/lit/ - Literature

first for zyzz

first for catullus (pbvh)

>>17676882
I'm currently working on the chart for French. Help me add books to this list
>kids picture books
>easy chapter books
Le Petite Prince
>YA
>easy novels
The Stranger, The Plague (Camus)
>hard(er) novels
>hardest books

>>17676882
Also, what happened to the anon who was organising the "/lit/ learns a language" thing? Is he gonna go forward with it?

>>17676897
thinking of removing the bottom tier so its just "easy novels" and "hard novels". Where would /lit/ place Proust, Hugo, Flaubert?

/r/latin has infinitely better resources for learning Latin. Most of the resources listed in the wiki are objectively terrible, and there's hardly any in the megalinks.

some translation exercises for you
>Easy
They often say that
I think that it's nice
How much?
I need to cut my hair
>Medium
He always used to tell me that
We will have done it by Thursday
I used to be better
You(pl) are only human, you'll die in the end
>Hard
The Doric order was one of the three orders of ancient Greek and later Roman architecture; the other two canonical orders were the Ionic and the Corinthian. The Doric is most easily recognized by the simple circular capitals at the top of columns.
Kyrgyzstan, officially the Kyrgyz Republic, also known as Kirghizia, is a landlocked country in Central Asia. It is bordered by Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and China. Its capital and largest city is Bishkek. Kyrgyzstan's history spans a variety of cultures and empires

>>17676882
Any Old Occitan learners here?

I started on declensions today (RIP my wrists) witrh this site http://jonathanaquino.com/latin/index.php?controller=table&action=new&table=Nouns and I noticed the declension tables don't tell you the cases and they are also different to the declension tables in my Gwynn's Latin book. Is there a 'best' declension table to use?

I want to know how that anon who is learning Syriac is doing. Syriac-anon, show yourself.

for a Slav, German is impossible

I've been reading some french book from the 18th ce about learning languages and I'm surprised how long the debate has been going on for, that is between the grammar method and the natural method. A few quotes/paraphrases

D. Lancelot, on Greek
>The Romans would send their sons to Athens to master Greek and to absorb, in it's entirety, the richness and delicacy. Unfortunately for us, we don't have the luxury of doing this since the Greeks no longer speak their tongue purely. We must resort to books in which we are still able to pluck fine words, noble phrases, style and majestic thoughts in their original mould.

PL Ami, on Modern Languages
>As children, we learn our native language by uniting words with concrete objects: milk, bread, water, fire dog. By the time we reach adolescence, we speak it fluently with little hesitation, without having to open a single grammar book. Naturally, grammar has it's place if one does not wish to disrespect the mother tongue or look like a blockhead to people of education, while writing anything from letters to literary work or giving orations, but for the majority, this isn't needed.

M. Rollin
>Latin should be taught with translations. That is, a student should not have to rack his brains over the nuance of a single word or grammatical point when this could be resolved instantly with a word for word translation. Let him read to his heart's content, armed with as many translations he can possibly find, so that he may fill his mind with innumerable models of pristine Latin and become well acquainted with the language as fast as possible without the delay of some pedant's fixation on syntactical subtleties.

>>17677021
wiktionary has them, with macrons too

I'm currently trying to learn Ancient Greek through Latin using videos on the YT channel Scorpio Martianus. Awesome stuff, check it out, bros. It also helps me with my Latin.
As for Latin, please use Lingua Latina per se illustrata. It’s immensely fun and effective. And if you’re not satisfied with the shitload of recommendations you’re getting all over the internet, you can check out the work of Stephen Krashen, the leading researcher in the field of second language acquisition, to understand why it works. And also why any other alternative method is bullshit. He has a few quite popular vids on YT. And then you can head to his papers, if you will. Anyway, use LLPSI.

>>17677045
I feel you. It's a horrible mess. Also for me, it just doesn't sound nice, so you have low motion to learn it when you learn, even though it would be useful to know.

>>17676911
pseudos believing that if something is not hard for the mare sake of being hard, then it’s lame and reddit-tier, approaching

>>17676928
dicono quello sempre
Penso che sia buono
quanto?
ho bisogno di tagliare i mie capelli

mi diceva questo sempre
lo avremo fatto di giovedì
ero miglior
siete solo umano, alla fine morirete

>>17676882
Wanted to learn German, any tips, guides? Best books, recommendations? Is it feasible to learn the language in 4 years up to C1 level?

>>17676882
Can someone recommend good authors/books to read in German? Im B2 level now so it would be nice if the books are at that level.

Failed my ancient greek exam

>>17677250
I hope you pass next time anon

>>17677250
Don't feel bad, they probably teached you thru this retarded grammar method anyway. The correct way to learn this is with books like italian Athenaze or Alexandros.

>>17677347
>italian Athenaze
?

>>17677344
thanks. I'll try my best and report back in half a year.

>>17677347
>retarded grammar method anyway

What do you mean by this?

>>17677348
Athenaze is an english-language textbook. Italian Athenaze is a translation of it that is basically the original rewritten and improved. It was made to very much mimic famous Lingua Latina per se Ilustrata and also adds a lot of reading practice. Still, there're sadly some words glossed in Italian, but if you know some latin you can successfully guess their meanings or just use a dictionary. You can find it on libgen.

But then again, if you know some Latin (which you should, if you're dealing with Greek) then there's this series on Youtube that teaches Greek using Latin and aforementioned Alexandros. (Scorpio martianus is the channel's name).

I'm not saying any of this books is a gold-standard. There's sadly none. But you'll be considerably better off with them than with some insane textbook that makes you rote-memorize all the grammar before you even see an actual text. Good luck.

>>17677379
It means methods that make you memorize all the grammar rules, which is NOT how you get to read fluently, that is read as you read english. As for alternatives, see above. As for a broader context, google Stephen Krashen.

>>17676911
>>17677085

4chan is terrible for learning almost anything, and tends to be too surface level for serious discussion of anything it pretends to love.

>>17677402
But thats utterly wrong from my experience, I wasted years on German, listening to the radio in German, doing exercises, reading the news or whatever and i'm still at A1 level entirely because I didn't learn the grammar systematically from the start. I should have learned that cursed case system first.

>I know not why any one should waste his time, and beat his head about the Latin grammar, who does not intend to be a critick, or make speeches and write dispatches in it. When any one finds in himself a necessity or disposition to study any foreign language to the bottom, and to be nicely exact in the knowledge of it, it will be time enough to take a grammatical survey of it. If his use of it be only to understand some books writ in it, without a critical knowledge of the tongue itself, reading alone, as I have said, will attain this end, without charging the mind with the multiplied rules and intricacies of grammar.

>>17677402
you do have to learn grammar.
you don't have to learn forms, except for signals.
There's no point in trying to read Greek if you don't understand how participles and modes work. Even worse, trying to read Greek if you are an Anglo and don't even know what cases are

>>17677448
Because you were trying to run before you were able to walk. The biggest difficulty of understanding is not not-knowing the rules, but a limited vocabulary. You can't listen to advanced materials like radio and count on magic to happen. You have to find something you're comfortable with and make your way up.

Also exercises don't help or help little.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1944-9720.2003.tb02123.x

Comprehensible input is everything. Google it.

And yeah, sure, I’m talking about the ideal situation in which you have access to such materials. If you are just starting off, it can be troublesome. You might need a little bit of grammar, a little bit of flashcards. But the bottom line is that: to learn a language you listen to and read a lot of things you can understand in that language. That’s about it.

What are the best resources for learning Ancient Greek (specifically Attic) - books, sites, etc.?

>>17677488
Ok, sure. My first language is inflected, so I haven't considered this. Yes, you should learn what cases are. But drilling declensions is pointless.

>>17676928
Ordo Doricus erat unus triarum ordinum anticae Graecae tardiorisque Romanae architecturae; alii ordines canonici erant Ionicus ac Corinthius. Doricus facillime ex simplicibus circularibus capitellis in summis columnis adgnoscitur.
Kyrgystan, officialiter Kyrgyz res publica, aliter et nomine Kyrgyzia nota, est natio a terris circumdata in media Asia. Tangitur a Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan et China. Capital ac summa urbs ei Bishkek. Kyrgyztan historia varios per mores atque imperia panditur.
I think I've come up with some words that may or may not actually exist and I also have probably mixed classical and late latin. Anyways, for the average Latin student, such as myself, it's much easier to talk about columns and remote countries than about hair cutting.

>>17676909
French native here. Houellebecq should be relatively easy to read, as he mainly uses everyday language in his novels.
You will probably find Hugo harder, especially when he writes about very specific subjects (the sewers of Paris, argot, the ecclesiastical hierarchy, etc).
And don't even try reading Proust, even french natives are afraid of his works.

>>17677507
If you know Latin, there you go:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU1WuLg45SixzqVhVtpL-l2DWuvmTXwlP
If you don't, learn it first.

>>17677569
How exactly does Latin help me learn Ancient Greek? I want to learn both, but I always saw them as separate. Care to enlighten me?

>>17676882
>fluent in German, Hungarian, Slovak
>just moved to French speaking part of Switzerland

French is just so alien, don't even know where to start.

>>17677607
Not him but Romans stole a lot of words (pater == πᾰτήρ) and grammatical constructions/paradigms from the Greeks. Although you don't need one to study the other, your time would be well spent becoming familiar with both to ease acquisition.

>>17676911
Isn't Wheelock's Latin good?

>>17677565
thanks

>>17677089
pls correct

>>17677503
This is so wrong. Immersion by books and audio helps a lot. But you literally can't do much if you don't sit down and go through a lot of grammar exercises. There are a lot of rules things you simply won't understand unless you spent a significant amount of times solving on them and reading the explanations.

>>17677682
Nope. Use LLPSI, seriously.

>>17677766
You're assuming language is about intellectually understanding its rules. It's not. It's about intuition. Two totally different processes.
Having said that, you can use a little bit of grammar instruction. But only in due course after getting comfortable with the language itself. It's the matter of order and priorities.

>>17677655
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8XN5kNFkhdIS7NMcdUdxibD1UyzNFTP
Also

https://youtube.com/c/aliceayel

>>17677804
Grammar is like training wheels. It's not supposed to be a permanent thing. Only you can know when you are ready to take them off and then you can really fly through texts with good comprehension. With Latin there should come a time when you no longer have to determine this or that declination or type of clause and can simply do it on sight, but the general idea, shared even by those who have some qualification in Latin, is that this is not possible and so they find themselves stuck forever decoding the language rather than reading it. If they dared to try reading without those training wheels, as it were, they would find that it's possible to read Latin as fluently as any modern language, even if it feels uncomfortable at first. You are right, language proficiency is about building up intuition, not picking apart grammar.

>>17677419
yep. a great place for people to feel elite while being less than average

tips on learning french? Started couple of days ago and i will be starting with alphabets, pronounciation and minimal pairs. After that basic grammar and vocabulary. How does my plan sound like?

>>17677876
go back faggot

Its interesting, everyone agrees that LLPDI is the best study book but some feel its almost impossible to learn Latin without grammar study, some consider it pointless.

>>17677888
to where? I've been here a lot longer than you have

>>17676902
I also want to know this

>>17677682
No.
t. forced to use Wheelock for uni.

>>17677682
It's tedious but effective. You'd probably get more out of it than LLPSI if you really put the effort in. LLPSI is so much more comfy though

>>>/int/140473109
link to /int/ sister thread

>>17677879
the only "extra" letters that matters are é = /e/, è which is like a shorter é but not much difference, and ç = /s/. the rest of the accents dont really do anything. the diphthongsare important and you should work on pronouncing them right. grammar wise french is easy, vocab should be too hard since theres a lot of words english got from french

>>17677707
pls

is learning French and Italian at the same time a good idea? I've got a pretty good grasp of Italian already

>>17677879
New French learner here too, I speak Spanish (B2/C1) and English (native).

This audio course has helped me a lot, and is also very interesting if you enjoy learning about linguistics too. It doesn’t feel like “language learning” but more like play:

Can’t post link, but look up “Introduction to French” by The Thinking Method on SoundCloud

>>17677879
New French learner here too, I speak Spanish (B2/C1) and English (native).

This audio course has helped me a lot, and is also very interesting if you enjoy learning about linguistics too. It doesn’t feel like “language learning” but more like play:

Can’t post link, but look up “Introduction to French” by The Thinking Method on SoundCloud

>>17677834
I would agree with that except I don't think that naming endings is either necessary or helpful. Other than that we're on the same page. Being told what given suffix means is definitely of help. And frankly, I do like to know what things are called anyway, I just don't think it's something you should be bothered with while reading.

>>17677936
To be clear: LLPSI does contain a grammar curriculum. It is just always preceded by a good deal of reading.

>>17678151
Oh I know, I just meant some people consider it the starting point, others believe you must write out your tables 200 times first.

Italybros can you recommend some good, relatively easy italian podcasts please? grazie

>>17678239
Italiano bello

>>17678209
I know the method. I don't see the point but whatever. 200 times is not that many and after that you get to read LLPSI. Compare this to slogging through the Wheelock and then translating Cicero while consulting a dictionary for every other word.

>>17678372
Its 200 repetitions for nouns, 100 for adjectives then 200 for verbs right? I just found a 200 page lined workbook I bought 15 years ago, might as well finally do something with it.

>>17677667
>Romans stole a lot of words (pater == πᾰτήρ)
you can't be fucking serious lmao

For some reason, I couldn't find a source online that spells out how all the Latin verb's forms are conjugated from its principle parts. Looking at how ferō is conjugated makes it very clear what the last two forms are used for, but which forms are conjugated from the first two principle parts? My guess is that it's to form the
>active present infinitive
>active & passive subjunctive imperfect forms
>imperative singular passive
>passive imperfect second person

>>17678693
*that the second principle part is used to form

Learning Japanese. Originally it wasn’t because I was a weeb, I just went to Japan on vacation and when trying to learn basic phrases and such I got interested in knowing more. Ever since I’ve kind of had the goal of learning languages for countries I visit. Next I’d like to do German.

Japanese is definitely a difficult one to start with though. It made me realize how much of language involves very particular expressions of certain things. The way nouns and verbs can be combined to express basically the same thing in another language but with seemingly different implications in the actual structure of which verbs or nouns are use or otherwise exist is interesting. It makes it clear how much you have to just consume and observe conventional modes of expression in the target language. I originally started by trying to make it all “make sense”, but over time it feels like pattern recognition of expressions given a certain context and brute memorization is more effective. But grammar all seems like nonsense. There is the basic sense of grammar that is useful for very basic sentence construction, but once you get into actual common modes of expression you realize that the nuances of the whole things are very particular and not dictated by any underlying reason. It’s all accumulated like culture, maybe it has roots in various things but the variety of it all makes it seem as though all you can do is try to consume as much of it as possible and just memorize it, just become familiar with it.

>>17678758
Japanese is kino when you get a good grasp on it. Before that, it just seems like a mess of a language - which it kinda is to be fair, but a structured mess.

What is your technique for memorizing vocab? I'm halfway through my first semester of german and the words are starting to add up. Do you just use flashcards?

>>17677607
I do.
1. Greek is one of the hardest languages out there. First, because there's really little common vocabulary with English to lend you a hand. Second, resources are scarce, so you need to know how to learn in order to get around it.
2. On the other hand, Latin is not that hard to learn, if learned properly. You have the best textbook ever written for any language to aid you. You have podcasts in Latin, you have youtubers and even minecraft videos(!). And a lot of introductory-level texts from the 19th century. In a word: everything you need to fill countless hours of listening and reading. And you’ll constantly find yourself realizing that you already know this or that world from English, even if in a changed form. Not so with Greek.
3. While the lexicon is different, the basic premise of the grammar is the same: you have cases. And if you’re an anglophone chances are you don’t have the slightest idea how these work. Once you learn them in Latin, you’ll have a much easier time tackling them in Greek.
4. The best resource to start with Greek is Alexandros but it’s useless unless you have a teacher. And you can have one: there are these youtube videos that guide you through it, but they’re in Latin. So learning Latin you effectively unlock the resources for Greek.

Here you have the whole path laid out for Latin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Kk7VkoWbc

>>17678813
Reading and rereading if you have something easy to read that you can understand. If not so, flashcards. But reading is always better. And learn in a context, always.

>>17678813
Anki; it's like flashcards but the method they are displayed is more nuanced

>>17677607
They have similar grammar and you learn them in almost exactly the same way. Memorize morphology, memorize grammar. Same basic logic of case usage (ablative/dative of means etc.), participles, subordinate clauses governed by prepositions. They are different for sure but you're basically doing the same thing with both, and most of the core concepts apply.

Latin gives you more room to focus on grammar logic because morphology isn't so complex, so it's easier to learn first, and then you can apply the same grammar logic to Greek while spending 90% of your Greek learning time drilling morphology. Harder to do the other way around so it makes some amount of sense to do Latin first. Up to you ultimately though.

Greek is even easier than Latin grammatically once you get up to a high level. In my opinion.

>>17676928
Lo dicono spesso.
Penso ch'è grazioso.
Quanto?
Devo mi fare tagliare i cappelli.

Lo me diceva sempre.
Lo avremo fatto giovedi.
Ero migilore.
Voi siete solo humani, morirete un giorno.

L'ordine dorico era uno dei tre ordini della architettura greca quindi romana, i altri ordini canonichi sono il ionico e il corinzio. Il dorico è il più facilmente riconosciuto per i semplici capitelli circolari alla cima delle colonne.
Kirghizistan, ufficialmente la repubblica kirghiza, anche conosciuto sotto il nome di Kirghizia, è un paese senza sbocco sul mare in Asia centrale. Ha una frontiera col Kazakistan, il Uzbekistan, il Tagikistan e la Cina. La sua capitale e città più grande è Bishkek. La storia del Kirghizistan abbraccia diversi culture e imperi.

>>17677607
it's a closely related classical language that will help you a lot getting used to the main features of ancient Greek without the initial difficulty of learning another alphabet, the pitch accent and the even more complex verb conjugation or noun classes, and as others have said, resources for Latin, especially non strictly grammatical but more active and engaging, are broader
this is especially the case if your main language has no declension system and you have no experience with such a feature, even learning German has helped me with the shock of a fully declined language like Latin

Need help with ITALIAN: French has Sandberg, German has Jannach, but where do I go to learn how to read Italian texts? There's seemingly no option, except a single very elementary online-based course. There are no frequency dictionaries of Italian either, so that makes the learning process much more tedious.

>>17678956
Honestly after using both Sandberg French and Jannach German (and Sandberg for German as well) myself, plus some crappy resources for other Romance languages, I just see every textbook as basically interchangeable at this point as long as it gives me the grammar rules. I can now decide what exercises I feel are useful/mandatory, and supplement them with my own side work if necessary. Why not just get whatever basic bitch run of the mill textbook people seem to use and make it work for you. Google for italian syllabus and open 10 of them to see what gets mentioned most often. Even that isn't a guarantee of anything, since classes will often use the shittiest one because it's "accessible."

Italian is so goddamn easy anyway.

>>17678956
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YGwH92yoxI&list=PLf8XN5kNFkhfQonvCySTrKEUV742WzshJ
The text to be found on libgen. They're constantly uploading next chapters. Having gone through this you will have over 2000 items in your vocabulary, which is a pretty solid start.

>>17678976
Assimil's Italian with Ease is generally what people recommended to me. I never used an Assimil before, so I don't what to expect from going through one of their textbooks.
>>17678990
This looks similar to Worman's books for French and German, which suits my learning style very nicely. Thanks anon. How is the grammar presented in the books?

I’m learning Japanese by reading porn games. Going to jerk off to 俺を欲しがる二人の母 tonight

>>17679057
It's introduced gradually with each chapter, mainly in marginal notes. Then you have a few exercises that get you thinking about it. Basically you are to look up the proper forms in the text and then fill the gaps. Generally focus is shifted from the grammar to vocabulary, which is a nice touch. But you still get all you need.

There's also an analogical book for French if someone would be interested. It's being uploaded to the same channel.

what's the "area of intelligibility" so to speak of Attic Greek? what I mean is, by learning Attic Greek to a decent level, how easily would someone be able to read e.g Homeric Greek or Byzantine Greek on the other end? how does it compare to classical Latin in this case?

>>17679377
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xy7WahsS7I

>>17679377
Not good, usually you get this as a standard warning that it is quite different. More like Latin to French than medieval French to modern French.

But you can learn Homeric and Ionic pretty easily as a subset and Koine is just easy.

>>17677102
Anyone?

>>17679729
>4 years
Nigga you can learn it in 4 autistic months. Just read Jannach and Sandberg and try translating some shit you care about so that the balance of interest/pain is tipped in favor of interest and you don't mind the pain of struggling with it, do this until your brain starts soaking shit up. If you go pirate Jannach or buy it off abebooks right now and just start soaking it up, use youtube videos like a zoomer bitch for grammar shit that confuses you but ultimately just keep consuming jannach and run through the book 2 or 2.5 times to fill any gaps, you could basically be reading German within the month if you're autistic enough. Slowly, but with all the foundations in place for rapid progress in subsequent months (including speaking/listening if you want that)

>>17678874
>>17678899
>>17678912
Thanks bros

>>17677089
>dicono quello sempre
Lo dicono spesso
Explanation: often = spesso, always = sempre; that "that" thrown around there is usually translated by the pronoun "lo"
>Penso che sia buono
Correct
>quanto?
Correct
>ho bisogno di tagliare i mie capelli
First, it's "i miei capelli" (masculine). But since hair is a part of the body (like hands, etc.), we use a fake reflexive: "di tagliarmi i capelli" (to cut myself the hair)
>mi diceva questo sempre
Again, "lo" here is more common than "questo". "Me lo diceva spesso" is correct, but I side-add "Soleva sempre dirmelo" as a more literal, although not so common, translation. (Solere = to use to, in literature mostly)
>lo avremo fatto di giovedì
*per giovedì. A due day is expressed through preposition "per"; using "di" with a weekday means the same as "on" in English.
While your sentence then would be correct, the usual Italian construction would use a passive here: "Sarà fatto per giovedì" (It will be done by Thursday)
>ero miglior
Using "solere" here wouldn't make sense, so forget my advice from above. In this case, to give the sense of "used to", it's best to add "in passato" (in the past): "In passato ero migliore". But a sentence like this implies some kind of object, e.g. I was better [at chess] = In passato giocavo meglio [a scacchi], where instead of using the verb essere, you use the relevant action verb (you play chess, so you use giocare).
>siete solo umano, alla fine morirete
Umano is singular, umani is plural. In this case, we also use the partitive article, but I don't remember why. "Siete solo degli umani".

For the hard ones, just so you can learn:
>L'ordine dorico era uno dei tre ordini dell'architettura greca antica e poi di quella romana; gli altri due ordini canonici furono lo ionico e il corinzio. Il dorico è il più facilmente riconosciuto per via dei semplici capitelli circolari in cima alle colonne.
>Il Kirghizistan [also spelled as Kyrgyzstan by some], ufficialmente la Repubblica Kirghisa, anche nota come Chirghisia, è un paese senza sbocco sul mare [landlocked is literally translated as "with no harbour on the sea"] nell'Asia Centrale. Confina col Kazakhstan [some spell it as Kazakistan], con l'Uzbekistan, col Tagikistan e con la Cina. La sua capitale e città più grande è Biškek [transliteration weirdness, some will mistakenly write Biskek, some Bishkek]. La storia del Kirghizistan attraversa una varietà di culture e di imperi.

>>17679377
it pretty much comes down to slightly different forms and quite a lot of different vocabulary. But once you have mastered Attic to the point of being able to read the tragedians, there really shouldn't be a lot holding you back from reading Homer and Herodotus other than some funny declensions that you'll get used to. And NT Greek is even easier than Xenophon

>>17679750
>Jannach and Sandberg
Alright, I'll print these two fellas out at work tomorrow.
>and try translating some shit you care about
You got any "light" German books in mind? I read a lot of them, should I maybe try translating something like Werther?
And I definitely want listening, but that's something that I can build upon along the way

>>17679750
How many hours of work are you assuming? More or less, of course.

>>17676882
I am considering learning latin next semester: any advice?

>>17680125
1 to 2 hours daily on average. Stretched out a little thin due to my numerous other hobbies. Probably more on weekends

>>17680137
You have it all above. In short:
1. Download LLPSI and Colloquia Personarum.
2. Start reading, read as much as you can. When you don't understand shit anymore, start from the beginning.
3. After you read through a chapter, listen to recording of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7hd799IznU&list=PLU1WuLg45SiyrXahjvFahDuA060P487pV
4. Listen to these recordings while doing chores to ingrain grammar and vocab in your brain.
5. After making it thru the first part, you will now over 2000 words. It will suffice to start listening. Listen to Satura Lanx podcast. At first you won't understand shit, but you will get used to it.
6. Keep going with the second part of the book.

Also check out Magister Craft youtube channel for minecraft videos in Latin. Most of them pretty basic, all of them super fun.

Good luck.

>>17680044
Sandberg is kinda tedious in my opinion but maybe you'll like it more. I think a lot of this shit is subjective.

For light books, I say it's more of an art than science. I highly advise picking something not because it's high literary or "objectively important" but because you really truly want to rip it open and understand it. For me it was history books, particularly easy and short ones like the Kohlhammer books so it doesn't feel too daunting, but I also recommend wikipedia articles, or simply random articles on subjects you find interesting. I learned a lot by failing miserably with books that were beyond me too. I also had good luck with reading German translations from other languages, particularly books that had an English version so I could cheat by checking it when necessary. German translations from Russian seemed easier (I might be imagining this) possibly because Russian syntax is simple, and the typical German translator will follow this syntax, creating artificially (for German anyway) simple and short sentences.

Don't be afraid to suck as it. Also cheat like crazy. Use google translate for terms and whole phrases if necessary, or have a fairly literal English version of the book available so you can just consult it when you're stuck. Or just don't care when you get stuck - "comprehensible input" can be 80% or so. Use google translate to reverse engineer the sentences you are "cheating" on, so that you're actually hacking them apart to understand their grammar.

This is all how I learned. I'm impatient and ADD so I can't stand using fucking flashcards for a thousand years. I prefer to just go into the jungle with a machete and see where I get.

Another tip: You're absorbing shit even when you feel like you're struggling. Don't beat yourself up if it feels too steep. Obviously don't torture yourself with some insanely difficult book, but don't feel like you're stupid or something for being a slow learner. Your unconscious mind is always doing 5x as much as you think it's doing, always soaking things up.

>>17680125
I think this is subjective too, I'm an autist so I'm willing to do 5 chapters of Jannach a day. Right now I'm excited to have some free time soon because I fully plan to just download an entire Spanish textbook and rip through it over a few days. Whether I will be retaining everything I read is a different question, but that's how I prefer to do things. If you are the kind who prefers a tidy 30 minute session every day, you might have to plan differently.

I also think learning grammar is a cheat code. Once you learn all the usual terms, participles moods tenses voices and so on, you can just superimpose this basic pattern onto any language you're learning, and you will open any textbook like "yeah yeah yeah Mr. Rossio is going to the store with his stupid wife, tell me how Italian constructs the fucking passive already, oh I see it's quite similar to Spanish, ok."

>>17680137
Dickinson College Commentaries is a good resource

I wouldn't use LLPSI but the guy above is recommending it so you have to make your own educated guess on which one of us is right. I think the immersion method is stupid, as you can tell from my post >>17680258 I prefer to just learn grammar and then start ripping shit apart on my own. Go to wiktionary for the following verbs
>amo, amare
>video, videre
>traho, trahere
>audio, audire
and look at the full morphology charts. If you start memorising all the indicative and subjunctive (in both active and passive) endings now, you will have a head start on the tedious stuff.

When you start Latin, start a notebook page for each noun case. As you learn about different uses of that case, name them and write them under that header. Ablative of means, dative of interest, dative of possession, e.g. It will seem less daunting if you just start cataloguing them early, because you'll always know in the back of your mind "hmmm which of the 5 standard uses of the dative could this be."

>>17680137
LLPSI

>>17680206
>>17680286
Damn, you people are nice today :)

I'm learning Latin (3rd year + all 4 years of high school) and Ancient Greek (2nd year) currently for a Classical Languages degree and was wondering what unadapted books you guys would recommend for Greek. After this semester I want to practice during the Summer so that I can stay in shape, which was a problem I had when I first started learning Latin. My class currently uses Reading Greek from the JACT if that is of any help.

>>17680137
4chan is a meaningless time sink and whatever you read here is useless

>>17680327
Just read Plato.

>>17676928
>Easy
他们经常说那个。
我觉得很好。
多少?
我要剪头发

>Medium
他从来说过了那个。
我们以前星期四会完
我水平过去比较高。
你们只是人类,最终会死

>hard
不

>>17679824
mille grazie

>>17680258
>I think this is subjective too, I'm an autist so I'm willing to do 5 chapters of Jannach a day. Right now I'm excited to have some free time soon because I fully plan to just download an entire Spanish textbook and rip through it over a few days. Whether I will be retaining everything I read is a different question, but that's how I prefer to do things. If you are the kind who prefers a tidy 30 minute session every day, you might have to plan differently.

I love your attitude. I was always feeling a little bad for doing similar shit myself, like you're supposed to plan your learning, a little bit every day, blah blah blah. But I'm also a trifle autistic and maybe that's just how we are. Now I'm going to embrace it and lost myself in some Spanish reader for a few days.

>>17680327
Would either of these be helpful at all?
https://geoffreysteadman.com/xenophon-anabasis-i/

http://dcc.dickinson.edu/

>>17677419
That isn't true, it's just the language learning wiki that is particularly shit.

>>17676928
Das sagen sie oft.
Ich glaube, dass es nett ist.
Wie viel?
Es fehlt mir, meine Haare schneiden zu lassen.

Damas hat er mir das immer erzählt.
Das wird er bis Donnerstag gemacht haben.
Damals war ich besser darin.
Ihr seid nur Menschen, letztendlich werdet ihr sterben.

Die Dorische Ordnung war einer der drei Ordnungen der griechischen bzw. der römischen Architektur; die andere zwei kanonische Ordnungen waren die Ionische und die Korinthische. Die Dorische lässt sich am leichesten erkennen, aufgrund der einfachen, kreisförmigen Kapiteln auf den Säulen.
Kirgisistan, offiziell bekannt als die Kirgisische Republik, ist ein in Zentralasien legenden Binnenstaat. Es grenzt an Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tadschikistan und China. Bishkek ist die Hauptstadt und die größte Stadt des Lands. Die Geschichte Kirgisistan spannt sich über eine Vielfalt von Kulturen und Kaiserreichen.

>>17676897

For somewhere in between easy and harder novels I would recommend Wellbeck's debut novel. Chapters are only a few pages long, but the dialogue has a alot of colloquialism/slang in it.

>>17681099
I should have also mentioned that I moved onto this novel after I finished L'étranger and didn't think it was too difficult.

Heus albe, quid agis? Spirare non possum

quality thread

>>17681336
basatus

How much time/effort will it take to learn french when I master latin? french seems like barbarians speaking latin ironically

>>17682135
>french seems like barbarians speaking latin ironically
That's because it is

>>17677682
I had great results with Wheelock's but studied it autistically and really prefer its systematic approach. If you try it and don't like it, LL is probably a fine resource too
>t. classics, phil, theofag

>>17678693
Ferro is an extremely irregular verb. The last two parts were brought over from a different verb. Don't worry about it until you progress more.
In a regular verb, the four principle parts are the first person singular present active indicative, the present active infinitive, the first person singular perfect active indicative, and either the perfect passive participle (ends in -us) or the supine (ends in -um). That sounds like a lot but it's not too bad, e.g. "amo, amāre, amāvī, amatus," is "I love, to love, I loved, having been loved." From there it's a matter of knowing the various endings and infixes. Just take it slow and you'll be fine.
>>17680137
What other anons said, this man is also your friend: https://youtube.com/c/latintutorial

I started learning Latin a few months ago, setting aside an hour a night, but I only stuck with it for a few weeks. Then I switched to biblical Greek and started memorizing about a hundred vocabulary words, but now I'm wondering about Latin again.

I wish I could just stick with a language instead of starting one then starting over.

>>17683635
By the way, how long would it take for me to learn only the Psalms in Latin? Like, if I didn't want to really learn the Latin language in depth or learn to read Cicero or whatever but just learn to pray the Psalms in Latin?

Couldn't I just memorize every word in the Latin psalter, like actually just make a notecard for each one?

I already pray the English psalms regularly, finishing the book almost every month, so if I just started forcing myself to pray them in Latin would I eventually just pick it up?

>>17683687
Yes, just take a dictionary to each word and read some grammar and you could learn Latin that way.

>>17683687
John Locke unironically advises kids to learn Latin this way
>And indeed whatever stir there is made about getting of Latin as the great and difficult business, his mother may teach it him herself, if she will but spend two or three hours in a day with him, and make him read the Evangelists in Latin to her: for she need but buy a Latin Testament and read it daily.
>And when she understands the Evangelists in Latin, let her, in the same manner, read Aesop's Fables, and so proceed on to Eutropius, Justin, and other such books. I do not mention this, as an imagination of what I fancy may do, but as of a thing I have known done, and the Latin tongue with ease got this way.

>>17683687
Latin is a grammatically elegant language. Part of what makes it gratifying to read is the grammar. You should want to study the grammar to a reasonable level of depth if you want to profit the most from your studies. I don't like the recent trend at all in classical studies of neglecting grammar. It's like trying to appreciate Bach without understanding how counterpoint works. As for the Psalms, the Vulgate is generally one of the easier works to read in Latin. I think in under a year you could become skilled enough with the language to comfortably read through it with a dictionary. You could not bother with this and just memorize the text but you'd be missing out on a lot of the beauty if you did that, in my opinion.

One more quick question for the language gurus in here. Is it better to whole ass learn one language or to half ass learn two languages?

>>17683962
Be a dilettante pseud like me and try to learn 8 at the same time and get nowhere. That's the fun way to do it.

>>17683975
You only need to learn enough to be able to convincingly pretend to know the language

>>17683982
I'm autistic and am not satisfied until I can write metered poetry in the language in question while standing on my head. It's simply not enough to be able to ask for the restroom

>>17676882
Can anyone recommend a good Classical Arabic textbook?

>>17676882
Probably a retarded question but is there a "maximum" amount of time you should spend studying a language? I know that 30 mins every day is better than 8 hours once a week, but is there any downside to studying a language say 3-4 hours a day? Or will you not improve much faster than if it was just 30 mins and just risk burning out?

Should I learn Chinese or Japanese? I want to live in Asia after I finish my mathematics degree but I’m not sure where to go.

>>17684903
I think it's also better to split your study time. If you really can pull out studying at least 3 hours consistently on a daily basis, it's much more efficient study one hour in the morning, afternoon, and evening. You shouldn't burn out, but you'd better not do the same thing, such as drilling vocab, for hours straight.

>>17677936
so many people that I see are still on LLPSI after months and months of reading. i think you should really just try and fly through the grammar and move onto real Latin as early as possible, with a grammar to hand which you can reference for complex points and understand them as you go along

>>17684928
Want to read classics or manga?

>>17685438
The classics were written in literary chinese, not mandarin. Which means he could learn japanese and then use that knowledge in learning literary chinese. Literary chinese is a written language, separate from mandarin. So he can read both manga and the classics.

>>17685450
Isn't Classical Chinese more readable for a Mandarin speaker? I showed a native Chinese friend of mine the Nihon Shoki, which I assume is more difficult than the average Classical Chinese text, and he could still parse a reasonable amount, even with no practice.

>>17685777
To an extent, but not much. I should mention that mandarin characters sometimes have different meanings than the original literary ones - for example 走, which in mandarin means to walk while the literary meaning is to run. In that department Japanese has the edge, as the meanings of their kanji are more closely connected to the original literary ones; case in point, 走(る) also means to run in japanese.

>>17684928
China is the future.
Japan is a good option (only) if you are weeebo.

>>17677655
You speak Hungarian and you are crying because of French?

How realistic is the goal of learning Greek, Latin and German in 4 years?

>>17680493
Good luck fren, if there's anything I fucking regret it's not just letting myself have fun with these things over the years. I did all kinds of autistic shit like not letting myself read real Latin or Greek texts until I had mastered the textbook, as if my brain was a computer and I was trying to install the ultimate Latin/Greek decrypting algorithm on it, and it was an either/or affair - until I had the algorithm, there was no use just reading some Xenophon. It's not that I thought this consciously, it was more of an instinct thing. I just knew, somehow, that I wasn't allowed to go beyond the textbook until I definitively had my sea legs.

Now I know this is total bullshit, but only because I suffered from the consequences of being so blind.

I think the #1 thing modern language education is missing is the courage to just expose people to rigour and discipline. Every educational institution assumes you're some asshole undergrad who barely cares about the material, so all the people autistic enough to browse /lit/ are left out. The system has itself become blind to people who actually care, and so those people are never exposed to anything beyond condescending and agonisingly slow pedagogy.

When in doubt, always go off-roading. Max Weber taught himself Russian in 3 months for a goof so he could read Russian newspapers.

>>17686661
Very, any Classics major should be doing this anyway (although most won't because Classics is dying and students are shit now). Just make sure you actually start doing it. Don't put it off, don't wait for the perfect classes or the perfect times, don't expect language classes to do be synonymous with language learning either. Start doing the work. 80/20 rule, you will accomplish the most just by showing up and keeping it consistent. No matter how shitty the practice is, don't ever let more than a few days go by where you don't practice each language, particularly Greek (which is the most prone to rustiness and loss).

>>17684903
I think saturation is a perfectly good tactic for some people. What matters above all is motivation, so if doing 3-4 hours a day excites you, you will already be miles ahead of someone phoning in their 30 mins or 8 hrs or whatever, even if you have some theoretical 15% efficiency malus (which you almost certainly don't).

Most of my "language practice" is just getting enough grammar that I can start hard translating texts, and then spending half my day on 30 pages of something real. But for others maybe that's hell.

>>17682135
French sucks, it's too irregular to master with anything except practice and exposure. I can't fucking stand French. I literally do not know how or when I learned French. I just know I can read it. At some point my brain just begrudgingly accepted having to parse a soup of prepositions and relative pronouns mushed together and translate it to "which." I think French is the Romance language that most needs to be learned through exposure and practice.

Wish me luck guys, i've ordered/downloaded some books and i'm going to start Latin.

What’s the best book for French grammar?

>>17678664
Don’t worry about him anon
>He hasn’t learned about PIE yet

>>17687035
What about Le Bon Usage? That a grammar reference book written in French. You can find online, but my French is not good enough to tell you whether it's better than other resources.

I've been learning French for about 1 year now, whats the go to edition french speakers use to read Dantes Divine Comedy?

>>17687237
I'm not even kidding when I say I spoke with posters who still thought Latin as a creole of Etruscan and Greek

>>17686761
Why every Classics major should be studying German?

>>17677448
German cases are very simple desu
Try Latin

>>17677804
I personally can't learn a language that way, I have to know with precision everything I'm looking at. So I learn each grammar rule and word individually. Works a treat for me

I findreading German prose exhausting bros, I can't do it

>>17687418
The Krauts hold the crown in philology since the 19th ce.
From what I remember on the general history of this field, the Italians were #1 during the early-middle renaissance, French during the late renaissance, English during the 18th ce, and finally the Germans during the 19th ce and no one has usurped them to this day.
A colleague of mine, burger by birth, told me how in his classical Arabic class they used a German textbook, published in the early 20th ce, since it's still considered the best.

how do I into hieroglyphs

>>17688556
https://canvas.auckland.ac.nz/courses/37802/assignments/syllabus
https://www.academia.edu/22828817/Introduction_to_Middle_Egyptian_Syllabus

>>17688580
cheers!

In case someone is into biblical Hebrew

https://www.youtube.com/c/AlephwithBeth/videos

Are there languages that are primarily written rather than spoken?

>>17682952
>What other anons said, this man is also your friend: https://youtube.com/c/latintutorial
bene facis! :)

bump

>>17686761
>French sucks
qu'est que ce que c'est que ce que c'est que ce que c'est?

>>17689444
>qu'est que ce que c'est que ce que c'est que ce que c'est?
qu'est que ce que c'est que ce que c'est que ce que c'est que c'est que cela? hon hon hon

>>17689444
>>17689467
Qu'est-ce?

>>17689470
quid?

Duolingo's Latin is actually quite nice

>>17689946
It's woefully incomplete but a decent start I suppose

Recommendations for easy books to read for learners of Chinese or German? I mean like childrens books.

>>17689946
please no

What's the hardest language to learn which has a worthwhile literary corpus? (so no Swahili or Zulu any of that shit). I want to be challenged.

>>17685450
Kanbun isn't exactly the same as reading it in a Chinese dialect. Even though it's diverged a lot, many rhymes and soundplay still exist in the Chinese languages which would be lost if you tried reading it the Japanese way.

>>17690130
Depending on your definition of worthwhile, probably Classical Chinese. You'll never really learn it and the chinks won't help much because they all think they know it, but don't, and they're actively hostile to outsiders. Even if you do learn it it will take 30 years of painful work to even have an opinion about some random legalist text from the 400s BC. And the chinks will spit on you and denigrate your opinion anyway. Also you have to spend that 30 years talking to them and associating with them to assimilate the language which is a unique kind of hell.

>>17690130
Sanskrit or Ancient Greek.

>>17690158
Yeah I think I'll pass on classical Chinese lmao

>>17680286
>I think the immersion method is stupid, as you can tell from my post >>17680258 I prefer to just learn grammar and then start ripping shit apart on my own. Go to wiktionary for the following verbs
I'm currently on chapter 23 of LLPSI and thinking of switching to this method. At first, like everyone else, I thought that LLPSI was the greatest thing ever, but now I'm becoming disillusioned. I'm tired of getting holed up on chapters for days because of confusion over something I could have understood easily with a one paragraph english explanation, but input people seem almost religious in their hatred of grammar and translation. I now think that the cause of all those horror stories where people study Latin for 12 years and still can't read it isn't because they used the grammar method, but because they used the grammar method and then kept translating and never even tried to use the grammar as a stepping stone to extensive reading. I ordered Latin: An Intensive Course by Floyd Moreland and Rita Fleischer that I was planning to use after LLPSI as a supplement to make sure I understand all the grammar, but now I'm considering quitting LLPSI and just switching to it to try and get to reading original Latin texts as fast as possible.

>>17677475
>caring what some 70IQ enlightenment faggot norf has to day about anything

>>17690210
Pars I: Latine Disco: Student’s Manual may help. It has a more in depth grammar explanations in English which can supplement the Latin only ones in FR.
I also agree that the immersion technique isn't enough. I personally used Wheelock's with LLPSI eodem tempore.

>>17690130
Not actually a language but everything related to Cuneiform should be about as convoluted and fucked as it gets

>>17690400
There's an anon here who's learning Babylonian and who was talking about the suffering of having to learn Cuneiform in a thread one time. Doesn't sound fun at all but it would make you feel pretty smug to be able to do it.

>>17690363
>>17690210
Yea do not attempt LLPSI without the Enchiridion/Latine Disco. I went to Vivarium (entire course is in Latin) and they told us to use the Latine Disco after EVERY chapter. Best of both worlds, you know the grammer explicitly after internalizing it.

>>17677072
>>17677402
>>17677503
Based

>>17677682
much worse than Lingua Latina

>>17690363
>>17690476
Thanks I'll try this, honestly not sure how I didn't already know about it. I've gotten this far relying mostly on the fact that I already knew the basics.

One of my professors wants to teach me Latin, Greek, and Egyptian Hieroglyphics over the summer. I assume that it would be one at a time to start, but I could be mistaken. I also wouldn't expect to get more than a basic foundational understanding at best over the course of a couple months, unless I work especially hard. Anyway, how quickly can one expect to go from little-to-no understanding of these languages to being able to read actual texts (Caesar, Cicero, Aristotle, etc.) when combining instruction with hard work?

>>17676928
Kind of bored, ill do this I guess
>>Easy
Costumam dizer isso
Acho que é bom
Quanto?
Preciso de cortar o meu cabelo
>>Medium
Ele sempre me dizia isso
Vamos tê-lo completo até quinta
Eu era melhor
Sois apenas humanos, morrereís no fim
>>Hard
>The Doric order was one of the three orders of ancient Greek and later Roman architecture; the other two canonical orders were the Ionic and the Corinthian. The Doric is most easily recognized by the simple circular capitals at the top of columns.
A ordem doric era uma das três ordens de arquitectura da Grécia antiga e depois da arquitectura romana; as outras ordens eram ionic e corinthian. A doric é mais facilmente reconhecida pelos topos redondos e simples em cima das colunas
>Kyrgyzstan, officially the Kyrgyz Republic, also known as Kirghizia, is a landlocked country in Central Asia. It is bordered by Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and China. Its capital and largest city is Bishkek. Kyrgyzstan's history spans a variety of cultures and empires
O Quirguistão, oficialmente a República do Quirguistão, também conhecido como quirguizia(?), é um país sem litoral na Ásia central. Tem uma fronteira com Cazaquistão (não vale a pena traduzir os nomes) e China. A história do Quirguistão envolve uma variedade de culturas e impérios

Not a fan of the last 2, too much specific and mostly useless vocabulary

>>17690836
Forgot a sentence
>Its capital and largest city is Bishkek.
A sua capital e maior cidade é Bishkek

>>17690754
Based on my experience, in american unis, they expect you to be able to read Vergil in the original after 4 semesters (2 years). Idk for Greek or Ancient egyptian although I safely suspect it'll take longer. Even then, after two years, it'll still take more to build a massive vocabulary and fluent reading skills.

How do I bridge the gap from working through a textbook to reading an actual text? I feel like LLPSI has not prepared me for De Bello Gallico.

>>17690931
Thanks anon, that's about what I would expect. What's different, in this case, is that it sounds like this would be a private tutorage. I figure that'll help me correct my problems and answer my questions much more efficiently, but I figure that this will only last a few months at best.

>>17690944
Instead of jumping directly to a classical text, back when I was learning(still am) I translated a graded text which if I'm not mistaken was made for French college students back in the 18th century. I'm talking about Lhomond's De viris illustribus urbis Romae a Romulo ad Augustum, you can find it on wikisource and it's basically a little story of Rome as the name says written in a more intermediate Latin. After I did that I was able to slowly work my way through de bello Gallico, with the help of dictionaries
https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/De_viris_illustribus_urbis_Romae_a_Romulo_ad_Augustum/Romani_imperii_exordium

>>17690944
Dickinson

>>17690944
Reread chapters from Familia Romana that are still hazy to you until you can fully understand the grammar and check out Fabulæ Syræ (can get on libgen) which is also published by the LLPSI people. A note of warning, FS is a jump in difficulty syntax wise but it will further engage the brain to notice all the grammar you were taught. Also, it has the added bonus of providing interesting material (essentially the myths of Ovid in prose summaries).
Good luck and remember to reread. Just because you've finished a chapter once doesn't mean your brain automatically knows how to process the grammar. Oh, and build vocab.

>>17690836
>Eu era melhor

I'd say

>Eu costumava ser melhor
or
>Ja fui melhor
lacking an accent on A from JA because Jap keyboard, don't mind that..

I want to learn Russian but have no real idea of what kind of content I could consoom in the language, other than some old(ish) literature and some movies...

>>17691048
>read and reread LLPSI until you get it
I've found this approach frustrating and not very helpful. If I read a sentence and can't parse it, rereading it with no additional information doesn't give me any new insight. When I try reading an actual text, I can at least look up a translation and work backwards to figure it out.

Is there any site or app that's useful for drilling translation exercises?

>>17691200
Obrigado pela ajuda amigo, até estou surpreendido que não comentaste sobre o meu uso de "vós"

>>17691259
Maybe this might be of interest to you?
http://dcc.dickinson.edu/caesar/book-1/chapter-1-1
There are other books as well, of course.

>>17691259
Could you give an example of a sentence bothering you? As for exercises, there is a Pars I: Exercitia Latina I. You can also use wheelock's which explicitly teaches you how to translate.
If you're getting stuck it's because you either haven't fully grasped the grammar lesson of a previous chapter or you haven't done so for the current one.

What's the best textbook for learning French?

>>17690422
>you will never shitpost in Sumerian.

>>17692929
Have you tried the Assimil one?

>>17692993
We have people shitpost in Greek and Latin sometimes. Perhaps one day /lit/ will become so big brained as to shitpost in Sumerian. You never know.

>>17694129
ποτὲ, ἀνώνυμε, ποτὲ οὕτως ἔσται

>>17676897
It's not a French book so I don't know if it counts, but I recently started reading Pessoa's Book of Disquiet in french translation (Le livre de l'intranqilite) and it's a comfy and simple read. I would estimate my french level to be around B2.

>>17692929
>>17694089
Assimil is alright, also check out Le Français par la Methode Nature on youtube

>>17692929
English grammar for students of French

Perfect if you're a grammar brainlet. I fucking hated it, but at least after reading it I can tell you what a subject is, without having known it before.

If I have a collection of songs within the same music genre and I want to create multiple playlists to tackle the issue of each song having contrasting meanings, can I, in the description, write "Medium: Melancholy."? Would Medium work? If so, do semicolons work there? Perhaps you have better ideas. I want it to look clean and beautiful, aesthetics are pretty important for me.

>>17676882
Just took the NLE. Anyone else take it?

>>17692929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uS5WSeH8iM&list=PLf8XN5kNFkhdIS7NMcdUdxibD1UyzNFTP

PDF to be found on libgen.

For Classical Chinese, I have a question.
With Latin, we have various revival groups and church bodies that try to revive Latin as a spoken language.
Is there any such thing with Classical Chinese? Some anon said earlier that it was entirely a written language. Is there any spoken form that is used, even by a few?

>>17696207
No, Classical Chinese is entirely a written form of communication. In the foreword to A New Practical Primer of Literary Chinese, Rouzer points out that, since it was a language capable of representing complex ideas with a rich vocabulary, alongside not being phonetically based, it made it easier for other nations to adopt and thus develop their own cultural literacy. It could also function as a means of international communication (like the letters between Kublai Khan and the Japanese Emperor under the Mongol Invasion of Japan). In this way it's the same as Latin; however, Literary Chinese has no "authentic" way of being pronounced (as mentioned earlier). Most (western) scholars do use the mandarin readings though. Since I know japanese, I use the jap readings through "kanbun".

Hypothetically speaking, assuming I'm an autist who can study for 4 hours a day - how long would it take to go from a beginner level to reading Dostoevsky in Russian?

Asking for a friend haha

>>17690754
I might skin you and make a bodysuit

I cant pick a language i am such a pleb.

>>17697225
then go with French.

Amicos non habeo

>>17697562
Ne desperaveris, anonime, hic nullus eos habet

>>17677448
you can learn it as you go
>i don't understand this sentence, let me check grammar

>>17677766
>But you literally can't do much if you don't sit down and go through a lot of grammar exercises.
the existence of millions of ESLs that learned English by just playing video games proves you wrong

>>17677834
i'll just leave this here:
https://youtu.be/_Zt19wzsW-c

>>17697225
go with Latin, ignore the frog >>17697340

>>17697562
Possum esse amicus

>>17697562
Pugnōs meōs ēdēs, ō rāna foede

>>17690476
>I went to Vivarium
Did you go to the intensive course or were you accepted into the full, one-year one?

I'm doing some work in my Latin textbook and got to this exercise, translate: servum poetae docebimus. But it doesn't seem to make any sense, docebimus is 'we shall teach' and servum is 'slave' as the direct object, but why is poetae 'poets' as the subject in there? Isn't 'we' the subject?

Thread for books in latin >>17697949

Does Dutch have any literature?

>>17697999
literally just google "dutch literature"

>>17697985
For first-declension nouns, the ending "-ae" can denote one of three cases. What cases might "poetae" be in? Of those cases, which makes the most sense given context?

>>17697985
poetae can be genitive/dative singular or nominative plural. We can rule out nominative plural since the verb is in the 1st person plural so let's try the other two.
1) we shall teach the slave to poet
2) we shall teach the poet's slave
My money is on #2, poetae == genitive singular.

>>17698015
Up to the point I'm at in the textbook the only cases I've been taught that would apply are nominative and vocative, it certainly couldn't be nominative as 'we' is the subject, but could it be vocative?

>>17698043
>>17698087
Sorry you're actually correct, I hadn't checked genitive singular. Thank you.

>>17691264
You're trying to learn EU Portuguese right?

>>17696887
anyone?

>>17698087
This is probably not the case but it could also go with nos: "We, the poets,..."

>>17697225
What are you trying to pick based on? You could just go with whatever sounds the best to you.

>>17678898
What's a good Anki for german philosophy and lit?

>>17698087
What kind of a textbook doesn't teach you all the cases of a declension at once?

>>17698444
Anki is shit

>>17698570
>Quizlet has deposited one dogecoin into your wallet

>>17698119
Sim estou, mas é um pronome arcaico em toda a lusofonia, não é?
És brasileiro?

>>17697562
quondam amicos habuisse, quondam amicitam sapivisse, peius est.. nunc solus sum, in aeternum solus sum

>>17676882
Ancient Greek and it's such a tedious chore but there are some words that are so beautiful and that makes it worth it. Reading it is fun even though difficult at times.

>>17699074
Da culum tuum mihi et deinde amicus tibi ero

>>17699644
sed culum mentulamque mihi dolent propter quod heri fecimus. miserere mei amcie

>>17699668
non rogo sed impero quia dominus sum. noli vereri. benignus sum et culum tuum magna cum cura lente futuam.

>>17680310
What's this? Is that the modern learning book which is entirely in Latin? Langua Paterna or whatever it is...

>>17699726
anon..ingeniculo. tibi culum ostendam. cum eo, face quod vis. ut lenis sis (o me miserum!) spero fore. nam tu es dominus, sed benignus dominus

>>17676928
oни чacтo cкaзят чтo
я дyмaю чтo этo пpиoтний
cкoлкo c мeня
мнe нyжнo peзaт мoи вoлocы

oн вceгдa был мнe cкaзaл чтo
мы бyдим cдeлaт этo дo чeтвepг
я был лyчшe
вы тoлкa чeлoвeк кoнeц вы yмиpим

monkaS

>>17698444
Highly recommend making all your own Anki cards. Tedious until you get the hang of it but I think the retention is 100x better.

>>17699770
ita...ita...id mihi magnopere placet...voca me dominus dum culuum tumm futuo...tam dulces fututiones erunt ut culus tuus numquam fatiget...

>>17699739
yup "Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata"

>>17676930
No, but tell us about it, if you're still around.

>>17698822
Sim, vos e arcaico
(novamente, nao consigo usar acentos pois meu teclado e Japones...).

Sou Brasileiro. Nao costumo postar aqui mas resolvi ajudar pois nao havia visto alguem aprendendo Portugues no /lit/ ainda, somente no /int/.

O seu nivel de Portugues (escrito) parece muito bom anon, Parabens.

>>17690131
Who cares, all these rhymes are lost in modern Pekinese pronunciation as well.

1 hour of latin with Lingua Latina
1 hour of italian athenaze
1 hour of my hebrew text book
every day

I already took the courses and studied the grammar rather intensely- I guess now I'm learning to integrate it all so I can read well in each of them

t. aspiring amateur biblical scholar

>>17699985
>somente no /int/.
Sou o mesmo gajo, como eu disse, fiquei aborrecido e resolvi vir cá e fazer o desafio. Estou a tentar ler mais literatura em português mas ainda tenho dificuldades
>O seu nivel de Portugues (escrito) parece muito bom anon, Parabens.
Obrigado amigo, agradeço

>>17700069
why would you study latin and not greek for biblical study

>>17700512
Anon, Athenaze is Greek...

>>17700544
I noticed that after i posted
Is it any good for a beginner? from what I've looked up its a similar style to lingua latina. I've been wanting to start learning a classical language (preferably greek) but Ive heard such high praise for lingua latina I want to try latin just for that

>>17700502
O que voce pretende ler?

>>17700572
There's also Alexandros which is as close to LLPSI as it gets, but for this you need a teacher. For that check out Scorpio Martianus youtube channel, where he teaches Greek in Latin using that book. That is if you can make out spoken Latin. And if you can't, learn it. Listening is important with any language, be it even a "dead" one. Start with the satura lanx podcast for beginners if you're through with LLPSI or near the end and work your way up. Also check up Magister Craft on YT. It's rudimental but super fun.

Oh, and as for Hebrew, there's this Aleph with Beth youtube channel, which is a godsent.

Good luck.

>>17700572
Check out this two vids that review ancient Greek textbooks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0W0rgKnuuiU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JY6pucMUjKI

>>17700572
Greek is not a beginner's language. You should tackle Latin first, it's so much easier, it teaches you how to learn these things and what a synthetic language is. (Which for anglos is a great pitfall.) And, finally, it unlocks some good resources for Greek.

Start with the Romans :P

>>17700677
I honestly find Latin harder than Greek

>>17700676
That Polis book looks good. Any one used it before?

>>17700687
I don't know how it's possible considering the huge overlap of vocab between Latin and English. Also its grammar is more regular.

>>17698388
I basically have 3-4 languages that i flutter between or consider.
Chinese because there is such a backlog of near untranslatable literature, history and poetry. A little bonus is china becoming a superpower however i have no interest in visiting modern china or talking to Chinese people. Very difficult lang though.
Italian because my family is Italian and i may get citizenship one day, but i dont really have any Italian interests other than following Italian insta thots. Easy lang
Russian because i find Russian politics interesting and there is a lot of very great literature but unlike Chinese a lot is decently translated. Russians are also great people and Russians pirate like no other. Somewhere in between Chinese and Italian in terms of difficulty.
Then there are languages like Hindi, Farsi, Arabic, Greek, which interest me on an "exotic" level or because i have a small interest in, eg Greek history or Persian poetry.
I can never decide

>>17701165
It's not so much the language as the style. I find Latin writers tend to be more stylistically obscure than Greek ones. Greek also has lots of particles to guide you and an article which simplifies noun parsing immensely. Word formation is more straightforward too. The hardest thing about Greek is the vocabulary. There's so much of it it's daunting. There's lots of morphology sure, but a lot of it hardly ever gets used.

>>17701388
Remember that you can learn more than one. To me it sounds like your best option is to learn either Italian or Russian first and then Chinese. It's most about which one you would be motivated enough to actually learn all the way. Italian would probably be the best for that because presumably you have family members you can talk to practice in and you could set it as your goal to be able to talk to a certain person in their language, but if you're more interested in Russian I'd say do that one first. Chinese like you said is the hardest, and that means that as your first second language you might get overwhelmed or too intimidated and give up. I also have interest in "exotic" languages like Irish and ancient Greek, but I know I'm not currently interested in them enough that if I started learning them I would finish them. Personally if I were you I'd go with Russian.

>>17676928
a menudo dicen que
creo que es bonito
¿cuánto?
necesito cortarme el pelo

él siempre solía decirme que
haremos hecho para el jueves
yo solía ser mejor
sois sólo humanos, al final moriréis

imma just deepL translate these...
El orden dórico era uno de los tres órdenes de la antigua arquitectura griega y posteriormente romana; los otros dos órdenes canónicos eran el jónico y el corintio. El dórico se reconoce más fácilmente por los sencillos capiteles circulares en la parte superior de las columnas.
Kirguistán, oficialmente la República Kirguisa, también conocida como Kirghizia, es un país sin salida al mar de Asia Central. Limita con Kazajstán, Uzbekistán, Tayikistán y China. Su capital y mayor ciudad es Bishkek. La historia de Kirguistán abarca diversas culturas y imperios

listening to PodiumArts recordings. I bought the whole Apology and the first rhapsody of the Odyssey

>>17697959
summer intensive. Wife wont let me go for the full year lmao

>>17703335
I fucked up everyone, accidentally posted a new bread. let this one die
>>17702940

>>17703335
Not interested in participating but still would like to know: what's the cost?

>>17703395
It was last year during the pandemic online and it was i think 1300 euros all together. A little expensive but miles cheaper than any american program

>>17703788
thanks, pal!

>>17676882
Any advice to learn Greek and improve on my Latin? I know French, Dutch, Armenian, English andLatin btw.

>>17700645
>O que voce pretende ler?
Muitos dos clássicos, ultimamente estou a tentar ler Mensagem do Fernando Pessoa. Ainda que não seja bem uma história, é mais uma coleção de poemas

>>17704018
For Latin: listen. That's usually the missing ingredient.

Thoughts on this audio course for Latin?

.

>>17698444
for anki to be effective you basically have to build your own decks

>>17676882
eu nao falo portuguese bom. no bom. meu vocabularo pequno. eu muito stupido e um boba. eu ler cinto livros hoje. amanha eu ler mutio. ontem eu ler muito. eu amore russa livros de 19th centuro. eu vai estudo portugues hoje.

>>17704743
you forgot the pic

>>17700011
Li Bai's 靜夜思
牀前明月光
疑是地上霜
舉頭望山月
低頭思故鄉

Medieval reconstruction:
dzrang3 dzan4 meing3a ngwat3a kwang1
ngi3d dzyí3b drì3c dzyàng3 srang3
kúo3b dou1 màng3 sran2b ngwat3a
tei4 dou1 si3d kùo1 hang3

Standard Mandarin:
Chuáng qián míng yuè guāng,
Yí shì dì shàng shuāng.
Jǔ tóu wàng shān yuè,
Dī tóu sī gù xiāng.

Japanese kanbun:
牀前 月光を看る
疑うらくは是 地上の霜かと
頭を挙げて 山月を望み
頭を低れて 故鄕を思う
shouzen gekkou wo miru
utagouraku ha kore chijou no shimo kato
koube wo agete sangetsu wo nozomi
koube wo tarete kokyou wo omou

Not looking down on you for reading Chinese poetry in Japanese, only for making confident falsehoods.

>>17705872
Porque é que estás a estudar o português?
Entendi o que escreveste mas tens de praticar muito mais por assim dizer

>>17676882
How easy is it to learn Japanese.

Bump

>>17707208
自分で見てみろ

>>17681336
kek

>>17706311
Do you have any resources on this Medieval reconstruction?
How common is this reconstructed pronunciation and do people "use" it?
I'm unsure how Classical Chinese is viewed culturally but assuming it is like Latin, are there still works being written in the language?

Anyone notice that spending a lot of time with one language can affect your performance in other languages? Often after reading a lot of Latin and then writing in English I leave out articles without even realizing it and sometimes prepositions and entire words too which would be superfluous in Latin

>>17706311
This is a tang dynasty poem though, if we're talking about earlier stuff like the 诗经 or stuff around the han dynasty, he's right that alot of the original rhymes have been lost

>>17708836
>Do you have any resources on this Medieval reconstruction?
chinese scholars started making rime tables around this time to record data about pronouncation, and this is when alot of the major chinese dialects started to diverge, and also when china began exporting it's language to japan, so there's alot of data to go off of, you can probably get a pretty accurate reconstruction of tang-era chinese, but any earlier than that and it's basically just speculation

obviously most people don't really use it though, if they recite poems they just use modern mandarin pronouncation, or some other chinese dialect

i don't really think there's works still being written in legit classical chinese, but chinese kids are still forced to learn it (Like slaves lol) and alot of chinese pop culture, like historical games and dramas, uses a type of a language that is kinda like classical chinese, though obviously different

>>17701388
>Very difficult lang though.
this is a meme
within 1-2 years of concentrated study, you can probably read 水浒传(water margin) with a little effort (granted it is the easiest of the 4 classics)
chinese isn't "hard", it's just grinding hanzi for years mostly, speaking well takes effort tho

classical chinese is hard, but this isn't because classical chinese is inherently hard (alot of historical texts are quite easy to read) but more because the entire chinese literary tradition is, to a certain extent, a circlejerk of other scholars jacking each other off with references, flowery prose and opaque writing, this is especially prevelant in older philisophical texts and poetry
even chinese scholars wrote tons of commentaries on warring states era texts debating on exactly what the fuck they were trying to say
also consider that the a large part of imperial-era chinese education was just memorizing these texts for years, and you understand where this kinda thing comes from

>>17709199
Thanks anon. That's very fascinating.

>>17708990
Is English your first language?

>>17706311
to be clear, that wasn't me you were responding to (the kanbun guy)

>>17709613
Yeah. It's almost jarring coming back to it after spending a longtime in a heavily inflected language like Latin. You just leave shit out without even realizing it and your brain has to adjust again, if only for a moment.

/Lang/ has died on /int/ due to schizo posting. I'll be handing in my application for refugee status here.

>>17710025
Welcome, please help us keep it rolling. I like this idea.

>>17676928
Illud dicunt saepe.
penso bonus est.
quantum?
debeo capillum meum secare.

semper me dicabat illud.
illud facerimus marte.
eram melior.
sola humana estis, moriemini in fine.

ordo Dorici unus trium architecturae Graecae antiquae Romanaeque posterioris; duo alii ordines Ionic et Corinthia erant. Doric facilior agnosticur est ab capitalis circulis simplis ad vertice columnis.
Cba for the last one.

How can I hate and love a language so much at the same time.

>>17677021
Wiktionary is good. Personally, I made my own which I could say out loud: NAGDA. I don't really bother with vocative.
>>17677682
Everyone goes on about LL but I prefer the structured, study - oriented approach of Wheelock. That being said, it can get much harder much faster, but it's not terrible like everyone's saying.

>>17677565
French second language here, I'm gonna have to say that from my experience Houellebecq is not actually that easy to read, partly due to his philosophical musings and as well due to his heavy use of everyday language which is very difficult to translate to English and native English speakers would never have been exposed to it.
There are clearer French writers out there.

>>17710397
I use NAGDIP for Russian. Mnemonics are fun.

I also like structure best. Shelmerdine was my favourite book but I prefer Cambridge's texts (first 4 volumes).

>>17710409
The Cambridge texts are well comfy for complete beginners. Fun stories that don't repeat themselves a million times like with LL.

>>17677055
the grammar method is rather new.

Learning anything but English is a pretentious waste of time.

>>17677055
Sounds based. He seems to be arguing against authors of the time who made their students wrack their brains over single words.
That's how I'm doing Latin now, through translating medieval/renaissance authors and then looking at the translations to see how I did. Roman texts are way too hard.

>>17710469
NEW BREAD
>>17710661
>>17710661
>>17710661

>>17676928
>medium

mihi semper dicebat
Iovis die complerimus
melior eram
solum hominem estis, mortuus fueritis in fine

can experienced latinfag rate?

>>17677419
use the archive. reason it sucks now is because it is filled with 40iq niggers like yourself