/lit/ - Literature

Bakker is the greatest fantasy writer of all time.

>Bakker is alive and posting in /sffg/
INDEED, MY HEART IS GLADDENED!

JUST GIVE US NO-GOD YOU LAZY CANANDIAN.

>catch up to cradle
>book 8 ends with yerin kissing lindon
I know the whole romance aspect of their relationship was shoved into the background instead of being made into another angsty YA romance and while I appreciate that, some build up would have been nice. Throughout the books I never got the impression that they fell in love.

Are there any non-steampunk, non-urban fantasy books that take place in a post-industrial revolution setting? I'll even take during the revolution. So analogous to about 1800-1900, let's say. Bonus points if the magic and technology coexist.

>>17602797
TRUTH SNEEDS

>>17602883
They were constantly touching each other and getting more and more comfortable doing so as they spent more time together. Also both of them especially Yerin are pretty autistic so it took them a while to realize they actually love each other. Also after Yerin fused with Ruby who was aggressively in love with Lindon, she probably picked up her lack of self restraint.

>>17602883
Did you miss Lindon’s autistic sperg out when Yerin’s lifelight gets cut in Underlord?

NEW POLL:
https://www.strawpoll.me/42672722
NEW POLL:
https://www.strawpoll.me/42672722
NEW POLL:
https://www.strawpoll.me/42672722
Please join the new consensus about the future of /sffg/.

>>17602883
how do you read every available book of that series and not get that they like each other? they blush, they agree to live together after things calm down, they travel everywhere like they're glued. some ideas were already planted in previous books, but i'd say the last one clearly focus on their relationship a lot more. Lindon even takes her on a date...

>Anarusimbor
Anasurimbor

Reminds me of how I thought it was
Meketering for ages when it's actually Mekeritrig.

AnaRUSEimbor is funny though

>>17602847
>>17602964
Apparently he'd rather explain neuropsych to autistic 15-year-olds on a Burmese teabag tasting forum than work on the manuscript he owes us.

>>17602978
wouldn't you do that for a close friend though?

>>17603017
Anon, think about where you're posting.

>>17603029
doesn't owe you anything, TUC was the original ending he envisioned all those years ago, and TNG was always something talked of as a maybe.

>>17603017
THIS ONE APOLOGISES FOR HIS SMALL PENIS

>>17603038
Kelmomas' immunity doesn't make any sense yet.

I'm sure it was going to be explained next.

>>17603065
>>17603038

>Decapitants
>Akka
>Mimara
>Esmi
>Akka Jr.
>Serwa
>Kayutas
>Crab Hand Kid
>Moenghus Jr.
>Meppa
>Kelmomas

Way too many unresolved plots. "Ending" my ass.

>>17603065
TUC spoilers

Kelmomas's immunity to what? He can see through the glamours on sorwell and btfo the white luck warrior because he ends up becoming the No god, which means he was always the no god, cause and effect and time stuff, same as the celmonian prophecy.

What comes before determines what comes after, but what comes after can also determine what comes before

>>17602955
Flintlock Fantasy

>>17603014
Shit poll.

>>17603094
most of these can be explained by die in the shadow of golgotterath lmao

>staring into the inverse fire be like

>>17603201
When did extreme-body-modification become mainstream?

>>17602797
A lot of people here have said that that Bakker is great but his characters are autistic set pieces for the philosophy shit or something to that effect.

Is that true? Is there something that's the OPPOSITE of that where the characters and story are extremely emotional and melodramatic even?

>>17603239
Both of those examples are present in Bakker.

>>17603188
That's like, just your opinion, man.

>>17603239
he writing appeals to autistic virgins with an ubermensch complex

>>17603239
I don't think that's true at all, the philosophy stuff is woven in quite well.

What would be an example of that would be ayn rands stuff, she filters brainlets because NOOOO THIS ISN'T UNREALISTIC PEOPLE DON'T TALK LIKE THIS. But it's a work of moral philosophy so that's fine, the characters are archtypes and the purpose is as much to convince and demonstrate her philosophy as to entertain.

You might as well complain that The prodigal son is lacking in character development or something

jesus christ Bakker

Second Apocalypse Major Spoiler!

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

>>17603280
this is not good writing

>>17603159
mmh almost all flintlock era is preindustrial right? granted that in fantasy/speculative setting you could make happen a earlier industrial revolution

>>17603299
You're right, it's fucking amazing.

>>17603293
Does it trouble you?

>>17603330
Yes, Google. Kellhus was a cunt though.

>>17603273
so Bakker is like Bunyan or Milton but atheists. do he want demonstrate something or just like is a thought exercise?

Thoughts?

>>17603350
he's an athiest but not a cringe one, the main thing he wants to demonstrate is his blind brain theory, which is essentially a deterministic thing

>“The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before?”

the biggest takeaway he wants you to have is you CAN'T KNOW NUFFIN DON'T BE CERTAIN

>>17603350
He's more of a radical agnostic than an atheist. He says he hopes there's a God. His main point is the "blind brain theory" of consciousness he elaborates in SA, his other books, and his blog.

>>17603350
also although he's an athiest he's not a cringe one, he hopes there is a god

>>17603369
Wait, Bakker is an atheist? Dropped. Not worth my time.

Any books where the magic system is combined with martial arts?

>>17603401
Cradle. As well as almost all Chinkshit.

>>17603094
The no-god and his unholy consult win. Deal with it.

>>17603401
Darkened Skye, if you're comfortable reading Skittles ads.

>>17602826
>>17602964

There He posted.
There He posted, his smile canny, responding directly to him.
R. Scott Bakker.
The Holy Aspect-Author of the Second Apocalypse.
Lord of /sffg/ ....
His high-IQ neuro-shitpost fairly dazzled, cast tangles of knowledge across innumerable screens, glimmered over myriad surfaces of laptop and smartphone.
Anon coughed to breathe … to sob. Hot tears flooded his cheeks.
He had been … cleansed …
Saved.
Something stepped through him—something greater than thought.
Could it be?
Could it be that all he had lost, all he had lamented … begrudged …
His shitposts... his memes … His bans … His frens …
His waifu!
Had his throttling sacrifice … his heartbreak …
Had it saved the Series?
>He spoke true …
Anon trembled as he had never trembled before.
>It is over...
The Holy Aspect-Author inclined his head to the two most OCD shills —a look that was an impossible blessing—then swept his cerulean gaze out over the entire Catalogue …
His will has been done.
The words of the Anon-That-Was-Bakker fell as warm rain, bracing even as it soothed …
“Man …”
It hummed across the mountainous nethers of the /lit/, made warm what was vast and empty …
“… would sooner weep before Me than his frens."
“He cowers beneath the No-God book that never comes …”
“To better convict his brother of pride …”
“To better beat him into submission.”

>Solves a conflict with a literal Deus Ex Machina
Wow! What a hack.

>>17603629
>Eagles
You only realized now?

>>17603095
One was prophesized, the other was not; I don't really get temporality in SA: either the soul circuit was always going to be broken or it never would've been broken and the inverse fire should always either show you or not - and you'd already knew if the No-God would triumph or fail depending on wether you saw yourself burnning. If what comes after always determined what came before, if the universe was fully deterministic, then the real ending is the Consult failing and going to hell because that is what the inverse fire shows. If this wasn't actually inevitable, then neither was Kelmomas' thing.

>>17603581
>Skittles ads
Explain. I only see a videgame.

>>17603466
>eastern
I should have expected that. Western martial arts is lacking so I should have known the inspiration will be low.

>>17603677
>the inverse fire should always either show you or not - and you'd already knew if the No-God would triumph or fail depending on whether you saw yourself burning
I think the question is whether the people looking into the inverse fire know about that property of the outside. If they aren't aware that the outside is atemporal, they might see it as a potential that can be avoided.

For the reader, the inverse fire shows that the characters whose fate is revealed will die before the No-God succeeds, not whether it succeeds.

I don't know whether souls are trapped in the world during an apocalypse, but it is possible, since it seems that some kind of connection is already severed so that no new souls can enter the world, or however that works (is it ever explained in the books?), even though the complete severing is still incomplete.

That aside I think it's more fruitful to think of Earwa as an eternalist world, as opposed to a deterministic one. I don't think the outside is deterministic, and that means no part of the universe is, but doesn't mean the future isn't certain.

>>17603848
I assume the mutilated are smart and didn't just trust inkies' wishful on why this world was going to be different. The consult could've looked into the inverse fire during the first apocalypse and seen themselves not-damned then and that would constitute proof that this time the soul circuit could be broken.

Also, the latter Yatwer chapters evidence that the beings in the outside don't actually see reality all at once as initially suggested but instead see just see possible timelines. If every soul that was ever going to be in the outside was already in the outside, gathering information on what is actually happening on the inside should be pretty straightforward.

And I think I've read somewhere that the ciphrang and gods could be starved of souls by closing the outside?

>I don't think the outside is deterministic, and that means no part of the universe is, but doesn't mean the future isn't certain.
I don't get that.

How good are the Riftwar novels? Currently reading Daughter of the Empire and it looks generic as fuck.

Love is lust made meaningful. Hope is hunger made human.

Bakker, take me awaaaay!

Any recommendations for someone obsessed with BOTNS? Already read Cage of Souls, which was pretty decent, but nothing really scratches that itch.

>>17603966
I don't know nor understand everything in the books, so I might miss or misunderstand things.

Did any consult actually die during the First Apocalypse? That would be a possible test, assuming that the No-God prevents souls from passing, which may not be the case.

>If every soul that was ever going to be in the outside was already in the outside, gathering information on what is actually happening on the inside should be pretty straightforward.
Souls are divided between the gods, and the gods do not seem to meaningfully interact with them beyond using them as food. IIRC it was Kellhus who described them as extremely delusional about their actual power and nature, so they themselves may not understand what they are seeing, because it is filtered through their powerful cognitive biases. There's no reason why they would be all knowing, and it is shown that they are not. I interpret the failure of their agents as a failure of their cognition, not as evidence that the world is not eternalist, but I could be completely wrong about that.

>I don't get that.
This video has a nice illustration of how you can picture an eternalist universe. https://youtu.be/EagNUvNfsUI?t=148 Only the first minute or so is relevant, after that it gets into the physics of why such a view of our universe makes sense.
Imagine the gods to be perceiving block time as it really is, without the illusion of a progress of time.
If the universe is not a sequence of events, but a block of all events that ever were, that we only perceive ourselves move through along an arrow of time, then it does not matter whether an event is deterministic, it can be known either way by looking at what "will happen".

>>17604081
Unironically read Bakker if you haven’t yet. There’s a reason he’s shilled here so much...

>>17603966
>And I think I've read somewhere that the ciphrang and gods could be starved of souls by closing the outside?
Forgot to reply to this: That assumes that they would somehow exhaust the souls they already have, but we are told that the suffering in the outside is not time limited, so unless they lose the ability to extract nourishment from old souls after a while, I don't think they will ever starve.

>>17604081
Book of the Long Sun?

>tfw not everyone can be saved

>>17604081
Every single Wolfe book

>>17604097
I already get eternalism, I even lean towards it (I'm ambivalent between superdeterminism, and fundamental indeterminism essentially meaning probabilities are real), that wasn't the issue.

Saying that the future might be certain without the universe being deterministic is what I'm having trouble with.

With the block universe, instants still have necessary logical links to each other. They are all equally real. Because the gods in the story don't perceive non-real "futures", we can infer they aren't actually looking at the block as a whole. At most, these gods are in a growing block universe with a real future fogged between unreal futures (the universe would be deterministic, they'd just not have all the information to compute everything that is to come) or with branching futures (indeterminism).

what am I?
tell me...
WHAT DO YOU SEE?

>>17604163
>Because the gods in the story don't perceive non-real "futures"
I meant they do perceive non-real futures.

Was the No-God an intellect without an ego?

>>17604207
I don’t see Lokung as an intellect at all, (some describe it as a p-zombie, but I believe that moniker is better suited to the sranc and skin-spies). Rather, the No-God is a technology capable of collapsing the distinction between subject and object and thus rewriting the basic laws of existence.

>>17604163
I will use "pre-determined" to refer to events in an eternalist universe, even though they are not deterministic in the sense that they are necessarily predictable based on information available "prior to them happening", but I don't know another word for this.

>Because the gods in the story perceive non-real "futures", we can infer they aren't actually looking at the block as a whole.
That can mean
a) that the event was never pre-determined to begin with, and the universe is not eternalistic
b) the gods are fallible
The gods are shown to be fallible, so I think it is not necessary to tear down eternalism in Earwa based on this.

The conception of god as an all knowing, perfect being is not one that applies to the entities referred to as gods in Earwa (or to most of the gods in our world for that matter).

>determinism
If I had the ability to perceive block time the way I perceive vision (ie, I can see what I look at, within a certain range, so long as it is not obscured), which seems to be how it roughly works for the gods, then I can "know" that you will mistype do as don't, even though I don't know anything about you and couldn't process the information required even if I had it, simply on the basis that I perceived it occurring.

>>17604207
no, that's Blindopraxia

>>17604105
Well if it's half as good as the shilling its worth a shot


>>17604137
Already did. Short Sun is pretty good (Long Sun is better tho) but I need something new

>>17604236
>p-zombie skin-spies
Doesn't the narration in the books literally make mentions of their thoughts and feelings?

>>17604248
Long and Short Sun are REALLY good, I'm glad some people read them
even if 90% of people here seems to stop at Urth for some reason

>>17604275
Yes, they have thoughts and feelings. There's even some blurb somewhere about some scholar observing sranc and finding that they have language and other things that mainstream academia thinks is the sole domain of ensouled beings, so the whole idea that you have to have a soul to be conscious, though the inability of skin spies to understand paradoxes hints at the difference, whatever it ultimately is, not merely being metaphysical, but having practical implications as well, whatever they are.

>>17604293
Well that was a shitty run on sentence without an ending, but you get what I was trying to say before my brain spazzed out.

>>17604081
Nothing comes close except other Gene Wolfe. Read Borges and Jack Vance.
Personally, I noticed some vague similaries with Engine Summer (post apocalyptic "new age", piece it together as it goes), Mask of the Sorcerer (schizophrenic inner monologue a la alzabo, mortuary rites, creation myth), Tales of Neveryona (kinda progressive S&S and extremely tame by Delany standards), Lord of Light (vague alllusive language with religious/technological implications), Viriconium (dying earth), Lafferty's short stories (also a Catholic who Wolfe admired).
Others have recc'd Piranesi (epistolary mystery with weird vibes), Gormenghast, Ted Chiang's short stories, Ice (the one by Ana Kavan).

>>17603603
It’s wild how the saga of /sffg/ over the past few months mirrors the story of the Great Ordeal. (SPOILERS FOLLOW)
>Bakkerfags forcibly seize the Thread, just like the Zaudunyani seized the Three Seas.
>The traditional, orthodox old guard rise in revolt, and a vicious flamewar ensues.
>After many weeks of brutal yet heroic campaigning, shitposting, and memeing, many more Bakkerfags have joined the Ordeal; the Sandersoys and /sf/ nerds are defeated, and the Holy War revels in its triumphs.
>Seized by the Meat of their memes, the Bakkerfags descend into madness, and their shitposting reaches levels of unhealthy obsession never before seen, shitposting without reason, murdering threads within hours. Their Father is absent, silent; and in his absence, the Sons turn to rutting butchery.
>Yet some Anons refuse to give in to the madness, still holding faith in qualityposting, praying that their Author will return someday.
>At the nadir of their madness, the Holy Author himself returns. The Anons rejoice with gladness.
>And yet, to those (like Proyas) who know more, something is still amiss....
How will this glorious and horrifying tale meet its end at last?

>>17604290
The change of pace probably annoyed some readers. I mean the entirety of Long Sun somehow seems bright and chipper compared to Severians constant angst.

>>17604293
>>17604275
I loved the part with the trick were they utterly failed to answer a question involving self-reflection and just went like a parrot throwing back words to see if something sticks, without comprehending it
Real clever way to demonstrate that a 'soul' is,,, something, and these guys don't have souls

>>17602883
Wintersteel literally has them blushing basically every time they spend time together, literally going on a date, happily promising to settle down together, has other characters bring up their relationship, the whole thing with the blood shadow, etc. Even before that they were constantly holding hands and leaning into one another. You might be more autistic than the main characters themselves if you didn't see that coming. I know this is /sffg/ but come on anon.

>>17604239
>b) the gods are fallible
They sure are, but we the way they fail informs us about the nature of the universe. Yatwer was working with one white-luck warrior and perceived this guy accomplishing it's mission as if it had already happened. Then the guy doesn't accomplish it's mission and Yatwer is already working a different angle with a different white-luck warrior. Now, Yatwer might be unaware of her own knowledge gaps and not realize there was a time when all signs pointed towards the second white-luck warrior
not being needed (because she perceived the first one being victorious) but we can't say she did not act on the new information: she did act on new information because she made a choice that only made sense if she knew the first plot was going to fail and she didn't know that when the first plot was underway. This implies there was a before and after to Yatwer, a point in time where new information became avaiable, which could not be true if Yatwer was actually unchanging, outside of time. Stuff did not actually happen all at once to Yatwer even if that is how she perceived it because then she would've paradoxically known she was going to fail at the same time she believed she was going to win and that she was making failsafes without even being able to conceive of the possibility that she could fail.

So yes, she must be very fallible, with huge blindspots. But she can't actually be perceiving a block universe all at once from a vantage point outside time, because of what I elaborated on before, even if that is what it feels like to her.

>>17604320
Thanks for the suggestions! Gormenghast was actually my obsession before Wolfe but man did Titus Alone got wierd.

>>17604340
>Yatwer is already working a different angle with a different white-luck warrior
I don't remember that happening, when was that? IIRC the other assassin wasn't related to yatwer, he was a disciple of another god and not actually on a divine mission when he tried to kill Kellhus.

>>17604334
I agree, the later books are very affectionate, rather than bleak
You can tell that Wolfe changed a bit as a person over the course of 15 years, and he put a lot of himself into them

>>17604362
The assassin was secretely related to Yatwer. He is the guy that gets fucked in the Yatwerian ritual. Remember he killed the real Ajokli assassin and impersonated him so he could get to close to Esmenet and therefore to Kelhus.

>>17604373
>Remember he killed the real Ajokli assassin and impersonated him
I don't remember that at all, apparently it's been too long since I read it. I can't comment on that aspect of the lore then.

>>17604419
>I killed a dove in the old way.
Rings a bell?

>>17604445
No...

someone post the esmi girl
so my seed can jet

>>17604448
Well, now you got something new to look forward to on your second reading.

Blood Meridian is cool so far.

Hard to track who is talking, though.

>>17604334
I'm reading Long Sun at the moment and overall I'm enjoying it more than New Sun. Silk's a great protagonist, the struggle for Viron is interesting and all the supporting cast feel well utilised

>>17604105
>There’s a reason he’s shilled here so much...
A bunch of autists shitting up a perfectly good general to make their own personal hugbox is not a good reason for anything.

>>17604495
I’m not autistic. I’m just severely OCD.

>>17604495
This. Hell I like Bakker but for fuck's sake the same three or four spergs shitting up every single thread with the same memes is just getting annoying. Go make a discord or something if you want a circlejerk.

>>17604488
Nice. As someone mentioned it is a more human story with a much more relatable protagonist. I mean Severian is basically space jesus travelling around a dying world fucking his grandma. How far have you gotten in Long?

>>17604488
>supporting cast
I found it amazingly fun he gave everyone a distinctly recognizable speech pattern, so you can tell who is saying what, simply from how it's said (written)
It also made them feel very alive and real, so easy to vividly imagine them

Silk genuinely only seeing the good in people unthawed my frozen heart

>>17604578
Half way through book 3 at the moment iirc

I think Bakker sucks!

>>17604027
Nobody?
And btw I just realized the Daughter book is from the Empire series, not Riftware. Maybe I should've started Riftwar proper.

>>17603401
The fate

>>17604807
They’re very generic.

>>17604807
From everything I've heard, the Empire series is superior. I have not read that but I did read the first two Riftwar books and found them to be rather bland.

>>17602797
Is Lord of the Rings worth reading? I tried reading it years ago, but the decretive prose and the lack of action filtered me; I tried watching the movies, but the first one bored me to death. However, I don't want to give up on a series that is so influential and popular, especially when fantasy is my favorite genre. Should I give it another chance?

>>17604890
No, Lord of the RIngs is nothing but boring and dry.

>>17604900
What about the Hobbit and the Silmarillion?

I wanna thank whoever it was that posted about Glen Cook's other series however many weeks or months ago it was. I had fun reading this. I thought there was maybe too much adventuring for a noir, but the end of the story makes it sound like the sequels stick to the main city. Can anyone confirm that before I start trying to look it up and get spoiled?

>>17604890
Not only did you get filtered by the books... But you got filtered by the movies? How?
If your attention span is so short that even the LotR films bore you, what books do you enjoy? Harry Potter?

>>17604940
>But you got filtered by the movies? How?
The plot seemed generic (I know its not since its the foundation of all modern fantasy), it was a story I'd seen a thousand times in other books. Worse, I did not care about any of the characters - Frodo and Sam? I found them boring. Boromir? I didn't even care about his struggle or downfall.
And the action scenes seemed bland, at least in the movies.
All of the lore didn't stick for me, maybe because I've been playing DnD games all my life, but it just didn't stick to me, so large swathes of the lore just felt like infodumps to me that were holding the story hostage. I suppose I just hate books that focus more on vast descriptions and worldbuilding at the expense of the pacing,
Frankly, I prefer more character driven style stories; some of my favorite stories are Berserk, A Song of Ice and Fire, and Mushoku Tensei. I enjoy stories with complex characters, rich political plotlines, and the progression of characters from zero to hero (or the inverse of hero to zero). I also enjoy Chinese cultivation novels
>Harry Potter?
I did enjoy this as a child and Percy Jackson as a child

>>17604921
The Hobbit is fine. It's written for kids, but it's head and shoulders above the shit that's squeezed out as YA (and the shit that pretends to be for adults) these days

How is Moënghus pronounced? Moe-en-gus? Angus with an M?

>>17604931
I've read it a long time ago, but from what I can remember, yes, the first one is exceptional in this regard

>>17604969
>Berserk
>ASoIaF
>some shitty isekai
Anon I hate to be the one to tell you this and I mean it as inoffensively as possible, but your issue is that your palate is incredibly underdeveloped and you consume total garbage. Tolkien's slow pace and heavy worldbuilding focus may not be to your taste and that's fair but I do feel like you haven't given LotR a genuine shot.

>>17604890
I'm sorry to gatekeep you but you're not a fantasy fan if you haven't read Lord of the Rings

>>17603339
He comes back in the next book. All according to keikaku

>>17605000
>>17605000
The ë essentially puts an emphasis on the "eh" of the e, and signals that it can't be slurred into something like moan-gus.

I would prounounce it moe-EHn-gus, with a slight uptick going into the 'eh'.

>>17604890
>Is Lord of the Rings worth reading?
It's pretty much the definitive work of the entire fantasy genre. At minimum Tolkien is to fantasy what Heinlein or Asimov are to SF or for a /v/ example what Doom is to FPS. You do not have to go autism-digging into any of the expanded lore like the Silmarillion and the stuff that was published after his death, but the main trilogy (and honestly the Hobbit for good measure) is as essential as essential gets, yes.

>Part IV of Darkness That Comes Before
>the autistic game of verbal chess between Cnaiür and Kellhus
Lads, this is exquisite.

>>17605105
he's gay

Recommend me some lesser-known fantasy stuff.

Why is Bakker wasting his time shitposting with us autists when he could be finishing his fucking series?

>>17605168
its not finished? the fuck theres like 8 700 pages books as far as i know

>>17605196
It has a ending but not the ending

>>17605129

>>17603305
Flintlock takes place in the Napoleonic era, which is in the midst of the industrial revolution

I heard that the Kindle Store versions of the New Sun novels have quality control issues like typos. Is this true, and if so, how would I circumvent the issue?

>>17605484
http://libgen.is/fiction/?q=new+sun

>>17605484
Had to check an old /lit/ thread to find the dl link.
>https://www.mediafire.com/file/p213aybe4d986t6/SCCC-GW.zip/file
Never noticed any glaring typos (and I reread it twice), maybe in Long Sun or Short Sun, can't remember, but that's not what you were asking. All were ripped from digital stores 7 or 8 years ago.
I think the zip even has Lexicon Urthus or you can get it from zlibrary.
>>17605579
>random ebooks any faggot can mess with
No.

>>17605484
You buy a book

>nautical-looking negro
lmao

>pg 219 the darkness that comes before
>"The thought made Xerius want to chortle like a imbecile."
>a imbecile
bakker a grammarlet confirmed

>>17605662
He are an ritard

>>17602797
btw fuck bakker

>>17605484
On second thought, the shitty reviews are for the omnibus edition which is fairly recent. New Sun is split in three parts in this zip (>>17605596). Shadow and Claw (books 1 and 2), Sword and Citadel (3 and 4) and Urth (5).

>>17603401
Actual Books:
Cradle
The Condor Trilogy

Chinese Webnovels:
Coiling Dragon
Desolate Era
Forty Millenniums of Cultivation
Ze Tian Shi
Against the Gods
Renegade Immortal
Pursuit of Truth

>>17605196
>>17605210
His publisher pulled out and no one will pay the man to finish because his books are "problematic"

>>17605760
Cradle is basically a chink webnovel tho

>>17605819
what does that mean?

>>17605823
That we aren't getting the final book until the political pendulum swings back towards normalcy or until you-know-who realizes there's money on the table for the taking

can anyone who doesnt have brain damage give any reason why bakker cant find an editor that will get him his last books published?

I want a book of Bakker aphorisms, poetry, and jokes. Like “Human, All Too Human.”
Even better if they’re dirty jokes.

>>17605857
It’s been explained exhaustively in prior threads. Too many “issues.” Absolutely not the right political climate. Declining sales due to the above and his books filtering most normies. Publishers are concerned exclusively with money (and tangentially, their reputations) and none of them want to touch Bak with a ten cubit pole.

That’s why he should self-publish. He has a vocal and dedicated fan base online who would be more than happy to support a comeback. Just look at these generals. I mean, Christ.

when did you know there won't be any more books in the ASOIAF series?

>>17605857
>why bakker cant find an editor that will get him his last books published
Is that an actual thing? Can I read about it somewhere?

>>17605875
you arent saying anything. give specifics or examples. do you have any links to sources?

>>17605857
It is explained concisely here >>17605837

>>17605837
>can't just crowdfund his novel banking on his popularity to finish the job
So is he just a lazy shitter or not actually as popular as you all pretend?

>>17605875
>He has a vocal and dedicated fan base online who would be more than happy to support a comeback. Just look at these generals.
You mean the hype created by a small group of mentally-ill posters who spam memes 24/7 in a general in one of the less frequented 4channel board? You're deluded if you think this will translate in massive sales for bakkerino.

>>17606088
>t. rothfuss

>>17606017
Can you give me a link to your mental illness?

>>17605875
This.

>>17605875
You also forgot to mention the fact that no one wants to own the rights for the last two books without owning the entire thing. It’s unattractive from a commercial stand point. He either self publishes or gets a tv show deal. Those would be the only realistic options.

>>17606017
Are you too retarded not to make a correlation between Bakker and the current political climate?

>>17606291
>a tv show deal
it’s rothfuss, not bakker, who will get that deal. and that says a lot about the state of things.
>self publishing
it’s the only way, also he recoups almost all sales directly rather than getting goy’d by a middleman.

>>17606116
Yes.

THE ABSOLUTE STATE

>>17606299
Oh noes the Current Political Climate™ is holding our bakkerino down! The Deep State will pay for this!
>>17606342
Trust the plan!

>>17606359
>Deep State
>Canada

>>17604495
>>17604525
I come back after a week and I see a very interesting and lengthy discussion about the nature of damnation, the Outside, souls and the Gods from Bakker's books. This is a better fantasy talk than any I've read recently.
I don't know nor understand why you people are so damn upset. This general before Bakkerposting was extremely shallow and dead. All you had were people asking "I read X what do I think about it" and the faggots posting charts. That's it. If you weren't a newfag you'd know how dead the general was even as recent as 1 year ago. Hell I remember days at a time with no new thread.

Not gonna lie, I don't give two fucks about what you discuss and/or spam here, as long as it's not Sandershit.

>>17606359
Are you just a simple idiot or are you doing this on purpose?

>>
>>17605596
>>random ebooks any faggot can mess with
>>No.
what do you mean like incomplete or modified text for whatever reasons or like hidden keyloggers/malware?

>>17606466
>he doesn't know about the Current Political Climate™ conspiracy to keep bakkerino from being published
Bluepilled af

>>17606495
>t.ESLet

>>17606495
You legit came and shit all over the thread. For what purpose?

>>17605875
>vocal and dedicated fan base online who would be more than happy to support a comeback. Just look at these generals.
don't know about other communities but a 4chan general is a bubble in a bubble, a echo chamber. does he is famous in other SF circles. It's a genuine question not trying to be polemic.

>>17606505
I'm CIA

>>17606505
Because I love Sanderson, and you people kep shiting on him.

>>17606508
>don't know about other communities but a 4chan general is a bubble in a bubble, a echo chamber
Oh yes, because literally every other online community is not.

>does he is famous in other SF circles.
Controversial people cannot be "famous" on mainstream circles.

>>17606518
>>17606518
>Oh yes, because literally every other online community is not.
Again, i was not trying to be polemic. I agree with you i was only trying to understand the numbers.

>>17606536
I know that you're not American, but just look around anywhere on the internet. People will go after you and your livelihood simply for supporting fucking Trump.

>>17606542
Bakker hates Drumpf retard

>>17606417
This desu.

>>17606550
>J. K. Rowling

Typical unidimensional brainlet analysis.

>>17606554
>interdimensional moving of the goalposts when lacking an argument
Typical schizoid mouth breather.

>>17606542
i'm not american yes, but i coonsoom many anglosphere things and i know what's happening in america and its political climate and sensibilities trough television and internet at least. on other hand i'm not the "political climate (tm) conspiracy" guy up in the thread

>>17606566
Have you read Bakker? It's just that a character like Esmenet is simply too controversial for mainstream media. Bakker is simply too risky for a publisher, it can become a liability really fast.

>>17606542
Who will?

>>17606571
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRN5rnxq3ys
>inb4
>fake-news

>>17606569
i'm virtually ignorant of all modern fantasy, admittedly. I found this guy here (and am actually interested in him) but i'm currently reading older fantasy works like just started Gormenghast (second book) and various Moorcock titles. I even just finished lotr last december lol and trying to get into Dunsany and Cabbell

>>17606562
Typical Non sequitur.

Considering that I provided you with an argument that proved you wrong, I accept your defeat based on your lack of a coherent counter argument and your ad hominem fallacies.

>>17606574
he has some very feminine eyes

>>17605823
Last books didn't sell very well.

And they needed better editing; I'm guessing Bakker prefers to be a lone maverick.

>>17606518
His fansite is dead.

>>17606569
>Bakker is simply too risky for a publisher, it can become a liability really fast.
Whatever happend to "even bad publicity is good publicity?"

>>17606569
>It's just that a character like Esmenet is simply too controversial for mainstream media.

>>17602826
Whens the 3rd series

>>17606648
> April 17, 2011

>>17606637
Is there any data on this?

>>17606640
Everyone’s here now.

>>17604612
That's great to hear. I'm in the last third of Citadel and become very bitter at humanity. I need something brighter next.

Are Warhammer novels worth it? I find the setting interesting but I don't want to sink time and money into the boardgames and shit.

>>17606736
No.

>>17606648
Comparing that dumb bitch to mommy Esmi.

>>17606406
So make your own fucking general already and leave this one to die with the people who want to talk about more than one author. I'm sure you won't exhaust all the lore speculation and be right back to autistic shitposting in a matter of hours.

>>17606779
No :)

>>17606781
>I'M JUST AS USELESS AND LAZY AS MY FAVORITE AUTHOR XD

>>17606779
No

>>17606789
>seething this hard

>>17606779
You're clearly the one who has a problem. Why should we leave, and not you? Give us some valid reasons.

>>17606779
just ignore the thread for a few weeks they'll get bored like all the other thread shitting autists on this site

>>17606832
>being this new

>>17606779
See
>>17606640
>>17606675
>His fansite is dead.
>Everyone’s here now.
Whether that's justified of not, he's an unpopular author and this are his most insane fans. Since they couldn't bear to continue posting on their dead Reddit forum they moved somewhere else where there is a semblance of life.

The meat has taken this general, desu

>>17606834
Nice projecting. Every single spammer that has shit up these generals over the years like you're doing now eventually fucked off because they killed any interest in coming here and the general dies because nobody wants to deal with your autism. You'd know this if you weren't new.

I also find it pretty funny that you're convinced that there's some significant Bakker fanbase here when this general rarely gets more than 50-60 posters on average and out of that number only like three or four of you are the ones who spam the same shitty memes every day.

>>17602955
jonathan strange and mr. norell

it's napoleonic wars into regency era

>>17602964
so nice that he defines something as itself in that first one instead of actually explaining

>>17603027
c'mon, we all know that it's actually pronounced "anal sybarite kill house"

>>17603245
the only interesting characters are sorwheel and maybe serwa. agree that the rest are unrealistic, autistic chuds

>>17603273
>philosophy stuff is woven in quite well

literally none of that describes the 7 books that i read. bakker sacrificed art in the service of his tortured/half-baked theories and the books suffered greatly because of it. would also have been nice not to read his idiosyncratic terms for various ideas that others long ago defined/explored/refuted

dude should have cut a lot from the books, probably paring both series down to duologies.

>>17606998
>Serwa
>Realistic

>>17606927
Simply not true.

>>17606927
Now we know you're new. Thanks for confirming.

>>17606927
>https://www.strawpoll.me/42645655
>https://www.strawpoll.me/42672722
Oh no no no no no no no no no no....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1UtRnGn5hc

>>17603369
as i've mentioned before, this bit from the first book was fine, but EVERYTHING else throughout the rest of the series (especially the kell jr/crabicus shit from the aspect-emperor series) wrecked the series and prevented him from writing well


>>17603372
>>17603376
idk, his very deliberate analogue of christianity (the tusk) is pretty cringey, most definitely written by a militant fedora-wearing atheist

>>17606648
she's not pov

>>17607084
I associated the tusk as much with islam as Christanity

dont think anyone has posted this yet

>>17604325
with all the autists getting bored and moving on to the next series that gives them booooners so they can splurt their disgusting black alien seed all over

Hey bakkerbros, this might be super cringe but i'm still drunk from my birthday party yesterday so i wrote a song about TSA, might record it this week if it still seems OK when I sober up.
Its about the end of the series so far and it's super spoilery.
The capitalised parts are supposed to be done in an unearthly sort of chorusy way and the line from the end of the book should spoken normaly

Second Apocalypse song maybe

So did the Great Ordeal of Anasûrimbor Kellhus perish in salt and butchery.

All hope is lost
Eternal damnation the cost
WHAT AM I
HE IS RISEN
The great ordeal is defeated
all want is conceited
there is no salvation
all that's left is devastation
Mog Pharau in his coffin

TELL ME
WHAT DO YOU SEE
WHAT IS ME

Subject as object
The end of the project
Subjective as objective
No one left skeptic
The end is at hand
Final goodbye to our land
No one left to mend
HOW I HATE
IS IT TOO LATE

TELL ME
WHAT DO YOU SEE
WHAT IS ME

At the end of the world
The tears of god whirled
Madness was hurled
Truth no longer shines
Horrors of all kinds
Sorcery's end TEKNE PREVAILS
The Anasurimbor hails
Two souls as one, body of two
IF ONLY I KNEW

TELL ME
WHAT DO YOU SEE
WHAT IS ME

any notes are appreciated and if its cringe feel free to call me a faggot.

>>17603381
He has said before that he hopes god exists so I'd rank him more as agnostic

>>17605823
it means that the only people who thought that his books were worth buying (rather than ripping off libgen) were the 5-10 autistic spergs posting on his own forum and here. unless and until he decides to change his writing, he's got a pretty low ceiling of support and no publisher is going to waste money on him.

he can keep renovating his barn, complaining about drumpf on his blog, and no one will give 2 shits. no one else is going to give him the time of day to vomit back a sff heidegger and have every single female character be some variation of an agency-less whore

>>17605881
2010. i was shocked dance was released but felt pretty sure that that's the last thing he releases during his lifetime for the main novels.

>>17607302
Oh no no no no no

>>17607193
b a s e d

>>17606088
he could self-publish, but he'd barely clear like $1k

>>17606417
No one even attempts to post sandershit anymore. They literally get downvoted.
LMAO

>>17606510
You don’t get to bring friends.
>They work for the writer. The autistic man.
BAKKER?

Threadly reminder to read Bakker. Start with The Darkness That Comes Before. The Second Apocalypse series is part of the /sffg/ canon. Not understanding Bakker memes renders you blind to most of the relevant discussion that goes on here.

Remember, any time anywhere a Sanderson fan shills for his writer, this happened.

>>17607352
How can one spammer be this based?

>>17606675
read some of werthead's blog, he's interacted with bakker many times, he's seen some of the publishers' numbers. he also closely followed the writing of the A-E series and the editing/lack thereof

>>17607344
>They literally get downvoted.
Reddikkers everyone.

>>17604488
I found Short Sun a lot better than New Sun; the first 50 kind of slow, but the rest of the first book and the entirety of the second book are great. It's the best stuff I've read from Wolfe, but since it's a direct sequel to Long Sun (and tangentially related to New Sun) it's no surprise so few people have read it. Still, they should; it's great.

>>17607360
>you midwits
what's wrong with this one?

>>17607360
Those who say this did not happen, I am so sorry, but it really happened.
>>/lit/thread/S17592581#p17595832

>>17607387
F U C K I N G
P O T T E R Y

>>17607189
the tusk was literally the christianity analogue, the islam analogue was the fanim

>>17607387
I guess we found the midwit

>>17607387

>>17607326
ahhh yes, an online poll where no one has any reason to try voting multiple times is definitely a better measure of bakker's success than his actual book sales and publishers' reactions to him.

maybe try removing that mog-pharou shaped dildo from your ass before posting next time

>>17607448
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>RIGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
>THERES NO WAY BAKKARUUU CAN BE SO POPULAR
>HE'S NOT SUCCESSFUL
>MOG-PHAROU SHAPPED DILDO
>BOOK SALES
>PUBLISHEEEERS!!

>>17607302
he got translated into like 10+ different languages, he's a midlist author.

>>17606770
Arguably, Shae is more politically incorrect than Esmi. Her cucking of the male protag is so much worse.

>>17607448
Not an argument.

>>17607448
first 3 books all sold well but sjw controversy + 4 year wait for 2nd series and splitting TUC and TGO hurt him, as well as his publisher stopping any marketing support.

>>17607489
straight up brainlet take desu

>>17607489
The thing is that Shae is dumb and has no depth whatsoever.
Everyone is forgiving of a dumb prostitute on TV.

>>17607387
I don't get it either

>>17607565
>>17607387

I sure feels like summer here.

>>17607212
record it and post it, faggot. also happy bday.

>>17607326
that poll literally gained 40+ bakker votes in the last 2 hours

>>17607565
based on the response I think it's one autist's attempt at forcing an inside joke

>>17602797
>the poll suddenly gains 200 votes in the last day and all of them are for bakker, wolfe or tolkien
what is this meaning of this

>>17607618
>>17607565
>>17607387
This is rather pathetic. How does being low IQ feel like? Seriously.

>>17607639
>>17607611
Bakker

Wolfe

Tolkien

The KINGS OF /SFFG/

>>17607212
sarcophagus would be better than coffin

>>17607193
Who is making all these Second Apocalypse memes now? The bakker chads in this thread? When I started the series three years ago nobody gave a shit about it.

>>17607193
What are fellow bakker chads predictions?

I expect a fusion of Reign in Kell - Kellhaus / Cnaiur Eternal Showdown - Aspect Emperor Crabby - Xiuhianni Deus/Diabolus Ex Machina with an outside chance of Neon Genesis Sayothi

I finally found a use for these.

>>17607797
first no-god murders the three seas, but crab hand kid finds heron spear with help of moe jr in the scylvendi mounds. then zeüm and eänna invade simultaneously and war over the scraps. then the progenitors arrive and btfo everything. solitary god awakens and presses reset on the simulation. kellhus and achamian wake up at the beginning of book 1, in ishuäl and atyersus respectively, with very strange dreams in their heads.

>>17606957
t. midwit

do you just not know what a heuristic is lmao?

>>17604890
>>17605036

>>17607828
You're trying far too hard to fit in. Don't worry about replying to me. Any reply, much like your post itself, will go largely ignored.

>>17607828
Kek

How did you find any use for that trash?

>>17608005
>Being this triggered

lmao

>>17607326
Oh shit. I guess I'll have to cast a few more votes on my boy.

>>17607326
Why is the Mormon so low?

>>17605760
don't forget Dragon Heart

>>17608143
>don't forget Dragon Heart
is shit

>>17605760
What about i shall seal the heavens?

Is there a hard sci-fi author that can even touch, let alone defeat, Greg Egan?

>>17608169
it's not bad

>>17607859
heron spear is a red herring desu, it's probably out of charge and the sarcophagus has no chorae

>>17608208
never read it but it seems painfully generic

>>17608193
>hard sci-fi

>>17608257
What sci-fi do non-soys read then?

>>17608318
space trilogy

>>17608318
Shit that isn't hard.
Hard scifi is for autistic cucks who want "real science" when they are reading a fucking fiction book.
They are the type of people that get triggered when someone gets raped in a book because "rape doesn't happen in real life, it shouldn't be in books"

>>17608257
>making this post

>>17603641
Thought it was a one timer, tbf. Never thought he'd be so obvious as to make god himself to save the day.

>>17608403
>when you realize deus ex machina is the only way tolkien knows how to
resolve his plots
>it happens in every age from the silmarillion through the war of the ring
>when you know his flaws as a writer but still love his work and accept that he is the greatest fantasy writer of all time

>>17608428
when you believe in god and god exists in your worlds, you'd kind of expect a few "deus ex machinas"

>>17608428
>deus ex machina

What is this? I'm an ESL that doesn't really play video games.

I'm being 100% honest.

>>17608362
>They are the type of people that get triggered when someone gets raped in a book because "rape doesn't happen in real life, it shouldn't be in books"

What a random stereotype.

Anyway hard sci-fi just means that it's grounded in the laws of physics and mathematics but these can be streched so far to the point that it beats any fiction.

Holy shit, Lovecraft's stone-faced, indifferent racism is absolutely hilarious.

>>17608443
convinient asspull solution to plot problem

>is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence

comes from greek theatre where a god would randomly come down and solve all the problems

>>17608443
>thinking DEM comes from vidya
>constantly demanding to be explained basic concepts that everyone else understands
ESLs are cancer and should be forced to pass a threshhold of basic knowledge before being allowed to post
cute kot though

>>17604081

Try Proust. The way Severian recalls his memory and narration reminds me a lot of the main character of In Search of Lost Time

Where should I begin with LeGuin?

>>17608476
I'm not even sure that the term "Deus ex machina" is even common place in English. Is this used in the literary/philosophical world?

>>17608469
Thanks fren. Can you give me some examples of this in popular media?

>>17608493
earthsea series for her fantasy
left hand of darkness for her sf

>>17608497
it’s common to anyone who knows anything about literature. like the other anon said it comes from greek theater. i learned about it in school when i was 10 or 11. maybe your country’s education system is just subpar. or maybe you’re just ignant

>>17608362
Please never come to /lit/ again.

>>17608503
>gibs me more examples
>teach me things anon-kun
>doesn’t bother to do his own research
god you’re insufferable

>>17608525
Why? When you're doing it for free?

>>17608516
In which genre does she excel?

>>17607828
No book should ever be vandalized. You are the lowest scum.

>>17608525
>god you’re insufferable

I feel sorry for you. The anon is asking a genuine question and not being obnoxious, and yet you go out of your way to shit-post because you're the one who's an insufferable cunt.

I hope that the Bakker/Sanderson shit posting never ends, because it's precisely to trigger people like you.

>>17608549
>No book should ever be vandalized.

>>17607859
The heron spear is not important. It's a simple weapon. It's like some caveman finding a shotgun somewhere and there will be oral tales about his magic stick of thunder.

>>17608549
How is that vandalism? We all need toilet paper. Blame the corona.

>>17608503
it only counts if it hasn't been foreshadowed, actual examples can be hard to find and some that people say are aren't, but look at the end of HP1 for example where dumbledore gives friffindor a gazillion points

>>17608559
Fucking smug cat what the hell do you want?

>>17608476
ESL are superior by default. Even if their English capabilities give them 70% comprehension and only decent production, they're still several levels above an EOP in their worth.

>>17608257
if you are after progression/cultivation novels then read it, it is definitely above mediocre

>>17608584
This.

>>17608565
it's a pretty effective simple weapon though, it almost killed kellhus

>>17608503
Malazan Book of the Fallen, this is the primary purpose of the Houses of the Azath, especially when one first appears in Gardens of the Moon out of nowhere and basically freezes the novel's conflict in its tracks. In addition, the Trygalle Trade Guild in Deadhouse Gates and the army of Bridgeburner ghosts in House of Chains.

also like the whole of the sword of truth series where he will randomly get access to his magic powers at the climax of each book to solve the problem

Is Sando Deux Ex Machina as well?

>>17608599
the "characters say another radiant vow when they are out of stormlight and need a powerup" isn't technically one, since it's known that they could do it, but it's kind of bad writing and asspully

>>17608517
I was here b4 you faggot. Why don't you an hero and scram?

>>17604921
>Hobbit
Lighter, more fun than LOTR
>Silmarillion
Dryer still than LOTR, but very good if you can get over some stodginess and the constant need to check the family trees to figure out if this is an elf from 200 pages ago coming back (1000 years has passed but they're immortal so) or a descendent with one letter different in his name. Almost recommend reading it as a selection of short stories. Beren and Luthien is good. Turin Turambar is good. Tuor is good. Oh, they're related? So?

>>17608503
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExMachina

>>17608698

>>17608698

>>17608698

>>17608698

>>17608698

>>17608549
All books should be vandalized.

>>17606088
No self respecting author self publishes. Disgusting.
>>17606512
>Kep
>Shiting