You should really just throw that in the bin, anon. Or give it to your nephew. You do know that video games are for children, right?

>>18031372
>The guitar hero musical instruments
>The St. Paddy's Day hat
>Star Wars
>Harvard Library procured from a thrift store
>here today gone tomorrow meme books about muh evil capitalism

>he does not have all of Marx and Engels' collected works in German
weak

>>18031890
have sex

Marxists literally cannot meme.
And they can't even shelfpost.

>>18031973
lmao

>>18031973

>>18031268
>>18031372
>>18031376
>>18031383
>>18031517
>>18031917
Damn, marxists have really comfy aesthetics.

>>18031296

>>18032139
yeah.

Where do I start with marxism?

Is "Main Currents of Marxism" a good starting point?

>>18032186
not an objection, but isnt feminazi old hat now and turfs are on the other side?

>>18031366
you don't understand economics if you think there's such a thing as a "real economy" book

>>18032214
Listen to every talk by Michael Heinrich and Moishe Postone that is on youtube.

>>18031372
>>18031376
>>18031383
>sagging slave labor shelves
pottery

>>18032214
Start with the collected works of Lenin. Then check out the Marx-Engels Reader. Then read Luxemburg’s essays. Then go read Stalin, Bordiga, and Mao. Now you are based.

>>18032139
21st century socialist realism. There tends to be a lot of light and the emphasis is often on the eyes.

https://youtu.be/ojpN6PjRcQc?t=964

Eyes. Warm light. Also once you notice the flowers you'll start seeing them everywhere. They're like Tribbles.

Same aesthetic as this portrait basically:

https://youtu.be/0hIMfJs5s8E

>>18031268
>no Trotsky
filtered

>>18032314
>Start with the collected works of Lenin
nigger, why? why not start with the Marx-Engels Reader unless you specifically want him to become a Leninist in the end rather than have that being a possible conclusion he comes too.

Also you can see a direct line from this image to this:

https://youtu.be/ejQmdUqzeR8

Same aesthetic. It's modernism. But it's also like worshipping a Sun god. It's not "Christian."

Pathetic thread. You should all be very embarrassed.

>>18032237
>feminazi

>>18032452
the meme shows it's age

>>18032451
Here comes the sun

https://youtu.be/WNLcks1bi7s

>>18032451
post shelf

>>18032610
despite this eurotrash remix

People act like China was a cultural wasteland during the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution period but they made an incredible animated version of Journey to the West, the FLP book cover aesthetic was on-point and the music from East is Red is stunning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcGl6OSmG8s
Absolutely dwarves anything coming out of that gaudy fascist shithole nowadays.

marxists once again BTFOing everyone else on this board simply by reading and owning books

>>18032776
Who has that tweet by a black woman saying that expecting her, as a self proclaimed Marxist, to have read Marx is ableism

>>18032776
>reading and owning books
The latter, surely. The former? I doubt it.

>>18031405
>Was that someone from /lit/?
No. It's edwad.

>>18032799
>caring what dumb shit some random person on twitter says
never gonna make it, now go read society of the spectacle or i will tie you to a chair and read it to you

>>18032314
>Stalin, Bordiga, and Mao
Oh no it’s this guy again.

>>18031268
Rev Betrayed is all you need.

>>18031917
>>18031383
>>18031376
>>18031372
>>18031268
gotta say, I'm envious of people who read like that. I know I definitely would not be able to commit this much to an idea.
I assume these are not the types that you'd see in online debates.

Also, I had no idea Lenin and Stalin actually wrote that much. Makes me respect the whole movement a bit more

>>18032214
no its an awful way to get into Marxism.

>>18032186
Ancient meme

>>18031268
>No Posadas

>>18032991
These are 'selected' works from their time, speeches and correspondence. They had decades of active political work, so it's not difficult for them to fill out a bookshelf.

>>18032991
>I assume these are not the types that you'd see in online debates.
this. its sad that so many people base their opinion of entire schools of thought because some self proclaimed marxist on twitter said something incredibly stupid again.

>>18031383
>that sneaky homosexuals in history at the bottom left
kino pure fucking kino

I doubt any of these anons posting bookshelves have even read 10% of the books they own

>>18032214
Just start with Marx, man. The communism manifesto is literally written for workers, it's a dumbed down version of early marxism. If you like that, then you can read Economic and Philosophical manuscripts and if you're still there, then you might as well read Kapital.

>>18031268
>translated

>>18031268
There is not a single Hoxha book. You revisionist scum!

>>18033804
If you're an American learning Russian just so you can read Lenin will take you the amount of time required to read this entire bookshelf in translation lmao plus you'll never be near the level of a native speaker
T. Russian

>>18032776
>owning books is impressive
lmao >>18031372 the bookset on the bottom was a mail order thing for baby boomers to fill their shelves with.

>>18032214
yes

Hegelian nonsense, my goodness why do you people still insist on pursuing this lineage of thought? What utter rubbish! My god! Murderous, unforgivably destructive gibberish. Do you not know you share a close common ancestor with fascism? If it was AT LEAST interesting, but it's not even that! Did you send me to sleep? Sorry I just woke up and all I can see are a bunch of fucking stupid faggots LARPing on a dead fucking horse. WOW get a load of these guys! You silly bloody fools.

>>18033961
this is a nice copypasta and i agree

>>18032279
What about we start with theories that actually involve math for one.

>>18031301
this should have been /thread

>>18032878
>society of the spectacle
QRD?

>>18032991
>I know I definitely would not be able to commit this much to an idea.
I assume these are not the types that you'd see in online debates.
Probably not the case for >>18031372. Nobody buys the Great Books collection except to show off, and most of the books on his shelves don't even look like they have been read.

>no Wertkritik
>no Postone
>no Heinrich
>no Endnotes or any contemporary Marxist revue
>no Debord
>no Zizek or Mark Fisher
Outdated, into the trash it goes

>>18032214
Read Marx & Engels short texts
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm

Here is a simple summary of Capital written by an Italian anarchist, approved by Marx himself: https://www.marxists.org/archive/cafiero/1879/summary-of-capital.htm
I also recommend reading the first chapter of the German Ideology to better understand historical materialism

>>18032298
Based

>>18032314
Literally pic related

>everyone creams their pants about how great marx and communism is
>in real life none of these inherently utopian ideas actually end up taking a form that in any way resembles what they are supposed to be, like all retarded utopian ideals that seek to bypass reality instead of working with it
>so called """""""""intellectuals""""""" still to this day jerk themselves off over the ideas because they are still so totally cool and perfect and utopian broooo how could you not want it??!?!?! its so logical!!

its all so tiresome, man. the moment someone identifies with leftism I cant help but lose all respect for them as its such a clear sign to me that they are literally incapable of exercising any sort of critical thought and just gravitate towards the first idea that makes their dopamine production go.

>>18034236
>Mark Fisher
Come on, dude.

>>18033961
>Murderous
>destructive
>share a close common ancestor with fascism
So?

>>18034278
I guess you’re just smarter than them all. You must always be asking yourself, “why do they pursue this line of reasoning that is at its foundation incorrect?” You find there’s a fundamental truth, maybe it’s “human nature,” that dissolves their whole paradigm. Could it be the worldview you live by is not founded on an eternal truth but is itself contingent and the result of historical development? The better marxists are aware of this, how people’s worldviews are a product of historical circumstances, and how we can become cognizant of these ideological contingencies and in doing so move beyond them.

>>18031517
Lenin was materially damn bad but hey, this is really a cozy office.

>>18031376
>>18031383
I’d like to read Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin but I know a lot of the stuff in the collected works is repeated or revised later, so what of it is necessary reading? Assuming of course you’ve actually read all those.

>>18034278
I don't get this "opinion" at all. Somehow reading thousands of pages of dense theory is still not enough to please you.

I can assure you that reading marxist theory is anything but dopamine inducing. It's some of the driest, most boring literature out there. Even if they only read leftist theory exclusively, at least they're fucking engaging in this shit, unlike people like you who just shitpost all day and express their opinions on things they have not read.
But sure, keep jerking yourself off about how you're too smart for leftist theory. I'm sure rich dad poor dad hits just the right spot for your intellectual level.

>>18031372
It’s literally over for right wingers.

>>18034567
>we can become cognizant of these ideological contingencies and in doing so move beyond them.
You can't move beyond your place in history. That is a very elementary mistake you just made.

>>18032237
The other side from what? Wall-Street?

>>18034766
? You’re always moving beyond you’re place in history. Where you are now vs 10 years ago is dependent on events that happened in those intermittent years.

>>18031376
>>18031372
That's a lot of paper, but the resulting of ideology screams of watered-down Capital-approved social progressivism.

>>18034695
>if you read 1000s of pages of theory it must be true
Nigger, do you think biologists are referring to Aristotle's theory of human conception when they create embryology experiments? It didn't work, move on like Plato did after he failed in Syracuse. Communists are slaves to ideas.

>>18034278
>socialism would be cool if it actually worked but muh human nature
Worse than leftists.

>>18034813
Don't conflate historical eras for the fleeting moments of a single life, but even on that level, you can't go beyond your place in your development and become a senile 60 year old when you're 20. You're so fucking dumb. How old are you?

>>18034695
>I don't get this "opinion" at all. Somehow reading thousands of pages of dense theory is still not enough to please you.
holy fucking pseud , yea im not surprised you dont get it, god damn bro. no, reading "dense theory" is not enough to impress me if that theory all comes together in the form of completely dysfunctional and extremely harmful ideas

>>18031372
>great books collection on bottom shelf
>possesses other books despite having great books
>has never read great books, has never committed to reading them
you are repugnant. you possess nearly all of western cannon at your disposal, a nigh exhaustive collection of the ideas and thoughts that underpin our Zeitgeist, and you keep them on the bottom shelf, so obviously untouched, behind switch and ps4 game boxes.

with adequate comprehension as your object, you might never get through them all in a lifetime. I have had them for 2 years have have just finished aquinas. just fucking sell them as a set for $100 to someone that will actually read them

>>18034844
>stalin/xi/ literally any communist revolutionary leader will turn over the means of production any day now, trust me bro, communism actually does work irl like in theory
im sorry but criticism from people like you will not make me feel any sort of shame about my own observations lmao

>>18034695
>at least they're fucking engaging in this shit, unlike people like you who just shitpost all day and express their opinions on things they have not read.
Leftists bloviate endlessly about fascism despite having read not a single word of _any_ foundational texts. I'm gonna have to pass on this argument.

>>18034867
>gets filtered without even attempting to read

>>18034695
wow yea man your strawman is completely correct, i never engage in any sort of political theory, no sir

>>18034891
>you just dont get it bro, if you read more theory it will completely alter the reality of the situation
now this is some juicy impotent rage

>>18031372
>>18031376
>>18031383
Your hoarding of books despite never reading them is functionally equivalent to the economic elite hoarding money.

>>18034865
A historical era only becomes a definite thing demarcated by specific events and embodying certain themes after it’s over when scholars create it. Therefore history is a post-hoc creative act and the present has no definite “nature” determining what is happening.
>you can't go beyond your place in your development and become a senile 60 year old when you're 20
No you can become a 60 year old when you’re 20 it just takes 40 years hehe

>>18032125
kek btfo

>>18034913
You are a retard

>>18034891
personally I read enough to know that marx himself said that communism was not something that would be established but would happen naturally, because "establishing communism" is something so completely and utterly retarded anyone who can think critically can see a mile away what would happen, even 19th century writers like dostoyevsky wrote precisely about how it would turn out decades before it ever happened, and if thinking critically isnt your strong suit, you have literal history books to explain real life examples, so every self identified communist is a retard spitting in marx's face who themselves knows nothing about marx's writings

i also know marx was completely incorrect in his own assertion that communism would be a logical next step, though understandably so, because he did not foresee hoiw the insudtral revolution would change society in the long term and did not see the advent of decadent liberalism stopping the potential natural development of communism

in the end communism will never be established, and will never happen naturally either. thats pretty much the main takeaway from reading marx. the only contribution he made was his criticisms of how working class people are treated, that's literally it.

i really wish communists could actually read marx so we could all collectively move on and look for real viable solutions to our problems instead of endlessly circle jerking over debunked ideas while the world burns

>>18035044
>the only contribution he made was his criticisms of how working class people are treated, that's literally it.
thanks for admitting that you didn't read it

>>18035117
>it
?

>>18035129
Das Kapital obviously

>>18031383
>Settlers
Based

>>18031268
meh, i've seen more space than that being occupied by a single work of islamic theology

>>18035155
so like...what are you trying to say here then exactly? marxs criticism of the way working class people are exploited is not relevant because you dont think that was relevant to the one specific book of the many books we wrote, which this conversation is in no way referencing specifically? no less, one which revolves around the inner workings of capitalist modes of production and the exploitation of labour?
im genuinely confused lol

>>18034839
>It didn't work
It is working, the dialectic is still in motion, and Xi holds the world-spirit.
>>18034881
Man, people don’t get Marx, his work was an attempt to collate all of history and read it, producing the “final interpretation.” An ambitious project to be sure, but one we can and should continually build upon. To speak more generally, that’s really what philosophy is isn’t it, a project amongst hyper-intelligent people through history attempting to produce the ultimate definition of reality.

So when people talk of dogmatic Marxism it kind of misses the point. Yes there are dogmatic marxists, but they’re also missing the point! What the ccp has been doing is developing and improving upon Marxist theory. They still uphold Marxist ideals, see picrel, but edited elements that in the past have failed (they closely watched the USSR’s mistakes.)

>>18035292
thats cool and all but i dont want what china has and everyone who pushes me to become a leftist is shilling marx's original predictions for how society would evolve . you are correct in that both the ussr and china are both completely logical evolutions of marxs original thoughts which address its inherently broken nature i wish these idiotic western marxists could get it through their thick utopian skulls

>>18035044
Most of Marx’s writings are critiquing capitalism. He wrote very little about communism.
>i really wish communists could actually read marx so we could all collectively move on and look for real viable solutions to our problems
This always happens when a thinker/prophet/artists presents a new, complex idea and sycophants glom onto it and in doing so dumb it down. The ccp is the government creating “real viable solutions” to liberal hegemony as that liberal hegemony doubles down on its ideology in the face of mounting problems it itself spawned.

How does symbolic interaction via someone like Goffman fit into the Marxist worldview?
I can see how the necessity to participate in a class system and the labour market would determine how a person presents and behaves.

>>18035409
>i dont want what china has
Well you won’t get what China has. Here in the Anglosphere (idk if you also live here) we’re strengthening the worst aspects of our liberal-oligarchic system, it’s evolving into some neofeudal thing.
>i wish these idiotic western marxists could get it through their thick utopian skulls
Yea that won’t happen, “leftists” who talk about Marx are only interested in him for a revolutionary aesthetic. Once the meme candidate they shill for predictably fails they quickly bend the knee to the democratic establishment to defeat those “evil fascist conservatives.” They don’t realize this is a pattern they’ve been programmed to perform.

>>18035592
that pattern is probably one of the most sinister aspects in democracy imo. in every other system when people get pushed they eventually push back with force because there is literally nothing else to do, but in democracy the government can abuse the fuck out of you left and right, but when push comes to shove, the natural working class divisions that are fostered by a liberal democratic society that upholds relentless tolerance as a virtue will inevitably push people to fall in line and support their designated team of abusers in order to stop the "others" of the working class and the other designated team of abusers from "winning" the contest

its genuinely disturbing when you think about it and i find it incredible that democracy is still mostly considered an absolutely unquestionable value that is above anything but benign criticism about its bureaucracy or whatever. its a real testament to the the combined effectiveness of public education and mass media

>>18035704
This is all exactly right, the central myth of democracy is that an election is where the “will of the people” asserts itself, where self-reflective, sovereign individuals give their say, and their collective wisdom is the ultimate determinate of truth. This myth looks pretty ludicrous today with the panoply of conditioning possibilities presented by modern technology. Democracy could probably work well in a small, highly literate society but not in an age of empires.

>>18035792
>Democracy could probably work well in a small, highly literate society but not in an age of empires.
to be fair i think just about anything would, even utopian leftists can probably get their systems off the ground and working in smaller communities, before promptly being absorbed or wiped out by a more efficient system

>>18035912
Fair enough, I like states like edo Japan and Elizabethan England that have this autistic obsession with the arts, sure that governing style won’t last forever but no government does. Their art lasts though and continues to lift the consciousness of man, and that’s what I think is most important.

>>18031268
>>18031372
>>18031376
>>18031383
>>18031917
You literally cannot tell me that Marxism is not a religion.

>>18036108
Sure is

>>18036108
It’s clearly not the same thing as Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity etc. but yea it has zealotous adherents that base their life off it. This is true for many things tho. And if it did for some reason claim to be a religion why would that matter?

>>18036108
I thought it was funny when the bloke said people just need to read Marx for the truth. Literally mirroring what some Christian's say about other Christians, "they just need to actually read the bible to get the truth".

>>18036108
They explicitly state they are a religion. Avoiding "false consciousness" is one of the main tenets of communist doctrine. Anyone who possesses false consciousness, which is essentially equivalent to belief just like belief in Christ, Muhammad, etc., no matter if they're a proletariat or bourgeoisie, is immediately disowned and condemned as a "class enemy" (see: enemy of the faith).

They will never explicitly admit it, but it is so obvious with anyone who has examined their doctrines.

>>18031268

I bet he was well pissed when he felt it necessary to buy that Stalin 13 lmao

bump

Is Michael Heinrich a good introduction to Marxism? Was looking to read Capital and I’ve seen his intro to Capital recommended a lot

>>18037248
listen to all his talks on that are on youtube

>>18037248
and yeah it's good

>>18032214
The Class Struggle by Karl Kautsky
https://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1892/erfurt/ch01.htm

>>18036780
This is the most surface level analysis of Marxism I've ever seen

>>18031268
>No Kim Il Sung
You're not even trying

>>18031268
>>18031276
>Marxism
>Chad
Pick one.
Seriously nearly the entire earth is under the sway of the tribe at this point. Christians, Muslims, marxist Chinese roughly 5 billion. The greater part of the earth are mentally cucked by shitty kike ideas.

>>18037530
spooky

>>18037542
Stirner as well I reckon. In the capacity of a reactionary to M & E.

>>18037559
Indeed, the crypto-Jew is everywhere when you think about it, a “demiurgic force” if you will

>>18031376
if anybody could read that much david ricardo and live they wouldnt deserve to

>>18031268
>Selected Works of Lenin
>12 volumes

What the fuck?

>>18037749
He wrote articles, theory, policy, speeches etc. The fact that the right doesn't comprehend this shows how big a midwits they are. Disappointing.

>>18038401
>random anom
>the right
we got some great minds at work in this here thread

>>18038401
ew, go back mate

>>18031372
>amazon prime
How will Bezos ever recover?

>>18031383
This reminds me of something Schopenhauer said, it was along the lines of "people that read too much are retarded because they are incapable of thinking for themselves"

Being a marxist is the cherry on top

>>18039179

>>18038401
marxist-leninism doesn't work, brainlet

>>18037749
Russian here. Lenin's Complete Works are far more voluminous, I think there may be 40 or so volumes. That doesn't mean he was a good thinker as this guy >>18038401 seems to imply, the Soviets just worshipped him like a religious figure and they collected every single draft he wrote. I recall reading Bukharin's Economics of the Transitional Period with Lenin's notes he wrote on the margins of his personal copy. Lenin's notes on Hegel's Wissenschaft der Logik are among the most important sources on Marxist philosophy. If you want to jump into Lenin the only important works are
>What Is To Be Done
>One Step Forward, Two Steps Back
>The Development Of Capitalism In Russia
>April Theses
>Imperialism As The Last Stage Of Capitalism
>Materialism and Empiriocriticism
>State And Revolution

>>18039370
Was he a Christ-like figure?

>>18031372
>>18031376
Nice Switch, faggot

Has anyone read this here?

>>18031268
never in my life will I, a supreme german gentleman, understand why retarded anglos change german names. it's fucking Friedrich, not Frederick. who the fuck started this bullshit. You wouldn't write a fucking biography about Himmler and call it 'Henry Himmler' either would you. based anglos. guaranteed to make germans seethe

>>18034278
marx was not utopian. He wanted to see capitalism in western countries (as is said by his theory). Lenin and chinks were utopians, because they ignored marx's idea that communism is a product of capitalism and not an idea that you can use anywhere to your liking. While he was alive, marx wrote to russian socialists warning against using his ideas.

>>18031268
This is a lot of good econ but you need some history books imo

>>18036108
>>18036115
>>18036148
>>18036743
>>18036780
>sees that marxists read a lot, gets feelings of inferiority, rationalizes them by building a straw man of marxism to feel good about themselves
pathetic, you should know yourself

>>18039514
Socialism doesn't fucking work

>>18031268
>All these books about a single man's ideas
Has it made your life or those around you any better with the information you have available?

>>18039537
because it did not happen in the capitalist countries, as marx suggested it would. >>18039499. unless youre talking about socialism as an utopian ideal, then youre right, it doesnt work.

>>18039593
Because Marxism is false

>socialism doesn't work!
>capitalism doesn't work!
opinion discarded.

>>18039610
capitalism does work

>>18039602
or maybe he just could not foresee a fucking world war

>>18039610
Do people actually read through the charts they post? This chart alone would take the average reader a year to complete.

>>18039662
I mean if youre interested in politics, I dont see how spending a year on essential political and philosophical theory could be hard

>>18039590
It's not a single man's ideas

>>18037257
>>18037257
Thank you. Not a communist but I figure I should get the best secondary material for it to understand it best understand Marxist viewpoints best I can.

>>18040142
Lmfao I had a stroke. Best understand Marxist views.