/lit/ - Literature

>>18031049
>Böll
>Contemporary
kek, also Schattenfroh

>>18031049
what about Christian Kracht? is he recommendable? they often mention Pynchon when they talk about him.

>>18031060
>Böll
>Contemporary
Contemporary for me is everything after 1945

>Schattenfroh
I've heard that it's a meme, is it any good?

>>18031073
>what about Christian Kracht? is he recommendable? they often mention Pynchon when they talk about him.
I like his style. Imperium is good, would recommend. I've heard comparisons to Céline, but I think that's more because of his political opinions.

>>18031126
I've heard about that scandal about him but I didn't know what was it about, I still don't for the most part. I thought it's just more pc bull.

>>18031060
>Schattenfroh
Literally part of the German meme trilogy

>>18031049
>Heinrich Böll, and also Das Parfum by Patrick Süskind

How are these contemporary?

I will always recommend the bibliography of Max Frisch. I recently read Gantenbein (In German "Mein Name sei Gantenbein") and I quite enjoyed it.

>>18031126
>Contemporary for me is everything after 1945

Okay, but that's not what contemporary means so you should probably find another word to describe what you want.

>>18031179
>Okay, but that's not what contemporary means so you should probably find another word to describe what you want.
I'm sorry, what should I call it? In German "zeitgenössische Literatur" is considered everything after WW2.

>>18031171
>Max Frisch
I have Homo Faber lying around somewhere. Is it also good?

>>18031126
>Contemporary for me is everything after 1945
that would be post-war

>>18031166
kek i made that pic. why do you think i recommended it lol?

>>18031049
Don't mind me, just posting the greatest German poet since Goethe.

>>18031212
that's not Ortlepp

>>18031218
That's not Holderlin.

>>18031200
I read it in school and didn't think much of it then, read it again years later and loved it. It's a brief read anyway, I say go for it. Probably the best entry-point for Frisch' novels, as it is overall rather easy to follow. Read it first, then Stiller, then Gantenbein.

>>18031212
That's not Georg Heym.

>>18031163
>I thought it's just more pc bull.
It mostly is. Nazis are living rent free in the heads of German journalists, everyone who deviates from their very strict beliefs is literally Hitler to them.

>>18031243
>Probably the best entry-point for Frisch' novels, as it is overall rather easy to follow. Read it first, then Stiller, then Gantenbein.
Thanks anon!

>Zettels Traum
Man kann es so sehen wie es hier in den übrigen Rezensionen zu lesen ist. Man kann es aber auch mit den Augen eines ganz normalen Menschen sehen, der mit beiden Beinen im Leben steht, und der sich gerne zuweilen an kulturellen Erzeugnissen der bildenden Kunst erfreut: Ein solcher Mensch, der noch in der Lage ist, zwischen gut und schlecht, zwischen dem 'Nützlichen' und dem 'Unnützlichen' unterscheiden zu können, ein solcher Mensch also dürfte nur zu einem Urteil kommen: Zettels Traum ist der größte Blödsinn, den man sich vorstellen kann! Es ist eines dieser pseudointellektuellen Machwerke, die mit erhobener Augenbraue und gerunzelter Stirn diskutiert werden (wie eine Schrottoper von Henze), weil sie keiner wirklich verstanden hat und weil keiner etwas damit anfangen kann. Nur, wer spricht so etwas offen aus? Es ist dieses (zeit-)typische Phänomen, das uns auch begegnet, wenn wir in einem Museum für 'Moderne Kunst' den Betrachter entdecken, der mit bewunderndem Blick vor den sinnfreiesten Schmierereien stehen bleibt und versucht, die "versteckte Botschaft" zu analysieren.
Zettels Traum hat keine Botschaft (und wenn, dann dürfte es wohl nur eine Botschaft ohne sittlichen und geistigen Nährwert sein). Wir haben es hier mit einer buchstäblichen übergroßen Veralberung zu tun. Aber offensichtlich hat dieser Quatsch sein Publikum gefunden!
Mir ist das Buch von einem Bekannten ausgeborgt worden, der es einst geschenkt bekam und damit nichts anfangen konnte. Jetzt ist mir klar, warum! Empfehlenswert ist das (in Größe und Gewicht) monumentale Buch einzig als belustigendes Schauobjekt, mit dem man jeden Betrachter in Erstaunen versetzen kann.
Wer sich die Lust und Freude am Lesen allerdings nicht verderben möchte, der wird sich wohl weiterhin jener Literatur zuwenden, die ohne gewollte Rechtschreibfehler und irritierenden Kritzeleien und Korrekturen auskommt.

>>18031304
>Zettels Traum ist der größte Blödsinn, den man sich vorstellen kann!
nicht bloß gefiltert, so sehr gefiltert, dass du das Buch nicht mal selbst ließt und kritisierst, sondern auf eine behinderte amazon rezension zurückgreifst. Ich würde mich schämen an deiner Stelle

>>18031304
Basiert

>>18031350
N E I N

>>18031344
I just found it funny. I never read Zettels Traum, and probably won't until I'm in my 50s or so. But that amazon review is the absolute epitome of a self-important midwit, I just had to share it. Utterly hillarious.

>>18031360
>probably won't until I'm in my 50s or so
at least you're open to it. based enough

>>18031368
Oh, I'm definately interested. But I'm of the opinion that you can't properly tackle these big works until you have read up a certain warchest of literature, so to speak. You don't start reading by diving into Finnegans Wake.

>>18031395
>But I'm of the opinion that you can't properly tackle these big works until you have read up a certain warchest of literature, so to speak
Don't fall for the memes, read what you like

>>18031446
I read what I like. I don't like to read Zettels Traum yet.
Btw, currently reading Faust 1 again. Just reached Walpurgisnachttraum. Hoping to start Faust 2 this weekend.

>>18031049
Daniel Kehlmann, has a lot in common with Süsskind, especially his two historical novels "Die Vermessung der Welt" and "Tyll". Those are also his most popular. Vermessung is good, Tyll is amazing.

>>18031468
>Faust 2
Faust 2 ist schwierig, aber es lohnt sich. Lies am besten eine Version mit Kommentaren, da werden Hintergründe und Bezüge erklärt, die man sonst wahrscheinlich übersehen würde.

>>18031166
>>18031211
Why is The Magic Mountain not on this

>>18031496
I partially read it before at uni. Got the annotated Reclam version, so I should be fine.

>>18031521
>annotated Reclam version
You'll be fine

>>18031505
feel free to make your own, it was just a proposal. There's a strong case to be made that gargantua should't be on there because literally nobody knows it or has read it. I only included it because it's obscure and kind of nutso

>>18031171
Currently enjoying reading Stiller and Ive read Homo faber. Will Gantenbein add more or does it feel repetitive at that point? (Diary style, questioning of identity, etc.)

>>18032196
Gantenbein is Frisch going all out with his ideas. I'd say it is his most ambitious work, while still being distinctly Frisch. It doesn't really follow one narrative, but rather a bunch of narratives that touch each other or intersect or overlap or spread out from one another, or are actually just a previous narrative told from a different perspective, and many (if not all) of these narratives are directly stated to be just dreamed up or imagined by the narrator. Gantenbein is MOSTLY about a guy who imagines what it would be like to pretend to be blind, so it follows the story of that guy pretending to be blind, how he lives his life, gets married, does his daily tasks etc. all while still pretending to be blind. A lot of the sections of the book are prefaced by a phrase like "Let's imagine Gantenbein as a father. He would do [such and such]". However, the narrator also assumes the roles of different characters, with a narrative completely (seemingly?) independent from Gantenbein. He also often backpaddles through his situations and continues writing them in a different direction if just one thing goes differently.
If I had to sum it up, I would call Mein Name Sei Gantenbein a tree of imaginations. Does it add more to Frisch' spiel of identity? I'd say yes, but mostly in how he executes it. It is probably the anti-Stiller. The protagonist does not deny an identity that he grows into, but instead assumes an identity from the start. If you enjoy Stiller, it is definately worthwhile.

I remember having to read Das Perfum in school and then we watched the film and it’s ends with that huge orgy scene, right? It was weird.

>>18032343
Sounds like a complete mindfuck

>>18031200
Homo Faber is alright, but his really outstanding writings are with his late works, Montauk and Man in the Holoscene in particular.

stups

>>18031505
it's under 25 only book.

>>18032384
I'd recommend reading the book, it's very different from the film.

>>18031581
>nobody has read Gargantua
That's the point of meme books, how many people do you think have read Infinite Jest?

>>18033998
>how many people do you think have read Infinite Jest?
I actually own it!
Still haven't read it though.

READ SOME FUCKING MOSEBACH

This is a rec.

>>18034495
Mosebach is fucking faggot and I can't stand his ugly mug. Are his books actually worth reading?

>>18031166
>Arno Zettels Schmidt Traum

I dont mean to be controversial but the world would be so much better off if Germany and Germans had never existed.
Its baffling how much destructive shit they have poured into the world in every possible discipline.

>>18034648
Filtered

>>18034522

Yes.

>>18034648

Your papers, please.

arnes nachlaß by siegfried lanz was pretty ok. Had to read it for high school

>>18035006
>Yes
please elaborate

>>18034495
>«Krass», dieser atmosphärische, bildstarke Roman über das, was das Verstreichen von Zeit mit Menschen tut, ist zugleich Liebesroman und Mephisto-Geschichte – manchmal aufgehellt durch leisen Humor, aber vor allem dunkel und in dieser Dunkelheit ergreifend schön.
Klingt interessant

>>18033626
fitzek is really good

>18034648
Posts like this make me think this board actually needs flags like /int/

>>18031200
>Germans measure time in terms of before or after WW2

>>18035849
Not really. Our time frames are just a bit longer. We are currently in the post-WW2 time. Doesn't mean everything before was "the pre-WW2 time", it just means there hasn't been an event significant enough since to divide the times further.

>>18035873
There was something in 1989 that some people consider wall breaking.

>>18037493
1989 didn't have that big of an impact on literature, believe it or not. It also didn't affect all Germans. Austria and Switzerland were mostly unaffected.

>>18031049
I think if you liked Böll then Lenz is the obvious next step. Same timeframe, also a modest realist short story delivery machine.

It´s a little weird that Grass isn´t in this thread yet, but he´s still the biggest postwar name, though Blechtrommel is going to be hard for non natives.

>>18031495
Is a logical connection. I haven´t read Tyll yet, but Vermessung is (not just in German) about the most emblematic contemporary novel I can think of.

>>18035849
You can't even begin to understand how traumatic WW2 was and still is for us. We lost millions of lives, we lost Prussia, we were partitioned in three parts, we lost our sense of national identity, our pride, and ultimately we lost our spirit. In a way Germany died in 1945 and has not yet been reborn.

>>18037683
I never touched Grass in any shape or form. What's really the deal with him? What makes him so prolific?

>>18038083
Fuck, I haven't read all his stuff. His poetry is sort of whimsical, not a lot of lyricism, but a lot of wit. Tin Drum spawned magical realism, it's a mega-maximalist WW2 book set in Danzig. I think it's widely accepted that he had a phenomenal start to his career but became worse while continuing to publish and sell shitloads.

>>18038083
>>18038224
Blechtrommel I found pretty good, although the last part (3rd part?) after the war imo doesn't really fit the previous.
The other work I read was Treffen in Telgte which was a fun.

>>18034648
Why do people feel need to shove their opinion everywhere they go even when no one asker? This thread is about German literature, if you have nothing to say pls fuck off

Are there any good female authors you'd recommend?

>>18039101
https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Spiegelgeschichte
is a great short story, but the only contemporary female Kraut I've read in Zeh, and she's embarassingly awful.

>>18039101
Even if I find her overrated compared to her contemporaries, I can recommend Lasker-Schüler's poetry.

>>18033998
well I made the original german meme trilogy pic and i read all three kek

>>18039338
>>18039357
Both Aichinger and Lasker-Schüler are Jews tho

>>18039655
Well, jews generally have a great literary tradition so that explains that.

>>18037811
>t. american
you are not german at all. kek die meisten Leute interessieren sich gar nicht für den zweiten Weltkrieg geschweige denn dass Preußen nicht mehr existiert.

>>18040587
>die meisten Leute interessieren sich gar nicht für den zweiten Weltkrieg geschweige denn dass Preußen nicht mehr existiert.
Stimmt, aber das ist nicht der Punkt. Unsere ganze Nachkriegsgesellschaft hat den 2.WK zum Gründungsmythos, genauer gesagt, dass Deutschland das ultimative Böse ist. Unsere Kultur ist von Grund auf vergiftet und unsere Volksseele ist geschunden. Zu sagen, dass es einen nicht interessiert, ist ein cope. Wirf einen Blick aus dem Fenster und sage mir, dass bei uns alles in Ordnung ist.

>>18040657
>Wirf einen Blick aus dem Fenster und sage mir, dass bei uns alles in Ordnung ist.
Ist doch relativ okay. Klar gibt's Probleme, aber deswegen ist nicht "unsere Volksseele geschunden" oder was auch immer du fürn Käse laberst.

>>18040657
>Wirf einen Blick aus dem Fenster und sage mir, dass bei uns alles in Ordnung ist.
kansnt genau des gleiche dem Engländer oder franzosen sagen und die haben den Krieg nicht verloren.
Der ganze Krieg und Judenhass ist ein scheiternder Mythos der immer wieder von gewissen Leuten wiederholt wird ohne dass er einen wirklichen Effekt erziehlt.
Was in dem Land schief läuft ist in all den anderen westlichen Ländern genau so gängig.
Für Kunst, Film, Musik, Literatur, Politik ist der zweite Weltkrieg irrelevant.

Has anyone read anything from Peter Sloterdijk?

>>18040695
>>18040714
>Für Kunst, Film, Musik, Literatur, Politik ist der zweite Weltkrieg irrelevant.
Der zweite Weltkrieg war eine kulturelle und politische Zäsur wie wir davor noch keine erlebt hatten. Die gesamte europäische politische Ordnung existiert nur wegen des 2.WK. Stell dir vor, der zweite Weltkrieg wäre anders ausgegangen, unsere gesamte Welt wäre eine völlig andere. Das allein zeigt ja schon, wie wichtig er war. Alles, was wir heute bei uns und anderen Ländern sehen ist eine logische Konsequenz des 2.WK.
Aber mehr will ich dazu gar nicht sagen, ist ja ein Literaturbrett.

>>18040776
>Alles, was wir heute bei uns und anderen Ländern sehen ist eine logische Konsequenz des 2.WK.
ok you fucking nigger that doesnt mean though that ww2 was so traumatic to germans today
>millions of lives, loss of Prussia, DDR, verlust der identität, stolz
you pretend like germany was always like that and not jsut during National Sozialismus.
If anything the national socialist movement was the msot traumatic thing away from the typical german narrative, mind and spirit.
Noone since 1990 gives any shit about any of the things old Wirtschaftswunder german (((politicians))) think are the myth underlying germany. It falls off like water from a coat. And to those older the effects are so greatly exaggerated.
You speak like how americans on /his/ would talk about modern germany or modern italy. Perhaps condign for anglo academia but absolutely removed from reality.
No one takes Schulz and his guilt shit seriously as was painfully obvious last election.

>>18031049
I like faust.

>>18042114
Based. Have you read Faust 1 and 2?

>>18031166
The fuck is this shit

Warum wird hier kein Deutsch geredet?

>>18043323
Weil Deutsche sich für ihr Deutschsein schämen.

>>18043159
Mental Illness.

>>18031049
Best book for learning german?