/lit/ - Literature

>>17931609
>believes might makes right
Anon, I don't know where you took this. Also, be grateful to Xenophon for passing his work on without claiming it as his own.

>>17931609
>believes might makes right
The biggest meme. He didn't.

>>17931649
>>17931659
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzHOqjMHwY&ab_channel=SohailKarman

>>17931659
Proof?

>>17931687
>posts a youtube video instead of quote from the actual book
lol

>>17931649
>Anon, I don't know where you took this.
Paul Shorey calls Thucydides "a cynic devoid of moral sensibility".[42] In addition, he notes that Thucydides conceived of human nature as strictly determined by one's physical and social environments, alongside basic desires. Thucydides' work indicates an influence from the teachings of the Sophists that contributes substantially to the thinking and character of his History.[45] Possible evidence includes his skeptical ideas concerning justice and morality.

>>17931721
Its the melian dialogue, its a direct transcription from a book you absolute retard

>>17931727
Yeah but where in the book? I read the Peloponesian war and I don't see why someone would claim that.

>>17931687
>>17931727
>a youtube video and a wikipedia article
anon, please tell me you actually read thucydides.

>>17931733
It doesn't mean that Thucydide believed in "might makes right" in any way, shape or form.

>>17931741
>>17931742
>>17931748
first of all, this was common consensus in ancient greece either way, second of all, have you even read the melian dialogue?

>>17931742
>>a youtube video and a wikipedia article
>anon, please tell me you actually read thucydides.

>>17931787
Just answer the question: did you read the entirety of Thucydides or just read/listen to excerpts and read a wikipedia article?

>>17931609
>simple language
lmao you wish

>>17931748
Half of the book is about the importance of strength and bravery..??

>>17931805
greek is a vague language

>>17931798
>Just answer the question: did you read the entirety of Thucydides or just read/listen to excerpts and read a wikipedia article?

>>17931742
>NOOOOO THE ONLY THING THAT CAN CONTAIN INFORMATION IS BUK

>>17931787
I already said that I have read the Peloponesian war. You do know what book am I talking about, right?

>>17931812
Who the fuck told you how to read like such a retard?

>>17931879
So, how do you explain thucydides portrayal of the melian dialogue

>>17931886
your mother

>>17931895
That's not a socratic dialogue anon, you have to put it in context.

>>17931845
So that's a no. Read a book before trying to speak about it you fucking pseud.

>>17931905
I talked about the person, nowhere did i mention the book deliberately, i referenced instances in which my understanding of thucydides as a person form, all you did so far is cry about my literacy because of your insecurities.

>>17931609
>writes hundreds of pages of puro kino
>makes shit up, relates folklore, loose about 'facts' and 'historical accuracy'
>becomes founding author of history in western literature
>just a bunch of crazy tales and hearsay
Thucydides will always be the second comfiest of the ancient historians

>>17931964
shit, forgot pic

>>17931904
Melos was some small shithole that tried to reason with athens, they tried to stay neutral, but athens didnt care about morality, so they BTFO'D them, Thucydides made the athenians say "the strong do what they want and the weak suffer what they must"

>>17931964
Plutarch’s the comfiest?

>>17931609
>>No specific literary branch, simply a scribe
He knew he was writing an history.
>>believes might makes right
And how did that end for the Athenians?
>>simple language, complex writing style
I don't think you've read him in the original language.
>>has meaningful irl achievements
He showed up late and got exiled.

>>17932003
Did he ever call himself a historian?
>>17932003
>And how did that end for the Athenians?
Might made right
>>17932003
>I don't think you've read him in the original language.
Greek is a vague language, thucydides is a complex writer
>>17932003
>He showed up late and got exiled.
KINO

>>17931988
God how dumb are you? I know what is the melian dialogue. I meant that it is a HISTORICAL book, not philosophy. So be putting the dialogue IN CONTEXT, you can see that yes, the athenians abuse their strength, but it doesn't mean that Thucydide believes in "might makes right".

>>17932003
>He knew he was writing an history.
Did he ever call himself a historian? Historians were known as scribes right?
>>17932003
>And how did that end for the Athenians?
Might made right.
>>17932003
>I don't think you've read him in the original language.
Greek is a vague language, Thucydides is a complex writer.
>>17932003
>He showed up late and got exiled.
KINO.

>>17932026
>History is unbiased
Perikles didnt do a single wrong thing in the entire book, I wonder why? You know he wasnt there right? He made that shit up.

>>17932045
I never claimed that history was unbiased, I said that you can't make claim about either of the two historians philosophy only with the dialogues of their historical work. People like you should be given a pc and kept away from books.

>>17932067
>People like you should be given a pc and kept away from books.
shit ad hominem

>>17932075
Anyway, if you want to stop being a pleb, read the book (it's called the Peloponesian war in case you didn't know) instead of listening to youtube.

>>17932067
>I said that you can't make claim about either of the two historians philosophy only with the dialogues of their historical work.
Yes I can since historical works are idealized recallings, they are a product of the vision of the author, its how they CHOOSE to portray events, thats like saying you cant tell an artists aesthetic preferences because his artworks imitate real life, I genuinely cant imagine how youre this retarded and butthurt at the same time, I mean, Schopenhauer was at least a proper thinker who cared about topics and not
>muh IM SMORTER THAN U BCUZ BOOK UR WRONG BRAINLET WAA
knowledge is practical, yours clearly isnt.

>>17932081
see >>17932086

you fags turn every thread into a dick measuring contest while pretending that youre the only ones who ACTUALLY care about TRVE KNOVVLEDGE

>>17932093
Absolute brainlet take. I'm done with your thread.

>>17932103
kek, literally proved my argument correct, youre just butthurt that you have no counter-argument.

>>17932036
>might made right
l.o.l.
>Greek is a vague language, Thucydides is a complex writer
Great job conflating vague with simple. If it was so simple then why did great Roman writers struggle to translate Greek philosophical terms?
>>17932045
>>History is unbiased
That's not at all what he wrote you fucking retard.
>>17932086
He's asking you to contextualize the dialogue in terms of what it means for the overall narrative presented in the book. You're too stupid to do this, otherwise you'd have posted something more nuanced than
>Thucydides thinks that might makes right, I will take quotes from wikipedia and a youtube video to prove this
You've sperged out this hard over an anonymous poster claiming you haven't read the book, proving that you are upset for having been found out. If you had read it it would've been easy for you to post excerpts from the actual text supporting your ideas about Thucydides.
>herunterladen
No wonder your English is so fucking shit.

>>17932193
>>17932193
>Great job conflating vague with simple. If it was so simple then why did great Roman writers struggle to translate Greek philosophical terms?
I can use simple and simplistic synonimously if I please to
>>17932193
>That's not at all what he wrote you fucking retard.
samefag
>>17932193
>You're too stupid to do this
opinion discarded, if all youre going to do is whine about muh brainlet and do another dick measuring contest, get the fuck out of my thread and hang yourself
>>17932193
>You've sperged out this hard over an anonymous poster claiming you haven't read the book, proving that you are upset for having been found out. If you had read it it would've been easy for you to post excerpts from the actual text supporting your ideas about Thucydides.
I dont give a shit, nor have I ever claimed to, youre the ones who got their feelings hurt because of this, deal with it homo.
>>17932193
>No wonder your English is so fucking shit.
mutt

funny how I predicted this whole steaming pile of crap >>17932101

>>17932112
kek

>>17932312
>Samefag
Omg what a fucking faggot

>>17931694
based

>>17932329
kek

>>17932329
>Omg what a fucking faggot
just kill yourelf already

>>17932393
It's highscool knowledge that you should read a book before talking about it retard.

>>17932404
lmao

>>17932312
Did you know Thrasymachus is said by a Byzantine encyclopedia to have "discovered" both the period and the colon? I wish he were mighty enough to have introduced them to you. Maybe with the elevated reading comprehension brought on by these devices you could learn some things. First you might learn simple things: like how to spell "synonymous", why "vague" and "simple" are different words, and why "vague" is not a synonym for the word "simplistic". After learning the basics of constructing a sentence you could move on to rhetoric. Currently you're quite bad at this topic, as telling people to kill themselves does nothing to convince us you aren't angry. I suggest reading Aristotle's sophistical refutations and rhetoric.
also
>samefag
>youre the ones who got their feelings
How can anyone take you seriously when you aren't even coherent?

>>17932404
see >>17931931
>>17932101
>>17932112
YWNBAW

>>17932424
>Did you know Thrasymachus is said by a Byzantine encyclopedia to have "discovered" both the period and the colon? I wish he were mighty enough to have introduced them to you. Maybe with the elevated reading comprehension brought on by these devices you could learn some things. First you might learn simple things: like how to spell "synonymous", why "vague" and "simple" are different words, and why "vague" is not a synonym for the word "simplistic". After learning the basics of constructing a sentence you could move on to rhetoric. Currently you're quite bad at this topic, as telling people to kill themselves does nothing to convince us you aren't angry. I suggest reading Aristotle's sophistical refutations and rhetoric.
>you MUST care about semantics or otherwise youre a BRAINLET which means youre WRONG
cope tranny, mccarthy used no punctuation

>>17932424
I dont care about grammar on this nazi animeboard because I am not that insecure and have better things to do.
>>17932424
>Currently you're quite bad at this topic, as telling people to kill themselves does nothing to convince us you aren't angry.
Half of all posts in this thread are not even arguments to begin with, just polemic nonsense about brainlets and wojaks, youre also nobody to talk down to anyone, youre a complete nobody, you have no authority.

>>17932424
I dont care about grammar on this nazi animeboard because I am not that insecure and have better things to do.
>>17932424
>Currently you're quite bad at this topic, as telling people to kill themselves does nothing to convince us you aren't angry.
Half of all posts in this thread are not even arguments to begin with, just polemic nonsense about brainlets and wojaks, youre also nobody to talk down to anyone, youre a complete nobody, you have no authority.

>>17932653
Just take a deep breath and move on, you're acting like a child.

>>17932661
Omfg you really erased the same post to say the same things two times in a row? What a fucking loser.

>>17932664
neck urself

>>17932669
who are you again? obsessed.

>>17932669
LOL

>>17932686
>I dont care about grammar on this nazi animeboard because I am not that insecure and have better things to do.
Don't you have better things to do?

For people who posture a great deal of intellectualism and brag about their reading capabilities, you sure have read none of my arguments.

>>17932610
>>you MUST care about semantics or otherwise youre a BRAINLET which means youre WRONG
No, but I think that understanding semantics makes it a lot easier to convince people you're right.
>>17932653
>>17932661
>"I don't care about grammar"
>deletes post so he can attach le funny meme
I literally don't think you're capable of understand the arguments presented to you. They were all challenges to your claims and you started sperging out by posting wojaks.
>>17932670
>>17932686
>>17932701
But I can see why you're so into the concept of might! (Note for retarded germans: I am calling you a homosexual)

>>17932725
>No, but I think that understanding semantics makes it a lot easier to convince people you're right.
For it having been your entire "argument" to poke fun at my grammar to portray me as some kind of idiot, this was a meak justification, you basically ignored any statement that contained any content for this copy-pasta worthy ad-hominem.
>>17932725
>I literally don't think you're capable of understand the arguments presented to you. They were all challenges to your claims and you started sperging out by posting wojaks.
I made it a point that I was commenting on Thucydides as a person >>17931931 I explicitly stated that this thread is not about whether I have or haven't read the peloponnesian war, which you promptly ignored to follow the herd and try to make me the "brainlet", you've spent so much time focussing on whether I have read thucydides, you forgot to read the thread it seems.
>>17932725
>But I can see why you're so into the concept of might! (Note for retarded germans: I am calling you a homosexual)
Good argument, brainlet.

>>17932778
>I made it a point that I was commenting on Thucydides as a person >>17931931 # I explicitly stated that this thread is not about whether I have or haven't read the peloponnesian war
How can you say anything about Thucydides if you haven't read him?

>>17932788
How can you know anything about Alexander if you haven't met him? Information passes; I just wanted to know if Thucydides was right for me, but you had to sperg out.

>>17932796
>How can you know anything about Alexander if you haven't met him?
I can't.
>I just wanted to know if Thucydides was right for me
No, you were saying he was le based might makes right scribe and not historian (already showing your lack of knowledge about him).
>but you had to sperg out
I will refer you to yourself erasing your own post twice to correct the grammar and attach a meme while still claiming that you don't care.

>>17932809
>No, you were saying he was le based might makes right scribe and not historian (already showing your lack of knowledge about him).
Yeah, in a meme format by information I gathered casually; you have yet to prove me wrong: "read bok" is not an argument, if you did read it and if think of yourself as properly educated on the topic, argue against my assumption, if I were to simply read the book, I wouldn't have to make a thread, I also deliberately said that I believed he didnt classify himself as a historian, to which you have yet to respond to, also, stop thinking in memes.
>>17932809
>I will refer you to yourself erasing your own post twice to correct the grammar and attach a meme while still claiming that you don't care.
Memes are more important, theyre visuals.

>>17932826
You know what? Keep doing your stuff. Dont read. Make assumptions. Make shit threads about your shit assumptions and stay dumb.
>"read bok" is not an argument
It's the only way you will see wether or not he believes in "might makes right". You literally have only one (1) book to read. Retards like you makes me glad you lost both world wars.

>>17932852
>You know what? Keep doing your stuff. Dont read. Make assumptions. Make shit threads about your shit assumptions and stay dumb.
Seething loser, ad hominems go into the bin, though you like to present yourself as intellectually superior to me, I could make you submit, I showed that you were unable to argue against me when I played along with your pseudo-intellectual posturing.
>>17932852
>It's the only way you will see wether or not he believes in "might makes right". You literally have only one (1) book to read. Retards like you makes me glad you lost both world wars.
I was simply looking to see what reactions I would get from my gathered view of Thucydides and if he was who I thought him to be, I think wanting to know if what I am getting into is what I think it to be isn't too much to ask on a literature board.

Loser.

>>17932905
I hope that you will grow out of being such an insufferable fag.

>>17932917
same here, loser (you)

>>17932928
Kek

>>17932928
I see that you are getting tired so I will end on same advices.
1- You can't just read an author in order to confirm your bias
2- If you want to know something about an author, it is imperative that you read him
3- If you talk about an author, you must have read him beforehand if you don't want to ridicule yourself.
Honestly anon, it's more about you than your shit take on Thucydides.

>>17932942
Thanks, boo, some commentary footnotes in case this thread stays up till tomorrow.

1. Its not so much a confirmation bias, I just wanted to see which greeks I might like on a personal level, like dante loved vergil, since I just got done with the dk presocratics
2. If this were imperative, Id have to read every book in existence, I had some vague knowledge about the greeks that got me interested, which then got me started, theres always some pre-existing knowledge that makes a book "attractive".
3.Not really, thats for if I want to talk about a book, youre referring to me bringing up specifics about his literature in the post which I got from some casual research: if I hold knowledge, I have gained the ability to express the themes I've gathered, even if the image im presenting is incomplete, otherwise we couldnt talk about pytheas through strabon.
>>17932942
>Honestly anon, youre in no position to give advice or act superior in any way just because youve read one book more than I did, we're still both nobodies.

>>17933021
>If this were imperative, Id have to read every book in existence, I had some vague knowledge about the greeks that got me interested, which then got me started, theres always some pre-existing knowledge that makes a book "attractive".
Otherwise you wouldnt even know the book existed in the first place.

>>17933021
>>17933026
How old are you?

>>17933043

>>17932778
>For it having been your entire "argument" to poke fun at my grammar to portray me as some kind of idiot
Trust me buddy, you don't need great rhetorical abilities to portray you as an idiot. At any point you could've made me look pretty stupid if you just supported your retarded OP with excerpts from Thucydides book. But you wanted us to tell you if Thucydides agreed with you, and your method was writing five lines of greentext, quoting wikipedia, and linking a video. So of course anons took the opportunity to make you look like an idiot. And what I did is closer to an argument from fallacy than an ad hominem attack:
>If P, then Q.
>P is a fallacious argument.
>Therefore, Q is false.
By saying that you must be wrong because of your poor English abilities and lack of having read Thucydides I'm not actually disproving anything you've claimed. Attacking the methods you used to come to your opinions doesn't disprove them. I've done nothing to prove that Thucydides believed that justice was not based on strength, that he was a not a skilled writer, or that his achievements were not meaningful. If you had knowledge of his work you'd be able to demonstrate it despite the things I'd argued. But you don't and have to call people faggots, post memes from reddit, and backpedal into a pathetic corner.

>>17933043
I'm Chris Hansen with dateline NBC, how old are YOU?

>>17933073
u must be fun at parties

>>17933077
Each time you post you reaffirm how much of a weak little faggot you are.
>I just want to be like Dante with Vergil but with the greeks
I will remember you of this everytime I see you post.

>>17933086
I actually got a medal for knowing how to party down, dude

>>17933088
ok weirdo

>>17931964
based
>makes shit up, relates folklore, loose about 'facts' and 'historical accuracy'
Though he said when something was probably fake or made up

>>17933073
>Trust me buddy,
oh shit, he dropped the buddy
>>17933073
>you don't need great rhetorical abilities to portray you as an idiot.
boom. roasted.
>>17933073
>At any point you could've made me look pretty stupid if you just supported your retarded OP with excerpts from Thucydides book.
yea i dont care, i stay genuwine
>>17933073
>your method was writing five lines of greentext, quoting wikipedia, and linking a video
yes, believe it or not, that counts as content, dont care if those are memes

>>17933088
i genuinely dont think a person who writes creeper shit like this can have any decent life whatsoever, hope moms ok

>>17933123
>genuwine
what the fuck is wrong with you?

>>17933158
its my culture

>>17933088
>I will remember you of this everytime I see you post.
poojeet grammar