/lit/ - Literature

Old atheism is still enough to nullify creators, souls and afterlife

>>17585279
Got destroyed by the god believers.

>>17585279
Did it though? Most people are abandoning religion

>>17585324
not giving a fuck about religion and autistically rambling on against it is not the same tho

>>17585279
New Atheism was a reaction to the influence of Evangelical Christians in government in the early 2000s and such it was a movement specific to that time period (early 2000s - early 2010s). It should be no surprise that the movement declined in the Obama years.

>>17585279
You tell me.

>>17585324
Are they though? Idk how it was in the past but I see a lot more threads on religion and spirituality compared to two years ago

>>17585388
That's just residue from GamerGate/election invasion. It goes
>apolitical > edgy libertarian > conservative > nazi > tradcath > muslim
They all follow this pattern and are essentially NPCs

>>17585404
Lol no. The threads on left-hand path tantra, hermeticism and neoplatonism proves otherwise

>>17585312
Clearly not.

>>17585377
>correlation/causation failure

I think because it didn't offer much of a solution. It was just an end statement. People generally hang on to something that can promise them something in return.

>>17585279
people woke up and realized they still want a tradcath mommy

>>17585413
Cop-out.

>>17585371
The new atheist movement was co-opted by anti SJW rhetoric which then got co-opted by gamergate which got co-opted by /pol/ which was co-opted by Qanon which won the white house.

>>17585279
because a dogmatic renunciation of dogma isn't a compelling argument

>>17585279
It didn’t. It became mainstream

>>17585424
What about RationalWiki? They loved new atheism and are now woke socialists.

>>17585435
What? I thought that was the nazi wikipedia

>>17585437
Nevermind that was metapedia

because God is real, obviously

>Thucydides predicted that future generations would underestimate the power of Sparta. It built no great temples, left no magnificent ruins. Absent any tangible signs of the sway it once held, memories of its past importance would sound like ridiculous exaggerations.

>This is how I feel about New Atheism.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/30/new-atheism-the-godlessness-that-failed/

>>17585431
Only in America

>>17585419
Oppressive capitalism does make people suicidal. Their lack of Jesus probably isn’t why they offed themselves

>>17585279
It is interesting to me. Outside of China, which blatantly uses force to suppress religion, I see that religion is overtaking atheism. The biggest example of this is Europe, which is on track to become majority Muslim within the 21st or 22nd century, reversing the rise of atheism within that continent. Personally, I think it's because religious societies are more "fit in evolutionary terms". They have higher birthrates, better family/social cohesion etc. Atheist societies who don't use force and suppression simply can't "compete".

>>17585279
It never existed in the first place; its just a boogeyman for Christ LARPers

>>17585279
It didn't fail. It more or less succeeded. At which point, there was no reason to keep kicking a dead horse. The people involved either sank into obscurity or went off to do other things

>>17585279
aesthetics

>>17585312
lol years ago I remember hearing about this guy all the time on the The Drunken Peasants podcast. What a blast from the past.

>>17585279
Every culture has an atheist movement when it’s dying. For India it was buddhism

>>17585413
>correlation/causation failure
I think you mean
>correlation/causation truth
nice try bugbrain, better luck next time

>>17585279
It didn't. It was quite successful in getting a lot of people to leave Christianity. Particularly the United States. Europe was already thoroughly secularized following WW2.

>>17585377
What's your point? If your life sucks and you don't believe you are going to be tortured for eternity if you kill yourself then you will more likely kill yourself. Euthanasia should be legal anyways. In a sense as >>17585371 said New Atheism arose to combat the dogmatisim of low IQ fundamentalists and their opposition to reasonable things like euthanasia.

>>17585416
This is wrong, New Atheism was about getting people to leave religion and conservatism by proxy. In that regard it was successful.

>>17585478
If you mean religion in the general sociological sense then yes religion will live on. But if you mean traditional religions like Judaism, Islam and Christianity, and particularly Christianity. Then it is on it's way out. Christianity has just retreated further and further.

> The biggest example of this is Europe, which is on track to become majority Muslim within the 21st or 22nd century
You are clueless. 75% of Muslims in Europe leave their religion.

> Personally, I think it's because religious societies are more "fit in evolutionary terms". They have higher birthrates, better family/social cohesion etc
Generalized it's true but a lot of communist societies had positive birth rates like Albania.

>>17585279
It never had a goal other than shit-flinging, so it was set up to fail.

>>17585478
>The biggest example of this is Europe, which is on track to become majority Muslim within the 21st or 22nd century, reversing the rise of atheism within that continent.
You are completely delusional

>>17585279
Shitting on Christianity while having a Christian morality was a self own.

THING BAD movements generally fall out of style

>>17585279
hitchens died

>>17585598
No, I mean >>17585468
cope.

>>17585658
This

>>17585674
This. He was the only one who was actually cool

>>17585279
they became trannies

It succeeded wildly, actually. No one takes religion seriously. Try standing up during a biology lecture and argue for intelligent design.

>>17585696
Rent free

>>17585715
Next stop: Dilation Station

>>17585478
Won't happen plus muslim birthrate are dwindling. Ethnic Turks, Iranians, Bangladeshi are already below replacement rates and it's a matter of time before the rest of muslim countries follows.

>>17585782
i hope so

>>17585544
This

>>17585324
Nah theres a ressurgence in religion. And not just tradcath zoomer larp shit

>>17585782
Moreover birthrate are much less related to religious views than people generally expect and much more to economic and sociological conditions. People moving to cities and getting in education is what really tank birthrates. All those hijabi girls learning chemistry or computer science won't settle to have 6 kids and stay at home like their grandma did. Indeed they precisely study to avoid that.

>>17585566
used to be a good time. I stopped listening around the time they had the fake fight with Billy and Paul.

>>17585324
Atheism is the fastest shrinking religion in the world because they refuse to have kids and kill themselves in absurd numbers.

>>17585279
you can't build on lack of something

>>17585854
> atheism is a religion
Why do Christians think this is an own? Is it your way of saying "yes we are retarded but so are you"?

>>17585825
Where? We're talking specifically in Europe and European majority countries.

>>17585883
it's a cope.

Just a reminder that all religious stats are bunk. They stamp your birth certificate with a religion before you've sucked a nipple. On paper, I'm a Roman Catholic, but it doesn't mean a thing.

>>17585700
That's probably one of the worst sides of New Atheism which really was a disguise for progressivism. Science and history are tentative by nature and to defend them dogmatically is falling into the same trap that Christians did with their beliefs.

>>17585454
Interesting.

>>17585911
>That's probably one of the worst sides of New Atheism
What's that, getting Creationism out of classrooms? Lol.

>>17585854
>atheism
>religion

>>17585909
Where are you from?

I should also say that there are people out there who identify as Christian or Muslim yet are practically atheist. If you meet these people they will have a strong sense of identity in their religion but they neither pray, go to church/mosque, know anything about their religion and never think about God (I mean the thought never enters their mind and they don't care about any kind of religious debate or talk). These people are more atheist than the likes of Christopher Hitchens who would be better described as a misotheist than an atheist.

Atheism is literally the dumbest thing on the planet.

>>17585927
Canada. The kicker is my parents aren't even religious. It's tradition, you see. Everyone in my family has their birth certificate stamped Roman Catholic. None of us have ever been to Church, said a prayer, or discussed anything resembling spirituality. It's tradition, and nothing else.

>>17585915
See what I mean, this is dogmatism. You are so sure of yourself about something (ID) and yet you are so wrong and conflate it with young Earth creationism. Most ID proponents are all evolutionists. The rest are old earth creationists.

>>17585937
Are you ethnic? Your family perfectly describes what I mean. Do your family members identify as RC when asked and hold the Vatican in some sort of regard?

>>17585938
Dogma does not mean facts. Dogma means beliefs. Something that seems to be a fact. Things like the age of the planet are not up for debate.

>>17585948
They're Italian, I don't think if that qualifies as ethnic or not. I was the first member of my family born in Canada.
>Do your family members identify as RC when asked and hold the Vatican in some sort of regard?
Yup. Like I say, it's all tradition. They see being Catholic as no different from being Italian, but like being Italian, it doesn't actually entail acting differently. It's just something stamped on your birth certificate, allowing for tribalists to claim you as one of your own.

>>17585953
> Things like the age of the planet are not up for debate.
This is dogmatism. I am pretty confident the Earth is very old but we should be open to revising it. Instead the academy is full of shitlibs so they have this knee jerk reaction to anything they feel will give ammunition to conservatives (a young Earth is vindication of the Bible). This entire debate is dressed up as a religious one but it's ultimately political. This frustrates me because Christianity is untenable on so many other grounds (I am not saying evolution is not a defeater for belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible) so it's kind of frustrating that people shut themselves off to other ideas because they are engaged in this battle for "BASEDCIENE"(TM). This is like modern conservatives in the US who still think we're in the Cold War and stimulus payments for COVID are communism.

>>17585981
>(a young Earth is vindication of the Bible)
It's also bullshit. I'll give you an example of something widely agreed upon by science (not a fact in this case, but a theory) but happens to massively support the Abrahamic linear cosmology: The Big Bang. No one is trying to take that away from Christians, even though it flies in the face of Dharmic religions. Quite frankly I think you're injecting a lot of tribalism where it doesn't exist. We have to accept that some things are simply facts. As someone using a computer and the internet, things that would not be possible without the scientific method and establishing of facts, it would be willfully obtuse to think otherwise.

>>17585969
Anglos call all non British people in Anglosphere countries ethnic.

> Yup. Like I say, it's all tradition. They see being Catholic as no different from being Italian, but like being Italian, it doesn't actually entail acting differently. It's just something stamped on your birth certificate, allowing for tribalists to claim you as one of your own.
Exactly what I have observed.

>>17586007
The Big Bang does not support the Bible.

https://creation.com/can-christians-add-big-bang-to-bible

> Quite frankly I think you're injecting a lot of tribalism where it doesn't exist. We have to accept that some things are simply facts
Nope, nope. I realize the limitations of human knowledge and inquiry. But I sense that a lot of people in the academy are super biased and politically charged to the point that it interferes in their research, and there is the fear that publishing research that contradictions mainstream consensus is aiding the "enemy" (i.e. right wingers, conservatives, religious fundamentalists).

> As someone using a computer and the internet, things that would not be possible without the scientific method and establishing of facts, it would be willfully obtuse to think otherwise.
I agree totally. But that's in the realm of electronics and engineering. Cosmology and geology (especially the former) are packed with a lot of assumptions, and cosmology doesn't follow the scientific method in the way say chemistry does.

>>17586050
>But I sense that a lot of people in the academy are super biased and politically charged to the point that it interferes in their research
I'm sure this is the case, but I doubt it's so widespread as to cause the sort of scientific skepticism that permeates this board. No, I have to have faith that science in the grand scheme will arrive at the correct answer, because it has done remarkably well thus far.
>Cosmology and geology (especially the former) are packed with a lot of assumptions, and cosmology doesn't follow the scientific method in the way say chemistry does.
This is true. Some subjects involve far more guesswork than others, those subjects that require peering into the past. Plat tectonics is almost certainly true, but it will remain a theory, the same way music will remain a theory.

To be honest I don't even think we're arguing. It's been nice to talk to you.

It was stupid from the start.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2010/05/believe-it-or-not

>>17585922
>>17585883
>>17585897
If it wasn't an own it wouldn't cause such levels of seething.
>NOOOOOOOOOOO it's a lack of belief!
Wrong. That's describing agnosticism, belief in there not being a God (atheism) is functionally no different to belief in there being a God (theism).
Remember, you don't need to believe in God to be religious (see some forms of Buddhism).

>>17586176
>belief in there not being a God (atheism) is functionally no different to belief in there being a God (theism).
hate to be the food analogy guy but this is like saying eating a pizza is the same as not eating a pizza

>>17585418
I want her to breastfeed me

>>17585418
LIZZZY

>>17586218
terrible example, more like people talking about ordering pizza at a party, but the pizza is never going to arrive until everyone's gone home.

Functionally, during the party, your position for or against pizza doesn't change the party beyond how you act. For example, being an asshole because you want everyone to know the pizza would have sucked anyway

I never got the point of atheist that are outspoken. A religious person believes they are helping you or doing the work of their deity(ies). It makes total sense why they preach and push their beliefs. An atheist who spends all their time fighting religious people when they have such strong faith in there being no God or spirituality just come off as spiteful and petty. If your so enlightened why are you wasting what little time you have bothering others when you could be improving the world like you always bitch about? It comes off more as a hate boner for specific religions or a resentment of the idea of a greater entity being inherently better than you and having ultimate mastery over you. If it's such an enlightened movement you'd think atheists would be more useful.

>>17586246
yes but you thinking about pizza does not mean you are part of a pizza religion

>>17586247
>If it's such an enlightened movement you'd think atheists would be more useful.
Many of the best artists and scientists, as well as some of the wealthiest individuals, have been atheist/agnostic. Otherwise I agree with you, I think atheists who focus too much of their time trying to "convert" others are pathetic.

>>17586247
I only ever started being vocal against religious people when they started infesting all the boards on 4chan. If you've been here as long as I have you'd know just how anti-4chan such a thing is. I just want a religion/philosophy board so you guys can be with your own.

>>17586247
That's some stupid argument there and I'm not even atheist. If atheist think religion is a scam it's perfectly understandable they want to tell people "it's a scam don't go for it".

>>17585279
the fedora meme single handedly killed it

>>17586265
This. It's about calling out charlatans. This is one of the only places on the net where everyone is a fair target. I shit on Muslims just as hard as I shit on Christians just as hard as I shit on snake oil diets.

>>17586265
They don't even do that though for the most part. Internet atheists just seem to want to throw ad hominem attacks at religious people and seem to make little to no effort to convince anyone of anything. Go debate a priest or a Rabbi or an Imam or a Yogi or a Shaman or a Monk or any of the many other religious professionals if you want to convince people. Just calling them christcucks isn't doing anything but making a fool of yourself.

>>17586296
Don't act like the religious people on here are any better.

>>17586251
Obviously. Any example where a group is discussing a proposition that can't be verified is relevant. It doesn't need to be about a religion to be useful. A group discussing the colour of a rubber ball inside a box, a group discussing whether it's cloudy outside while they're in a basement. It's all relevant in purely epistemological terms.

>>17586345
In that case you shouldn't phrase it as "atheism is a religion" because that's silly and just going to lead to other people giving you more food analogies. Otherwise I agree with you.

>>17586247
Why debate anything at all? What does it matter if you are scientific realist or antirealist? Or if you're a Keynesian or Austrian? It's all just debates on a Vietnamese fisherman's forum.

There's also a problem with Christians (I hate talking about religious people in the abstract let's be specific) pushing against social and even economic reform that is considered stifling. I am not a progressive but an atheist might argue it's religious dogmatism which denies the gay people the right to get married (I am personally opposed to this). But Christian belief is also a barrier to a lot of reasonable things like abortion, euthanasia, and drug legalization.

>>17586176
> reply to wrong statement
> YOU'RE SEETHING HAHAHA GOT'EM

>>17586368
Agreed. It just reeks of a lack of confidence.

> Well, yeah I mean I follow a book that contains crazy and unrealistic stories and I go to a place where other people who think like me and we get together to worship the author of the book who lives high, high in the sky, but you are no different than me

>>17585279
because its trying to turn whats basically nihilism into a religious movement.
its literally a religious movement.
and it was astroturfed hard which is where all its real momentum came from

>>17586368
>you shouldn't phrase it as "atheism is a religion"
>>17586393
>Agreed. It just reeks of a lack of confidence.

Never did, I came into the thread later

>>17585700
>Try standing up during a biology lecture and argue for intelligent design.

>>17585279
From my perspective as an atheist, it was because 1. you can only point out one claim being unjustified so many times before it starts to gets old. You swallow the pill so to speak and then you move on. It's kind of like someone pontificating about Santa not existing. Understandably if people based their morality and legislation on precepts from stories of Santa, we'd care more, but Christianity has chilled out over the years. Which is 2. Christians are getting less and less fundamentalist. They're starting to believe neutered down less literal versions of Christianity. 3. In terms of political advocacy, atheist advocacy gives you the least bang for your buck. You made everyone atheist. Good job. Do people have healthcare? What's the tax rate? What's rent like? Wages? Better to focus on bread and butter shit than waste your time on converting people religiously.

>>17586531

as i grow older i see the purpose of religion

>>17586556
>>>/reddit/

>>17586570
I grew older, understand the purpose and the need to eradicate it.

>>17586531
Go on. Try it, blowjacker

>>17586598
>eradicate it.
its a youthful idea to control things

>>17586263
What a larp. If you've been here for so long you'd know that 4chan always contests the predominant paradigm. We're all naturally contrarian. 4chan epitomizes contrarianism. Rampant cases of decadence, nihilism and irreligiosity has only starting manifesting itself in the west for a decade or two. Sure, faith had been lost centuries ago, but relative to the last couple of years, it doesn't come close. People were still firmly religious in the west during the early 2000s. Look at the common trends regarding /lit/'s top 100 books. In the beginning authors like Dostoyevsky and Dante weren't as high up as they are now. Your average normalfaggot will just claim to be an atheist without putting much thought into the implications and possible ontological ramifications. Look, I'm not a christcuck, but 4chan's stance on religion has shifted in correspondence to the paradigmatic incessance of atheism.

>>17586598
>Go on. Try it, blowjacker
Why would I do such a thing? Buttercunt?

>>17585279
There really is something infinitely funny in how atheism fell out of favour simply because the vocal majority of its propagators were so cringe inducing

>>17586614
I liked the Marvel character Dr Doom once when I was young, but now I want to set people free. That’ll do it

>>17586373
So you only are an atheist because you don't agree with the moral stance of one religion?

>>17586531
Exactly, some bugman who looks like that would lambast you for it

>>17586627
This

>>17586598
I was the guy rebutting the fag who said atheism is a religion but there are secular religions out there, take progressivism for example.

>>17586643
No because the Bible is untrue and Godtalk is largely meaningless. I am right wing and agree with a lot of the Bible's ethical teachings and wisdom which is ironic since most Bible believing church going Christians don't.

>>17586641
Dr Doom was good for Latveria

>>17586598
reddit moment
please, enlighten us about what you think is the purpose of religion, and why we need to eradicate it

>>17586639
It didn’t fall out of favour it seeped into the mainstream. The only places religions grow are in poor countries

>>17586669
> poor countries
Mostly low IQ ones.

>>17586675
Also religious stats are bunk because of stamping birth certificates and also because in Muslim countries you aren’t even allowed to leave the faith. How could you possibly gauge Muslim religiosity? You can’t. They’ll say they have 2 billion, but do they really?

>>17585279
They got shut down and demoralized by 4chin memeing the fedora users hard, more or less like the onions consumes of today

>>17586685
*consumers

>>17586637
You implied what with that pic? That you’re just scared or that that poster looks like that? w/e

>>17586648
Political ideology is just belief based. Some hunker down into a mindset. Progressivism is just a reformist liberalism. Spooked, but no worse than any other stripe of liberalism.

>>17586665
It isn’t a proper frame of mind for people.
What country you from?

>>17586598
>eradicate it
>*gets outbred before killing himself*
Do atheists really?

>>17586695
You've been on 4chan long enough to know the implication you larping dyke. I don't know why I get myself worked up when you post your pithy little rhetorical statements. /lit/ wouldn't be /lit/ without our atheistic, liberalistic, highly opinionated, aphoristic tripfag, butterfly. Now fuck off into a philosophy thread and post your big three.

>>17586695
religion is not a frame of mind? how is is an organized body of philosophies, customs and beliefs, amongst other elements be equal to "muh wrong mind fee-fees" ? that's just comparing apples and oranges. also,
>What country you from?
I thought you were an anarkid. Don't you believe borders and countries don't matter?

>>17585279
It’s boug, and 2008 happened

>>17586720
Then your post >>17586637 makes no sense
>liberalistic
And you know I’m not a liberal.

>>17586723
>[R]eligion is not a frame of mind?
It is.
> "muh wrong mind fee-fees"
Frame of mind isn’t fee-fees
>Dodges the question
So a USAian. Your thoughts on the capital hill protest/guided tour?

>>17585279
optics

>>17586756
>And you know I’m not a liberal.
ok tranny

>>17586756
>And you know I’m not a liberal.
>anarkid
o i am laffin
>It is.
Explain. Hopefully you have a solid foundation of axioms and sources on which you base this idea. If I were Christian, I could point to the Bible, or the Church Fathers, or if Hindu, I could point to the smriti and shruti, and et cetera. Where are your axioms, tranny? An please don't say Marx...
>So a USAian. Your thoughts on the capital hill protest/guided tour?
Shouldn't matter if I'm from America or Timbuctoo. Also the Capitol raid was based. When will we see the left do anything other than cup the Democrats' collective balls in their mouths?

>>17586796
>Shouldn't matter if I'm from America or Timbuctoo
Not disqualifying you from anything, just asking you a simple question. We’re supposed to be all interested in freedom, and indeed our founding fighters, the common folk and their children and grandchildren really were, but a successive wave of enslavement kept after them like an ocean wave that laps to Kansas. One of the shackles they put on them was old time religion.

The raid was all guts and foolishness. The left has been protesting awful trade deals for over twenty years, but were squelched after OWS. We’re still here though. Still hate the Democrats

>>17585279
It didn't? Only larpers left alive

>>17585388
In the general population of western countries, yes, atheism is increasing. A few autists on /lit/ doesn't prove much.

>>17585883
Because if someone genuinely doesn’t believe in God, they shouldn’t give a shit about someone who does. I don’t believe skinny jeans are a good fashion choice but I don’t give two shits if people wear them

>>17586896
Well those who wear skinny jeans don't want you to wear them or else you'll burn in hell

>>17586859
you seemed to have escaped from the main topic of religion. do you really have no response, or is this just pilpul?
>We’re supposed to be all interested in freedom
Is-ought fallacy. Personally, I lean toward the reactionary, and believe that freedom is completely negotiable vis-à-vis social stability, amongst other ideals
>One of the shackles they put on them was old time religion.
as opposed to the new-age civil religion, whose highest god is Mammon? no thanks
>The raid was all guts and foolishness
To paraphrase Bosquet, c'était magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la revolution.

I believe there was a large culture war based split that occurred in the Atheism community called elevator gate. It was a precursor to Gamergate in many ways, and without passing judgment on who was in the right, the result was the movement became inward looking and more obsessed with schismatic conflict than opposing the "fundies" or whatever.

>>17585312
stop attacking my family indivijul situation

>>17585700
>Standing up during a biology lecture
Nobody should do that because its just rude, but I'd gladly debate intelligent design with the professor after or even the class if they wanna be that way.

>>17586935
>reactionary
So you’re a traitor to the national ideal.
>civil religion
They sponsored the revivalist movements to keep the masses obedient and docile. Educated and secular folk were too ornery. The civil religion took the lead, but they kept the traditional faith flame stoked.

People who were damningly anti-philosophy helmed a philosophical movement and had next to none of the tools to do so. There’s no coincidence that Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins regularly debate southern Americans who can barely read.

>>17586987
>the national ideal
spooky. Westphalia/1776/89 was a mistake. And whose national ideal? American? French? Congolese?
you still haven't put forward your axioms and sources for why religion is merely a frame of mind and should be eradicated, and have pilpulled yourself into a completely different debate. not bad for a tranny

>>17586959
no

>>17587020
No real intellectual is going to participatein, let alone acknowledge a debate like the ones Bill Nye has.

Christianity failed, consequently its opposition became obsolete. Now the primary opposition is against Islam, it does have traces of New Atheism but they don't coalitioned with cultural Christians and Jews and so are less interested in theology and more just focus on cultural issues

>>17587028
Of freedom. It turned out to be just a marketing ploy to get the people to fight a war of independence. But you’re not a part of all that. You side with the exploiters, of course.

>>17585279
Fedora meme. People thought they were cool and edgy because they were atheists. Mockery made most of them quit.

>>17585324
Nah people just devote themselves to other stuff, it will never be truly abandoned.

>>17585651
It might be hyperbole but Muslims will become a large proportion of Western European populations within the next few decades, with high birthrates, high rate of migration into Europe, and a strong in-group preference I don't really see how he's wrong.
You think once they hit 10 percent of the population they'll just migrate home or what?

>>17585279
atheism+ was a classic example of a group busting subversion operation. Whether or not it was orchestrated by some group or faction (my money's on it just happened), it still resembled such an op

>>17585279
The atheism movement turned into the alt-right movement, which now evolved to the leftist/socialist movement, it failed because the people who inhabit it are grifters looking for some sort of meaning in life, but they will never be able to satisfy that empty hole in their hearts.

Atheism succeeded in abolishing religion and the religious class, priests, monks and so on. But what for? Sure these people lost their power. But the result was that others, who competed with these religious people, gained power. Western societies became less equitable and less livable because of atheism.

>>17585837
>All those hijabi girls learning chemistry or computer science
But where though?

>>17585312
You misspelled gord believers you water-headed idiot

>>17585279
>Why did the New Atheism movement fail?
they didn't go all the way

>>17585782
>Iranians
There above replacement rate. There birth rates have gone up over the last 15 years. Look it up if you don't believe me

>>17587970
Yes but factor out Sunnis and you see a different story. Sunni reproduction is much higher than Shia and the state has said this is a serious concern

>>17587970
They're barely over 2,1 while they were at nearly 7 just 40 years ago and mind you they're a theocracy. Same thing for Saudi Arabia that went to 7,3 to 2,3, UAE that went to 7 to 1,4 and so on. All muslims countries are heading the same direction.

religion is mental/political software. it allows you to bring people to the point of fervor and then order them around, there's really no more effective coalition. this is not a normative statement, I don't "wish" for things to be like this. I'm simply saying that you need your constituents to operate on this intensive level, you want them to have the ability to inflict violence, you want them die for you

there's no solution to this. a more fanatic group will always overtake you

>>17585478
Christianity is dead and won't ever come back, in fact it is only possible for Christianity to resurrect if it dies
the world is stuck in a limbo and that's why Christianity can't resurrect

>>17587564
you may cope, but anyone. at least in western Europe, with a degree and a job doesn't give a fuck about religion. it is dead.

>>17587935
This. They ignored the most vital aspect of the transvaluation movement: embracing the joy of destruction.

>>17585279
It didn't fail. The number of atheists is still steadily increasing. You're just projecting your shitty zoomie tradcath circlejerk onto everyone else.

>>17585279
>Why did the New Atheism movement fail?

Mostly from having very little creed besides hiding behind the skirt of science when science has nothing to say on matters religious and spiritual.

>>17585279
it absolutely incoherent

>>17586176
It’s not a religion, it’s a belief. If all beliefs are religions, then I suppose believing that the world is round must also be a religion.

>>17588544
the peripatetic axiom is a religious believe

>barely any religion discussions outside of one or two regular threads full of diverse opinions for weeks straight
>suddenly, 20 fucking christcuck threads in a day
>all filled to the brim with the same basic bitch /pol/ shit about morals and spirituality
>all with garbage sub 0.5 post/poster ratios
Haha, fellow /lit/ connoisseurs, wouldn't it be just epic if we all pwned those jews and trannies by turning christian?

>>17586176
Holy shit. It's not even Jordan Peterson anymore. We're literally back to the fox news evangelist-tier sophistry at this point.

>>17587553
>still hasn't put forward a single argument on the disposability of religion
>Using wishy-washy terms like "exploiters"
Why are tranny leftoids like this? Next you'll call me "fashist', is it not?

>>17588584
nice porn stache, Al!

>>17585623
>In a sense as >>17585371# said New Atheism arose to combat the dogmatisim of low IQ fundamentalists and their opposition to reasonable things like euthanasia.
so the same thing since 1789

>>17587929
anywhere in asia

>>17587929
Countries like Indonesia. Look no further if you want to see what a predominantly moderate muslim state looks like. It's actually surprisingly decent albeit still a little authoritarian.
It is very unfortunate that Europe has to deal mostly with overzealous freaks from the middle east and even those are slowly integrating themselves.
It is not even about the culture or specifics of each religion, it's about conveniences of the modern society being too tempting for the younger generations.

>>17588766
>indonesia
>moderate

>>17588905
It is. There is no Sharia Law. Women and men are free to do whatever they want and believe whatever they want. They just choose to be predominantly muslim. Compulsion is purely societal and not violent.

Look it uo yourself. It's pretty fucked up how people don't realize that places like this even exist when this country has the biggest muslim population in the world.

>>17585324
>>17585431
>>17585623
>>17588104
I am a turist to this board but, where are the sources of these claims?

>>17586228
come now, walk in the light of christ

>>17586894
I've noticed it irl too. Atheists are getting more cynical and depressed, while those that haven't locked themselves into such positions for good are looking for spirituality.

>>17589119
It's wrong obviously. Zoomers are more religious than Millennials. Atheism is dead.

>>17589147
Imagine pulling those jeans down, eating her ass and then taking her from behind while she is still in the middle of breastfeeding. Just think of the sweet degenerate pleasure she would experience from having her nipples stimulated by none other than her own child while she's in the middle of getting railed. God, imagine doing it to her enough times to the point where the act of breastfeeding itself fills her with lust that can only be satiated with your cock.

Most people do not care about religion one way or the other, and that is the truth. It’s just a cultural symbol for them whether they’re aware of this and willing to admit it or not.

>>17589345
Pretty much. No matter how much all the tradcaths kick and scream, they will be permanently stuck being a minority, not unlike vegans, as long as their retarded beliefs go against convenience. So pretty much forever.

what do you mean? it so utterly annihilated it's enemies, so that only thing that was left was to dissolve

>>17585279
it was just a lefty trend like BLM. it's gonna end eventually
good thing, as an atheist i hate faggot who base their personality on that and specially those who believe in ohter delusions like the horoscope and jsut say they are atheists for the trend.
also this>>17585324 at least people are not believing in shit
>>17585388
>4chan represents average people

>>17589210
wow. it turns out you are full of shit. what a surprise
https://www.barna.com/research/atheism-doubles-among-generation-z/

>>17589239
you need jesus

>>17586879
>Only larpers left alive

>>17585279
i wonder why

>>17590986
Every single tradcath on 4chan is a larper. A god-fearing person who truly believes that religion is the source of morals will not browse this hate and porn-circlejerk shithole.
The only reason they even pretend to be tradcath is that they spent years jerking off their hateboners to leftist retardation and feel a tribal need to go for the diametrically opposite.

Even the assholes at Westborro Baptist Church aren't dense and hateful.

>>17586641
please just go on a shooting spree to "liberate the proletariat" already, your constant larping is getting annoying.

>>17585312
>>17585413
>>17585566
>>17586959
>>17587930

greetings fellow peasants, t. the butt kings

>>17589847
>some garbage marxist website
Stats say otherwise
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/2isqp28jmv/YouGov%20-%20Christianity%20study.pdf

>>17585424
/pol/ ?why aren’t they either pro christcuck or pro neopagan germanic (contradictory ik)

>>17585279
They became trannies and now follow the doctrine of trannism.

>>17586641
The revolution will never happen

>>17585279
Christians breed, Fedora Tippers don't, therefore the future belongs to the jesus people.

>>17592026
Even more so to the mohammedans

>>17592026
Christians breed and then proceed to turn their own children into atheists because christcuckery fails to provide them with anything but wasted weekends at the church and long lectures on why they should not enjoy the things all of their friends do.

>>17592109
Sounds like an american thing desu.

>>17587935
You're 16. Maybe 17 If I'm being liberal. Get the fuck off this board.

>>17592150
Anon, the fact that you're a braindead retard who got radicalized by SJW compilations and Jordan Peterson in your 20s doesn't mean that everyone who is above your sad attempts at contrarianism is younger than you.

>>17585279
Because atheism is nihilism, and after the initial dopamine hits you get from feeling special about what you don't believe in and don't know and epicly BTFOing all the dumb theists, you are left with the nothingness of the Abyss. You can either kill yourself from the misery of believing you're a sack of flesh in a random material universe or keep to FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE and pretend that progress will ever rid you of the void in your soul. Or you can see the light of god and find your way to him again.

>>17592264
Atheism does not equal nihilism. You can not believe in god while also believing that man has purpose.

>>17585424
New atheism split into Woke atheists who still criticize Christianity but not Islam, and altright atheists who started saying things like 'Christianity might not be true but it's a good cultural defense against Islam'.

>>17585454
I was thinking about this yesterday. Even if New Atheism just turned into identitarian progressivism, that still doesn't answer all the questions. For one, the Atheists vs. Christians debates had nowhere near the same sway on the general public, they never had real influence on the outside world or what was produced in media or taught on college campuses. I feel the similarities but identity politics has a totally different force, it's been really powerful. I missed the heyday of internet religious arguments though so perhaps it felt extremely big then too, and the internet just wasn't influential enough/still too nerdy for it to have any effect on the world. Anyway, it's a good reflection of how society was at the time. Religion really does feel like it plays less of a role in things now, even in America.

>>17592264
>after the initial dopamine hits you get from feeling special about what you don't believe
That dopamine is never going to run out with people like you spewing baseless assumptions like the one you just posted.

>>17585700
>try arguing for something that only the laughing stock of christianity ever believed

>>17592094
?

>>17592309
I agree, people probably overestimate the influences of people like Dawkins on the fact that religion keeps dwindling. Still, no matter how overestimated those numbers could be, the nu-christian circlejerk you can witness on this platform is clearly many times smaller than even that.

If anything all the faggots spamming up this board with their tradcath nonsense are just WBC 2.0 in the making. Not only are they small as a group, but almost all of them also just happen to be unapologetically antisemitic, hateful towards trans and gay people and generally racist. All of that will be eventually used against them and they won't be able to claim plausible deniability the same way people labeled as nazis in recent years could. It's kind of a miracle that journalists didn't catch up yet.

I am really curious to see what will happen when the churches will begin openly denouncing them under pressure.

Something cannot come from nothing. Not without God. Eventually every truly intelligent man realizes this.

>>17592495
Being against progressive ideas is not going to be harmful to people in the super long term. Those ideas only exist because universities and entities adjacent to them keep trying to push it as the next bourgeois pet project. They have no hold and no sway amongst the vast majority of people, especially in the lower economic levels of society. Once either the money dries up or they find something else to occupy their time, they will disappear.

>>17585279
It was just a fad. A reaction to evangelical influence in government.

It was also a retarded way of explaining why the end of history didn't come to pass.

>>17592560
Yeah. And when it happens all of the people who got radicalized through nothing but their hate towards the cancer of modern progressivism will look even more insane.

>>17586598
>I grew older, understand the purpose and the need to eradicate it.
have you ever said anything intelligent in your life butterfly faggot? honest question
you're such a pest, a meaningless worm rearing its worthless self in every single one of these threads, and I am not religious btw

>>17588584
>diverse opinions
>calls christians "christcucks"
I see you care a lot about "diverse opinons"
but sure, those rabid christian fanatics are oppressing you and your ilk by taking over this board, whatever shall you do, you poor soul

>>17585279
Hitchens died

>>17585674
ayy

>>17585279
Hollow criticism, even hollower solutions.

>>17592954
There is a lot of positive that could be said about Christianity or religion in general. There is also a myriad of topics about Christianity that could be shared between believers and nonbelievers without ever turning into an argument about whether one or another is wrong. We could and used to have fun shitposting about branches of Christianity pro- or anti-Christianity philosophers and such.

But this same tired low IQ evangelical garbage about all atheists being amoral sociopaths, jerking off being evil because Rome has fallen, the theory of evolution being wrong because you feel like it's wrong, etc; all of which could be and has been dismantled countless times by a bunch of fucking fedoras, is not it.

>>17592264
Let me guess, you think "life is what you make of it" = "life has no meaning"?

Sneed

>>17592264
atheism is the lack for faith in a supernatural being. nihilism is "the doctrine that nothing actually exists or that existence or values are meaningless"
I keep shouting to you "walls" that a god is not way a prerequisite for values to exist. Your type of "logic" doesn't make any sense at all.

>>17591334
this, every "christian" on this site is a larper

>>17591334
THIS. Imagine proselytizing on fucking 4chan of all websites

>>17592518
Going from belief in a prime mover to a belief in a personal God is a massive fucking leap and not necessary at all

>>17585418
Cute. Dead eyes, though.

>>17585279
Mods delete this retarded thread.

>>17585312
Based Dp poster

>>17585279
it has the outward appearance of failure while being massively successful in truth.

>>17585410
Probably more like >apolitical > edgy libertarian > conservative > nazi > occultist > tradcath > muslim

>>17594359
Cool hypothesis.
But the problem is that those people are extremely tribalistic and converting to Islam would go against those instincts since most muslims are brown, have a distinctly different culture and belong to a religion not shared by their ancestors.

>>17594438
They convert to Islam after going from Evola to Guenon.

>>17592264
I am an atheist and a nihilist. I can assure you that reality is the greatest beauty and most magical thing that could exist. Sacks of flesh are the most beautifully complex naturally-created things.

You are using religion to feel good because you hate existence, are disgusted with sacks of flesh, and do not see the inherent magic of this reality. This is why we must do away with religion. I feel bad for you if you believe in a fictional better world to escape to when you leave this world you see as ugly and low. This universe is not ugly, not low, it is of endless beauty and magnificence, and a god sitting on a throne giving out commandments would only lessen it.

Why should we want a purpose to this life? Wouldn't that only shackle us? We should take pleasure in simply being a part of this grand display. Take the Oshopill.

>>17585782
The birth rate decrease of a culture that is not in danger of replacement does not make it any "less fit"

>>17585700
>Try standing up doing a history lecture and argue for revisionist history

>>17594515
Extremely redpilled

>>17593651
Your mistake is anthropomorphizing God. Doesn’t refute the point.

>>17586298
I'm a tourist but every time I come here to get book recs some fag always comes and says ¨The Bible¨ so yeah
>>17593208
sneed

>>17585312
God this brought me back to being an edgy teenager. Thanks anon!