/lit/ - Literature

Lolita is overrated and Nabokov is a hack who shat on writers far greater than himself because he couldn't understand them

>>17954535
Philosophy and Religion threads which don't reference a specific written work in the OP should be pruned.

>>17954535
I thought Moby Dick was boring, I don't think literature needs to be deep to be great, it just needs to be great at what it's attempting. If a pulp science fiction book is enjoyable and makes you visualize the story effectively its a good book.

>>17954535

What's happening here?

>>17954535
That one shouldn't start with the greeks but rather wherever they want. The greeks are great, love the guys, but it's really better to dive into what interests you I think

i don't like the iliad

>>17954589
>Wooden doors? Hmm...

>>17954556
I came into this thread to say this. The more I read his books and watch or read his interviews the more I realize his entire career was an elaborate game for him.

>>17954589
Elephant scratching his chin

>>17954593
This
start with Hegel

>>17954535
Women can't write for shit.
Oh wait that's not controversial at all.

Ulysses was a failed project and stream of consciousness was a dead end gimmick.

>>17954589
https://voca.ro/1mbIkb8en1e6

:3

>>17954603
Elephants dont have chins
in fact, humans are the only animals with chins, and their function is unknown

The only books worth reading are those written by males of the caucasoid race

>>17954618
You get what I'm saying. What the fuck is up with chins though. Do chimps have them? They're probably for more precise talking or something

>>17954594
Me neither, but im biased because we had to read and translate a lot of it in Greek class, and the teacher i had was a grade A cunt. She was a bitter middle aged dyke who only came out of the closet after her first marriage, and for some reason she really hated boys/men. I had Greek for 4 years and 3 of those i had it under her. Only one year i had under a younger teacher (think mid-20s, late 20s) with an obscenely huge ass that i would always look at when she was writing on the board.
If i had that teacher for 4 years, i probably would've loved the Illiad.

>>17954535
>most literary academia is bullshit; people who over-analyze (fiction mostly) books are wasting their time, as most of the time the themes aren't nearly as deep or complex as the academics think they are–less is more, as with most things in life.

>Some of the books that are considered "classics" aren't very good, while other books that have been ignored by academia are very good in actuality; a book should only be labeled as a "classic" if it was historically or socially relevant or groundbreaking.

>Genre fiction gets a lot of undeserved shit

>>17954586
I partially agree with this. While I don't think Moby-Dick is boring, I agree with the sentiment that a book just needs to be good at what it's attempting. If a book wants to show you something or make you feel a specific way, and it succeeds, then it's done it's job as a book, and can be classified as a good book.

>>17954636
Chimps dont have it either, only humans.

>>17954616
>https://voca.ro/1mbIkb8en1e6

Everything okay at home, subhuman?

>>17954644
>most literary academia is bullshit; people who over-analyze (fiction mostly) books are wasting their time, as most of the time the themes aren't nearly as deep or complex as the academics think they are–less is more, as with most things in life.
Yeah, it does feel like theyre more focused on being "novel" than anything else, which just gives incentive for whacky and stupid new ways to interpret something, whether it is true or not.

>>17954660
Just pissed off at how stupid people can be. :3

>>17954535
>19th century literature is very boring
>20th century literature is the best decade for lit
>there are still good books being released, some will be considered classics in the future still

>>17954681
>there are still good books being released, some will be considered classics in the future still
such as

>>17954645
what the fuck man

>>17954589

Just a huge, oscillating, dripping elephant cock at the beginning of the webm as far as I can see.

>>17954681
>20th century literature is the best decade for lit
I hate it, but I agree with this strongly; at the same time, we have to realize–as anons living in the 21st century–that the 20th century is the most familiar to us because it is the most recent; 20th century authors probably thought that the 19th century was the best decade for literature; 19th century authors probably thought the 18th century was the best for literature, and so on. At the same time, the 20th century was very different compared to previous centuries: quality of life and standards of living reached new heights in the civilized parts of the world, we gained access to quick and efficient communication technologies, mass literacy, and previously unheard-of amounts of information too

>>17954689
it's not the future yet retard

>>17954535
Dostoevsky is just okay. He needed an editor to cut at least half of each book.

>>17954535
Trannies, jannies and mods should be quartered, baked in the sun and fed to the vultures.

>>17954535
1920’s was the best decade for literature

>>17954776
>>17954786
unpopular or controversial, fellas

>>17954791
I got banned for posting that before last year so either a fuck ton of people reported me or there's a janny among us sniping people off boards.

>>17954535
You'd save years of your life by just reading summaries of books instead of reading books.

I've read pic rel, and it was actually good.

>>17954535
Women are gay

>>17954681
>>20th century literature is the best decade for lit
maybe if you only read novels lol.

>>17954586
I vehemently want to murder you.

>all these midwits ITT thinking their milquetoast pleb takes are "controversial"

>>17954535
they never forget

>>17954535
English women are better novelists than English men.

Scientific literature? That the biggest pay gap found is that between ugly and attractive people and every year it gets worse but no one will talk about it.

>>17954644
>then it's done it's job as a book
>then it is done it is job as a book
>it is done it is job

@_@

>>17954535
McCarthy was able to do everything Dostoyevsky did with half the pages and far better prose. Suttree alone destroys Dosto's entire body of work.

>>17954535
Achewood has the greatest characterization of any work in the English language.

>>17955952
McCarthy just understood the novel artform far better than Dostoevsky ever did, though I think Dostoevsky's understanding of human nature is in no way inferior.

>>17954586
you have made a correct point with an incorrect example

>>17954706
i like the way you talk

>>17955952
McCarthy's range and skill as a prose stylist far exceeds his range as a "novelist" in the sense that he is much better at describing desolate western landscape than he is writing about characters who aren't stoic cowboys

>>17954835
this might be the ultimate blackpill. you can try to suppress it, you can try to hide it, but deep down you know anon is not wrong...

>>17954535
The short story takes more skill, style, precision and nuance than a novel

>>17956177
I agree, but the novel has far more potential than a short story

>>17954616
Funniest shit I clicked on today

>>17954618
>their function is unknown
Chins are to accentuate the female face's beauty

Brautigan>all the beats
Pynchon>gaddis
KawabatA>mishima
Ted hughes>plath
Sassoon's war poems>wilfred owens's war poems
Ducks, newburyport>infinite jest

>>17956193
I can’t disagree that novels are more ambitious. I really think short stories are under appreciated here. They are a good way to sample a writer and I also think they improve a reader’s ability to comprehend texts

>>17954616
YESS got his ASS

>>17954535
I don’t think any. I often say that Giannis Ritsos is the greatest modern poet which earns me a lot of scorn, but he’s actually the only poet I’ve read from the 20th century and I’m sure there are others who are just as good. I really only say it because I’m greek and Ritsos is greek. I suppose a non-greek wouldnt really get him, all his poems are just greek imagery and soul. I believe Henry James is the greatest ever english-language writer, is that unusual?

>>17956258
Henry James gets a lot of respect in writing circles. He isn’t very accessible so not many readers just getting their feet wet get into him. He is very tedious at times but can often put into word what can only be felt

How come we're to believe climate change, a study that's only been 50 years or so when we still don't know much about dinosaurs

>>17956285
he’s also a master psychoanalyst

>>17954618
Faggot. Elephants have chins.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thedodo.com/amphtml/elephants-humans-chins-1081747724.html

>>17955740
Do you really think so?

>>17954535
the Odyssey >> the Iliad > the Aeneid

>>17956557
I believe there must have been a time when the water didn't have nose squishies

>>17956564
what?

>>17954535
he was right

>>17954556
>>17954584
>>17954586
>>17954593
>>17954681
>>17954767
>>17956177

I love the classics but I cant help agreeing with all of these.

If some of the same instances wouldn't have happened in real life, 1984 would only be regarded as a mediocre book

>>17954618
>t. chinlet

>>17954535
don quixote is bad. dickens is also bad.

>>17957202
How is Don Quixote bad?

>>17954535
That the current market is flooded with female writers and I find that the more females writers and female 'fans' there are the lower the quality and originality. I am talking about normie bookstores, not the ones I mostly like and you have too look a little bit father for.
But if the current climate of literature is filled with mediocre and bad female writers, there will be less good writers in the future, who think that's the normie level to achieve something.
I don't hate women, I despise modern female writers. Sad too think that literature was the only thing females greatly achieved in the past and now it's filled with garbage.

I think this board talks too much about women.

>>17954535
BOTSS > BOTLS > BOTNS

>>17957202
The Pickwick Papers is hilarious.

>>17956126
McCarthy has only one good stoic cowboy, and that is Billy (fuck that impotent sensitive bitch JGC). His southern gothic work is super underrated. Suttree, Harrogate, Ballard and even Culla are very psychologically interesting characters without having a single thought on paper (slight exceptions for Cornelius and Gene). People call him the greatest observer of landscape but he is the greatest observer in general, nobody can sell you a character just with dialogue and actions quite like him.

>>17956209
>pynchon>Gaddis
Isn't this the popular opinion?

>>17954703
You have impure thoughts

>>17954535
There's nothing supernatural about Judge Holden. A human like that could've existed.

>Rimbaud, the "classic" Chinese novels and Ibsen are highly overrated
>The works Kafka published in his lifetime are much better than those published after his death
>Kundera is the best postwar author and it's not even remotely close
>Anglo-Saxon verse is the peak of "English" poetry
>Propertius is the best Latin language poet, the other Macaenites all suck major dick

>>17957786
what?

>>17954586
I like Moby dick, but im gonna start saying it sucks to piss off lit tards

>>17958321
Book of the short sun and long sun are better than Book of the new sun. A retard's opinion basically.

>>17954644
>those greentext points
I knew a post ITT would have something like that
and I agree completely with them, especially point 1.

>>17954535
The Master and Margarita is awful. Cringy. The middle part is insanely boring. Margarita turning into a witch and flying is the worst thing in any literture I've ever read. The parts with Popota the cat aren't even funny

>>17957711
Based. Though females were never good

>>17957082
It made me so happy when she lifted her trunk and took a breath.

>>17956487
Yes, though that isn’t an insult to the men. I just think the women are very good. Granted I haven’t read a lot of Dickens or any of Trollope or Hardy. I’ve heard good things about Hardy so I’ll check him out this summer

>>17959080
Which female english authors are your favourites?

>>17959096
Wuthering Heights is one of my favorite books but Emily is kind of a one hit wonder. Austen probably has the most good books. I think the humor in Emma feels really modern which surprised me. Woolf has the rare combo of being boring but worth reading. The Bronte family is very impressive and I always count them as one for some reason. Emily is lit’s waifu as she was probably schizoid. Shelley had a once in a lifetime idea but didn’t execute it as well as she could have. Eliot is great. Middlemarch doesn’t get it’s props here. I didn’t like it for the first 100 pages but then it hooked me. I’m paraphrasing but the “you prefer her, don’t you”, “I prefer her as I prefer breathing” is one of the greatest passages.

>>17954616
KEK

>>17954556
when i read nabokov i feel like i'm talking to an anvious phd student at a party who's had a few and is trying to be debonair when his conversation is really screaming "I AM A SMART AND CLEVER BOY PLEASE LOVE ME LOVE ME LOVE ME LOVE ME etc"

>>17954618
it's a structural effect of walking upright, like our big toe

>>17954535
Novels are the lowest form of literature
Thus far I've found French lit to be extremely overrated

>>17954593
This is just contrarian. If you're reading Philosophy then starting with the Greeks is integral to understanding the course and context of western thought over the past 2000+ years. Even for non-philosophical literature you should at least have a basic understanding of Classical mythology.

>>17954616
>>17956199
>>17956243
>>17959363
samefag

>>17959725
https://voca.ro/171ORdzBmhky

:3

>>17959029
Yeah i was kinda disappointed by it too. It bothers me how Margarita just ends up getting everything she wanted and how the Pontius Pilate plot line and the main plot really don't seem to have much of a connection.
It was fun, but I don't see why everyone loves it so much. It seem to be kinda like the adult equivalent of Harry Potter

>>17954681
>20th century
>best decade

>>17959838
What's wrong with that decade kevin? The 19th century sucked in comparison.

>>17954645
Sasquatch have them.

>>17959843
ur bait is weak

>>17954616
Nice

>>17954616
are you the guy who got mad at sneeds feed and seed lol

>>17954584
This is not an unpopular opinion, this is a definite board improvement.

>>17954616
Brilliant

>>17954535
Fanfiction is good and some of it is better than actual literary works.

>>17955952
>far better prose
What the fuck are you on amerimutt. Not everything is inherent to english language

>>17960338
Dosto's prose isnt that great

>>17960338
Nabokov called Dosto's Russian prose as pedestrian, and he could read in both languages.

>>17961292
this.
what a corny read

Yes to the original post and all the answers.

>>17960263
You are transitioning and should promptly join the encroaching 50%.

>>17959653
>Novels are the lowest form of literature
this is not remotely controversial.

>>17956557
How can you say this.

I genuinely don’t think God is real

Eli Wiesel is a giant fucking hack and its disgusting that his works are being praised and read in schools. The bullshit he writes is insane, it's up there with lampshades and bone-soap.
Come to think of it, most Holocaust literature sucks, except maybe Viktor Frankl. At least anne frank has the excuse of being a girl.

>>17961920
>>>/pol/

>>17954616
Based.

>>17954616
lmao

If you don't like a book, fucking don't read it and don't make a fucking 4chan post you maroon faced rabbit fuck

>>17954535
Ken Kesey is one of the better American novelists

>>17961589
On here it seems like most people read novels but barely touch poetry beyond the major epics.

>>17960953
Yeah and? That snob was always full of himself.

>>17961292
>>17961313
All I ever heard about him here (Brasil) is that he's a joke
but his books mostly sell abroad, and a lot

>>17961693
allow yourself a moment of Faith with all your being to try and FEEL God in your heart and soul

>>17954535
Ulysses is the worst try hard lol so randum Bullshit I've ever read.

>>17955952
>prose
They're different languages retard.

>>17954535
Fiction is unsatisfying. Non fiction gives me more dreams.

>>17954620
Agreed.

>>17964675
I smoke too much weed to get dreams. what kind of dreams do you have?

>>17954606
Frankenstein was good.

>>17954535
I'm not sure if it's controversial but Ender's Game is easily the worst book I have ever read.

>>17954535
Animal Farm isn't a good book. I understand it's an allegory for Stalinism but it's very on the nose and frankly not interesting enough in its character interactions.

>>17954616
>>>17956199 >>17956243 >>17959363 >>17960046 >>17960175 >>17962093 >>17962435

You must be at least 18 to post here, lame zoomers.

>>17954535
Genre fiction is enjoyable.

Reading is fun and intellectual attitudes only stifle the life to be found in lit (or any art)

>>17954616

>>17954644
I think people in academia understand that if they are not completely stupid. The thing is you got to make money and if you are not talented enough to write books you go teach and want to make yourself more important and you dont get there by saying "oh its all subjective, my opinion about a book after years of teaching is almost just as valid as anyone's"

>>17955816

Bait or ape tier IQ?

>>17954636
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-do-humans-have-chins-15140492/#:~:text=Over%20the%20years%2C%20researchers%20have%20thought%20up%20a,helps%20buttress%20the%20jaw%20against%20certain%20mechanical%20stresses.

>>17956461
is this article seriously implying we're more related to elephants than we are to chimps?

>>17955952
I enjoyed Suttree far more than Blood Meridian. All the Pretty Horses isn't appreciated enough either, probably because it was popular upon release so scholars chose to ignore it.

>>17954535
>What controversial or unpopular opinions do you hold on literature
Shakespeare is bad. Poorly written toilet humor with nothing good that he didn't steal from better works.
In fact, plays aren't meant to be read at all and it detracts from the creator's vision of their own work for you to read them.
Poetry is better when it's free verse.
Reading Homer is a waste of time. His writing isn't great and the themes he covers have been done better by modern authors thousands of times over. In fact, there isn't a single character Homer writes who is better written than a character from a Stephen King book. If you read Homer more than once, you're a pseud.

>>17957786
Disgusting

>>17968978
I agree that Shakespeare sucks

>>17956557
Iliad > Odyssey >>> Roman Fanfiction

>>17968978
why are you even here lol

American lit is shit.

I've read the highschool canon and I found it utterly mediocre. The Great Gatsby, Fahrenheit 451, Slaughterhouse-Five, The Old Mand and the Sea, The Sun Also Rises, all mediocre or borderline shit.

Now you'll say "but anon, why do you think highschool tier books is an accurate representation of american literature, you're an idiot". And I'll reply "in Portugal they read Saramago, Pessoa and Camões, in Italy they read Dante, Pirandello and Buzzatti, in Russia they read Dosto, Tolstoy and Turgnev, in Serbia they study Selimovic and Andric; and all of those are pretty fucking great."

>>17954535
I hate my mother language main epic work.