/lit/ - Literature

Read Celine chronolgically

There's only one translation of each book mainly, so do the English.

Read the new directions translation of Journey. The prose is gorgeous. Very stylish writing. I haven't read anything else yet but that book is really good. Very funny early on, I couldn't believe Celine was a nazi when I found out. The book is very anti war, anti colonialism, anti capitalist. The final chapters are depressing, very depressing.

>>17864943
>anti colonialism, anti capitalist
It wasn't you read too much into it

>I couldn't believe Celine was a nazi when I found out
Because you think the Nazis are some historical mythologyical society, when they were just a central European regime in the 30s and 40s. The US is nazis to the Middle East.

>>17864987
>It wasn't you read too much into it
lmao
you're a fag

>>17865007
>you're a fag
Well it's achtuallly anti-racism, anti-colonialism, anti-capitalist manifesto. Celine basically wrote a mediation on Lenin dood!

No faggot, you're a liberal retard and writers expressing sentiments should not be iron-manned into actual arguments. You're a pleb faggot.

>>17864943
>t.marxist
There is nothing anti-colonialistic or anti-capitalist in the book, he is very nihilistic and cynical and never cared about any of that (which is way he LARPed as facist). You are just projecting your own values on his work

>>17865053
He literally despised American capitalism when he got there

>>17865329
He didn't even comment on capitalism or the system you mawkish Steinbeck fanboy, he got depressed and met Robinson, Lola, and that prostitute. When does he say hurr durr capitlaims bad, all my problems go away with communism.

>>17865372
No, not explicitly but there are many subtle undertones of deep hatred for capitalism. For example, that conversation he has at the factory, the one in which he says he is educated, read that again and tell me he isn't hating on capitalism

>>17865372
"It's sickening to watch the workers bent over their machines, intent on giving them all possible pleasure, calibrating bolts and more bolts, instead of just putting an end once and for all to this stench of oil, the vapor that burns your throat and attacks your ear drums from inside. It's not shame that makes them bow their heads. You give in to noise as you give in to war. At the machines you let yourself go with the two three ideas that are wobbling about at the top of your head. And that's the end. From then on, everything you look at, everything you touch, is hard. And everything you still manage to remember more or less becomes as rigid as iron and loses its savor in your thoughts.

All of a sudden you've become disgustingly old".

Is this not a critique of capitalism?

>>17865487
It's a depiction of unpleasant working conditions in industrial society. This is not 'a critique of capitalism'

>>17865487
A 'critique of capitalism,' is not neceassarily anti-captialism, so to speak. He expresses a dissatisfaction with life, he's not advocating for structural change. He's not some leftist retard who attempts to transcend their raw apprehensions, it's a criticism of working conditions and industrialization just as much as it is 'capitalism.' Also, most fascists were communists at one point, so there's similarity among their analyses.

>>17865462
So there's no factories in non-capitalist societies. Celine explicitly views this as a natural state of life and thus shitty.

>>17865527
>>17865514
Guys, read the book without a lens, you'll get it. You guys are so in denial and i don't understand why. It's pretty clear if you read the book Celine despised capitalism and capitalists. He shits multiple times on high society as well

>>17865611
reread the second half in paris where he deals with poorfags. he despises everyone

>>17865007
>im an anti-idpol leftist!
>yeah im a socialist but i use cool words like gay and retarded
>chapo, cumtown, redscare etc
>ackshyually the working class is badass and cool dudes like the sopranos

>>17865611
You're the one with the lens dude, you interpret a guy being nihilistic about the stuff he sees as a particular political critique.

>>17865611
>lens
I'm saying talking off the commie goggles and appreciate what he's saying you delusional midwit stop trying to fit him into your personal beliefs, he's expressing a sentiment.

>>17865777
take of the commie goggles*

>>17864987
>reading too much into it.
The critique of colonialism and rapacious capitalism is pretty blatant. Are you mentally handicapped?

>>17865812
this is one of the better b8s ive seen, bravo

>>17865812
>critique
>describing conditions as shitty, and expressing personal sentiment, so he must be CRITIQUING something for me and my bugmen leftist peers
He also describes the Africans as mentally retarded, is that a critique of de-colonization. Thank God you midwits stop after Journey.

>>17865777
Lmao you're so fucking retarded, you're literally saying "Do not interpret art". I've already provided textual evidence. If you'd read the book you would know. Celine hated war, hated capitalism, hated colonialism, hated imperialist France, hated consumerism, hated anglos and their superficiality, hated everything and everyone and even himself.

>>17865824
He blames the French for it too, did you miss that part? And yes, he also pokes fun at tribal culture but that's different. That's lighthearted in tone, the critiques of industrial capitalistic society are serious.

>>17865838
>Was an actual nazi
>No dude he's a leftist trust me I'm also a leftist
>Appreciate his raw whims instead of molding art to your personal beliefs and contemporary structures/propaganda
>No dude I need to make this work of fiction into saturated easy digestible bullshit I could understand. All his disgust is just anti-capitalism, anti-colonialism. His experiences? Yes, just vessels for my shallow academic interpretations. He only wrote the book to show the horrors of 21st century constructs.
>You're retarded dood why don't you do the same
Must be tiring to fit everything into a box.
Read Trifles and Mea Culpa you commie subhuman, was that just ironic?
Also, if you say he hated everything wouldn't you just say he's a pessimistic/nihilistic writer and his 'critiques' shouldn't be taken seriously.

>>17865849
>was an actual nazi
>calls commies Jews that should be killed in Mea Culpa
>Criticism is only serious for things I want it to be serious for
>Nah dude he's a leftist
Yes, Journey to the end of the Night is a scathing critique of capitalism and colonialism not a raw insight/look into the mind of a tortured soul and what he experienced. All these parts describing shitty things he saw, were structural propaganda affiirming my beliefs with no artistry. Yes! Why even read the book when you could read things into it and call Celine your friend? Make sure to stop after Journey though, wouldn't want to read something that isn't a 'critique' affirming my personal superficial 'beliefs.'

>>17865824
I’m not a leftist. Obviously he wasn’t either. That doesn’t mean his blatant criticisms (If you prefer that word) of colonialism and rapacious capitalism aren’t in the book.

Remember that colonialism, usury and rapacious capitalism is the reason you’ve got millions of niggers and their Jewish masters running the show in America and large parts of Europe right now.

Just because you can make a quick buck at the expense of your fellows doesn’t mean it’s prudent or moral. Ben Shapiro doesn’t have your best interest in mind.

>>17865838
>If you'd read the book you would know. Celine hated [list of things Leftists are allowed to hate]
You really don't think interpreting a book by a hilariously antisemitic Fascist as being entirely concordant with Leftist beliefs is motivated reasoning? Might there be other reasons Celine is being pessimistic about the scenes he describes than the usual list of Prog criticism?

>>17865923
My contention was never about capitalism being good or bad. I could be a Marxist for all you know, my point was reducing Journey to a critique on capitalism or communism is detestable.
Sure, I still think it's extremely reductive to view literature in these constructs. The guy also said 'anti-capitalism' which is different than a 'critique of capitalism.' I think you could read that into it, sure, but it really misses the point of disgust Celine feels and you as the reader feel when reading it, and isn't indicative of his later work.

No, of course not, Shapiro wouldn't even read Journey. But reducing art to easily digestible nonsense is pro-capitalism in nature.

>>17865909
You do know the reason Celine supported Hitler was because he believed "Hitler cares for the common man" right? Journey is a critique of all the problems that plagued the world back then through the eyes of someone who's experienced all those said problems

>>17865923
>colonialism, usury and rapacious capitalism
The 2nd item is not like the other two

>>17865952
Journey is not a critique of anything, it's an insight into the look of a dissatisfied man. His pamphlets are 'political,' and more-so 'critques,' but even that is debatable. He wrote stories, not foreign policy doctrines. I love Celine because of his writing, not because of some anti-capitalist critique that could be flushed out. If you're writng stories to criticize or change structures there's a good chance you're uninteresting and have nothing to say. Even Heart of Darkness, is more than 'anti-colonialism.'
You could say The Metamorphosis is anti-capitalist, but again these reductive constructs limit how much of the work you can experience.

>>17865985
>I'm terrified of finding my favorite writer wasn't an evil nazi I always heralded him as
>What do you mean Celine actually disliked capitalism??
>no no he just wanted to write about those subjects to display his personal dissatisfaction
>writing a book about being dissatisfied with X is not a critique of X

>>17865282
I didn't know he was so based!

>>17866008
The literal Nazis criticized him for being too antisemitic

>>17866027
Doesn't matter, Journey was published in 1932.

>>17866008
You may be mentally retarded and have proven yourself both historically illiterate and having not read Celine's pamphlets, nor understood my main point.
Yes it's not a critique, it's an element of Celine's expression/disdainful aesthetic. 'Let me calculate that on page 372 I will have a scathing critique of Captialism.' No faggot, it's something you flushed out, and can also apply to industrialization or working conditions. Capitalism only exists in your mind tranny.
I'm neither a nazi nor a pro-capitalist GOP schoolboy, you're just a retard who can only think in these easily digestible forms. If you need a fictional book to tell you capitlaism bad hurr durr I don't know what to tell you, it's much more than that.

>>17866027
>The literal Nazis criticized him for being too antisemitic
LMAO What a chad

>>17866043
I'm not denying that it's more than that. It's a great book for a multitude of reasons, one of the reasons being it makes faggots like you seethe so hard.

>>17866065
>seethe
Yes, one of my favorite authors made me seethe. You are reducing it to these shallow leftist constructions, while I've read most of Celine's work you dumb hedonistic tranny. Read Conversations with Professor Y.

>>17864891

Start with Journey, you can follow-up with Castle to Castle if you want to.

Personally I can stand his prose only in small doses, to me his books are awfully grim and repetitive.

Wait Celine is based? Burning all my Camus books right now.

>>17866073
>finding out people interpret my favorite author's work in ways I do not personally agree with and this is making me very upset!

>>17866113
>people who read one work of my second favorite author and reduce it to contemporary academic constructions, so I point out how it's infantile and said analysis is also incorrect
>Dood why are you so mad Celine makes you seethe.

>>17866080
Yes, extremely.

>>17866147
Celine, as Celine in Journey, why do his other works even matter? We aren't discussing him as a person or in complete context of his life but rather if you go by Journey, it's easy to paint him as someone who shares all these qualities - yes, seethe - you hate

>>17866172
It's the same character retard, and no it's not. You have to go out of your way to mold it to these narratives.

>>17866181
Well anon, I have not read his other books and so this discussion is pointless. You have however said or implied, many, many retarded statements in this thread and I'm compiling them here

>expressing dissatisfaction in text using critique is not the same as criticism
>books should not be interpreted independently of the writer's personal life
>art has only one meaning
>discussing art and its themes are bad

You have also proven reading more does not equate to a higher intellect.

>>17866229
You're just mentally retarded and lack basic reading comprehension. If these are the basic constructions you got out of what I've been saying, I'm not surprised you saw Journey as an anti-capitalist anti-colonialist manifesto.

>>17865944
I'm not trying to reduce the whole book to one thing or another. I'd need a lot more than a couple of 4chan posts to cover the whole book. I just think it's disingenuous to overlook his very overtly negative perspective on colonialism and capitalism that's pervasive throughout the whole African episode of the book. I think it's great and a lot more impactful that it goes beyond a materialist analysis and offers an emotional or even spiritual argument; - What the fuck are we even doing in this godforsaken place? It's too hot, it's too bright, it stinks, it's full of poor dumb niggers that are taken advantage of and I just want to go home. It's corrosive to the European body and soul to be here. - That's a much more impactful than Marx or Lenin ever managed to offer.

I agree that the mantra that 'all art is political' is dumb, but the inversion that art can't be political at all detracts from this work in my opinion. My favourite part of the book is the humour and the wild style of the prose, not that it occasionally appeals to my own political beliefs.

>>17865955
Usury is connected to both colonialism and rapacious capitalism, maybe you disagree.

>>17866262
Political beliefs are just an opiate for intellectuals. The truth is it's easy to believe something knowing it will never be implemented and if you were in a position of influence you'd ultimately have to compromise. I think this is sort of an anti-political mindset inherent to Celine's work. I mean at the end in the mental hospital with the cop, the cop just bitched about politics and nobody else gave a shit.

>>17866242
Were you lobotomized as a kid? I've never once said it's a manifesto. I just said the book contains those themes.

>>17866283
Yeah and I never said the bullshit you accused me of saying, so it evens out tranny.
I was not lobotmized, but clearly your genetalia was.

>>17866290
Your mom doesn't seem to mind

>>17865007
>>17865838

>French is at the point where I can read 20th century literature pretty comfortably
>still get filtered by Celine
one of these days, bros....

>>17866293
Clever tranny, but the truth is it'd take you a week for you to be able to even get hard, so I need not worry about that. As for your father, mother, and sister they're bent over waiting for me, as soon as I'm finished btfoing your basic bitch interpretations of literature.

>>17866309
They are waiting for you with a literary analysis textbook. You seem to not understand it very well.

>>17866332
I win, goodbye tranny, read Death on Credit at least.

>>17866341
I'll make a thread about it when I'm done

>>17866262
>Usury is connected to both colonialism and rapacious capitalism, maybe you disagree.
Christian society saw colonialism and capitalism in a very different light than usury. The first two produce something, they exploit but they produce and some form of capitalism and settlement is pretty much impossible to avoid. Usury is nothing but pure parasitism.

>>17866357
good

>>17866280
I don't think we disagree. Most of the book is a series of Bardamus getting excited for or seeking an opportunity within a certain system or ideology, then getting blackpilled. First it's nationalism, the army and the war and he gets blackpilled, then it's African colonialism and he gets blackpilled, then it's America with its liberalism and capitalism and he gets blackpilled etc.

What I'm trying to explain is that one of the take-aways for me is the dehumanizing aspects of all these systems. Some parts of the book can be described as anti-capitalist and anti-colonialist, that obviously doesn't make him a discord tranny communist. It doesn't make the book a discord tranny communist manifesto. It doesn't prescribe any ideology at all.

>>17866432
Yes, well-put.

Yes I agree, although the reasons are a bit different than the usual checklist on the liberal notepad.

This fucking thread lol

>>17865812
>critique=hate
go back to watching youtube

>>17866488
?

>>17866505
>discussing literature on a literature board

lol imagine that