/lit/ - Literature

we just had a bell curve thread, faggot

>>17881031
Very racist and desu should be banned and has no place in a modern democracy.

>>17881031
IQ being real, in large pat genetic, predicting for a fair amount of incomes, is pretty clearly true. You have to use rather motivated reasoning to come to any other conclusion.

This book makes some weird predictions and theories about how society is developing as a result of IQ though, predictions which both don't make that much sense to me, and don't have much evidence supporting them. Like I can see there is a small amount of what he calls 'assortative mating' going on, but it's only a vague trend in some parts of society(that always kind of existed), there are so many other variables.

Chocolate Rain
Some stay dry and others feel the pain
Chocolate Rain
A baby born will die before the sin
Chocolate Rain
The school books say it can't be here again
Chocolate Rain
The prisons make you wonder where it went
Chocolate Rain
Build a tent and say the world is dry
Chocolate Rain
Zoom the camera out and see the lie
Chocolate Rain
Forecast to be falling yesterday
Chocolate Rain
"Only in the past" is what they say
Chocolate Rain
Raised your neighborhood insurance rates
Chocolate Rain
Makes us happy living in a gate
Chocolate Rain
Made me cross the street the other day
Chocolate Rain
Made you turn your head the other way

Chocolate Rain
History quickly crashing through your veins
Chocolate Rain
Using you to fall back down again
Chocolate Rain
History quickly crashing through your veins
Chocolate Rain
Using you to fall back down again

Chocolate Rain
Seldom mentioned on the radio
Chocolate Rain
It's the fear your leaders call control
Chocolate Rain
Worse than swearing, worse than calling names
Chocolate Rain
Say it publicly and you're insane
Chocolate Rain
No one wants to hear about it now
Chocolate Rain
Wish real hard, it goes away somehow
Chocolate Rain
Makes the best of friends begin to fight
Chocolate Rain
But did they know each other in the light?
Chocolate Rain
Every February washed away
Chocolate Rain
Stays behind as colors celebrate
Chocolate Rain
The same crime has a higher price to pay
Chocolate Rain
The judge and jury swear it's not the face

Chocolate Rain
History quickly crashing through your veins
Chocolate Rain
Using you to fall back down again
Chocolate Rain
History quickly crashing through your veins
Chocolate Rain
Using you to fall back down again

Chocolate Rain
Dirty secrets of economy
Chocolate Rain
Turns that body into GDP
Chocolate Rain
The Bell Curve blames the baby's DNA
Chocolate Rain
But test scores are how much the parents make
Chocolate Rain
Flipping cars in France the other night
Chocolate Rain
Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai
Chocolate Rain
'Cross the world and back its all the same
Chocolate Rain
Angels cry and shake their heads in shame
Chocolate Rain
Lifts the ark of paradise in sin
Chocolate Rain
Which part do you think you're living in?
Chocolate Rain
More than marching, more than passing law
Chocolate Rain
Remake how we got to where we are

Chocolate Rain
History quickly crashing through your veins
Chocolate Rain
Using you to fall back down again
Chocolate Rain
History quickly crashing through your veins
Chocolate Rain
Using you to fall back down again

>>17881066
i move away from the mic to breathe in

but mostly socioeconomic issues don't explain poor test scores.

Amy books on deja vu?

https://sys.4channel.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvocaroo.com%2F18DyqC0yzB1i

>>17881031
Jews are the smartest race. Daily reminder.

>>17881031
never read it but racist

>>17881031
A little dated but the data used were fairly broad and the conclusions are still accurate.

>>17881598
bullshit they're just one of several elite white groups, they're ingroup behaviour is what stands out most about them but their artistic skills are shit

>>17881613
iq doesnt measure aritistic skills, and there were plenty of good jewish directors and writers

>>17881598
>no good philosopher
Worthless race

>>17881031
It's still a good primer on IQ.

>>17881738
>iq doesnt measure aritistic skills
IQ is somewhat broad but different brain regions manage different things and vary between groups. there are proportionally few good jewish painters or sculpters

>>17881575
The tests are rigged in favour of certain cultural groups or some shit

>>17881776
This is a debunked canard.

>>17881031
The research is slightly out of date IIRC, but not wrong in kind or conclusion. The book is not a racist screed, race itself is only addressed in one chapter. Said chapter mostly just concludes "IQ has the same implications for black people that it has for white people." This is only a radical claim if you are a zealous egalitarian or race activist whose career and political ambitions depend on racial discrimination being the primary cause of any deficiency in the non-white standard of living.
The book only became controversial because Herrnstein himself died before he could defend it alongside Murray. Murray is a sociologist and not a psychologist or a trained expert in psychometrics or anything like that, Herrnstein was. Not only that, but Herrnstein as a matter of academic respect and so on had a place in the psychological community that he earned and that could only be "taken away" if he died. It also became controversial because a lie was spread that this book was used to justify welfare reform in the 90's, and so Charles Murray was the "most dangerous conservative." The book that was actually informing the policy decision, if at all, was "Coming Apart" which is exclusively and explicitly only about white Americans.
The book has a certain mystique to it in conversations, and oddly has a place as some like necronomicon of scientific racism when it's really only about IQ first and race second. The only way there can be productive discussion about it is if a thorough demystification effort is engaged in, so that it isn't attacked by egalitarian harpies and championed by illiterate racists.

racism aside, it's pure unfiltered pseudoscience that has been so outrageously BTFO by both other researchers in the field and just the passage of time (the differences in IQ he talks about have changed dramatically since 1994, making his conclusions pointless).

it's trash, don't bother with it. Read the mismeasure of man by Stephen Jay Gould instead.

>>17881975
oh boy

>>17881975

but obviously any book on IQ is going to be pseud trash since IQ itself is a pseudoscience

>>17882016
Any books on astrology

>>17882016
based

>>17882016
Quiet Taleb.

>>17882977
>posts a graph of numbers i literally made up with a formula i refuse to explain
As you can see the distribution is in fact not normalized,

>>17881975
>>17882016
Why do you say IQ is pseudoscience?

>>17881975
(You)

Waste of time desu
It’s the most repetitive thing I have ever read for information that anyone on this website already knows

>>17881975
Bait or cope either way cringe
There is perhaps no single subject with a more extensive volume of research than IQ

>>17881975
>Read the mismeasure of man by Stephen Jay Gould instead.
Lol. That Jew got BTFO so many times it made the Holocaust look tame by comparison

>>17881031
Yes. Worth reading.

>>17883678
>>17883686
>>17884050
YWNBAW

>>17884075
Yes.

>>17881047
Oy vey

>>17882016
Cringe

Its a load of shit really. But it's worth reading

>>17882016
IQ to measure intelligence is like BMI being used to measure health
Yeah, you're gonna get some outliers and wrong numbers, but overall it's a pretty good heuristic

>>17881768
Wasn't Marc Chagall Jewish?

>>17881575
Dude holy shit why go through all this hubbub. You know, I know, we all know. Nobody’s saying to go kiss a nigger but man do you need our approval before you can actually read the book? If the whole world was white we wouldn’t be able to figure out this IQ thing. Gets hard to tell after 130

>>17881049
>IQ being real, in large pat genetic, predicting for a fair amount of incomes, is pretty clearly true.
only sub 100 iq people say shit like this.

>>17887635
How so? I thought the book did a pretty good job explaining most of that

>>17881031
>>>/pol/

>>17887635
weak bait, here's your (You)

>>17887664
He's right though. The bell curve is not accepted by the scientific community.

>>17887723
Runners aren’t accepted by cripples.

This madman's next book is going all in

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1641771976/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1641771976

The Harambe meme became the perfect parody of the sentimentality and absurd priorities of Western liberal performative politics and the online mass hysteria that often characterized it.

>>17887654
> I thought the book did a pretty good job
yes, you thought. Because you're a retard who easily falls for shit arguments made by people with next to zero credentials

>>17887861
>We on the center left and center right who are [...]
LMAO that's some embarrassing "plz dont call me far right :((((" disclaimer. Everyone is cucked.

>>17887960
Okay cool. What particular bit is their “shit argument” and why? There’s a lot of incoherent rambling in this thread but no one actually making an attempt at a critique. Was it the use of parental SES? Is it IQ tests or the idea of g in general? Did you read Gould in highschool? There’s legitimately things to criticise in the book like how the politics don’t necessarily follow from the earlier chapters, but I reckon you’re just a fucktard taking out of your arse about a book you’ve never even seen the front cover of.

>>17888024
Anon, he's a lefty. You can tell by his language. These people are always best ignored.

I want all of you claiming to dispute the bell curve to focus on this post and reply to me with your explanation for why the government commissioned panel that surveyed the opinions of top psychologists before publishing its conclusions was largely in agreement on the significance of IQ and its genetic heritability.
or why papers in top journals all talk about the validity of the heritability of IQ

>>17887723
In what sense not excepted?

The black/white iq-difference are well established, as well as other properties of iq.
Read Linda Gotfredson et al's article, or the APA investigation done after the release (think it was called "Intelligence: known and unknows").
In chapter 13, they really understate the case for that the black/white gap is heritable, which is obviously true, but remains controversial for political reasons. But this is like one chapter of the book.

However, the main thesis of the book - that the increasing intellectual demand on society will lead to a stratification into intellectual castes, and this is problematic - may be a bit more speculative.

Personally, I don't agree totally with this conclusion, but it's an interesting idea, one that corresponds partially to some trends I've observed in my life.

>>17888070
>However, the main thesis of the book - that the increasing intellectual demand on society will lead to a stratification into intellectual castes, and this is problematic - may be a bit more speculative.
Well that didn't fucking happen. There's no intellectual caste. It all got worse.

iq means nothing except that you're good at solving bullshit little shape puzzles.

>>17888881
Then how come it correlates with wealth, school grades etc

>>17887961
He's not even vaguely far right, being far right is not 'thinking there are race differences'

>>17881031
>>>/pol/

>>17881613
they literally wrote the bible (all of the Old Testament and
most of the New Testament) and have authors like Kafka, Proust, Mailer, Salinger, Heine, Gertrude Stein and I’m sure plenty of others. You can’t claim that “their artistic achievements are shit”.

>>17887960
>made by people with next to zero credentials
what a revealing thing to write lmao. You can tell this inflamed bugman's entire thought process regarding this subject was simply to ascertain its low status and that of its author. His mind just bleats out in a panic 'this is racism, this is pseudoscience, wikipedia tells me this is debunked, if anyone ever thought I believed this id be in trouble'. He couldn't begin to address why he thinks IQ research is flawed. Not even sapient.

>>17888972
>“their artistic skills are shit”*

>>17888961
>>17887657
/pol/ is for the discussion of news and politics, not books.

>>17889040
DONT DISCUSS CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS ON LIT ITS MY SAFE SPACE BACK TO POL BACK TO POL GO GO GO GO LEAVE ME ALONE MARX THREADS ONLY

It's worth reading if you want to be that guy who reads meme books and posts meme opinions in order to fit in

>>17889075
Are you incapable of imagining caring about a subject except in terms of 'being a type of guy'

>>17889079
Of course, a subject, but there are books in every subject that are pure memes. The God Delusion by Dawkins is another one. You can be an atheist but that book isn't worth reading unless you want to know what the meme version of atheism in the early 21st century was like. Maybe it is of a historical interest but not much else

>>17888024
>There’s legitimately things to criticise in the book like how the politics don’t necessarily follow from the earlier chapters

This is one of the only legitimate criticisms of the book. The first half or so is just repeating very well established scientific facts. The problem is that leftists are forced to deny the first half because for some odd reason they think that if the first half is true it follows that we have to treat "them" as subhuman.

>>17886707
Kind of, I think the critique of IQ is more of a construct validity critique because what we mean by intelligence isn't exactly what IQ is measuring, it's a fantastic predictor of academic success but honestly for a board that shits on academia so much I do wonder why people jerk off IQ tests, its literally what it's designed for.

>>17889040
hmm, just this very morning a thriving topic on a book called "why im no longer talking to white people about race" was removed by a seething janny. odd.