/lit/ - Literature

>>17730437
No, because we have strong familial and cultural ties to our churches and don’t just flip around/convert on a whim. You very clearly aren’t a serious Christian.

Did you read James 2:24?

>>17730446
that's not in the NT so OP probably hasn't read it

>>17730455
sorry I mistook it for another book my bad

>be Christian
>start reading the Qur'an for the first time
>become Muslim
Anyone else?

>>17730437
Maybe not a lutheran but the idea of the christian cave dwellers (in judgemental contrast to catholics) was reignited when I read some parts in red

>>17730488
follow the quran and hadith ?

>>17730582
Yes

>>17730594
how do you pull that off ?

>>17730492
The desert fathers were catholic and lived in caves and shit

Lutherans are the real catholics.

>>17730437
>read Romans
>become Calvinist

>>17730437
martin luther was deceived by a demon

>>17731289
>t. cannibal

>>17730444
>on a whim
your first time reading the new testament isn't exactly "on a whim" -- it's the first time this guy actually found out what Christianity really was, and then he decided lutherans do it better than catholics. that's the conclusion most people in America have come to.

I'd argue the only reason catholics still exist at all is familial and cultural ties

>>17731330
Luther believed in consubstantiation.

>>17730488
So you swapped one jewish cult for the other... why not convert to judaism?

>>17731351
The Reformation was a historical inevitability. Most people would rather trust their own judgement and intuition even when it's uninformed. The moment it became economically feasible to deliver to the people cheaper copies of the Bible in their national languages differing interpretations naturally sprung out

>>17731430
because that is an ethno religion. if I was ethnically jewish I might.

>>17730437
>read the sermon on the mount
>become joyous and untroubled

anyone else?

>>17731440
So you steal the jewish god for yourself? That's antisemitic

>>17731439
Modern Roman Catholicism is literally Christianity + paganism + semi-pelagianism. Protestantism (and specifically Calvinism) is the purest form of Christianity. Any saved non-Calvinist is a Calvinist on their knees.

>>17731430
Do you really think that Islam is less Jewish than Christianity? Lmao.

>>17731574
No, they're both about evenly jewish, just in different ways. Both are zio-puppets.

If you don't speak a romance language you'll never understand Catholicism

>>17731616
If you don't speak Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew you'll never understand christianity

>>17731628
christianity is gay, embrace Catholicism

>be lutheran
>start reading the OT and NT for the first time
>become baptist
Anyone else?

>>17730602
The story of Rustico and Alibech is a very funny satire of them.

>>17730488
i am always reminded of that verse pointing out that christians will continue having countless denominations arguing against each other until the day of judgment

>>17731671
If christianity is gay, and catholicism is half christian/gay and half pagan, why not go all the way and go back to the source? Paganism is catholicism without the jewishness.

>>17730437
>>17730492
>>17730640
>>17731330
>>17731091
>>17731351
>>17731560
>>17731678
Then how about a small challenge for you guys?
https://www.fisheaters.com/challenge.html

>t. disciple in John 6:66

>>17731775
Newman wasn't deep in history, he worshiped history. That is why he turned papist. Shame he didn't do it before he corrupted the Church of England.

>be born and raised catholic
>read bible
>still catholic

>be Catholic
>not Roman Catholic

>>17731727
You mean like Islam and its myriad opposed reform branches and schools of jurisprudence?

>>17731775
is the point of this exercise to show the necessity of a church organization to guide understanding of the texts? I wouldn't dispute that. Protestant churches have doctrine and dogma just like the Catholic church. They don't believe you can read the text and interpret it however you want. What they do believe is that there doesn't need to be an intermediary between God and man (or, rather, that there /does/ and it was Jesus Christ).

>be Catholic
>drop acid
>become gnostic

>>17731882
>Protestant churches have doctrine and dogma
Which of the 30,000 Protestant dogmas from the 30,000 Protestant Churches are you referring to?

>>17731912
That's a non-argument. Picking one of them is no different from picking Catholicism -- it's all just an arbitrary interpretation by an authority. I'd rather have an arbitrary interpretation of a constant set of texts (the canonical Bible) than an authority that, in addition to that, has invented 2000 years of additional dogma to create even more contradictions.
>but the Catholic church was first
not an argument

>>17731727
Judaism, Islam and Christianity all fell into that trap.

>>17731775
That's a lot to work through right now. I'm certain i have an answer to all of his challenges, but im not going to write an essay. Any specific question you want to know about?

>>17732012
That's because abrahamic monotheism is self-destructive

>>17730437
Why didn't you take orthodox pill yet ?

>>17731859
these schools of jurisprudence recognize each other's validity and only have differences of opinion on trivial matters
christians can't even agree on their most fundamental rituals, e.g. whether or not babies should be baptized, the nature of the lord's supper

>>17732141
Which type of christians do not baptize their babies ?

>>17730488
i read the Quran once and it sounded like it was written by a 5 year old.

>>17732259
For real, though. It's written like a schizophrenic's diary

>>17731740
Not him but I'll give my take on the question. Let's humour the idea that Catholic Christianity is half-pagan. I don't really care. It's pretty obvious that Christianity comes from an Aristotelian-Platonic Judaism. It does not matter to me that Christianity came from Judaism. Why should it? Why would it? To me, it makes it interesting I like the idea of good works, virtue ethics, sin, guilt and redemption. IMO Christian Aesthetics surpassed those of paganism. I don't see our pagan past as demonized but celebrated. Paganism still exist in literature like the eddas. It exist in poetry, in art, in language. It exist in philosophy both ancient and modern.

For argument's sake let's say Jesus is some crypto-manifestation of Dionysus, God the Father is the Indo-European sky father and Mother Mary is a great Goddess. If this is true we should accept that the phenomenological nature of divinity changed for some reason. I'm not upset about this because it served us just as well as Paganism did for the last 2000 years. I'm not gonna go sacrifice a goat to hermes. I don't have the means to do so even if I wanted to. But I can go to Church and get the sacrament. The sacrament which, according to theology, does the same thing the animal sacrifices did.

The Levitical priesthood was the same as other priesthoods. Even the pagans acknowledged classical Judaism was mostly the same as paganism. The only difference was that of jews as the "chosen" people, which Christianity abandoned, and the idea of monotheism that came from Iranian Zoaranstism. The Jews had their priest with priestly dignity and we had/have ours. The Catholic Church is filled with European priest. Irish priest, Polish Priest, Italian Priest, German Priest. These priest have the same dignity as our older pagan priest did. They were never historically asked to be subservient to Jews. The RCC wasn't "anti-Semitic" but still posited itself as the new Israel and portrayed Jews religiously as a forsaken other. I don't like the fact that the Christian clergy is presently cucked but that's part of the broader metaphysical decline of the West, it's not exclusively from Christian religion .
You can make a case like Nietzsche and Evola did, that Christianity's glorifying of meekness and vagueness when it came to it's inner teachings ultimately makes our decline harder. Perhaps that's true. Meekness and an eclectic vaguness of it's inner doctrine is Christianity's own peculiarly. Judaism is more ruthless towards the meek and has doctrinaire esoterism in the form of Kabbalah.

Maybe the Renaissance Catholic Church was right. Maybe Christianity should just become paganism. It seems like that's what was gearing up to happen, with all the literal pagan god statues commissioned throughout Italy, the adaptation of pagan style Christian art and hermeticism practiced within the papacy herself. It's a weird historical event that it didn't transform. One day it might. Who knows?

Catholic aesthetics >>>>>>>

yes, but the other way around

>>17732330
I'll pick out a few statements, I generally disagree on the details but I appreciate the effort post.
> It does not matter to me that Christianity came from Judaism. Why should it? Why would it? To me, it makes it interesting I like the idea of good works, virtue ethics, sin, guilt and redemption. IMO Christian Aesthetics surpassed those of paganism.
Because judaism is good for jews and we (assuming you're of Euro descent) aren't jews. It's that simple. I'm staunchly against universalism. Apart from the arrogance of stealing an ethnic god and claiming him to be for everyone.
> I don't see our pagan past as demonized but celebrated. Paganism still exist in literature like the eddas. It exist in poetry, in art, in language. It exist in philosophy both ancient and modern.
I can't disagree more. A part of it still lives on I guess, but despite Christianity, not because of it.
>we should accept that the phenomenological nature of divinity changed for some reason. I'm not upset about this because it served us just as well as Paganism did for the last 2000 years.
No it didn't, unless you view the abandonment of cyclical time for linear time as a good thing. Christianity carries within itself the seeds of its own destruction.
>But I can go to Church and get the sacrament. The sacrament which, according to theology, does the same thing the animal sacrifices did.
But it doesn't, that's the issue. The sacrament is hollow, empty. You appease the tribal god of another tribe, what do you expect to get in return?
>Even the pagans acknowledged classical Judaism was mostly the same as paganism.
No they didn't. If you refer to Julian, he saw judaism as a genuine tradition (which it is) but not similar to paganism, only in its opposition to universalism of the christian variety.
>These priest have the same dignity as our older pagan priest did.
False, we had a priestly caste just like the jews, but christianity takes priests from the other castes and forces them to be celibate. Completely inversed.
>They were never historically asked to be subservient to Jews.
But they were because they started venerating jews in place of their own ancestors, and the jewish god in place of their own gods. Even if they did mental gymnastics to convince themselves otherwise.
>Judaism has doctrinaire esoterism in the form of Kabbalah.
Kabbalah is a relatively modern invention and different from ancient traditional judaism.
>Maybe the Renaissance Catholic Church was right. Maybe Christianity should just become paganism. It seems like that's what was gearing up to happen, with all the literal pagan god statues commissioned throughout Italy, the adaptation of pagan style Christian art and hermeticism practiced within the papacy herself. It's a weird historical event that it didn't transform. One day it might. Who knows?
We can only hope. Those you mentioned were subverted by masonic (jewish) agents though, just like the catholic church and protestantism.