/lit/ - Literature

>>17684818
>First Contact
You know, I never really read a book that deals with first contact before. I think I remember one about them contact earth, but I forgot it’s name.

>>17684818
You know, I never really read a book that deals with first contact before. I think I remember one about them contact earth, but I forgot it’s name. You would think they would be a bit more pervasive in the sci-fi community. Like how, Speculative Biology is gaining traction right now. Hell, I even read a short story about the the Big Crunch will end all of existence.

>>17684818
Fuck Bakkerfags, fuck Sanderboys. Fuck fantasy. Sci-fi is superior. Thanks

>>17685064
That's entirely on you. Read Blindsight already.

What is a good science fiction audiobook to drift asleep to? Preferably light on actual plot to make up for the way I'll be jumping all over the timeline, and comfy of xoyrse.

Are the two sequels any good?
I didn't care too much for the human aspect, but I liked Mars and the political stuff.
If someone can recommend a different book that does the same thing well I would also appreciate it

>>17685102
>Fuck Sanderboys

Can someone Redpill me on Brandon Sanderson? I’ve seen some of his works before and I personally think he’s just trying to be another Robert Jordan, he even finished the WOT book.

>>17684818
>>Discord
>No, and stop asking for one
OP is tsundere

>ITS EPIC FANTASY, NOT CHILDREN'S FICTION YOU SLUT!

>>17685439
Second book is 80% people in a buggy thinking about Mars and mars rocks.

>>17685583
kek, you should add the halos around the hands and turn him into kellhus

>>17685630
10 trillion hours in ms pain(t)

>>17685595
Is that a good thing? I like driving around rovers on Mars and thinking about Mars rocks, but if it descends into 60 year olds having steamy sauna sex again I'm out

>>17685716
Ok but remove the hal around his head because I don't remember him ever having one of those

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDVJXYEFSM

"This is such a sexist world, 2 out of 5 stars". Bakkerfags BTFO.

>>17685064
what? a few of the most popular sci-fi books are about first contact, i recommend radevous with rama.

>>17686186
10/10

>>17685583
based desu

>>17686186
lmao

>>17686186
kek saved

>>17686186
OH NO NO NO NO
Bakkerfags we got too cocky

>>17686186
should add in the swearing under his breath. calling her a cunt or whatever.

How dare you traitorous mongrels mock the Holy Aspect-Author.

>>17686754
>when you stand before me at the next zaudunyanicon when I release the next book, you will kneel...

Is John Steinbeck's The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights worth reading?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Acts_of_King_Arthur_and_His_Noble_Knights

>>17686933
only if you hate goodness

So I bought the Belgariad vols 1 and 2 from Barnes and Noble and found them extremely compelling, legitimately some of the most enjoyable fantasy fiction I've ever read. I've ordered the Malloreon so I can read that next.
Three things of import that I noticed:
1. Despite the worldbuilding and narrative being quite shallow in comparison to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings from which it very obviously takes many inspirations, it was far more readable than LOTR because it's structured as an actual series of conventional novels rather than a quasi-Arthurian mythopoiean history, and benefits greatly from the highly developed character relationships that are rather clinically and formally related in Tolkien's work.
2. The parallels between it and the Chronicles of Prydain border on the plagiaristic, however the pacing of Belgariad is far more satisfying compared to the incessant gallop Lloyd Alexander puts you through only to solve every last problem in the last 3 pages, which struck me as patronizing as an Agatha Christie mystery. Eddings seems to be a master of setting things up and delivering on them in the good course of time when they'd strike the reader most effectively.
3. For some reason, the writing style reminds me of Timothy Zahn's Star Wars novels. I can't put my finger on why exactly, but there's a sort of pleasing hypnotic rhythm to both Zahn and Eddings that positively demands your attention and tugs on your emotions in a nearly cinematic fashion.

Anyway, would /lit/ have some recommendations for further fantasy or science fiction (or science fantasy if you want to be really anal retentive about it) in a similar idiom as the Belgariad?

is this series any good?

Is this series any good?

>>17684818
> No, and stop asking for one
IRC?

>>17687522
They're on hotmail messenger

>>17687464
I liked it. Changes a lot after the first book.

Fuck! E William Brown

>>17686933
Its better than most other Arthurian pastiches, but still not as good as The Once and Future King and The Winter King/The Warlord Chronicles.

>>17686186
Does anyone have the template?

It's amazing to me how people talk about the Amazon show possibly "damaging" LotR as a brand and not taking Tolkien's work seriously when this movie was so fucking bad and people worship it. Seriously, if you are in /sffg/ and read Tolkien and like this movie, you are a faggot. It's bad in its own right, but it disrespects the third part of the book so thoroughly that it should be branded as irredeemable trash.
If you think Hackson made good movies, you do not understand Tolkien and you should write a letter of apology to the Tolkien estate.

>>17687736
this, all the pirates of the caribbean bullshit with the dead was an insult to tolkien's work.

>>17687736
I like The Hobbit trilogy by Samuel Jackson because I like dwarfs and they're no movies with warrior dorfs in battle, how does this make you feel?

>>17687764
I liked samuel jackson as well

>>17687764
I sense a great deal of confusion in you, young Skywalker.

How much longer do I need to read about this to figure out if I like it or not? So far it's making me think of urban fantasy and I am not into that at all.
Generally I'd stick with a book until I can judge for myself, but the writing is so bad that i take no pleasure in reading the prose itself. This nigga is writing at fanfic level.

>>17687464
Loved it, esp first 3 books. Book 1 was my fave, but books 2 and 3 still managed to have things happen that kept me interested.

Heard book 4 is whack.

Toot that ass up and kow tow 3 times or I will explode your ass

Guys! Guys!

I'm looking for advice from fellow ESL (and maybe also from inferior Anglos).
How did you find reading fantasy as an ESL? Is it better to stick with your native language or was it easy enough for you to read them in English?
I read some PKD and some fantasy short stories by Moorcock, but I'm not sure if Pratchett isn't too difficult. I read him only in my native language.

>>17684818
I hate how Sanderson writes fight scenes; he always stops the action so that he can hold the scene hostage and spend a dozen lines going on and on about the magic system - which is usually both convulted and ridiculously simplistic at the same time.
It's kind of like if you were watching a movie with your friend, but they kept pausing it every 5 minutes to describe to you what's happening in minutiae detail; it's utterly frustrating.

>>17688254
I prefer them in native, but it depends on translator quality.

>>17687859
This.
I dropped it the first 50 pages. Might come back to it, but the writing was horrible.

>>17687433
Books 1-6 were enjoyable enough, someday I might read more but I kinda think I had my fill.

I'm convinced Bran will be executing someone in A Dream of Spring if only to mirror that opening scene in his first chapter with Eddard instructing him on right and wrongs the question is who will he execute? I'm thinking Tyrion

>>17687859
The writing doesn't improve, Amber is mostly read for its historical importance on D&D and some cool ideas.

>>17687248
Marion Zimmer Bradley, in more ways than you'd think.

You'll be taking the vaccine the Inchoroi have made for us, won't you /sffg/?

>>17688709
Well, that wasn't really my only question. My question was when does it get good?

>>17688792
>a handful of people have side effects to medication
oh woe is me, what a tragedy
lol faggot they used to pull people's teeth out to cure them of illnesses just 100 years ago, get a fucking grip

>>17688809
My bad, didn't think I'd run afoul of the resident tough guy!

>>17685064
The mote in God's eye was a really good read.

>>17688817
that's right you little blonde whore
are you ready for my THICK, BLACK sranc seed?

>>17688792
So what, a few of the Nonwomen and younglings have gotten a little sick from the Inoculation. Why are you such a pussy? I'd much rather have my chances of living guaranteed... I'm sick of this death-plague, frankly, and it would be very nice to not have to worry so much about mortality any more.

>>17685064
Childhoods End

>>17688792
>all over 30
tick tock

>>17688765
>While she is noted for her feminist perspective in her writing, her popularity has been posthumously marred by multiple accusations against her of child sexual abuse and rape by two of her children, Mark and Moira Greyland, and others, and for enabling her husband at the time (who was an admitted pedophile) to abuse and rape multiple unrelated children.
This doesn't sound anything like what I'd be interested in

>>17689016

>>17688792
So the vaccine is a great abortion tool?

>>17689135
yes, its for the elites to kill undesirables. Check out the Georgia Guidestones

>>17686599
I loved reading about Bakker's philosophical ideas on his site (of which I understood maybe 60% of it)

Alright then, bros what do I read next
>Foundation book 1
>Embassytown
>Re-read of Revelation Space
>Diamond Age
>Crime and Punishment. I've been reading so much sci-fi that maybe I should take a break.

>>17686186
I really, really, really, like this picture

>>17689180
>of which I understood maybe 60% of it
I mean, that's a bit on Bakker for not walking you through his thinking with enough steps

>>17688792
All infants were born dead
11 years. Can you imagine? 11 years of nothing but dead!
All men could feel his dread shadow on the horizon!

>>17689249
Me too! Save it, it’s all yours my friend :-)

>>17689180
I definitely recommend Embassytown, really inventive universe and politics that will draw you in to its ideas on alien language

What translation of C&P do you plan on reading? I'm always leaning towards the pevear and volokhonsky one for when I do get around to it, but then there's the Garnett one that's always at my thrift store for $1, or maybe I should quit worrying about the differences and fucking read it already

>>17689611
Heh I'm literally like you when it comes to the translations thing. 1) I own a copy of the McDuff translation 2) It seems to be the case that you should read any translation EXCEPT Garnett. Too outdated. Onto Embassytown for now, thanks. I really liked The City & The City

Damn I wish the camera on my phone worked and I could post a pic. My fortune cookie from today:

>The truth always shines through.

Love you bakkerbros

>>17687464
I found them shallow and pedantic

>>17689705
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpbdGnJbneE

I've decided to start my dive in Tolkien's work, with his most recently published book "The Fall of Gondolin", in audiobook.
So far, it's a bit confusing and feels like it was sewed together.

>>17689866
>feels like it was sewed together.
It was.

>>17689866
> So far, it's a bit confusing and feels like it was sewed together
that’s because you’re a filthy audiocuck who can’t read the printed word like a human being

>>17689878
Honestly, Christopher could have done a better work, in synthesising his father's multiple versions and bit of the story, and create a more coherent tale. But I guess that wasn't really his intention.

>>17689882
STFU.
I bet you don't even know the structure of the presented book, and how anomalous it appears.

>>17689866
Did Tolkein even write the later books in the LOTR universe? I've always been under the impression that Tolkein only wrote LoTR, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion. Every other story-I assumed was some bastardized mismatch simply using his name for profits

>>17689940
His son had been working with his father's letters, earlier versions of the stories, and other tales that were set aside or couldn't fit in the other main books, and published them.

what's good by Roger Zelazny

>>17690010
Lord of Light.

>>17690012
thx

>>17690010
Damnation Alley

thoughts on this?
is anyone watching the tv series?

>>17688254
It was draining at first but I got completely used to it after a few books.

>>17690320
>>17688254
Oh and yeah it's always better to read the original instead of the translation.

>>17688975
Underated

>>17690173
tv show was ok

Best books with amazons?

>no Yerin x Simon
uooohhhhh

>>17690618
why did you have to post this

>>17690672
manlet d e t e c t e d

>>17690672
It's an image board. I try to post images and videos to spice it up.

>>17690618
i came

What should the max amount of books in a fantasy series be?

>>17690825
Seven.

I was thinking about reading the Dark Tower, does it have the sffg seal of approval?

>>17690825
i shudder at the logical chain of conclusions this question leads to. it is profane.

>>17690832
NO-GOD WHEN

>>17690825
Zero.
SF Chads where we at?

>>17690891
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will publish, and not before.
Oops, quoted the wrong washed-up has-been.

>>17690832
;(

>>17690891
Check out a couple of interviews he did in 2017 with How Stuff Works. He definitely wants to write this third series, but he doesn't even know what is going to happen, and has to plot it all out first. For all of Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor he had most plot beats planned out from the very beginning. Also, he wants to first write another Disciple Manning novel and/or another sci fi standalone, the name of which he mentioned in the interview but escapes me now.

/sffg/, my friends and foes alike have agreed that my writing is dogshit. I'm not sure what to do now

I can't kill myself yet, but I don't have anything to look forward to

>>17691136
read more, a lot more, a lot of non-sff stuff, and poetry
then try, try again
and if you still really do suck at it and have no talent at all, maybe try your hand at another creative medium, like painting or music.

>>17691145
I know for a fact I'm not cut out for those. I don't really think trying again will make a difference either.

fuck it. I really had my heart set on this

>>17691136
Become a book reviewer like everyone else who sucks at writing

>>17691207
honestly, I'm not super interested in reading anymore. maybe I'll just use free time to get extra sleep

>>17690841
Starts out fun, then goes bad halfway through and the ending is dog shit. .

So is the “No-God” in the room with us right now, Kellhus?

>>17690618
Impressive that she did that while wearing heals.

>>17691369
head on a stake behind me

>>17690825
3. A trilogy is all you need. Because if if three books is all Tolkein needed, then threw books is all you need

>>17691496
*pole

>>17691369
>He speaks to me
>then you truly are mad..

>>17691670
LoTR is six books

books with this aesthetic?

>>17691986
If visual novels count then read Muv Luv
https://vndb.org/v92

Any books that go in-depth about vtubers?

>>17691786
>he says 'from my poinnt of view, the jedi are evil' to me
>"then you truly are lost.."

you know what would be dope

an application that functions like Google Maps, but for your own fantasy worlds.

>>17690010
Creatures of Light and Darkness.

>>17692351
This will happen in the next few decades.

>>17692056
nah I tried it but you have to play 50 hours of generic dating sim to get to the mechas

>>17687248
I tried reading the first book once but I couldn't get over the generic fantasy stuff. Might try again after reading this post. Also is Prydain shit or good?

>>17692303
Moenghus:

You have allowed this Darkness to twist your mind until now... until now you have become as blind as the worldborn, exactly what our order sort to destroy

Anakin Skywalker:
Don't lecture me father. I see through the lies of the Dunyain. I do not fear the consult as you do!

Kellhus
Are you going to kill me?

Cnauir
I would certainly like to.

Kellhus
I know you would. I can *feel* your anger. It gives you focus, makes you stronger.

>>17692568
>>17692584
Only a Dûnyain deals in the Absolute!

>>17691986
Warhammer or starcraft shit probably

>>17692497
I sure hope so

How are the HALO books? Are they just for edgy teenagers, or are they actually good sci-fi books?

>>17687736
Guess that makes me a faggot. You gonna suck my cock?

>finally became interesting 200 pages in
I can see why people say Mass Effect took a lot of inspiration from it.

>>17690841
1 and 4 are decent. 2 and 3 are weapons grade shlock. 5 is bad and I never finished 6

>>17685064
Blindsight, Contact, Solaris, Story of Your Life

>>17691986
There are dozens of novels in the universe that art is from.

>>17692557
Prydain is very nice but it has two problems that I really dislike.

The first is that the pacing is bad - there is never any time for the reader to rest and take things in when the action slows down, it's always running at lightning speed to the next plot point, with no satisfying conclusion until the very end of the very last book, very much like a pulp serial; think Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom series - John Carter doesn't get 3 minutes alone with Dejah Thoris without being accosted by some villainous monster trying to kidnap her until the last 3 pages of the third novel, and the reader doesn't get 3 minutes of slow-paced world-building to actually take in the constructed universe Burroughs creates, it's all part of the action and the action is non-stop. Prydain is even worse in this regard because it's an outright bildungsroman which seemingly has very dull and introspective moments like dwelling in a dungeon or feeding a bird or learning pottery that are nevertheless still somehow written as if they're the most suspenseful action sequences you've ever read and you're on a countdown to doomsday.

The second is the actual conclusion of the series which builds off the previous complaint: it happens too, too fast. There is an equivalent amount of significant plot events to the entire second half of Tolkien's Return of the King - i.e. Aragorn and the peoples of the West assail the Black Gate while Frodo and Sam cross Mordor to destroy the ring, and succeed in doing so, and all the happy endings happen and the bittersweet farewells as Elrond and Gandalf and Frodo etc leave Middle-Earth - IN NOT EVEN TEN PAGES. I shit you not. And these are fairly short pages with a large typeface as a children's book has, not the dense walls of text of a Michael Crichton paperback. The bad guy's castle is assaulted, his magic dispelled, his evil obliterated for all time in the space of about 3-4 pages. The denouement where the hero goes back home and tries to live a simple life with his fair maiden while the forces of magic and mystery leave the mortal world happens in about 4-5 pages. The rapidity with which this series races to tie up loose ends feels painfully contrived, and it would have benefitted from just a tad more relaxation and explanation at the end instead of just telling you to deal with it so matter-of-factly.

This is why I compared Belgariad to Prydain so positively - Belgariad is effectively the exact same series but the previous two complaints are absent.

>>17690010
His "Agnostic's Prayer":

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say,
I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or
failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but
something else may be required to insure any possible benefit for which you
may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever
it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to
insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected
intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which
may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible
for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by
this ceremony. Amen.

>>17692907
if you want a halfway decent military scifi series try the Star F.I.S.T series by David Sherman and Dan Cragg. Very gung ho but both authors are retired USMC sergeant majors so at least they know what they are talking about.

I just finished this. Are the Brian Herbert books worth my time?
Haven't read scifi in a long time but this was a great ride. I think 5 is my favorite, but I suspect 4 would be even better the second time through.

>no autistic youtuber who only makes videos about bakker's books and lore
This is your chance, /sffg/

>>17695187
damn this is true. huge opportunity

>>17695220
Booba girl should do it

>>17695187
>devote your entire career to a single 7 book universe
gee what a great opportunity

Rate my poem guys:

My love for you is like a truck, Bakker
Would you like some making fuck, Bakker
My love for you is like a rock, Bakker

The Bakker is just so obscene
Likes evil people you know what I mean
He takes your soul and then just rips you apart
He'll steal your heart

Would you like to smoke some pot, Bakker
My love for you is ticking clock, Bakker
Would you like to suck my cock, Bakker
Would you like some making fuck, Bakker

Is it just me, or is the writing in the Cradle series really bad?
The prose is awful. Everything is either overexplained or too vague, and the actual plot is paper thin.
Action scenes are a hit or miss, some are excellentlly described and some I can barely imagine due to the awakard or vague word choice that the author uses. (Yerin vs the bandits in the mountains is a great example)
I heard this was supposed to be good...when does it get good? Book 1 was decent and carried by the premise alone, but book 2 is a slog with no redeeming qualities so far

Kharkanas book 3 fucking when Erikson?

>>17695963

I have finished the main series this year, and also the Malazan empire, and path to ascendancy. I fear that I am a basic bitch because this is the best series I have ever read. The Chain of dogs.. my god, what an emotional roller coaster. The Bone Hunters end... Kharakanas worth it? I almost want to go back and re read the main series again...

Also am I a basic bitch for this being the best fantasy I have ever read?

didn't some anon get a hardcopy of The Killing Star and promise to scan and upload it last year?

>>17696034
even though I disagree with your opinion Malazan isn't normie enough for it to make you a basic bitch. Most people get filtered.

>>17695773
>this was supposed to be good
Bro...

>>17696034
>Also am I a basic bitch for this being the best fantasy I have ever read?
No, it really is that good. Probably not the best, but definitely one of them.

>kharkanas worth it
Depends if you like long winded Jaghut rants on civilization, depressed Tiste discussing oaths and Rake running from responsibility because of his mummmeee issues. I personally really enjoyed them.
They're much slower paced than most other Malazan books, with far less banter. Dathenar and Prazek kill it though.
Also civil war, Azathenai murdering each other and bad parenting.

>>17694957
the general consensus is that Brian Herbert should be sent to prison for what he did to his father's legacy.

Yo a nigga bout finna read Phantastes, what should I expect/know going in?

>>17695773
good only in comparison to other chinkshit/chinkshit-inspired fantasy. i thought they were pretty fun but definitely not particularly well written. If youve read more in the genre and see how bad the competition is you might have a different opinion. To be fair there are less than 5 fantasy authors i consider actually good so idk what you expect.

>>17689180
Foundation 1, a women is only briefly described in the first three or so chapters. The only talking female is a dumbass manipulative bitch towards the end of the book. (Foundation 2/3 are bretty good dont go past 3)

>>17690618
resident evil the village fan fics

>>17696034
>Kharakanas worth it?
I probably have the same positive feelings on the series as you, so fair warning that Kharkanas took me a lot longer to get through then the main books. They're just written in a different way and were very slow at points that made getting through it difficult. That said I think that Fall of Light places in the top three for me and forge of darkness is also up there.

Is Book of the Long Sun series worth reading?
I kind of enjoyed New Sun, have heard that Long Sun is a bit more of a slog, but I love the concept.
Thoughts?

Life as a brainlet is so terrible
I’m reading the book of the new sun right now, and the farther I get into it the less I understand. Just read the part in the botanical garden where they go into the hut, and I didn’t understand a single thing the naked man said.
I don’t understand the Latin sounding words thrown into every sentence.
I don’t want to have to open a dictionary every time I read a paragraph.
I really liked the beginning but fuck, this is filtering me so hard

>>17696830
>>17696831
Woah.

>>17696840
Weird as fuck

>>17689180
Crime and Punishment is the best of those but Diamond Age is very good. Foundation I found very boring (sorry golden age daddies).

>>17696830

Absolutely worth reading. I would say it's not a slog at all - it lacks maybe some of the complexity of New Sun, but it's very fun and the story moves at a fun pace. Short Sun maybe is a little slower, but it is probably the most complicated as well. Book of the Long Sun was the most fun book of the Solar cycle for me.

>>17696831

Just keep going - that bit is notoriously difficult and is deliberately impossible on your first read.

It might be easier to read on a Kindle so you have the dictionary function. Also, a lot of the words are just for the "vibe" rather than a precise definition. Keep going, it'll get easier.

>>17696831
The gardens exist outside of time. It's all part of Inire's whole thing. You'll never understand, but you'll get it eventually.

Can someone explain why I hate Sanderson's way of kings world so much? Like irrationally so. I don't know why it feels so soulless, sterile, and stupid, but it does. And I can't pinpoint it.

My world in my fantasy book is flat and the climate isn't governed by anything scientific

>>17697424
Just like in real life then.

>>17694730
Thank you for your well thought out post. I wasn't going to read Prydain anytime soon because I have other books to get too, but I might check out The Belgariad sooner now

>>17690173
wtf was that ending is it supposed to be meta or something?

I decided to read Bakker, and in the first few pages of the book there's this phrase, something like "the scenery washed over him in statistical tides" and then the protagonist tries to emotionally manipulate a medieval craftsman who has some very uniquely modern insecurities. I mean come the fuck on. Do you retards really find this stuff good?

>>17697476
filtered

>>17697476
bakker is hack read the blade itself for some modern fantasy kino.

>>17697567
>Abercrombie
>Kino
lol.
Bakker > Martin >>>> Abercrombie

>>17697567
lmao

>>17697476
You were, unironically, filtered.
I've been living in an open relationship for 5 years now, and I understand perfectly what Bakker is trying to do with his masterpiece series: by presenting us with the perfect man, capable of manipulating anyone, he leaves us in a position of pleasurable weakness, leaving us to stroke our dick in shame, defenseless.

He makes us the cuck. I would say that, without blushing, the Prince of Nothing series is THE seminal work for fantasy-cuckoldry. It's obvious that Bakker has an intimate knowledge about being a cuckold in a reverse-power dynamic relationship, I can 100% relate to him in that.

>>17697625

>>17697440
I would advise you to read Prydain first. If you read Belgariad/Malloreon first and then read Prydain, you will find yourself massively underwhelmed, and probably more than a little disappointed at the difference in quality making you surly about both of them, whereas if you start with Lloyd Alexander it prepares you for the greater fulfillment of David Eddings, and you will find yourself enriched with appreciation for both of their works.
Also make damn sure you've read Lord of the Rings before either of those series. There's simply no appreciating any high fantasy epic saga without first grappling with the Ur-example that informs and inspires all great works since.

>>17697411
its because hes a mormon little freak and also its written like anime.

>>17697625
strange post

>>17697465
actually i thought about it a bit and it actually kicks ass

Finally finished Exodus from the Long Sun last night, ultimately it left me a bit frustrated that after 3 books of relatively straightforward narrative Wolfe dumps the rest of it rather unceremoniously in brief snippets, leaving the reader to connect the dots and answer their own questions

The biggest mystery is what the hell was up with Silk and Hy? They seem to be a case of love at first sight but the foundation of the relationship is never explored or explained. I'd assumed it was because Silk was possessed by Pas, and they love they experienced was basically Pas and Kypris love, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Read Short Sun, Y/N?

>>17686186
Based on an interview.

Couldn't find a template so I painted over yours.

>>17684818
A Desolation Called Peace, Teixcalaan #2 - Arkady Martine (2021)
The first book was about being an ambassador to a civilization that was trying annex their own, whom they literally considered to be barbarians. This does entirely away with that and doesn't have much in common overall in terms of plot. Instead, this is a book about first contact with a new non-human species, the second one, though there is minimal detail about relations with the first non-human species. I don't know how much it was me thinking it was, but this book seemed to be in response to Ender's Game.
The POVs are Mahit Dzmare and Three Seagrass from the previous book and then Nine Hibiscus, commander of Fleet commanders, and Eight Antidote, the eleven year potential Imperial heir.
As with the previous book, it was difficult for me to remember names using the [number] [noun] system, which were, as noted by the author a "direct reference to the naming practices of the Mixtec people of Oaxaca". I continue to have mixed feelings about whether this adds or detracts more from my enjoyment, though I'm leaning towards being a detraction overall.
The characters are handled better than in the first book as this time they were more appropriate for their age and station. When they weren't it was noted by other characters. Mahit and Three Seagrass continue to behave as if they were whimsical teenagers who have stumbled into dire situations and yet somehow are able resolve their problems through clever antics. Everyone states how it isn't normal for Eight Antidote, who is eleven, to be so amazing, but also it's to be expected of a potential Imperial heir.
The relationship between Mahit and Three Seagrass continues to develop and after a near-death experience Three Seagrass decides it's time for moderately graphic foreplay and a lightly detailed sex scene, of which Three Seagrass says she thought about asking for consent but thought it was obvious that she didn't need to. Mahit agrees. Unfortunately, by the end of the book their relationship arrives in a place that I found unsatisfactory, but not unexpected at all, as it seems to be common. They decide to split up again and say that simply writing letters to each other could be satisfactory. I disagree.
The aliens are an extrapolation of the relationship between Teixcalaan and Lsel Station, which was the the focus of the first book. The same question is asked, "How can we co-exist if we don't consider each other to be people?" though in a more extreme manner. The aliens also further the argument that collectivism is unfairly maligned and that individualists need not be so terrified of being deeply involved with each other.
I don't know what the author intended by describing people as being male or female bodied and I wonder if it'll become a point of controversy.
If there's a third book, I'll read it. They're entirely ok.
Rating: 3.5/5

>>17687464
No I dropped it once they started singing as a form of protest. The author has s o y in his veins

>>17698235
kek’d audibly

>>17686186
>>17698235
Who is this woman and why does she keep BTFOing epic fantasy authors?

>>17698235
lol, surely this year there will be some progress right?

>>17685764
why would anyone think a girl would like bakker
>immediately suggests and links a positive review at the start of the video
fine by me

>>17685764
Women can’t look into the mirror Esmenet is

>>17689866

Is this worth reading? I've plumbed the reviews and can't quite tell, generally I avoid anything written by a woman but I'm desperate for good space opera right now.
If it is worth reading, should I read the previous nanotech series first, or at all?

>>17697598
>>17697599
>t. cucks in denial

>>17698764
Legend of the Galactic Heroes

>>17696830
Long Sun and Short Sun for that matter, is very, very, very good books
Wolfe is notorious for trying to not write the same thing twice, so they are very different both in pace, style and mood from new Sun
Long Sun is hilarious in how much actually happens over what must be just a few days in-universe

It's also a refreshing to have the book told from the viewpoint of a more humane human, guy got the brightest outlook on things, Severian is kinda broken

Anyone here read the Demon Cycle? If so, did you like it? Would you recommend it?

>>17698028
Big Y
If you liked Long Sun, not necessarily for it's story (I think it's great), but how Wolfe tells a story. You should be able to find Short Sun interesting no matter what.
There's a lot more going on in it.
Also it finishes with a very strong ending, shouldn't leave you frustrated, things get concluded. At least the story, if not all the mysteries.

>a case of love at first sight
I think Wolfe is a romantic, and big believer in love at first sight.
I am not. So I never really "got it".
But, strong cases of love at first sight happens in his other books as well, they are a driving force of some plots, and it seems the reader are excepted to believe it fully
which is why I think it's a personal quirk from the author.
Where his view on how quickly and deeply people can fall in love, is different from most people

>>17698941
It gets significantly, significantly worse with every book. I dropped it on the third one

>>17695773
Yes, it's total shit. Even standard chinkshit is better, it makes about as much sense but at least the fight scenes and OUT BY THE ROOTS are more entertaining.

Wtf is happening here?

>>17699229
We're discussing the books of modern master of the fantastic, Brandon Sanderson.

>>17695187
is he actually a maple leafs fan? if so i feel sorry for him. what a dumpster fire of a team. imagine having the best offensive line in the league and still choking every playoffs

>>17699455
grmm is a jets fan

>>17687464
Books 1-4 are good, book 5 is trash.

>>17691986
Appleseed

https://youtu.be/p9wxKCaLcd8

lol

>>17697649
Thank you seriously for taking the time to type these out. I have a big list and Tolkien is towards the end (Idk I guess I want to save it. A lot of it is pre-Tolkien or contemporary to him), but I will not forget these two series.

>>17699796
Tolkien must be read at some point in the life of any high fantasy fan; it doesn't need to be read first, because it will always be waiting for you, just like Jesus.
However, if you ever consider reading the Mithgar series by Dennis McKiernan, definitely read that before Lord of the Rings; as it was originally envisioned as a sequel-fanfiction to LOTR before the Tolkien estate said "absolutely not", it replaced all the names with new ones and became a shameless plagiarism of LOTR. I'm not sure it is possible to enjoy The Iron Tower trilogy of Mithgar novels after reading Tolkien, because unless you have an extremely open mind the sheer audacity of the "inspiration" will seem as odious as a Chinese bootleg.

>>17698962
>Also it finishes with a very strong ending
Okay that's cool

>>17687248
If you liked the Belgariad, then you should read the sequel series, the Mallorean. I really liked both of them when I was a kid, but I can see their shortcomings now as an adult. He also has two sets of trilogies that I never read, the Elenium and Tamuli.

The plot is pretty generic in both the Belgariad and Mallorean, but some of the characters are great, especially in the Mallorean. Silk is probably my favorite.

>>17699934
I've ordered the Malloreon, I'm just waiting for it to arrive in the mail.
I should add, that I am an adult - I'll be 30 this year, and I for one am sick to death of post-modernist post-ironic deconstructivist cynical dogshit that has comprised the overwhelming majority of western fiction since the 9/11 bombings. I don't give a damn how childish something is as long as it's actually interesting; if it stimulates the brain more than Teletubbies, it's better than wasting my time reading A Song of Ice and Fire or watching the Star Wars sequel trilogy. I've been reading that depressing garbage for 20 years, and I'd like to avoid that for the rest of my life.

>>17689940
Everything after LOTR has been cobbled together by Christopher. The Silmarillion was unfinished when Tolkien died, so Christopher had to compile it from different drafts and notes, most of which contradicted each other.

>>17695773
Those guys were right in saying that it's only good compared to its competition. That being said I wasn't able to put book 1 down but book 2 is a bit dull. 60% of the way through and nothing legitimately intriguing has happened. The Bandit fight was poorly done, I agree

>>17700102
Book 2 lags a bit until the final stretch, which is fun.

Am I too tryhard if i make my fantasy world have none of the fruits we're used to?

>>17700160
nah that's pretty cool

>>17685064
Alan Dean Foster's Humanx series books are really comfy to read. Humans and Thranx get along really well considering the Thranx are like gigantic cockroaches

>>17700160
nah that's cool bro i fucking hate fruits too

>>17695397
You jest but there is a nigga right now who built a decent channel just examining an 8 book series written by an american based on chinese folklore and customs that exists only on Kindle Unlimited. Being the Bakker guy could produce a solid 2 year run of content.

>>17700197
Nice, I’ll buy it when I have the time.

>>17699976
Mallorean is a little more mature just because Garion is grown up and all the characters are adults now. The one major criticism I had is that the plot is basically the same as the first series; there is an explanation for it, but it just seems lazy

>>17698941
Book wanted from me to unironically sympathize with genocidal arab faggot. First book was very good though.

>>17688254
English is my third language. My advice: read everything you can in the language it was written in.

Any more edgy fantasy like this?

>>17698886
Silk is too pure for the whorl, or Horn thinks that way

>>17696830
>>17696831
The duality of man

>>17686186
Sensational

>>17693342
I half-loved half-hated this book. The dog chapters were very novel and interesting while the most cliche sci-fi chapters with the humans were dull as shit.

Similar experience for me to adrian tchaikovsky's Child of Time

>>17698764
I've read Nagata's Nanotech Succession series, this is the 5th book in the series.

She claims that the books can be read in any order, which they can but they to have a progression to them and this book has characters from the 3rd and 4th book in it.

This book and the previous one are ok but there is a lot of padding to them where they are travelling across vast distances of space.

it goes something like this, they travel through space, things happen, they go into cryostasis to pass the time, they wake up every now and then, things happen and then rinse and repeat.

Out of all the series I enjoyed the first two books the most. the third and this one are pretty meh.

>>17699827
based and christpilled

>>17698601
>epic fantasy authors
*children's fiction authors

>>17696830
Yeah Long Sun is excellent. More of a conventional adventure story, and while it may arguably lack the mysticisms of New Sun it still has its depths.

>>17698886
Lmao yeah pretty hilarious how the first book is literally one day. Might explain why everything accelerates randomly in the last book (which was a bit annoying)

>>17698028
Short Sun is like a remix of New and Long - same world as Silk but with stylistically much more New - but then again it injects a lot of it's own novelty too, the mystery runs deep

>what the hell was up with Silk and Hy?
It's partly the influence of Pas/Kypris, but also Silk's intense religious disposition and desire to forgive/accept etc - I can't word it properly but she's basically his white whale for redemption and forgiveness.

>>17697659
>it’s written like anime.
>implying that’s a bad thing.

>>17697659
>muh anime
What do you even mean by that? I understand when it looks like anime, big eyes, colorful, doesn't look like something a kid could draw, but written?

>>17701735
It can't be helped. I'll have to use *THAT* for my friends...

>>17701735
Not saying that Brando Sandman does all these things but
>Power of friendship bullshit
>Protagonist and most of the core characters are very young (13-20) whilst the antagonistic or authoritarian forces will be significantly older
>Male characters will typically be very awkward or very pervy in the face of lewdness
>Nuclear levels of destruction/loss of life used for dramatic effect
>lengthy/excessive fight scenes that have no narrative significance but are included anyway because they're h*ckin cool
>Spoken dialogue is extremely simple. Expository dialogue is common and will often explain the obvious
>food is used primarily or even solely to make the viewer/reader empathise with characters.
Most egregious example of the former is in something like TMNT. Why do the turtles eat pizza? Because the pre-teens watching it also like pizza

>>17694957
>Are the Brian Herbert books worth my time?
No. It's almost sad to behold how someone can miss the point of the original the way he does. I guess if you wanted to, I don't know, demystify the entirety of Dune then prequels are the way to go.

>>17701994
Stormlight Archive is basically kingdom hearts, too.
>There's a group of "chosen ones" who have unique but similar weapons (shardblades/Keyblades)
>They travel around to different, unique worlds in a multiverse fighting Heartless/Voidbringers
>Kaladin's is basically the same character as Rikku
>The big bad is basically Ansem

>>17702015
I'm okay with this

>>17701035
The old testament

>>17702161
M'lady

I started reading Chronicles of Amber today. I marathoned the first page and I'm a little surprised it's about an amnesiac guy in a modern hospital and not some farmboy going on a quest to defeat Lord Evil, what exactly am I in for here?

>>17687248
Main character was terribly retarded, I liked prequel with the wizard a lot more.

I saw an opportunity top grab the first few books of the wheel of time on a local bookshop at a reasonable price. But the fact the rest of the series is gigantic (and it's finished by another author) made be think twice about buying them.
Is it worth it even if I don't like modern fiction if only for these first few books?

>>17702309
Yes, it's a great ride regardless of what the autists here say.

>>17702225
Gonna be honest with you I was very underwhelmed. The prose is decent enough and the character are likeable enough, but the plot is just....well not that compelling to me.

>>17702309
>>17702309
It's shit and you know it, it's a straight ripp off from lord of the rings followed by endless mediocrity that manages to get even worse when Sanderson comes in.

>>17702309
Wheel of Time is about the journey. I hope you're not too woolheaded to take it.

>>17702321
meant for >>17702310
I really don't get how you could like this unless it was the first fantasy series you ever read.

>>17702225
One of the best fantasy series of 20th century.

>>17702225
>marathoned a page
A whole page marathon?

>>17702321
>>17702330
>it's a straight ripp off from lord of the rings
Wheel of Time has almost nothing in common with Lord of the Rings. It's such an asinine comparison, they aren't remotely similar. It's like saying the ASoIaF series is a rip off of LotR. They aren't in any way similar beyond being Fantasy, regardless of your opinions of them.

>>17702330
Looks like somebody got FILTERED

>>17702336
Kids these days and their speed reading make make ashamed of this new generation. For you to enjoy a book the proper way you do half a paragraph followed by an hour of meditation on it's meaning and 2 days rest for the content to set down on your head.

>>17702340
Reread Eye of the World, the whole "third age" thing is 100% Lord of the Rings

>>17702354
Not even remotely, and even if it were, it's such an irrelevant background aspect of the series that the comparison is totally retarded. At absolute most you could call that a reference. It has absolutely no bearing on the plot or characters.

>>17702357
And the ranger character who is secretly a king? Lan is Aragorn. Perrin sounds a whole lot like Pippin, doesn't it?
It just goes on and on.

>>17702365
Lan isn't a ranger, and his being a king isn't remotely secret. And as far as character goes he's nothing like Aragorn, and his character arc plays out nothing like Aragorn's. Perrin and Pippin are absolutely nothing alike character wise, the only similarity between them is having a name that starts with P. You're posting some of the most brainlet shit I've ever seen.

>>17702385
You're just a fucking Sandersonfag who's blidn to any and all criticism but let me tell you the wheel of time sucks and has no originality and you might as well read fucking Drizzt books

>>17702397
You haven't made any criticism, you've just claimed a series that is nothing like Lord of the Rings is like Lord of the Rings, and now you're getting butthurt about it. It's also extremely clear you haven't actually read the books you're complaining about.

>>17702385
You have to be blind not to see the blatant similarities, for fucks sake the author himself said he was taking HEAVY inspiration form LoTR, and you can see plain as day even in the story beats. The fact a LOT of other fantasy writers also did the same does not excuse this series.

>>17699988
Checked.
Also, I may be misremembering, or merely be wishful thinking, but didn't Christopher Tolkien later re-edited the Silmarillion and published it?

Bros, I just woke up from a dream in which Bakker announced the titles of the No-God books: “The Cruel Land” and “The Water Genius.”

The Sathakhans of Zëum are described as cruel. The water genius must be a reference to the crab hand kid, who will learn the Psûke from Meppa. Dreams are portals to vision, are they not...?

>>17702535
You should probably just kys.

>when you realise bakker wrote 8 extremely long books just to ripoff dune and fit as many black sabbath references in as possible

basado

>>17702569
Sorcerers of madness
Selling me their time
Child of God sitting in the sun
Keeping peace of mind
Fictional seduction
On a black snow sky
Sadness kills the superman
Even fathers cry

>>17702309
Depends on what you want from it but probably not. The series is guilty pleasure even before the onset of the slog and it lives by stringing the reader along so it's not like you'll get satisfying cut off point within the early tomes.

>>17702569
>8 books
what did he mean by this...?

>>17702612
neuropath is the secret 8th book.

>>17702610
>i'm drunk and in trouble

heh

>>17702610
Why didn't Mat just kill the woman who raped him?

>>17702695
Cause he liked it.

>>17702535
The kid learning that wouldn't be very interesting. Dunyain make poor Cishaurim because their eugenic program dampened their intuition along with their emotions.

>>17700160
I only eat dragonfruit and durian, dunno what you think I'm used to.

>>17702225
A war between brothers that spans dimensions.

>>17702747
uh no dunyain kids are emotional, it's the training that makes them emotionless, crabicus is an angsty fuck

>>17702747
The kid hasn’t been tempered yet

>>17684818
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6Ht1DwLNI

>>17703173
>>>/mu/

>>17703199
Read Bakker

>>17703208
No, kys.

>>17702747
dunyain kdis and kellhus were running around squealing trying to touch the pragma

>>17703034
>>17703064
>>17703211
Even before trainning they are already less emotional than normal kids.

Even most of the half-Dunyain kids have weaker emotions. Inrilatas had normal human level emotions inherited from Esmi and he couldn't cope with it, as Kellhus explained.

>>17703173
>bakker in high school lying in his bed stoned after getting his ass kicked by his drunk dad, listening to dehumanizer and coming up with the idea of the no-god

>>17701257
Thanks anon, I'll try the first one and see if I like it.

>>17703318
Nah his hairline would have been way higher in high school

>>17702712
actual answer: because the author is a femdom fetishist and thought being raped by some dommy queen woman was super hot and definitely not shitty storytelling.
if i could travel back in time the #1 thing on my to-do list would be to dissuade myself from wasting time on that fucking trash series, literally the worst thing i've ever read.

>>17703330
just to let you know, the first one isn't space opera it is cyberpunk. It is where the nanotech succession begins, the book ends with humanity venturing into space colonies above earth.

Second book is a few hundred years after and humanity has moved more into space and have started to leave earth behind.

The third book is set on a different planet but still isn't quite space opera.

The fourth book is where the series becomes a space opera and the journey through space begins.

>>17703173
>>17703318
Look at those lyrics and tell me this isnt exactly what happened.

>>17703264
Yeah I agree.
I also feel like the Dunyain training is a bit whatever, that it's mostly in their breed.

I recall some comment about Crabby would've flunked out of Dunyain-Academy if stuff had gone on as normal, so it would make sense for him to be "less Dunyain"
I also speculate that they are more normal as children, and turn freakier as they fully develop. Difference between Kellhus and his children isn't a good comparison though, got both the age, and their breed. Even, they changed as they got older

Still, Kellhus and his shitty Cishaurim father where "strong Dunyain".
It would make sense for a "bad Dunyain", like Crab, to have greater potential with Psûke

>>17703353
yes

This sucks.

>>17703845
Ikr? It's like supposed to be oldie and mythical and poetic and shit but is just fucking awful. I hope people who shill this stuff die.

>>17703638
yeah the anasurimbor bloodline was the most powerful of all the 12

>>17703948
Even Lewis admits it's badly written in the introduction. As much as I think LotR is dry and boring, at least it's not nonsense hiding behind the excuse that's it's supposed to be dreamlike.

why the fuck are bugbears giant ogres. They should be giant hairy bugs that eat berry's.

>>17703991
>Lewis admits it's badly written in the introduction
and he still published? dangerously debased

Ah, Master Achamian, my arch nemesis

>>17684818
Anyone here read Dreams of the Dying? I'm a fan of the game it comes from and want to know if the novel is good.

>>17704522
aaah the prince of arthithau... our new..... celebrity....

>>17703845
>>17703948
Filtered

>>17704740
Not filtered.

>>17704704
It’s okayish.

>>17704218
No

>>17703845
They get better in my opinion.

>>17702774
Why

>>17685211
Will do.

Not everyone can be saved.

>>17705162
I'm damned already desu

>>17705162
WRONG

Where is fantasy nowadays, like what are the predominant trends and what's "hip" so to speak?

>>17705162
is this the most powerful Bakker quote?

>>17705293
>fantasy
Children's fiction*

>>17705341
>Children's fiction*
Sturgeon's law

>>17705293
Unironically the rejection of any sort "historical realism" of any kind in the characters, instead giving them mordent motivations, morals, beliefs and drives. You could largely blamed martin for the popularization of it even if he is not the one who caused this change. The "wow they are so like me dude they swear and shit hahah, look they think x is bad even though it makes no sense in the society they live in hahaha" is getting more and more prevalent as time goes on

>>17705356
>wow they are so like me dude they swear and shit hahah
People didn't always swear?

>look they think x is bad even though it makes no sense in the society they live in
What character gave you that impression?

>>17705356
I see. What's the most interesting series/novel currently?

>>17705293
Fantasy hasn't been "hip" in written form since Harry Potter. Netflix picking up Redwall could be an indication that that's what people are looking for, though.

>>17705404
For the purpose of this thread? R. Scott Bakker
Mainstream... Hmmm.-- Good question
There's kinda been a few year of hiatus, nothing big emerged in the last 3 years or so
and everything else consider big, is a bit to old still be "hip", like Sanderson is NOT hip anymore

>>17705436
>Fantasy hasn't been "hip" in written form since Harry Potter.
Clearly Martin, Erikson and Sanderson clearly disagree with that.

>>17705459
Does it feel like the genre is saturated and like it needs someone to come in and shake things up like those 3? I haven't been paying attention to it much, but I plan to get into more recent stuff since I'm gonna reread Tolkien and Martin, do Moorcock's Elric Saga and read Zelazny.

>>17705495
>Martin
Hardly. Those books came into fashion when Harry Potter did.
>Erikson
Definitely not hip.
>Sanderson
Honestly forgot he existed. Sure, maybe. I couldn't tell you a thing about his appeal though, since I couldn't get more than a page into it.

>>17705356
>"historical realism"
Fucking retard
>the characters, instead giving them mordent motivations, morals, beliefs and drives
God forbid we have actual characters instead of two-dimensional set pieces for the 999th reimagining of the Arthurian or Tolkien mythos

>>17705544
>Hardly. Those books came into fashion when Harry Potter did.
They are still hip today, maybe more than before, thanks to the show.

>>17705544
>Those books came into fashion when Harry Potter did.
Yeah, but they "took off" much later, that matter, definitely not hip still, tough

>>17705600
I think you're conflating the show's success and the books' success. Obviously, the show increased sales of the books. But it's not really comparable to anon here who is considering writing a novel (I assume, from the shiteating way he is asking his questions.)

>>17705495
>Does it feel like the genre is saturated
Very much so, these things goes in waves, may not be this year. But, I fully except some new-ish name to make it big soon

>>17705596
>Fucking retard
If you are Making a setting based on medieval europe you need to take that into acount while you are writing character.
Take years The Years of Rice and Salt (though that might not be too fair to other fiction as that is still set in our word" the characters act and behave in a way it would be understandable to the society they live in. There is no "hurdur slavery is immoral because it is soI will fight to stop it" the reasons for the beliefs of the characters can be explained easily with their circumstances in mind.

>God forbid we have actual characters instead of two-dimensional set pieces for the 999th reimagining of the Arthurian or Tolkien mythos
Now you are just being a retard, not having current day drives does not mean having no drives at all, all I'm saying is take into account the time period you are in. and are you telling me Tolkien had shit characters? tell what do you read that is "oh, so good" at character development and characterization that you that made your tastes so superior?

If get 1 more take on medieval gender identities, I swear, I'll, I'll,,, harrrumf! Huff Huff...

>>17705678
>If you are Making a setting based on medieval europe
Are you talking about a fantasy book or a historical novel?
>current day drives
Do you think every person from from the eras before you were weirdos with alien needs and fetishes? People have some weird views on that, defied noble ancestors, as if a lot of them weren't top-tier degenerate.
>all I'm saying is take into account the time period you are in
Is it a fantasy book or a historical novel? Tell me about that historically accurate time were elves were immortals, negros were orcs and chinks flew on dragons.
>you telling me Tolkien had shit characters
Yes because Tolkien focus was creating a new mythology from scratch for his fellow Britbongs based on other example like the Kalevala, and every character is a thread in that prophecy. Not shit exactly but not profound either since every character must fill an archetypical role within that mythological context.

>>17705725
this, but genuinely

>>17705678
Do you misconstrue on purpose?

>>17705790
>Is it a fantasy book or a historical novel?
>Are you talking about a fantasy book or a historical novel?
OK lets put it this way, you are writing about a fictitious past in which the heretical structures are pretty much he same as in our own past and the technologies which allowed us to break free from dogmatic think or at least speed up the process are no present.
Nor are the thinker or philosopher who would drive forwards ethics in any way present, but at the same time the main protagonist (or the main cast) seem to be illuminated with post illuminists though, simple because they are, with nothing to lean back on.
> Not shit exactly but not profound either since every character must fill an archetypical role within that mythological context.
They are a lot more profound than most other fantasy, everyone has a drive a history and a conflict within themselves they need to solve, and while their genetics predisposition in their race does play a part in them as a person it is just part of who they are, together with their culture and upbringing. Not everything is preordained as you make it seem, the future is up for grabs until he main conflict is resolve the only thing that is certain is that change is coming either way.
If you compare Tolkien characters to (taking a book I have read recently) The Black Compan, with all due respect to glen and his writing, Tolkien's are more developed.
Take any of the character and compare them to see, the first few chapters, (and one could argue the whole hobbit books) does nothing but introduce us to the way the main cast live act and behave. You cannot tell me this is not enough characterization, and you cannot tell me this is bad characterization.

>>17705678
>There is no "hurdur slavery is immoral because it is soI will fight to stop it"
Is this about Daenerys? She came from and was raised for a society without slavery so that was why she was the way she was. The books go on in detail about why her radical social engineering was actually harmful and how she simply didn't understand those societies well enough to be of service to them.

>>17695349
Booba girl fucked off.

>>17698753
Wait a second, he has two mothers but no father?