/lit/ - Literature

>>17632088
>mythology
you misspelt actual facts.

>>17632093
Sorry, I can't suspend my disbelief to that extent

>>17632093
Read St. Augustine, you anti-christian heretic

>>17632154
I did and he doesn't say not to believe in anything you apostate, go lick Diocletian's feet.

>>17632167
>>17632154
stop namedropping shit nobodys heard of

>>17632096
no you just have to suspend your belief in the modern narrative which is in absolute rational and empirical sense a lot less believable.

>>17632170
everybody heard of St Augustine and of emperor Diocletian two of the most influential people in the history of the world, you are an illiterate retard.

It did, the christians incorporated as much of it as they could and then closed the Academy.

>>17632088
You really can’t see anything in Genesis, Exodus, Job, Ecclesiastes, some Psalms and Proverbs?

>>17632167
Read his commentaries on genesis and his letters. Stop larping as a tradcath christian online and go study your own religion. All you are doing is preventing people from converting by telling them to believe in semitic desert demons (just like Augustine's conversion was delayed).

>>17632170
?

>>17632182
>everybody has heard of them
clearly not man. you need to explain who these people even are

>>17632215
This is either:
1) A bait
2) You are illiterate mutt
1) You are above 18.
2) You are below 18

In case of 2.2 your existence may yet be saved if you start reading (by which I mean not the il/lit/erate 30 minutes a day but a proper study of the greats).

>>17632260
i have no idea why you are being so fucking mean man. i come with an open mind and an open heart im just asking about something you mentioned and you shit all over me for not already knowing. fuck me man. you have no right to call the masses 'retards' if you just act like this whenever someone wants to actually know what you're trying to say. maybe you just think its so basic because your school taught you that stuff. cool. mine didn't. i just wanted to hear you expand on these figures

>>17632200
The stories are hard to believe in

>>17632088
>since it's Christianity without the nonsensical elements
Christianity is Neoplatonism without the nonsensical elements, the tiers of demons and intermediary gods are condensed into saints and Christ, the theurgy rituals are condensed into Mass. Christianity was a streamlining of Neoplatonism.

>>17632214
>Stop larping as a tradcath christian online and go study your own religion
allready did and not larping, you're the only One acting like actually believing in stuff Is larping.
Liberalismo Is the One true lato of today anyway of i have to put a Mask to prevent invisible viruses from infecting me then Jona was eaten by a fucking whale.
DEEEEEAL. WIIITH. IIIIIIIIIIIT

>>17632269
the Tiger poster was not even me, you are an obvious larper.

>>17632298
tiger poster?

>>17632302
other poster

>>17632269
You said that one of the most influential men in history (and one that has helped many to find inner piece) was "shit no one has heard of". Don't pretend like you are the victim here.

>>17632292
>DEEEEEAL. WIIITH. IIIIIIIIIIIT
Thanks for playing

>>17632292

>>17632312
you better thank me, I won.
>>17632315
no you.

>>17632312
That wasn't me though I just wanted to know who these people even were. Why are you mean?

>>17632292
I seriously don't understand why mutts get so triggered by masks. You guys seriously are a nation of utter subhumans and the rest of the world would be immediately better off if your entire glorified shopping mall of a country got nuked into oblivion.

>>17632088
The doctrines of Plato and his successor Plotinus were meant for the few subtle students who could understand them. Christianity replaced this voluntary understanding with simple belief for all on pain of hell. Both are mistaken. Neither assent nor intellection suffices. Only in experience will you find what you seek. Purify your heart and study the art of Alchemy. It was under this guise of chemistry that the Tradition was passed down in the West. I realized this after a decade of tortured Thomism. Thomas Aquinas himself, who strove and suffered far more than I have, realized it shortly before his death. Read Aurora Consurgens. Do not settle for less than what you find there.

>>17632332
come on man im not him. im just an innocent guy. you really want me killed? america has no unifying philosophy of any sort. it makes me sad that you want me nuked off the face of the earth when all i want is for you to be happy

>>17632334
>Only in experience will you find what you seek. Purify your heart and study the art of Alchemy
It's dead, might as well go for eastern religion then.

>>17632332
Ameritards are based for it, we need to somehow weed out bad genes from the pool anyways, and Corona seems pretty fit for that.

>>17632334
>Christianity replaced this voluntary understanding with simple belief for all on pain of hell.
and this is how I know you are a retard.
hey genius the medieval alchemists were all Christian.

>>17632374
>hey genius the medieval alchemists were all Christian.
Because they couldn't be anything else. Christianity was a disguise for their esoteric thoughts, otherwise they got burnt at the stake. Christianity was, fundamentally, a dogmatic religion which relied upon faith, either in the Church or the words in the Bible.

>>17632398
>Because they couldn't be anything else.
yes they could.

>>17632421
If you wish to know what happened to men who ventured beyond Christianity and into the Tradition, study the fate of the Templars. Concealment was crucial for survival.

>>17632432
nothing to do with that your """secret history""" is litteral masonic fabrication so they could live a LARP in which they descend from temple builders from Atlantis or some nonsense.
Templars weren't guilty of anything they were accused for, Philip the Fair was just busy inventing the nation state and destroying Europe and needed money.
Perhaps read the secrets of the cathedrals for some actual good data.

>>17632088
neo-platonic thought was one of the main currents of the time together with early christianity. as such christianity actually adapted a lot of neo-platonic elements. as others have pointed out neo-platonism is a very hard to get technical philosophy and its big thinkers had no intention of spreading it to the wider public.
besides that, i think as Hegel correctly pointed out christianity has quite a radical conception of a finite, loving, suffering, human god, that i think appealed to people in a way that a distant neo-platonic 'one' didnt. interestingly this conception of a dying human god actually got somewhat retconned in scholastic philosophy by integrating aristotelic/(neo-)platonic conceptions of an infinite, transcendent, and indifferent god.

>>17632448
Masonry is a counterfeit. Atlantis was real. Nothing is the way they say it is. Enlarge your mind. Stop fighting. Learn to love instead of lashing out. The future is bright, Anon.

>>17632448
the accusations of heresy and spitting on the cross was all just a fabrication by the Pope then I guess

>>17632421
>yes they could.
[citation needed]

>>17632432
There is plenty to suggest the accusations against the Templars were a fabrication.

>>17632466
by Philip the fair that had the pope hostage. the whole point.
>>17632471
litteraly any book of medieval law.

>>17632482
>litteraly any book of medieval law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics
> The list does not attempt to encompass the list of those executed by burning for other reasons (such as victims of witch hunts or other persecutions).

>by Philip the fair that had the pope hostage. the whole point.
No he didn't.

>>17632482
>Canon 3 of the Ecumenical Fourth Council of the Lateran, 1215 required secular authorities to "exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics" pointed out by the Catholic Church,[2] resulting in the inquisitor executing certain people accused of heresy.

>>17632273
Some of those are not stories at all and most of them are more than a “story”. You are baiting.

>>17632088
>Neoplatonism is Christianity
No. Neoplatonism tells you that you should escape this world, while christianity tells you that not only you should not escape it, but also you will be reborn in it with your flesh.
Also neoplatonism doesn't blindly tell you to believe stuff, but prescribes exercises to reach union with the One. As all knowledge with personal experience at its core, it is not popular

>>17632492
What is your point with that list? They were murdered precisely because they were christians, lol

>>17632603
>prescribes exercises
Haven't they all been lost to time?

>>17632603
>Also neoplatonism doesn't blindly tell you to believe stuff
neither does christianity

>>17632499
>heretics
heretics are dangerous, obviously they must suffer.
Also cherry picking won't help your untenable position.

>>17632603
No, Platonism does not tell you to escape the world. Spiritual body is not fleshly body. Faith is not belief.
You are really misinformed.

>>17632492
>witch hunt
litteral protestant bullshit,
the inquisition doesn't do witch hunt it does trials.

>>17632612
>heretics are dangerous, obviously they must suffer.
Obviously, which proves my original point
>Because they couldn't be anything else. Christianity was a disguise for their esoteric thoughts

>>17632088
6 translators?

>>17632621
“Esoteric” christianity (which is just christianity) made presence in the writings of basically ALL great theologians (Augustine, Eriugena, Eckhart, Tauler, Bonaventure, Dionysius, Gregory of Nyssa, Cusanus), not to mention one of the greatest influences on early Christianity, Philo, who showed that platonism is a universal hermeneutical tool to disclose the “esoteric” side of Scripture.

>>17632649
Except that alchemy is not esoteric Christianity, it is pagan in origin and teaching. "The Reddening" and making oneself a god is not exactly Christian by any means.

>>17632654
I thought by esoteric you meant really esoteric as inner, concealed meaning. Alchemy is indeed pagan but it is not because of this that it was forbidden to be freely practiced (you can see pagan symbols assimilated to the christian tradition with no problems, for example).

>>17632088
>it's Christianity without the nonsensical elements
You're a retard.

>>17632894
Spoken like a true believer.

>>17632621
no I'm fucking serious, those heretics were being persecute because they were dangerous/politically subversive, nobody ever gave a fuck about anyone else.
If anything the church was clearly too tollerant of heresy.

>>17632902
you've been filtered hard by the difficult part of scriptures, either accept it or don't.

>>17632902
>christianity; which is the nonsensical element, adopted a lot of neoplatonism therefore neoplatonism is just Christianity without the nonsensical elements

>>17632088
>Why didn't neoplatonism really catch on since it's Christianity without the nonsensical elements?
Because Christianity is neoplatonism specifically built for mass consumption

>>17632923
Or rather like the intelligible is self-evident while a form of its explanation is just particular

>>17632351
You can practice alone, anon.
>>17632374
>hey genius the medieval alchemists were all Christian.
Cope lol.
>>17632683
Why was it forbidden then, anon?

>>17633001
>You can practice alone,
See >>17632609

>>17632093
fpbp

>>17632088
>Why didn't neoplatonism really catch on since it's Christianity
/sentence

OP faith is a gift from God, it's not something you can develop on your own. Spirit and the ability to become like God is a supernatural ability of man. "It makes no sense" is something someone who hasn't actually tried believing would say. Of course it makes no sense to you, the darkness does not understand the light. You must ask Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father to come into you and to give you the ability to know them. Then you might have faith, and might understand that Christianity is not nonsense and in fact a good deal of Platonism foreshadowed Christian belief. Where neoplatonism failed is exactly the same way you are failing now: it was man-centric, a navel gazing regimen, rather than an exhortation to praise what is true and divine.

tldr Pray, and ask God for faith so that you may understand.

>>17633034
The Hermetic Tradition by Julius Evola. Read it.

>>17633041
>You must ask Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father to come into you
I did that some time ago and nothing happened
I'm not being facetious, I honestly tried prayer but it led me nowhere. I'd honestly like to have faith but there's nothing there.

>>17633056
try fucking again
or just wait for that matters it always works. just not how you imagine it to.

>>17633062
>it always works
Really? I'll try again then
> not how you imagine it to.
What does that mean?

>>17632334
>Aurora Consurgens
Know where one can get it in a good edition?

>>17633069
>What does that mean?
if you imagine that you'll wake up one day and suddenly you'll feel this strange new sensation called faith, it rarely works like that.

>>17633084
Isn't it a wrong motivation to pray just to have faith? Now that I think about it more, it seems self-centered and not very noble.

>>17633104
no it's a positive feedback loop, if you are stagnant tho you have to start from somewhere.
Look into repetitive prayers such as the heart prayer/esichasm or the rosary.
you'll see what I mean.

>>17632334
Based as hell. I hope you make lots of gains this year anon

>>17632195
based master morality christians

>>17632195
>>17633146
Where are you faggots getting the notion Neoplatonism is escapism?? Holy copes

>not monistic
into the trash

>>17633056
Prayer is in many ways just like meditation. You must overcome yourself and simply do it without any expectation of progress of reward. Nothing kills spiritual progress like having expectations.

>>17633194
Is Neoplatonism not monistic?

>>17633191
I dont think I did. I called christians based for subverting and dominating pagans.

>>17633234
Christianity isn't

>>17633237
Oh is that what you were refering to? If so, yes, sorry for my confusion

>>17632615
>the escape in solitude to the Solitary
This is how Plotinus describes union with the One, so I think you are misinformed. As for Platonism, one might argue that the presence of the soul (of humans) in the sensible dimension has a demiurgic function, but both the Phaedo and the Phaedrus are clear that the aim of philosophical inquiry is to escape the cycle of reincarnation and live together with the gods - which is what Plotinus takes to be the union with the One.
Neither Plato nor Plotinus ever tell you to "believe" in anything: they argue for their positions and encourage you to have direct experience of the truth. One of the major points of debate between Greeks and early christians was precisely that, for greek philosophers, happiness was obtainable by yourself without divine grace and without belief - i.e. by meditation, exercise, and virtuous acts. This is all you need. No believe, no faith whatsoever: the aim is to become all-knowleadgeable. A platonic philosopher ultimately wishes to become god (omoiosis theos) rather than just worship it.

>>17632175
>the modern narrative which is in absolute rational and empirical sense a lot less believable.
kek

>>17633301
>escape the cycle of reincarnation
How do they figure you can do that only with reason?

>>17633301
>Neither Plato nor Plotinus ever tell you to "believe" in anything: they argue for their positions and encourage you to have direct experience of the truth. One of the major points of debate between Greeks and early christians was precisely that, for greek philosophers, happiness was obtainable by yourself without divine grace and without belief - i.e. by meditation, exercise, and virtuous acts. This is all you need. No believe, no faith whatsoever: the aim is to become all-knowleadgeable. A platonic philosopher ultimately wishes to become god (omoiosis theos) rather than just worship it.
gnosis vs faith

>>17633311
it is

>>17633075
The edition by Marie-Louise von Franz is readily available via inter-library loan if you live in the U.S. It is also frequently available used on eBay for about $80. You just have to ignore the psychological humbug in the commentary.

>>17633046
Good suggestion, Anon. This book is a life-changer for those who are truly seeking. Glad to see others suggesting it.

>>17632088
>OT, it makes no sense.
A dark entity promised power, genocides and usury if the tribe would torture its own babies and obey the dark entity.

>>17633407
>The edition by Marie-Louise von Franz
what? didn't she literally ignore half the book and not translate it?

>>17633359
where are your arguments

>>17633423
thank you retard, very cool.

>>17633359

>>17633301
>Neither Plato nor Plotinus ever tell you to "believe" in anything: they argue for their positions and encourage you to have direct experience of the truth.
wtf it's like buddhism all over again

>>17633462
Were you tortured, cattle-branded and mutilated by an evil cult of obedience?

>>17633457
She ignored Aurora Consurgens II, which appears to be a commentary by some later author. That would be nice to have too, but the only translation is virtually unobtainable. It's a separate text of inferior quality, so I wouldn't worry about it overmuch.

You'll like Olympiodorus then. He's the most accessible of them, and also the heaviest on the "pure allegory" of the myths.

>>17633318
Reason gives insight into how the cosmos is ontologically structured by the Good. Anyone who has knowledge of the Good (that which fundamentally "is") will live a life of virtue. While you could ask whether reason "alone" is enough to escape reincarnation, as Socrates and Plato write, reason inherently includes living it as the guiding source of your life (see Socrates' discussions that ignorance is the source of all evil--anyone who truly "knows" the good would not commit evil). By living a life of reason and virtue, you overcome the transitory becoming of the cosmos to model yourself on an eternal, divine model. Thus, your death will only kill the parts of you that are inessential and, should your soul be unencumbered by matter weighing it down, it will rise to the heavens in union with the gods.

>>17632291
>Christianity is Neoplatonism without the nonsensical elements, the tiers of demons and intermediary gods are condensed into saints and Christ, the theurgy rituals are condensed into Mass. Christianity was a streamlining of Neoplatonism.
came here for this.

atheist undergrads prefer having a big source of ramblings to get a long career analyzing a huge pile of brain turds

>>17632334
t. neophyte

Christianity doesn't exist without the Old Testament. You clearly arent interested in truth but only aesthetics

>>17632260
>by which I mean not the il/lit/erate 30 minutes a day
HOW DID YOU KNOW

>>17632454
Christians didn't believe in an infinite God prior to scholasticism?

>>17633664
>"you clearly aren't interested in truth"
>believes in the OT
lmfao

>>17633706
Low reading comprehension.

>>17633713
High autism.

>>17632088
https://youtu.be/uv6KLbkvua8?t=2211

>>17633225
precisely this

>>17633056
>I did that some time ago and nothing happened
As other anon said, don't hold God to a test; he works in his time. Prayer is a complicated topic but put simply it's asking for something, and relying on a promise in scripture that what is asked for shall be given. But there are conditions. Have you made yourself meek? Have you made any attempt at stopping yourself from sin? Have you obeyed Gods two simple-ass commandments? Are you charitable? Not just in alms, but in patience with others and charity of thought as well.

Or is the hubris of your intellect still the gatekeeper of what you will accept as true? It seems so to me.

Sorry if it wasn't clear before, try praying and in your prayer ask for faith. Ask to receive the grace of true faith, and read some Aquinas while you're at it. God is real, and much of what people have come to understand about scripture is fact. It is the master of this world and his minions who control it that want you to disbelieve, or to trust in your own intellect. Be humble, and keep trying to bring yourself into alignment with Him and his ways.

>>17633952
Posts like this really make it clear to me that Christianity is unsuitable for people like me.
>t. not the guy you replied to

>>17634027
>Posts like this really make it clear to me that Christianity is unsuitable for people like me.
I'm curious why you think that is. Reducing any religious practice to a psychological exercise and checking yourself for "compatibility" against that man-made and self-sabotaging metric alone seems like a very unscientific, uncurious thing to do. I want to know more about why you say its so clear in your mind.

t. the guy you replied to

>>17633653
this post brought to you by smoothbrain postgrad gang

>>17634102
If you are curious to know, then very well, I will explain.
>>17633952
>As other anon said, don't hold God to a test; he works in his time.
This is basically a pointless thing to say, since in effect it means "you may never get any evidence that you are actually getting closer to god, ever". You are not wrong, it's just... underwhelming? Demoralising?
>Prayer is a complicated topic but put simply it's asking for something, and relying on a promise in scripture that what is asked for shall be given.
Praying for material things is a worthless endeavour as I understand it, but praying for the "grace" of spiritual growth similarly seems pathetic and miserable. Just because Christians take those things up as ideals doesn't make them any less appealing.
>Have you made yourself meek?
This is just lame.
>Are you charitable?
This is also lame. Attachment to material wealth is bad, but charity is not "good".
>but in patience with others and charity of thought as well.
"Thought" is the most precious resources, I'd much rather be balanced with it.
>Or is the hubris of your intellect still the gatekeeper of what you will accept as true? It seems so to me.
You mention Aquinas later so perhaps you are aware of the distinction between Logos and Nous. The "hubris" of intellect today belongs to the Logos alone. There is nothing at all wrong with trusting your spiritual intellect.
>Sorry if it wasn't clear before, try praying and in your prayer ask for faith.
This is actually effective, but since most of Christianity is unpalatable to me it's proven to be counterproductive.
>Ask to receive the grace of true faith
I dislike this feature of "the religion of mercy" too, I much prefer the various religions based on duty rather than "grace" and "salvation".
>read some Aquinas
Based.
>God is real, and much of what people have come to understand about scripture is fact.
This is just an assertion.
>It is the master of this world and his minions who control it that want you to disbelieve, or to trust in your own intellect.
I find this downright insidious, since as I mentioned earlier there is a perfectly acceptable middle ground between rationalist bugman and irrational "believer".
>Be humble, and keep trying to bring yourself into alignment with Him and his ways.
Upright conduct is a good thing, but framing it as an issue of "humility" is repulsive to me. It implies that the natural state of human beings is to crave the demonic rather than the divine and I can't say I agree, at least not in regard to my own life.

>>17634214
>charity is not "good".
you're so dark sasuke-kun

>>17634214
Thank you for the honest post.

>It implies that the natural state of human beings is to crave the demonic rather than the divine and I can't say I agree, at least not in regard to my own life.
This was the zinger that almost made me laugh. You have a view of philosophy that is completely backwards. I'm not surprised you think Christianity is not for you, you're a miserable cunt who is miserly with his good will and prefers to be uncharitable even in matters of thought that cost nothing.

>inb4 Time Is Money
that's the satanic mills milton warned us about

>Praying for material things is a worthless endeavour as I understand it
Only if you judge the worth of a thing depending upon whether your receiving what you asked for. Keep in mind that not all things you want are things that are good for you, and being denied something is often to a greater good. You can't know the truth of it because you're just a dumb mortal. And anyway too often people forget that 'freedom' means the freedom to *do wrong.* Only rarely do we use our freedom justly.

>"that is just lame"
Not an argument. Charity is a theological virtue and ostensibly more important than Faith, one of the other three theological virtues. It has order of precedence by a few means, it is obedience to God is deed rather than word and does not depend upon knowledge of the gospels for determining a person's salvation and happy reunion with God.

>I dislike this feature of "the religion of mercy" too, I much prefer the various religions based on duty rather than "grace" and "salvation".
Go read Portia's quality of mercy speech from Merchant of Venice. If you don't understand then, I'm not sure I can make it any clearer. Remember the goal is to make yourself like Christ.

>This is just an assertion.
Someone didn't read Aristotle.

>Upright conduct is a good thing, but framing it as an issue of "humility" is repulsive to me.
And here we start where we began, with me almost laughing out loud because you have it completely backwards. What possible attitude can a man have towards his creator *except* humility?

>>17634254
this desu, anon is on the path but he's been ill-informed and possibly oppressed by demons. he should see a priest for confession and go to Mass.

Just to be clear:
>It implies that the natural state of human beings is to crave the demonic rather than the divine and I can't say I agree, at least not in regard to my own life.

This is funny because you are arguing for the side of the demon's using their own -- the same -- reasons. Hubris. Will not serve. You claim righteousness and justice while rebelling against natural order. You *think* you crave the divine, but if you think you're too good for it buddy I have news: you may be under malevolent influence. Now is the moment of salvation, now is the time to cry out to heaven in remorse.

Humans are born into sin, we absolutely do crave the demonic. The more worldly we are, the more blind we become. [spoier]This is how millions of Americans could possible think killing children in the womb is "healthcare".[/spoiler] The fight is real, God is real, and I hope you come to see the truth for yourself.

>>17634254
>you're so dark sasuke-kun
My point is that charity does not make you a better person, spiritually or morally, which it absolutely does not. Some of the most awful people on earth are "charitable" or "philanthropists" and they expect you to applaud them precisely because they throw scraps to beggars.
>>17634297
>This was the zinger that almost made me laugh. You have a view of philosophy that is completely backwards. I'm not surprised you think Christianity is not for you, you're a miserable cunt who is miserly with his good will and prefers to be uncharitable even in matters of thought that cost nothing.
This went zero to a hundred really quickly, I can see that you yourself are very charitable of thought, lol. I don't even have anything to respond to here since this was all just one fat ad hominem, you didn't even address my point.
>Not an argument. Charity is a theological virtue and ostensibly more important than Faith, one of the other three theological virtues. It has order of precedence by a few means, it is obedience to God is deed rather than word and does not depend upon knowledge of the gospels for determining a person's salvation and happy reunion with God.
Charity may be a "theological virtue" but that only hampers the credibility of the theology, nothing else. I am not against charity, but to posit that it has positive effects on your spiritual growth seems ludicrous. Rejecting attachment to wealth is a sign of growth and charity is one too only insofar as it reflects the former.
>Go read Portia's quality of mercy speech from Merchant of Venice. If you don't understand then, I'm not sure I can make it any clearer. Remember the goal is to make yourself like Christ.
It's just an examination of mercy as a human virtue, which is unrelated, and then a repetition of the old Christian claim that we all need mercy because otherwise we're far too inclined towards the demonic and will be judged as demons.
>Someone didn't read Aristotle.
Aristotle did not argue for the existence of the Christian god and most certainly not for the validity of "scripture".
>And here we start where we began, with me almost laughing out loud because you have it completely backwards.
You sure seem extremely humble and intellectually rigorous. I think people like you only exalt humility because it lets them feel proud and offers a moralistic outlet for their arrogance. Ressentiment at its finest.
>What possible attitude can a man have towards his creator *except* humility?
Reverence, for one, which is an entirely different and vastly superior quality to "humility".

>>17633423
This. Yahweh is a demonic being

>>17634455
I addressed your points, you're just not well read enough to recognize it.

And yeah I know I come off as arrogant, and yes it pains me but evidently not enough to change. I *am* proud and rightfully so of my understanding of what is true and good.

>people like you only exalt humility because it lets them feel proud and offers a moralistic outlet for their arrogance
Tell it to the church fathers who codified humility as a theological virtue, and to Jesus himself who said we should be as little children. Meekness is what has been asked of us. I know I'm not doing too well at it, but my failures are mine and the example of a sinner knowing this basic stuff should edify you. There is still hope even for me.

>Reverence, for one, which is an entirely different and vastly superior quality to "humility".
The rest of your posts are absolutely dripping with French man-centric thought, I'm not surprised you would endeavor to present yourself as a reverent, but not humble, "peer" of God. As if heaven were egalitarian and not a hierarchy. Democracy really was a mistake.

>Charity may be a "theological virtue" but that only hampers the credibility of the theology, nothing else.
I'd like to see you explain how this makes sense. Especially in view of it literally being in scripture and the experience of mystics from ancient times through medieval period until today. From multiple cultures.

>I am not against charity, but to posit that it has positive effects on your spiritual growth seems ludicrous.
Again, tell it to the spiritual masters. You sound like a kid who's been overexposed to political theory and is incapable of understanding something outside of the context of human-human relationships.

>>17634552
>And yeah I know I come off as arrogant, and yes it pains me but evidently not enough to change. I *am* proud and rightfully so of my understanding of what is true and good.
Also apparently an incoherent hypocrite, given what you just said a bit above?
>The rest of your posts are absolutely dripping with French man-centric thought, I'm not surprised you would endeavor to present yourself as a reverent, but not humble, "peer" of God. As if heaven were egalitarian and not a hierarchy. Democracy really was a mistake.
Nothing about what I said is in the least bit democratic, reverence is always offered by the inferior to the superior. The difference is that reverence is the virtue a lord may show to his king, whereas humility is the virtue that a peasant shows to the local merchant. Nothing in any of my posts has been humanistic either. I deliberately specified that I am referring to the spiritual intellect, the Nous, not to "Enlightenment reason".
>I'd like to see you explain how this makes sense. Especially in view of it literally being in scripture and the experience of mystics from ancient times through medieval period until today. From multiple cultures.
I did, on the exact same line.
>Again, tell it to the spiritual masters. You sound like a kid who's been overexposed to political theory and is incapable of understanding something outside of the context of human-human relationships.
Appeal to authority is ineffective if the validity of the authority is what is being debated in the first place.

>>17632093
>>17632571
these, you drop plotinus real quick once you realize that it wasn't that long ago that nephilim walked the earth and people were sacrificing their children to moloch
>>17632291
Also this, although it should a
be stated that the reason Church theology resembles neoplatonism isn't because it was "inspired" by it. Rather the early Church Fathers had to be in conversation with the neoplatonists who were notable for the times. Saying christianity is wholy neoplatonic because of figures like dionysius and origen is like saying christianity is gnostic because of iranaeus (although former weren't necessarily refutations of neoplatonism, which was appreciated and discussed more seriously in the early Church). You can't look at the influences and dialogue of the early Church dialectically, they simply were trying the express, comprehend, and teach the Truth which of course would have shared similarities with the many distinct metaphysical notions of antiquity.

because it was never a religion, neo Platonism was assimilated by many religious cults in the day, the like of origen, st clement and augustine said " the spoils of the egyptians are fair game" and borrowed much of its ethics and epistemology, plotinus himself worshipped the gods, but as a whole it never perfectly fit with any one religion in say the form Plotinus held it, plus neo Platonism was inaccessible to the masses, the elite classes respected it but the common man didnt understand it, neither did the elite believe he could practice it if he could, the One was too abstract to pray to, neither does it have any concern with our existence and its perils to warrant praying to it. Also philosophically it would of been undermined, the problems of realism and empirical science demanded an answer it did not have, and its mystical happiness would of had little regard to the likes of communists. I remember this old guy in a bible study who said the reason he converted was " I did not make sense of all i read in the bible, but the stuff i did understand demanded an answer from me", and i think thats why Christianity still

>>17632088
Truth is that nobody would give his life for the God of the Enneads.

>>17632093
Nigger

>>17634791
Abraham tortured his own child. Semites either torture their children for their dark gods or they kill them. Wonder what they'd be like with better owners, semites I mean?

>>17632603
Neoplatonism /= gnosticshit

>>17632088
>I like the concept of Christianity but I can't believe its mythology, especially the stuff in the OT, it makes no sense.

So you just don't like the semitic elements of christianity?

>>17634868
Firstly being the chosen people of God doesn't mean all jews worshiped God or didn't worship demons. Secondly, if you're referring to Isaac, the point of that whole thing isn't that Abraham would kill his son for God. There's four very important prongs to this story;
1. people have, were, and still sacrifice their children to demons
2. certain direct interventions by God are unavoidable (but still actionable), especially if he's picked you to be the first in a long chain of very important people
3. the God of Abraham did not allow the sacrifice of Isaac to be actualized, making the sacrifice continual (as a premonition of Communion)
4. this was done to demonstrate to Abraham that He does not want those kinds of offerings
paganlarpers that defame abrahamism because of the sacrifice of Isaac are the same people who have been sacrificing their born and unborn children for thousands of years

>>17634962
>Secondly, if you're referring to Isaac, the point of that whole thing isn't that Abraham would kill his son for God.
He cattlebranded him and mutilated his sex organs in a gruesome and agonizing fashion.

>>17634604
>Appeal to authority is ineffective if the validity of the authority is what is being debated in the first place.
Appeal to authority doesn't work if you persist in being a cringe agnostic who cannot risk even a moment in the mysterious.

>>17635231
I am not an agnostic though lol.

>>17634552
>French man-centric thought
huh?

>>17633062
Kek
>I-IT WORKS TRUST ME BRO YOU MIGHT GET SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERWNT BUT IT STILL WORKS BRO ITS NOT CONFIRMATION BIAS TRUST ME I SWEAR BRO

>>17632454
Isn't one of the core concepts of the triune god that it encompasses all those elements?
> dying human god
check
>infinite, transcendent, (not sure about indifferent)
check

and then some third thing for the holy spirit, I don't know pentecost or something

>>17632195
LOL John balance

>>17632088
Once you read the quote below, the OT will make sense.

Mankind is poised mid-way between the gods and the beasts - Plotinus

>>17633062
watch your language

>>17636347
The quote is a personal favourite of mine

>>17636347
>>17637066
He literally ripped off nietzsche about Ubermensch and beast dichotomy

>>17632195
>Academy has centuries of thought and discussion, pinnacle of western thought
>Get outsmarted by Christians who steal all their ideas and close them down

Not so smart now nerds lmao

>>17633460
where are yours?

>>17632902
>>17632911
>>17632916