/lit/ - Literature

first for zyzz

>>17709572
>Any progress
41k words now.

>>17709617
God calvin and hobbes was comfy
I remember buying a few comic collections when I was in grade school at a book fair. My friend and I spent weeks reading them at recess
Good times

>>17709627
>tfw we'll never see its like again

>>17709706
And that's a good thing. This makes it all the more precious.
Maybe I should add a paragraph or two praising Calvin & Hobbes into my story, there's a scene I've been thinking about where a guy tries to get others to read The Walking Dead, that's a good spot to talk about the comparative qualities of comics.

Callahan's Crosstime Saloon except it's a lesbian brothel.

I wish to drop this here if nowhere else, written around this same time, last year, originally in Brazilian Portuguese

Looking at the street, he remembered the carnavals he spent there as a child. The trampolines that were placed in the middle of the street, the music at the maximum volume exploding the eardrums of those who passed by, the street light of its typical orange color of Rio de Janeiro's light poles, the smell of carnaval spray foam, the smell of old paper from paper strings and confetti thrown all over the floor and all over the place, smells of beer and soda. It was always hot, it was always night, always a lot of noise and lots of lights, white that came from inside the establishments, yellow that came from the headlights of cars. He remembered that he stood at the height of his sitting mother's shoulders, who would tell him to enjoy the party as long as he could, because soon they would have to go, as the dreaded block of the bate-bolas was about to arrive. And in fact it would arrive, being more than a simple maternal threat like so many bogeymen, since the bogeyman himself would be humiliated if compared to the accumulated trauma that the bate-bolas left on the children.

After midnight the bate-bolas passed like a multitude of stampeding animals that beat down on everything in front of them with hollow hard plastic balls on the end of a thick cellophane tape. In his childhood, the balls of the bate-bolas were already made of plastic, and not an ox bladder tied to a stick as in the past. His elders called them “Clovis”, which seemed to be a most appropriate name for such an extravagant and colorful figure. With their masks that most resembled something that a Mexican luchador would wear with the theme of the face of a pictorial clown of a nature typical of the European carnaval, sometimes with his cartoonish features drawn to the appearance of an animated monster that could be seen as a cartoon villain. The puffy clothes, super-colorful and gaudy, with sleeves and collars and huge fabrics that wavered in the wind as they ran. Many sported frevo dance steps, suddenly falling on their ass to the ground and hovering their entire weight on the ankle of one bent leg at the last second, with the other leg stretched forward in a show of muscle capacity, immediately repeating the movement with the other leg. They screamed and ran and hit the ball, which made of a hard, hollow plastic made a frightening sound, and threw a plastic chair or table away, simply for the pleasure of causing a little chaos.

>>17709957
Marco liked the bate-bolas, but he was apprehensive, “no afraid!”, apprehensive of approaching them. Until he became a preteen, got himself a grim reaper black robe that was perfectly matched with the killer's mask from the “Scream” film series, rubber skeleton hand gloves, and a plastic scythe that was a black plastic thin tube with a slightly curved gray triangle at the end, that from playing and carrying with himself for weeks before the carnaval actually arrived, he ended up spontaneously learning to spin skillfully, spinning from the right hand's palm, letting it fall with its weight on top of his right hand, naturally doing a half spin on this hand to be caught by its palm passed to the left hand so that it repeated the movement with the momentum. He tried with a broom and realized that he could do it with heavier objects too.

He ran after the small children of his building like a sinister sight, in the childish eyes of someone who was not even eight years old, of some dark and evil specter that escaped some horrendous dimension of monsters and demons. The children ran through the patio screaming and looking back, not bothering to dodge a pillar or wall in front of them, hitting their heads and falling to the ground, causing their parents to complain to Marco's mother, who would make him take off his mask and reveal his human face, which laughed at their misfortune, while the child hid behind their father's leg, much more concerned with verifying that the unmasked reaper would not pursue them again, than with the red bump on their forehead.

Carnaval brought to his mind an ethos that was very similar to the day of Saint Cosmas and Dimas, another street party moved by a lot of running, racket, and the maddened childish joy of those who savor chaos much more for the chaos than for the sweets or the party. In his mind, the sensory stimulus he remembers is always the heat, and the wind of his own movement, of his own inner engine guided towards the release of the most primitive natural instincts, of the primate freedom that he so badly needs, like a member of the Society of Cacophony in a tomato fight in the middle of the streets of Spain in which more than one hundred people participate, or the Fight Clubs of some basement of Moscow where men destroy each other's faces, or the secret societies of deviant sex and cannnibalism of the uber-wealthy and powerful, of the warlords of African countries who drink wine in the skulls of their enemies and of the gangs of European hooligans that duke it out as if imagining themselves as a modern gladiator in the arenas of the alleys of Birmingham. If those fools only knew how much more fun it is to be a bate-bola.

I'm having a crisis of confidence. I worked pretty hard on (hopefully) the first section of a novel, submitted it to CC, where it was mostly ignored over its weeklong crit period. I can understand why it was ignored, but I'd hoped it was written well enough to elicit more responses—even negative responses. Hate I can deal with, but being ignored wasn't something I accounted for. Should I just give up on my stylism and write conventionally? It's by no means perfect, and I'm going to rewrite the shit out of it all, but I'm just trying to get a feel for the potential of the piece/style. If anyone wants to give it a read through and give me an honest assessment, I'd really appreciate it.
>https://www.critiquecircle.com/queue.asp?action=lookup&index=174936

>>17710053
What is this dogshit? Put it somewhere I can read it.

>>17710071
My bad. Pastebin doesn't let me post it publicly because of the content. Didn't know CC required membership to view.
>https://0bin.net/paste/PJ4rS+Ga#Hkyv8jUtZZxY0B2KXyB3TmI9S7mrjoT+mnVTY-MQONq

>>17710119
What were you on when you wrote this?

>>17710119
I'm not reading more than two paragraphs of that shit son, they're more than correct to dismiss another rando 20 year old who think's he's writing proto-finnegans wake.

Most try hard shit I've ever seen

>>17709957
There's a lot of obvious ESL mistakes here. For example:
>he remembered the carnavals he spent there
First, you spelled carnival wrong consistently. Second, you don't spend carnivals, you spend time at them.
>but he was apprehensive, “no afraid!”, apprehensive of approaching them
This sentence makes no sense. It feels like a direct translation of speech patterns that don't exist in English. You use apprehensive twice, separated by a dialogue fragment which does nothing to clarify what you actually mean.

>>17710138
Nothing. I'm just going for a very specific voice I hear in my head.
>>17710152
>another rando 20 year old who think's he's writing proto-finnegans wake.
I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion (this is a reasonable reaction) but neither of these things are actually anywhere close to true.

>>17710154
It was spelled carnAval on purpose, as to signify the specific breed of carnival we have in Rio de Janeiro, and to detach it from the idea of "carnival as understood outside of Brazil".

The "spend" part comes from treating it as its own holiday, as one would do Christmas, such as "spent Christmas here."

>It feels like a direct translation of speech patterns that don't exist in English
Yea, I thought it would translate smoothly into English but it most likely doesn't, the repetition of apprehensive happens because the second one was in italics, for a comedic example of an excuse the character gives.

I'm going to admit that English completely fucks my style.

>>17710176
Just be aware that the common wisdom wrt translations of literature is that outcomes are much better when the translator is taking from a second language and translating to their native language. There are exceptions, of course, but guys like Nabokov who learned a second language well enough to write in it are vanishingly rare.

>>17709957
>>17709964
Your prose isn't good enough for what you're attempting. Sentences are too long.

>>17710119
>I'm in. My fingers dance like aging dervishes past a dubious prime atop the iPhone 5's stage.
No one can read this. Even if I open up a dictionary I still can't read it.

>>17710185
Btw thanks for taking the time to read it.

>>17710191
>No one can read this. Even if I open up a dictionary I still can't read it.
I can. Is English not your first language?

>>17710194
I keep forgetting, but I wanted to say that there is definite evidence that you can write... In your native language. The way and places you use your descriptions and language suggest a knowledge of the mechanics of language, but the actual specifics are lacking in English, if that makes sense.

>>17710119
it's genuinely unreadable

>>17710191
>Even if I open up a dictionary I still can't read it.
sheez
it's pseud-y and clumsy but it's still legible english, cmon anon
you should be opening up books

>>17710203
>>17710248
I get the gist that fingers are tapping a phone screen. I don't know where aging, dubious, and prime would make sense.

>>17710262
I'm the fuck who wrote it.
>Aging dervishes
Reference to the whirling dervishes, who have a distinctive dance characterized by constant motion with an element of religious ecstasy
>Past a dubious prime
They're aging. When you age your body starts performing worse than you expect them to. In their prime they would move with youth and vigor, if they'd had a prime, which is dubious. It's a play on the idea of dancing. The narrator is basically noting his clumsiness while simultaneously celebrating his ineptitude. I don't want to give up the ghost, but the iPhone 5 is a recurring motif and the narrator's relationship with technology-ergo-late-capitalitm is a definite theme I'm developing.

>>17710262
goodness anon
i'm glad you have the humility to admit you can't parse this but it's not exactly high level
>My fingers dance like X
metaphor starts
>aging dervishes past a dubious prime
the fingers are like old dancers

there's a sentence construction technique where you attach the basic concepts with the sentence with lines. I thought it was interesting when I learned of it, I bet it'd probably help you
unfortunately I don't remember what it's called
if any anons know direct this poor illiterate soul

>>17710306
>>17710330
I could write an essay on this and I'd only get 1% of it correct. I thought the fingers were moving physically "past a dubious prime", as in something on the screen. It didn't help when aging and dubious prime were going for the same meaning.

>>17710222
Aw thanks, yes it reads much better in Portuguese, the difference is almost night and day.

>>17710372
writing in your non-native tongue is incredibly based
fundamental language processing is core to writing, it's good that you're practicing it
you should write something in english rather than translate it over. you'll undoubtedly make sick literary gains

>>17710191
>>17710306
It's dumb because dervishes are known for their whirling dance style, so I imagine his fingers spinning like drills on the phone screen. Old and dysfunctional drills, apparently.

My writing is utter dogshit and nonsense but I'm getting a better grasp at what I want my story to be

>>17710434
I was thinking more of the way the feet move, but this metaphor might actually be a little too vague, even for me.

>>17710525
I know exactly what I want my stories to be and they're still dogshit.

On a night just as any other, spent doing nothing. Lazily stumbling towards the bathroom, this is where we meet our protagonist. A bent-over man of middling height and sizable gut. After chugging down his daily six-pack of Bud Light, he was ready to take a piss. Not just any ordinary, run of the mill piss however. This was going to be a big one he could tell. Busting his way through the swinging double doors, they clacked loudly against the wall. Our character situated himself in front of the toilet and began to prepare himself for the deed. After fumbling with his belt for a longer time than one would expect, he dropped his trousers to the floor and squatted upon his golden throne. With this final action, he had just unknowingly condemned himself to an unusual fate. It began as always, taking a time to get the pipes flowing, and from there the stream quickly crescendoing into a deluge. Subtlety taking note of the ferocity of the stream, the man pondered nothing in particular. It wasn't until a good two minutes later, the stream still unabatedly flowing, that the man first noticed something was amiss. But quickly placating any unease, he dismissed it as just an unusually large bladder. However, three minutes later there were no signs of it subsiding any time soon. Attempting to cut it off, he flexed his pelvic muscles, but to no avail. To hell with it he thought as he tried to stand up only to realize that he could no longer stand. It was as if he was glued to the seat, his lower body no longer under his command. Thirty minutes and there was no longer any semblance of structured thought occuring. Running through his mind at a million miles an hour, was only white hot fear. But as the hours dragged on, the fear faded away as his body impossibly continued to vacate its bladder. No longer capable of enough thought to be afraid, his body slowly withered away in front of him.

>>17710702
Better than the one where the protag fell into an anus.

Anyone else write down every random story fragment that comes into their head? Even if it only lasts a few paragraphs?

>>17710874
Yes.

>>17710874
Yes.

>>17710874
Yes.

>>17710874
Yes! OH YES!

>>17710874
YES! DON'T STOP! YES!

>>17710874

Bit of an idea I had based on the shoulder angel and devil trope. Not sure who should win in the end.


It was the most beautiful thing she had ever seen. A huge slice of black forest cake covered in chocolate flakes, with cream oozing out the side and bright red cherries on top. Mouth watering she dug a chunk out with a fork and was about to go wild before the whole thing suddenly vanished.

“Oh no, we are NOT eating that,” Angel declared appearing in a puff of smoke. “We’ve worked too hard and you know it!”

Devil stared at her empty hand in disbelief for a moment. “Could you leave me alone,” she muttered, “FOR FIVE MINUTES?”

“Not if this is what you’re gonna get up to, no. I can’t even turn around without you sneaking off to try and ruin our diet.”

“Oh come on! We do everything your way. Perfect grades, perfect manners, this is the one thing I used to be able to do without you being a buzzkill.”

“And look where that got us,” she said grabbing a handful of her soft belly. “We wouldn’t have to diet in the first place if you hadn’t decided we were gonna live entirely on candy and fast food. Maybe if you’d tried even a little self control.”

Devil let out an exaggerated groan. “You never used to complain.” She gave her own stomach a slap. “Who cares if we’re fat?”

“The one that already lost us five pounds, that’s who.”

“Oh great five whole pounds. That was totally worth living on salads and getting up early every morning to bust our butt up that stupid hill.”

“It’s worth it to not be a fat disgusting slob.”

“Says you, Miss Insecurity. I’m not the one that makes us cry into our pillow every night now just cuz we’re fat, am I? Face it we’d be better off with me in charge.”

“With you in charge we’ll be dead by thirty.”

“At least we’ll enjoy life until then. You really wanna eat rabbit food for the next 60 years?”

“I’m not dying fat and alone just because you couldn’t stop stuffing food in your selfish face. I want that boy in English class to actually notice we exist. You really thing he’s going to while we’re like this?”

“Who knows? Maybe he’s one of those chubby chasers. We might get his attention by eating more cake!” She snapped her finger and raised the fork full of cake to her mouth before Angel quickly snapped it away again. “Besides, who says we want him? Maybe we’ve got our eye on that cute chick that sits next to us in art.”

Angel’s face turned red. “I’ve told you a hundred times we’re not like that.” She hesitated for a moment, “and it’s not like she’d want us either.”

“Maybe if you let me do the talking. No offense but you’re kind of a massive dork.”

Its not working out bros

>>17710119
You've posted this at least twice before and both times I've said that it's completely unbearable. Of course it's going to ignored. I'm more surprised at the fact that you are surprised.

>>17710119
>https://0bin.net/paste/PJ4rS+Ga#Hkyv8jUtZZxY0B2KXyB3TmI9S7mrjoT+mnVTY-MQONq

Thanks for making me feel better about my own work anon

>>17710176
>here's some mistakes you made
>no you don't understand it's just my style
Fuck off

>>17711133
Just remember that it's fleeting, and the reasons you feel badly about your writing will still be there once your momentary superiority kick has subsided.
>>17711115
I don't tend to put much stock in summary dismissal. "I don't like it" is a valid reaction, but it doesn't give me enough to go on to take any meaningful action. There's nothing to be done with that except add a tally to the list of people who dislike it, and I don't keep that list in the first place. I'm surprised because it is a community explicitly organized around giving rational, longform critiques and despite giving many myself, few were received.

I found a bunch of little stories I wrote about an old coworker like 6 years ago. Anyone want to shit on this?
Corey McKinnon was an immense figure; he was truly larger than life. Protruding slabs of meat stretched his uniform tight, and the whole building shakes when he struts around -- such power in his legs. In his head, he was Zangief but with a ten pound vape on his hip that looked like a sawed off shotgun. As remarkable as his figure was, he was an extraordinary unkempt at times. Chest hair crawled out of his half button shirt and it distracted me from his question. I've never seen hair that dirty before; greasy and matted. Clumps of hair twisted around chunks of food --the tip of a hotdog was captured in the thick hair. I wanted to vomit.

"Well?" Corey asked.

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear you," I said.

Corey shook his head. I couldn't tell where chin ended and his neck began. His whole body was shaking in disapproval. We were already fairly close, he stood no more than a pace away, but he slowly slid closer, closing the gap between himself and I. A crocodile to an antelope, his eyes firmly fixed upon my own. Corey's musk stung at my nostrils and watered my eyes.

"I'm sorry," I said, repeating myself. My heart was racing, beating like a snare drum pounding my ears. I felt sweat on my forehead trickle to my nose and bridge the tight gap between his and my own. It trickled down to his lips.

"I said, do-you-like-the-job," Corey said, saying each word slowly as if speaking to a child or a foreigner. The sweat rolled into his opened mouth.

"Yes sir, I do. I'm learning very much," I managed to squeak out. I glued my eyes to the floor. Everyone at the shop, myself included, wore boots, or some sort of high-traction shoe designed to reduce slip on oily surfaces. Corey wore Crocs.
"Your favorite part?" he asked.

Two weeks working at Coco's Fast Lane and I hadn't learned anything. I wasn't trusted to do anything other than close the garage doors of the service center after customers had pulled in or exited. On my first day I had received a stool that I was to place near the wall switches that controlled the garage doors. A stocky white man named Wade was in charge of training new hires, and he instructed me to man the stool at all times. Wade said once he felt comfortable with my ability, he would let Corey personally evaluate my progress and that I'd then be a '*Certified Door-Tech*,' --assuming he was satisfied. I am unsure if this certificate will hold weight on a resume, but you never know.

"Opening doors, sir."

Corey squinted his eyes at me and pressed his face even closer until our noses mushed together. "Good," he said, "Good."

I found a bunch of little stories I wrote about an old coworker like 6 years ago. Anyone want to shit on this?

Corey McKinnon was an immense figure; he was truly larger than life. Protruding slabs of meat stretched his uniform tight, and the whole building shakes when he struts around -- such power in his legs. In his head, he was Zangief but with a ten pound vape on his hip that looked like a sawed off shotgun. As remarkable as his figure was, he was an extraordinary unkempt at times. Chest hair crawled out of his half button shirt and it distracted me from his question. I've never seen hair that dirty before; greasy and matted. Clumps of hair twisted around chunks of food --the tip of a hotdog was captured in the thick hair. I wanted to vomit.

"Well?" Corey asked.

"I'm sorry, I didn't hear you," I said.

Corey shook his head. I couldn't tell where chin ended and his neck began. His whole body was shaking in disapproval. We were already fairly close, he stood no more than a pace away, but he slowly slid closer, closing the gap between himself and I. A crocodile to an antelope, his eyes firmly fixed upon my own. Corey's musk stung at my nostrils and watered my eyes.

"I'm sorry," I said, repeating myself. My heart was racing, beating like a snare drum pounding my ears. I felt sweat on my forehead trickle to my nose and bridge the tight gap between his and my own. It trickled down to his lips.

"I said, do-you-like-the-job," Corey said, saying each word slowly as if speaking to a child or a foreigner. The sweat rolled into his opened mouth.

"Yes sir, I do. I'm learning very much," I managed to squeak out. I glued my eyes to the floor. Everyone at the shop, myself included, wore boots, or some sort of high-traction shoe designed to reduce slip on oily surfaces. Corey wore Crocs.
"Your favorite part?" he asked.

Two weeks working at Coco's Fast Lane and I hadn't learned anything. I wasn't trusted to do anything other than close the garage doors of the service center after customers had pulled in or exited. On my first day I had received a stool that I was to place near the wall switches that controlled the garage doors. A stocky white man named Wade was in charge of training new hires, and he instructed me to man the stool at all times. Wade said once he felt comfortable with my ability, he would let Corey personally evaluate my progress and that I'd then be a '*Certified Door-Tech*,' --assuming he was satisfied. I am unsure if this certificate will hold weight on a resume, but you never know.

"Opening doors, sir."

Corey squinted his eyes at me and pressed his face even closer until our noses mushed together. "Good," he said, "Good."

>>17711407
>As remarkable as his figure was, he was an extraordinary unkempt at times.
these are not necessarily mutually exclusive, especially with the previous description you've given us.
are their foreheads literally touching? a bit unbelievable at first. might work if you push it, might not.

>>17710119
is this what people meant when you're trying to write like you're in the 19th century? aren't the pseuds supposed to like it?

Would the prose resources in OP be helpful if I want to write a manga-tier story for a small game I'm working on? Are there other resources I should consider? I have the general outlines but zero writing experience and I want to cover the basics because I'm sure I'd miss even the obvious fundamentals since I'm a bit of an autist when it comes to interpreting writing.

It's the usual manga kitsch but I'm looking for:
>ways to make the immediate world feel lived in
>ways to make the larger world feel mysterious and expansive
>ways to make likeable layered characters
>ways to do character arcs properly
>story beats and act structure

And anything else that would help it not appear completely amateurish. I know manga and game writing standards aren't exactly high but I'd still want to try to make the most of it.

>>17710119
I can't tell if this is bullshit, tryhard, or just drug-addled rambling.

>>17709957
I suspect that if you just tried to tell a straightforward story instead of trying to be, I dunno, Brazilian Hemingway, you might have a more interesting story to tell.

>>17710176
>I thought it would translate smoothly into English but it most likely doesn't, the repetition of apprehensive happens because the second one was in italics, for a comedic example of an excuse the character gives
It can be done in English in exactly the same way, you just don't know English vocabulary and grammar well enough to pull it off.

>>17711230
The problem with your writing is that what you're trying to pull off is too complicated for your skill. You probably read something that looked like frenetic rambling with a lot of long and obscure words that turned out to be "like super meaningful DUUUDE" at the end and you think you can replicate that. The problem is, such writing only gives an appearance of trend-breaking chaos but in reality is much clearer, much more orthodox than it looks. Such writers know exactly how to write so that it seems complicated for a moment and then falls into place. They make the difficult look easy, and you fell for that.

You're trying to compose a 100-instrument orchestral piece but you're barely up to Grade 2 on each instrument and you're throwing it all together screaming "LOOK BEETHOVEN HAS A HUNDRED INSTRUMENTS, I HAVE A HUNDRED INSTRUMENTS, IT SHOULD WORK!" but it's all just a hugely discordant jangling pile of bovine byproduct and we're trying to tell you that.

>>17711230
I gave more feedback than that but appreciate that sometimes you just don't want to apply feedback. Just don't be surprised when people don't want to read something so hard to read, especially normies (which I imagine most people on that website are). They will default to the easiest thing to read and critique.

>>17711468
This is the book you're looking for.

These are a lot easier to write when you have a concise idea before you start
Guess that's all writing

See you guys tomorrow morning

>>17711407
>was
>stretched
>shakes
>struts
Sort out your fuckin tenses.

>an extraordinar(IL)y unkempt
what?

>*,' --
Use proper punctuation.

Is there a point to this story other than "ahaha I had a disgusting boss I hated"?

>>17711512
I loved Corey. He was a real life cartoon character.

I have a real affinity for using punctuation that's meaning I don't understand because I like how it looks. I'll be honest.

>>17711491
This looks great, I'll check it out, thanks

>>17711533
There is also this.

>>17711526
>that's
And words too. Well you can have your fun but it's distracting and readers might not stand for it.

>I loved Corey. He was a real life cartoon character.
Sure, no problem, but you have to make him lovable. Right now I'm not getting any of that, and I'm not getting any incentive to care about Corey Part 2: McKinnon Strikes Back either.

We writers are entertainers. We need to keep readers engaged. You can't just go "I promise this joke will leave you in rolling on the floor, just bear with me for the next 15 minutes of background." Doesn't work that way.

>>17711478
>You probably read something that looked like frenetic rambling with a lot of long and obscure words that turned out to be "like super meaningful DUUUDE" at the end and you think you can replicate that. The problem is, such writing only gives an appearance of trend-breaking chaos but in reality is much clearer, much more orthodox than it looks.
Can you outline its othodoxy very briefly? In what ways is it more orthodox than it appears? In what ways does something genuinely less othodox differ with respect to my writing? I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just trying to understand what exactly it is that gave you the impression I'm just hacking things together?

>>17711558
>Doesn't work that way
Not that anon but the funniest joke I know does actually work that way.
https://natethesnake.com/

>>17711486
Yeah that's fair. The whole piece rests on the incredibly arrogant hope that I'm good enough with words to the point where the reader will see something worth uncovering. I might just not be good enough, per >>17711478. Not sure if I can/should attach a "yet" to it.

>>17711558
I understand and agree with 95% of what you're saying. This little snippet is just all that it is. It's not exactly a joke, but if you want to call it one, no one would understand it like I would or my coworkers because you didn't know Corey.

Does anyone here have experience with actual typewriters? I imagine the sound they make and seeing your pile of papers growing would be psychologically speaking very satisfying.

>>17711648
I imagine that scene where Hemingway ripped out sheet after sheet from his typewriter and let them float to the trash bin.

>>17711677
What's the story behind this?

>>17711562
>In what ways does something genuinely less othodox differ with respect to my writing?
One of the most unusual recent novels I've read is Charles Stross's Halting State. It's written in 2nd person, has a lot of run-on sentences, and huge amounts of both real and fake tech-speak. Yet it is quite understandable and follows standard plotting conventions.

Or maybe something like Dickens, which is difficult to read for most of us because of its dated language and slower pace.

>what exactly it is that gave you the impression I'm just hacking things together?
The fact that I can't make head or tail of what you're writing. It looks like you tried to write something, hid some kind of esoteric meaning in it, then layered another meaning on top, and then converted all that by way of thesaurus into the most archaic wording possible. Do you think that impresses anyone? No, it does not. It comes off mostly as pretentious bullshit.

>Fear not for the bell's toils. It's naught that might yet-not be undone. Never find yourself weeping for the tolling, the tolling. It rings salience from the fry, its piercings through the crisp air to grow but dimmed with day’s progress and weighten down under the humid sea breeze. Beneath blanketing clangour awaken the men of the town, their cottons clinglong still the residual warmth of bed, out of which must be drawn, they, into the crisp. Sittings-up muffle in tuplicate throughout the town. Sleeping arms gently lifted, no, let them sleep a while longer yet. There's time still for a stogie in the morning, upon the porch, or over the table and the day's papers. Sleepwashed anew, it falls to me to do for myself what must be done. Rituals, scratching in the nascence of a new day, day like any other really, but day nonetheless, as I might, as I might. Yawning. Stumbles, small sip from morning's fiery flask, another for good measure.

All this bullshit to describe someone waking up, with perhaps a single musing on not regretting another day? Perhaps you think it's philosophical, to me it is a big pile of nonsense for a too-tiny scrap of meaning. I'm not wasting time wading through this, you're not offering enough substance to make it worthwhile.

It might be better for you to dial back the thesaurus-speak and try to get what you're trying to say across in plain English.

Any writing youtubers or podcasts you guys listen to for motivation?

>>17711709
yeah i have this thread running through a text to speech bot

>>17711695
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemingway_%26_Gellhorn

>>17711580
No, it actually doesn't. That's a well-written story by the way. Nearly every paragraph leads the reader on.

Contrast
>So, there's a man crawling through the desert.
>He'd decided to try his SUV in a little bit of cross-country travel, had great fun zooming over the badlands and through the sand, got lost, hit a big rock, and then he couldn't get it started again. There were no cell phone towers anywhere near, so his cell phone was useless. He had no family, his parents had died a few years before in an auto accident, and his few friends had no idea he was out here.

Against most of what we post here. Very few of us can achieve that "hooked in 2 sentences" quality. I've seen maybe only 2 writers here who did it - and they're semi-professional I believe.

And even so I'd say the joke went on much too long, although the meta-joke of such jokes is in its intentionally time-wasting effect.

>>17711703
>The fact that I can't make head or tail of what you're writing
Part of the experiment has an epistemological bent to it. There are absolutely little nodules of meaninglessness. I've done a decent amount of study on Finnegans Wake and it's struck me something fierce—namely the questions it raises about the relationship between language and meaning and the nature of value. Take finwake for example, which is tantamount to meaninglessness at face value, yet it's a work that has value regardless. Is the structure which underpins it the source of its value? Is it the beauty of the language used? This is why it's frustrating to me when people assume I haven't done the legwork because I have. I have specific concepts I'm trying to explore and I have structure (a kind of reverse Heart of Darkness). Granted, the manipulation of meaning and sense seem to be deeply unpopular. "If he can make sense, why doesn't he?" I can't seem to find a way to get a reader to even leave this question open-ended. By the way, I've never once opened a thesaurus in my life. I'm not boasting, it's just a fact.

>>17711703
Thank you for taking the time to write that out, by the way. I definitely understand where you're coming from a lot better than I usually do.

>>17711544
It seems oriented towards the theory of storytelling rather than comics which is great, and Moore's one of the rare respectable comic writers, thanks for the rec I'll definitely check it out

>>17711844
>Part of the experiment has an epistemological bent to it
And nobody cares, anon.

>There are absolutely little nodules of meaninglessness
The problem with your writing is that it's more like little flecks of meaningfulness in a fuckhuge pile of meaningless slag, and they're absolutely not worth the bother of going through all that to obtain.

Personally I've much more enjoyed and benefited from the reverse; stories which pass off as wham-bam-thankyoumaam action flicks but reveal huge reserves of deep philosophies underneath the frenzy of sex, crime and murder.

>it's frustrating to me when people assume I haven't done the legwork because I have. I have specific concepts I'm trying to explore and I have structure
I will grant that you possibly do. Just like everyone has a Great Novel in their heads. However 99.9% of writing is in TRANSMITTING the idea to readers, because we are not a telepathic species. And in that side of things you fail terribly. And that's what I'm trying to get across to you; the greats of yore pulled it off, but you don't have sufficient "oomph" to do that. Similar to how Jackson Pollock's work sells, but not some 5-year-old's paint-spattered refrigerator showpiece.

>By the way, I've never once opened a thesaurus in my life
If that's true, then you're wasting your talent for language exploring this nonsense when you could be putting it to good use writing normal stuff.

But eh, if you want to martyr your talents in service to your version of art, be my guest. If it makes you happy, by all means.

>>17711844
>I've never once opened a thesaurus in my life
Too young to have done anything but Google words

>>17709572
can anyone send any good links to videos on how to write good fiction. I'd read the recommended books but I have other books taht I am reading at the moment.

>>17712102
>I'd read but I don't want to
Read more. Write more. Don't be such a pansy about it
You won't get good at it by watching videos

>>17711844
>This is why it's frustrating to me when people assume I haven't done the legwork because I have
If people are making this assumption then you haven't done enough or haven't done it properly. It isn't enough to just enjoy and study Finnegan's Wake (although I can tell that you have). I love nonsensical and experimental things but you need a lot more work.

What are the best youtube channels about writing? I know of terrible writing advice, and he's decent. Daniel Greene is a massive fag. Most of the other results are some tumblr tier women that I do not want to waste my time with.

>>17712102
>>17712221
>wants to write
>doesn't have the attention span to read books on writing
absolutely ngmi

>>17712278
I am already writing(30k words), I just want to watch some content on youtube about it.

>everyone bragging about how the've written a few 10k words
>tfw just finished wrapping up a 200k word project
>mfw

>>17712406
I'd rather write 1k good words than 200k of dogshit.

>>17712278
same as other guy except im reading other books for college at the moment.

>>17712107
how would you know, apparantly you havent tried it. perhaps you are just a pretentious reader, asshole and an insignifi-cunt bastard who has a superiority complex based on their words read per minute, sad. either post links or move on.

>>17712466
>spoonfeed me or you're a meanie jerk
Get fucked. Read more

>>17711648
They’re a giant pain in the ass unless you’re willing to shell out some big cash to get an actually functioning one maintained by a specialist.

There’s also a steep learning curve at first, but while it’s working it is indeed very satisfying. It makes you slow down a bit too, which makes you think about the writing a bit more. The typed script and the slight impressions made into the page make it wonderful to read.

There’s a reason there is a large community interested in mechanical keyboards. Typewriters offer the same satisfaction, but an order of magnitude greater.

I type this all from my iPhone, and am now aware of how inferior of an experience it is.

>>17712431
>so am I
>postgrad
and I can tell you mate, either you're so wasted from your college workload that you're not going to be able to learn much about writing anyways be it in book or video form; or you're incapable of reading both your college stuff and writing stuff at once in which case...

...absolutely NGMI

>>17712513
What is this hippy dippy bullshit

>Typewriters offer the same satisfaction
and that is?

>>17712512
no its spoonfeed me or dont be a cunt. my comment doesnt read as "if you dont help me your a dick" its "if your not going to help why comment other than to try make yourself feel superior." hence why i ended it with calling you sad.

>>17712221
Brandon Sanderson’s lectures to BYU are available on YouTube, you can search his name, uploaded by an account called Camera Panda

>>17712431
>student
>wants to pick up a new hobby
shiggy

>>17712531
>why are you bullying me for shitting up the thread
It's because if you actually had an earnest interest in learning and writing you'd be both learning and writing
If you well and truly thought that youtube was going to be a more effective learning resource for you than something in the OP, then you'd have found a video on your own
Seek validation elsewhere

>>17712525
I'm half way throiugh "revolt against the modern world" Ive started the KJB and Le Morte Arthur.; Am I fuck starting another book on how to write fiction, ill just fuckin practice, how can a thread dedicated to writing be so useless at just posting some kind of video on writing and be like "yeah this video seems good but I'd recommend reading and writing more as its something you kinda just have to experience, like sitting on my dads dildo for the first time while he plays "sweet caroline" on ukulele to set the mood."
>also found these cunts..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq01-5SZuoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfqGPv5GTPI

>>17712577
>Am I fuck starting another book on how to write fiction, ill just fuckin practice
then fucking do so, it'd probably be more helpful anyhow

>how can a thread dedicated to writing be so useless at just posting some kind of video on writing
most aren't worth it, and besides as I said, you're not going to get much learning out of a video OR book, even if it is good, if you're already doing all the shit you're doing

Searching for more stuff when you have plenty to go thorugh already is just procrastination.

>>17712577
Just write.

>>17712630
but fucking look at it.

>>17709957
What even is the premise? Why would I read your story? I don't give a shit about a random carnival and MCs political opinions

>>17710119
>Describes random town in old fashioned and boring way for the start of the story.
Why do you expect me to be interested? This is so boring! Where's the fucking premise?!

>>17710702
I love the start, but the middle and the end could be more vulgar.

>>17711101
Fun premise, but where's the point?

>>17711499
Is that all? I feel like I wasted my time expecting something...

>>17712406
But is it interesting?

>>17712690
>MCs political opinions
?

It's a fictionalized retelling of some things that happened to me as a kid in Rio's Carnaval, which I wrote for fun a year ago, and thought of incorporating as a throwaway chapter in some novel if I ever decide to write one.

>>17712662
can also have the second page

>>17712662
>>17712846
>le wacky nonsensical things just happening

>>17712896
yeah for 70 pages, I cant stop so id prefer to actually get good at it. see where this story goes..

>>17709572
behead vtubers and their simpathizers

>>17712896
maybe it is stupid but its literally 70 pages of this kind of shit so far and I think I can actually make something out of it, even if it is just for me.

>finally taking notes for my story
>every two sentences i have to go work on the lore before continuing because one thing or the other doesn't make sense
>characters i want to be part of a faction shouldn't really be there
>some backstories fall apart if i just make the characters involved use their brains for a few seconds
>somehow have trouble creating orphans, the most basic genre writer skill
Man, I feel dumb.

My thread’s a bust so I’m posting this request here. I've got 4 books I like to publish and want to know which is least crap. You critique one, I'll critique one of yours.

1.) WE WUZ KANGZ: The Novel
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X3RPNzC5cN0kVonIxBACUnsapJMFimZA5IFjCa5n7AQ/edit?usp=sharing
2.) 56%: Phillipines Edition
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tS2h7VLCdcXCmwmyzOFg94aHWL9TuYmkVF2FP-X6mto/edit?usp=sharing
3.) qt13.4 robo girl love story
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FsLZTu053FceoLGCN2ZgzrmpqsHEokEre-TO4Rguz8o/edit?usp=sharing
4.) MY ANCESTOR: A Fairytale
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uRLLlTX8nHp4eBlEDOipWX7fAaDZL4MstcygK1ib3to

Hey, I wanted to know what you guys thought about demons related to more than one sin? I like the concept where demons are created based off of the seven deadly sins(Wrath, lust, greed, sloth, gluttony, envy, and pride), but I wanted to expand that concept and create demons related to 2 sins. I wanted to try and define the emotions that'd be a sub category of 2 sins, like Hedonism would be the combination of Gluttony and lust. Obviously doing sub categories for demons based on these sins is really hard to pull off, because some sins don't really work together, like wrath and sloth. anyone got any ideas for "compound emotions" or maybe monsters that'd conceptualize 2 sins?
Thanks for the help

>>17712414
People usually write a lot to have a lot to edit.

>>17713329
why letter format? I go with A5, bottom and top 0.5, left and right 0.75

>>17713767
It seemed the most convenient at the time

Not really sure where I got this, but I’ll let y’all know how it is. If anyone has already read it, let me know how it is.

>>17713329
I ain't clicking shit without a synopsis.

>>17712662
>peak out of the window

>>17713415
>demons are created based off of the seven deadly sins
Been a while since I watched it but wasn't this what Full Metal Alchemist did? Or was it the Brotherhood version? Either way, I feel like wrath and sloth would actually go well together. Just some hateful layabout type (see incels, /pol/, fat libs, etc)

>>17712690
>I feel like I wasted my time expecting something...
Got a laugh out of me. The end of life being an anti climactic
>thats it?
is pretty much how I wanted that to go. You pointing it out reminds me of "A Song on the End of the World" by Czeslaw Milosz. Wasn't intentionally inspired but I'm sure it incepted some ideas into me as I like the poem
Thanks for the (you) mass crit anon. If nothing else your response shows its at least interesting enough to be disappointed in

>>17712690
>I just couldn't get into it. I mean, Billy chose Suzanne over Chloe?! It just wasn't believable!!! Billy and Chloe had such great chemistry!!!

>>17713892
>Been a while since I watched it but wasn't this what Full Metal Alchemist did?
idk, I never watched full metal alchemist. I just like the warhammer concept of demons made from emotions and I wanted to flesh that out further with the capital vices and add more subcategories, bc you can get really creative with demons/monsters when you add multiple aspects to them.

Like with sloth, there's a lot of ways you can interpret aspect that into a monster, I like the idea that sloth based demons are plant based, because trees and other plants are static objects that slowly grow overtime.

Then you can combine the sloth aspect with gluttony and make a mold based cosmic horror that's constantly consuming matter at a sluggish pace, like an avalanche in slowmotion

>>17713989
>warhammer concept of demons made from emotions
this is demon fundies
they SHOULD be made from emotions/human sin/desire
that's what makes demons demons

>>17713846
appreciated

>>17714009
fair enough, I guess I wanted to find a way to include monsters into that same concept as well, like the standard tolkien style dragons are a combination of Wrath + greed, Wendigos are a combination of greed(or wrath?) + gluttony. Like the initial demons were created by the 7 sins, and maybe after some time, monsters were created from these various emotions clashing and interacting with each other

>>17714009
desu, I kinda want the capital vices to play a role in the origin of magic in the world im building too. Like fire spells are related to wrath, hypnosis relates to lust, transmutation to greed and things like that. Someone had talked about how drug addictions relate to all 7 vices and I thought it'd be interesting to compare the negative outcomes of using magic too much to what happens when you take too much of certain drugs

>>17711648
ive used a typewriter before. its comfy. and loud. dont use one when you live with others

Really stupid question but
Once you've written a short story, what do you do with it?
Is it a better bid to try and publish them individually on magazines or to try and present a collection to a publisher?

>>17712221
theres a playlist of robert olen butler, a pulitzer prize winner, going through the process of writing a short story. its rather dry, but i cant think of anything better.

>>17712221
too be fair, Overly Sarcastic Productions' Trope Talks playlist is pretty nice to get a quick understanding of certain tropes, like I didn't know what lancers were, and their playlist kinda got me interested in writing novels

>>17714191
The best thing for a beginner is to put it online for free someplace and attempt to build an audience, which will make you more marketable for future sales.

There are basically two markets for short stories these days. The first is genre magazines, most of which have gone online these days. Unless you've written something truly amazing, these editors will really only consider publishing something from someone who already has a following.

The second are high-end literary magazines, like The New Yorker and such. They will not accept your submission, unless you are a queer minority writing about the struggles of a trust-fund negro trying to make rent for her charming little Williamsburg brownstone by publishing twee little poems, meanwhile degrading herself by going out to lunch with men who don't totally thrill her. Will she be forced to sell her soul by getting a job with the greeting card company? Or will she compromise her integrity by asking her parents for money again? None of these questions will be resolved in the climax, wherein our heroine dances nude in the rain, "feeling everything all at once, the pulse of the city beating in her heart, a million immigrant sensations landing on her skin and she, the Lady Liberty of her own Ellis Island, arms spread open to welcome them all."

>>17711709
Brad Listi's Other People
1Storypod

I put those on when I'm tapped out, too unmotivated and tired to do any work myself.

>>17714313
Is royal road good for short stories or is there a better website for that kind of stuff?
In a very imaginary future, is a royal road following even considered proof of concept to the publishers you've listed?

>>17714369
RR is for long term serials
Expect to get effectively 0 attention there

>>17714376
Then where the fuck do I post short stories starting out?
What if I send something to the New Yorker under the name Valeria Cruz

>>17714369
Not him, but:

I haven't seen anyone posting short-stories there, but it could work - just don't expect much traction, especially if you're not writing litRPG/harem/genre-fiction. Save up a batch and release them one at a time on a daily schedule.

As far as the high-end outlets, fuck no. I don't think they'd give one shit. I wasn't even aware of paying genre mags.

>>17714437
Actually since I have a soft voice and my language sounds a lot like Spanish, I think I could reason sell myself as a Latino ftm that speaks some native language

>>17714437
>What if I send something to the New Yorker under the name Valeria Cruz
That's a good first step. You also want your story to be set in some bizarre story-book world of effete poverty, like when you were a kid you'd all go down to the river in a horsebuggy and your *madre* would hum gentle hymns about feminism while doing laundry in the river as the children collected raspberries and greens for lunch.

>>17713028
You're putting the cart before the horse. If you force the characters and plot to follow a rigid map even when it no longer makes sense, then it'll show. It'll feel contrived. Struggling to get through something is a sign that it's not going the way it's supposed to.

>>17714437
It's better if you write in as Val Cruz but make the point that your birth name was Valeria and you identify as Val now. Also that the first word you ever spoke was "freedom" and you have constant nightmares because in your past life you were a black girl named Dolores who was raped to death in Virginia

No doubt, now we suspect it, there were many others before - but this was the first to be so obvious that no one, almost no one, could deny its nature. Something so excessive, so gross. The explanation was far-fetched, no doubt, but it was the only plausible one. The woman who found it preferred to remain anonymous. She was rummaging in the attic at her grandmother's house - she was looking for an old wedding veil for her own wedding (For some reason this detail was repeated in almost all chronicles of the event, as if its importance were secret and definitive). The identity and location of the house are also a secret to protect its owners from vandalism, but it is known to be one of many country houses, in a sleepy small town in Castille. Two stories, old brick, dead air in summer afternoons. Drummond speculates - but it is an excessive, unscientific speculation, too poetic for a Cornell PhD, an eternal Nobel candidate, but we can nevertheless forgive him for the odd flight of fancy - that the very atmosphere in the attic, paralyzed in the years, paralyzed in the decades, paralyzed in the heat - contributed in some way to the crystallization / infiltration / appearance of the Promise (the exact nomenclature is still disputed, the exact mechanism unknown).

It was in the middle of an old magazine stack stored in a trunk along with dishes, photos, blankets full of mites. None of the other magazines is suspicious: all of them were published in Spain between 1952 and 1978, all of them confirmed in their existence by the archives at our National Library. The one that interests us is, like many of the time, a 48-page A5 size magazine, double-stapled - we look forward to Taylor's study of the results of the Geiger analysis of these staples finally passing Peer Review and hopefully published before 2024-, with the cover and the 8 inner pages printed four-color.

The cover is occupied by a full-color photo of a model between 20 and 25 years old. The woman - dyed blonde, excessively made up in the style of the 50s, although with subtle stylistic differences that are much better explained in the study (Dewey et al, 2021) published by London College of Fashion - is sitting on a sofa pretending to speak on the phone, glaring into the camera, her mouth and legs ajar, these just enough to show us she's not wearing any underwear. In very large letters, pink and white: EROTIKA, and as a subtitle: The worker's choice.

The most famous element on the cover is undoubtedly the headline, in purple letters that barely contrast with the purple dress that the model is wearing: I WAS THE LANDLORD’S ANAL SLAVE - and as a subtitle in smaller white letters: "First part of the shocking serial - by Socorro T. López". The other headlines ("ERIKA: HER INTIMACIES", "A JOURNEY TO DARKEST OKAVANGO", "BOARDING SCHOOL SHOCKING EXPOSÉS" and "THE SOVIETS’ MISILES: Is Moscow aiming for the race of Rome and Washington?") are not as interesting.

>>17714604
Yeah, it's a bad habit of mine though the first draft of the plot was pretty free of planning and now I'm stupidly mostly stuck with it.
I'm currently trying to fix it but it's pretty hard since I really want to keep the meaning and emotional impact it had on my head once I put it on the page.

>>17714760
I've run into that problem before. Have you considered taking some time away from the story to work on other things? That distance might help you realize what is and isn't working.

>>17714785
I've only come back recently to work seriously on it, though.

>>17714734
>still waiting for the fucking point

This is a really spicy thread lol

>>17714887
about the same as every /wg/ thread

>>17712896
This. It's fine with proportions. The first 2 paragraphs were fine as is. Beyond that it became pointless nonsense.

>>17713329
Masterpieces! All of them!

>start reading PubTips
>every thread on there is basically "publishers only want generic fantasy or YA novels that are 100k words or less, and anything else WILL be rejected".
Fuck my life. Maybe I'll have to start self publishing.

>>17715080
Are you being for real?

>>17713825
1. A Nubian acolyte gets a dream about a warlord and treks through Eygpt and the Middle East to find him.

2. Filipino action story about killing pirates

3. A post apocalyptic sci fi about a girl robot left behind by mankind - only to rediscover that mankind has gone crazy

4. A fairytale about an old man in Germania protecting a baby girl destined to save the country.

>>17715080
Are they really masterpieces?

>>17715339
I thought the standard advice on there is that YA is a really small market right now. Unless you mean to say that the advice is YA should be under 100k, which is true enough. What are you writing anon?

>>17715339
Publish online and commission an artist from Deviantart for a cover picture. Type “Commision an artist deviantart” on your browser.

Would like some feedback on my idea.
My story is made up of two plots, one that happens in the past, and one that happens in the present, but I'm trying to keep the fact that they're not happening at the same time secret from the reader until a reveal moment.
The past plotline is written in third person, but I wanted a way to differentiate it from the present plotline without necessarily spoiling the twist I mentioned earlier, so I thought I might take a risk and and write the the 'present' plotline in first-person.

So I have a past plotline in third person, and a present plotline in first person. What do you guys think of this idea? Would it be just bad, confusing, etc? I really want to push ahead and see how it pans out, because one of the twists I have in mind is that it's not just a perspective change for no reason, but that the narrator of the present plotline is also narrating the past plotline - but doing it in the third person because it's not about him.

>>17715816
>but I'm trying to keep the fact that they're not happening at the same time secret from the reader until a reveal moment.
This is basically just Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors isn't it?

>>17715840
I don't know, but if something similar has been done before I feel much better about it

>>17715816
>I really want to push ahead and see how it pans out

That's about all you can do.

As for whether or not it's a good idea that's more of a question of what these plot-lines are/what you're making in the first place. I think I casual readership might be put-off (simply because it is part-way out of the norm) but if you're doing a literary thing it's a bit more permissible.

>>17715887
I would say it's more literary. Honestly, how I write something is as important to me as what I write.

>>17711407
i like it

>>17715648
YA is a small market except when it isn't. I think in physical sales the Hunger Games prequel from last year outsold all the rest of YA combined. But Hunger Games is reaching the end of its rope and publishers think there's space in the market for something new. They're willing to make some lotto tickets out of debut authors because the ultimate prize of winning the YA market with a chart-topping novel is huge sales and Hollywood money. Litfic's rewards are more evenly distributed but also publishers can be much more selective about who they pick. Adult readers care more about the identity of the author, whereas kids only care about how much the novel itself appeals to them, for the most part.

>>17709572

Man, writing short profiles is pain but I need them for reference because I'm asking a friend for help.
It's helping me iron out some issues with the lore and the timeline because these are all things I've been keeping inside my head until now but I wish I could get into writing dialogue and scenes already.

Also, I have to give kudos to kids because I have no idea how they do it. How do you put together the lore from stuff like Star Wars, Transformers, He-man, etc. into a cohesive enough unit at that age?

>>17716423
>Star Wars, Transformers, He-man, etc. into a cohesive enough unit at that age?

They start with an idea and just make shit up as they go. No, seriously. They just write and fill in gaps as they come up. If it's magic, it's fucking magic.

>>17716499
I'm trying to tap into this power while trying to make something that can be seen from the outside.
Wish me luck, bros.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/36209/burgerpunk-pizza-time/chapter/642677/its-perfectly-legal

It's a short one, but at least it's something.

>>17716145
Thanks you. : )

r8 my scribble lads

Thanks for the thread!

For a story about the nature of the human condition, particularly from a standpoint of biology and anthropology, which themes do you think should be touched upon or explored in depth?

>>17717157
food, sex, shelter, culture

>>17717157
the quantity of tribute they pay towards absolutely nothing

>>17717157
religion

I'm mad bros. I want the honeymoon period where I was thinking about my novel for hours every day back

>>17716809
I’ll r8 if you r8 mine

>>17716809
I’ll r8 if you r8 mine,

>>17713329

>>17717157
what sets humans apart from other animals is their capacity for advanced critical thinking derived from their ability to extensively manipulate the environment derived from their articulate hand anatomy derived from primates' treeclimbing-oriented locomotion

>>17717157
The distinction between biology and anthropology. How the things we perceive as human 'nature' aren't really as innate as we think they are and are generally a result from how a given society functions, not necessarily a set of rules applicable to all humans. How >>17717175 is biological in necessity but >>17717244 isn't. I think fleshing out that fine line would be interesting because, in the end, it's inconsequential to the material world.

>>17717299
think about the honeymoon period when you finally finish it. also post excerpt

>>17717316
i will. give me a few hours

>>17716809
Brilliant m8
Flows just right. It seems like an excerpt from a completed pro book.
How much of this story have you written?

What's the best way to go about sitting and writing? Particularly the boring parts like compiling the lore you've come up with.
I'm just sitting down and writing shit down but I suspect I could go about it in a better way somehow.

>>17717437
Maybe try a software like roamresearch so you can make a hyperlinked mind map of all the stuff you are cross referencing?

>>17716809
>Despite the warnings
cut

the way I encounter the second paragraph's first sentence's "and" feels like an "and in turn" rather than a "both X and Y"

>The first few weeks was
first few weeks were

>when he learned other beat him to it
this sounds like it applies to all three of the things you mentioned, a conjunction might help/"when" could be "after"

>so he would work at the diner table instead?
the soapiness here isn't that believable

>in the middle of the night
each night

the toys and salt and soap aren't too believable or even that compelling: most of these don't seem like that great a way to save money and they're all so middle-of-the-road (still using salt, but just slightly less) that I'm not terribly shaken; it almost reads like a satirical inconvenience, like maybe the wife can only afford maybe seven colors of nail polish now, boo hoo

>and then they all lived happily ever after
eh

not that anon, don't have work in the thread

>>17716809
>>17717474
also, "others beat him to it," not "other"

>>17716809
Got me interested all the way through and the flow was nice at the first paragraph.

There, I r8ted, lol

>>17712662
>>17712846
the blinds/his window/and look would all sound better to me, and the other anon already caught the typo

>David replied aloof
cut

>gonna party
cut or maybe move after David's name

>pointed at the screen
you said there was a stain where the TV used to be?

>massaging it across his forehead
put this inside commas

>his glock
>his glock
just say "the glock" the second time

>and made his way
while making his way

>his fridge
the fridge, comma after

you have a lowercase David afterwards and it should probably just be a pronoun; the line it's in is pretty bad overall

I just don't care about any of this

>>17716809
There’s a few things I’d change to make it flow better but good over all. It is clear and keeps you hooked. It better not have a “good” ending.

Can someone critique my Filipino action story? I need opinions soon.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tS2h7VLCdcXCmwmyzOFg94aHWL9TuYmkVF2FP-X6mto/edit?usp=sharing

>>17716592
This is the part where the little kid says "just use your imagination" and then you break into a Disney song-and-dance number about releasing your inner child

>>17716809
I don't get it. What's with the strangers/employees? Were you trying to pull some kind of "wife was actually supporting the family by doing whoring on the side"? Cause that's the only angle I can read into the story, and if so, it's a letdown

The language, flow, rhythm, etc are all good, but the story lacks actual plot

>>17717474
>most of these don't seem like that great a way to save money and they're all so middle-of-the-road (still using salt, but just slightly less)
au contraire, they're the most believable part of the story. I don't think you've ever actually had to scrimp, have you?

When you try to break up a narrative into simple essentials, which basic ideas are you left with?

Format, Genre, Audience
Premise, Dramatic question, Theme
Character, Setting, Plot
Protagonist, Deuteragonist, Antagonist
Setup, Development, Resolution
Agent, Goal, Obstacle
Scene, Chapter, Act

???

>>17713329
do people really waste their time like this?

>>17709572
if I have no experience writing, is it better to start with poetry or prose?

>>17717730
>if I have no experience writing
should probably start with the alphabet, a pencil, and a piece of paper.

>>17717739
good one, are you able to answer the question or not?

>>17717730
That depends entirely on which you want to write.

>>17717744

>>17717730
>>17717744
How about you leave and don't waste any of our time with your inane questions?

>>17717730
You mean verse or prose, of course.

>>17717727
Were they really that bad?

>>17717771
You weren't trolling? Good god.

>>17717748
>>17717749
>>17717755
I'll reword the question.
Is advisible to practice poetry and get a feel for it before beginning to write prose? or is starting off with prose fine?

>>17717776
How about you read the OP and find the answer there instead of expecting others to do it for you.

>>17717774
People post shit like that and are 100% serious, like they're actually looking for feedback on that kind of stuff. It's amazing. You just know it's some 18 year old retard.

>>17717776
Why would you practice one thing just to abandon it and start something else from scratch?

>>17717785
I don't know what's worse: That, or the fact that there are some in this thread that are trying to write as if they're in the 19th century. Is this why the whole meme of Animefags making any significant contributions in these threads are becoming real?

>>17717779
I'm reading the books recommended to me in the OP. Am I not allowed to ask questions in the writing general?
>>17717788
idk maybe to practice writing. it seems like there's a few authors who have published works in both, so I was wondering if it was a good idea to practice and learn both to get better at prose. or maybe it's a waste of time to practice poetry if I wanna learn prose, that's why I'm asking in this thread.

>>17716679
This is fantastic anon, thanks I'll share it with some buds.

>>17717774
Fine, they sucked. But which sucked the least?

>>17717420
that's the entire story. also i don't know if you're being sarcastic, but thanks anyway

>>17717474
all great points, thank you. i'll work on it

>>17717500
thanks for reading anon

>>17717572
>There’s a few things I’d change
would you care to mark them at least?
>It better not have a “good” ending.
i thought about doing that at first and i agree with you.

>>17717656
>whoring on the side
no, it was from the children's perspective. when we had to sell our house, prospective buyers would come in and look around and i didn't like that.
i can see your point though now that i read it again.
>the story lacks actual plot
noted.
>au contraire, they're the most believable part of the story.
eh, i have to agree with the other guy. suddenly going from having a car to scrimping for soap is not very believable, especially without enough explanation or a sense of time in-between.

>>17717820
They all sucked equally.

>>17717815
>idk maybe to practice writing
Anon, listen. Verse and prose are not the same thing. If you want to learn prose, you need to practice prose. You don't train for pole-vaulting by learning the piano, you know?

>>17717836
aight, I understand. thanks anon.

>>17717837
Thanks for the feedback, anon.

>>17717848
If it makes you feel any better, it was definitely better than this story >>17710119

>>17717623
Why is it in your trash?

>>17715614
No.

>>17715339
Good stories always get recognized if the start is remotely captivating. So far, 90% of starts I read here is either long boring descriptions of the setting or random conversations that have nothing to do with the concept of the story.

>>17715816
But is the concept good? Are we getting sidetracked by going back and forth?

>>17716679
Chapter 14 was great, I was wondering where the plot was going. Then I realized it was chapter 14 and decided to read chapter 1. Chapter 1 was soooooo boring. I'm not sure what you're aiming for with the overall story, but I hope it's more like chapter 14.

>>17716809
Nice premise, but what is the fucking business?! I wasn't as captivated as I could have been. I'd love to know his thought processes while he's figuring shit out.

>>17717623
I didn't feel the action in 30 whole seconds. So I stopped. I don't care about descriptions of random shit! I want the action! My monkey brain could have just clicked on any random YouTube video during that time!

>>17717669
Depends on the genre.
For non slice of life/philosophical/comedy the most important things are the premise, the theme and the point of the story.

>>17717860
Thanks, anon.

>>17717883
Because it sucked. I change my mind.

>>17717898
You'll get better with time, so leave with this experience in some negative light. As long as you don't become a pretentious pseudo-intellectual, and write like you're in the 19th century, you'll be decent one day.

>>17717918
I’ll keep that in mind. Again, a genuine thanks, anon.

desu, i feel like writing a story with my MC's name as Pokemon Jones, but I feel like it's taken already.

>>17717959
Are you just going to keep ignoring all the feedback you get on how retarded that name is? This is like fourth thread you keep saying this. Just fuck off.

>>17717819
Thanks, anon! I appreciate it.
>>17717892
>Chapter 14 was great, I was wondering where the plot was going. Then I realized it was chapter 14 and decided to read chapter 1. Chapter 1 was soooooo boring. I'm not sure what you're aiming for with the overall story, but I hope it's more like chapter 14.
I've been using it to test out different styles and methods. Not all the chapters are actually connected. I'm sorry you found chapter 1 so boring. I'm not really sure how to pinpoint or fix that.

>>17717964
lol i'm not that anon, i just think it's funny as shit every time he posts that.

>>17717976
Sorry, but shit like that pisses me off. Get genuine feedback and continue to ignore it.

>>17717933
Good luck, then.

>>17717965
How’s the Royalrod been treating you?

What sets apart engaging quest goals from uncompelling ones?

>>17717546
thanks for the tips man, you're a ten.

>>17718034
How much the reader cares about characters and plot?

>>17718034
STAKES

>>17717883
Never mind I resurrected it. It’s more legend than action story really

>>17718032
I think the digital medium is interesting. Being able to embed images and stuff within the text is fun and I get to pretend to be like all those post modern writers and their gimmicks. It's neat to see stats on views and such. RR is more of a neat little thing to throw work on so I can share it with you guys. I'm not particularly interested in tailoring my writing to the popular genres on that website. I like the fact that there are a few anons on here that'll comment/crit. I unno. What I write wouldn't really be going anywhere or doing anything otherwise.

>>17718034
Compelling narration

>>17718066
Would you recommend it to others?

>>17718066
I'd post on RR ut I hate that you have to write a synopsis and use an image for your work. It's like dude, I just want to post my plain text senpai.

>>17717546
okay I've corrected most of this
>"messaging it across his forehead"
what is the rule as to why this goes into commas? (for future reference)
>I just dont care about any of this
this is understandable, I hope to finish my first draft to get an idea for the universe that this is, I know I probably shouldnt write improvised but I find it introspective and anything I can do with it afterwards is a bonus.

>>17718081
>I just want to post my plain text senpai
Shit like this is why the animefags are surpassing you.

>>17718075
I was lazy about it, so I don't really know what other platforms are like. I can't really whole heartedly recommend it, but I also can't tell you it's not worth it. Try it yourself with some experimental writing or something not serous.
>>17718081
After the initial approval you can throw up whatever you want. For a while I just had the book title as the image.

>>17718096
>initial approval

How long does that take? Does every chapter need to get approved?

>>17718106
It was like a day/few hours. It was just the initial first chapter. Every other chapter can go up whenever you want.

>>17718119
Any restrictions?

>>17717823
>it was from the children's perspective
That... wasn't clear at all. It sounded more like the wife's perspective.

>when we had to sell our house, prospective buyers
That wasn't clear either.

>suddenly going from having a car to scrimping for soap is not very believable, especially without enough explanation or a sense of time in-between.
I assumed you were speaking from experience. If it wasn't, then good job projecting, because it's a more common practice than most people think... because most people are consumerist numbnuts.

>>17718066
>Being able to embed images and stuff within the text is fun
I see it as a failure of writing if one has to resort to images.

>Kinda want to do a review swap on RR
>Most of potential reviewers are sword and sorcery writers so good critique is unlikely as they'll probably force themselves to read sci fi.
>Not to mention the lack of any rpg numbers, classes and all that.

>>17718137
>I see it as a failure of writing if one has to resort to images
Never knew Alice in wonderland was a failure of writing.

>>17718137
>I see it as a failure of writing if one has to resort to images.
Is my post a failure?

>>17718137
>I see it as a failure of writing if one has to resort to images.
I was just having fun with it. I made banner ads of the book imitating the banner ads of the website. Not like it's a comic now or anything. Modifying the medium is neat.
>>17718133
Probably? You have to check a box for different content warnings.

>>17718137
>I see it as a failure of writing if one has to resort to images
What an absolute dogshit take.

>>17718159
>I was just having fun with it. I made banner ads of the book imitating the banner ads of the website. Not like it's a comic now or anything. Modifying the medium is neat.
Ignore him, anon, don’t let his shit talk get to you.

>>17717656
>This is the part where the little kid says "just use your imagination" and then you break into a Disney song-and-dance number about releasing your inner child
But my protagonist is a child soldier that gets groomed into a new terrorist group every week......

>>17718192
>But my protagonist is a child soldier that gets groomed into a new terrorist group every week
Ain’t no one going to read that depressing story.

>>17718151
There's a difference between illustrating a story, and relying on a picture to tell part of a story.

>>17718152
>meme
Objectively, yes. Memes are by definition the lowest common denominator of the Internet, don't you know?

>>17718159
>Not like it's a comic now or anything
That's part of the problem. I'm not elitist, I like comics. But we start using images in our novels, they end up being precisely that, and not novels. The artistic role of prose in this day and age of widespread audio-visual entertainment is precisely in its ability to deliver a customised experience - everything springs out from your own interpretation of the words, your imagination, not what some artist depicts.

And messing around with that subtracts more than adds to the formula... IMHO.

>Modifying the medium is neat
Perhaps one day someone will incorporate images into a prose novel in a way that actually contributes to the medium, but I don't see it happening anywhere yet. Have fun trying though, no harm in that.

>>17718197
That's how I would describe it in the least amount of words and the most reductive way possible but I'm not writing it to be all that depressive.
The more depressing parts are how she keeps losing every major arc end fight and how the good guys keep getting their asses kicked for the majority of the story.

>>17718192
No worries, she'll just be a brave coloured Resistance fighter raging against the Patriarchy of Man... I'm thinking a remix of Salil al-Sawarim x One Jump Ahead

>one jump ahead of the breadline
>one swing of my blessed sword
>saleelul sawarim nasheedul ubah
>wa darbul qitaly tariqul haya

>>17718230
Ah, sorry then.

>>17718137
>>when we had to sell our house, prospective buyers
>That wasn't clear either.
this isn't part of the story. it was my own experience about having strangers in the house

>>17718203
>There's a difference between illustrating a story, and relying on a picture to tell part of a story
Now you’re just moving the goalposts.

I finally figured it out bros

You just mash the words out so you can get a scene out then you edit it later

>>17718292
And you needed to tell us this why?

>>17718292
woah.

>>17711134
How often does this actually happen? I’ve notice that this mindset has been increasing.

>>17718298
I broke an empty bottle of whiskey against the wall and i need to justify it somehow

>>17718314
Don’t. We ain’t your blog.

>>17718317
Don't say we

>>17718253
....so, if you don't mind me asking, who the fuck ARE the strangers in the story?!?!

I have to admit I am somewhat thrown here. I think you write okay and have some decent experiences or at least imagery to draw on, somehow, but you need to seriously flesh out what your story is about, what you're trying to say, and what each line is supposed to mean.

>>17718288
Can you quantify that? Or it just going to be a "no u" and run?

>>17718334
There’s nothing wrong with adding images in stories, don’t be such a fucking elitist. There’s various ways to tell a story, don’t stifle others.

>>17718334
>who the fuck ARE the strangers in the story?!?!
the employees, anon. they are newly hired. the parents know this of course but you should expect children to be somewhat put off. think of when your parents brought their friends to come over. they are strangers that you (the kids) have never met before, and you can hear their unfamiliar voice in your home.

was anyone else confused by that line?

i will change "strangers in the house" to "strangers in the garage"

>>17718337
>There’s various ways to tell a story
Of course there are, I can name them too: comic, play, television series, movie...

>>17718357
>Being this obtuse

>>17718353
>was anyone else confused by that line?
Yeah, I kinda was.

>>17718366
alright, good to know

>>17718353
I think you might need to forgive the readers a bit more. Since the people who are going to read your story, I assume, are going to either be adolescents or adults, and might not understand the mindset, even though it makes perfect sense in-story.

>>17718377
I suggest reading stories told from childrens' POVs to see how it's done right.

>>17718377
noted
>forgive the readers a bit more
honestly i find myself caught between "trust your readers' intelligence" and "your readers can't read your mind" and "your readers need handholding"
what do you think?

>>17718379
not the entire story is from the childrens' POV by the way, only that part and some.

>>17709572
how strange it is
to write in ink
the only thoughts
i'll ever think

>>17718383
>"your readers can't read your mind" and "your readers need handholding"
>what do you think?
The last two. No matter what the readers say, they can't read your mind and need some handholding. While no doubt, there's going to be a minority who will have the intelligence, they will be drown out by those who don't. It's the same problem I'm having in my story.

>>17718392
appreciate your thoughts

>>17718383
>"your readers can't read your mind" and "your readers need handholding"
>what do you think?

If you think hard about what is the most fundamental problem of writing, you'll see clearly why this is the answer.

>>17718395
It's why /wg/ exist, anon.

>>17718379
>childrens' POVs to see how it's done right.
Children's POV is rarely done right. Some writers just make them out to be nothing more than smaller adults.

>>17718390
beautiful. this made me cry.

>>17718416
Max Brooks' did a good kid's perspective segment in WWZ.

>she's actually a smoking hot Downie, 20 years old with the mental age of 5
>emphasis on smoking hot
>what did he mean by this

>>17718423
>Max Brooks
God, don't remind me about him. He's such a fucking hack.

>>17718423
>Downie
Isn't some analogue for feral children?

>>17718383
>honestly i find myself caught between "trust your readers' intelligence" and "your readers can't read your mind" and "your readers need handholding"
>what do you think?
It’s always the latter two and never the former.

>>17718433
He is, but even fucking hacks can do a decent job, maybe once, and then never pull another again.

In his case, WWZ and the zombie prepper guidebook are kinda alright, if one tries not to think too hard about the "this is how military should be!" moronity. But hey we already do that with Heinlein's Troopers.

>and ignore the sequels
>such as the vampires vs zombies segment
>cringe

>>17718444
Not feral, the kid was saved at the end. IINM the idea is that the trauma of the zombie attack made the kid retarded? I dunno. I just found it weird, in hindsight all these years later, that he emphasised how totally fuckable this mentally-5yo young woman is. Maybe it adds to the pathos, or maybe it's just creepy...

>>17718458
>>and ignore the sequels
>>such as the vampires vs zombies segment
>>cringe
Fucking hell, I was just starting to forget.

>>17718458
>Not feral, the kid was saved at the end. IINM the idea is that the trauma of the zombie attack made the kid retarded? I dunno. I just found it weird, in hindsight all these years later, that he emphasised how totally fuckable this mentally-5yo young woman is. Maybe it adds to the pathos, or maybe it's just creepy...
It was supposed to be about children growing up without parents or anyone else. It’s happened a few times in our world. But he still butchered it.

>skip ahead to a new scene because the current one's hard
>ended up rewriting the scene tonight instead of making progress

I think I'm fucked

>>17717918
Isn't it a bit pretentious to portray yourself the arbiter of what is or isn't """"pseudointellectual""""?

>>17718480
Everyone knows what a pseudointellectual writes. So, I'm not a arbiter on that front.

>>17718471
Ah right. Ferals it is then. But I distinctly recall the 5yo-brain-in-20yo-body bit so it's both then isn't it? Do ferals ever get better?

>>17718480
>t.pseudointellectual

>>17718390
I stood and clapped

>>17718499
i recall at least one case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Chapman

>>17718499
>Do ferals ever get better?
No. The ones that do are extremely rare, most grow up and be impaired for the rest of their life.

>>17718489
I knew you were going to appeal to authority. Just wanted to see you actually do it. Do you know what you're saying is bullshit or do we need to have a talk about it?

>>17718507
Ah. Well, one of those then. Still...

>sssmoking hot yo

>>17718517
Have morals, anon.

>>17718511
Okay, anon, please explain to me why trying to imitate writing from the 19th century and early 20th century is not pseudointellectual

>>17718502
I think there's also that Ukrainian girl, but I think she came out and said that it was dramatize.

>>17718526
Why would I defend that? Take your meds.

>>17718537
Every time.

>>17718478
Should have just hunkered down and just write.

>>17718539
Have fun burning down your straw men, I guess.

>>17718531
found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxana_Malaya
>Years later, Oxana admitted on a Russian talk show that her story was slightly less dramatic; neglected by her parents, she sought out the company of the dogs and learned to imitate them as they were more responsive than her parents.

>>17718554
Yeah, that's the one.

>>17718549
It’s okay, anon, you just need to stop being such an elitist.

>>17718554
I think this is the worse one yet, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

>>17718568
> When she was approximately 20 months old, her father began keeping her in a locked room. During this period, he almost always strapped her into a child's toilet or bound her in a crib with her arms and legs immobilized, forbade anyone from interacting with her, provided her with almost no stimulation of any kind, and left her severely malnourished. The extent of her isolation prevented her from being exposed to any significant amount of speech, and as a result she did not acquire language during her childhood.
Shit like this is why fiction will never surpass reality.

>>17718559
Oh quit defending your pseud work of shart, it's like watching a feral child smear poop on the walls and declare it's the pinnacle of modern expressionism or whatever

>>17718145
Supply and demand, anon. It's how the world works.

Any alternatives to royal road?

>>17718589
Spacebattles and Sufficient velocity. There's alternative history.

I published part 2/5 of my thoughts on living in France. If anyone could provide feedback on this installment, that'd be awesome. Also, if you really dig it then subscribing would be amazing. It's hard to build a following on Substack.

>https://goodperson.substack.com/p/france-ii

>>17718620
>>https://goodperson.substack.com/p/france-ii

New
>>17718647
>>17718647

Bump limit reached, made on time. Eat a dick weeb.

>>17718649
One is already made, you idiot. >>17718593

>>17718654
didn't link, sorry, delete that one, you can't make it before the bump limit. learn how to link instead of humping pillows nerd.

>>17718649
You didn’t even check the fucking catalog didn’t you? Jesus fucking Christ, how pathetic. Delete your thread moron.

>>17718661
too late, go write a hentai about how you got beat to it.

>>17718661
Anon, it's standard procedure across 4ch generals to post a link so people know it's made. And there's no need to make a new thread on a slow board unless it's at least comfortably past bump, like say 32x posts

>>17718649
>He samefags.

>>17717623
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tS2h7VLCdcXCmwmyzOFg94aHWL9TuYmkVF2FP-X6mto/edit?usp=sharing
Is there anything I need to know beforehand?

>>17717623
>>17718889
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tS2h7VLCdcXCmwmyzOFg94aHWL9TuYmkVF2FP-X6mto/edit?usp=sharing
I read it, and I really don't have a strong opinion on your story, anon. And I am hesitant in giving you critique since this is clearly written with a foreign culture in mind, a culture I have very little knowledge of. So other than some grammar corrections, I don't know what to offer you.

>>17718383
>"trust your readers' intelligence"
I give this advice sometimes but only in the context of not repeating yourself. A lot of people say the same thing phrased three ways across three sentences and it's just annoying clutter. There aren't many other scenarios that "trust your reader" applies to though

>>17718649
rent free

>>17719663
He made the thread after the anime op made one.

Cum!

>>17719550
got it, thanks

>>17719844
got it, thanks

>>17719993
No... Thank you... I kneel...