/lit/ - Literature

>Hey everyone I dismissed this out of hand please give me validation.
Only a right winger..

>>17633526
Maybe just read the books in which these arguments are made. Here's a starter to the male privilege stuff. If you desire, you can probably read it in one sitting.

the biggest, densest book so that you may bludgeon them to death with it, make it a bible just in case

Discourse is for fucking faggots

>>17633526
Your first mistake was thinking those kinds of people can be reasoned with.

>>17633553
Why would I want to read some ideological rambling with no scientific or historical basis?

>>17633543
How am I a right winger?

>>17633526
Here you go

Just watch some YouTube videos.

>>17633576
How can you expect to understand the people you want to criticize if you won't even touch their work with a ten foot pole?

>>17633576
>why would i hear the argument before making up my opinion on them
Just how sad is it to be you?

>>17633596
>>17633595

I think their ideology is relatively simple though, white people and men have inherent privilege through their white skin and male gender. What is their to understand?

>>17633572
Pretty much this, most of these people talking about privilege theory, critical race theory, and all other intersectional grievances are just using it as way to extort money and power. If you don’t accept blank slate theory and the belief that all humans have exactly the same abilities it all falls apart.

>>17633526
Unironically Uncle Ted's ISAIF. These arguments come from a feeling of inferiority. The art hoe hates the independent successful white man because she knows she is inferior. So she convinces herself that his successes must be from some societal force rather than his own accomplishments.

>>17633610
>white people and men have inherent privilege through their white skin and male gender

And work ethic and the construction of modern, long standing civilization and just about everything else you take for granted

If you apply the "white privilege" idea to white working classes you eventually end up with a conservative/right-wing understanding of poverty. "You have all the privileges of white people bestowed upon you and yet you're still poor". Poverty is seen as a personal failing rather than a result of structured inequality.

>>17633589
Maybe some of this too

>>17633572
I'm afraid this is true. Although you might be able to convince people who are still on the fence, those who have been exposed to the ideology for too long eventually become completely immune to counterarguments. They will go as far as to attack open discourse itself, because they've conceptualized everything as a power struggle between various identity groups; discourse is a means to an end, and the end is power. They don't even believe in the concept of truth, and will view your arguments as a cynical attempt of subversion that needs to be nipped in the bud.

Take the book "White fragility", one of the most popular non-fiction books in years. Its central premise is a Kafka-trap: if you get accused of showing white fragility, any form of rebuttal is itself seen as your white fragility manifesting itself. This turns what is essentialy a valid claim (some white people are super reactionary when talking about race) into a cynical rhetorical device used to silence the opposition. This is the game they play. It isn't about truth, it's about winning the argument by any means necessary.

>>17633526
Read Nietzsche and adopt master morality. The dirty secret of progressives is that they have no argument for why "privilege'" is bad. The reason they've conned most Americans as to thinking such is due to progressivism being an extension of retarded boomer bootstaps mentality of which "hard work" and "overcoming oppression" are values in themselves. True master moralist know that things such as privilege, entitlement and birthright are everything in a person and that appeals to "worker harder" is the cope of slaves.

>>17633582
Sorry third positionist*

nobody will support you openly so it's waste of time

>>17633610
and do you disagree with these assessments?

>>17633824
Death to America

>>17633617
Uncle Ted was right about a lot of things.

>>17633762
>Nietzsche
More like Neet-shit. He was literally a welfare queen who defended slavery. He got half of his understanding of philosophy through history of philosophy books (basically the equivalent of Philosophy Tube at that time) and he didn’t even read Kant or Spinoza and died of syphilis because he fucked filthy prostitutes. What an absolute fucking charlatan.

>>17633882
>He was literally a welfare queen who defended slavery.
I don’t give a shit slave-boy. I support slavery myself.

>>17633893

>>17633910
See, it’s like I said. You have no argument. Can appeal to boomerism.
>slavery bad that’s why uncle Abe freed da slaves
Why should I care? I’d own slaves if I could. I’d enslave all your asses. I have absolutely no moral qualms against slavery.

>>17633934
>bro what’s your arguments against me raping a child? That’s slave morality lmao.

>>17633576
>Why would I want to read some ideological rambling with no scientific or historical basis?
You made this thread asking for exactly that

>>17633526
If you read them you wouldn't have much trouble refuting them. They all start out with fairly innocuous claims (some white people are way too defensive talking about race, how much money your parents have is a major contributor to life outcomes, etc) and then blow them up into comical, far reaching claims that seek to discredit all white people/all men/etc. The whole genre does not produce substansive work - unless you're a pseud you could come up with a decent counterargument after a half-hearted read.

That said you're a big idiot if you think knowing how to refute these arguments will somehow help you. Professionally and personally, its always best to publicly agree with whatever the current trend is so you win woke points. The woke left has already proven completely ineffective at enacting real change even when they had an issue most of the US supported for a few months (police reform after Floyd). I'd spend more time learning how to grift from it than refute it if I were you.

>>17633946
you're a midwit. Rape has been illegal and taboo since pre-history. Every society and peoples have laws or taboos against rape. Meanwhile, slavery has been practiced by every people since pre-history, was supported by all major religions including Christianity. It's supported in the Bible, both Old and New testament. Slavery has only been seen as "evil" since the 19th century. To compare slavery to child rape is peak midwit. You're all a bunch of retards and that's that.

>>17633526
they aren't arguments, they're religious doctrine. it's not hard to "counter" them because they were founded solely on the basis to radicalize people into Marxists.

Depends on what the argument is.

A lot of the time it's kafkatraps or genetic fallacies.

>>17633526
Unironically the same books that define those terms. "Privilege" is not exclusive to a group that's better off by your arbitrarily selected metric. There is a "privilege" for literally every single role in a society, although you'll have a hard time convincing ideologues that not being associated with insane crime stats is a deserved privilege.

>>17633977
>Rape has been illegal and taboo since pre-history. Every society and peoples have laws or taboos against rape.
Why does that make it not ok? Would it be ok to rape a slave?

>>17633977
Is this ok with you?

>>17633853
Of course

>>17634025
Yes.

>>17634058
Revolting

>>17634067
>Revolting

>>17634053
Do you understand why others believe them? What specifically about their reasons do you disagree with?

I disagree (largely) with their views as well, but I almost never find a poster on 4chan who actually understands what it is the other group believes.

>>17634074
Dude you think fucking twelve year olds is fine get a grip

>>17634074
lolwut

>>17634074
You literally have no moral compass. Was it ok for Muhammed to marry a 6 year old and fuck her when she was 9 (stuff like this was common in all cultures at the time)?

>>17633572
This, just kill them.

>>17633624
that's because it is.

>>17634090
>>17634088
>>17634081
Pleb filtered

>>17634105
He's a real modern diogenes

>>17633526
I don't know, I stopped arguing with those types who whine about muh hwite males.

>>17634095
Go back to Facebook, boomer

>>17634009
I feel like not answering this since as far as I'm concerned I've presented why your statement was silly and now you're just moving the goalpost from apriori "slavery bad" to getting into the nitty gritty of how I would personally handle the institution of slavery if I was dictator or something. It's a sort of perspective which is imponent. As far as I see it, slavery is like "taxes" or "speedlimits" or anything else. slavery existed for a reason, and there were laws and customs which regulated it it. I don't believe people should abuse one another but see slavery inherently abusive if done in a certain manner. I'm not against slavery anymore than i'm against paying taxes or driving speed limits, but obviously there is a right and wrong way to go about it. I would have no problem owning slaves if it was legal, and don't find it inherently immoral. that's it.
>>17634081
I've been a supporter of lolicon and greek pederasy for years. more midwittery from an obvious twitter tourist.
>>17634116
I'm a hobo who lives in a barrel?

>>17634178
>I'm a hobo who lives in a barrel?
Serious question, are you autistic? You didn't seem to understand the social analogy
I've read that most institutionalized pedophiles are severely lacking in IQ and social ability but there's definitely some reverse survivorship bias

>>17634207
12 years old is hebephilia not pedophillia. Objectively speaking. It's not up for debate. Are you a hysterical woman who's driven by pathos instead of reason?

>>17633526
You don't need books for that. Just observe reality.

>>17634228
The important part is that you are a wretch, details are unimportant

>>17633729
>This is the game they play. It isn't about truth, it's about winning the argument by any means necessary.

>>17634178
How old is too young for you?

>>17634234
Most of this stuff is men fucking over other men

>>17634243
oh, woe is me. It appears I have violated the most sacred cows of society.
>Slavery? Hebephillia? How can anyone defend t h o s e? or at least, how can anyone have a nuanced view?
>Surely these are the most mortal sins, the most evil of all evil. The greatest threat to mankind and human flourishing.
Alas, for you see I am a true free thinker. I real intellectual rebel. I don't get soros bux or zucc bux or whoever else astroturfs intellectual thought of our era. I'm just simple man living an examined life. Not a wretch.

>>17634286
>Most of this stuff is privileged men fucking over not so privileged men
ftfy

>>17634287
Just saying that you are a threat against peaceful life.

Good for you saying this shit on an anonymous image board. If I knew you in real life I would definitely spread the word to promote safety in my community

>>17633975
I can't bring myself to read things like that as it just annoys me too much and makes me lose hope in the way the West is heading.

>>17634361
"I come to bring not peace but the sword" - Jesus Christ.

>>17633526

>>17634076
>Do you understand why others believe them?
Not really. If I was to guess because they like being a victim. It simplifies all of history to good guys vs bad guys. It makes them feel smart without having to read or study, some Twitter posts will do. People are generally easily led by what they see on social media and the powers that be don't allow any counterargument to take place.

>What specifically about their reasons do you disagree with?
Male/white privilege promotes tribalism, hatred of whites and males, makes a mockery of the entire male working class which is the majority of men. Puts Kings on the same level as Serfs.

>>17634383
Literally who

>>17634383
I'll be taking a sword to your neck for sure

>>17634387
>Not really
but you just said above that it was relatively simple? but you don't actually understand it?
>If I was to guess because they like being a victim
that's more of a meta-analysis, not the direct things that they discuss. whether it's true or not, you need to understand the /direct/ given reasons to actually be in a position to make the meta-analytic claim with any certainty
>Male/white privilege promotes tribalism
This isn't a common claim
>hatred of whites and males
This is not how they view it, and in the most generous cases, it's not even true. Definitely many SJWs /do/ hate whites and males, and far more don't hate exactly, but resent or disdain them. But that's not really related to the core beliefs, more of a strong correlation.

I disagree with most of it, but people like you who don't understand it at all just do a disservice to everyone. The fact that you and others don't understand their positions makes them feel justified in calling anyone who disagrees with them ignorant. Obviously, if you don't even understand what they're arguing for, they're not going to give any merit to your argument against -- because your argument is just based on a strawman

>>17633624
Kek, perfect

>>17634481
How would you answer those questions then?

>>17634531
This is too broad of a question to really answer well as there are so many specific beliefs that I could respond to, but I'll try to say some. I'd say I do agree with their observations but I don't agree with their conclusions or methods for trying to solve them. I agree that it is far harder for a black person to succeed than it is for a white person. Similarly, for a man than a woman. I agree that this is unfair and is to a significant degree a result of structural issues that no individual can easily bypass. This all being predicted from birth, I mean. However, I think advocates here tend to attribute most of these problems to later in life, things that can be fixed or accounted for in adults, eg by convincing more black people to go into STEM fields, or through affirmative action. However, I think that by the point people are 18, it's too late to change things significantly. High school graduation rates are abysmal in black communities, and trying to encourage the ones who do graduate (often with less-than-stellar educations) to occupy a higher percentage of well-paying jobs is not feasible, and itself creates negative side effects (eg feelings of resentment by other races towards perceived or actual preferential treatment). I also strongly feel that any change that involves codifying race into law is bad change and can only backfire in the long-term. I don't dispute race is still important in the US, but that should be said observationally rather than aspirationally. I also think that many of the issues SJWs focus on are minor and not really relevant to the overall causes of issues. I also think the "privilege intersection" stuff is a gross simplification that applies to averages but has too much variance to assume much -- you'd need about 2000 dimensions in your graph to actually determine who has the most privilege, and the left mostly focuses on about 5

>>17634621
why should somebody with privilege agree to sacrificing their privilege to someone who's "underprivlege." Ultimately what your asking for is war, even if you try to dress up and play nice.

>>17634621
What do you think attracts people to beliefs like "white privilege" and "male privilege"?

"I'm privileged. And that's a good thing."
Simple as

>>17634671
that's not really relevant to the discussion itself, except as ad hominem

"Let's not dehumanize each other."

>>17634750
It is relevant, people are attracted en masse to these beliefs for a reason

>>17633762
I can smell the fedora from here.

>>17634801
90% of the population will never have an original thought. There'll always be someone swinging their opinion. That's never going to change. Discuss the issue, which is interesting, and not the irrationality of crowds, which is uninteresting

>>17634874
Yeah I agree with you actually

>>17633589
do you have any good modpacks that this fits into?

>>17634621
>I agree that it is far harder for a black person to succeed than it is for a white person. Similarly, for a man than a woman.

Your mistake is assuming the only factors in play are the elusive and phantasmic social constructs in society.
While I don't deny that people are greatly influenced by the perceived expectations of others, I think it's foolish and dangerous to overestimate their role in the outcome of people's lives. Genetic pressures arguably play a much bigger role. The reason blacks tend to dominate the sports field is not because everyone is racist except sports managers, but because among other things they have higher testosterone levels, denser bones, and are taller than whites on average. The reason east Asians excel at math isn't because everyone is racist against Asians except for math teachers, it's because like blacks they have a genetic composition that allows them to excel oh this area, and although the mind isn't understood as well as the body it can't be denied that genes play a role in determining your mental abilities.
And on the subject of women, obviously testosterone and aggression levels are generally much lower, which affects competitiveness in ANY area, and studies have shown women are 5 IQ points lower on average and have brains 11% smaller. I'm not a misogynist, but I recognize that humans are sexually dimorphic and the differences between sexes are not merely imaginary nor the result of social pressures.
Of course these things all factor in the outcome of a person's life and their competitiveness in the workplace, and the field of work in which they excel. I don't believe social pressures play as much of a role as genetic factors, though I'm open to any evidence to the contrary.

>>17634621
>I agree that it is far harder for a black person to succeed than it is for a white person. Similarly, for a man than a woman.

Your mistake is assuming the only factors in play are the phantasmic Social Constructs that apparently control every aspect of society.
While I don't deny that people are greatly influenced by the perceived expectations of others, I think it's foolish and dangerous to overestimate their role in the outcome of people's lives. Genetic pressures arguably play a much bigger role. The reason blacks tend to dominate the sports field is not because everyone is racist except sports managers, but because among other things they have higher testosterone levels, denser bones, and are taller than whites on average. The reason east Asians excel at math isn't because everyone is racist against Asians except for math teachers, it's because like blacks they have a genetic composition that allows them to excel in this area, and although the mind isn't understood as well as the body, it can't be denied that genes play a role in determining your mental abilities.
And on the subject of women, obviously testosterone and aggression levels are generally much lower, which affects competitiveness in ANY area, and studies have shown women are 5 IQ points lower on average and have brains 11% smaller. I'm not a misogynist, but I recognize that humans are sexually dimorphic and the differences between sexes are not merely imaginary nor the result of social pressures.
Of course these things all factor in the outcome of a person's life and their competitiveness in the workplace, and the field of work in which they excel. I don't believe social pressures play as much of a role as genetic factors, though I'm open to evidence to the contrary.

>>17634387
Okay this thread has to be a joke. How can you even begin to argue when you generalize other other side? Please read more about this subject read everything you can. You sound like a fool.

>>17634939
I'd recommend it with something with gritty modern-day realism and a detailed economics simulator

>>17633526
you should never go in trying to prove or disprove something, seek the truth and then make your arguments from there

>>17635063
MY HOUSE IS TOO DIRTY, LET ME LIVE IN YOURS
WAHHH GIVE ME FREE MONEY
WAHHH WHY ARE YOU IN CHARGE
WAHHH LEAVE, THIS IS MY HOUSE NOW

>>17633622
work ethic has nothing to do with race and everything to with upbringing and culture

You can't reason with those people, you have to dominate them. Study rhetoric and persuasion because that's what moves them.

>>17633977
Slavery is just a mode of production. It has gone out of style because it became obsolete. Ideology is reactive, we did not free slaves because we produced an ideology that deemed slavery to be evil or whatever. We freed slaves because the material conditions of the time made this particular mode of production obsolete, THEN we justified this change through ideology. Like everything else in history. Emiratis and rich petrol arabs still have slaves, personal ones. Why aren't they using slave labour? Clearly they have no qualms using slaves. They don't because it cannot work anymore.

>>17635255
So whites are privileged to not raise their children in abject poverty and savagery and somehow every other race is incapable?

>>17635024
this is obviously bait

>>17634649
Because they care about others and want them to have the same opportunities they do.
If you can't understand that, then fine. Thankfully you're an ever-shrinking minority.

>>17633526
Stop.
Internet debating is a waste of fucking time

>>17634058
Fuck off Muhammad

>wasting your time on leftards

>>17634387
>If I was to guess because they like being a victim
Except there's plenty of white and male people who are progressive. Try again. To understand these beliefs we're talking about, examine data used to support them and then refute it. If you can't, change your beliefs.

>>17635872
>basing your beliefs off data

I love how threads like this expose all the bunkertards lurking

>>17635225
Nations aren't houses and anyway none of this shit is really happening. You people just can't stand to see an arab on the train or whatever

>>17635063
The entire concept of white privilege is based off generalizing. Suck my fucking knob

>>17635994
Imagine a white guy and a black guy who are otherwise exactly the same, who go to a job interview. Who gets the job?

>>17635816
Except for every brown person affirmative action hire there's a white male in need who loses the opportunity. So really it has nothing to do with "caring" about others.

>>17636013
>otherwise exactly the same

>>17636013
The black guy.

>>17636013
The black guy because HR and racial quotas.

Next.

>>17635967
Arabs have life figured out. Keep your women covered, your life simple, and if anyone screws with your way of life just fucking kill them.

>>17635816
Kill yourself you fucking imbecile

>>17635967
> nations aren't houses
Duurrrr what's a metaphor?

>>17634809
>>17633762
>>17633882
Nietzsche is literally the best source we have into understanding modern-day progressives. They’re the epitome of slave morality, they resent their masters of straight white men because of their fake ressentiment but they still find it virtuous to belong to pathetic, weak and miserable identity categories. He basically described all these people 150 years ago, it’s just gotten out of control now as he said it eventually would

>>17635967
>anyway none of this shit is really happening
Oh but it is.

>You people just can't stand to see an arab on the train or whatever
I don't see why I should be forced to listen to Arabic on my way to work when the closest arab speaking country is on the other side of the planet

>>17635967
>You people just can't stand to see an arab on the train or whatever
and why should they? White people are more beautiful to look at and there's a pretty high chance any arabs in Europe hates your guts and then some.

>>17635566
Not an argument

>>17636026
>>17636040
Empirically incorrect. Look in
to the resume studies.

>>17636050
>>17636050
Why would I? I'm winning. Society has historically and is continuing to trend towards progressivism. The largest bastion of conservative thought is ancient boomers, who are dying. Younger generations are ever more progressive.
You should probably kill yourself actually, for your own good. Human society will not be to your liking.

>>17635566
Not bait. You'll have to look up the sources thyself because I'm not getting paid to educate you, but everything I said is true.

>>17636086
Imagine a white guy and a black guy who are otherwise exactly the same, who apply to a university. Who gets the spot?

>>17636097
The audacity to think that somehow you will not be slaving away in the gulag, that is if you don't get shot in the corner of your block before that of course.

>>17636086
who's more likely to get hired, a White male or White female?

>>17633526
If you can't even admit white privilege exists you are out of your mind

>>17636097
>whig history
yikes bro read Spengler.

>>17636128
Enlighten us please. Do whites abide by different laws?

>>17636013
The Jewish guy who didn’t go to the interview but is the nephew of an executive

>>17636086
The study you refer to is flawed because they chose "black names" associated with the ghetto, and "white names" associated with the middle class.

If you reverse the social classes, and do "Shandra and Barack" vs "Annie-Sue and Cletus", you'd probably have the opposite result.

>>17636128
Being 20 points higher in IQ than spics and niggers is a kind of privilege, I guess

>>17636060
>Oh but it is
Yeah I'm sure Turks and Syrians are demanding that Germans leave Germany

>>17635816
>dude I know your son needs that position but give it to some random brown person.
cuckoldry. It's not a virtue, it's a vice.

>>17636152
>Shandra
>Barack
These sound niggy as fuck man what are you talking about? They still might win out over Cletus though.

>>17636183
Nepotism is shit. This is supposed to be a meritocratic society

>>17636176
Yes, that's exactly what is happening you retarded imbecile.

>>17636211
No it isn't you delusional bitch

>>17636097
> society tends toward progressive
This is a disgustingly reductionist statement. The rest of your post is just mindless antagonism. Maybe you're the one who should kill themselves.

>>17636198
>merit
weird appeal. Define "merit." The big tension between White conservative men and non-white male progressives is that, according to progressives, what White Americans conventionally defined as "merit" is not universal. Therefore groups such as blacks and women who "live their own truth" have their own values, own way of doing things etc should not be forced to abide by them.

>>17636234
Yes it is. It is very clear you know nothing of what is going on in European countries open borders and a high influx of third worlders.

Absolute imbecile.

The book of statistics which show just how neglected men are and the negative consequences following such neglect can have on everyone else.

>>17636238
Kill yourself.

>>17636249
Two people have the same essay assignment. One works harder, yet only gets a "B." The other is natural gifted at writing so he doesn't apply his whole capability yet still get's an "A."

Who has more "merit" in this case? imo merit is too ambiguous to be a standard. 9/10 people would rather their own kind get something regardless of who has more "merit" anyway. Merit is a boomer cope.

>>17633655
<ignatiev
wew

>>17636286
Insane example. Who fucking cares about naturally gifted or not. The grading is based on criteria, doesn't matter how long it takes you to reach them.

None? Do you have any arguments against white privilege or male privilege?

>>17636238
>White Americans conventionally defined as "merit" is not universal
That's exactly wrong. We've done everything possible in this country to ensure that hiring is based on merit. Aside from the system itself rewarding merit based hiring, there is actual legislation to ensure a person's identity isn't considered in the hiring process. But genetic differences result in different skill sets for the average person in each ethnicity, and thus different outcomes. Instead of accepting reality, people like you wish to deny human nature and force insane policies that damage society in ways unprecedented and unforeseeable -- all because you can't accept that genetics exist and ethnicities are different.

>>17636298
Some people would say hard work is more valuable than the result. Others, like yourself, say the result is worth more than the amount of work put in. There's no solution to the quality of merit, even if people try to quantify it with grades or whatever.

And this doesn't even go into the whole host of reasons why someone may or may not get a better grade. I could list random ones. Someone is going through a hard time in their life whilst the other isn't.

>>17636286
Bait

>>17636238
We don't live in a 'meritocracy'. This makes them double dumb. The rewards for great acts are just their results, it seems quite the opposite is encouraged often enough.
Anyways, I think the relay of their point can still be made in terms of values. I guess those would be ethical values or even beliefs.
I am not too concerned with which dichotomy the progressive, leftist racists choose to summon the boogeyman. I don't think they care either. Worst case? The few of their offspring that weren't aborted will face a worse holocaust. Perfectly fair price for the soulless redgang.

>>17634243
>>17634283
Why are Westerners like this?

>>17636312
>all because you can't accept that genetics exist and ethnicities are different.
You can't be more off. I accept race to point where i'd rather my less qualified racial kin get's a position over some indian or chinese export who's marginally more "merited. " I'm really the racist itt.

>>17636319
I agree, you can't control every little aspect of it. But overall merit is the best way to go about it, which is why you see the market going by merit.

>>17636013
The black guy? The US Federal government is giving extra contracts to small business with minority status currently.
t. gov Contractor

>>17635994
This is great.

>>17635400
>every other race is incapable
asians, ,europeans, and latinamericans that go to first worlds can and often thrive, there is nothing stopping you from thriving
>whites are privileged to not raise their children in abject poverty
? not all whites are rich, some are dirt poor,

so what some got a head start, stop thinking with your feelings

>>17635820
no its not you buffoon, we discuss and it snowballs into truth and solutions especially to those who are ignorant

>>17636013
Blacks get praised for hiring other blacks. Same for others. But whites hiring other whites is racist.

>>17636097
They might be "progressive" but they aren't intelligent. Education standards have been in sharp decline for over 70 years. The generations before that all got a classical education based on true trivium methodology, and learned how to think correctly and critically. They weren't perfect and were a work in progress certainly, but to say the new retard generations are better than them mentally is an ignirant statement. Its not about left vs right. That type of binary thinking is exactly why people are the way they are and its because they were not properly educated. The shit high school kids in the 50's were learning shits on todays liberal arts college educations. No the new generations are totally fucked. Only thing left now are the gulags.

>>17636238
That has to be one of the stupidest fucking charts I've seen and I'm not white. Kill yourself.

>>17636097
>>17636238
You will never be a woman.

>>17636495
y'know I didn't make it, it was put up in the Smithsonian and it's origins lay in an influential critical race theorist from the 90s.

>>17636097
No one is winning except the Moloch worshippers

>>17636507
That doesn't make it any less stupid.

>>17636111
I'm not a commie, nor do I think society is trending towards communism. Try again.
>>17636237
It's reductive but ultimately correct. In the global north things are only getting better for the disprivileged. Conservatives oppose every civil rights struggle but they tend to fail (slavery, black/female suffrage, Jim Crow). This is an inevitable consequence of the generational difference I mentioned; the staunchest conservatives are being replaced by younger generations (as well as immigrants, which the right will never stop the flow of).
>>17636462
Stats on educational standards declining? I wouldn't be surprised, but I already support improving education because America is mogged by many other countries in that regard.
>>17636505
Thank you for the masculinity boost.

>>17636097
People can seethe all they want but this is correct. Progressivism is the future. Neoliberalism is inevitably going to move progressive and commodify all social aspects of life, you can’t stop it, the only thing standing in the way are boomers. Once they die, American conservatism dies. Trump was their last dance and now the globohomo technocracy is really settled in

>>17636975
>that boy
i love gen z yea yea yea yea.....

>>17636975
This but unironically

>>17636103
Having seen studies on it, but probably the white man. The same principle from the resume studies applies, and while many colleges have affirmative action programs, the ones who statistically benefit most from them are white women (I know reactionaries probably don't tell you that last part).
>>17636113
Haven't seen studies in it, could go either way but probably the woman. Just so you guys know, the existence of white and male privilege doesn't discount the possibility of other privileges. Women are privileged in many ways.
>>17636152
There is no "black name" that is not associated with ghetto shit, including your examples. That's the point.
Annie-Sue and Cletus might have different results. Do you have any evidence for that? It seems like reactionaries never do.

>>17636183
Random brown person needs it just as much retard.

>>17637001
>There is no "black name" that is not associated with ghetto shit,
that's because they made it up in the hood. I mean if they had actual african african names like Abayomrunkoje would they get the job? Nobody studies THAT, too inconvenient to the narrative.

>>17637011
ok but why the fuck would I give it up to him?

>>17633526
>What books will help me counter the "white privilege" and "male privilege" arguments?
just learn what privilege actually means in the context of sociology and you'll realize that all the corporations, pundits, hustlers, etc. are using it incorrectly

>>17637017
The people with actual African names are actual Africans, not Americans. And if you think some bullshit word soup name would do better than white American names, you're retarded.
>>17637028
You wouldn't, you would practice nepotism. But I don't care about changing individuals' behavior, I care about changing systemic issues. There is nothing I can do to convince you to not be nepotistic or racist, but there are things I can do to disempower people like you.

>>17633526
If they're just people you'll encounter once and never again, don't bother debating in good faith since it takes more than one sitting to change someone's mind.
Instead just tell them that white privilege is real but deserved, because whites are the best so they deserve preferencial treatment.

My diary desu

>>17637081
That's not what privilege means. Privilege is by definition unearned.

>>17637076
>I can do to disempower people like you.
and we understand the terms of the game. It's not about merit. It's about in-group vs out-group power. That's all it is. Any gain for you is a loss for me and vis versa.

>>17633859
Faggot

>>17635872
>>If I was to guess because they like being a victim
>Except there's plenty of white and male people who are progressive.
>How can white males be progressive because they see themselves as victims, they're white males!
This is hilarious!
This fuckwit is so up his own ass on the intersectional privilege narrative, that he LITERALLY cannot parse the concept of white men identifying as victims.

>>17637076
>You wouldn't, you would practice nepotism
Nepotism is a meaningless buzzword. It's one of those things that empty headed people pour back in forth between each other's skulls as they nod their heads in agreement over how bad the bad word is. Never actually putting much thought into and just agreeing with what they heard the last empty headed person said.

What is nepotism?
Why is it bad?
The impression I get from your position is that you believe feeding my own children first instead of yours is bad, because just because.

Yes, I am a white woman, and yes, I have white privilege — too many privileges to count and many of which I do not consciously know. My race-based privileges, whether I recognize them or not, allow for me to go about my days unencumbered by any threat of racial violence. But all of the confessing in the world does not change this fact, which is why I’m calling on white people to stop confessing and start acting. If confessing to white privilege were an effective path toward racial justice, it would have worked by now.

>>17636128
This, I don't understand why 4chan gets so defensive about this topic. It's true that if you go to different countries - many of which are also not majority white - you will get preferential treatment. You shouldn't have to hate yourself for being white, but it seems delusional to pretend that you won't benefit from having a lighter complexion.

>>17637499
>It's true that if you go to different countries - many of which are also not majority white - you will get preferential treatment.
Being a preferred targeted for kidnapping is not what most people mean when they think of the phrase "preferential treatment".

>>17637529
In many Asian countries white people are given preferential treatment. The increased risk of being kidnapped is incurred by anyone who travels abroad and is not a member of said country's majority group, not just white people, but it would seem that when white people travel they are more less likely to be discriminated against. Even if this was a specific risk to white people, kidnappings are already an unlikely occurrence. This would not debunk the idea that white people are given better treatment.

>>17637093
>Privilege isn't earned
Are you retard?

>>17634074
This is how I know you haven't been around (thank god) or seen an actual 12 yr old before. You're a fucking retard.
t. dating 18 yr old at 22

>>17637106
>and we understand the terms of the game. It's not about merit. It's about in-group vs out-group power. That's all it is. Any gain for you is a loss for me and vis versa.
This.

>>17634074
The people your basedjak is a strawman of despise pedophilia actually, to an absurd amount

>>17636975
Picture related is the result of this idealogy creating new problems and attempting to jackhammer a 'solution' whilst ignoring already existing solutions.
As we've seen in the increase in youth and young adult depression. This is the outcome of a society that's trying to ignore the core source of these such as poor parenting, lack of social understanding, and neglect and instead taking on what is a simply new outlet that is not properly tackling these problems, but making them worse by both fueling narcissism and a new form of peer pressure against the very people its supposedly championing for.

>>17637943
True but you're ignoring the biggest problem which is the lack of meaningful employment opportunities.

>>17633595
I mean do you expect people to read soviet propaganda to understand communism? Or Goebbels articles to understand Nazism? It's a form of self torture. It'd be better to read a second hand critique of it rather than the original spiel that is just going to be unjustified assertions over and over.

>>17637963
This, the middle class is being suffocated by student debt that is a result of 0 employment opportunities for most majors. Even technical majors can have difficult times finding employment. The gap between the middle class and the rich is bigger than it has ever been; It's no wonder that the youth feels disenfranchised and sad.

>>17636128
Well you will have to first prove it instead of these Kafkaesque argument loops

>>17633762
You're a vile human. I hope you're an anti natalist too. Don't reproduce.

>>17633762
And you are one of the many fuels that flame these people. The people that have created a modern racism against a majority and unneeded baggage we should have moved on from.

>privilege, entitlement and birthright are everything in a person
So he says as the kings of old degenerated the health of their bloodline in order to cling onto this so called birthright that these families have long since no longer held. I do suppose you still hold this ideal when faced with info of Jewish and Asian people doing the best in the economic world?

>>17633526
The Bible

>>17634649
Old thread but I'll reply to this one because whatever.
Because what if due to political, cultural, economical changes the priviledged ones stop being them and it changes to the others?
For example, slavery.
Would I agree to slavery if I wasn't a slave? of course, it's cheap af labor with no unions, certs, norms, etc.
Would I agree to slavery if it meant that at any given point, could I be turned into one? of course not.

It's like the state wanting to watch every move you make, but as soon as you ask for transparency they don't like it anymore.

Or for example, do I care about minorities being opressed in another state for minor shit? I personally do not empathize enough to care if that were a super confined issue that will never touch me or my family.
But that's not the case, at any given moment I could also be a victim of whatever a minority has suffered, and I wouldn't like that, to put it mildly.

A recent example is Brexit. Do they like shit cultures in their country (implying they aren't one) of course not, do they like going somewhere else? of course, but now they are seeing eye level what it meant to take away that priviledge by denying it to someone else.

Sometimes the sacrifice is worth it like free travel imo (but I don't travel often), but sometimes it's not, like cop mob brutality.

>>17634621
I don't understand how anyone can believe that is harder to succeed as a woman than as a man, structurally. Women's access to resources, assistance and opportunities in all areas of life far exceeds what is available to men.

>>17637990
But that’s the point. The youth are decadent and isolated but the dominant ideology tells them to embrace that decadence — it’s okay to be who are you are, pick your own identity, replace material luxury with social luxury, etc

>>17638269
But that dominant ideology is a result of the youth being in crisis.

>>17638308
No. It’s manufactured at the top.

White privilege is bullshit as only a select number of white countries were able to really develop themselves into colonial empires or hegemons like the US and USSR. The rise of China is also a good counter, not only are they able to keep a country running with a billion citizens, they're pulling hundreds of millions out of poverty. Believing whites somehow have privilege is trying to show the seeds of racial division in a world where people think along increasingly simple lines.

Male privilege is pretty much undeniable, men should always be leading women around.

The racialization of poverty, inequality, and privilege in this country its just another way for elected officials to avoid taking responsibility for the tens of millions of Americans below the poverty line. If they only focus on the tiny fraction of the population that is black and brown, the payout is much less painful and they can get away with a shitty welfare program.

>>17638422
China is still very much a third world country though, GDP per capita is 1/6th of the US and their one child policy is about to shatter any hope they had of becoming a world superpower.

>>17636332
What’s wrong with that question. If 10 years old is ok where is the line?

>>17633526
Instead of countering arguments, you should try hurting people.

>>17637106
>Any gain for you is a loss for me and vis versa
Not quite. It's true that a "gain" for you is a loss for me, but a gain for me is also a gain for you. The things I support empirically improve the quality of life of the entire population. The things you support empirically decrease the quality of life for all but a minority.
That's the difference between you and I. Despite the fact that I despise you, I will still help you.

>>17637379
>What is nepotism?
Favoritism based on familial relationship.
>Why is it bad?
Because it fails to give positions to the people most qualified/deserving. If you think affirmative action is bad you should understand why nepotism is. Serious cognitive dissonance if you don't.
>you believe feeding my own children first instead of yours is bad
No, I do not. I believe hiring your own children, because they're your children, rather than the best person for the position is wrong. That's all that was said.
Now, can you explain why you don't think employment positions should go to the best people for the job?
>>17637733
No, but you might be. In sociology (which is what we're talking about right now) privilege is literally by definition unearned. It is conferred solely based on membership of a group.
See: https://sociologydictionary.org/privilege/

>>17633526
Check the suicide, bankruptcy, unemployment and homelessness statistics by gender. Don't know much about race though.

>>17633526

>>17633526
If you learn a second language, shifting definitions in language cannot effect your thoughts. The newspeak they churn out cannot stop a bilingual thinker.

>>17639466
I'll break it down. Europe won the game of risk so fucking hard that it and all the descendants of europe now feel bad and as if they were picking on retards and are now throwing the game out of ignoble pity disguised as compassion.

>>17639399
We aren't falling for the window-dressing anymore Chaim.

>>17633624
According to the APA, socially liberal people have less sympathy, more blame, and less attribution to external sources for poor whites after being told about white privilege.

>>17633867
Who is uncle Ted?

>>17634939
I think it comes preloaded on tekkit

>>17633975
Fentanyl flyod died from an overdose. If you haven’t watched the full interaction b/w him and the police you are a willfully ignorant slave. Don’t at me either pencil necks

>>17635566
Checked, but not an argument bitch

>>17638481
GDP used to be what matters, you've now shifted to GDP per capita despite PPP being more representative. How far will the damage control go ? How will you react when they develop nuclear fusion I wonder.

>>17641181

>>17638481
>per capita

Oh boy

>>17639455
You're conflating the sociological definition made by one dumb nigger for a specific purpose, with the colloquial and more common sense of the word.
but if you want to use the definition where it's unearned, I'd just say it had to be given for a reason, and that reason is my ancestors never acted like niggers.

>>17634025
12 year old girls are past their puberty and ready to be bred. That's a natural law, your made up laws pushed by old hags because they are jealous of young girls in their prime are irrelevant

>>17642658
No, I was using the sociological definition exclusively, from the beginning, because this is that "specific purpose." Maybe I didn't make that clear at first, but it's clear now.
>I'd just say it had to be given for a reason, and that reason is my ancestors never acted like niggers
There is absolutely no reason to believe that your ancestors never did bad shit (they probably perpetuated slavery in some way, but maybe you're insane enough to support that). Either way it doesn't matter, because people should not be punished or rewarded for their ancestors' actions. They should be punished and rewarded for THEIR actions. If you can't understand the reasons why people shouldn't suffer for shit they have no control over, there is no hope for you.

>>17644317
Nah man. I don't have the time to get to know every nigger on a deep personal level before he jumps me.
I get that it's unfair, but it's practical.

>>17634250
Notice how you were unable to come up with any argument, at all. You didn't even try lol.

>>17639399
>giving up power is actually a gain for you
imagine thinking i'm dumb enough to believe this.

>>17635255
Culture arrises from biology, cope some more

>>17633729
THIS

>>17641181
Ted Nugent

>>17633555
>discourse is for fucking faggots

Thank you, finally someone gets it

>>17633526
They aren't arguments, they're demands. Non-whites want the West for themselves, and Western women are out of control.

>>17633526
stop associating with retarded political people.

>>17633526
white privilege is real but it only exists because niggers are dangerous and immoral

>>17633553
That's not a book of arguments though, it's one of many similar tirades with the premise that author is absolutely right about everything and you are not allowed to disagree. If you talk back, it's because you're mad that the author is challenging your internalized racial/male supremacy. If you say "that's bullshit, you can't just call me racist and dismiss me without addressing my points", you are attacking and victimizing the PoC because your white fragility can't handle the fact that they're challenging your white privilege. And if you do entertain the possibility that they might have a point, you're still an irredeemable racist but at least you get a pat on the head for trying and a dunce cap with "white ally" scribbled on it.

Don't feed the trolls.

>>17633526

“The Problem With Snitches: How The Left Started Snitching and What Snitches Should Get”

They're true, except it's the natural order and not a bunch of arbitrary social constructs like leftoids would have you belive.

why are there so many chapotrannies on here? is it all the pseud zoomers?

>>17633526
Don't get into that bullshit. There are serious issues but this literal black and white thing is a psyop by both sides. One claims the right are nothing but racist neo-nazi, inbred, rednecks and thus subhuman and the other claims the left is nothing but queer, castrated, amoral, lazy, communists. Both sides are controlled by the rich elite who think each and everyone of us are stupid monkeys to be divided and conquered. Stop paying attention to the stupid social issue stuff and look at the economic issues. Both inner city blacks and rural whites have the same enemies and they're letting you bleed yourselves while they rob you.

>>17633526
Don't bother, simply adopt the (correct) standpoint that privilege and inequality aren't moral evils

>>17645778
Pretty true. So how do we strike back?

>>17645778
No

>>17645778
There are no enemies. The world is bureaucratically complex world of increasing technological management. It's boring and doesn't inspire any sentimental response like saying it's controlled by demonic elites. There is nothing to do. You're just a loser

>>17641764
No idea what PPP is, only know that china will soon be overrun by old people and it's not going to matter

>>17645955
Shut up fag

>>17645020
I think I agree with you but will you elaborate please? I'm interested.

>>17644954
You are well within your rights to blast anyone who jumps you, nigger or not. That has nothing to do with what I said. In fact, I literally said people should be "punished and rewarded for their actions." I'm talking about broad trends of behavior that can only really be solved by government action.
>>17640671
Who's "we"? The American population as a whole is only becoming more progressive, as I've mentioned, and that's all I care about.
>>17645008
Empowering unions, raising minimum wage, improving social services, etc. is the exact opposite of "giving up power." It directly empowers you. Assuming you're not some rich fuck.

>>17633526
Check out James Lindsay

>>17634671
Well they're objectively true, white people and men are both categories of people that have historically always had more power than people who aren't in either of those categories. Sure that might be starting to change now but that's in the last couple of years, maybe 2 decades if you really really stretch and the institutions that lead to white men having privileges have been around for centuries and arguably, are still maintained, as the richest and most powerful people in the world are white men who have a huge incentive to keep that privilege. And I don't blame them for that, I'm a white male and while it's obvious that I have privilege (using this as an academic term and not an insult, we're mostly adults here on 4chan) I benefit from and like the privileges I get. People are attracted to those ideas because they're true and demonstrable, even if D'Wanda called you a cracker the other day and Stacey said you were a chauvinist pig.

>>17633526
White privilege and male privilege is real
It's the reasons for and the solutions against it that liberals offer that are stupid

>>17633762
>>17636058
>t. Hasn't read the genealogy past the first part
Or, more likely, only watched some 7 minute YouTube video on Nietzsche

>>17633526
This book review on "Reinventing Racism: Why “White Fragility” Is the Wrong Way to Think about Racial Inequality" provides a lot of good starting points.

https://quillette.com/2020/11/30/reinventing-racism-a-review/

>>17633624
But poverty is a result of structured inequality, just not structured on race

>>17638422
This is a good point.
>go to Eastern European shithole like Moldova
>it's 99.9% white
>it's a shithole
>'wtf where's the white privilege'
>wonder what a coincidence it is that the same ideological block and its offshoots that ruined these places, Communism, is behind the movements for white or male privilege
At the end of the day you have to be extremely unworldly and ignorant to fall for these kinds of talking points. The best argument against them is simple life experience. What did Mark Twain say, prejudice cannot survive travel? Well ironically neither can anti-prejudice.

>>17634074
So true.
#theResist
I avoid everyone with dyed hair like the plague.

>>17634250
Oh dear, he used a wojak meme guys. Guess I can't say that anymore.

>>17647360
Poverty is the default condition of the human race, 7 million years ago man was born into poverty. What structured inequality made this happen exactly?

imagine caring holy shit. i think all of you are spending a bit too much time online/with other people that dont matter. why do you want to not matter?

>>17633729
I don't know if you've guys have read greaber but he has a book on bureaucracy. In it he talks about how bureaucracies tend to justify there own existence through the employment and control over information. I'm convinced that political correctness and such intiatives are a by product of rampant bureaucratic middle managers and leaders hoping to justify their own existence.

>>17634250
Retard, even most respected academics acknowledge it as an issue.

>>17633526
None because those things are real.

>>17634621
I agree with you for the most part. I also think police are corrupt as fuck and their unions need to go. Like I don't think it's a race issue as much as it incompetence. Though I do agree there is an element of race involved.

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/309800700