/lit/ - Literature

>>17692119
The Abolition of Work by Bob Black
The Right to be Lazy by Paul Lafargue

>>17692119
Fuck off leech

>>17692119
screw you screw you screw you
I want a full-time job badly

>>17692161
i don't want to leech, i want to provide my own means to survive. but the fact that i am disallowed from doing this means that it is impossible for me to leech. anything i take is justified, because there was never an alternative. i am owed it.

>>17692119
My Year of Rest and Relaxation. Basically this bitch just sleeps for a year and does drugs, and it doesn't ruin her life. Actually makes it better in a lot of ways.

>>17692119
Check the sticky you lazy fuck. There's lists, follow the links.

>>17692252
point me to the exact part of the wiki that answers my question. i looked, i did not find it, which means either you didn't read it either, or it's not there

>>17692273
You're retarded.

>>17692119
>Debt: The First 5000 Years
>Bullshit Jobs
>The Conquest of Bread

Work is for machines. What is so hard to understand about this?

>>17692301
>Wellsian subhuman thinks its opinion matters

>>17692316
Do you feel depressed and useless if we compare you to a machine?
Is the machine to strong, to fast and to masculine?
Get ova it.

Aristotle

>>17692119
I wonder in the future how many novels will follow this almost post modern archetype of a man: the neet, the shut-in, the urban recluse. I wonder how many of those works would reference this place. Characters like that have long existed, but in the past it was harder to completely abstain from society and nothing to replace it—Raskolnikov would've broswed 4chan

>>17692853
why don't you write about it?

>>17692119
Find a job, you parasite.

>>17692876
Everyone is a parasite shut up fag

>>17692876
no

>>17692870
Maybe. I think it would resonate with a lot of people, and I think there's a lot to say and a lot that lends itself to be said in such a narrative. My point is I'm not the only one who thinks that. There are probably attempts or budding attempts already out there, eventually a pieces of great literature on the matter will emerge

>>17692853
Tao Lin did this sort of. EEEE EEE EEEEE and Shiplifiting are similar in concept I think. He definitely was a NEET for a while. He lived off of money he got from shoplifting batteries and then selling them. He also shoplifted a lot of what he ate so that made living cheaper

>>17692239
but the main character in that book has inherited money and doesn’t have to worry about work/income, and her goal is merely to sleep; neets usually have specific activities/hobbies they’d rather spend time on than working

>>17692119
pro-LEECH*

>>17692119
Antonio Negri

The Accursed Share

>>17692119
Fuck off leech

>>17692989
Neet or leech still you seethe and bitch

>>17692299
>Debt: The First 5000 Years - David Graeber
>Graeber's mother, Ruth Rubinstein
>Graeber's father Kenneth, who was affiliated with the Youth Communist League in college
Ah yes, no doubt Dave will get to the bottom of this finance shenanigans. ;^)

lots of S.W.E.A.T.y wageslaves itt

>>17692976
Yes, alas, for most of us, the only neet life we will ever know is retirement.

>>17692926
>Tao Lin
is it worth to read his works?

>>17692876
>>17692989
>>17693012
work is slavery, i am not a leech for not wanting to participate in it. if i could provide my own means to survive, i would

>>17692119
This one's really good

>>17692119
It's so nice to not have to work. Or rather to work on the things you want at a pace you can change anytime

>>17693951
>Or rather to work on the things you want at a pace you can change anytime
this is what i really want. it's not that i don't want to work, it's that i don't want to work on shit i don't care about because i'm coerced into doing it. that is identical to slavery

>>17692173
Based

>>17692119
i was a neet for 2 years, then started a business with the pure intention of earning money as lazily as possible. i put barely any effort into the business, earn just as much as i need to survive, and spend the rest of my time specifically doing nothing at all

>>17692119
Early Retirement Extreme and the Mister Money Moustache blog offer non-leechy ways to achieving lifelong NEETdom.
>>17695908
Based
What kind of business is it?

>>17695968
>What kind of business is it?
just assembling and selling computers, i sell about 5 a month and that covers me for everything i need

>>17696012
pretty cool anon, i'd love a gig like that - who are your clients? are they businesses or random people or what? do you advertise?

>>17692119
>Are there any books about wage slavery
No

>>17692301
it's not the work itself, it's who you do it for. if it's yourself, that makes sense, if it's for a cool guy, that also makes sense, if it's for your jewish boss to buy another yacht, yikes maybe wanna think that one through

>>17699432
this is true but ultimately even your buddy’s small business is still part of the larger economy controlled by the actual elite which enslaves us all
but yeah small business provide a bit of insulation from that, definitely a fan of that. but still some industries such as mining or science or something still require massive amounts of funding which necessitates large soulless corporations or governments so if you want to work those professions youre stuck with that

>>17692119
No Longer Human by Osamu Dazai

>>17693451
Yes.
>>17693128
>its da jooz!
Don’t you realize he is an expert on debt, it is in his blood? Fucking retard. He has the credentials read the book first.

>>17692173
Keyed

What would you do if you didn't have to work, /lit/?

>>17700272
Read more books.
Tend to my garden.
Play more music.
Hang out with my grandma more before she dies.

>>17700272
whatever it was, it would be because i wanted to do it, and not someone or something else

>>17700272
read books
go camping more
grow asparagus in a garden (it's my favorite vegetable)
spend more time building simple furniture to donate.

>>17700272
lounge around bullshitting with the lads and hopefully gf drinking and feasting like a medieval aristocrat
id probably also read some philosophy and maybe even do some sort of philanthropy but idk id probably just be a hedonist lol

>>17692119
/biz/: Collected Threads

>>17692119
Might is right

>>17692119
Anti-civ is anti-work. You already read uncle ted so why not just continue? Read Desert. Read Toward the Destruction of schooling and realise education is just a scam to tame people and put them down.
Once you get a taste you'll find stuff by yourself.

I NEETed for 2 years in between my sophomore and junior years of college. I actually regret the latter 2 years of college more than I regret NEETing.

>>17701972
that's epic and i am literally going to do that (i'm sophomore now, studying law), although to be fair i intend to take a philosophy course in the gap year

>>17701972
I've fucked up a lot in life but never getting a job is one of the few things I got right, I think.

Any other NEET artists here? I started drawing 6 years ago and can’t magine my life without it now

>>17702165
can't draw a straight line but i started playing violin 6 years ago and i'm pretty good now. relevant because i did this while being broke and refusing to get a job

>I just want to be a comfortable hedonist without ever working, actually it's my human right!
absolutely degenerate & bourgeoisie

>>17702350
retard

>>17702350
in the past, people could provide their own means to survive. now, people need to provide labor to others in order to survive. this is clearly slavery, the fact that you get to choose your master does not change this

>>17702513
in the past I could find a 16 year old virgin to marry by showing her father I'm a decent fellow with my own sheep and goats.

> now, people need to provide labor to others in order to survive.
so? work is just a means to an end.
poverty is the default setting, prosperity, wealth and comfort are abnormal.

> people could provide their own means to survive. now, people need to provide labor to others in order to survive.
what difference does this make?

>>17702350
>I just want to be a comfortable hedonist without ever working, actually it's my human right!
Yes.

>>17692173
>i want to provide my own means to survive
What by playing video games and jacking off to hentai all day? You're just another useless welfare nigger

>>17702577
>so?
Wageslavery is dehumanizing and spirit breaking. Self-employment is ok though.

>>17702513
That's not even the issue with his post it's the fact that he thinks people are hedonist by nature and thus need work to 'save' them from it. He hasn't gotten the basic situationist premise that all actions are inherently justified. People just naturally wish to perform useful social functions otherwise society wouldn't have formed in the first place. People who disagree just don't get it, they can't imagine a world where all infrastructure isn't trusted to a few corrupt industries, where infrastructure as a whole is a promethean gift from the gods of capitalism, as if us peasants weren't capable of producing it ourselves were it not constantly gatekeeped by a class of elites lol.

>>17702577
define poverty

>>17692876
Life itself is a parasite on this planet.

>>17702595
>Wageslavery is dehumanizing and spirit breaking.
being a materialist atheist is more dehumanizing, being enslaved to sin is true slavery, not working for a ''boss'' in 2021 as opposed to being a hunter gatherer 10,000 years ago

I have been in and out of several wage slave jobs in the past 5 years and the few months of neetdom in between them makes it worth it, I have so much more time. I think I’d rather go to jail than go back to another factory, at least there I don’t have to pay for my cell or meals.

>>17702670
I’m not an atheist. I’m not against work. I’m against the exploitative nature of wageslavery.

>>17702670
you still aren't grasping the exploitation of the working class you retard. maybe if you'd read anything on the subject you'd know that humanity doesn't need to regress back to the age of bludgeoning wooly mammoths to death for food to reclaim its productive power, which really isn't even a valid example because economic theories of labor only need to deal with humanity after the advent of farming.
Also how is being a materialist atheist dehumanizing? In what way? This sentence doesn't even make sense. It dehumanizes the atheist or humanity as a whole? Literally or just metaphorically? How would I be dehumanized by having a certain belief? This is the problem with your type bro, you say all this opinionated shit that doesn't hold up under a concrete analysis. You think being enslaved to sin is true slavery when 'sin' according to you just consists of normal human habits like masturbation, certain emotions, certain desires etc, but you don't consider the shakling of natural desires to be slavish in the least? Not even when some of these are required for healthy human development? Do you disagree with the statement “all these impulses are by nature good, we have nothing to avoid but their misuse and their excesses” ? if so then why?

>>17702810
>Also how is being a materialist atheist dehumanizing? In what way? This sentence doesn't even make sense.

>>17700272
If I had the money, I'd travel a hell of a lot more. Learn an instrument, volunteer some of my time, build something with my hands. Reading goes without saying but I'm happy with how much I currently read.

>>17702056
If you’re just going to get the degree anyway, I’m not sure I’d recommend copying what I did. NEET or get the degree, don’t waste your time with both. My standard advice to people is don’t get a degree but if you’re going to get one, get it as quickly and cheaply as possible.

>>17702066
I’m American so I’m not sure I ever have a choice. After graduating, I couldn’t get a job for about 6 months even though I tried because my mom made me feel so guilty about taking 6 years to graduate and still not having a job. I ended up getting one and it was so bad I only lasted about 10 months, spent about 2 months unemployed again, then took another job working on pipelines which I quit in 2 weeks because I got treated like shit. A month after that, I got a job working at my Uni. I’d figured I’d just go back for a grad degree so I took it. I ended up dropping out of the grad degree and I’ve spent the last 2.5 years working for my university, which is unironically the worst job I’ve ever head. Working here is an existential nightmare and I’m desperate to get fired but I can’t seem to bring myself to fuck up enough to get fired. I want to quit but I don’t really have any fall back plan besides going to live with my parents again at 28. I would work a job honestly. It’s just that these professional bureaucrat office jobs are beyond intolerable.

>>17702350
It would be bourgeoisie if they wanted some professional careerist striver job. NEETs are aware that the bug society hates them and they do it anyway so they’re not bourgeois.

>>17702878
see bro i know your intent here is to be condescending because you perceive me as a one-dimensional atheist whose mind isn't attuned to the metaphysical like yours must be but you're actually just comically mistaken on this part because i understand what you mean on an intuitive level, on a spiritual level even, but i ask for clarification anyway, because i believe in fruitful argumentation which requires a common terminology, but you don't believe in that, you believe in the constant undermining of terminology through the infusing of ambiguous language, such that me asking for a clarification prompts you to post npc meme pic from your npc meme pic folder. go ahead try to prove me wrong or even argue convincingly against anything i've said so far lol, cmon try

>>17702878
the work advocate everyone

>>17692119
Capital

>>17695968
>investing
>real estate flipping
>non-leechy
Sounds like somebody got themselves a hefty dose of that good old ideology.

i prefer working, but not much. trying to keep a downsized life by being a miser. If you guys lived in a utopia, would you still work?
I would like to teach children skateboarding. I'd prefer humans still did work like teaching rather then A.I

>>17702350
Why not? It's more or less entirely possible.

life is about working for what you get. the idleness of being a neet always leads me to hedonism and debauchery. that sort of life style is so miserable.

>>17703065
of course i'd work in a society that lets me choose what to do. i sit here arguing on 4chan and reading books just trying to refine myself all day and this combined with my daily music practice and computer science self-study is like a full time job, ontop of having bad insomnia and depression stemming from an abusive childhood, i'm already cracking under the pressure. so it bothers me when people see me not working and call me lazy when all they do is waste time both on and off the clock

>>17695968
>Early Retirement Extreme and the Mister Money Moustache blog offer non-leechy ways to achieving lifelong NEETdom.
You’re wrong and the really unfortunate thing about these is it’s usually too late before you realize you’re being sold another product.

>>17703134
The thing about NEETing is there’s nothing wrong with NEETing in itself. In fact, I think you should NEET IF you either use it to retreat fully into imagination or if transmute into a work becomes play scenario. If you just NEET to waste your days avoiding work then yes, it’s a waste. Although, I’m not sure we can consider it inherently bad given the modern state of work. It has to be taken in relative to the alternative, which not only undesirable but usually totally ignoble.

>>17703190
Sorry you speak so obtusely I have no idea what you're saying. If you're implying that modern work is difficult or undesirable, you have no idea about how bad jobs were in the past.

>>17703144
we kind of do live in a society that lets you choose what to do though, don't we anon?

>>17703271
no lol education costs thousands of dollars so if you don't have mommy and daddy to pay for everything for you then you're fucked, moreso if you don't have a stable home environment. only the privileged bourgeois gets to 'choose' a career path. the rest of us just have to suffer

>>17703205
There’s really nothing obtuse about what I just said. I said NEETing is not something that is inherently bad just like work isn’t something that’s inherently good. Given how modern work can often entail working a dehumanizing, impersonal, systematic, immoral, and ignoble job then NEETing would obviously be the preferable alternative. People try to pretend like work is or isn’t a moral good in itself or something and it’s just not.

>>17703205
>If you're implying that modern work is difficult or undesirable, you have no idea about how bad jobs were in the past.
What makes modern jobs better than jobs of the past?

>>17703344
you can take on debt, or you can just be really good at the job you don't need the certificate. I can't stand such a defeatist victim mentality. yuck.
>>17703345
giving back to your community is inherently a good act. If you think modern work is that bad you should go look at how workers were treated in the past. All you have to do is some easy labor and the hard lifting is done by machines.

>>17703205
bruh i understood him perfectly you must be actually dumb beyond belief

Work is a spook.
Civilization is bad. Progress is bad.
Do not spend your time getting guilted into working for a non existent better future that will never come.
The world is doomed and dead. Let it go. Why not live more freely away from these horrible shackles that lead us nowhere?

>>17703368
>giving back to your community is inherently a good act.
Working a job doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily “giving back to your community”, which is already kind of a vague nothing.

> All you have to do is some easy labor and the hard lifting is done by machines.
Why is modern work better than work of the past? Because it’s easier and safer?

>>17703362
so much anon.

>>17703393
>Working a job doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily “giving back to your community”, which is already kind of a vague nothing.
Every single job I've ever had has provided some utility to the community. Sure some jobs exploit people, but most do not.
>Why is modern work better than work of the past? Because it’s easier and safer?
Yes.

>>17703411
>Every single job I've ever had has provided some utility to the community.
Well you’re lucky then but chances are they still weren’t objective goods in themselves.
>Yes.
NEETing is the easiest and safest so by your own thinking, NEETing should be preferable.

>>17703368
being aware of the unfair conditions forced upon me isn't being defeatist it's just me telling the truth. trust me, i am good at what i do, i've been scarily good at it since i was like 14 because i started at 6. that doesn't mean anything though because all my dreams of finding success doing that thing crumbled because i've always been dirt fucking poor and couldn't do jack shit about it. i know you probably think you have some kind of answer to the question of poverty in your head but trust me sometimes you just get shit on, like the people who get bombed out of nowhere and their limbs scattered across the ground like a crash test dummy, that's what it's like actually being poor, i mean actually poor not whatever lower middle class bullshit.
honestly i'm tired of you people who defend our society, cast the blame on me and call me defeatist even though i tried harder to overcome my problems than you probably ever will. and not just me but everyone like me.

>If you think modern work is that bad you should go look at how workers were treated in the past. All you have to do is some easy labor and the hard lifting is done by machines.
modern labor power is a direct continuation of the labor power of the past you should know this retard. god i fucking hate you people who opine on shit without any foundational knowledge like bro what? imagine talking about how bad labor conditions were in the early 20th century and not thinking you're still talking about the same industry as today. you think factories are extinct or something? my childhood friend got pulled into a machine in an industrial accident and died a slow, painful death a few years back and he was only 17 years old at the time. even the high tech warehouses like amazon are mind numbingly harsh on the workers.

>>17703445
I don't think it's preferable. I think that life is about working for what you get. When I was a neet my life was awful, I was hedonistic and debauched. I deteriorated physically. I now have a chronic pain problem from sitting around on the computer doing nothing instead of actually doing things like nature intended. I was totally socially isolated. Now that I'm working I have progressed in all the areas I wanted to during NEETdom much more. I have read more books, improved at skateboarding, improved my social skills and started to make friends and connections. I have put on weight and muscle. I have more self worth.
Sure there are small risks at my job, but it's nothing compared to the absolute hell I found myself in when I didn't have a job. ( I worked once a week at a sports stadium and I felt better after my shift then every other day of the week)

>>17703495
I can't begin to unpack this without hurting your feelings more anon. All I can say is I fundamentally disagree.

>>17703396
dude imagine how HORRIBLE it’d be to be a baker!!! the agony of being a cobbler...

>>17703546
coal miner? sailor?

>>17703522
you disagree because you don't understand the wider economic conditions outside of your insular little escapades with middle class society nor any theoretical grasp of that society, what its values are, how it derives that value etc. so far your only argument has been completely subjective, just you projecting some imaginary moral standard: "i think working is good because then it's like you deserve things lol." you don't have anything else to say really, it's more about you being brainwashed into feeling dirty about the concept of not working and getting all depressed during your neet phase.

>>17703576
I said life is about working for what you get. Or perhaps phrased another way, it is natural for a man to work.

>>17703498
>I think that life is about working for what you get.
I understand and that sounds like a noble idea but really, it’s kind of a nothing and you haven’t really substantiated it at all. What is “what you get?” Are we talking about things? Like a car or something? Are we talking about relationships? What are we talking about here? I think you’re conflating work with a job, or maybe I’m conflating the two. I don’t know. Either way, I think I’m seeing a distinction where you’re not. The way I see it even an ascetic has to “work” for spiritual enlightenment. That’s not the same was what we mean when we talk about “work” like going to work. I’m saying that the latter sort of work is not noble in itself. It’s not implicitly noble that you work a job and as a result buy a car. It’s not even inherently noble if you work a job that you see as good, like being a doctor or something. There’s many different viewpoints you could take on it, ethically, morally and what I mean to say is that given the context of modern work generally, specifically speaking in generalities here, often times modern work is reduced to something almost torturous, ignoble, enslaving, harmful. I think it’s the case more often than not actually and so in that regard the alternative, NEETing, is actually better. You know? There’s nothing inherently better about working in that sense. Personally, I think people who don’t have access to more dignified methods of work, should NEET if they can.

>>17703561
Again, why are they implicitly better today? The only thing you could say is that they’re easier or safer, which isn’t an objective good in itself and if you’re the guy making the argument about “working for what you have” it actually seems to totally contradict your point.

>>17692119
marx's 1844 manuscripts

>>17703637
what are you working on then anon? Could you show us your progress?

>>17703688
I’m not a NEET. I actually work although I wish I could be a NEET. This is me >>17702984 I’m just offering my genuine opinion here. As for what I work on, I write and I have some personal art projects I’d like to invest more time into were I a NEET. I don’t want to share them here though.

>>17703646
They're aided by technology, there are many different laws put in place to keep employees safe. You can access fast transportation to lower travel times. They pay better. You can more easily access jobs that are in areas you enjoy. Many jobs have very great benefits and privileges such as being a teacher. This is just off the top of my head

>>17703703
>wahhhh i have to work in an air conditioned office my life is so hardddd!!!!

>>17703601
if by work you mean apply himself to the creation of a useful form then yes man is naturally endowed with a desire and willingness to work just like every other animal on earth. but maybe just maybe there's a difference between the kind of work that comes naturally and the work that's forced on us unnaturally and juuust maybe that difference might have something to do with the end result (the 'product') of the work not belonging to the worker lol wouldn't that be funny it's almost like people talked about this before so i really wonder who's opinion i should value more the pioneers of revolution and free thought or the emaciated 4chan loser who for reasons he can't quite articulate thinks it's good to work in the 21st century.

>>17702577
>in the past I could find a 16 year old virgin to marry by showing her father I'm a decent fellow with my own sheep and goats.
is this supposed to be a refutation?
>so? work is just a means to an end.
when that means is controlled by other humans, instead of by yourself, and you have no recourse or way to opt out, you are enslaved. fundamentally, this is coercion, there's no way around it

>>17703750
Yes.

>>17703750
i just can't understand what level of illiteracy you need to be on to think the marxist disavowal of labor is about the actual difficulty of the work being done and not the manipulation of the means of production. are you by any chance female?

>>17703750
>it's okay for people to force you to do work as long as there's air conditioning and no heavy lifting
this is essentially like showing up at somebody's rape trial and saying "all you had to do was lie there, what's so bad about that?"

>>17703773
>>17703794
it's funny because I'm working class and the type of person who could be converted so your ideology, but the way you conduct yourself makes me want to go the complete other way. If you actually want to change peoples minds you're going to have to use a different tact.

>>17700272
Honestly? Drugs and alcohol probably. Play video games all day. I am a slave at heart. I bitch about work all the time but deep down I crave the structure it provides.

>>17703777
>when that means is controlled by other humans, instead of by yourself, and you have no recourse or way to opt out, you are enslaved. fundamentally, this is coercion, there's no way around it
anyone who engages in trade or labor or even learning a skill is ''enslaved'' by various constraints and people and there has never been a time when this wasn't the case

>>17703827
youre just stupid bro the revolution doesnt need you, like youre actually just kinda fuckin dumb it's like someone just walked off the street into this thread with no idea what economics even is and starts saying 'actually i like work' on a board where people are expected to know at least a little about it. i mean you strike me as someone who just doesn't care because you're already so repressed that getting some retarded job doesn't deprive you of anything since you're so fucking dull and stupid in the first place. if you actually had the mental subtlety to appreciate life's blessings you wouldn't enjoy compulsory labor like that, it's just weird lol, you're fucking weird.

>>17703827
Marxism is not an ideology and it doesn't matter what you think.

>>17703899
I sincerely hope you're trolling mate. Otherwise, I hope things get better for you.

>>17703827
I have asked in the marx threads a few times in the past who posting there was an actual member of a labor union. Obviously nobody there was. I actually work construction labor and am I a member of our trade's labor union, i can assure you that the only people ideologically committed to marxist derived ideas are not actual laborers, at least not here. Our halls are mostly run by bureaucrat types and our IO is corrupt as fuck basically a dictatorship. Marxists aren't laborers. Which is a shame, Marx had some decent analysis and he's not completely worthless.

>>17703917
not everyone who calls you a fucking retard is trolling bro you're actually one

>>17703918
Most people aren't members of unions anymore because outsourcing has significantly damaged their ability to get anything done. Strike for higher wages? Fine, they'll just outsource it.

>>17703718
All of that is better if you’re a NEET and the idea undermines the premise of having “work for what you have”. Your position is illogical.

>>17703918
yea it sucks that part of the failure of unions is that they're so disconnected from the basis for their own existence that they become just bullshit fuck nothing and it's no surprise because a larger movement needed to take place and having little clubs at the workplace doesn't quite cut it

>>17703750
Good point anon. The animals should be grateful for their zookeepers.

>>17703918
>implying labor unions are not complicit to capital

>>17703718
That is a myth. Even medieval peasant had much safer work and worked far less than any modern boilermaker. There are enough automobile deaths simply traveling to and from work to make any medieval person shudder in disgust. If you mean to imply that technology has allowed more people to escape work and instead be an optimizing bureaucrat behind a computer, which no less suffers because of their mental and social enslavement then sure you have a point. That has, in fact, happened.

I've never felt boredome outside of work

>>17703918
>Marx had some decent analysis and he's not completely worthless.
point them out and elaborate on them.
Go on.

>>17703688
ad hominem attempt fuck off

>>17703794
I’m not even a Marxist (I’m the person he’s responding to).

>>17703827
I’m not a Marxist. I’m not trying to convert you to any revolution. I’m simply commenting on things as I see them, namely, that work isn’t an inherent good in itself and to not work isn’t an inherent bad in itself. It’s relative and in a world where to work is usually degraded, to not work is usually preferable.

>>17692161
>t.phone app coder

>>17692976
activities/hobbies like masturbating to japanese cartoons, maybe

>>17703994
Yeah almost all of our locals have voluntarily given up their right to strike in their agreements. They have third party arbitration now if negotiations fail. I think Denver's local still has the option to strike but obviously they never do. It is hard to outsource construction though, the supply of skilled labor in quantities necessary for large jobs like Microsoft, Amazon, and Intel data centers or other big bullshit like that is still fairly limited. And you can't outsource the construction itself. You gotta build the building on site after all.

>>17704076
That's exactly what I said, our leadership is corrupt as fuck and bows to capital. Read next time you little faggot.

>>17704232
Letting rich satanist child rapists hold all the power is generally disadvantageous to me and it is reasonable to try and take some power back, and organizing and cooperation among the workers is the only chance we have. Sadly capital has won and has figured out how to assimilate nearly everything into itself.

>>17692161
>you aren't living off mr goldsteins whims like me that makes you a parasite

>>17704037
In some regards I think its the great success that ruined unions. We are pretty spoiled now. Good pay, decent conditions. Easy to let contractors take shit back inch by inch because we have booze, good food, distractions. The linemen are still pretty strong though, and I wager its because they are not as comfortable as us wiremen. They have to travel all the time, they have a real brotherhood whereas narrowbacks can afford to get lazy and decadent. That's just my opinion though. Henry Miller and his fellow linemen had real danger in their lives and shit conditions, they were motivated every day to get stronger bargaining positions. Not so much today. Doesn't help that the leadership is all decadent bougie fags and jews now who are more worried about their pay checks and keeping their power than keeping good conditions for labor. Buncha cunts.

>>17692119
German Ideology: Saint-Max
Left-wing Communism: An infantile disorder

>>17692119
Work is fucking gay. Or rather drudgery is. A culture that worships it is a sick one doomed to a misery that money and consumerism can't cure. Being a NEET should be the default position for humanity but people who want more can strive for more.

>>17705683
Yeah agreed.
If we didn't have to over produce to make profit, and instead produce commodities for whatever needs people have I bet the average workday could become 4 hours or something, but instead it's about constant output to satisfy some kind of market. Like farming, most of the produce is exported to other countries, instead of just producing what the populace needs and then saying that's enough.

Funny how capitalists love to go on and on about how great capitalism is because it's based on inherent human selfishness and greed and yet when you want to do the most selfish and greedy thing there is - not work - they instantly call you a piece of shit. The driving force behind capitalism is self interest but when I want to act on my own self interest by not working and spending my time how I like they lose their minds.
Hope the capitalists and the wageslave S.W.E.A.T pledge keks keep seething.

>>17705932
Lmao. I never considered that. It’s true but I’m not sure they say it’s great because of greed or whatever. Usually they make up some phony notion about “everyone gets what they want” or something.

>>17705683
>Being a NEET should be the default position
How do I default to NEETing if I’m American? My parents would never support me.

>>17705948
While a lot of them might not directly say that capitalism is great because of greed, it is definitely implied when they say that capitalism is the only system that works because it doesn't go against the human nature of greed and selfishness. Of course then they turn around and spout bullshit about how good hard work is for you and how we should all contribute to society. It is in my, and basically 99.99% of the people on this planet best interest not to work. We could all just stick our hands in our pockets and wageslavery would be eradicated.
>some phony notion about “everyone gets what they want”
I've seen this a lot. Funny thing is that I would wager that what the vast majority of wageslaves want is to not work again. It's funny and sad how much people have been conditioned to defend their own wageslavery, just look at some of the replies in this thread.

>>17705932
Lmao based.

>>17692155
>The Right to be Lazy by Paul Lafargue
nice.

>>17692119
oh I don't know, all of fucking Marx? Moron.

>>17706169
I just think it’s funny when they’ll say things like “look how good capitalism, technology, etc is” and point to the fact the modern office job is usually safer than that of a 19th century coal miner, not at all stopping to realize that not only is that not a proper comparison but the reason the 19th century coal miner’s job was brutal was precisely because of industrial capitalists and had he been born a few hundred years prior, he would be working on a farm.

>>17707136

>>17705932
Capitalism can only work when people follow the rules, respect property rights and find virtue in fair exchange. As soon as you find a workaround, like stealing or petitioning the govt to do so on your behalf, you're no longer partaking in capitalism so to speak. Personal interest is to capitalism what gas is to an engine, and you're here huffing gas while you walk, wondering why everyone's giving you weird looks.

>>17707282
>you're no longer partaking in capitalism so to speak.
That's not real capitalism, of course. Sorry but real capitalism doesn't exist anywhere and as soon as you invent the dissolution of the use of violent force, get back to us, because as it stands moneyed interested will always use violent force directly or laundered a few times through bureaucracy and spooks like "stately authority". they'd be retarded not to, they wouldn't accumulate wealth without it. Property rights don't even exist without violent force.

I used to work in a warehouse. the job itself? not bad honestly, enjoyable most days because most of the coworkers were cool people I didn't mind spending the day with, and working the industrial vehicles was actually fun. my problem is that honest work doesn't pay what it should, compared to what money parasites (investors, bankers, etc) can get while offering no value to society. make things a little fairer, and most people probably wouldn't mind working, because they would have peace of mind knowing they're making enough to secure a future. no such thing exists for much of the younger generations, and that's only touching on society's material concerns.

>>17692119
Why advocate for change that'll make it harder for you to mooch off? If you want to be a NEET, wouldn't it make more sense to lay low?

>>17707506
>Sorry but real capitalism doesn't exist anywhere
Capitalism is not a system, it's what you call what happens when people possess and exchange capital unregulated by any system. When I sell my lawn mower on craigslist for cash, I've successfully done a capitalism or whatever. It exists everywhere it isn't intentionally being meddled with.

>as it stands moneyed interested will always use violent force directly
>Property rights don't even exist without violent force
Anarcho-capitalist thinkers have theorized means of working with the existence of violent force, basically large companies provide NAP violation insurance where instead of having tax dollars funding police and courts you have a monthly subscription to a PMC to utilize their ability to generate force on your behalf. The problem is that state governments have basically been grandfathered in and these kinds of ideas have no chance of getting off the ground unless starting from a clean slate despite their potential.

>laundered a few times through bureaucracy and spooks like "stately authority". they'd be retarded not to
Exactly, the issue isn't that people will do everything to their advantage, it's what's being allowed to exist as a means of such.

I really enjoy not working bros. after graduating from high school I lived rent free with my parents, went to school part time studying literature, and travelled with the money I saved up working casual hours at jobs I enjoyed but was never obligated to stay at (event planning at a hostel, taking foreign exchange students on field trips, cycling tours, etc.) I've gotten tired of work since, because even the best jobs become soul-destroying after prolonged mandatory participation, and now I live with my gf who is willing and able to support us both through a job that she genuinely loves. it's a dream situation for someone like me, who enjoys leisurely, free activities, like walking, reading, and cooking. some people will rage because there are those of us who are, for example, comfortably living off the government or their parents or their gf while jacking it to asian cartoons everyday. I don't think it's very healthy to envy people to the extent that if makes you aggressive towards them. maybe go for a walk, or prepare a nice snack, or get some extra sleep. I feel like it will help you feel less shitty at work tomorrow. though someone like me wouldn't know.

my diary desu

>>17700272
learn sanskrit and chinese, maybe also japanese or tibetan

>>17707617
i don't really want "change", or even to mooch, i just want hope that life doesn't have to be like this because i'm finding it difficult to imagine another few decades of employment without early retirement on the smith and wesson retirement plan

>>17692119
>making everyone work for wages is more recent than you think
no its not. for all of history we've had class warfare precisely because there were always poor people working for wages or if it wasn't exactly for wages it was an almost equivalent situation anyways. you are a lazy person. just remember sloth is a mortal sin.

>you are a lazy person. just remember sloth is a mortal sin.

>>17707669
>sloth is a mortal sin
i agree with you, but it does not follow that wanting to be free from wage slavery makes someone slothful. how else would you reconcile the monastic tradition with being forbidden to be slothful?

>>17707653
Maybe consider FIRE then, if you want to retire early. Some of those guys retire on 40.

>>17692273
https://4chanlit.fandom.com/wiki/Charts?file=15090330106373.png
faggot

>>17707821
thanks for finding that anon, i promise i did actually look, but i guess i'm retarded or something and didn't notice the charts section

As someone who has gone through failing out of one of texas's best universities philosophy program so 8 years of uni only to end up with a haphazard degree in painting and biology and then proceeded to fuck up teaching english in israel and then working at dunkin donuts for a year and is now studying to be a massage therapist amongst the chinks

Yes, Ikigai is possible. You can have a reason to get excited in the morning for your job.

You just have to struggle alot, and maintain high standards. Don't be surprised if it's somewhat out of left field, and remember that working a job based on your degree is salad, not salad.

I digress, working one job for the rest of your life is a thing of the 50's past. Expect multiple awkward, career changes and be adaptable.

Or shit learn to program an app or something.
Or sell your self on youtube kek
or learn a skill like art, plumbing, etc

except nobody is proud their husband is a plumber even though they make bank

massage therapist is based af. im massaging chink asses all day while they giggle and shit talk about my white ass and they all secretly want to fuck me. they give me cookies and shit. shits cash ngl. All you have to do is destroy all creepo and rapey vibes and you could have your hands full of oily tits and ass all day doing something they call productive kek

>>17707943
>needing a reason for being
cuck mentality Tbh

>>17707943
>Yes, Ikigai is possible
Is isekai possible? That’s all I care about.

Anyway, it’s really amazing how for quite literally thousands of years people have basically done one of a handful of things for a living and taken up a genuine vocation for their life, not a few years, their entire life, and now all of the sudden that’s different just because. Truth is, our modern world is composed of economies filled with dehumanizing, impersonal, even despicable jobs that suck and which will chew you up and spit you out for some labor and a profit and it really is just that simple. If you think you’ve found your thing rubbing Asian ass, great for you I guess. I’m still not buying the idea. Some of us will never be satisfied with any sort of economic career, especially in the modern sense and we just need to accept that.

>>17707943
I hope this thing I'm getting into is somewhere close to my ikigai. But it's not really something I love as much as something I feel would fulfill a fate I've been postponning but chaos conspires to deliver me to it still. I'm going to try following the dao now. Thanks for reading this blogpost.

>>17707943
I am not doing what I love, what I’m good at, or what makes money, or what the world needs. Where does that put me?

>>17707964
I'm not happy with anything if I have to go it alone. This is something /r/antiwork won't mention and communists would outright condemn because they want everyone to follow their cult but don't want actual autonomy and benefits for people.

Its easy to say people are entitled to education or healthcare, but what about love and peace of mind? And if you think somehow those are magically too hard to give people, than you're more "liberal" than the boomers you bad mouth as "bad faith actors and reactionaries". I hate" capitalism" but I really hate "communists".

I worked for six years straight no vacation at a security job I despised. Got promoted in the first six months because I was dating this terf at the time so had a reason too. Soon as she broke up with me because you know, retarded western society giving women rights and I can't honor kill her...suddenly why am I fucking doing this? Why am I putting up with bullshit from people? Still took a long time to fire me because I was a supervisor. Took a whole other company buying us out and from there new bosses and shit.

I would get back into sales. I like sales. Sales isn't ALWAYS sociopaths, there's lots of schizos too lol.
I'd enjoy a vape shop of some sort as well. Smoking is a huge hobby of mine.
But as God as my witness I will never wage again. Not for anyone.
People shouldn't pay their taxes or follow laws either if their third world shit hole can't even promise them basic things like a waifu or putting mods behind bars.

>>17707624
>and now I live with my gf who is willing and able to support us both through a job that she genuinely loves.
Does she have a sister?

>>17707943
thanks anon, your post was the final push i needed to go rent a helium tank

>>17707943
i too have learned to live with brain damage

>>17708110
You sound fun.

>>17692161
go home Marxist

>>17708055
in the lower class

>>17692155
>the shirt
topkek, please tell me it's what I think it is.

>>17707943
isnt ikigai that dude on youtube with the dope lo fi

>>17707621
Comparing selling a lawn mower (a product of technoindustrial society made in a factory with power, water, land rights, all secured and controlled by a "government" and part of a global trade network secured by force) on craigslist (using the Internet, an invention of DARPA which gets money from you know where) to Jeff Bezos getting a contract with USPS to distribute cheap chinese trash all over the US for robber's market cost to Amazon and also getting huge money from DoD and other alphabet soup agency contracts for their data centers and web services. Tell me exactly where the capitalism starts and ends in there.

>basically large companies provide NAP violation insurance where instead of having tax dollars funding police and courts you have a monthly subscription to a PMC to utilize their ability to generate force on your behalf.
So... a state. What's to stop that "voluntary" monthly subscription from becoming a tax? NAP violation insurance, that's rich. We're apparently already in a state of anarchocapitalism, humanity was born in it, and it produced our world today. Again, show me where the capitalism is and isn't in there.

>>17692119
Get a job.

>>17708110
I half sympathize but why is it all about getting things? You say those things give you peace of mind but it’s still about things. I don’t care about things. Work should be something which adds to our life in an immaterial sense if you ask me. The real tragedy of modern work is it’s the exact opposite of that.

>>17692155
>The Right to be Lazy by Paul Lafargue
Based. More Marxists need to read this because they think communism is when you're a wagie working 40 hours a day but this time your boss is the state.

The Manifesto Against Labour by Krisis is great, a bit too woke at times but still extremely relevant on the wageslavery question: https://www.krisis.org/1999/manifesto-against-labour/
For a lighter read, the original Graeber's essay about bullshit jobs is nice: https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/
If you feel like reading a dry Marxist book, I recommend Moishe Postone's Time, Labor and Social Domination. I've only read the first chapter tbqh but this already made me consider Marx in a very different light than through the lens of what he refers to as "traditional Marxism". Here is a blogpost that gives a quick rundown on him: https://theleftwind.wordpress.com/2018/12/08/the-tyranny-of-time-moishe-postones-immanent-critique/
Jehu is an blogger who wrote at length on why anti-work activists should campaign for less work hours instead of UBI, starting from a pretty idiosyncratic reading of Marx and Postone. Dig stuff on his blog, it can be quite interesting: https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/..
Debord and the situationists are classic anti-work too.

>>17692173
holy based

>>17711132

>>17707943
>except nobody is proud their husband is a plumber even though they make bank

Yeah, the facts that Ikigai doesn't always fit societies' idea of what on should be doing sucks. I quit an ok IT job just to take random classes at college to try to ground myself in a new career, but my friends and family think I should have just applied for other related jobs. But I chose the path that would help me feel fulfilled in the long run and would still lead to money anyways.

>>17707955
How is needing a reason for being part of having a cuck mentality? Isn't finding a reason for being the point of life?

>>17708055
depression

>>17711132
I hope this system crashes why would i pay in, pay to be ethnically cleansed yeah great idea

>>17692155
>The Abolition of Work by Bob Black
This is the only thing one needs
If you choose to read more, you've failed. You're a foolish busy bee and deserve your slavery

slavemaster and a thief; it steals from us our time, our creativity, our health, our humanness. It forces us to work where we don’t want, when we don’t want, to create things we don’t want for people we don’t want. Wage labor is the root of the system that robs us all of our human potential and at the same time it cannot exist without our willful cooperation in it each day we work.

Wage work erodes craftsmanship. Wage work erodes human relationships. Wage work fosters the industrial system which fouls the earth. Wage work forces us at the other end of our activity to become passive consumers of endless streams of worthless commodities. Wage work makes us passive spectators of our lives. “Everything that was once directly lived has moved away into a representation.”