/lit/ - Literature

>>17928544
Where do Curtis Yarvin and Nick Land make these arguments? I suspect that you are misrepresenting their ideas.

>>17928544
the example of the US is fine. People who have been American for a few generations become fully americanized. Nobody has an issue with southern and eastern europeans anymore when they used to be the scawy destabilizing force

>Most people seem to rely on the huge assumption that the negative consequences will ultimately be eliminated in a few generations as people get more accustomed to it
It's not that. The problem is that multiculturalism = no culture. Multiculturalism = death of cultures. It's a murder, a genocide of cultures. Try to mix vanilla and chocolate in the same gelato: there will be no more chocolate and no more vanilla.

>>17928559
They're a lot more similar to wasps than certain other groups

>>17928573
>>17928599
Not him, but every single immigrant I have ever met has been completely assimilated to American society and political culture. The problem isn't multiculturalism. The problem is that there is no such thing as multiculturalism, at least not in any industrialized democracy.

>>17928624
Americans can't even integrate their freed slave caste. Latinos exist in a spectrum from fully integrated to 'doesn't speak English and has basically recreated Mexico on this side of the border'.

>>17928559
> Wow white people blend in to a majority white country that means infinity Nigerians will have no problem!

T. Retard

>>17928624
Yes, because capitalism neutralizes differences. Its endpoint is the total flattenization of everything.

>>17928559
There are plenty of examples of ethnic groups that haven't "Americanized" over a few generations. Most European cultures are very similar and in general they're the low hanging fruit in these conversations. How many generations is it going to take for those of African, Middle Eastern or South American descent to "Amercanize"? Even after generations these groups tend segregate themselves into little pockets of major cities.

>>17928633
Nigerian immigrants ironically showcase the real(and unmentionable) problem. They are the high IQ elite of Nigeria and have a culture of personal responsibility that meshes well with the American Dream mythos.

>>17928624
>but every single immigrant I have ever met has been completely assimilated to American society and political culture

This is largely because American society and culture has been dragged down to them.

>>17928632
I grew up around those people. The immigrants are as foreign as you say, but the children are completely assimilated, albeit to the culture of the American ghetto. See if you can find an American-born Hispanic who believes that no-fault divorce should be criminalized and that fornication is a mortal sin.
>>17928634
What are you talking about? Are you going to tell me that assimilation didn't exist in pre-capitalist societies? Did assimilation not exist in the Soviet Union?

>>17928654
You have no idea what you're talking about. Go tell a Pole that his culture is "very similar" to those of the Russians, the English, and the Serbs, and see what he says. Then go and talk to the average second-generation American immigrant and ask them how they feel about liberal democracy, the Constitution, fornication, and so on, and see what they say. They are completely American.
>>17928666
>This is largely because American society and culture has been dragged down to them.
Really? So American families have been getting stronger and more cohesive? American women have been leaving school and getting married at younger and younger ages? Fornication and adultery have disappeared from our popular media and are universally disapproved of?

>>17928544
Quote them and cite your quotes.

>>17928686
>Go tell a Pole that his culture is "very similar" to those of the Russians, the English, and the Serbs, and see what he says.
if you're comparing it to eg. a Pakistani Muslim, or a Japanese, or a Congolese, then I think the Pole would agree

>>17928544
start with the Greeks

>>17928686
>Go tell a Pole that his culture is "very similar" to those of the Russians, the English

They would probably be offended but the reality is that their culture is extremely similar and their base values only differ in relatively trivial areas. The cultural differences between a Pole and a subsaharan African or a Pole and a south east Asian are much, much more stark and possibly irreconcilable.

>>17928573
>multiculturalism = no culture. Multiculturalism = death of cultures.
untill there is a new population majority anon, it's not a permanent state it's a transition (kek)

>>17928721
>if you're comparing it to eg. a Pakistani Muslim, or a Japanese, or a Congolese, then I think the Pole would agree
He would, but that is of no significance. What matters is that their cultures are not only different, but harbor deep antagonisms toward each other. I've had the opportunity to meet people from all of these places, and I can tell you that the Pakistanis, Japanese, and Congolese who come here overwhelmingly assimilate to American liberalism. This is only a problem if you're a reactionary, but even then, the solution wouldn't be ethnic cleansing, but ending the hegemony of liberalism.

>>17928674
>but the children are completely assimilated
cool but to whomst are they going to be loyal to?
to their family and ancesters or your mutt ghetto society?

>>17928544
all arguments are made by minorities who are scared of being wiped out by the congregating whites
i.e. nothing wrong at all with the argument
OP please create a white ethnostate I'll be your best fren :3

>>17928734
My dude, you sound like you have no knowledge of the world. The people who come here are largely members of the liberal international elite. They talk the same way, they think the same way, they believe the same things, they read the same publications, they watch the same forms of media (for the most part), they engage in the same forms of social activity, they live the same way, and they are all as offensive to the average American as the local liberal elite is. Your fixation on race is a symptom of your ensnarement in the liberal narrative. You have fallen into a trap. Race is not important, and a wholly white America would be just as liberal as Slovakia or Canada.
Think less about what people look like, and think more about institutions and the ideologies that they serve to propagate. If Catholicism can be served equally as well by Poles, Italians, Mexicans, and Koreans, then liberalism...

Something something tranny psyop psued bullshit something something scizo faggot gamer word something something (pbuh) gnon deterritorialized something sentient capital this AI god that something something

>>17928674
>What are you talking about? Are you going to tell me that assimilation didn't exist in pre-capitalist societies? Did assimilation not exist in the Soviet Union?
I was talking about capitalism more as "modernity". Soviet communism and Western capitalism are two symptoms of the same disease.

>>17928686
>So American families have been getting stronger and more cohesive?

American families used to be extremely strong and cohesive. There are multiple factors that have caused their decline but it's primarily due to external forces and the introduction of irreconcilable cultural differences.

>>17928751
>cool but to whomst are they going to be loyal to? to their family and ancesters or your mutt ghetto society?
To our "mutt ghetto society." Have you ever had a conversation with an American Muslim about whether or not hijab is a religious requirement? Protip: They will tell you the same thing that you can expect to hear from a NYT reporter.

>>17928780
I've lived in both Poland and England for multiple years. Outside of trivial local traditions they aren't that different. Barring language differences the average Pole could be transported to most places in the UK and be basically integrated within a few weeks. This isn't even remotely the case with Africans or cultures that are further removed.

>>17928790
>There are multiple factors that have caused their decline but it's primarily due to external forces and the introduction of irreconcilable cultural differences.
You are very stupid if you actually believe this. Was Reagan and his support for no-fault divorce an external force? The American family is in ruins because Americans have by their own hand destroyed it. I have literally lived around and near Republican voters, and they are just as liberal in their sexual attitudes as anyone else in America. I literally went to a Republican event run entirely by white Americans and attended almost entirely by white Americans where they welcomed a trans woman with open arms and indicated their support for trans public officials. Get your head out of your ass and take a good, hard look at the world around you.
>>17928785
Capitalism and modernity are not the same thing. What, exactly, is contradictory about having an absolute monarchy that stands over an array of corporations and proletarian subjects?

>>17928794
You are delusional.

>>17928825
A huge chunk of my friends are Muslim, and I used to spend a lot of time interacting with Muslims. I even studied Arabic for a while. They are totally American.
>>17928818
You're talking shit, my dude. Those "trivial local traditions" are all-important to them. If you have ever met a Pole who would fit well in a British urban environment, then you have met a member of the transnational liberal elite that is equally present in South Asia, Africa, and East Asia.

>>17928823
>Was Reagan and his support for no-fault divorce an external force?

Reagan himself wasn't an external force but that idea came from extremely destructive external forces.

>>17928832
Really? Liberalism is an external force? Are you next going to tell me that the Enlightenment was a Jewish plot? Was Protestantism the result of a Semitic conspiracy between Muslims and Jews?

>>17928823
Feminism in the US began long before that. There were certain radical Christian groups prominently involved, and of course our frugal friends. The actual decisions anyway were mostly imposed on the people by various government elements and influential ngos. Why those elements chose the policy they did is another question.

>>17928841
>Was Protestantism the result of a Semitic conspiracy
Yes

>>17928844
They chose those policies because they were liberals and liberal governments enforce liberal policies.

>>17928858
That's not a real answer, you are just kicking the can to 'why did liberalism arise', which is rather complex issue.

>>17928866
>you are just kicking the can to 'why did liberalism arise', which is rather complex issue.
Okay. "The Jews" is not a serious answer. I will give you four names that should help you on your journey: Timothy Fitzgerald, Quentin Skinner, Charles Taylor, Alasdair MacIntyre. Good luck.

>>17928544
you don't need to deny their claims, call them racists (being racist means you're automatically wrong)

>>17928794
>Have you ever had a conversation with an American Muslim about whether or not hijab is a religious requirement?
That's the behaviour they portray with outsiders.
I'm a migrant to but in europe (not mudzlime) but yeah with the locals i pretend to be just like them and then with my real community i shit talk about the locals

>>17928885
I didnt say "the Jews'', though they are undoubtedly a factor, being prominently involved in many of these movements alongside radical Protestant sects, some Catholics, and others. I also did not ask you for recs, and naming 4 people and not saying anything is more or less useless in terms of contributing to the conversation.

>>17928900
That's what the people that got Yarvin removed from Strangeloop did but I'd like to go a bit deeper than that.

>>17928904
>I'm a migrant to but in europe (not mudzlime) but yeah with the locals i pretend to be just like them and then with my real community i shit talk about the locals
Do you actually expect me to believe this? Like I said, I studied some Arabic and spent a lot of time around these people. I have even said some of these things. The only people who agreed with me are the people who in the next breath told me to not say these things out loud. Everyone else got upset. I can't tell you how many times I have met Muslims during Ramadan who do not fast. Look into Muslim academics at prestigious American institutions, particularly those who have spent time at Princeton, and you will see how incredibly liberal these people are.

>>17928559
>>17928624
>>17928674
This is only partially true. Many second, third generation immigrants are americanized in the sense that they share our phonology and cultural references (all of which are capitalist-produced aka artificially disseminated from the top down), but past that, there remains large rifts between groups, especially amongst the native white population and non-whites. Almost all immigrants form clusters where they preserve their culture against integration with certain success. In future generations that have the superficial appearance of integration, we see how they continue to engage with other groups in bad faith and constantly advocate for more and more resources for their kind. This is not something we’ve seen persist in the past with south and eastern europeans - it is new and pervasive. The supposed cultural glue people claim to be keeping the “melting pot” together is really more of a masking to cover deep and widening political strife between demographics over government and capital resources. Think of how many groups have hitched their wagons to the BLM train to work out benefits for their own groups. Even asians, who assimilate best into the bourgeoisie liberal white class, tend to form their own clusters and keep to themselves.

The process of integration could work, possibly, at a manageable rate of immigration, especially considering that integrating the black population alone has proven to be a challenge for over a century now (and has only worsened). If the united states doesn’t do something about its intake, then it will never stabilize and inevitably segment.

>>17928818
>>17928780
I don't know why this has to be an argument when these two positions are not mutually exclusive. It is possible that there are average differences between populations taken as a whole as well as an internationalised liberal caste within each of them.

>>17928907
>I didnt say "the Jews'', though they are undoubtedly a factor, being prominently involved in many of these movements alongside radical Protestant sects, some Catholics, and others.
Your thinking is primitive. It's not about groups, it's about ideas. The ideas in question transcend race and "religion" and in fact are arrayed against it.
>I also did not ask you for recs, and naming 4 people and not saying anything is more or less useless in terms of contributing to the conversation.
You are literally operating on the level of an idiotic political provocateur. From what you have said here, it is very clear that you and your friends are going nowhere. I strongly suggest that you look up the names that I posted and read their books. You will come out the other end in a much stronger position than you are right now.

>>17928624
>American
>Culture

>>17928942
>Your thinking is primitive. It's not about groups, it's about ideas.
This dichotomy is itself primitive, as if there have never been powerful and influential groups in history, as if ideas float freely in some idea-sphere rather than existing in the minds of people, who are arranged in social networks of power and have incentives to believe and promote certain ideas. It is on its face a ridiculous suggestion.

I have read two of MacIntyre's books and I think he is right about the breakdown of coherent moral frameworks but this is not an explanation of historical causes. My point in any case was that namedropping without saying anything else is worthless and I didn't even ask your opinion.

>>17928938
>Almost all immigrants form clusters where they preserve their culture against integration with certain success.
I haven't met or heard of any of these people.
>In future generations that have the superficial appearance of integration, we see how they continue to engage with other groups in bad faith and constantly advocate for more and more resources for their kind.
I don't know what you're talking about. Do you mean to say that they become liberals and support liberalism both inside and outside the Democratic Party?
>This is not something we’ve seen persist in the past with south and eastern europeans - it is new and pervasive.
Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about. All I see is immigrants moving to America, becoming liberal, and adopting the forms of thought and politics advocated by liberalism. If the country were a Catholic monarchy, they would be converting to Catholicism.
>The supposed cultural glue people claim to be keeping the “melting pot” together is really more of a masking to cover deep and widening political strife between demographics over government and capital resources. Think of how many groups have hitched their wagons to the BLM train to work out benefits for their own groups.
What? Again, all I see are immigrants moving to America and becoming liberals. I don't see any strife over government resources, but I do see strife over ideological hegemony, strife that cuts across racial and religious lines.
>Even asians, who assimilate best into the bourgeoisie liberal white class, tend to form their own clusters and keep to themselves.
Is that why so many of them marry whites, go to prestigious American universities, and join the American economic elite? Have you actually spent time around Asians, lived near a Chinatown, or been friends in real life with a significant number of Asian-Americans? You sound like you are getting all this from racist blogs. Stop looking at the blogs and start looking at America, and you will see what I mean.
>The process of integration could work, possibly, at a manageable rate of immigration, especially considering that integrating the black population alone has proven to be a challenge for over a century now (and has only worsened). If the united states doesn’t do something about its intake, then it will never stabilize and inevitably segment.
All of these people are completely integrated. They have integrated into liberalism, not the dying remnants of our early postwar culture that you seem to think define this country.

>>17928904
What are you? Some Polish toilet cleaner?

>>17928928
>I studied some Arabic and spent a lot of time around these people
they will never act around you like they would without you anon, you are deluding yourself into thinking that you can fit in
even if you married one of their women they would still not view you as one of their own

>>17928992
romanian criminal

>>17928999
Checked. Based gyp

>>17928986
>All of these people are completely integrated. They have integrated into liberalism, not the dying remnants of our early postwar culture that you seem to think define this country.

The current state of the United States is an unsustainable, ungodly abomination that nobody would wish upon their worst enemy. You ultimately seem to be agreeing that these people have made the country substantially worse.

>>17928928
>I have met Muslims during Ramadan who do not fast
Also this thing about them not being super obsessed with their own cultural/religious norms doesn't mean that when shit gets real they will not side with their own. This is such a weird way of looking at things.
I know chinese second gen migrants who don't even speak chinese who would back stab you in a second if it would mean helping one of their own community.

>>17928943
These average differences don't matter, because ideology and values are not tied to physical appearance. They are the result of one's environment. Put an English-speaking conservative Muslim in any city on the coasts of America, and you will see them become a liberal fornicator in record time. I've seen it. Others have seen it. The conservatives in these communities, e.g. Daniel Haqiqatjou, are literally on the defensive and spend half their time seething about the fact that most people are becoming more and more liberal with each passing day. Seriously, you should try looking at the phenomena themselves instead of reading racist blogs.
>>17928976
>This dichotomy is itself primitive, as if there have never been powerful and influential groups in history, as if ideas float freely in some idea-sphere rather than existing in the minds of people, who are arranged in social networks of power and have incentives to believe and promote certain ideas. It is on its face a ridiculous suggestion.
These groups are not defined by race. Race has nothing to do with it. Even "religion" has nothing to do with it.
>I have read two of MacIntyre's books and I think he is right about the breakdown of coherent moral frameworks but this is not an explanation of historical causes. My point in any case was that namedropping without saying anything else is worthless and I didn't even ask your opinion.
Naming those men is only worthless if you don't take the opportunity to read something better than a racist blog and change your mind. You have fallen into a trap, and you need to get out of it.
>>17928999
>they will never act around you like they would without you anon, you are deluding yourself into thinking that you can fit in
even if you married one of their women they would still not view you as one of their own
I never talked about conversion, you twat. They are literally liberals who vote for the Democratic Party and are completely tolerant of everything that is prohibited by Islam. I've literally been treated worse by some of these people for making assertions that any normal Muslim would regard as obvious and true. You aren't even Muslim, so why are you pretending to know anything about what they think?

>>17929018
>The current state of the United States is an unsustainable, ungodly abomination that nobody would wish upon their worst enemy. You ultimately seem to be agreeing that these people have made the country substantially worse.
No. They haven't done anything to the country, because they don't have any power. Take a look at the staff of the editorial board of the New York Times over the past sixty years and tell me what you find.
>>17929026
>Also this thing about them not being super obsessed with their own cultural/religious norms
If you don't fast for Ramadan, you are barely Muslim. This isn't "obsession," this is the most fundamental, basic level of practice. My point is that they overwhelmingly assimilate and turn into liberals.
>This is such a weird way of looking at things.
No.
>I know chinese second gen migrants who don't even speak chinese who would back stab you in a second if it would mean helping one of their own community.
I've never met any of these people, and most of my friends are Chinese. I think you are projecting your own racism onto them.

>>17929039
>. Race has nothing to do with it. Even "religion" has nothing to do with it.
You can convince yourself they don't matter if you want but it's just delusional, of course they matter. We are not talking about entire races here anyway, a Protestant Feminist group or a Jewish antiracist group do not represent entire races or religions. I didn't even say it was race, I said group dynamics are involved. Because social networks are influenced by race these groups have racial elements but they are not primarily racial.

You might also consider something in between the boomer lib take of 'race doesn't matter whatsoever' and whatever caricature of antisemitism you think I have received from 'racist blogs'.

>>17928544
>All of the studies I can find seem to support this position
post them

>>17929052
>No. They haven't done anything to the country, because they don't have any power.
Sure they have no power but they’re still used as foot soldiers by those who do. Unless you seriously think millions of foreigners coming in every year has had no impact on the culture.

>>17929039
>I never talked about conversion, you twat.
Nor am i.
>They are literally liberals who vote for the Democratic Party
Because in the current context and in this foreign country they vote for what seem to benefit their own parasitic group life style.
Hell if i had citizinship of the country i live in i would probably vote left because they are less likely to kick me and my people out even though most of us are conservative and view faggots and trannies as subhuman trash.

>>17929039
>Put an English-speaking conservative Muslim in any city on the coasts of America, and you will see them become a liberal fornicator in record time.

Wrong. Statistics unquestionably support the fact that the vast majority of them will segregate themselves into enclaves where a more traditional strict Muslim culture dominates. In many places, they have even attempted to change the laws to allow legal enforcement of stricter social norms. They may smile and laugh while you debase yourself but most of them are not partaking in that debasement and they would happily rid the world of you if they had the option.

>>17929052
>If you don't fast for Ramadan
Are you autistic or something?
Islam is more or less an ethno-religious community.
Anyway why are you even bringing it up, the point was the general behaviour and psychology of migrant groups who interact with foreign populations and have to use dissimulative behavioural strategies to integrate and exploit the local society.

>>17929093
What they appear to do is rape white girls but make sure their own women are kept under wraps. This is fairly logical behavior really

>>17928986
>I haven't met or heard of any of these people
Ok
> I don't know what you're talking about. Do you mean to say that they become liberals and support liberalism both inside and outside the Democratic Party?
i’m saying many of them push the divide across demographics themselves through anti-colonialist philosophy applied onto the US. Yes, these immigrants align with liberalism or beyond that into “racial-justice” oriented socialism
>Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about. All I see is immigrants moving to America, becoming liberal, and adopting the forms of thought and politics advocated by liberalism.
You aren’t making a distinction between politics and culture, let alone organic vs capitalist/artificial culture. Me and a 3rd generation immigrant both watching netflix doesn’t really mean anything beyond that we both participate in the same system.
> Is that why so many of them marry whites, go to prestigious American universities, and join the American economic elite? Have you actually spent time around Asians, lived near a Chinatown, or been friends in real life with a significant number of Asian-Americans? You sound like you are getting all this from racist blogs. Stop looking at the blogs and start looking at America, and you will see what I mean.
I have had asian friends and still do. About half of them only socialize with asians now. Foreigners will marry whites for the visa, but this is deviating from the point and cherry picking.
All of these people are completely integrated. They have integrated into liberalism, not the dying remnants of our early postwar culture that you seem to think define this country.
No lol
>tl;dr: bro i don’t see any of that man like what do you mean there’s no real cultural bond across demographics and that there is ongoing racial strife guised in academic lingo and verbosity.
I don’t know what else to say, its pretty obvious once you take a more critical glance beyond what’s fed to you through your apps and social media.

>>17929073
>Because in the current context and in this foreign country they vote for what seem to benefit their own parasitic group life style.
There is nothing "parasitic" about American Muslims, at least not the ones I've met. Almost every single one I interact with has an advanced degree and/or works at a university.
>>17929072
>Sure they have no power but they’re still used as foot soldiers by those who do. Unless you seriously think millions of foreigners coming in every year has had no impact on the culture.
Again, refer to my initial post. If they actually had an impact on the culture, we'd be seeing less fornication, less adultery, less atheism, more cohesive families, and more of literally everything that conservatives want. Instead, their children literally join gangs, listen to rap, smoke weed, and speak ebonics. This isn't foreign influence on America. This is assimilation.
>>17929069
>You can convince yourself they don't matter if you want but it's just delusional, of course they matter. We are not talking about entire races here anyway, a Protestant Feminist group or a Jewish antiracist group do not represent entire races or religions. I didn't even say it was race, I said group dynamics are involved. Because social networks are influenced by race these groups have racial elements but they are not primarily racial.
But there is no proof of any of this.
>You might also consider something in between the boomer lib take of 'race doesn't matter whatsoever' and whatever caricature of antisemitism you think I have received from 'racist blogs'.
The idea that race matters is itself liberal.

>>17929093
No. This is simply not the case in America.
>>17929097
>Islam is more or less an ethno-religious community.
No.
>Anyway why are you even bringing it up, the point was the general behaviour and psychology of migrant groups who interact with foreign populations and have to use dissimulative behavioural strategies to integrate and exploit the local society.
That's not what they do.

>>17929111
>But there is no proof of any of this.
I challenge you to explain the ADL's positions on immigration in the US and Israel without mentioning the ethnic makeup of most important ADL members.

>>17929109
>>17929111
You really are Reddit incarnate. I'm not even reading your replies anymore because the formatting is just aesthetically disgusting.

>>17929115
>No. This is simply not the case in America.

Yes it is. Every major American city is full of these enclaves and that it extremely well documented.

>>17928558
Fpbp.
Gay accfag shill thread. nick is pro tranny and immigration

>>17929109
>i’m saying many of them push the divide across demographics themselves through anti-colonialist philosophy applied onto the US. Yes, these immigrants align with liberalism or beyond that into “racial-justice” oriented socialism
That has nothing to do with demographics and everything to do with American liberalism. Are Slovakia, Italy, Spain, Austria, Switzerland, or Germany, all countries that still have overwhelming European majorities, more or less liberal than the United States?
>You aren’t making a distinction between politics and culture, let alone organic vs capitalist/artificial culture. Me and a 3rd generation immigrant both watching netflix doesn’t really mean anything beyond that we both participate in the same system.
Read Gramsci. These people absorb the hegemonic discourse in the United States and become liberals. That is my point.
>About half of them only socialize with asians now.
Where in God's name do you live? I've never in my life met an Asian of this sort, and I've spent time in Asian-majority areas of the country.
>Foreigners will marry whites for the visa, but this is deviating from the point and cherry picking.
I wasn't talking about foreigners. American-born Asians show more of a trend toward outgroup marriage than any other racial group.
Are you sure you aren't just making shit up?
>I don’t know what else to say, its pretty obvious once you take a more critical glance beyond what’s fed to you through your apps and social media.
I don't use apps or social media. I have spent good chunks of my life surrounded by these people. Almost the entirety of my social circle is made up of these people. Race is totally irrelevant.

>>17929111
>There is nothing "parasitic" about American Muslims
You don't understand what i mean
The fact that foreigners come to a different society, by this mere fact they are fucking over the locals. Even if their behaviour is perfect with a zero criminal rate, they end up take up resources and occupational opportunities and eventually space/land itself.

>>17929132
Nick is pro trans and pro immigration because he believes it will hasten the destruction of America and lead to the formation of his odd mix of monarchy and technocracy.

>>17929118
They are old American liberals who have had pro-Israel propaganda pumped into their minds from the day they were born. End of story. Talk to younger American Jews and you will see that lots of them are trending toward anti-Zionism. Israel has literally the same sort of suicidal liberal elite. Look up Benny Morris's comments on the fate of Israel and how people reacted to him, and you will see what I mean.
>>17929124
I am the opposite of Reddit.
>>17929127
>>17929127
No, it's not. I have lived in, lived near, and spent time in these "enclaves," they are nothing of the sort.

>>17929144
>The fact that foreigners come to a different society, by this mere fact they are fucking over the locals. Even if their behaviour is perfect with a zero criminal rate, they end up take up resources and occupational opportunities and eventually space/land itself.
What are you talking about? Are you alright in the head?

>>17929039
>Seriously, you should try looking at the phenomena themselves instead of reading racist blogs
You are the one behaving like a dogmatist here with your assumptions that I am 'reading racist blogs'. I have had plenty opportunity to personally observe the Muslim population of my own European country in both the educated caste and the underclass, and I assure you that what you describe is by no means a universal phenomenon. In fact, in my country the younger, poorer Muslims are often more radical than their parents. Your understanding is as reductive as a purely racial understanding.

>>17929162
Why are you trying to tell me, an American born and bred, about my own goddamn country if you're a European?

>>17929152
Ive talked to many younger Jews and they are all much more nuanced and pro-Israel than their gentile peers who have otherwise the same progressive politics. There are some Jews who attack Israel of course but this trend is unmistakable.

If you want the exact opposite example look at how the Wasp-controlled Ivy league schools, a very important node in American power structures, limited Jewish admission for decades, until they lost control over the institutions.

>>17929127
dude, i live in an arab neighborhood. it's just like any other working class area, sorry to break it to you. it's practically indistinguishable from a spanish neighborhood except there aren't any muslim bars obviously, and instead of a faded pic of mary behind the counter the places have one of those plaques with islamic calligraphy instead

>>17929162
His understanding is also entirely based off dishonest anecdotes that are in direct opposition to basically every poll and study on this issue. Trying to claim that American cities aren't full of ethnic and cultural enclaves is utterly ludicrous.

>>17929159
>What are you talking about? Are you alright in the head?

What's the deal with so many people trying to claim "whatever I like is the position of the real Americans"? The position of most Americans ranges from "I don't really give a shit about politics; they're all equally corrupt," to "orange man bad." Immigrants are very good at adopting these majority opinions.

The problem here isn't that immigrants are actively ruining the country, it's that their desire to integrate makes them highly vulnerable to the manufacturing of public opinion. In this sense, the forces actually working to destabilize the country aren't immigrants, but rather those who are able to influence public opinion, who are more often than not from established aristocratic families. Ironically, these are also the same people who worth the hardest to manufacture resentment against immigrants, which serves to protect their own positions by disguising deeper problems behind more obvious causes.

>Tl;dr: I don't want to say da juice, but it's da juice

>>17929186
Even if that were true, which it is not, it would not be a good argument against the claims made in the OP.

>>17929180
>Ive talked to many younger Jews and they are all much more nuanced and pro-Israel than their gentile peers who have otherwise the same progressive politics. There are some Jews who attack Israel of course but this trend is unmistakable.
Are they more pro-Israel? Yes, they are. Why? Is it because of their race? No, it's because from the time they are small children they are sent to summer camps where their brains are stuffed with pro-Israel propaganda. If you have forgotten, most Jews elected to remain in Europe when the Zionist movement was at its height, and most European Jews elected to move to America even after the Holocaust. The majority of Israeli Jews are non-white for this exact reason. If I remember correctly, numerous American Jewish leaders campaigned against Zionism in the 1940s and told their communities to stay home.
>If you want the exact opposite example look at how the Wasp-controlled Ivy league schools, a very important node in American power structures, limited Jewish admission for decades, until they lost control over the institutions.
When did they lose control over the institutions and to whom did they lose control? From what I can see, a younger generation of white liberal Americans made the change. Are you going to tell me that LBJ, FDR, JFK, and every other scion of American liberal power is a Jew? Are you going to tell me that LBJ was a servant of the Jews? Quit being silly.

>>17929178
I never mentioned the condition of your country. All I stated was that the claims that there are average differences between populations (differences, mind you, that would never be purely 'racial') and that members of a population can become successfully integrated into a liberal culture are not mutually exclusive. You demonstrate bad faith by assuming that anyone who can't accept the one-dimensional view that the hegemony of liberal political culture is the only factor in social change must be arguing racial determinism.

The problem with all this is that multiculturalism works just fine. You just let each enthnic tribe govern itself as much as possible and drop napalm on anyone who rises against you and against the order-for example see any colonial government ever.

If you still want to have a democracy for some inane reason then I guess it's more complicated and ugly. The problem is that the ruling party always gives a great deal to those who have nothing else going on for them, no matter their race.

>>17929195
Land and Yarvin would probably agree with a lot of what you said. Even if the groups integrated perfectly into what is considered American society, it's still possible that the mere existence of said group leads to negative outcomes. You could argue that blacks have, for the most part, integrated into American society but the benefit of their existence here will likely never overcome the amount of damage that was done in the BLM chimpouts. Whether that's the fault of blacks or some other group using blacks for political purposes isn't terribly important.

>>17929218
>Is it because of their race? No, it's because from the time they are small children they are sent to summer camps where their brains are stuffed with pro-Israel propaganda
Practically speaking this is the same effect as 'race matters'. I think there is probably a genetic element to ethnocentrism but let's just leave that aside, the cultural conditioning alone has the same effect.
>When did they lose control over the institutions and to whom did they lose control? From what I can see, a younger generation of white liberal Americans made the change. Are you going to tell me that LBJ, FDR, JFK, and every other scion of American liberal power is a Jew? Are you going to tell me that LBJ was a servant of the Jews? Quit being silly.
It stopped being clearly WASP-controlled in the 60s. Why this happened is not necessarily clear, and yes part of it really was Jewish influence, I don't know why you find that idea so hard to believe, but it was not some kind of cartoonish conspiracy that extended to secretly controlling LBJ and every other relevant figure. You'll note that there are no quotas for Jews in the Ivy league schools, so they are not affected by affirmative action, which does severely affect gentile whites. And it's not like this is an oversight, they had to explicitly remove the Jewish quotas.

>>17929240
Listen mate, do you think that you're fooling anyone here with this? It is obvious that you are arguing for racial determinism, soft or otherwise, and that you think that "the Jews" as a group can be held at least partly responsible for the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment. I reject these ideas in toto and will not accept your attempts to make me accept racism and anti-Semitism using the same disingenuous methods as the average liberal. This is a dead end. It leads nowhere. Even if you and your friends were to win and get your way, you would only end up back at the same place, because your ideas are as thoroughly modern as theirs and can only develop in exactly the same direction.

>>17929277
Have you actually read Yarvin? It sounds like you haven't.
>>17929287
Do you think that rehashing anti-Semitism in the same cautious language that academics use will prevent people from detecting it?

>>17929306
I don't even vaguely care about whether people find what I say 'antisemitic', the entire notion is ridiculous. I don't go around seething about anything I detect as 'anti-anglo', I am well aware that ethnic groups, and their subdivisions, have collective interests and influence on the societies in which they live.

>>17929277
The damage done by BLM is insignificant compared to the damage done by the 'rona lockdowns. Once again, it's an example of manufactured resentment disguising the way that destabilizing forces in society shake things up for personal benefit.

>>17929325
Why do you believe that? What collective interests do Jewish businessmen, Jewish beggars, Jewish academics, Jewish car salesmen, Jewish employees of the Mises Institute, and Yiddish-speaking Holocaust deniers like Ron Unz have in common? Please, explain. I am very confused.

>>17929306
>Have you actually read Yarvin? It sounds like you haven't.
Let's hear what you think Yarvin would disagree with. I could use a laugh.

>>17929277
>but the benefit of their existence here will likely never overcome the amount of damage that was done in the BLM chimpouts.
Black labour literally built the entire fucking country. are you that retarded that a few recent riots you don’t like somehow outweighs all that blacks have done for this country (willingly and not)? You’re such a retard with the historical context of a fruit fly. A couple riots is not that big of a deal, I’d even go far enough to say that their riots are absolutely justified in response to a system which has spit in their face for centuries.

>>17928654
Niggers americanized too far and it's only a matter of time before white Americans join them

>>17929332
>it's an example of manufactured resentment

It doesn't matter if it's manufactured by another group or not. This type of "manufactured resentment" wouldn't be possible if the minority group in question was not present. The inherent struggle between the majority and the minority groups is exactly what allows the resentment to fester and escalate to this level.

>>17929299
>disingenuous
This is pure projection. I did not mention Jews and the concept of holding any ethnoreligious group 'responsible' for the Enlightenment or the Protestant Reformation is preposterous on its face. I also did not mention 'races', only populations, and specifically Muslims, who are not a race. Once more you continue to reveal your own dogmatism and bad faith with nonsensical strawmen.

>>17929358
https://graymirror.substack.com/p/censorship-a-21st-century-approach

Every movement has a seed of truth. The seed of truth behind white nationalism is the same seed behind Trumpism: that non-elite white Americans are not well-governed. (Yes, Virginia, most Trumpists are horrified by white nationalism.)

This is true—although, actually, nor are elite white Americans. Or yellow Americans. Or brown Americans. Or any Americans, up to and including the American pangolin. We could even go so far as to say that America is not well-governed—though, since our big country has so many different places and such different people, it does manage to be ill-governed in many different ways at once.

The only error in Trumpism lay in thinking that Donald J. Trump could make America well-governed again. Had the Trumpists been right about that, history would have forgiven them everything—everything and much more. History is a stern tutor—and especially unforgiving of those who confuse being right, with wanting to be right. Unfortunately, in this case, the distance between the two was especially galactic.

Not the only error, but the most essential error, in white nationalism is the belief that communal conflict is an invariant of heterogeneous societies. This is not true. It is only true given bad government. Given bad government, many things will go badly.

In general, if we observe that any group of people is being badly governed, the usual cause is a government that is bad in general, and the way to fix the problem is to fix or replace this bad government in general.

In specific, we have no reason to think that the fundamental problem which creates this specific symptom, the misgovernment of poor white people, has anything at all to do with poor white people in specific. The symptom is very real, but its cause is very far upstream; and so is any appropriate fix.

There is still less reason to think that this hypothetical solution must have some zero-sum character—in which whites are governed better, by governing nonwhites worse—or more harshly—or… something?

Alas, this logic is just as irrational as leftists think it is. And its antecedents are easily recognized as mutated versions of 19th-century leftism—until very late in that century, nationalism was always a leftist idea. Abraham Lincoln’s Republicans were both the most leftist ruling party in the world, and the most nationalist.

[...]

If you are a sincere dissident, your goal is simply good government. While not all human beings should be governed in the same way, they all need good government. If your only vision is a vision of good government for some, your vision is too small to govern at all; you are sure to fail; it is both fruitless and dangerous to be around you; you are in the dead end of war. This, not any jargon, is why you deserve to be censored. (But not doxed, punched or “cancelled,” of course.)

>>17929351
They all have at a minimum an interest in Jewish people not being persecuted and Jewish people prospering. The actual groups involved are much smaller and more nuanced, and the racial element is only one of many factors.

>>17929361
>Black labour literally built the entire fucking country.

This is objectively false and I'm not going to read the rest of your dribble.

>>17929332
>damage done by the 'rona lockdowns
Yknow if this country just did a total lockdown for a few months it wouldnt have hurt our economy much at all and not many people would have died. The issue is not the lockdown itself, but the retarded half measures which made lockdowns ineffective, overly long, and economically damning. It’s a good metaphor for the total dysfunction of the American state and its inability to commit to anything though.

>>17929391
This is puerile.

>>17929393
It's true if you consider the Irish to be black. Which was in vouge at the time the building was still going on.

Ignore the Urbanomic bot what Land actually believes is that the male body needs to be deterritorialized from its nazi posture

>Does anyone really think that Nazism is like letting go? Theweleit's studies of Nazi body posture should be sufficient to disabuse one of such an absurdity. Nazism can turn you into a stiff before the messy passage into death.
>In the late 1970s, at a time when what is today called gender history was mostly conceived of as women's history, driven by the effort to make women—female agency, impact, and suffering—visible in a male-dominated world, the German literary scholar Klaus Theweleit drew attention to the emotional world and gendered “phantasies” of men. It was a special group of men that Theweleit examined, however: the German Freikorps soldiers who, in the aftermath of World War I, and in a spirit of authoritarianism, militarism, nationalism, and misogynistic resentment, fought a civil war against democrats, socialists, communists, Jews, and women. In Theweleit's view, Freikorps men radicalized common Western and German norms about male self-control and “hard” masculinity into a perpetual war against women and femininity. It was not least the femininity that existed within men, as a desire for domesticity, tenderness, and compassion, that the men of the Freikorps wanted to “defeat.” Driven by the loss of a firm identity and ubiquitous fears of sexuality and states of liquidity, these men and their “male fantasies” spearheaded the rise and heralded the devastating impact of the Third Reich, according to Theweleit. Although his work was empirically based on a limited number of autobiographical writings by the individuals he examined, Theweleit, inspired by post-Freudian psychoanalysis, understood his findings in a quasi-universal sense: masculinity, male solidarity, and, above all, the steeled, armored male body appeared as the engines of a patriarchal order, with “perpetrator-men” and “victim-women” juxtaposed dichotomously.

>>17929402
Well that's not really a meaningful reply

>>17929390
The alleged superiority of certain races is completely irrelevant to the thread. Yarvin and Land both hold some policy positions that are similar to those espoused by white nationalists but their justification is entirely different. The fact that liberals have trouble grasping this distinction is what got Yarvin removed from Strangeloop. You're focusing far too much on race and not enough on the conflict between the majority and the minority groups.

>>17929440
Are you illiterate? Reread that, and then read this:
https://graymirror.substack.com/p/5-the-land-its-people-and-their-dogs

>>17929458
Nothing in that contradicts anything I've said.

>>17929396
There was never a need for any lockdown. The lockdowns did exactly nothing, and saved no one that wouldn't otherwise have survived. We should have accepted the cost of half a million lives as the cost of freedom, mourned them, and moved on. Instead we're literally killing our own children by subjecting them to lives of poverty, stealing years from their expected lifespan to try to keep a handful of fat, dying boomers on life support for a few more months.

>>17929440
>why yes I am in fact a Moldbuggian hyperscholar

>>17929475
But they do. Yarvin does not believe in conflicts between majority and minority groups, not in the way that you describe them. He discusses these issues here:
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/11/why-i-am-not-white-nationalist/
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/05/castes-of-united-states/
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/05/bdh-ov-conflict_07/
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/05/utley-rule-and-bdh-alliance/

You who argue that people assimilate quickly into American culture are not lt actually helping OP by arguing for multiculturalism, you are arguing against it to an extreme degree.

The studies don't on the negative effects of multiculturalism are done in the west and often in America.
If different peoples fully integrated into American culture still cause internal strife then multiculturalism can never work, no matter how much integration takes place.

>>17929551
You're basically just linking random articles at this point. The conflicts between majority and minority groups is one of the central tenants of almost all his writing. He just objects to the typical selection, framing and categorization. Nothing I've said in this thread describes them incorrectly and if you think it does succinctly point out EXACTLY where you see that.

>>17929140
>That has nothing to do with demographics and everything to do with American liberalism. Are Slovakia, Italy, Spain, Austria, Switzerland, or Germany, all countries that still have overwhelming European majorities, more or less liberal than the United States?
> Read Gramsci. These people absorb the hegemonic discourse in the United States and become liberals. That is my point.
Don’t misunderstand me, I have no sympathy for american liberalism. Bashing liberalism doesn’t nullify the observations on the influence of race on politics. I think its naive to ignore race as a factor in politics, just as I find it silly when performativists ask me to ignore the implications of biological sex on gender. People gravitate and trust their own kind more than others, there are plenty of studies and examples you can dig up on the subject. Find them and read them and in exchange I’ll read gramsci.
>Where in God's name do you live? I've never in my life met an Asian of this sort, and I've spent time in Asian-majority areas of the country.
Then I don’t know where you’ve been either. Not all, but many (if not a majority) of asians during my time at university stuck together almost exclusively for studying, living together, going out etc., regardless whether they were exchange students or second/third generation asians. Its not just my observation, ask any asian and they’ll note the same thing. My asian friends and I discussed asian-american culture and they admitted as much. Asian-Americans network together strongly in their community and in business.
By the way, i’m not saying that asian americans don’t interact whatsoever with people outside their group, which maybe is what you think i’m suggesting. i’m saying they prioritize their community and protect their culture against total liberalization (aka destruction).
> American-born Asians show more of a trend toward outgroup marriage than any other racial group.
Yeah, this is true for asian females. A bit of an anomaly if I can be honest with you considering the rate and pattern is matched in no other group. That, and their in group preference is still higher than their out-group preference.

Being integrated into liberalism doesn’t translate to being incorporated into a nation. Liberalism is self destructive and it can be seen in how the people it pulls into its folds eat away at it, lambast it, criticize it for not doing enough for the world, all the while using it to beat away at the remnants of america’s native culture rooted in christian ecclesiasticism, the land, and its defining historical narrative. I recognize the country will never be what it once was; yet to accelerate the destabilizing factors, mainly immigration, is suicidal. We will never escape the post-modern problem of meaning without reconstructing a fully fleshed out story for this country, as this elongated, schizophrenic deconstructionist attitude found in liberalism cannot build or preserve anything.

>>17929621
>You're basically just linking random articles at this point.
No.
>The conflicts between majority and minority groups is one of the central tenants of almost all his writing
No, it's not.
>He just objects to the typical selection, framing and categorization
No.
>Nothing I've said in this thread describes them incorrectly and if you think it does succinctly point out EXACTLY where you see that.
I've already posted a lengthy quote that should demonstrate to you why you are wrong. I will do so once more, and if you refuse to admit your error, I will be forced to end this conversation.
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/11/why-i-am-not-white-nationalist/
In my model, there are not two sides but five. Three of these sides are white, two are swarthy. And we see no mysterious masochism at all, just the usual hominid struggle for factional dominance. One of the white parties (Brahmin) is ganging up with the two swarthy parties (Dalit, Helot) to apply a good old-fashioned whupping to the other two white parties (Vaisya, Optimate). Just another afternoon of nasty on the History Channel.

Not only does my model clarify the reality, it clarifies the tactical options. We see immediately that Fjordman is asking the impossible. His solution is simply for the B faction to dump its DH allies and unite with its OV victims. The lion will lie down with the lamb. Yeah, right! Perhaps Fjordman could be so kind as to inform us of the last occasion on which this worked.

Now, it’s certainly likely that if the BDH alliance triumphs entirely and manages to wipe out all remnants of the OVs, the DHes will just have the Bs for breakfast. Judith Todd could tell you all about it. But has she recanted? Not even. By and large, the Brahmins are absolutely sincere. And since they are the ruling class, their ability to ignore reality is almost unlimited.

And, more to the point, what is the one ideology least likely to convince them to change their nefarious ways? What is the system of thought that Brahmins are most powerfully inoculated against? White nationalism! It’s a strategy that couldn’t be better designed to fail. It is almost eerie in its profound and incurable ineffectiveness.

There is another way to see white nationalism: as a strategy to motivate the OVs to rise up, cast aside their false consciousness, and throw off the Brahmin yoke.

If it’s possible, this is an even worse idea than the lie-down-with-the-lion plan. What was the Second World War, if not an OV rebellion? Did it work? Even if it had worked, would it have been an improvement? Um…

Some of the most fascinating phenomena of postwar history are the rare attempts at actual military defiance of Universalist rule. These include the OAS in Algeria, the AWB in South Africa, and of course the Rhodesian and old South African regimes. Possibly the American Patriot movement counts as well. All these efforts have one thing in common: they were all spectacular failures.

>>17929603
It's quite beautiful really. Liberals indirectly arguing against multiculturalism because they think you're being racist.

>>17929479
>There was never a need for any lockdown. The lockdowns did exactly nothing
Then how come Australia, New Zealand, China, South Korea, Vietnam, and Japan among others have been almost entirely covid-free for months? The fact is that extremely strict 2-month lockdowns work perfectly. Compare this to Brazil who hasn't locked down and is currently dealing with one of the worst outbreaks in the world.

>>17928633
Nigerians are actually mercifully intelligent.

I believe there is a current clandestine power struggle going on behind the scenes between white America and the recent influx of elites from third world wastelands like India, Nigeria, South America and South East Asia in the years since WW2. America is basically Race War: The Country and I don’t mean race war in the Wignat sense. I think this can be noticeable in the extreme hatred that successful Asian immigrants have toward white America. Vocal and prominent activists like Dr. Eugene Gu of Vanderbilt University clearly believe white Americans, especially middle class and below, to be of a lower order of humanity and they don’t much to hide it either. They clearly think they are biologically superior.

This new political “Anti-White” coalition that’s formed in the wake of the cultural fallout of the Trayvon Martin incident (which is when I believe this so-called “Woke” cultural era began) seems dedicated not to smashing American institutions created by whites but to smash white America itself (its wealth, its culture, its history). There is real, genuine and unreasonable hatred of “white people” in the US I believe that stems from a deeply rooted psychological humiliation that upper (and lower) class minorities feel that resents their ancestors being decisively bested by the white peoples of Europe. It’s interesting discussing topics with left-of-centre white Americans because they aren’t reluctant to express how ashamed they are of being both white and American. They feel perpetually tormented by their supposed guilt and are offered no chance of redemption or forgiveness for their role in US society which leads to humiliating prostrations such as pic related. Black Lives Matter is essentially a flagellant style cult of whites practicing racial mortification.

That’s my take on the current situation in the United States. Obviously material factors like climate change are exasperating the situation.

>>17929663
Just end the conversation. It's extremely clear that you don't get it and are probably never going to get it. What you just posted achieves the opposite of your intent.

>>17929690
Whoops wrong pic, this was supposed to be the pic I mentioned. White protestors washing the feet of Black Lives Matter activists in a secular religious ceremony.

>>17929670
>How did a bunch of literal islands manage to isolate themselves in a way that one of the largest countries in the world couldn't
Are you for real?
>Accepting china's "no new cases since March 2020" bullshit at face value
Oh, you're completely full of shit.

>>17929657
>Not all, but many (if not a majority) of asians during my time at university stuck together almost exclusively for studying, living together, going out etc., regardless whether they were exchange students or second/third generation asians.

>Its not just my observation, ask any asian and they’ll note the same thing
Okay, I'll ask all the Asians who I ate and hung out with why they refuse to hang out with non-Asians like myself. I've already asked Asian-Americans about this, and they all say that Asians desperately want to assimilate and spend their time hanging around with non-Asians. Some Asian groups, like Japanese-Americans, went out of their way to marry non-Japanese Americans just so that they could assimilate. You are either living in an alternate reality or in a very racist part of the country. All I can say is that things are not like this in California.
>By the way, i’m not saying that asian americans don’t interact whatsoever with people outside their group, which maybe is what you think i’m suggesting. i’m saying they prioritize their community and protect their culture against total liberalization (aka destruction).
Then how do you explain recent events in this country? What I see is Asian-American youth supporting liberals, who have no intention of giving them anything in return, and reacting with shock and horror when the alliance that they have been trying to join spits on and attacks them. In relation to this, I remember seeing one of those maps of the 2016 election that showed that if only Asian-Americans had voted, all fifty states would've gone for Hillary.
>Yeah, this is true for asian females. A bit of an anomaly if I can be honest with you considering the rate and pattern is matched in no other group. That, and their in group preference is still higher than their out-group preference.
Perhaps this ïn-group preference" thing that HBD types have been peddling is of no significance. Note also that white liberals, who supposedly have high out-group preference, overwhelmingly live among and exclusively marry other whites.
>Being integrated into liberalism doesn’t translate to being incorporated into a nation
I don't know what you mean by "nation." All I can say is that these people are integrated into their milieu.
>Liberalism is self destructive and it can be seen in how the people it pulls into its folds eat away at it, lambast it, criticize it for not doing enough for the world
But they aren't eating away at liberalism by doing that. They are furthering it.
>all the while using it to beat away at the remnants of america’s native culture rooted in christian ecclesiasticism, the land, and its defining historical narrative
White liberals have led the charge in that regard.
>I recognize the country will never be what it once was; yet to accelerate the destabilizing factors, mainly immigration, is suicidal.
I ask you again. Are Switzerland, Slovakia, Germany, and Italy more or less liberal than America?

>>17929690
This is more or less the case. Anti-colonial philosophy and solutions are just to rationalize their blatant racism towards and hatred for whites. Its good to note also that not all immigrants are like this. Republican muslims have the philosophy of scoring wins on intersecting values, such as anti-lgbt, anti-BLM riots that destroy their businesses, and there are a surprising many of them in certain states. With that said, the anti-white narrative is so institutionalized that such exemplary demographics won’t grow or sustain themselves, especially across generations who are inundated with propaganda. Its sad, really.

>>17929716
Since March 2019*

>>17929690
You are delusional.
>>17929695
Curtis Yarvin saying that the conflict is not between the majority and the minority, but between specific social castes defined by occupation and prestige does not support your claims. At this point, I can only conclude that you are either illiterate or delusional.

>>17929716
South Korea, Vietnam, and China aren't islands. You're engaged in a massive cope. If there was even a HINT of China still dealing with Covid the mainstream media would be talking about that all day long in their endless stream of China-bashing propaganda, but they can't do it because China is quite clearly free of Covid. Continue to cope as your retard country shoots itself in the foot over and over. When the worse pandemics come, and they will come, enjoy living in a place without lockdowns.

>>17929779
China is not free of covid, they are sane enough to treat it like a bad flu season.

>>17929767
>but between specific social castes defined by occupation and prestige

He's very explicit that these are temporary alliances that exist in times of great instability and that when things become more stable the majority and minority battle starts to dominate once more.

>>17929803
>He's very explicit that these are temporary alliances that exist in times of great instability and that when things become more stable the majority and minority battle starts to dominate once more.
I read Curtis Yarvin religiously, and I can tell you that he has never made such an assertion.

>>17929810
Wrong.

>>17929779
You can't seriously believe a country of 1.3 billion people with loads of international movement actually has no cases of Covid dude. They just don't care because it literally only kills old and really fat people

>>17929779
South Korea might as well be an island, considering they're surrounded on three sides by water and the fourth by an impassible minefield. China and Vietnam are outright lying about their infection rates, and you're gobbling it down. Meanwhile, in the US, thousands of people ALREADY on hospice care, expected to die imminently for other reasons, are being listed as confirmed coronavirus victims because they happened to catch the rona while they were busy dying of heart disease and cancer.

>>17929826
South Korea is still letting people in from outside. They just force them to pay several thousand dollars to spend two weeks in strict quarantine before letting them do whatever they want.

>>17929834
Yes, the same is true of Australia and New Zealand and Japan. Those are the advantages of being relatively small countries on islands and not one of the largest countries in the world with 7,500 miles of porous borders.

>>17929851
>And Japan
Japan is not letting anyone in. You don't seem to know much about the COVID policies of these countries.

>>17929868
Yes, if I was more informed I would know that China hasn't had a single case of covid in over two years.

>>17929879
If you were more informed, you'd know that that was my first post concerning the coronavirus in this thread.

>>17929892
If I was more informed, I still wouldn't care.

>>17929741
>I've already asked Asian-Americans about this, and they all say that Asians desperately want to assimilate and spend their time hanging around with non-Asians.
Of course they will say that - who wouldn't? Talk and behavior are distinct. Look at the statistics and you will see they have powerful in-group behavior.
>Okay, I'll ask all the Asians who I ate and hung out with why they refuse to hang out with non-Asians like myself
Lmao dude. I literally addressed this for you so you wouldn't go and say something stupid like this.
>Then how do you explain recent events in this country? What I see is Asian-American youth supporting liberals, who have no intention of giving them anything in return, and reacting with shock and horror when the alliance that they have been trying to join spits on and attacks them. In relation to this, I remember seeing one of those maps of the 2016 election that showed that if only Asian-Americans had voted, all fifty states would've gone for Hillary.
Liberalism=/="liberal" in the colloquial sense. You should learn this distinction before talking to anyone else on this board. Asians, and all other minority groups, support left-wing politics while protecting their group culture. Its a nobrainer they vote majority left, they want the visa status of their relatives protected and they have no stake in protecting whites from being bashed.
>Note also that white liberals, who supposedly have high out-group preference, overwhelmingly live among and exclusively marry other whites.
You are making my point for me! You seem caught between wanting to hate the left and not associate yourself with the discussion of race. You realize acknowledging the political reality of race doesn't mandate a reactionary stance.
>I don't know what you mean by "nation." All I can say is that these people are integrated into their milieu.
I've made clear in the last two posts how integration is a purposeful misnomer to hide how poorly race relations in the US have matured, and I will not explain it again.
>But they aren't eating away at liberalism by doing that. They are furthering it.
Have you read zero left-wing discourse? It is entirely anti-liberal. Again, I don't think you have an understanding of what Liberalism is.
>I ask you again. Are Switzerland, Slovakia, Germany, and Italy more or less liberal than America?
Yeah, they're "progressive" in the sense that they have socialized services and have adopted *some* left wing philosophy into their civics discourse. The fact is that they've only began the process of mass immigration per there own philosophy, and they are having an entirely negative, reactionary experience with it. All the countries you've listed still have an in-tact, contiguous historical narrative because they're demographics reflect their genealogy. Now that is under the process of being severed, you can see the spurts of right wing reaction bubbling in each one of these countries.

The world is already rather homogenized thanks to globalism. Trying to force cultural segregation upon already developed nations would have even worse consequences.

>>17929909
What a vague and thoughtless comment.

I don't think the west is as fucked as it appears to be. There aren't hordes of vigorous barbarians beyond the gates. East Asia suffers from the same social problems of Europe and has birth rates that are just as bad. Everywhere else is too incompetent to be a threat. Do you feel threatened by the army of India? Have you seen how they code?
And for all the ISIS bullshit of the last decade, Islam and Arabs don't have the vitality to be "the people" of the 21st century. Everyone in the middle east is becoming fatter, less religious, and more "modern".
The only part of the world where fertility isn't rapidly declining is sub-saharan Africa. And I'm not convinced about their military potential.

>>17929922
Because you disagree with it you think it's thoughtless and yet you fail to provide a single counterargument. I can easily expand on my point if you like. Existing cultures have become very alike over past centuries and small groups assimilated to larger ones. This development has been so extreme that many huge cultural concepts have become basically universal. I'm talking about things like modern fiat money, the worker/employer contract relationship, the calendar, division of day time, nuclear family, schools, nation state, military, police, court, law... Of course every country in the world handles these matters slightly differently and some significant exceptions can be found but what is remarkable is that the understanding is so common that people take it for granted that these are significant cultural concepts that don't have to be at all.

>>17929957
>There aren't hordes of vigorous barbarians beyond the gates.

This is where you're wrong. Foreign militaries haven't been a serious concern for like 60 years.

>>17929957
Ask the Tocharians if they feel fucked.

>>17929985
No one is arguing for complete cultural segregation, so you are starting off by arguing against a viewpoint no one shares.
Nations can be developed and in large parts accept international culture without multiculturalism, Japan, South Korea and all of Europe east of Germany are good examples.

Further if you actually traveled you would notice that even international places have quite a lot of cultural quirks. In Thailand a waiter will almost never ask you to clarify your order or ask you to repeat yourself, this is out of respect but it can lead to hilarious results. In Germany it's important to support the state and trust its machinery.
In America individualism is very important.

>>17930064
>No one is arguing for complete cultural segregation, so you are starting off by arguing against a viewpoint no one shares.
No one is arguing for anything specific in general, because you're too stupid or too weak-willed to argue for a coherent state of the world that you'd like to see.

>In Thailand a waiter will almost never ask you to clarify your order or ask you to repeat yourself, this is out of respect but it can lead to hilarious results.
Well no fucking shit there are tons of minute differences in communication and social interaction that exist. I never said that the world is completely homogenized, in my view it's something like half-mix with some clumps of very heterogenous places here and there. The most extreme examples I can think of are uncontacted tribes. They are so different they may as well be a different species. If we think of that as one extreme and completely homogeneity as the other extreme, then most of the world's groups engaged in the global deconomy would fall much further to the right extreme than to the tribe extreme.

>>17930109
>No one is arguing for anything specific in general, because you're too stupid or too weak-willed to argue for a coherent state of the world that you'd like to see
I arguing against your post which didn't quote anyone, you fucking retard.

>>17930124
Ok take a step back that you're making too many assumptions about what I said based on short responses in an informal medium. I never even said that anyone is "arguing for complete cultural segregation", you used the word complete in your dishonest argument. What I said was that forcing cultural segregation would have worse consequences and we have seen that in various historical conflicts. Many different viewpoints exists that all want different extremes of cultural division. My comment was vague because I'm always considering every position at once rather than arguing against your specific worldview. Asian countries are a good example of homogeneity but these are societies with a specific historical development that brought them to this point. America, for a counterpoint, has a very different historical circumstance that basically means heterogeneity is built in and getting rid of is not a conflict free process. Europe is also different, Africa is different too. Decide what you want to talk about and stick to it. If you try to speak for every place at once then you have to be vague or you end up saying falsities.

>>17930192
If we rule out all forms of segregation, but also accept both the idea of liberal racial equality and the idea that multiculturalism has extremely negative consequences, it seems that America is destined to be dominated by China or another nation like it.

>>17928780
>My dude, you sound like you have no knowledge of the world

Go back to school you massive faggot

The fact that all you yank faggots write paragraphs upon paragraphs about immigration when you can clearly see that the migration that made America was from Europe, selective and 'racist'. Hispanics only came to the US in (large numbers) by the mid 80s

Those who argue that there's no difference between Europeans and South Asians, or Europeans and Africans are either very sheltered or subversive.

>>17930847
wat?

>>17929741
>I don't know what you mean by "nation"
This retard ahahahaha

>>17930861
It was a general comment on most modern discussions of migration. E.g. America was founded by Europeans, therefore mass migration from the third world isn't going to do much for cohesion of the nation. There's this sort of two-faced approach when these liberal types discuss immigration: "they are just as American as you are!" And "America is becoming less white/less European, and that's a good thing". Dishonesty or failure to properly engage in the argument.

>>17930898
They become integrated in this 'culture' that involves becoming extremely progressive and consuming large amounts of social media and online content.
That's it, culturally they're radically different but many seem to pretend that buying Adidas, watching nerflix and all using Twitter in English counts as integration

>>17928544
My argument is basically that I don’t care basically. What I want out of society and what the papers measure as societal goods are different and kinda incompatible. Alotta of the papers and posts here talk about “long-term stability” and shit like that. Frankly I don’t care about stability,homogeneity,civilization or longetivity. I’d be fine living in a nomadic non state society(which may be inevitable for a significant portion of world population, read desert). Entropy,deterrotilazation,collapse or whatever you call it can’t be stopped so you might as well just go with it.

Tl:dr the natural conclusion of u/acc/ Thought is hypertaoism

You can have a Multiethnic empire, but a monoculture *MUST* exist. Multiculturalism a weakness that enemies of said empire can exploit America is a prime example of Multiculturalism running awry.

>>17928544
Nick Land be like we need more Chinese and Jews and less middling IQ whites.

>>17928633
>white
No such thing kiddo

>>17928780
>my dude
Stopped reading right here. Genuinely, and this is not a joke, you need to work on not sounding like a massive faggot. I'm not joking. It's seriously something you need to work on.

>>17928544
My problem is in fact that immigrants assimilate too well. Less a barbarian invasion that will destroy the system and more just importing brownies whose kids will be gayer than the European Americans.

>>17929957
True most of our problems are internal. However climate migrations of millions of Subsaharans will be an actual threat.

>>17928544
>divide and conquer
Neoliberal global capital is the golem of Babylon, ‘cosmopolitanism’ is the rationale for mercenary labor-as-population control to suppress any closing of the wealth gap

>>17932063
>mfw it almost rhymes

>>17928558
Moldbug makes the argument against immigration when discussing crime in his Open letter to progressives book. Claims that the UK state has victimised the population as it has imported criminals wholesale and raised the crime rate like 4000% in the past 150 years

>>17929377
You can't not have minority groups, though. If it wasn't Hispanics, it would be Irish or Italians or natives or whatever the fuck. And if you managed to somehow turn the US into an anglo ethnostate, you'd still have divisions between east and west, north and south, city and country dwellers, light and dark haired, etc. Any place you can separate this from that is vulnerable to being exploited. The solution is not to mandate that everything must be the same, it's to stop falling for the same old tricks again and again.

>>17928544
You've been lied to. People are racist for good reasons

>>17928686
>Fornication

>>17928655
>unmentionable

>>17928544
I love this guy

>>17928544
>has extremely negative consequences for large groups
extremely based, now how do we fuck china