/lit/ - Literature

>>17985242
Check out Reign of Error by Diane Ravitch.

>>17985330
I'm familiar with her work. She's living in cloud-cuckoo land on so many issues.
Just as an example
>Every school should have a nurse, a psychologist and a guidance counselor

yeah alright, most can't even get enough teachers, but I'm sure there'll be enough Psych. doctorates who'll want to piss away their careers toiling in our failed public schools

>>17985242
I think the issue is mostly that many of these authors don't want to accept that learning is as dependent on the student as it is on the teacher, so they either want to dump all the responsibility on the teacher (hence the infinite specifications on how to organize the classroom so the little robots can absorb the information) or on the students (hence thinking that a positive environment is enough to make the little angels decide to reinvent civilization and usher in a new era of peace and love).
To answer your question, I guess there really isn't a 'good' pedagogical theory, as all authors will emphasize either the role of the teacher or the student as more important. But I would recommend to read the pioneers of movements, i.e. the jesuits for traditional education, Comenius, Piaget, Dewey, Montessori, etc. for "New school" education. Also check work from other disciplines, like sociology, philosophy and psychology to get a more general view of education.
From that you can use your judgement to figure out what works and what doesn't and work from there.
Unfortunately, there really isn't a specific theory that would help 100% for all educational needs, but at least there is enough written text for everyone to figure out what suits them.
Hope this helps

>>17986125
great post. thank you

>>17985374
It works in Japan, don't see why it can't work here.

>>17986125
Forgot to add that all these theories are based on a specific concept of what humanity should be, and that influences the education they propose (the ones that want a society based on reason will focus on intelectual abilities, the ones that want one based on productivity will focus on technical abilities and those who want a society based on morals will focus on teaching values) so you should keep that in mind when considering their teaching methods

>>17985242
>it's another 'black people can't learn' thread posted by a dropout who hasn't read anything outside of wikipedia and /lit/ since grade school

>>17986125
Great post, thanks anon

>>17986125
I want to replicate the Polgar experiment, but with math instead of chess. With that in mind, can you think of more specific suggestions?

>>17985242
Modern school isn’t about actually teaching.

>>17985374
I thought the psychologist and the guidance counselor were usually the same person. I mean I was under the impression that it's required to have a psychology degree to work as a school counselor.

Wilhem Meister's Journeyman Years
Among other things talked about: what is the aim of an education? What is the highest ideal form of education?
A 'generalist' education (I forgot the word used in my translation) or a 'focused' one? (I also forgot)
What are the implications both for the individual, and for society? And which should we hold paramount, above the other?
Or, is it, that through the betterment of the individual, we have an overall more prosperous society?
Or is that simply not the case, and top-down dogmas and traditions must be held steadfast, in order to maintain and promote continued prosperity and enlightenment?

>>17986786
Masters for GC, ideally in counseling itself
Doctorate for legitimate school psychologist, at least in my state.

>>17986255
"Race" even though the category is muddled, is a significant factor, every serious theoretician addresses it in some way.
American blacks score as high as Ukrainians and Greeks on the PISA, so it's literally not "black and white"

>>17986219
Do you want burger schools to work like Japanese schools?
You're trying to extract a singular part from a greater whole
If having psychologists means that burgerstan can get a real education system again, then great, I agree

>>17985374
"Should"

>>17986919
"poor people should have money"
there I solved the problem of wealth-inequality

>>17986125
>I think the issue is mostly that many of these authors don't want to accept that learning is as dependent on the student as it is on the teacher
Honestly it kind of is.
If you can't get a bunch of little children to respect you then what the fuck are you doing? And if a kid has problems in their home life then you do have a responsibility to them while they're in your care.
Once I taught a french class to a bunch of kids. Most of them were pretty well off, their parents put them there to learn french and paid good money for it, but there was one group of three siblings who were a mess. Their parents were on government assistance and they'd only put the kids in the program because it was free and they wouldn't have to watch them. They kids were obviously products of some kind of home abuse, they clung onto each other and wouldn't trust anyone outside of their immediate family. The youngest one, a little girl, was barely verbal and would often pee herself despite being 7 or 8 years old.
None of them had any kind of past training in french so they would completely ignore the lessons or cause trouble because they didn't understand anything.
Eventually I singled them out and started giving them special extra lessons during lunch break. At first they hated this, but I kept trying and kept finding ways to make it more tolerable for them. But I was strict enough that they would actually sit with me during lunch and see that as something they were required to do, and eventually I invented a D&D game where some scenarios would require using French, and I was able to teach them basic conversational stuff, how to say hello and goodbye and ask directions.
Many teachers are just in it for the paycheck and don't really care about their students. One school I taught with, it was a rural agricultural school, the principle used to call the Indian kids a bunch of ugly niggers. She was a real cunt, but that sort of mentality was widespread and as a result these kids were often shy and would just sit in the back of class and not ask questions. This wasn't a rich school, but people still showed up to get an education every day. What do most teachers do? They just go through some mind-numbing lesson plan, always calling on the same three model students at the front of the class, not really caring about knowledge for its own sake, and they let these kids down every single day. Then they play the victim when the kids finally stop giving a shit.
Fuck that. If you're a teacher you have a duty to your students to give them a good education. It doesn't matter if they're not some private school faggot who comes to class in a blazer every day attentively or if they're dirt poor, because knowledge is meaningful for great literature, my grandpa would take me to see a Shakespearean play every summer. There's a huge number of people who grow up without a single book in their household, and if you're a teacher these are the people you have a responsibility towards.

>>17987328
>knowledge is meaningful
*for its own sake

>>17986757
I don't know much about the Polgar experiment, but from what I understand from it, I would firstly recommend reading Polgar's work and continuing with cognitivism (Ausubel, Piaget, Vygotsky, etc.) , who talk about how we learn throughout our development and then read on the New School movement, which tried to adapt development theories to the school system.

>>17987328
Honestly I think a lot of teachers start out really caring about their students but later "burn out" and don't care anymore.

>>17987328
>There's a huge number of people who grow up without a single book in their household, and if you're a teacher these are the people you have a responsibility towards.

I disagree. you only have "responsibility" towards WILLING students.
if you can't teach a willing pupil something you're passionate about, then you don't deserve to be a teacher.
corralling the unwilling and tricking them into compliance despite their best efforts to fuck off and avoid it is called babysitting and your approach is a significant factor contributing to the mess American public schools are in.

public schools should be learning centers, not combination feeding troughs/interment camps

>>17989111
>public schools should be learning centers, not combination feeding troughs/interment camps
If kids are showing up to class then they are, on some level, willing to learn. Nobody is forcing them to show up at gunpoint, and if they are actively disrupting the class it's entirely in your power to dismiss them to the principle or to home.
The issue is that students are usually only willing to learn something if their teacher is actively inspiring them and they're being engaged. The willing students are going to teach themselves better than you would anyways.
Tell them anecdotes. Demonstrate that being knowledgeable can actually pay off in the real world. Challenge them. All most kids really need is a firm hand to steer them in the right direction.
You're an adult and you're surrounded by children, if you can't psychologically dominate them there's something wrong with you.

>>17989220
>>17989111
People are more alike than they are different. I've seen some of the best schools and some of the worst schools and the difference isn't the students, it's that the curriculum is challenging instead of patronizing and the teachers actually give a shit.
You make up this idea that only some children are deserving of an education, or that some of them are just wasting your time, but those kids aren't forcing you to be a teacher, that's a choice you made. Nobody is going to have a class of only the most brilliant, intelligent, motivated students, so learn to work with what you've got instead of grumbling.

>>17989220
>nobody is forcing them to show up at gunpoint

that's the exact situation though. Are you at all familiar with American public schools?

>just send them to the principal
I don't think you understand how broken the system truly is. I've personally never seen a kid get expelled, and this is after doing shit that would get a juvenile OR an adult charged and sued in the "real world"

>>17989256
>curriculum is challenging instead of patronizing

On this we can agree.
In a robust and functioning school, a certain rate of failure is to be expected.
high standards are definitely a good thing.
NCLB really fucked over American Education...which was in shambles to begin with.

>>17989257
Well that's fucked and I'm sorry for you then. Where I was working I could still smack kids if they got out of line. If you don't have any way to punish them then you're yeah you're pretty fucked.

>>17985242
why are there two signs for pencil?

>>17989299
look at the color of the hand. apparently blacks need a reminder

>>17989275
>In a robust and functioning school, a certain rate of failure is to be expected.
That's not the case in most of the best schools. It's just a method of psychological control used on mid-level schools. If you're systematically telling a chunk of your class every year that they're failures there's something deeply wrong with you.
Idk how free your hands are, but try to get rid of multiple choice tests altogether and require essays. It will let you give actual feedback to students and you can measure and encourage their overall progress instead of just positioning them on a chart.