/lit/ - Literature

no

/thread

>>17613650
Could I at least hear your criticisms? I worked a good 20 minutes on this.

this site has nothing to offer anyone that isn't an autistic child or manchild at this point. the spamming of the same repetitive generic cartoon pictures like pepes and wojaks are a textbook example of that

>>17613628
2007 anon here. This place has changed into unrecognizability from when I was a young man due to the democratization of the site. I'd say once full internet censorship is in place that that will herald the "winter" you describe.

>>17613658
As an oldfag, this may be somewhat correct.

It should be noted that 4chan has gone through many dips and recoveries though. After the golden age of /b/ (2003-2009), there was a lull in user activity. The site really slowed down from 2010-2013 and became very stale. Around 2014 /pol/ started getting active and producing some interesting content and threads.

It wasn't really until Trump that there was a "rebirth", but there's a good chance a lot of this was astroturfed by cambridge analytica shills spamming professionally made pro-trump memes which /pol/ users accidently attributed to /pol/.

It could even be speculated that 4chan hasn't been purely organic since /b/ and /x/'s golden ages, or possibly it was never organic. Always being shilled by intel agencies and various social engineering operations.

But overall, I agree with you. I wonder about the future of 4chan after using it for over 15 years.

4chan has definitely hit it's point of senility. The sad part is that the rest of the internet still dosen't compare.

>>17613628
If you're old enough to remember the site pic related was from, that too went through a similar cycle, though in less time.

>>17613628
it makes sense to me, and i think your placement of us at late autumn/early winter is correct as well
the problem is that fundamentally, anonymous imageboards don't scale well and anonymity has some really bad side effects that make it extremely easy to shill with (you can't see post histories, there's no credibility, etc). hyperpartianship and defensive shitposting (dilate, have sex, ywnbaw, etc) are another big problem
i don't know what comes after 4chan, honestly. i've been going here for nearly fifteen years. i spent most of my adolescence here, and all of my adulthood. this place accounts for virtually all of my socialization, because i rarely meet anybody worth bothering with and i find the anonymity of this place, with all its flaws, much less stressful than actual directly interacting with anybody. it's been said that the site is dying pretty much constantly throughout the entire time i've been here, but this time it really does feel like things are dying down here. maybe that's a good thing, who knows, but i really will miss this place when it's dead for good

>>17613658
You wasted 20 minutes making a shit thread while you could have been reading Henry James and William James instead.

>>17613697
4chan has always had a sort of reputation as a meme originator around the internet. This place got credit for creating a bunch of late 00s early 10s memes like trollface, rick rolls, ragefaces, the fappening nude leaks. Even now you can find the wojaks, pepes, Chads, Nordic Yes guy, soijaks etc all on Twitter

>>17613798
It is very possible social engineers have been using 4chan as a proxy to release their own memes for various reasons

I've seen many memes become popular that were completely inorganic when they were originally being shilled on the boards

>>17613802
You're literally schizophrenic.

>>17613815
lmao what

does baby not know about cambridge analytica

>>17613827
Bruh it wasn't even hired by the Trump campaign until 2016, well after the Trump memes had taken off. You're literally a mentally ill schizophrenic if you think fucking gigachad and rickrolling was made popular via some corporate engineers.

>>17613628
If you don't consider the astroturfing /pol/ shit a harbinger of winter you need to get the fuck out of my face.

For a very oldfag, 03-06 is Spring, 07-10 or 11 is summer (height of meme input and output, "board culture" flourishing, able to maintain overall community while being notorious), Fall comes with Gamergate/m00t giving up (direct intervention of foreign element tears at previous community head) and we're currently in the winter of newfags completely disrupting previous 4chan culture for their faggot shit.

If the site doesn't go down in the next year or so, there'll probably be a new cultural Spring with how the mods are balkanizing boards more, while generals and psedogenerals balkanize intra-board communities that create their own memes.

>>17613877
>Le' trump campaign
>Literally mentally ill!!!!

You think social engineering begins and ends with petty little political campaigns? You're on a fucking literature board and you don't even know about the history of social engineering, or the use of Freudian/Jungian symbology in mass media.

If you can't put the pieces together to see how memeology can infect the mass subconcious in ways beneficial to the social engineers, I can't help you

>>17613628
>Memegler
Holy shit shut the fuck up

>>17613815
Shill trying to discredit the power of memetic programming via the internet. If only the people knew how much power they truly have of subverting, destabilizing and deleting the elites off the face of this side of four dimensions. 4chan in 2016 was just an example of what is possible. This model will be emulated on a larger scale in the future once people are fed up enough with the increasing dystopian nightmare technocratic slave grid prison planet. You can already see them trying to fast track engineer human consciousness to their slave ideal because many are waking up plus a lot of shit is happening on a cosmic scale they won't ever tell you about but you can find out if you look into the correct sources (not shills like alex jones or icke). They are already labelling people who can detect the patterns as mentally ill or schizo. Why do you think this board is flooded with the "take your meds" meme.. haha anyways I bet you think I'm crazy don't you. Yea it's cool I would too if I was you (thank god I'm not) Now let's all watch the reply telling me to take my meds. Kthnxbye.

>>17613628
I've toyed with a similar idea in my mind. But more info about communities in the internet is needed, to see if Spenglers ideas apply to digital space.

On one of his recent streams, hiroyuki responded to "Why did 2chan go out of style?" with saying that all the talented OC makers moved to twitter where they could get real exposure and better criticism, while the untalented people stayed and had to become attention whores to keep people's attention. The same applies a little here

>>17613628
>>smaller boards are able to continue mostly fine but /pol/ becomes too schizophrenic to browse as a result of the new boomer/reddit posters + shills + discord trannies
Filtered. 4chan is at its best today. Fuck your gay lyricism, you don't have what it takes to embrace pure chaos. 4chan is peaking and you weakfags should go back to r*ddit

>>17614340
Yeah we sure miss Twitter attentionwhores and their epic skills lmao go back loser and kys with your retarded moot2 simping

>>17613877
>Bruh
Cringe
>You're literally a mentally ill schizophrenic if you think fucking gigachad and rickrolling was made popular via some corporate engineers.
Based

>>17613673
It's to deter faggots like you from coming here anymore

>>17613697
>cambridge analytica shills spamming professionally made pro-trump memes
why would they

>>17614353

>>17614254
you are onto something

>>17613628
Well what Spengler is doing is providing a framework through which we can make sense of history so you can apply that framework to anything and you’d get useful results. And he’s always comparing that to the more general growth and decay cycle of plants. But I think a better way of understanding the internet is more entropic. It seems to me that the quality of discourse generally breaks down. I haven’t seen nor do I foresee periods of regeneration where discussion quality rises back to where it used to be. Things just gradually degenerate here. Which is fine because this place is mostly a waste of time and I’d rather be reading anyway.

>>17614371
They didn't. Cambridge Analytica was not operating on 4chan, they were shilling on mainstream social media especially on Facebook. All these corps have obvious boomer/shill memes like the green Biden one. Non-schizos can detect shills and glowies, but schizos have small brains so everything is a shill to them. Pic related is an example of glowposting.

>>17614371
to be clear what I mean with this is: why would they shill pro trump memes when they did their utmost to destroy him to the point that they destroyed their own systems legitimacy

>>17614413
that's more like it, yes. That fits the pattern.

>>17614416
Cambridge analytica supported conservatives retard

>>17613628
I just finished Voyage of the Space Beagle by AE van Gott (proto startrek) and presently know nothing about spengler. But the archaeologist in the novel has the same 'cyclical theory of civilization' what is funny. Van Gott clearly a spengler fan. Where should I start if i want to into him?

>>17614442
Start with the man and technics, and after that proceed in any order you want.

>>17614442
with his book

>>17613628
>the absolute state of Spenglerfags

>>17613701
This

Op i liked your post but honestly i disagree with your notion of decline. To me this place is the same as it always was, and idealizing the glory days is just a romantic daydream. You only need to go back to the archives to see how cringy and boring original 4chan "culture " really was (Longcat is long HAHAHA HA)

Honestly the core of 4chan and what sets it apart from the rest of the internet is still here, i.e. Anonymity. This is the only place not only online but anywhere in the world where you can find true honesty, about the human condition, the state of people's lives, people's true opinions.

4chan has changed because life has changed and 4chan was only ever a reflection of the subconscious shadow of society, at least, young white men's society. And it still is, but young men's society has changed now, it's darker and more bleak and there are no political horizons anymore, globohomo won, which is why pol is dead.

So 4chan, it's still what it always was. A place for true honesty, the only place in the world, where the usual bullshit social games of reputation and brownie point scoring doesn't exist.

Pepe and wojak, Chad and virgin, these are just refinements, archetypes of our subconscious, almost like the Greek gods. At first there were so many memes, but they faded due to irrelevance, not because it was a better time. The memes we have now encapsulate our experience perfectly, so it's all we need.

>>17614254
based new memetic aeon poster

>>17614254
>many are waking up
Lmao I’m tired of seeing this shit people have been saying this for decades. There was more of a chance of it happening then than there is now. People are more instrumentalized by power via the internet than ever. This is what was particularly disgusting about the Trump phenomenon. It reignited a belief in people that their action had the power to change things. But notice how Power was never actually harmed, in fact it gained strength by having a boogeyman. And now I hear the chorus muttering about how The Awakening is imminent. That’s fantastic. We made no material advances but we can have this collective myth that really soon everything is gonna landslide in our favor. You’ve been psyopped. And yes glowies absolutely have been experimenting on this place from very early on. This is another conceit that’s been annoying me, that dissidents must escape to some decentralized platform where discussion is totally free. Thing is that decentralization benefits the psyop machine. Information spreads quickly regardless of its truth quality, the poster’s identity is unknown, and the network is easily susceptible to big players (An example of this was the wallstreetbets event where a small group of wealthy people really kickstarted the meme through their investment in gme. They made out like bandits while most lost money.) What appeared to be an exit was merely a deeper turning into the labyrinth.

>>17614254
Yeah mostly agree but i think you overestimate the amount of centralized control that exists over the world trajectory. There are trends as you say and there definitely is an agenda to advance them but it's not as though they have 100 percent control or anywhere even close to 10 percent. The rest is just history playing itself out unconsciously without any intention behind it. See you in 20 years in the manufactory maybe we can eat some bug paste bars together

>>17614426
>trump was conservative
kek
he was the last attempt at compromise.

>>17614442
1 it's van vogt
2 Spengler's theory isn't cyclical.

>>17614563
>thinking Trump was anything but a means of accelerating the subversion
wew

>>17613628
>>2003-2008 (Spring)
>>identity just beginning
>>4chan's culture at its most lyrical
>>creativity abounded
>>fairly unwell known and niche website

I've been thinking for a year or two now that there must be some new underground website that the antisocial teenagers are browsing that most of us will never know about or will be too old to fit in. Or if it doesn't exist it will soon. Something has to fill the niche that 4chan used to

>>17614557
unironically this
but you're still a glowie.

>>17614571
it's in private discords now.

>>17614581
This. It's a completely new paradigm

>>17614566
>Spengler's theory isn't cyclical.
And what makes you think that

>>17614563
Didn't know low IQs browsed lit
>>17614568
This, if you don't see that trump was a useful tool for globo agenda, you're fucking stupid. Wait a year and pepes will be illegal, a terrorist "hate symbol."

>>17614568
well they fucked it up hard then because to remove him they had to destroy the credibility of their own system.

>>17614599
based retard but still retard. I thought about it too stuff wouldn't have moved like they did if this was the plan..

>>17614416
controlled opposition frend

>>17614600
Oh it is? And what are you going to do about it?

>>17613628
4chan is not a civilization
Going by Spingleberry and his /pol/ tool asslickers it would be a sign of the total degeneracy of our civilization
To everyone else it's just a way to pass time while slaving for the man

>>17614606
>I thought about it too stuff wouldn't have moved like they did if this was the plan..
Damn the Trump psyop really did a number on you. Sad!

>>17614600
>they had to destroy the credibility of their own system.
Lel. Do you seriously think that normies are gonna "wake up".
The system is more credible than ever dude. Everyone trusts the govt now. Everything is "back to normal" now which is what the NPC libs thought they wanted.

>>17613796
Now you're shilling both Jameses?

>>17614638
no, normies won't wake up.
1984 is pretty spot on on the role of the proles.
those that were needed to wake up, however, did.
Interacting with the system has been shown as unequivocably useless on its own terms, checks and balances as a concept has been debunked so hard it belongs with astrology and phrenology and I'll be surprised if anyone will even bother to go vote in 2022.
The system killed itself, now we build the next one.
>>17614635
lol the black pill psyop really got you good
you think that leaving you with no hope was an happy side effect instead of the whole point? they shat themselves the whole time while pulling the psyop because they were actually afraid of people doing anything.
They won, thanks to people like you they didn't.

>>17614623
build the new system
and survive until it's needed.
litteraly on easy mode now.

>>17613692
>I'd say once full internet censorship is in place that that will herald the "winter" you describe.
After that will come the age of the ceasars and the new religiousness, which in 4chan terms means turning a now death site and idea into a 400 page book describing the history of 4chan.

>>17614571
>there must be some new underground website that the antisocial teenagers are browsing
Nah it’s over, from age 4 kids have an iPhone which is programming them into the perfect consumer. They think in tik toks, are functionally illiterate, and are watching porn at seven.Their schools are thoroughly degraded. Shakespeare survives in the classroom two more years max. It hardly matters tho, when I passed through there was no incentive to actually read him. It was more time effective to go through the sparknotes than it was to thumb through a book. And test rigor was so low that that actually worked. I got an A on my Macbeth test without reading Macbeth. Gen z is fucked but the next generation will be even more so.

>>17614712
>Nah it’s over
kek
if only just begun

>>17614691
>>17614696
>The system killed itself, now we build the next one.
Oh so you have a new government system you’re going to establish? Tell me about that, you must have a pretty genius idea

>>17613628
Nice theory but I think you are wrong about blue boards.
They seem to have this weird identity crisis where they try to compensate by being "as not /pol/ as possible" where even the slightest thing will set them off barking like rabid dogs

>>17614740
>a new government system
kek.
you talk about me like I'm either deluded by psyops or derangedly ambitious, yet you can't stop thinking within the confines of the psyop you were sold.
I'm not establishing anything.
I'm founding the new elite, and the new narrative.
Too many people playing George Washington, but now it's not Washington time, it's enciclopedia time.

>>17614510
The idea that you get unfiltered honesty because of anonymity on the chans, even that very idea is antiquated itself.
What you get, in general, is garbage. Pure garbage posted by people who are thrilled at the idea of calling you a nigger for the first time. There isn't anything honest or insightful 90% of the time here, it's just retards flinging shit for no reason other than they can. It's not an accurate reflection of anything besides the fact that carefully curated forums are superior.

>>17614773
>I'm founding the new elite, and the new narrative.
I’m just wondering what you’re project is, what is this new narrative?

>>17613628
>So what do you guys think of my little theory?
I think that you take it up the buns :D

>>17614829
Government is slavery. Anarchy is pure. Natural Law is always right.

>>17613628
its a good example of Sprengler's error, namely comparing a glorified past to a messy present. much like the civilizations Sprengler describes its summer and spring is never in the present, but are rather glorified myths which as a result make the current times appear as a decay, when in reality those golden ages are almost always just as messy. your (and sprengler's) theory is the result of poor historical understanding.

>>17614844
Wow that’s some insightful stuff. I’m sure those ideas will win out pretty soon

>>17614866
>Elizabethan England is just as good as now bro, art standards haven’t declined at all!

>>17614866
And yet societies fail, implying there was in fact an era of weakening or decay.
You're trying to explain away the entire phenomenon.
>Don't listen to Spengler goys, nothing can be different than the present, it was always exactly like this

>>17614814
this poster is a nigger

>>17614878
elizabethan england had its vast wealth of shitty art, slock, and self-felating bullshit similar to the current art world, but you dont see or read those because theyre shit.
>>17614882
im not saying it will always remain the same, or that civilzations cannot fail or fluctuate in power, but it never has a univocal highpoint, and it does not move in neat cycles. golden ages or 'springs'/'summers' are always as much marked by corruption, degeneracy, and poverty as its 'winter' or 'fall', but in different flavours, with more power localised in certain places, more hidden problems, better at telling themselves theyre great. its a failure of serious historical and philosophical analysis to ignore the ugly bits and just call it glorious.

From The Decline of the West Volume II pp. 1473-4

>The Ur-Konzept of the Chan High Culture is that of the Basement. While similar to the Median High Culture's Ur-konzept of the Cave in which magical elements battle for supremacy, the Chan's Ur-Konzept is one in which memes inundate every aspect of Space outward toward infinity. While the Faustian world-soul of infinite outward expansion finds its analogue in this Chanian quest for "lulz." While this phenomenon is little more than a rarification of the urban ecumenopolis' Socratic cynicism of the Faustian Winter, it is much funnier.

Spengler predicted this.

>>17614941
Name a piece of literature written in the past 20 years equal to Shakespeare

>>17614966
My diary desu

>>17614867
he's not me I was having lunch.
My main influences are Carlyle, Pareto and Augustine.
A complete reading list however would be massive; Confucius, Mishima, Lao Tzu, Aquinas, Mises and Hoppe would all make an appearance in there, and the contribution of old Ricardian socialists and distributist thinkers can't be overstated.
I see the emergence of an elite as inevitable in every possible system, and the role of the "monarch" as representative of the elite and chief PR guy as desiderabile.
If the PR's guy role is religiously sanctioned, all the better.
I consider the elite as a desiderable feature of society as long as it can expell unworthy elements and adopt new ones.
I wish to build an elite with sensible functions of circulation: relatively easy to get in and/or be kicked out but not too easy.
I consider the Roman Custom of Adoption to be an adequate mean to ensure the circulation of the elite in the short term.
I consider certain veterotestamental uses that God taught the Jews to be sensible for general adoption. In particular the laws pertaining Land (you can't ever sell it only give it for rent) and new citizens (you will be admitted inside the community after three generations).
I wish the indipendent small farmer, the artisan, the artist and the warrior to be more important than the factory drone, the e-girl and the soldier.
I consider Paul's guideline for the first Christian communities to be a good starting point.
I consider that the elite should be actively kept away from the necessary functions of providing the welfare state if their position will be in any way elective. A state church kept actively and ferociously independent can provide for that.
If instead the mechanism for entering the elite isn't elective, then the elite can partecipate in part.
I wish to implement these changes through example, pratiche and writing.
I'm formalizing this material in a document which will mainly pertain the metaphysical aspects and axioms in a similar way as the declaration of independence of the US starts by declaring certain truths to be self evident.
My document declares the laws of Blood, Soil and Breath as self evident.
I consider the aim of the state to be to preserve the "salus populi" as expressed by these three truths and therefore the Imperium.

will this site ever be good again?

>>17615008
it was never good

>>17615008
The only constant is change. I believe some Japanese guy once said that we can't bring the fondly remembered days back the way they were so we should not try.

>>17615022
it was never this bad though

>>17615030
you can't ever have the past back but you can remove the degenerate parts and build something new from what remains.
Venice was born as "Roman Republic, well get it right this time" after Attila btfo northern Italy.
It did last 1000 years.

>>17614966
in my opinion the main playing field of the arts has shifted away from theatre into the novel into now cinema.
although it is hard to pick an author that will stand the test of time without actually facing the test of time, i think its not problematic to say the novel has reached similar heights as theatre through writers like Kafka and Dostoevsky. Likewise I think cinema has produced similar talent in say Bergman and Tarkovsky.
I have a few personal picks for artists in recent years although no clear enough academic discussion and consensus has formed to convince a sceptic

>>17615031
>>17615044
seems like the message is to build a new imageboard somewhere safe and nice.

>>17614510
beautiful

>>17615006
#DeletetheElite

>>17615050
we should

>>17615061
yes
and build the new one.
Only this time we make it last a bit more before it degrading into degeneracy.
Then more and more.

>>17615063
ok
contact?

>>17614510
>A place for true honesty, the only place in the world, where the usual bullshit social games of reputation and brownie point scoring doesn't exist.
90% of posts these days are trolling for (you). They are upvotes and retweets of 4chan.

>>17614571
They are in decentralised, transient discords.

>>17614773
>I'm founding the new elite, and the new narrative.
>Too many people playing George Washington, but now it's not Washington time, it's enciclopedia time.
Gotta love how pretty much everyone in fringe politics these days has ended up at the conclusion that they're engaging in some great struggle by sitting on their ass and posting all day. You can look at the most nominally radical siegefags, revolutionary communists or anarkiddies and they're all doing the same shit.

>>17615108
I don't think you can get that edgy on discord these days can you?

>>17615284
that might be exactly because the elite destroyed the illusion of anything we can do through the system affecting anything, and therefore indirectly itself.
Not yet tho.
Now we write.

>>17615289
you absolutely can
you just have to move fast.

>>17615075
I'm not as philosophically literate as you but why is there an insistence of establishing a group of elites in your world system? What happens when an individual or a group of individuals who aren't harming anyone else wishes to live a life that are not in alignment with the dictates of this "elite"? Why should they be forced to adjust their free will in accordance with something that doesn't let them live life as they wish provided it isn't infringing upon the rights and freedoms of others who want no part of it. I'm not some hardcore constitutionalist but my thinking tends rowards a lot of the principles that the framers and founding fathers talk about. I don't get dogmatic about it but I think those people's ideas are foundational for creating a truly anarchist state where morality and individual freedom to live as one wishes can coexist. Study of natural law as a science and guideline for moral principles is the missing puzzle piece as well as the idea of free will as one of the most important laws of all existence. Anyways I just don't like the idea of an elite. At BEST there could be wise sages scattered throughout the communities considered to be "elders" (not "masters") who advise only when asked... no dictates to obey or any kind of bullshit like that. People will be trained in objective morality which is an offshoot of natural law and live in pure anarchy without harm being done to others.. of course there will occasionally be bad apples but if this is done correctly it will be few and far. I know there holes in this theory but its a good model/vision for me to build upon. The eventual end goal is a population that maximizes its full infinite potential eventually to become a group that becomes a "service to others" type of group travelling to the various corners of the universe as a purely benevolent species helping those still evolving... anyways just a rant of sorts... i just don't think an elite is required at all in a society. Kthnxbye

reminder: every empire can and will fall, regardless of their position. it's not a matter of if but when.

Greece:
>The young hotshot Alexander of Macedon has done it, he has united the disparate Greek city-states into a unified force and he's toppled the neighboring superpowers in Persia and Egypt. The Hellenistic Period will forever change the world!
>Alexander dies, his successors prove far less capable, all of the subsequent kingdoms slowly fall and the Greek people become culturally assimilated into their conquerers.
>After two thousand years of subjugation, an indepedent Greek state exists but it remains nowhere close its former glory.

Egypt:
>They control the most fertile farmland in the world, they've accomplished great architectural works, and have no neighbors that can threaten them, and they've been able to be a power for three thousand years. They even survived the bronze age collapse when none of their rivals could!
>Complacency due to no immediate rivals and threats, Alexander, Rome, and Sultanates are able to come from afar and conquer, becomes subjugated under foreign powers for nearly two thousand years.
>Has only re-emerged as an independent state in recent years and is nowhere close to its old glory.

Rome:
>They control the Mediterranean, they've got naturally defensible positions at rivers (Rhine, Danube, Euphrates), they've got the finest trained and armed heavy infantry in the world, how can they ever fall!
>Decadence, decay, corruption, invasions past their natural defensible positions under adverse circumstances permanently damaging their ability to defend against future invasions.
>Fall of Rome, Eastern Rome (Byzantium) is able to carry the torch for a while but nowhere close to the old glory, once 1453 hit even Constantinople falls and Rome has never risen again.

Persia:
>They're such a historical state, their decentralized government means that a new government can always pick up if one dynasty falls, and their position between the west and east gives them a huge position in terms of both trade and technology. Their unique defensible position in the mountains means that even if they're defeated they'll be able to retreat to an area that will be nearly impossible to conquer!
>Initial conquest by Alexander happens, albeit they bounce back and thrive until they get into a protracted conflict with Rome until their eventual conquests by the Sultanates.
>Spend most of the last 1350 years under foreign subjugation, their religion becomes irrelevant and their culture becomes significantly diminished. Once they finally became an independent state again they've only been able to be a somewhat relevant regional power.

India:
>They control this vast land with massive fertile areas, they have rivers and mountains to protect their borders, they're huge innovators in the fields of mathematics and medicine, how can the Golden Age of India ever fall!
>Infighting, Muslims, colonials destroy their position and they fall far behind in all fields.
>Have finally reunited as a state and are regaining their glory but are still poverty stricken and a second rate power compared to the current global hegemons.

Sultanates:
>Their rise and subjugation of such a vast swath of territory is meteoric, they've conquered Persia, North Africa, and taken significant chunks of Byzantium and Iberia. Their military force conquers with fervor and their advances in mathematics, architecture, and astronomy as well as their ability to adapt the ideas of their enemies puts them in a fantastic position. The propagation of their language and religion means they've got great aid in maintaining their massive empire!
>Decadence, Mongols, Crusades, Turks, Collapse. Much of the extent of their empire no longer is arab nor muslim.
>The entire region has never recovered to this day and remains fragmented.

Mongols:
>The finest cavalry in the world manage to unite under one banner, toppling the regional superpower in China and they proceed to conquer most of Asia under the brilliant tactics of Genghis Khan and Subutai, leading to their conquest of Persia, Russia, and their forays even into Eastern Europe - thousands of miles away from their home. Their control of the Silk Road leads to a Pax Mongolica in which the Mongol people undergo their greatest height in terms of cultural advancements and standard of living. With a fighting force so feared, how can such a mighty empire fall!
>Genghis Khan dies, the resulting other Khanates still maintain some power for hundreds of years but inevitably every single one falls to their neighbors.
>Mongolia eventually finds itself under Chinese conquest, and while it is independent today it remains an irrelevant state on the global or even regional landscape.

Spain:
>Their rise through the Reconquista, Iberian wedding, and foray into a colonial empire puts them as the new global leader. An unmatched colonial empire leads to unprecedented levels of wealth entering the empire from the New World in addition to a huge amount of influence coming from their holdings in the Netherlands and Italy. There seems to be no end to the conquests both far abroad and in the European theater!
>Rapid inflation, the fall of the Spanish Armada, control of the state by foreign powers through the Hapsburg and French royalties, collapse of colonial empire, collapse of economy, slow downfall from THE great power to a great power, to a secondary power, to a relatively irrelevant European state by the end of the 19th century.
>The Spanish Civil War, autarky, and their modern economic issues cement their status as a second rate European nation. Chance of a return to glory is slim to none.

France:
>The finest fighting force in the world and a wide reaching colonial army to match. In both the monarchy and in the empire they are a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. Their language and culture is the envy of the world as they establish the lingua franca as the language of diplomacy and culture worldwide!
>Setbacks happen eventually with the French Revolution, fall of Napoleon, defeat in the Franco-Prussian war and the pyrrhic victory of World War 1 but all seems well enough. The absolute defeat in World War 2, their diplomatic setback in the Suez Canal crisis, and the fall of their colonial empire result in France's fall to a secondary power in the new global landscape.
>While they maintain a decent global position, they're no longer the leaders of Europe nor the world, and English has replaced French as the lingua franca.

Germany:
>The finest troops, commanders, and military tactics in the world. Their industrial base and population aid itself to being able to wage war against all of their neighbors and they accomplish the difficult task of uniting the German states for the first time in history. Victory in the Seven Years War shows their ability to fight against all odds, and their victories in the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian wars show their understanding of the modern geopolitical situation. The German century is inevitable!
>Despite their victory in the Eastern front of World War I, their defeat in the Western front leads to their disarmament, embarrassment, and rage leading to the rise of the Nazis and the start of World War II.
>The Germans cannot defeat the entire world in World War 2, they're fully partitioned post-war, they only reunite nearly five decades later, and while they're a powerful economic force to this day, their military might is all but erased and they're no longer in the position to ever become a global superpower as people might have predicted a century ago.

Britain:
>Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves! The finest navy in human history, an economy funded by the largest colonial empire in human history, and a home island situation in which invasion can only be accomplished by sea makes their fall extremely difficult despite all attempts by their rivals (the Spanish, French, and Germans, among others)
>Their economy and industry are ravaged by two World Wars, they're no longer able to hold onto their colonial empire, they're supplanted by their own former colony as the world superpower and they slowly lose their influence within Europe.
>They maintain their position as a relatively relevant power but their time as world leaders is only a memory, and they only drift further away from that status

Soviet Union:
>The Soviets are able to wrest control over mass swaths of territory thanks to their defeat of the Tsardom and subsequent victory over the Whites in the Civil War. They make great leaps in terms of technology and industry in the hopes of bringing their people into the modern world and their military into a modern fighting force. Despite massive losses in World War 2, they emerge as one of two global superpowers in the post-war world and in the ideological struggle, communism seems to be making great victories across the globe. Their advancements in technology and industry show in their production of weapons and in their accomplishments in the space race, despite being a technologically backwards state just 50 years ago. What can possibly go wrong with a nation that has leapt so far forward in so little time!
>Corruption, economic stagnation, the Sino-Soviet split, and the war in Afghanistan lead to the eventual collapse of the Warsaw Pact and then the Soviet Union itself.
>Communism is no longer a significant political ideology, the Russian state still is suffering economically, and they struggle to even be a second-rate global power in the modern world.

The tale of any other power is basically the same story. They conquer, they rule, they fall, a return never has a chance of occurring... though there is a single exception that has been emerging.

>>17614844
>>Government is slavery. Anarchy is pure. Natural Law is always right.
Anarchy lives only inside atheism, hence anarchy is retarded, inherently liberal and relies on the liberal deification of freedom.

I agree with empires are temporary but these are embarrassingly bad history you should stop posting them.

>>17615351
this desu

>>17615302
>insistence
I either build it myself or it emerges on its own and fucks everything over.
Read Vilfredo Pareto in particular.

>>17613628
I mean, it often isn’t as precise and perfectly divisible as all that. Keep in mind the four seasons are only a thing for climates of a certain latitude so maybe it’s more like a dry season/Monsoon season with 4chinnz. This site was more fun in the past, I think it was a different kind of fun that was more appealing to my kind of personality, where unbounded creativity is most important. But remember the internet itself has changed and I’d say it’s less exciting and fun than it was. Of course 4chan was better when most people didn’t know what it was. I don’t think this was deterministic based on some eternal cycle because 4chan isn’t a holistic closed system. 4chan isn’t a fun secret clubhouse anymore, it’s a porous void subject to the dynamics of the cultures it’s users originated from and the historical changes that have shaped the internet itself.
TL;DR 4chinnz is only lamer, less creative, and less high iq because the internet is lamer, less creative, and lower iq nowadays, not because of some inevitable cycle endemic to 4chinnz.

>>17615293
No it's because politics today is a simulacrum. Go listen to Chomsky talk about the socialist scene he came up in. He talks about how it was a direct outgrowth of these tight knit European immigrant urban communities that simply don't exist anymore. Community is gone, the family unit is gone, the 20th century class structure is gone. The commons is gone. There's basically nothing left for actual radicalism to arise out of so all we get is literal larp, tards like you who think they're Voltaire or Hitler or Lenin for posting and occasionally some misfit who can't take it anymore and goes and blows something up.

>>17615350
No anarchy is the most spiritual. Don't let the hollywood depiction of anarchy mislead you. If humans are adequately trained in objective morality (rights, freewill, no infringement upon freewill of sentient beings, harm none, etc etc) there is no need for government.

>>17615375
Your assumption that spirituality is just ethics with some garnish proves his point.

>>17615384
I'm not saying thats all that spiritiality is but i think some simple easy to understand principles can be used as a foundation for a society free from government. Shamanic tribes used to initiate people and their children into principles of objective morality via scientific/philosophical study of natural law. Most graduate and if one didn't for example of they showed psychopathic tendencies they were kicked out of the tribe. I would also like to add that the right to self defense is also a foundational spiritual right.

>>17615302
>What happens when an individual or a group of individuals who aren't harming anyone else wishes to live a life that are not in alignment with the dictates of this "elite"?
that's the funny part
in our current arrangement the elite rules through mind control, therefore It MUST Hunt down and destroy everyone that wishes to live outsider of it's bounds. Nobody can perceive an alternative to their system.
In my system, the Great change Is that the elite Is fucking honest and keeps Power through principles and arbitrary strenght.
Therefore It doesn't have to give a fuck about hippie anarchists Building a commune as long as they don't break the law.
my sister is litteraly anti-democracy but it will afford you more freedom than neoliberalism.
>Why should they be forced to adjust their free will in accordance with something that doesn't let them live life as they wish provided it isn't infringing upon the rights and freedoms of others who want no part of it.
this point is valid in itself but moot. as stated previously it is neoliberalism that will send the feds to your gay anarchist commune or something to search for drugs, not my elite.
Litteraly as long as you obey, they don't give a fuck.
>I'm not some hardcore constitutionalist but my thinking tends rowards a lot of the principles that the framers and founding fathers talk about
I sympathize, but the founding fathers have recently been disproved as hard as Lysenko.
>
Study of natural law as a science and guideline for moral principles is the missing puzzle piece as well as the idea of free will as one of the most important laws of all existence.
you can't derive an ought from an is.
I wish you could, believe me, but it's impossible.
>Anyways I just don't like the idea of an elite
you live under one that doesn't recognize itself as such, and which will do anything to make you live exactly as they wish you to live down to the last second of your existance.
An elite that doesn't accept itself as such and eternally LARPs as the free spirited open minded rebels while all marching in perfect lockstep.
This same group controls the medias and the internet and claims the moral high ground and "religious" authority of an atheistic religion.
Quite litteraly the final boss of tyrannies.
>People will be trained in objective morality which is an offshoot of natural law and live in pure anarchy without harm being done to others..
I'd love this to be possible.
>just don't think an elite is required at all in a society. Kthnxbye
Just read Carlyle and Pareto, they are good writers if nothing else.
Have a nice day anon.

>>17615306
No, you’re generalizing. (The fact that the lengths of time it takes these empires to fall varies wildly. Soviets only 90 years kek; Egyptians just last millennia; Byzantine empire wasn’t a shadow of Rome, it was half of the Roman Empire, the one that better managed itself, doesn’t understand that the Greek part of the Roman Empire was always superior to the less developed Western European and thus it was obvious the eastern Roman empire was always going to outlast its sibling; doesnt get that most of the smart Greeks converted to Islam and the Ottoman Empire is basically a successor to the Byzantine empire just islamicized the way the byzantines were christianized romans. Genetically moderns Turks are descended from Byzantine Anatolians. Doesn’t see the dynamic of how the Romans ingested and took on the mythology and culture of the Greeks and likewise the British financial empire was upheld by the American empire in a similar way) Maybe there are genetic cycles whereby an empire reaching a state where a kind of premodernity sets in will produce a dysgenic effect where the highest iq and k selected have fewer children.

>>17615429
>Shamanic tribes used to initiate people and their children into principles of objective morality via scientific/philosophical study of natural law
shamans had no idea of "scientific principles" they just did stuff again and again until it sort of worked.
And in doing so they invented authority.
Don't you see?
The elite always emerges.

>>17615449
>most of the smart Greeks converted to Islam and the Ottoman Empire is basically a successor to the Byzantine empire
>Genetically moderns Turks are descended from Byzantine Anatolians
Hello, Mohammed. How's Berlin?

>>17615447
Thanks for the input. I will follow up on your references for further research. Have a good one.

>>17614966
17. roman by Solstad

>>17615493
thank you for taking the conversation seriously, may you be happy and content.

>>17615429
As long as you're rooting your conception of what the spiritual is in some sort of society-building or morality teaching project then you're missing the point. What's spiritual about self-defense, shunning antisocial people or objective ethics. You're taking mundane shit and trying to give it a spiritual veneer because you're an atheistic person who doesn't know what spirituality even is.

>>17615471
lol

We'll know when it's winter, bros. Let's just enjoy autumn whatever we can, while it lasts.

>>17615514
I love winter. Weakfags and non-preppers freeze to death.

>>17615466
Yeah I see what you're saying. Maybe I'm just allergic to the word "elite."

Goddamit I really hate what these globalist scumbags are doing to humanity.

>>17615340
now write one for the USA
and what about your exception?

>>17615471
I am not Turkish. Have you seen Turks from Kazakhstan? They’re just Mongolians with slight Iranian admixture. If the invasion of the Turks completely wiped out the original inhabitants of Anatolia, the people of Turkey would look 100% Mongolian, which they don’t. Pic related are Kazakhs. Notice how they don’t look like modern people from Turkey.

>>17615521
yeah, it would be dishonest to give it another name tho.
Which is sort of the point, honesty.

>>17613628
sex gifs

>>17615509
Well I'm still working things out through different lenses. Some take the gnostic approach and believe spirituality to be a total escape from this realm into higher ones which I was/still resonate with to some degree... but im also reminded of something i heard in lecture once by i think it was the guy who built linix i dont remember exactly... he said its useless to stare at the stars all day when there are potholes in the ground that need to be repaired... something along those lines.. but again I'm still working it all out.. "spirituality" is tough to define. Some beings consider conquest as a spiritual impulse which i disagree with but hey you know who am i to judge gods infinite creations.

>>17615601
>he said its useless to stare at the stars all day when there are potholes in the ground that need to be repaired
If you think that spiritual ascent is pointless stargazing and that mundane politics ultimately matters at all then you don't get it. Start with the Greeks.

>>17614771
this. one time on /trv/ i used the term jewgle and some faggot came to lecture about how “this isn’t the place to spout your antisemitic bullshit”.

>>17615619
this guy is correct tho.
Blood, Soil, Breath

>>17613704
YTMND

>>17615721
Air, earth, fire, water, tit milk

>>17615742
nice and surprisingly relevant.

>>17613815
No he’s right, look at sneed and the boomer memes. Completely inorganic, synthetic injokes

>>17615766
true

>>17615721
The material world is ultimately just a reflection of the Divine. Once you approach anything resembling real initiation (and I'm not saying I'm some 360th degree guru or anything) it becomes extremely obvious that it's inessential. That doesn't mean that there's not a certain form of "mundane truth" regulating how things should be done on the plane most of us inhabit day to day but if you've had a glimpse of how things really stand and realize that that mundane truth is made meaningless on a higher level then it all becomes a sort of dance or game. Anyone taking it as if it matters in an ultimate sense, as fanatics have to, is only betraying their lack of knowledge. Check out Krishna's speech to Arjuna in the Gita when Arjuna cucks out, that's what he's talking about. Perform your mundane duties but perform them dispassionately and with your eyes on Divine truths.

>>17615962
I'm agreeing with you bro
blood is the fundation in time
soil is the fundation in space
breath is the fundation in animation.

sex gifs

>>17615766
sneed was not inorganic, it resulted from one guy shitposting relentlessly on /tv/. Eventually other people started doing it too, ironically, which led to backlash and more engagement, and eventually it became part of the culture. A lot of the memes on this site originate in the same way (remember *BRRRAAAAAAPPPPPPP*? that was just one guy spamming it originally, and then it caught on. F. Gardner for a more recent example.) If that's 'inorganic' then so be it, but since it take participation from the whole site for a meme to really 'catch on', then the term 'inorganic' loses its meaning. Remember, the joke was originally about Chuck's Fuck & Suck- 'sneed' as its own thing evolved through the collaborative exploration by many different anons of this simpsons joke, and, eventually, their interaction with the other anons and janitors that despised sneedposting, so that it eventually evolved into a cultural denominator of chaotic intent and disrespect for moderation.

/pol/ has hit Winter already.

>>17614413
>green Biden
Wasn't corporate. It was made by /leftypol/ and wignats who got tired of the Boomers on pol.

>>17613697
>>/b/ and /x/'s golden ages
You cannot discount /v/'s golden age

>>17614950
kek

>>17613697
lol 2010-2013 was the only time this site was worth coming to

>>17613697
>a lot of this was astroturfed by cambridge analytica shills spamming professionally made pro-trump memes
this meme again.
Everything post 2015 was a mimic of the organic trump pepe memes. Just look at the copies for Yang and Biden. It is jsut pasting their faces over the original or making their adaptions. No avant garde think tank group could have contrived the original trump memes they are far to endemic to that enclosed enviroment.
I agree the paggliaci meme was suspicious but see how quickly that died out again.
>>17614841
>german book
>doesnt look german
are you telling me there are cute boys in ireland and GB who learn german and would submit to one of the superior culture?

>>17614581
>>17614594
>>17615108
>>17615300
>discord
not sure I buy this, put in a more extreme way it sounds like
>good community is happening but in secret walled gardens that we don't know about, just out of our field of view
sounds schizo

>>17617740
i guess to add, have any of you ever seen a discord that wasnt an absolute dumpster fire of high school popularity contest drama? I have been in several and all but like 1 or 2 either die or become like this.

>>17613628
I've thought about it myself. Not sure if you can apply the model to the entire site. But definitely certain boards. What's interesting is that some boards are inert and don't have any noticeable pattern, like /lit/ or /sci/. Probably due to lack of population. While popular boards like /v/ and /tv/ seem to have had a cycle that conforms to Spengler's model, including a golden age of creativity followed by an explosion in population and influence and subsequent decline into repetition of meme formats and shitflinging. Just look at pic related. How many of these iconic 2011 memes are still used today, not just on that board specifically but across 4chan?

Another interesting parallel is 4chan and Reddit. In Spengler's model Culture is individualist and creative, while Civilization is collectivist and stale. 4chan's anonymity meant the community itself was never the focus, ideas could flow freely and nobody cared about getting upvotes. Reddit has literally never created a single original meme and simply regurgitates everything 4chan has created. Particularly popular there are meme templates sort of pre-loaded with humor, you already know what the meme is and why it's supposed to be funny before you even look at it. There is no danger or risk involved in editing a meme template. The intent with these is to garner upvotes and validation from the community, not to create an original and funny concept. Of course nowadays this is all much blurrier because 4chan is simply not the same 4chan it was pre-2016.

>>17613697
To say nothing of Zyzz and /fit/'s golden age of 2010-2013?

>>17613673
Smaller interest boards such as lit, sci or biz can be good

>>17615369
what a farce. what a perfect design?

>>17613697
>As an oldfag
you're a fag all right

>>17613628
I think its a decent enough sketch of the overarching phenomenon. good job.

>>17613628
Go back where you came from. In terms of site culture, SUMMER is a cancerous period of increased exposure and traffic. Ever since coronavirus there has been a permanent summer and because of lasting changes in burger education and employment situations they will never go back offline. But we can go deeper. Ever since the 2015-2016 election season there has been a permanent summer, since Trump memes drove traffic and interest in the site and its unofficial amphibian mascot. The summers are getting hotter and longer. All quality posts evaporate into a desert of the real, where wandering imbeciles ask each other if the mirages they are chasing are based and redpilled. You're the one turning the frogs gay.

>>17615375
>dude if everything was perfect everything would be perfect and we wouldn't need government
wow

>>17613628
no, it's just the normal lifespan of a generation. the average 4chan user is closer to 40 than he isn't. at this point we're a remnant population of the pre-iphone internet

>>17618964
Most of the site users are in their early 20s.

>>17613783
I think things are just getting started now that the coronascam virus shifted the entire world online. We're in uncharted territory in society and 4chan is the only active place on the clearnet where you'll find a semblance of sincerity. Honesty has its rewards. I would bet on the next 5-10 years of 4chan as being the most interesting ever imo.

>>17614368
>I was merely pretending

>>17613628
>meme war of 2016 was 4chan at its finest and most focused ever

Spengler predicted that Faustian Civilization would destroy itself through its own technology.

leaving and hanging a black rain proof gravestone out is the best `aye out.

finding no way of holding my wounds i `ound them up.for rights of men. nation and comedy wains all the way here to town. Litterally quite down. Nit depressid like`. Just bumed fir if the stock car elvis comines back up. answer to decay at the start.yet dangled in sight. but bashbauwed better than a loud radio

all together i baged `Ticket to Disneylland and 2 `stamps

/lit/ I think has vastly improved overall. It used to be slow as fuck and was filled with DFW latte politique types.
The culture certainly has set and kind of stagnated which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing. The fresh comedy that would constantly be churned out I do miss though. I agree it could be described as end of fall/beginning of winter.
The social engineering is a valid point but if you've been here a long time it's pretty obvious and it's second nature to just gloss over it. Some topics I've noticed have alert systems to shills that derail the topic from the get go which is disheartening but it's gotten too big to be under the radar of some level of that kind of control.

>>17613628
speak as someone whose been here since 2005
I'd say you are off with the times after 2003-2008. The golden age quickly turned to shit straight after, there was not summerand. All that stuff you described in the "summer" period, pure shit. Gamergate, dreadful.

4chan imo has been on a continual decline ever since it first started. Even though I came in on 2005 I still feel like I missed out.
That is as a broad overall, taking the entire site together ignores specific instances of good content and discussion. But I find those less and less frequent.

Interesting premise though OP, not a bad idea really.

>>17615006
Do you think America can transform into an autocratic empire like Rome did?

>>17613658
>I worked a good 20 minutes on this
pathetic

>>17613697
one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen

>>17615046
Shakespeare is obviously the peak of the Faustian West. People quote him daily without knowing it. People think in speech patterns established by him. His influence is ubiquitous. No other writer (or director) has matched him.

>>17619827
yeah but he wasn't real

>>17615293
you’re not pessimistic enough

>>17615537
If I were to take a wild guess, he means China.

>>17614950
Have a (You).

>>17615302
It doesn’t matter if the concept of elites always ruling over proles “feels unfair.” There are always elites in society who consolidate power and exert it on the population how they please. Societies established according to a system attempting to abolish elites merely created a shadow elite. The shadow elite holds informal power which leads to ineffective government.

>>17615429
>objective morality
>natural law
These things don’t exist

>>17619834
Yes, I’m an Oxfordian too brother