/lit/ - Literature

>>17941632
Fuck off to /pol/

>>17941632
>even if it's co-opted by the elites
So you agree that every revolution was forced by the power thristy elites? Good.
>with the nearly complete elimination of tradition in favor of a globohomo
Technically, there is nothing wrong with globohomo and LBGT rights. It's just that conservatism states that changes should not be rushed. If society fully accepts new change, then that is the best choice.

Tories have been in control of the UK for years, Macron and Merkel dominate Europe. Conservatism is thriving.

>>17941632
Aldous Huxley said communists would rule the world bc they're the only ones w structure. Finance,education,media,the currency,big tech and most of the think tanks. Conservatives are midwest types. They dont have the inclination for politics. Its quite pathetic we can't in this area.

>>17941772
Who do you think it’s thriving for because it certainly isn’t for the majority of people living in these countries.

>>17941798
>communists would rule the world bc they're the only ones w structure
Why is a structure necessary? Is there a historical precedent when theorizing in politics actually worked?

>>17941813
>Why is a structure necessary?
Imagine google w 1 employee vs how ever many they actually have. What differences would you see?

>Is there a historical precedent when theorizing in politics actually worked?
Yes. Just not to your benefit more than likely.

>>17941772
None of those are conservative lmao

>>17941854
>Imagine google w 1 employee vs how ever many they actually have. What differences would you see?
But it worked fine before any theory
>Yes. Just not to your benefit more than likely.
Can you give examples?

>>17941768
You can't have successful revolution without the elites, without them you get French revolution which resulted in chaos

>>17941646
This. This post isn’t rooted in literature in any way, it’s just a high school level rant.

>>17941877
It has Kaczynski quote in the OP

>>17941798
Communists don't have structure, they are against hierarchy

>>17941908
They are against capitalist hierarchy, not hierarchy in general. They are for the dictatorship of the proletariat.
t. former follower of communism

>>17941860
>But it worked fine before any theory
???

>Can you give examples?
Yes. The covid control grid you're living through rn. This is politics anon.

>>17941632
>Conservatism has managed to conserve absolutely nothing in the last 100 years.
We have a functional economy, judicial system, we can still train people to become engineers and chemists, there are still choirs and symphonies making music, I can still visit a museum, most European cities still have their old architecture.

Conservatism has already won, we dont life in some kind of communist "utopia" where everyone lives in communal commie blocks and has group sex.

>>17941908
More structure than conservatives.. Magnitudes more. And it's not communism really. It's more like banking elite taking what they want and domesticating you. The commies just loot the scraps. Commie politicians reap greater rewards or anyone who plays a crucial role in the plans.

>>17941908
>>17941920
You're both right and wrong at the same time. Communism is a very broad movement with competing methodologies that range from the most stringent of state hierarchies to the complete abolition of all hierarchies that aren't rooted in the most basic of necessities for society to function (teacher > student, parents > children, etc.). It's why you should generally discount people who make overly broad statements about communists. Most people just equate "communist" with 20th century Marxism-Leninism of the USSR and sometimes Maoism. The majority of important communist theorists exist well outside of those paradigms.

>>17941920
Doesn't sound very classless or is that just the socialism step. Do communists intentionally confuse their own ideology to outsiders or are they themselves confused by it?

>>17941942
That has nothing to do with conservatives, OP is talking about traditional values, Christianity is dead and progressivism became the new religion of the west

Still voting trump

>>17941942
>Conservatism has managed to conserve absolutely nothing in the last 100 years.
>We have a functional economy, judicial system, we can still train people to become engineers and chemists, there are still choirs and symphonies making music, I can still visit a museum, most European cities still have their old architecture
For now, societal collapse is coming within 30 years.

>>17941952
>The majority of important communist theorists
Important for whom? Marxism-Leninism and Maoism are THE Communism, regardless of your personal feewings, for the whole planet Earth for 100 years already. Sectarian notions of marginal political cults infinitely far from attaining power anywhere anywhen aren't of interest to anybody but the cultists themselves.

>>17941632
>>17941973
>For now, societal collapse is coming within 30 years.

And the conservatives will have a target. It's not as if we literally didn't just go through this a century ago.

>>17941632
Because

1. The conservative tradition is literally just liberalism. It directly came from British liberalism, just with more of a focus on preserving the past and slowing down progress.

2. And as a result of that, that’s all the conservatism does: slow down the progress. Inevitably we still develop and change because modernity erodes everything and deteriorates everything. Technology is what moves history forward and conservatives do nothing but utilize it slower than others. Eventually it still catches up to them and changes everything. Every fucking person born before 1945 would kill themselves at the sight of the world today and think that today’s conservatives are degenerates

>>17941632
Yo man,chill out

But modern conservatism is progressive
Its whole point is to slow down progress, it's to filter as much as possible the good from the bad progress since we can't know what progress is actually good

>>17941632
>Conservatism has managed to conserve absolutely nothing in the last 100 years.
This is such dumb rhetoric. Everything that exists has de facto been conserved.

>>17941994
Literally to anyone in the realm of philosophy, sociology and modern political science. Your notion of relevance seems to only apply insofar as it relates to professed state ideology and not to the actual ideas that are common place throughout politics and economics as a whole. The fact that you label this as "cult" like is telling in and of itself. There is no "THE" communism as there is no "THE" capitalism nor "THE liberalism" or any other "-ism" for that matter. They don't exist in a objective, unchanging form, anon.

>>17941632
>The left is so dissatisfied at the state of the world because of their deep-seated inner dysfunction that they put their entire being into trying to make it better. They don’t know how to enjoy their lives so they have to attack the lives of others.
here is the small part of this rant that is true

>>17941858
how are you defining conservatism then, those who oppose small-l liberalism and want to return to an ideologically pre-1789 world?

>>17941942
>Implying a functional economy and judicial system come from conservatism and not old school revolutionary liberalism

>>17941632
Do you really think that the conservatives are about cultural preservation? Congratulations on drinking their koolaid

>>17942274
literally, because he's retarded

>>17941960
You are just uneducated and you have a cartoonish view of Communism, and you're surprised that reality doesn't match your caricature. This isn't on them, it's on you.

>>17941632
That's not true, they've conserved Leon trotskys legacy as a warning against communism

Muslims are the only conservatives left in today's world.

>>17941942
>We have a functional economy,
Gay ass technophile
>judicial system,
Which is a joke meant to keep the elites in power
>we can still train people to become engineers and chemists,
So that they can create more technology to enslave us
>there are still choirs and symphonies making music,
Name one new composion that is comparable to anything crrated in the 18th century
>I can still visit a museum,
Thanks to Corona lockdown no
>most European cities still have their old architecture.
Maybe france and italy

>>17942274
>>17942568
>supporting neo Liberalism lgbt and open borders is "conservative"
Retards

>>17941632
>Conservatism has managed to conserve absolutely nothing in the last 100 years.
Yeah there is actually nothing here now that was here in the 1920s

>>17942665
Based post

>>17941632
>in favor of a globohomo world where diddling little children is becoming normalized,
Those *are* conservative values. Start with the Greeks.

yeah
and we see the results today
truly utopia

>>17941866
wasnt the french revolution spearheaded by liberal elites?

>>17941632
Conservatism is just the name for the people who notice that their civilization is falling apart. You can't stop the process of civilizational collapse once it has begun, every civilization dies eventually when various institutions appear which gain enough power to destroy the normal structures that kept the civilization functioning.

>>17941632
take the rapture-pill and help rebuild an intellectual foundation for conservatism:
https://youtu.be/EvkhZYEWl5o

>>17941810
The tories are the single most successful political party in the world when measured by years in power vs the Labour opposition

>>17941632
>Projection: the post

>>17943993
pretty based

>>17941632
read Moldbug

>>17944091
>tories winning = conservatism winning
football fan mentality

>>17944082
based aristocratic patrician effort

>>17941646
Seething retard

>>17941632
>He thinks free speech is a conservative value
Stopped reading there.

>>17944287
Leftism is anti-freedom

Well, first, the antithesis to Conservatism is Liberalism, not Leftism. There are, in fact, Conservative Leftists.

Second,
>change/progress is always good and can forever improve

All that can be said to this: cringe.

>>17944327
So is conservatism proper. Right wingers for the majority of their existence didn't support freedom of speech, you got punished for blasphemy or for insulting the king. Wanna claim that monarchism or the catholic church of the old days were left wing? The idea behind free speech is enlightenment thinking about how humans are rational and individualism is good and the best idea will inevitably win in the market place of ideas since humans are rational. Serious right wing thinkers reject enlightenment thought, those that don't are conservatives in name only.

The idea that the Conservatives conserve little isnt fully true, time simply moves forwards.
They believe in small government, and interfering little in the affairs of private citizens.
This basic sense of liberty allows for adaption in key areas of life, like technology, work, and the private home. It allows for everyday people to do as they please.
The Conservatives are non radical. Yes they have issues, in that they struggle to counter left initiatives. The Conservative politicians tend to be older, very successful, and happy to count their money and sit in the inertia of wealth.

The so called radical, progressive left, is actually regressive, and also stagnant.
They are extremely limited.
They have no philosophical ideas, and never have. Outside of the basic material concerns of worker pay and time off they have no intellect.
Their economics are tribal, outdated and tested to failure literally thousands of years before being mistakenly attributed to Marx.
Since his time they have been tested to failure across something like 30 different nations around the world.
They simply seek to tear down what others have built. Their real theory is built on envy and incompetence, moving backwards.
How successful can they ever be? Theyll ruin their own society just to inconvenience others. They think the rations of grain handed out to the citizens of Rome will be a fresh and revitalising political marvel, the soviet breadline stretching back to the ceasars. They reach for only the most ethereal and insubstantial dreams, a past that never was framed as their utopian future that can never be.

>>17944378
Revolutionary ideology is more prone to tyranny than traditional forms of government, because its fundamental incoherence requires it to exert absurd amounts of control over every citizen, whether this the kulak treatment or bureaucratic hyper-regulation. Feudal serfs were literally and unironically freer than a modern wage slave in the UK or whatever

>>17944221
>Seething retard

>>17944481
Seething and retarded
Also get contact lenses will make you look like a person.

>>17944439
This

>>17941632
Conservatives are an opposition party. Their primary political focus is to oppose whatever their oppenent pushes for.
True conservation can only happen under an active party who wishes to push forward. Not through one who lives in the past.

Because conservatism is more of a vague disposition than a set of policies. It allows bad actors to take advantage of people who hold it.

>>17944378
Support free speech when out of power, clamp down on it when in power. Simple really

The big issue "conservatives" have is that they allow themselves to be called "conservative". No one really likes to be called such. Does anyone really like "conservative" works of art that don't attempt anything new, "conservative" scientists that don't want to hear about new theories, etc.? No. The issue here is that many things "conservatives" defend can legitimately be considered a form of social progress (insofar as they allow a society to become wealthier, more powerful, etc.) when viewed from a world-historical perspective, rather than the preservation of time-honored traditions or whatever. Really, the idea of "progress" as trending towards equality seems almost idiotic if you stop to think about it. Practical leftism in the West ends up amounting to trying to reverse social progress (in the sense above) to promote social equality and protect perceived victims, which is largely rooted in REACTION to WW2.