/lit/ - Literature

The way Christians describe this is that feeling abandoned by God was the last-part of his sufferings. He wasn't actually abandoned, hence his resurrections.

>>17569929
1. He was forsaken in our place.
2. He was quoting Psalms

>>17569929
hmm no.
That was just the last of the doubts dying.
Did you miss the whole part in the garden of Gethsemane about Jesus having human doubts?
Oh, I get it, you're just shitposting.
Sage.

>>17569929
>be as virtuous as one can be
>still suffer
you think it won't happen to you?

It’s also the best proof that he wasn’t God. He couldn’t keep up the LARP any longer when the kikes nailed him to the cross

>>17569929
>he actually finds that instead he will just painfully suffer to death without any divine help
The cross was looming over Christ ever since the beginning of time, and certainly throughout the entirety of the gospels, and of course he was aware.
>nor having brought any apparent justice or order to the world
You, like the people then, expected and continue to expect a political savior who will bring forth social reform. Christ saved us not from death, and he saved us because he died for us.
>in essence a life of righteousness, had just lead to a meaningless and painful death
He was here to die for us, his teachings were not the reason for his coming.

It's actually funny how the people who reject Christ in the bible are just like people nowadays. Not a surprise since man is man.

>>17570003
>bro, trust me

>>17570003
>Christ saved us not from death
Christ saved us from death
oops

>>17570016
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Christ-Fulton-J-Sheen/dp/0385132204/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=life+of+christ&qid=1613576135&sr=8-1

Here's my source. Now you're on the spot, go read it and tell me where Bishop Sheen and the Catholic church went wrong in your eyes.

>jesus is God
>calls out to himself
>asks himself why he has forsaken himself

lol how does anyone believe this dumb fable

So it's okay to doubt God if even Jesus did

>>17569929
>not realizing that this is an impersonation of the jews who were really forsaken by their god because he was overthrown

>>17570049
>>17569938
These mental gymnastics are sad.

>>17569976
>just ignore John 1 bro

>>17570016
Luke 18:31-43

Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time
>He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

>>17570027
It’s pretty clear that some Jewish dude LARPed around as a preacher or a messiah at most, made some people angry, was nailed to a cross and then starting crying for Yahweh while nailed up there. A bunch of Jews thought this was super profound for whatever reason and then 2000 years later brainlets like you are trying to convince me of this absurd idea that this man was God, that he was simultaneously one thing and three things, that he just HAD to die to save people from the sins and situation he himself created, etc. Fuck off, Jew-worshiper

>>17570057
>I read some translation of a translation of a translation 2000 years after the fact and I know better than everyone back then and the experts now.

itt: why private interpretation is to be avoided

>>17570077
>WOW LOOK THE JEWS WHO WROTE THESE BOOKS DECADES AFTER JESUS DIED PREDICT THINGS THAT HAPPENED DECADES AFTER JESUS DIED

>>17570078
>It’s pretty clear
Clearly it isn't. What you have is a very low tier take that you formulated from a variety of experiences in modernity and a few /pol/ posts. No actual research was done ,and you aren't honest. Your opinion is worthless because you have no credibility and it is not an argument that you provide but merely a claim. At least I gave you source material.

>>17570095
Modern Jews are literally the people who rejected Christ, which is why they aren't Christians. Jesus constantly calls them out in the gospels.

>>17570095
I was responding to the denial that Jesus knew he was going to die.

It's probably one of the only historical parts of the Jesus myth. the charade was over and he realised he was dying in vain.

obviously the editors didnt like that ending so they forced them to bolt on some guff about how he rose from the dead and had expected to be sacrifced.

>>17570080
>this is why you should never let your dog remove the curtain around the wizard of oz

Mm'kay.

>>17570155
>trusting the authors who wrote decades later and believing that these were the real words of Jesus
Christian IQ, everyone.
>>17570148
Jews are Jews are Jews. You don’t magically become not a Jew just because you like a Jewish man nailed to an execution device and sprinkle some water on your head

>>17570165
If I recall correctly, only a few people supposedly witnessed his "resurrection," no? So you have a few ardent followers take his body out and put it elsewhere then make up some story about how he rose, and other tardfarms believe it.

He was reciting Psalm 22. It's not that hard to understand.

>>17570187
>Christian IQ, everyone.
You just refuted yourself. You trust this quote of Jesus: "why hast thou forsaken me," but you don't trust the others. You're cherry-picking at this point. Either you believe all of it or none of it.

>>17570174
>>17570187
No arguments to be found. Done casting pearls to pigs.

>>17570204
It’s clear there is a historical core to the Gospels which have been elaborated and fed certain narratives into them by their authors. I don’t know if Jesus said it or not, but it’s much more likely that he got a dose of reality in those final moments than anything mystical like you are alleging

>>17570212
>m-muh pearls!

>>17570238
Yeah okay dude. He wasn't just reciting Psalm 22 or anything like that.

>>17570262
He was giving the LARP one last bit of effort, but the truth was in the words

>>17570273
You are delusional. The sooner you admit this the closer you can come to God and truth.

>>17569929
This is the most retarded take on the whole thing. He knew the entire time that he was going to have to die idiot.

>>17569929
Read this>>17569944

...also, you have to bear in mind that many (if not all) of Christ's actions are purely for our benefit; there is therefore a performative aspect to some of them. Christ says as much in one of the Gospels (I forget which). He is not doing it for His own sake, but for those listening.

In this instance, as well as fulfilling the prophecy, I believe He is showing us that it is OK to question our suffering.

>>17569929
Besides the fact that he was quoting the Psalms, some great saints like St. Therese of Lisieux have talked about experiencing a period of test in where they felt suddenly deeply abandoned by God, until the point that they could consider committing suicide or become atheists. This demonic test is called "Dark Night of the Soul". God allows this intense despair to happen in order to improve their endurance and make them holier. Jesus could have experienced a similar thing while on the cross.

>>17571468
Christ in the garden contrasts day and night in terms of faith and speaks of how the night specifically brings along a lot of troubles that are unique to it.

>>17569929
>had just lead to a meaningless and painful death

Shhhh no one tell him how it ends

>>17570003
How did he save us? Nothing changed after his death

>>17570080
One can say the same about the Islamic claim about Isa.

>>17570187
>Jews are Jews are Jews
You just type like a jew.

>>17569929
>God's best mate
This is the weakest and most unpresentable description of Christ I think I have ever read. This has to be bait, there's no way you're this retarded. He wasn't just some dude that God liked, he was a fucking living and breathing energy of God. Secondly, his death wasn't meaningless, did you just read the passion and not bother with the ressurection. He literally goes into Hell, transcends time, liberates souls from damnation, and then comes back.

>>17569929
No idea if that is dogma but Jesus in order to experience the spectrum of human suffering had to experience unbelief. It's so central to our plight that if Christians are right about this figure then it could not have been left out.
Now consider what it means that this was written down. It's like the Buddha dying from diarrhea, it makes one think it actually happened since it's not something that would've been included in a fictional story of heroism.

>>17570078
>hasn't studied the bible


Acts 7:43 43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you[jews], and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

john 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

>>17571639
>He literally goes into Hell, transcends time, liberates souls from damnation, and then comes back.

Where is this? I would like to read it.

>>17571800
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

>>17569929
>Is this the most absurdist part of the gospel?
No —it is one of the most sensible parts; if you were heroically impulsive you would know this.

>>17569938
I thought Jesus was God? How can God be abandoned by himself?

>>17572083
He lost faith in himself for a while there. Don't you lose it sometimes too anon-kun?

>>17572083
The creator of everything that is possible and not possible didn't give us that information so we have to include it in the mysteries.

>>17572083
Paul fags said Jesus was god
Paul fags are wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jniKWRg09ks

>>17572083
Two natures in Christ: human and divine.

>>17569929
thats actually sounds really sad ngl. very relatable too. it's too bad he is god and on god's side. no one who has known the suffering of being a mortal should side with god. it makes no sense at all.

>>17572208
Fucking Heritic scum burn Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee reeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! Die, Die, Die!!!!!!!!! Burn, Burn!1!!!!1

>>17572208
>in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God
>and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us

>>17571577
Satisfaction theory of atonement

>>17570248
Your grandchildren (if you ever have ones lol) will be brown and Christian and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

>>17572083
the first person of the trinity abandoning the second.

>>17569929
>in essence a life of righteousness, had just lead to a meaningless and painful death

it's baffling to me that anyone could actually say this. regardless of your religious views, it's hard to think of a single death that was more meaningful than Christ's.

>>17572083
"i thought the king was the government how can the government be abandonded by hiself"/

>thread isn't about scriptural relation to absurdist philosophy

>quotes psalms
How does this change anything about what op wrote? God is not saying those words?

>>17572828
Because op's statement assumes that Jesus' human nature felt that God had abandoned him. In Psalm 22 it does not say God abandons humanity. It's just context denial at this point.

>For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one;
>he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

>>17572894
But those are the words of men questioning god and Jesus is meant to be god so why would he quote that

>>17572930
Psalm 22 is not questioning God. It is glorifying his mercy and perpetual help towards man.

>But, this is not the only reason why Jesus has chosen this psalm. In its concluding verses, the righteous man, though he suffers so greatly, has his hope firmly rooted in the Lord. He praises the Lord and knows without a doubt that the Lord will deliver him:
>"The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the Lord!"

>>17569929
It wasn't meaningless. He was resurrected.

>>17572686
Retarded. God experienced the death of men. The experience is so grim it instantly removes all sin. The last second, when you realize you are all alone and nothing will help you now. Thats all you are and never anything more. But how can a god experience that? Simple as turning human.

>>17569929
the part of the gospels that make it hard to believe are not the absurdities of Jesus asking his father why he was forsaken, but the things that are erratic and contradictory like Jesus riding into town on a donkey and a colt (clearly written in later by somebody with a poor understanding of Old Testament language to make it seem like Christ fit this prophecy), and Luke giving a historical account of when Christ was born that doesn't correspond with the documented timeline of Roman government.

>>17570187
don't shitpost on /lit/ you retard

>>17571577
You haven't reached the end, of the end, of your state of awareness/spirit

Lets face it guys. A God that sends people to eternal heaven/hell wouldn't have come up with such a stupid and unbelievable system. Ironically the Bible would have been more coherent if it had proposed a doctrine of reincarnation.

>>17572140
>He lost faith in himself for a while there.
That is an absurd statement —Jesus never lost faith, but, rather, the ultimate suffering that he experienced during his passion ruptured his wellness in God.

Faith subsists beyond circumstantial wellness, in the well of one's being.

He's quoting the first part of a Psalm, retards.

Religion is impossible without endless mental gymnastics and coping.

>>17569976
he litteraly predicted what would have happened to him continuously.
kike.

>>17572497
Why are Paulians always like this?

>>17569944
Can you explain this a little more in depth. I’ve been feeling abandoned/foresaken as of late.

>>17574757
You could argue self fulfilling prophecy. Why the slur?

Just curious

>>17570057
>I get to make up my own headcanon