/lit/ - Literature

>>17786532
>natural
Appeal to this concept is the mark of stupidity. Was it natural for monkeys to wield sticks and start eating the meat of other animals, after hundreds of thousands of years of animals acting "normally" and "naturally"?
There is no naturality and no normality whatsoever. New behaviours appear randomly as life branches in all possible directions. There is no telos in sight for any activity or modality of life, and the idea of dominance of one over others is a temporary illusion. To put it simply: everyone can do whatever the fuck they want. You should not obssess over where people decide to stick their penises given the absolute weirdness of everything surrounding you.

>>17786590
It's gross, dude.

>>17786532
>my intuition and common sense
We've got an intellectual powerhouse here everyone

>>17786603
>my feelings and sex addiction
We've got an intellectual powerhouse here everyone

>>17786602
Cooking a corpse in its own grease is also gross, yet the majority of us do it. It's just a matter of perspective. Maybe it is more conveniente for you to stop being weirded out and just accept that life in general is weird.

>>17786603
You're saying that you trust someone else's rhetoric over your own basic intuition?

>>17786624
>Cooking food is just as gross as mashing turds with your dick!

>>17786590
>was it natural for monkeys to start eating meat suddenly?
Animals have been eating other animals since they started to exist. It is their nature to ensure their own survival and eating food is great for survival.
>was it natural to start weilding sticks suddenly?
Like I said, their nature is to do what helps you survive and your race prevail. If using sticks as tools gives you an advantage it is natural to use that.

>>17786618
oh my god

>>17786632
It wholeheartedly is, as are tons of things that we do on a daily basis, such as eating eggs, drinking milk from cows, burning plants to inhale them and build machines. I don't know how you can say that putting a penis in an anus is weird when you live in giant block of materials artificially disposed around you in houses, streets, cities etc. How is a city natural? How is technology natural? How is medicine natural?
I mean, you have two options here: either you accept things are weird, or you spend an awful amount of mental energy sorting out what is "natural" and what is "unnatural" because, trust me, there are a lot of grey zones there, starting from the fact that I think you wouldn't find it equally gross to have anal sex with a woman, for example, or that the idea of having oral sex is somehow more "natural" for you. I mean, you could come up for arguments for why that is the case, and use a lot of mental energy for that instead of doing useful things, and get enraged with people on the internet for disagreeing with you, or you could just accept that some people like to put their dick in other people's anuses.

>>17786618

>>17786639
>their nature is to do what helps you survive
Makes no fucking sense. Monkeys were perfectly surviving on trees eating bananas. Why the fuck would you start wielding sticks and eat other animals?
Evolution doesn't work so that any race "prevails". Evolution works because random mutations appear and are randomly selected by a given environment. Chance wanted that wielding sticks and eating other animals worked for those handicapped monkeys who started randomly wielding them because some gene in them randomly mutated and made them go crazy and imitate predators. That's how it went. It was crazy, weird animals doing weird stuff that happened to work by chance. No thought of prevailing whatsoever. The only thing that is natural is the randomness of emerging mutations. So if among those there is the fact that some animals enjoy mashing turds with their penis, that is natural. Everything that happens in the universe is natural, which is why the category makes no sense and people appealing to it are universally considered idiots.

>>17786676
It's still gross, dude - in a way which all of those other things are not. Saying that "we're all made of stardust and everything is absurd" is not going to convince anyone otherwise; the fact that you have to bully normies into accepting your lifestyle and reduce everything else in the world to being meaningless so that your behaviour is no longer *as* disgusting says more than I ever could.

The whole point of the OP was that no amount of absurd rationalisation can compete with our intuitive understanding that two men smooching is gross - how much moreso is gay anal sex?

No, you're right. There is nothing wrong with platonic love between two men by the way. Homosexuals pervert that type of love and interpret it as sexual desire. The reason the "shipping" community exists is because they are a bunch of coom brains who cannot fathom that two men can be close friends without wanting to sodomize one another.

>>17786532
>it makes me feel icky = its bad
Good let's hope you're never in need of any kind of surgery, imagine how unpleasant that'd be for doctors to open up your body and fix your rotten organs. In fact surgical medicine should be outlawed cause it's not nice to look at.

>>17786735
It's gross only because you have been educated to think so, just as you have been educated to think eating dead animals is not gross. The grossness you feel is not cross cultural, so you can't use it as a criterion to judge that something is natural or not. You are, of course, entitled to feel that certain things are gross. I think cockroaches are gross, for instance. I wouldn't say that their existence is unnatural just because they gross me out, though.
Even though I can't stop finding cockroaches gross, I can think about cockroaches rationally and stop bitching about the existence of cockroaches or not try to convince people on the internet that cockroaches are unnatural.

Up to now, no argument has been offered as to why putting dick is people's anuses is unnatural. OP was appealing to his incapacity to feel that something is natural because he finds it gross. Now, if no amount of rationalization can convince you that you should not confuse your own sense of what is gross with normative ideas about how nature and the universe work, then maybe you are just stupid.

>>17786694
We are talking about behavior, not evolution.
Your random mutations will create some monkeys that have a will to live, and some that don't. Those that don't are going to die out. With only those monkeys left that want to survive, it is their nature to survive and thus do things that help their survival.

>>17786780
I was educated from childhood to think that "love is love", retard, yet somehow the natural reaction to seeing two men kissing prevails. I don't need to write an essay to justify this - it is simply gross.

>>17786532
Scruton's book on love. Pretty much everything by Plato as well, especially the Laws.

>"ugly of uglies, odious-to-the-gods, and unholiest of things."

>>17786779
There is a clear purpose in opening someone up to correct a medical issue - sodomy on the other hand only causes further damage. There is a massive difference between doing something gross because it is necessary (i.e. taking a shit or cleaning your toilet regularly) and taking pleasure in the disgusting part for its own sake; if you don't understand this then you're probably dumb enough to take horseshoe theory seriously.

>>17786831
Again, it's gross for you. Gross does not mean unnatural. You can think anything you want about x or y being gross, this doesn't mean you should not consider it natural or healthy. If you conflate the two, you are stupid.

>>17786920
It is gross to literally everyone who does not get off on it - in fact, I would say that those who get off on it are actually getting off on the fact that it is gross. As for it being unnatural and unhealthy, these things are demonstrable - unless in your quest to convince people that mashing shit with your penis isn't gross or unnatural, you would like to claim that health is subjective.

>>17786890
There is a clear purpose to sodomy as well: it feels good.
>taking pleasure in the disgusting part
That also happens. Have you never met someone who likes a food that you find absolutely disgusting? Or someone who likes food that you find disgusting and is objectively unhealthy? Why do you tolerate that and not people sticking penises in each other's butts?

>>17786934
>these things are demonstrable
Please proceed to demonstrate how anal sex is unnatural.
I wouldn't claim health is subjective, but surely getting illnesses is natural, since it happens to everyone. As is everything that happens, since it happens in nature, including the fact that you like mashing shit with your penis.

>gross to literally everyone who does not get off on it
This is just blatantly false. Large numbers of people, would not find anything gross with having anal sex with a woman.

>>17786945
So you're telling me that it has nothing to do with love? What is the justification for letting two people whose bond is based on taking pleasure in what you admit is a disgusting act marry or adopt children then?

>>17786979
>Large numbers of people would not find anything gross with having anal sex with a woman, therefore it's not gross for two men to fuck eachother in the arse

>Getting illnesses is natural, therefore we ought to cram poo down our peehole

>>17786985
I never said it is a disgusting act. I am saying that the category of disgusting/gross is subjective, and the category of natural makes no fucking sense.
People who do that don't find it disgusting, as you said yourself, and if they think it's a proper expression of love, so be it. The most likely way you will end up doing anal sex is because you are curious to try new things with a girlfriend who knows you. You most likely won't have anal sex with a total stranger. So yes, it can definitely be an expression of love for some people. That depends upon them.

If you want to take a further step and superimpose the category of the natural upon it to dictate how people should behave, then you are bound to be sucked in black hole of circular arguments and stupidity by trying to define what is "natural" - which you haven't done up to now precisely for that reason.

>>17786996
>Stop liking things I don't like!

I get the feeling you don't post here and you're just a tourist feeding on attention. If you unironically lack the self awareness to see that you're merely stating your personal feelings over and over with no logical procedence, you don't belong here.

>>17786590
This.
It doesn't matter. If you don't like it, don't do it.
Let's say I found asparagus disgusting, or I found football to be dull, do I have any right to tell you not to do/eat it?
What about the people who think 4chan is an evil place and should be banned? Should they send you to the camps to be exterminated since you went on 4chan?
It stems from a childish need to make others like you. To turn the world into your own personal safe-space.

>>17787077
>the category of natural makes no fucking sense.
People like you are so fucking retarded.

>>17787218
Not him, but if we're going with the naturalist argument, we are arguing against the most natural force of all: Change. Evolution.
Should the fish have thrown that retarded fish with legs into a pit and beaten him to death for being different? That has not been seen! That is unnatural!
It's fear of change and difference.

>>17786532
does nazitoss not know that straight people also do anal?

>>17787249
>Evolution
Yeah, being fucked in the ass and having aids is part of the next human evolution, same goes for trannies

>>17786532
No.

>>17787285
If they're defective in the eyes of evolution they'll die off. Relax.
They don't reproduce and the world is overpopulated as it is.

Imagine having a gripe with sexuality in 2021

>>17786679
oh fuck oh god oh no

>>17786532
What does it matter if you find it unnatural? I, for one, don't like the thought of either of those things either, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that because I don't understand how anyone would enjoy either of those things (that goes for anal with women as well), that those things must be wrong; maybe it's due to my personality, but my first instict when encountering something I don't understand/believe to be wrong isn't that it must universally be wrong/nobody in their right mind could think that way, I just assume I lack some information or am unable feel similarly and leave it at that.
Emotionally it's pretty gross and logically unecessary (from an evolutionary standpoint at least), but who gives a shit? They're not doing in front of me and nobody forces me to like those things, so who am I to force my limited thinking (not that I believe I'm wrong, just that I'm limited in my ability to comprehend some things and thus never go so far as to say I know anything for a fact) unto others?

>>17787315
They reproduce by molesting and grooming children.

>>17787346
Children can't give birth. Also, you're wrong.

>>17787346
Yeah, thought you might say that.
That's not true and it's fear-mongering bullshit. Pearl-clutching nonsense from frightened children who are terrified of difference so they want to stamp it out to feel safe.

>>17787281
i dont think hes had sex

Honestly all kind of sex is gross. Sweating people, exchanging bodily fluids, hair everywhere, smells normal or not, leaking reproductive organs, etc.

>>17787315
It's not genetic, it's a fetish. You get confused as a kid and associate your own gender with feelings meant for the opposite sex. The gay gene was just a PR offensive. To think that developing an esoteric fetish for fucking trees or cars is a result of irregular sexual associations in childhood but homosexuality just has to be genetic is laughable.

>>17786532
I think it should be called an illness and not be celebrated, but I guess if they want to poke around the stinker by themselves then go ahead, but please don't be my guest

People in this thread have different definitions of natural.
If natural means "anything that happens in our world", then everything is natural. People with six fingers are natural, gay sex is natural, murder is natural, even fucking your own mom is natural.
I think this definition is retarded and useless.
If natural refers to the human nature, as OP intended I believe, we are talking about a completly different thing and all your "animals do it too" and "should fish kill fish with legs" kind of arguments are utterly useless.

>>17787399
Sodomy has always been practiced to some degreee. It has only become popular again in recent days

>>17786532
>Pretty much the only way to get aids besides shooting up
>OMG, LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL! LET ADULTS DO WHAT THEY WANT BIGOT!
What a fucking repulsive society we inhabit.

>>17787391
We're horny apes. People want to plow. Men have been fucking men since the ancients.
Homosexual men also have doughy features. Gay guys often have a look about them that is deeper than the surface. Most likely excess estrogen. But even if it were a fetish, then who the fuck cares? Everyone has a fetish of one form or another, some like big tits, some like small, some like feet, some like latex.
Who cares?

Friendly reminder that it’s futile to argue with faggots about their disgusting habits. You’re not going to convince them that being a tranny or having anal poopoo sex with other men are repulsive pathologies in a single bread- you’re competing with a lifetime of conditioning and socialization. Save yourself the sanity and go read something.

>>17787421
Ironic.

>>17787407
True, but that doesn't mean anything. I also dont see how this is related to my post.
Murder has been around forever, yet it is (and should be) despised and punished.

>>17787399
this desu

>>17786590
watch this video for clarification of what people mean by natural
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucn2KzCDnOY

>>17787428
Being gay is not equivalent to murder. You are not forcing anything on anyone.
Natural, or not, it's irrelevant since it's benign.

>>17787414
>Who cares?
I care because it is a self destructive behavior that these sick people want to impress onto my children as healthy. Thereby making their lives worse. As well, no matter how much it is denied: gay men are pedophiles.

>>17787414
>Who cares?
It's the same question as always; is it of benefit to society and individual? The answer here is complicated. Some Greeks in their circumstance argued that homosexuality was advantageous in matters of military cohesion. To me it appears as if the gay lifestyle is a disaster for those particpating in it and a nucleus for degeneracy in general. Society always has to ask itself which behaviours ought to be supressed.

it's not just sex in the bum though.

sexuality is at its most basic just friction stimulating the penis. you can make straight or gay man's dick erect in the exact same ways. and people achieve SPLOOOGE by a lot more ways than sex in the vagina or sex in the butt

>>17787425
No, it really isn’t.
>>17787444
Based.

>>17787444
If they are destroying themselves they're doing your job for you and they should be left to it.
I agree that forcing beliefs on children is wrong, in the same way that I think forcing your beliefs on a gay guy is wrong. It's not your place.
>>17787447
You always have to factor in the counterpoint of your 'enemies' holding power and forcing their shit onto you. Do you like gay pride etc. being shoved down you throat? I don't, so instead of shoving shit down their throat in retaliation you stop shoving shit down people's throats?
Do unto others.

>>17787425
99.99% of all the humans who have ever lived are in resounding agreement with me. It’s only over the last two decades and social engineers have managed to sling the “normality” of men fucking each other in the ass and shitting on each other to the general population (and even then, only in the decadent West).

>>17787469
That's an appeal to the majority and it's also wrong. Greeks and Romans were notorious buttfuckers.

>>17787466
Doesn't have anything to do with enemies, it's about social order. The most advantageous configuration for individuals and society as a whole. It's rather on the nose as it concerns the history of gays, toleration outright killed them all.

>>17786532
It took me a while to realize the second panel isn't saying, "That's ok, we couldn't have sex anyway", it's saying the opposite