/lit/ - Literature

I'm an agnostic, but that's not a very good critique of the Christian God. The belief that some educated Christians hold, like William Lane Craig, is that it is a false dilemma, where they just say that the Christian God is Good itself, meaning that the Good is not something apart from God, but the Good is God Himself. That way, they escape the dilemma by showing that there isn't really a dilemma.

>>17881964
This only makes sense for polytheism

>>17882072
Doesn't make sense for polytheism either. Good isn't the same as moral. Like a machine that works as intended is good, but what if it turns out the machine is for killing? It's still a "good" machine, but it's also not morally good since it kills.

>>17882072
How so?

>>17881964
godfags btfo

>>17882122
>>17882033

the latter. if you want to get into his kingdom, you have to play by his rules. i hear hell is very welcoming though.

>>17881964
False dilemma. God IS good. What is good is neither dependent on nor independent of God.

>>17882261
Is acting Good consequently imitating god, or following his path?

>>17882322
Define good.

>>17882111
It's morally good if it kills sinners

Morality is masturbation for superstitious morons, you just twist and turn words until they mean what you would like them to mean, then you ejaculate all over your pristine pages and call it scripture

>>17882351
Certainly not approval of rape and genocide, so that rules out the Biblical God

Both can be true simultaneously

>>17882033
This is how orthodox Christians see it. OP’s pic is a weird western Christian dichotomy. God fills all things, there is no separate “goodness,” so to speak

>>17882360
Is it circular, both make the other true vice versa

>>17881964
First, obviously. That's the way Mormons roll and they're right.

>>17881964
This is misleading. The dialogue isn't about Good, but about piety. It's simply an introduction to the Forms.

>>17881964
There is no god nor good.

>>17882404
What adjective do you use when something has the qualities required for a particular role? Like a hammer that can drive in nails is what kind of hammer would you say?

>>17881964
>What comes from an absolute principle is arbitrary
Do bugmen really? (+ Their logical axioms for le heckin' science are just as arbitrary.)

>>17882354
>i don't believe in morality
>christianity is bad because it's immoral
Interesting argument.

>>17882322
False dilemma. If one is good then they are taking part in the being of God. It isn't imitation or following.

>Euthyphro dilemma is an inevitable logical quandary when phenomenologically reflecting on the presence and nature of the Good
>neither proposition in the logical schema makes sense
>discursive reason is left in aporia
>yet the givenness of the Good is irrefutable
>ergo phenomenology of the Good is irrefutable
>ergo discursive aporia is inevitable
>the very facts of our consciousness point out of mere opinion, generating logical clarifications and logical schemes, and then the insufficiencies of the logical schemes point beyond themselves to a we-know-not-what
>the very nature of our thought and knowledge points us "upward" to contemplation of a higher and more perfect form of knowledge that can reconcile apparent paradoxes and explain sufficiently the manifest givens of experience
>this process is inevitable and recurs across cultures (curiously, all at the same time in world history)
>the only two options are a descent into nihilistic scepticism, or the assumption that our natural tendency to gaze toward the transcendent as the justification of the immanent is foreordained by our very constitutions
>tfw you realise the coincidentia oppositorum must be possible even though your finite consciousness cannot presently see it as possible
>tfw the friction generated by such paradoxes is living proof that God wants us to behold the Truth of the Good by cultivating it in ourselves
>tfw Plato wrote simple parables that have endured for thousands of years by thematising this "flight of the one toward the One"
>tfw in 30 pages Plato struck blows against evil and nihilism that are still resonating in the hearts of sages and sleepers alike

>>17882499
useful

>>17883346
Now list the synonyms of useful.

*yawn*
Solved by Divine Simplicity. How many times do we have to go over this?

>>17883369
helpful
practical
handy
productive
applicable
hope this helped :)

>>17882322
God is not acting good. He is the good itself.

> "Divine simplicity [entails] that God's will just is God's goodness which just is His immutable and necessary existence. That means that what is objectively good and what God wills for us as morally obligatory are really the same thing considered under different descriptions, and that neither could have been other than they are. There can be no question then, either of God's having arbitrarily commanded something different for us (torturing babies for fun, or whatever) or of there being a standard of goodness apart from Him. Again, the Euthyphro dilemma is a false one; the third option that it fails to consider is that what is morally obligatory is what God commands in accordance with a non-arbitrary and unchanging standard of goodness that is not independent of Him... He is not under the moral law precisely because He is the moral law."[132]

>>17883391
Thank you, anon.

>>17883396
>Divine simplicity [entails] that God's will just is God's goodness which just is His immutable and necessary existence.
Jay Dyer told me that Absolute Divine Simplicity leads to modal collapse and this is why Roman Catholicism is an atheist factory.

>>17881964
>"Heh, if they can't answer this contrived false dilemma then God isn't real!"

>>17881964
Does light shine because it is bright? Or Is light light because it shines?
retard questions

>>17883824
Light is bright because it shines dummy

>>17883396
>God is not acting good. He is the good itself.
>a god that starves children to death because we don’t suck his dick enough is supposed to be good

>>17884248
>doesn’t believe in objective morality
>moralizes anyway

>>17884248
>"It is written that man shall not live on bread alone"
Oh no, the children!

>>17883431
Already been refuted

>>17884248
yeah, what about it?

>>17884458
No it hasn’t; hence why Catholicism is an atheist factory

>>17884314
>believes in objective morality
>except when it comes to god's actions and duty

>>17884677
>morality is independent of an all powerful being.

>>17882360
>>17882381
literally both wrong. the absolute state of this board