/lit/ - Literature

>>1770407

should clarify, the songs i do come up with daily i just hum melodies, i have no words yet for any of them

listen to ignition (remix) by r. kelly every day

>>1770411
Not to be mean, but assembling a melody in your head is probably one of the easiest things to do. Transcribing it to sound as it needs to through an actual instrument is much more difficult, let alone - as you say - writing lyrics to fit it.

I'm not sure how to tell you how to write a song, other than this: You should probably have some sort of emotional response to the notes you come up with (arrangements can obviously be "happier" or "sadder" sounding or whatever it may be). The emotion of the lyrics should should reflect that/those emotion(s) of the tune.

>Transcribing it to sound as it needs to through an actual instrument is much more difficult, let alone - as you say - writing lyrics to fit it.

Whether its melody first or I do a good chord structure on guitar / piano, then just hum, it really doesnt matter how many syllables or words or how quickly or slowly their said, the possibilities are endless and the song will still sound the same, pretty much anyway.

Though I find it way easier to put music to already written lyrics, i try this with mostly other peoples lyrics time and again.

your definitely right about song moods though, you dont even need lyrics to figure out if the song is funny, sad, angry, happy

>>1770440
Oddly enough I'm the opposite way -- Whereas you say putting music to lyrics is easier, it's easier the other way around for me. I've been playing guitar for longer than I've been writing songs, so maybe that has something to do with it.

I guess for each person it works differently with how their mind prefers to assemble things. Establishing the music first on a guitar allows me to work with some kind of meter for the syllables, pace, and tone (or emotion) of the lyrics. A guy can do it the other way around, of course, but I wouldn't know how to go about it :-|

>>1770455
Also, I say this with reference to my first post in that it's relatively easy to come up with a tune. It's more difficult to be able to put that tune together on an instrument. It's then another challenge to put lyrics to that song.

They build upon each other in layers (at least that's how I think of it). The tune comes first, the instrument comes second, and the lyrics come third (IMO). By the time you get to the lyrics, you should have established a meter and some kind of emotional metric to work within.

But it certainly isn't "easy" at any point.

OP: im pretty much gonna vent here because /mu/ sucks and so do all the music boards I've found, /lit/ seems to have a better taste in music

You can have songs that are good enough on there own, like Dylans or mostly all guitar strummers, that dont need any production value as they are straight up decent songs. (I am currently going through a traditional gospel phase and i've realized that this is true with pretty much all traditional songs, including christmas and irish songs, they are good no matter what, unless they are changed drastically, here is my current favourit e recording of my new favourite song deep river by marian andersonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bytFrsL4_4

The Beatles have great production value, (decent but simple instrumental, great backup singing) HELP or Let it Be are good songs acoustically(that is to say, doing them yourself, alone), but are great songs when recorded right, as they are. You can say the same about The Band. The Night They Drove Old Dixie down is a great song on the album, but The Last Waltz version I would have to say is among the best pieces of recorded music, its not only the big changes, like Alan Tousaint's horn arrangements, but the subtleties aswell (their is a part in each verse where robbie repeats the triplets of the lower horn section with three crunches of the guitar, I smile every time I hear it.)

And then there are bad or nearly good songs that solely made great because of the instrumentals, like any hendrix new rising sun, or marley and the wailers it hurts to be alone (i forget that guitarists name, but I have memorized each note he plays)

>>1770455

yeah, on second thought its only easier to put lyrics to music because half the process is done already, and by doing that you dont automatically get better songs, its pretty much hit and miss.

have you ever been inspired by a sudden melody you came up with and decided to put chords to it? I've done it many times but I rarely can keep the memory of the true melody long enough, or I cant find the right chords and give up.

I remember the exact moment I came up with a great song which I thought was original than put it to the exact chords with ease, and even transposed the tune fingerstyle within the chords, my excitement was euphoric.... then I hear this months after http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZquwglAebg
and it is the exact same song, i was fuckin pissed

>>1770462

who i your favourite guitarists?

Musicfag here.

I record myself humming. Something is lost in translation from my mind to the guitar or violin, and so humming is kind of the most naked form I guess.

With a few exceptions, the melody has always come before the lyrics, and it works out really well. Maybe i'll start off with a theme, but it's really organic and ideas are never forced in. Unless I think of a gem to work around, but it never quite works that way.

Words are very very lyrical, even every day ones. People don't realise it, but every single sentence can be sung and made to sound beautiful, so just put the words you want in.

i think i'm a decent songwriter. the best advice i can come up with is to not try to consciously emulate a style or sound-- try some automatic writing, and get to the point where you can express your emotions in an unfiltered way on paper. be uncontrolled. it doesn't even matter if it doesn't make sense. just make it genuine and not contrived.

>>1770522

(the goal in doing this is, hopefully, to come up with something original, innovative and personal instead of it just being an obvious distillation of your influences. work on developing a voice)

>>1770519
also this. especially the last part.

>>1770519

I take such pride in my songs that I feel the need to make my words mean something (its totally gay but I feel the need to be bob dylan when I write), at the very least they need to be worthy of the song itself and Im not there yet. And yeah its really hard to tranpose original tunes from your head or mouth to your guitar or other, unless you have insanely good theoretical knowledge.

>>1770522

I dont try not to do it, but i definitely dont try to, when i sit and come try to make a song, it may be reggae or classic folk, my best ones though are pop or r & b, usually with r & b as its so sporadic its a must to have the melody first, though its hard to nail the instrumental when you try.... like think of A Change is Gonna Come and try to strum to that without looking it up

>>1770525

word, but remember the best people at anything were easily compared to and copied greatly their biggest influences

WH Auden once said the only real way of learning how to write poetry (including song lyrics) was pastiche.

In other words, the first step would be for you to write your own Bob Dylan song or Randy Newman song. This isn't about Weird Al-type parody, where you take a tune and just write new words to fit it. Your goal is to convince people that this is a new Dylan song they've never heard before.

As an exercise, this forces you to look at existing lyrics and think like a writer. It might be better to do a pastiche of Randy Newman, actually---he really is one of those "writer's writers" in lyric writing, other writers are impressed with how simple and economical he can be, and how well he can write a song for a film that does everything it needs to do within the context of the film. That's not easy. Because he's so professional--and because he hasn't got a difficult-to-imitate style---it would probably be a good start.

Since I teach creative writing (including poetry), I'll even give you an assignment if you want one. Look up Randy Newman's "Rednecks". Don't listen to the music if you've never heard it. Now write a contemporary version--replace Lester Maddox with Glenn Beck or Obama or whoever you want. Post it in the thread later, and I'll give you comments if you want.

>>1770615

hey wow, thats great advice, rednecks though is my 2 fav newman song after louisiana 1927, so maybe ill try the same excersize with a different song as i have that one deeply memorized, maybe christmas in capetown, or dayton ohio, i dony like/know those songs as well, but im going to bed now, so this weekend, i will keep this thread alive then givr